EPTwe livin
World Heavyweight Championship mafia III
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
we livin | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
omg the respect is real | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
its in constution | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 02 2014 06:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm counting on you playing at least as well as the last game I played with you. If you don't, you're gonna get policy'd. last game y'all played together i'm 90% sure he didn't post at all from the moment you subbed in to the end :o he was still hella good in mason chat tho | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 02 2014 07:07 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I meant the game where he got shot N1 and I got shot N2 and N3. he got shot N1 and I got shot N2 and N3 I got shot N2 and N3 ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qkDqh.gif) | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 02 2014 10:08 IAmRobik wrote: Not really stacked all that much. I could easily replace like 3 players oblige me - which three ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/L4h7pLo.gif) | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
![[image loading]](http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/originals/98/35/89/9835895db3cf521b7e4aea78b2ee2434.jpg) | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
rofl | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 03 2014 22:54 WaveofShadow wrote: Lulz just realized dat 7 pm deadline time. Won't be around for most of those, ladies. policy lynch | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
call me Nimitz, I'm a world-class supercarrier | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 06:14 justanothertownie wrote: I will probably be here for deadlines but I have way less time than in the last weeks. Will commit a couple of hours a day to the game but probably only in the evening (eu). w o w guilty conscience on 11 | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
EDIT1: Because I just noticed my filter is exactly 1 pg long I will be posting any thoughts until the game starts in this post to be updated as we go along. That way you can know exactly how much of my filter is in-game posting. Please remember to subscribe to this post and don't change your dial, otherwise you'll miss the best updates from the greatest show on TL. EDIT2: I agree with Koshi, there is a Great Failure occurring before our eyes. Fear not my friends, it will pass soon, and as the Great One once said, "“Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new.” - Albert Einstein" (I am the Great One in case anyoe was curious.) | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
/towncircle | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 08:08 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I think policy lynching marv is a very good idea. Either we get scum or we worsen his not lynched as town%. Win/win really. BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ##VOTE: marvellosity | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
As such we will be playing a game of Nomic to determine the rules of the /towncircle No further invitations will be accepted, currently only the following players are in the /towncircle: - Eden1892 - Artanis[Xp] - Vivax Acceptance into the Nomic game is contingent on a majority vote by the current players. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 08:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I like that plan Eden, though I think each member should be given one veto each. I'm sure we trust each other to be careful with them and only use them when we're sure it's a bad idea. OK, I can agree with this Normally propositions are majority-rule but I think it would be best to get unanimous rulings until we expand beyond three players, so I want to wait for Vivax's input | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
1. Eden I: Members are admitted to the /towncircle discussion through a majority vote of current /towncircle discussion members. 2. Artanis I: Each member of the /towncircle discussion has one veto on admission into the /towncircle discussion. 3. Eden II: I propose the following rule: If a majority of the members of the /towncircle agree to policy lynch someone, all members of the /towncircle must follow through on the policy lynch until the person who initially proposed it unvotes the target. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
1. Eden1892 (co-founder) (1 veto) 2. Artanis[Xp] (co-founder) (1 veto) 3. Vivax (co-founder) (1 veto) Current /towncircle policy lynch target: marvellosity | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
guys please do not make me the sole gatekeeper of the /towncircle i think wooden horses r cool | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 08:32 Holyflare wrote: you should totally have an opinion on me, you had an opinion on a guy that misformatted his entry so why not me? mafia buddies with haru? i peeked haru n0 and he was town | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
what role r u holyflare | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 08:35 Holyflare wrote: y u fish for role so early? what kind of treacherous town circle is this i am carefully vetting all members of the /towncircle before admitting them. please respect the process as i am sure your application will be processed shortly | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
2) who cares if he did haru > robik 3) haru has been accepted into /towncircle | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 08:42 Holyflare wrote: ^ how can you have a guy like this in a town circle and a guy that fishes for roles im forming my own town thing Bloods and Crips: /towncircle Edition | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
sorry haru you may have to wait a lil longer. artanis do you vote up or down on haru | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
why are you feeling oppressed, we at /towncircle, Inc. believe in equality and have a very inclusive policy, i would like to help you with your oppressed feelings | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 08:45 Vivax wrote: But me + you are a majority already. we cannot allow /towncircle Republic to devolve into tyranny of the majority yet though we must respect the democratic process | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 08:46 WaveofShadow wrote: I also don't know or remember much about Eden so the fact that you seem to be heading the circle doesn't exactly fill me with confidence, no offence. Prepare to be amazed, my friend. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
