TL Mafia LXIX: Carol Of The Bells - Page 202

On December 18 2014 22:57 Xatalos wrote:
This push on HF is pretty ridiculous. For one, HF didn't send the present to FF. In addition, nobody knows what each present contains (so there's no way scum would just "send a death present" or something.... I'm pretty sure they'd never send a present to town, I know I wouldn't). I'm also not entirely sure if it's necessary to avoid claiming names, but if he thinks so, I don't see any specific reason to do that for now. Let's just focus on actually playing Mafia rather than WIFOM action speculation.

I agree that Templar doesn't look good. He basically fits the pattern of a passive lurking scum that coasts by just barely avoiding becoming a lynch candidate... Following thread sentiment and throwing suspicion wherever it sticks. I could easily see him flipping scum.

Then again, there are many good arguments against GB as well. My gut feeling is that Templar would fit the classic scum playstyle better than GB, but GB has actively pushed scum agenda in the thread (role fishing, tunneling HF while not wanting to see him flip when it counts and not responding to counter-arguments, shifting reads for the weirdest reasons or no real reasons at all...). I think GB has a slightly better chance of flipping scum atm. Although both may well flip.

On December 18 2014 23:01 The_Templar wrote:

I can lurk and post a lot too, it's not hard... and those two metas are not different. I put out as many words as possible and talk about everyone but I don't put effort into the game.

On December 18 2014 22:58 Holyflare wrote:


not gonna comment on that giant wall i just posted...?

On December 18 2014 22:19 Holyflare wrote:
The_Templar



Now that we know kelsier flipped mafia, adding to this case are things like his initial rng located here:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/472628-tl-mafia-lxix-carol-of-the-bells?page=14#270

Now, people that post rng post it in order to stick with it either in a joking way and get discussion going or in a serious manner and stick to it like glue because they are retarded (bh). Templar, after rnging it in the most suspicious way possible (not doing the division mechanics in any pre-determined way) picks out kelsier. Now, in my opinion kelsier had done crazy suspicious things like calling people town based on no meta to counter the read and also calling bats town after bats read has been proven false (as I pointed out and trfel copied for his ultimate case to lynch mafia), yet, as I was pushing ninjabunnies at the time over that read templar returned with the fluffiest post of all time:



He never mentions ANY actual in game content about ANYONE other than they are lurkers/using posts badly:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/472628-tl-mafia-lxix-carol-of-the-bells?page=18#351

After literally a wealth of information and posts on the 3 subjects, kelsier/bunnies and froggy he instead decides to say absolutely nothing about any of them. Kelsier isn't mentioned for content at all, froggy is mentioned for being a hypocrite with no opinion on the matter and then he unvotes kelsier to sheep onto the ninjabunnies wagon not because she was contradictory, had her top scum read or w/e in her scum list bla bla. Only because she had spent some posts talking about clothes and used 12 of 80 posts on this. You could argue this was just at the start of the posting spree on bunnies but he returned later and had an equally useless post about his top scum read:


he STILL mentions none of the arguments but only scum reads her based on the fact she wasted some posts and posted a list????? His reads are SO surface level it's actually ridiculous. He's also busy pointing out people that are red claiming (is alakaslam a snowman? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/472628-tl-mafia-lxix-carol-of-the-bells?page=20#400 etc) His posts are specifically intended to look like contribution, by way of length, but are instead just multiple waves of nonsense that doesn't make anyone scum and he's refused to even take part in the discussions.

+ Show Spoiler +

his list is also pretty weird. He's like totally ignored everyone that is posting about the bunnies lynch apart from vivax (mainly me) yet posting similar things about her and has this weird list that comes out of nowhere. I'm also not ignoring the fact that he called bunnies scum for having a list of reads but then made this list, I'm also not going to ignore the fact that he calls bunnies mafia for wasting posts but doesn't even mention slams spamming slew of posts as indicative at all. Double standards are crazy and scummy. He's ignored everything that made kelsier scummy in this respect too and actually bolded him based on...? Nobody will ever know at this point because all he talked about in regards to kelsier is that he liked to write about starcraft.

The rest of his day 1 was a LOT of afking and then one of those "catch up with absolutely everything in the game" posts, yet this catch up specifically said absolutely nothing and made no conclusions whatsoever it was comment on post by post. He maintained that ninjabunnies WAS scummy and being pushed for good reasons yet, later in the game said I fell off halfway through day 1 and had no reason to be on bunnies:



He then AGREED with gb's case which stated that I had no proper reason to be on ninjabunnies because the points didn't make her mafia and that he DISAGREED with the other half of this case because he didn't know where I said any of the stuff gb was mentioning (which later turns out gb pulled out of his arse).



He is literally saying he agrees with gb's case that I didn't have very good reasons to be on bunnies after he was also on bunnies (with like 0 reasons???) Yet then when it starts to pick up some more, he starts saying he agrees with everything GB is saying on me. (I don't have to reiterate that following this case is ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE if you had actually read it and fact checked it because I have destroyed this case multiple times and GB HAS STILL NOT SAID ANYTHING ABOUT MY DEFENCE 3 DAYS LATER -.- -.- -.- -.- -.-).


It's also quite odd that if he sees that half the case is what he's guilty of and the other half doesn't make any sense and he was previously scum reading gb the night before that he'd just go full on sheep mode and say "great case".

