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On December 19 2014 11:27 rsoultin wrote:
- RNG reads more like a joke/trolling...so not sure of the significance here, unless it's that he happened to pick KSC from it
That's how I read it, actually. He even acknowledged it was a joke, it was how he got to it (the division mechanics) to pick Kelsier and more importantly the followup (the Starcraft unvote) and then the sheeping. Just that entire process.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On December 19 2014 11:44 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 11:27 rsoultin wrote:
- RNG reads more like a joke/trolling...so not sure of the significance here, unless it's that he happened to pick KSC from it That's how I read it, actually. He even acknowledged it was a joke, it was how he got to it (the division mechanics) to pick Kelsier and more importantly the followup (the Starcraft unvote) and then the sheeping. Just that entire process.
Aka entirely contentless for an entire day while cases were being made.
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On December 19 2014 11:37 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 11:18 sicklucker wrote:
Guys can you just sheep me here Im confident I have this figured out. When you realize HF is mafia and gb is town for the information hes brought against him this game is actually winnable. If you guys keep running around like chickens with no heads this game becomes unwinnable.
Rputin I ignore your case because I know gb is town. I can only really prove this when hf flips mafia. Can you explain why mine, froggys, and gb's case doesint tell you hf is mafia? You keep using the same excuse "its present related". But the facts are mafia wont claim a present unless they are sure it cant be counter claimed. This means hf is 100% lieing about his already sketchy claim.
Like how more obvious can this get? Im running out of posts and your completely ignoring the facts. If your town you need to realize the truth because when hf flips mafia were going to have to lynch you as of now and that might lose us this game. If I had a present I wouldn't counter-claim, because I'd want to use what was in it without getting shot or RBd. If I had a present I wouldn't really be interested in drawing attention to myself in relation to presents at all. Assuming mafia doesn't have all of them, it's not the worst way to find out where the presents are at and remove that possible threat. So no, I don't agree with your point. Sorry. And you threatening to lynch me after HF (who I believe is town anyway, or at least more likely to be town than a few in this thread) isn't going to sway me. I'm not acting scummy and I'm not afraid of being lynched. -shrugs- I'm also not much of a sheep. As soon as someone starts throwing around the 100% mafia stuff I tend to tune out because the only possible way to know that for sure is if you're santa and have a blue check or you're scum, in which case I'd be dumb to listen to you anyway. Also, apologies for the snark. I wrote that before seeing your response. The "knowing GB is town" thing is a BS answer though. How can you possibly know that, SL? You do realize you've been more or less parroting him all game?
No one would counter claim the present untill after they use it , but the point is they would counter claim it eventually so thats bs. And no one has used one . vt's would not pass a present on thats what hf is claiming . Your not as good as you think you are I sheeped in my first games. To me I feel like you just want to be right rather then seeing the truth. The fact is my case against hf is better then your case against gb. I can explain why hf is mafia in like 1 line. Your long post is all circumstantial and gb can play pretty bad as town.
Im 99% sure hf is scum. How sure are you on gb?
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On December 19 2014 11:27 rsoultin wrote:
I'm going to stop asking SL questions at this point, since he prefers not to answer them.
I've been looking at HFs case, too. There are some issues with it, unfortunately. I'm not saying it's a shit case, cause it's not, but it's certainly not open and shut.
- RNG reads more like a joke/trolling...so not sure of the significance here, unless it's that he happened to pick KSC from it
- while I agree that his Santa posts were mostly summary and repeat analysis, there still was some analysis, which HF is downplaying...the remark on the list, for instance, specifically referenced froggy's placement; it wasn't just a list
- the point on slam and bunnies both spewing posts...slam doesn't seem to be a big content poster anyway. ninjabunnies I haven't really played with, but if she doesn't play like slam, then comparing the two isn't necessary and isn't really a double-standard
- i'm also not really seeing the issue with Templar agreeing with the case against HF except HF doesn't like it...since the post he agreed with was speaking specifically to how HF came to read bunnies, not the fact that he scumread her
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That said, though I'm finding HFs actual analysis a little dodgy, there's not a ton of original content in Templar's filter apart from the odd comment/question here or there. Some of the questions do seem to be in the interest of exposing logic pitfalls and progressing the thread...but that's not hard to fake.