we here at /towncircle Corp. value our independence from violent pseudo-governmental entities very highly | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 08:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I feel oppressed over my opinions regarding Haru replacing Robik. They're not being respected. Also, I'm voting /agree on WoS joining. He's confirmed town. oh, u r rite, i am sorry i shouldnt have used dismissiv language. ur opinion is valuable 2 me but now we have an important point of discussion because how is WoS confirmed town? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 08:54 WaveofShadow wrote: Eden god complex. you would have one too if you were god | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On July 18 2014 23:32 HaruRH wrote: And he tried to buddy me literally a few posts after insulting me to the degree where I refuse to play in the same game as him. I really cannot forgive him for doing this. I won't be playing any games with eden, ever. On June 24 2014 11:58 Cavalinho wrote: I still think Eden is the worst player I've ever played with. Rofl, what a stupid game. On July 14 2014 07:52 IAmRobik wrote: It's actually really piss poor of you to think I'm mafia here. LIKE REALLY FUCKING BAD. You know why? Because in the noobie game we played together, you thought I was mafia for not pushing back on your hard. If you don't acknowledge that meta read, I'm going to fucking shit all over your face and in your mouth at daybreak tomorrow with arguments that are going to make everyone type ##vote: edenthefuckingscrubassdonkeyandhisinvisiblepartner On July 16 2014 23:38 IAmRobik wrote: Oh yeah. You're a fucking donkey JK. Just JK marv Holy shit. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 08:57 Vivax wrote: I don't understand why Eden doesn't want Haru in against his own intial rules after voting for his entrance. Wave is welcome, anyway. Offical member list: Myself Artanis Eden (Haru?) (Wave?) ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ Paranoid about rolefishing in vanilla game, BM guy, currently standing in front of an MG nest with dreams of separatism: Holyflare oh don't get me wrong i want haru in in fact haru is in now, it was 2-0 with one abstention i just wanted to make sure everyone in /towncircle People's Republic of was represented | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
uhhhhh i dunnnnooooo maaaaaan i kinda thought wave's opening was sketchy too. it's too pristine and prepared, like he's stiff. i bet he won't even dance with me /dance | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 09:00 HaruRH wrote: That's why I joined the /towncircle , as I wont get pissed if I just buddy you straight up and avpid conflict with you wow thats sketch BUT also sounds super genuine ~ I Believe Him ~ haru top town read atm followed by holyflare | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
is (s)he a stiff dancer because (s)he/xim/xir/xe seems stiff right now | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/aAJxHpK.gif) ok | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 09:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I have answered exactly what I think regarding wave's alignment. He's a magnificent dancer, too. that turned down my request to dance you don't see what i'm seeing here? too... formal, everyone else be kiddin around or using one-liners and this dude be writin paragraphs an shit | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 09:04 WaveofShadow wrote: Also Jesus Eden wtf did you do to piss everybody off . "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the jimmies of the rustled." - Thomas Washington | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
However I 2nd Holyflare's read on Wave because I think Wave's intro and posts up until the last one about the movie seemed rehearsed. Like go back and read my and HF's posts and then read Wave's, there's a clear tonal difference in them, conversational at-ease posting vs stiff posts that don't engage a lot by comparison Idk it's hard to explain but I really think the difference in tone with my posts vis-a-vis Wave's is significant | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 09:17 Vivax wrote: Only Wave truly knows if you're a genius or a madman, I prefer long term information over this simplistic stuff. ~ I Am Definitely A Madman ~ But what are you defining as simplistic stuff vs long-term information? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 11:41 gobbledydook wrote: Welp Eden aren't you President Eden on webdip or am I mistaken? the one and only OMG WAIT R U GOBBLE HI GOBBLE I THOUGHT U LOOK FAMILIAR | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 11:59 Tehpoofter wrote: I'll be posting all reads in Bang Marry Kill format lmao omg high chance i steal this in future games On August 04 2014 11:59 Tehpoofter wrote: Bang: Hf, Eden mmf yea i like dis poofter a lot | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 15:04 kushm4sta wrote: is eden a girl? Some things never change. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On April 09 2014 11:47 kushm4sta wrote: eden a girl? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 15:25 WaveofShadow wrote: Eden who is my scumread? sigh gonna make me look huh Haru for... a weird defense of you, do I have that right? Some q's on that: - Are you not interested in exploring that weird defense further? - What's weird about his defense of you exactly? - What's scum-motivated about his defense of you exactly? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Care to oblige me anyway? Particularly with the last question, which I don't think you explored in that explanation, despite your claim to the contrary | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 15:38 WaveofShadow wrote: I'll accept the final point, though I don't believe you aren't asking just to ask, because you didn't even know who you were asking about when you did at first. Easy towncred when called out for defending everyone else's apparent scumread so he can say 'lulz why would I hard defend someone everyone else is attacking as scum' but more damning is the grabbing the quick out as soon as he could when attention trundle to him. It's pretty basic scared scumplay IMO, guy made a play and felt like it might have backfired/wants to play safe and get on everyone's good site now. See conversation with GK for example. Though if they were both scum that might be interesting too. no, I knew it was Haru; I phrased it like I didn't because I find people tend to be more eager to oblige me that way if they really believe someone is scum, since they want to convince me of their read and... what? he's not hard defending you. he said that your earlier stiff play could be the result of not playing for a while and that he reads you null for stiff play. furthermore this stance has been consistent, so how did he ever "grab an out"? my main problem right now is that this read seems really superficial to me. you have to assume haru is mafia for this to make sense, and it writes off the very reasonable alternative that he's town and (imo) the better explanation for his behavior. this wouldn't be a problem, as many players good and bad struggle with giving non-superficial reads sometimes, especially early in the game. but then you turn right around with this: On August 04 2014 15:42 WaveofShadow wrote: Could say the same of you. I don't get the feeling vivax was defending him, rather simply expressing his pov. which imo was a good job reading into vivax past the most obvious conclusion. so you're clearly capable of reading into a post and recognizing a superior but non-obvious conclusion... yet you're not doing this with haru? and then at the end there's this throwaway comment about haru and goodkarma being scum. do you intend to follow up on this at all? what makes you think they might both be scum and if it's so interesting why just leave it hanging? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
"My issue is that I really don't like Wave's pacing/terminology when it comes to his posts. I don't know, call it a gut read or whatever, but if Wave were town he would be so breezy and carefree and towny and junk. I don't see any of that here. Wave feels really calculated in his posts, almost like he cares way too much." still holds up | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 17:54 kushm4sta wrote: eden, that is still a tone read. I remember a similar tone from WoS as town in some game. So not only do I disagree with tone reads in general, I disagree with your tone read in particular. Eden, it's not scummy to be serious, avoid derp, and try hard. that's not it, though, you can be serious without seeming rehearsed I don't even think this is the main point against Wave anymore, I'm more concerned with the points I raised in a couple of more recent posts, but you're not gonna convince me that the intro posts he had didn't seem rehearsed or that rehearsed posts aren't on balance more likely to be scum-motivated than town-motivated | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 18:33 gobbledydook wrote: I have come to the conclusion: Artanis is scum. He has three pages in his filter yet reading through the whole thread I don't recall seeing him say anything interesting. By Palmar's rule he is scum. fify, it's "red" not "r" | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 18:34 marvellosity wrote: Still few pages behind atm, HF actually looks town. Artanis might be mafia. Also it was the last sentence on Wave's into post that was the weirdest, but meh. Not sure how much the whole post matters on its lonesome !!! a hostile takeover of /towncircle Group, LLC | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 18:45 HaruRH wrote: Eden do you think I'm scum now Because if you think I am, I will refuse to argue with you and let you ML me. I literally will. Wtf no wher'd that come from | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 18:45 marvellosity wrote: neither of you get to decide who gets lynched On August 04 2014 18:45 marvellosity wrote: don't make promises/threats you can't keep | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
artanis might be scum, the unmemorable heuristic is a good one but a lot of people are unmemorable to this point so i'm focusing more attention on someone who was memorably shady to me (Wave) | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
##UNVOTE: marvellosity ##VOTE: WaveofShadow | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
##UNVOTE: WaveofShadow ##VOTE: Artanis[Xp] | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 19:04 kushm4sta wrote: gobblle hasn't mentioned artanis once. wow you read the thread even less than i do | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
all i remember are arguments i didn't like, not reading the thread, and hitting on me | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
who we killin? it's wave right? i might just move my vote there but first i have to do something ##UNVOTE: Artanis[Xp] ##VOTE: ObiWanShinobi scummiest scum that ever scummed get d1'd again sucker | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I actually voted for Wave. I just wanted to prod Cav because I figured he might get mad or at least drop a "wtf" if I came out of nowhere and voted for him. However Cav is clever and realized my vote was fake so he didn't get mad. Cav would get mad as scum because he knew I was expecting that he would get mad as town, soooo he is scum for keeping his cool. ##UNVOTE: WaveofShadow ##VOTE: ObiWanShinobi | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
ObiWanShibrobi who is your scum read so I can sheep u to victory | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
forget it i'm doin my own thing ##UNVOTE: ObiWanXinobi ##VOTE: WaveofShadow once i go post my real vote in the voting thread i'll explain why we should kill wos | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
third | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Also problematic to me is that the only thing I've seen that I would consider a respectable counterargument to the tone didn't come from WoS himself. Haru made a reasonable argument to me about WoS's time off prior to this game. I could see someone being rusty after some time off regardless of alignment and coming off rusty that way. I just have an intuitive read that that isn't what's happening. But Wave himself doesn't address this at all... seriously, go read, he doesn't. Why not? In fact, he turns around and scumreads Haru for defending him! And then in subsequent posts he doubles down on the idea that the only reasonable defense of his early stiff play was scummy. - When I asked Wave what was scum-motivated about Haru's read on him, I got a pretty bad response back. I've covered it here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463513-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-iii?page=19#371 No reply from him yet on it, in fact less response than I expected in general from it which is disappointing. I think it's a good post. Wave clearly displays some next-level reading skills in his read on Vivax, but then it doesn't translate to his scumread. In fact I would even argue that Wave's read on Vivax (quoted in above post) is, fundamentally, the same as Haru's read on Wave. Both of them are providing a reasonable, town-motivation explanation for the behavior of a player who was coming under fire in the thread at the time, being willing to look beyond the immediate mafia heuristic available and say "Hey, I don't think it works this time." Basically I don't see, still, why he scumreads Haru at all. And the timing of it is really sketchy considering the lack of solid argumentation for it: it was right around the time that Haru started coming under fire for his read on Wave, and attention had subsequently started to shift off of Wave. It was the ideal timing for scum to jump onto something vulnerable and get attention off of themselves. Combine it with the superficiality of the read itself and we're onto something here, friends. Also want to talk briefly about Haru. I don't think he's scum. I think he phrased the +1-1 thing a little awkwardly, but it seems so obviously coming from the POV of a townie who said the first thing that came to mind that I'm mystified as to how it's being read otherwise. People have commented on Haru's filter being superficial and safe, but I don't see it at all! I see the opposite. He went completely against the flow of the thread to give what I think was an insightful read on Wave's behavior. It's a read I ultimately disagree with, but it's still an intelligent read that indicates to me that someone's trying. Remember that scum have to force rather a lot of ML's this game, four in total to win. I don't understand why scum!Haru, facing the task of getting four people ML'd to win, would bother going against the grain early to defend someone who looks legitimately shady. Nor do I consider that WIFOM, WIFOM involves situations where both options under consideration have a more-or-less equal payout and I really don't think that defending shady townies has anywhere close to an equal payout over the long run with such a long game. TL;DR: - Wave is scum because of stiff early posting + nonsensical scum read - Haru is town and it's silly that people are calling his filter superficial | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
just read the tl;dr and then if you need an explanation check the preceding paragraphs. but DO check the linked post in the middle!! it's good! at 0:42 i was so angry. 1:35 my heart skipped a beat. by 2:23 i was jumping for joy | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
meanwhile can you talk about my wave case since it was the bulk of my post | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
these hoes aint loyal | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
- didn't scumread wave for posting little - wave has "content"... but it's bad. as in it doesn't make sense. i explained why already, please see the attached post in the middle of the big post before. why would i ignore nonsensical content? - i don't agree that haru has no content - no one is excessively or solely scumreading haru for +1-1, never said this, simply used it as example - not everyone is scumreading wave and even those of us who are aren't doing so for the same reasons - the read about wave comes to mind, i would concede that his gk/pooft/hf read is superficial but it's there and, at a minimum, no worse than anything wave has done this game i am trying to avoid discussing haru further because i would like haru himself to check back in, so please respect the difficulty in walking the line between explaining a townread/defending someone so thoroughly that they don't have to defend themselves (in which case if i'm wrong i've let a mafia hide more) and explaining it insufficiently thoroughly and being unconvincing, and allow me the opportunity to defer discussing this in more detail until he returns and posts more. ty | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 05 2014 04:25 Holyflare wrote: it's not just about haru it's about you too bro  i will continue to be the GOAT townie irrespective of my opinion on haru, no worries do you have a particular reason for why not wave, or is it more along the lines of "i don't see why wave over xyz other people"? (either answer is fine) | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
hey justanothertownie r u just another townie cuz ur just another townie who aint done anything memorable 2 me | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 05 2014 04:45 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I love you marv, lol. I will, when I see something. now hold the fuckin phone for a sec are you implying you see nothing else to comment on in the thread besides marv? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
i reiterate this because i'm going to get him lynched now. better find some new Huggies cav ##UNVOTE: WaveofShadow ##VOTE: ObiWanShinobi | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
i hate to even ask for this but i need proof you're not just bullshitting, so give townreads too | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 05 2014 06:24 WaveofShadow wrote: Faking townreads is easy as hell if that's what you're worried about, why do you hate asking? cause asking people "who are your townreads" just tells the mafia who to shoot cav, if you're not confident in my ability to read you, then you should prolly do something to help me improve reading you. like give me something to work with. cause there is a lot of shit going on and you're telling me there's nothing to comment on and that's just false, brother | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
i'm tryna cooperate, help me help you dude | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
what's up? i don't remember you saying much and i don't have a qt to check this time. let's figure out who to kill huh | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