He also has contradictory self meta whenever people call him out on it:



Here he says he would be crazy lurking normally as mafia and putting out reads. Yet, later, when pressure is building on him he changed it to:



being really active, posting all the time, with long drawn out posts of justification. He seems to have multiple metas thought out for all the occasions!

There's also these random tidbits on throwing accusations on vivax:




after saying absolutely nothing about him all game, sheeping his read on xatalos day 1 and vivax having the supposedly same reads as him because they both wanted to lynch me forever. It just looks like he's throwing suspicion everywhere he can.


Then you can just read the above quoted previous case I made in regards to him not giving a shit about who is lynched ever and instead pressuring tubesock EVEN THOUGH HE SAID HE COULDN'T GET HIM LYNCHED. How futile is that?



Where has this tube thing gone by the way?



Oh yeh, sheeping dat thread sentiment onto a town lynch again even though there's literally nothing he's said about me, spread suspicion onto vivax for after my flip and gb's case has been dissolved. There's no reason to be on me other than to blend and obtain another mislynch. (They only need 2 to win btw)

---

The Meta - ignore this section if you're a twat face

+ Show Spoiler [The_Templar] +

There is pretty little to go on in terms of meta in the database for templar, yet, just looking at the differences between the games, the amount of effort going into his mafia game is far more than here. Yet, so is his town game. This is congruent with what he is saying part way through the game at least. However, there's a difference in his posting styles. As town you see posts like these ones on page 4:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/465384-mission-mini-mafia?user=The_Templar&page=4

he seems like he's chasing up his reads, finding inconsistencies in people's posting and making sure people know it. It's not the matter of appearing to have a read on everyone, it looks like he's trying to get people to notice things that make people mafia.

Whereas in his mafia game here:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/450895-newbie-mini-mafia-lvi?user=The_Templar&page=4

You see things where he is posting reads like "i agree with this", "your posts are pretty null" and yes, you can say he has long posts as mafia too for instance here:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/450895-newbie-mini-mafia-lvi?page=20#382

that look the same but when you read the actual content he isn't finding the inconsistencies within the people's posts he's instead going very surface level and just saying that he disagrees with things and that this is how they'd act in video mafia etc etc. There's no real game logic involved.


Now when you tie his meta together with this game you can see the same things. I stated earlier that all his reads were "surface level", they weren't congruent with his original thoughts. He doesn't read things properly or even bother to CHECK whether there are inconsistencies at all. You can literally see this where he disagrees with half of gb's case on me (and agrees with something that he is far more guilty of) but never follows up to see whether there was an inconsistency with what gb was saying or not, especially as he scum read GB the last day and town read me. In fact other people were left to do this and he didn't give a shit and went after tube who is no longer anywhere in his reads at all.



##vote the_templar



more to come, eventually....

On December 14 2014 11:18 The_Templar wrote:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=23433611
If me talking about RNG was a reliable method to finding mafia, 23433611 mod 19 (remaining players in the game) is 18, meaning it would be Trfel.

On December 18 2014 23:21 LightningStrike wrote:

After KSC flipped scum I asked him for another rng thing he got Tfrel as seen in a earlier post by Templar

Now Tfrel turns out to be Santa who just came in late I think the case is good Templar but I think the case on Glowingbear is better atm.

On December 18 2014 23:22 rsoultin wrote:
Okay -_- So for those of you who don't like wall posts I will make my stance simple. Most of my points on GB could happen as either town or mafia. Town can flip their reads on a gut read (odd that the one it protects is scum, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything) to someone instead of focusing on genuinely scummy behavior. Town can digress into a "town only gives presents to town" WIFOM for no reason. Town can speculate on set-ups and base scum reads on that. Town can tunnel. All of these things together look worse...or at least make the player look like a bad town player...but there are a couple things that are scum-motivated that have no town motivation at all:

- Continually calling for mass claiming in an open set-up where scum has 2-3KSs.Or calling for certain individuals to claim (carolers, those who were roleblocked, vet)

- Attempting to take credit for a lynch when he did not catch the lie, and furthermore did not vote for the player being lynched, when he clearly had enough time to do so. His defense that he was trying to see who would jump onto a third train was never followed through on...he is back on his old soapbox today.

^ There are no reasons that these are town behaviors. Plain and simple. You can ignore everything else and write it off as a pisspoor town player, but there are no reasons for a town player to do these two things.

HF may well be scum, I don't know. But I haven't seen him do scummy things, and I have seen GB do a multitude. Again, if you want to base your lynch decisions on WIFOM, presents, and set-up speculation...be my guest. Don't be surprised if it comes back to bite you in the arse though.

On December 18 2014 22:43 Holyflare wrote:


Yes well you're as awful as ever or are mafia and I'm leaning the latter, quite heavily. If you aren't mafia then you'll be getting lynched next cycle after I flip and would have singlehandedly lost the entire game because you're too stubborn to realise you are wrong.

On December 18 2014 23:31 Xatalos wrote:


Yeah I agree. For both of those the scum motivation is strong and the town motivation is non-existent. I like Templar as scum too, though. But at least he hasn't actively pushed scum agenda.

##Vote GlowingBear

I like Templar as scum too, though. But at least he hasn't actively pushed scum agenda.