As for the meta...that's borderline, too. Having reads on everyone and posting thoughts on every player is actually the same thing. The biggest difference is between lurking and posting a lot...though really I'm not sure why Templar is bringing up his meta at all if it's not solidly indicative of anything. That alone is scummy.
Tube is also a very easy scumread to latch onto, especially with the "scum slip" that had the whole thread jumping down his throat. An easy mislynch if he's town. So I can see the argument there. And if Templar, Rit and KSC (ironically the only bolded ones in his first lynch) are all scum, and HF isn't scum, it's got to be better for mafia to have a run-off between two towns over one between a scum and a town or two scums. Apart from that, I don't see much reason to pressure Tube during that vote. Better to save it for later.
All-in-all...Templar could be scum, but I wouldn't call him my top scumread.
You can't say that some analysis is the same as lots. Does he even push this point? No. That's what the meta comparison is for, I don't know why you mentioned the meta being the difference between posting a lot or lurking when his mafia game had more pages than his town one but the meta i pointed out was about content not posting amount. A little amount of content and no insights is the mafia meta. Just because he has 1 post that is copied from what everyone else has already written is the opposite of insightful.
His read is specifically about whether a person was wasting posts or not and he didn't even check to see if she normally does that which means he made a conclusion based on only this games facts. Slam spamming in a post restricted game about nonsense is the same reason he scum read bunnies. It literally doesn't matter in that case because if slam can do it as null then it's not alignment indicative for a player he doesn't have a meta on.
You say there's nothing wrong with him agreeing with the gb case too which is actually bad. Gb says bunnies was never scummy and that i had absolutely no reason to be on her. He also talks about me "scum reading" people. Templar VOTED FOR BUNNIES. If it was a "good case" that means the 10 people that sheeped me also had no good reasons to be on her. 10 people can't be mafia and he voted for her too. He's essentially agreeing that being on the bunnies wagon is a mafia thing to do when it's impossible to be solely a mafia thing to do. He then also doesn't know where i posted the scum read on wagon thing, doesn't check it out and I'm sure someone corrected gb on it (probably you iirc) but he never changed the "good case, sheep" read ever.
To do the above and then just focus on someone that he can't get lynched, that he admitted he was wasting his time on, instead of finding out who to lynch is outright scummy.
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I haven't posted anything because I'm trying to reevaluate. It's pretty evident that everything in this game is WIFOM in one way or the other.
I still want to vote Holyflare for fairly simple reasons. I still find it exceptionally hard to believe that KSC and Ritoky would rather let KSC die than easily jump on HF. Sick or not, it's far better to lynch a town and then have the rest of us realize that KSC is 100% mafia and have him die at the next lynching. I also doubt anyone was town reading Templar, so HF's case was probably the easiest case to make. I'm also fairly certain that we won't stop arguing about HF till he lynches or the game ends. He's a huge distraction.
I'm questioning my vote on HF because I think Rsoutlin's case on GB is very well thought out and logical. Also, Sicklucker is pushing hard for it too, and I still scumread him for the same reasons (which I'm WIFOMing myself about).
I was very wrong on Ritoky, and Froggy so it's pretty easy to see my world is incorrect. Now, I'm trying to figure out if it's all garbage or just some of it.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
^ another person arguing the point that i proved was terrible for mafia to do -.-
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
You literally can't say I'm a huge distraction when only 2 bad people are talking about me being mafia and the other one you agree has a good chance of being mafia based on rsoul case.
That doesn't make any sense in the slightest. Read my post about ritoky that I've pasted about 8 times and then tell me again how great it is to trade 1 town for 2 mafia instead of 1 mafia and getting great town credit.
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You've been a leading wagon for 3 days now, how is that not a distraction?
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Canada11355 Posts
TL was down for so long I missed lurking.
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HF too SVENGALI
I switched to templar. Active early lurking late comes only in self defense
Qed
Yes
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Mafia might be dividing on the gb/templar vote to switch and save hf her. Like this is a horrible idea why cant we just lynch hf? Like the templar was a great lynch for me before but not so much since hf,oats and ff are the first 3 votes and pushing this.