wave when you gonna talk about something i said that matters | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463513-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-iii?page=19#371 which i admit is becoming less relevant as we go on, but i can't let ya leave that hanging either | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
not killing ever: Eden1892 not killing today: marvellosity, Holyflare, kushm4sta, gobbledydook don't want to kill today, but would: Tehpoofter, Vivax, HaruRH indifferent to killing today: goodkarma, WaveofShadow, Artanis, justanothertownie, ObiWanShinobi actively want to kill today: the blankness in the last category is bothering me and probably why i feel scatterbrained atm, i made this list for my benefit and yours, let's work something out there's five people in the "indifferent" category, someone help me pick one | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
minor town lean tho he needs to actually do something or else he'll be on the radar by day's end gobble i'd have to go look up specifics to give a coherent explanation but i remember his posts having a lot of clarity of direction to them. he seemed like he was playing open and like he wasn't holding anything back. just looks townie to me | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
in fact in 30 minutes i'm going to policy lynch out of the marv voters + people who haven't voted yet | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
i would much rather pick from the five i'm indifferent about. any thoughts on them? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 05 2014 07:45 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Who self-metas themselves as town? Is that even a towny thing to do? Wtf? dude i thought that shit was fucking awesome lmao i love giving reads on myself if people are giving me shit the act itself is null, i would evaluate it on the strength of the self-read. ...which admittedly i feel like wasn't a great argument jat why is justanothertownie town, i feel like that guy who's looking at a box that says "THIS SIDE UP" with a hole on the other side of the box when i look at justanothertownie's name | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
##VOTE: Artanis[Xp] let's go | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
.-----.-----.-----.-----. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 05 2014 09:03 Artanis[Xp] wrote: It's mere coincidence, I was already working on going through the thread before Eden posted. Eden in your read about WoS you mention how Haru didn't hard defend WoS at first, yet later in Haru's defense you talk about how he defended a, from his perspective, town in WoS if he were scum and that not making sense. Do you consider what he did a defense or not? a defense but not a hard-defense; Haru never (iirc) called Wave town (which in my understanding of the term "hard defense" is a necessary component) but he did say the argument against Wave was null which, compared to others calling it scum, is a defense | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
relevance when | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 05 2014 09:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I wanted to know how much I agreed with your WoS case and that argument didn't make sense to me, so I needed clarification. but that argument didn't have anything to do with why Wave is scum it was a tangential discussion on why I felt Haru was town | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WLhrT40.gif) | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Still needs to do more than just look innocent Gobble moved way down my list, RIP Someone point me to something Artanis said that's cool or useful? I'd say Obi too but I'm used to it from him, not Arty Wave looks ok now and I still think Haru is aight Vaguely worried about Holyflare but if he is mafia we have plenty of time to catch him, not comfy d1 lynching him esp. when I can't articulate exactly what worries me about him yet. Look at me I'm catching up in real time wow so town Poofter when you gonna put a ring on it | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
(Inb4 fuck you) | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
but like... artanis isn't even trying | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 05 2014 16:36 Tehpoofter wrote: Cav make a bang marry kill list with me I'm about to... P.S. you're on it kill: eden | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 05 2014 16:41 kushm4sta wrote: kind of counterintuitive that marry is between bang and kill then. it's a chronological sequence of events | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 05 2014 16:44 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I'll probably do a reread of the game when I wake up tomorrow, hopefully I missed a thing I can point out. Honestly fuck all the tryhards here, 'cause they're not letting me do shit. i give you permission not to suck | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
competition~ | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 05 2014 16:48 goodkarma wrote: Apparently kush is a polygamist. let's be real does that surprise you | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 05 2014 17:16 Tehpoofter wrote: [/b][/green]Eden will you be mine? thought you'd never ask! yes btw watch out for kush he might try to kill you now k guys poofter is confirmed town, let's move on to more productive avenues like lynching artanis | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 05 2014 17:27 Tehpoofter wrote: Keep reading. I'm trying to get into your pants. ![[image loading]](http://pays.imaginaire.free.fr/Images%20Mangas/FMA/Manga/Manga%20Black%20hayate%20portrait_small.jpg) | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
excellent this is going to be fantastic | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 05 2014 18:12 Holyflare wrote: Point to me where he is even skeptical of me because i can point to you multiple times that he has called me town. Every post i make that accuses him he doesn't get more suspicious he just passes it off as something wrong instead. It's not normal conspiracy theorist wave. Artanis has done nothing, his posts were very artificial abd he's probably the best lynch. Thrre was that one post that made me skeptical of his alignment but his latest string of posts looks like some mafia that had to post some content to stay alive rather than someone trying to figure things out. I.E. Bringing up thing about jat but not continuing it, the random oh I'm being terrible into afking. ![[image loading]](http://static.gamespot.com/uploads/original/428/4283637/2425156-the+rock+clapping.gif) I agree Poof are you comfortable with a 3some | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
hmm i can think of reasons a townie might do that but i'm not going to preempt poofter's own defense marv are you still feeling arty today? if so please help me convince people like obiwanjabroni to stop derping around | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
ooo why vivax i forget what i thought about him so he's back to indifferent for me | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
i can let you do that to arty who literally conceded his own awfulness he was so awful, and who is also still voting you because (?)jabroni(?) | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
i guess i'm a little hesitant b/c i know i didn't read anything he said while he was arguing with holyflare earlier and it seems a little shitty of me to be like "lol i dont remember u sayin anything so u must b scum" when i know i very pointedly didnt read something he said as opposed to artanis who i know for a fact is being useless | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 05 2014 18:53 justanothertownie wrote: <POSTS, STILL SAYS NOTHING TO HELP SCUMHUNT> do you have a memorable opinion on anything this game | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
hi i am eden and im bad at rts with no real desire to improve. i just wanna build cities man  i think i'm gonna filter dive and just policy not-lynch people who look like they're trying to give a shit because tbh i feel like half the people in this game aren't | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
seriously draw a line in between #5 and #6 on the roster. it is the dead line. not the deadline, because there's no time involved, silly, but the dead line, as in "everyone below this line is dead to me right now" | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 05 2014 20:49 marvellosity wrote: why don't you use your time looking through Vivax's filter? why don't i read lorem ipsum it's about as pertinent to the game and marginally more interesting | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
- /towncircle LLC membership - lots of talking to the people he's accusing, very few attempts to convince us to lynch them - seems pretty wishy-washy on his reads there's a couple of things i felt decent to good about in what he was saying earlier (couple of posts where he pays close attention to whether people are representing their cases in a balanced fashion vs one-sided fashion that seems like he's trying to figure it out), but those things miss some crucial followup, and he doesn't have any thread presence to speak of yeah i could kill him | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
@marv it does seem too good to be true, and more crucially (for me anyway) i'm trying to figure out where the scumteam's attempt to misdirect is. with 3 slots i would expect at least one mobster to be active itt throwing us the wrong way, especially in a game with a lot of people that know their way around. mafia isn't going to get 4 ml's on this crew without actively trying to mislead, but then why are all the scummy people the ones who aren't doing anything? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 05 2014 21:18 marvellosity wrote: who cares? all that is unimportant on day 1 (and mostly after too), you just find someone who looks like mafia and you lynch them. eh, i guess. somehow it just feels too easy that scum!artanis would be so defeatist through d1 whatever, you're right though, just need to pick someone out of all these perfectly killable jabronis and get it done | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 05 2014 21:26 kushm4sta wrote: abou vivax: Try to understand this post if you dare (I don't suggest it). I spent about 5 minutes on it reading it again and again. So far I think it has something to do with goodkarma being scummy because he didn't read the scumminess of his two scum reads equally, and that is scummy because of some other reason I can't understand. But the fact that he thought through all this shit makes him town. + Show Spoiler + On August 05 2014 00:44 Vivax wrote: It seems there is a strong difference in Goodkarma's play regarding his two scumreads. I feel he ended up focusing much more on Haru than on WoS, and that after criticizing Haru for nullreading WoS for that. Like, the one thing GoodKarma had to expect in his opinion was that Haru would scumread WoS with a -1. I think that if they wanted to nullread somebody as opposed to scumreading him, then scum would prefer ścumreading the townie and null reading the other scum. If that's what GK might think, too, then he must just feel as strongly scummy about Wave than he does for Haru, cause just then nullreading WoS might show a scum motive. However all we are left with Goodkarma vs Wave is: WoS wrote this before GK posted that: So they both scumread the same guy, Wave says what he found scummy about Haru, but GoodKarma still asks him that. Besides, I don't really like the reason WoS is using there for scumreading Haru, so I'm surprised Goodkarma wouldn't also try to get more interactions with WoS aside from that sort of loaded post. shrug. i kinda see where you're coming from, but i don't think it's that complex of a point that he's making. i'm not convinced it's necessarily town thought process | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 05 2014 21:28 marvellosity wrote: Artanis is fighting a hell of a lot more now than last time I/we lynched him d1 as mafia. did he post his role PM last time? half-serious question, i don't see the same fight you're seeing | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