Vivax/ slam why are you sheeping your scum reads wtf?
God I wanted to sleep in but I dont trust you guy.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Unlike you, they know when there's a good case for a person to be mafia and that I'm most likely town. Quite literally everything you have stated has been explained away, has been countered and has been disproved yet every single time you come back into the thread you come up with a new conspiracy theory on how i'm mafia based on wifom presents, wifom mafia switching when it's not beneficial to them, wifom nk's. None of your play at all has been on actual analysis of what is going on in this game and it's quite sad really
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
If you feel like you have a great case for me to be mafia right now, post it so I can disprove every single piece of "evidence" you think you have and prove that there is in fact the other alternative situation where I'm town
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
It would be nice to have an actual discussion instead of you barking fallacies all over the thread and pushing terrible points
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Im not too interested in wasting my posts battling you im saving them to convince others close to vote. Ya templars probably scum. But yes you would bus him, this templar thing didnt start until it was very clear you were getting out voted over gb. Then you started this train.
You are claiming a vt who decided not to open a present and help town win.
Theres no wifmo in my case
1. Any vt ever would open this present. Your not a power role theres no reason for you not to take the 1/3 risk to become one its literally the only correct play. You also claim your on vacation and you shouldnt be playing mafia. Another reason you would totally take this risk for town. Your lieing
2. Ritoky claims kp present. He would only ever do this if hes sure he cant be counter claimed. This means mafia has the two remaining presents because we all know I sent one to dandred and he died because of it or with it. This again means your lieing because
3. Ritoky and ksc could kill you over ksc. They choose not to.
4. Bats, obiwan, tref, froggy All thought you were mafia. They are dead
5. We ask you who we sent the present too before ff. You ignore and then refuse to tell us. The reason for this is simple its in mafias hands. If you name a town they will deny it and you will be confirmed mafia. If you ask a mafia to help you out they will be guilty by association therefor it is your only play as mafia.
Like theres more thats just off the top of my head. I would quit this forum if im wrong here. Im that sure.
Vote hf not who he wants you to vote
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
It doesn't Count
GlowingBear (4): LightningStrike, rsoultin, Alakaslam, LightningStrike, Half the Sky, Xatalos
Holyflare (5): sicklucker, LightningStrike, liancourt, Vivax, Alakaslam, The_Templar, GlowingBear, Tubesock
The_Templar (5): Holyflare, Fecalfeast, Oatsmaster, Vivax, Alakaslam
Currently Holyflare is set to be lynched. 12h24m until deadline.
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On December 19 2014 18:36 sicklucker wrote:
Mafia might be dividing on the gb/templar vote to switch and save hf her. Like this is a horrible idea why cant we just lynch hf? Like the templar was a great lynch for me before but not so much since hf,oats and ff are the first 3 votes and pushing this.
Vivax/ slam why are you sheeping your scum reads wtf?
God I wanted to sleep in but I dont trust you guy.
I'm just doing this so HF's gf can yell some more at him.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On December 19 2014 19:25 sicklucker wrote:
Im not too interested in wasting my posts battling you im saving them to convince others close to vote. Ya templars probably scum. But yes you would bus him, this templar thing didnt start until it was very clear you were getting out voted over gb. Then you started this train.
You are claiming a vt who decided not to open a present and help town win.
Theres no wifmo in my case
1. Any vt ever would open this present. Your not a power role theres no reason for you not to take the 1/3 risk to become one its literally the only correct play. You also claim your on vacation and you shouldnt be playing mafia. Another reason you would totally take this risk for town. Your lieing
2. Ritoky claims kp present. He would only ever do this if hes sure he cant be counter claimed. This means mafia has the two remaining presents because we all know I sent one to dandred and he died because of it or with it. This again means your lieing because
3. Ritoky and ksc could kill you over ksc. They choose not to.
4. Bats, obiwan, tref, froggy All thought you were mafia. They are dead
5. We ask you who we sent the present too before ff. You ignore and then refuse to tell us. The reason for this is simple its in mafias hands. If you name a town they will deny it and you will be confirmed mafia. If you ask a mafia to help you out they will be guilty by association therefor it is your only play as mafia.