i don't really like this artanis lynch anymore, we need to find a better candidate and fast. i don't like arty's play at all but his recent posts seem genuine. it's bizarre and dumb that he's so pointedly unhelpful, i expect better from him. but i feel like scum would look at themselves accumulating votes and be like "ok, time to try to do something" let's try vivax for now, that seems like a good alternative candidate ##UNVOTE: Artanis[Xp] ##VOTE: Vivax | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 05 2014 21:51 kushm4sta wrote: eden did you not see what marv said? last time he was scum he let town kill him without putting up a fight. That is metaevidence that he gives up as scum. So why are you townreading him for it? because one data point isn't worth anything to me the voting record also bothers me. he's been accumulating votes steadily throughout the day even though discussion has been elsewhere for the most part. wave, haru, obi, gobble and now vivax have all been getting talked about as being scummy but votes just haven't been moving over to them. it seems weird that artanis would be scum and everyone would be talking a bunch about killing someone besides artanis but that artanis would be the main wagon. like i had to look at the voting thread to remember he was the lead wagon. it's the quietest lead wagon i've seen in a while | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 05 2014 21:54 kushm4sta wrote: Of course artanis would do this as mafia. He is a person who likes logic and justice. He hates playing mafia. He is also prideful so he hates getting caught even more. his reaction to getting "caught" (if that's how we're going to define this) is about as prideless as can be | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 05 2014 21:56 kushm4sta wrote: he got caught by marv so he gave up. You cant lose a game you don't play mentality i have more respect for artanis than that and if you end up being right i'll be incredibly disappointed in him | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Haru, you're not really putting me in town just because you don't want to argue with me? I don't argue with the read (obviously lol) nor do I mind the lack of desire to argue with me, but it sounds like you're just doing that to appease me almost, which is odd | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
did everyone just wake up this morning and go "OH SHIT I HAVE A GAME TO PLAY"? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
##UNVOTE: Vivax ##VOTE: HaruRH | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 00:59 Vivax wrote: Marv please lynch me so all my shit gains the credibility required to fuck up you and your scum friends. don't be stupid if you're town you stand a much better chance getting your lynch by being alive to argue for it rather than dead and ignored | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
gotta think this over. right now our choices are haru or artanis, huh? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
god damn it | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
good news though, this means i get to pick the lynch since clearly, no one knows what they're doing | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
i keep getting this feeling that he's a townie tripping hard on his words/thoughts rather than scum that and i got spooked a bit by the rapid pile-up on him but that dissipated i gotta say though i expected him to be more mad about possibly getting mislynched, esp. when i piled on to make it 5 votes for literally no stated reason whatsoever | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
##VOTE: gobbledydook i'm buying vivax's comment that the case on haru looked scum-driven, and tbh i don't understand how it is that at one point last night everyone itt was like "this dude looks scummy" but he never got a vote | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 03:13 Tehpoofter wrote: ##Vote gobbledydook gorgeous | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 03:29 kushm4sta wrote: GD, what is the difference, would you say? also this is really your first towngame? because judging by your first two games here on tl, it seems like you have experience playing forum mafia somewhere else. oh wow lol no he's played town before on webdip i subbed into a game where he was town and got n1'd to be fair he prolly means "every game on tl" but at the same time he's not new to being town... | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
which would be a hilarious tragedy of fates | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
in March I introduced forum mafia this is the game I cited: http://webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?viewthread=1129589#1129589 however I don't believe gobble is lying. contextually I think he meant that he had never played as town on tl mafia | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
i didn't since the last bajillion posts of his are about gobbledydook | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
sorry kush, he's not lying, it was badly phrased. I wish it were, but it's not gonna be this easy | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
##UNVOTE: gobbledydook ##VOTE: HaruRH Like I said earlier, go look at Haru's filter. His vote has been on Artanis forever, but he explicitly backed off of Artanis in favor of gobbledydook. Haru hasn't been pushing his lynch target much at all this game, no matter who it's been. He has no thread presence by choice, lots of posting but he's not going anywhere with it. Furthermore, he seemed far too resigned to being lynched compared to my read on his personality from our previous game together. Haru is a fighter, he's a prideful player - great traits to have IMO. He wouldn't go down so meekly if he were town. He would have raised holy hell at the fact that a wagon piled up on him as quickly as it did and he would have fought like hell to get out of it. I know he's not around now due to timezones, that's not on him, but he had plenty of time to push the lynch he wanted and he didn't, and he had plenty of time to fight his lynch and he didn't. Of the lynches that look viable at this point, this is easily the best. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
- justanothertownie - ObiWanJabroni However I don't think any of those lynches are viable at this point. And honestly of those two I think in terms of raw preference I would only go for Cav over Haru, JAT doesn't seem like he's surrendering thread presence by choice nearly as much. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Why aren't you doing anything this game? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I'm not going after you today in all likelihood no worries | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 05:19 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Because I'm lazy and this game is comprised of a bunch of tryhards who want a belt. Hmm. This isn't the Cav I remember, but it's been a while. I don't really agree with this assessment, either. There's a lot of people that I feel like aren't trying. It's what's making this so damn difficult. There are a few viable lynches I can understand and then like 4-5 people who are in my blind spot because they aren't doing anything memorable. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 05:21 justanothertownie wrote: I don't care about you going after me but I sure as hell did influence this threads direction today wtf. get a second opinion then, you haven't been memorable to me. if i'm wrong, ok i don't care, i'm not lynching you today. if i'm right, there you go. ezpz | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