Like theres more thats just off the top of my head. I would quit this forum if im wrong here. Im that sure.
Vote hf not who he wants you to vote
That's not true at all I made a case on templar YESTERDAY and then ritoky claimed mafia so I made a more convincing one today you're so full of crap!
1. I am not just any vt, I enjoy playing this game and my ego is far too large to give a shit about powers when all I had to do was try and solve the game. You can literally just ask anyone on this site that I would never risk dying over trying to prove how good I am at this game, I care far too much about being right than if I get a kp or check or not.
2. Ritoky claimed opening a present BEFORE YOU EVEN MENTIONED DAMDRED AT ALL. Like literally this is the most bull shit post of all, they can't POSSIBLY have known that damd had a present or not so your point is complete crap! Not to mention if I was mafia and we had all the presents I would
a) never let him claim a present ever???
b) hold onto the presents and not claim them at all and use them to kill people/find red roles!?
Even if mafia had all the presents fecalfeast who i tried to lynch mind you (and ritoky i tried to get nk'd??? you think im bussing literally every single mafia ever apparently) received the present which means you either think he is mafia which would again be retarded to do because now HE has passed on his present to someone else so gives another towny a chance to kill mafia for no reason???
3. No no no no no. Please READ THIS POST PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE On December 16 2014 08:55 Holyflare wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 16 2014 08:45 batsnacks wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2014 08:44 Holyflare wrote:On December 16 2014 08:41 batsnacks wrote:On December 16 2014 08:38 Holyflare wrote:On December 16 2014 08:33 batsnacks wrote:On December 16 2014 08:28 Holyflare wrote:On December 16 2014 08:22 batsnacks wrote:On December 16 2014 08:12 Holyflare wrote:On December 16 2014 08:06 batsnacks wrote:On December 16 2014 08:01 Holyflare wrote:
[quote]
Ritoky said he flat out agreed on the case on kelsier when the votes were piling up on him. He went onto gb's case and said he didn't really agree with a lot of the points, I'm more of a ? Than kelsier and that the people on my wagon are suspicious.
He literally couldn't do anything else BUT bus kelsier at this point and it wasn't a point at which the votes were 8-7 and switching could save kelsier. It was much before.
Yeah he did describe trfel's kelsier case as a "slam dunk" which if he's mafia is a very strange decision considering your and his interaction at the start of the day. He had every reason to vote you... but didn't. Which... I think that actually makes you look way worse. Like I said before given the choice between afk/hospital KSC and not afk/hospital HF, the choice is obvious. I would bus kelsier 10/10 times if that case was made and he was afk. I imagine most people would too. It doesn't matter if i look worse or not. It doesn't change my alignment. Judge me on what I do and not what yoi think mafia ritoky would be thinking at that random point in time. If you think I'm mafia because I'm playing badly and whatever then fine, you're wrong but i won't hate you for it, I'm playing pretty damn suboptimally but the fact of the matter is i called out this fucker yesterday, pushed him non-stop got berated by ALL OF YOU saying it doesn't make ritoky mafia and that we should let him live with a fucking present or whatever when actually I was right and it was by far the right play to just shoot him when i asked obi to n1. You were afk at the end of d2, when the case was made, so there wasn't an opportunity for you to bus him based on that case. And I'm not judging you based on what mafia ritoky would be thinking, I am judging you based on what mafia KSC and what mafia ritoky actually did. I don't think you're playing badly not sure why you'd even say that. I don't think anyone this game, aside from SL, has said you were playing badly and who cares if he thinks that anyway? and you pushing one of your scum buddies is not hard to believe, especially if you thought they were playing suboptimally, which, I think ritoky was playing sub-optimally with all his "presents" stuff as it got him killed. I'm not talking about what i would do. I implied that if i was mafia and saw that case then i would think my team mate would die 100% of the time, especially as loads of people switched at the time and then just bus him. Gb comes along and says rah rah my case is awesome but at that point people had already pointed out the multiple holes in his case and ritoky was one of them and couldn't join the anti mafia train. I am playing badly if I'm even up for consideration of being lynched. Let's just ignore everything but two facts for the purposes of this post: KSC, who was confirmed mafia, did not switch his vote to you despite being in the thread and posting at eod d2. ritoky, who I think is pretty obviously mafia, also did not switch his vote to you despite scum reading you for half the day. None of that has anything to do with how well you played. Both of those things make you scummy. So no, I don't think you're playing badly if you're a probable lynch target. I definitely never said you were playing badly. I never meant to imply it. It's not part of my message. Ritoky calls me a ? And he doesn't like ppl on my wagon before it even got that close so if he switches he outs himself as mafia when kelsier gets lynched today because i flipped town. Then kelsier dies AND ritoky dies. Or Bus team mate dying and get sweet sweet town cred. I think it's pretty obvious. ritoky is dying because of a very simple mistake. If I wasn't paying very careful attention to the rules, today would have looked a lot different. I probably would not have kept my vote on ritoky if I didn't -know- he lied. Yes because he fucking picked option 2??? That's literally exactly what I'm saying here as reasons for not switching. This game would look much more different if 2 people switched to me RIGHT at deadline after calling me town all game and also saying his scummy people were on my wagon and I was a? Compared to a slam dunk. That's like giving yourself away Are you trying to say that ritoky was calling you town all game? I'm not like patronizing or whatever but is that actually what you're saying? Please just learn to read. Ritoky bobbing along and sees a case that will get his team mate lynched like 90% of the time. Ritoky prepares to bus and says the case is a slam dunk. Ritoky sees people start to critique gb's case at this point in time saying it's not very good etc etc and sees that 3 people he has pushed as mafia that day are on that wagon, he sees that and prepares to give reasons why he'd not be on a town lynch aka avoiding suspicion. If he started to jump on MY wagon and i flipped town the people would look at the voters on me and instantly see that he jumped on a wagon with all his scum reads and ignored all the critiques of gb's case while calling out kelsier as mafia. That is so obviously scummy that he would try to avoid that at all costs. Especially as the vote between me and kelsier wasn't even close until near the deadline. So he leaves his options open. He doesn't actually call me town he critiques gbs case and leaves it open ended so he can still scum read me at a later date when he wouldn't draw as much suspicion to himself because everyone is just lynching me. If he did switch last minute as soon as i flipped town people would be all over a kelsier wagon today and he'd flip scum and ritoky would look absolutely terrible for switching off someone like kelsier onto town me after saying kelsier was a slam dunk. You keep thinking like the votes were always 8-7 when they weren't at all. and tell me how it is wrong in the slightest. Trading 2 mafia for one town who they don't even know if they are a power role after scum reading everyone on my wagon would be absolutely fucking terrible trade. Trading one mafia for infinite town cred is so much better.
4. Bats used similar terrible arguments to you, obi was quite clearly killed for being the VIGILANTE, froggy didn't scum read me at all and the argument that "oh he made this post so he must have been scum reading hf" is complete bs because he was speculating and wasn't actually scum reading me and wanted to lynch GB over me. He would also have been the perfect mislynch candidate for doing absolutely nothing all game so why on earth would I ever kill him???
5. Where is the scenario where I call out the town that helped me and you still lynch me anyway? Oh yes, never thought about that did you! Like you literally say if I call out a name then i'm mafia and he's mafia by association but do not account for me being town. I gave my reason for not saying it. It's effectively a green check on someone and I don't want to reveal it.
I don't want you to quit because you are wrong. I do recommend going back to newbie games and getting coached on what makes people mafia and town though because none of your arguments have any kind of balance of logic and you never try and see the town side of things. Not to mention you haven't even commented on anything I've done that makes me mafia but instead of what other people have done.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On December 19 2014 19:42 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 18:36 sicklucker wrote:
Mafia might be dividing on the gb/templar vote to switch and save hf her. Like this is a horrible idea why cant we just lynch hf? Like the templar was a great lynch for me before but not so much since hf,oats and ff are the first 3 votes and pushing this.
Vivax/ slam why are you sheeping your scum reads wtf?
God I wanted to sleep in but I dont trust you guy. I'm just doing this so HF's gf can yell some more at him.
hahahaha fuck you -.-
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EPT