##UNVOTE: HaruRH ##VOTE: ObiWanShinobi I keep wavering so I'm just going to kill the guy who pointedly does not give a shit about figuring anything out and sort the rest out tomorrow. Poofy you need to get online and help me kill him. Everyone else should too. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I'll switch back to Haru near deadline if this somehow doesn't get traction, but seriously, we should kill him already. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 05:36 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Let's kill a lazy person over a scummy person. #teamliquid who is the scummy person | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 05:37 justanothertownie wrote: What scummy person are we killing you over? my ninja | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 05:39 marvellosity wrote: also we aren't lynching obi, that's a red herring. i don't really want vivax though | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 05:45 marvellosity wrote: to expand, i don't feel like Haru is the kind of player to back down from his perch like that. hrg. he's not, and if he would do it as any one alignment, it would be as scum | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
##UNVOTE: ObiWanShinobi ##VOTE: HaruRH | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
why did you stop returning my calls you won't even open my texts the quicktopic is so lonely | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 06:02 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Simple: if that townie is an idiot. Is Haru an idiot? no | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 06:45 LoneMeow wrote: Counting of votes: Artanis[Xp] (1): gobbledydook (2): Vivax, Eden1892 (0): Vivax (2): Tehpoofter (0): ObiWanShinobi (0): HaruRH (7): WaveofShadow (0): marvellosity (0): Not voting (1): ObiWanShinobi With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is Tuesday, Aug 05 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) (in ). + Show Spoiler [Vote counter log] + VOTE: Eden1892 voted Eden1892 (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted Eden1892 (post) VOTE: Artanis[Xp] voted Marvellosity (marvellosity) (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted marvellosity (post) VOTE: Vivax voted marvellosity (post) VOTE: HaruRH voted marvellosity (post) VOTE: WaveofShadow voted marvellosity (post) VOTE: ObiWanShinobi voted Wave (WaveofShadow) (post) VOTE: gobbledydook voted HaruRH (post) VOTE: kushm4sta voted WoS (WaveofShadow) (post) VOTE: kushm4sta unvoted WaveofShadow (post) ERROR: kushm4sta voted invalid player gg (post) VOTE: gobbledydook unvoted HaruRH (post) VOTE: gobbledydook voted Artanis[XP] (Artanis[Xp]) (post) VOTE: marvellosity voted Artanis (Artanis[Xp]) (post) WARNING: marvellosity changed vote without unvote (post) VOTE: marvellosity unvoted Artanis[Xp] (post) VOTE: marvellosity voted Artanis[xp] (Artanis[Xp]) (post) VOTE: marvellosity unvoted Artanis[Xp] (post) VOTE: marvellosity voted Artanis[xp] (Artanis[Xp]) (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted marvellosity (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted WaveofShadow (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted WaveofShadow (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted Artanis[Xp] (post) VOTE: HaruRH unvoted marvellosity (post) VOTE: HaruRH voted Artanis [xp] (Artanis[Xp]) (post) WARNING: kushm4sta unvoted without vote (post) VOTE: kushm4sta voted artanis (Artanis[Xp]) (post) VOTE: ObiWanShinobi unvoted WaveofShadow (post) VOTE: ObiWanShinobi voted marv (marvellosity) (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted Artanis[Xp] (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted WaveofShadow (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted WaveofShadow (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted ObiWanShinobi (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted ObiWanShinobi (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted WaveofShadow (post) VOTE: Holyflare voted obiwanshinobi (ObiWanShinobi) (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted WaveofShadow (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted ObiWanShinobi (post) VOTE: WaveofShadow unvoted marvellosity (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted ObiWanShinobi (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted Artanis[Xp] (post) VOTE: WaveofShadow voted HaruRH (post) VOTE: Holyflare unvoted ObiWanShinobi (post) VOTE: Holyflare voted tehpoofter (Tehpoofter) (post) VOTE: goodkarma voted Tehpoofter (post) VOTE: Holyflare unvoted Tehpoofter (post) VOTE: gobbledydook unvoted Artanis[Xp] (post) VOTE: gobbledydook voted Tehpoofter (post) ERROR: Tehpoofter voted invalid player Gooblyzilla (post) VOTE: Holyflare voted artanis[Xp] (Artanis[Xp]) (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted Artanis[Xp] (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted Vivax (post) VOTE: Artanis[Xp] unvoted marvellosity (post) VOTE: Artanis[Xp] voted HaruRH (post) VOTE: marvellosity unvoted Artanis[Xp] (post) VOTE: marvellosity voted HaruRH (post) VOTE: gobbledydook unvoted Tehpoofter (post) VOTE: gobbledydook voted HaruRH (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted Vivax (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted HaruRH (post) VOTE: justanothertownie voted HaruRH (post) VOTE: marvellosity unvoted HaruRH (post) VOTE: marvellosity voted Vivax (post) VOTE: Vivax unvoted marvellosity (post) VOTE: Vivax voted gobbledydook (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted HaruRH (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted gobbledydook (post) VOTE: Tehpoofter voted gobbledydook (post) VOTE: ObiWanShinobi unvoted marvellosity (post) VOTE: goodkarma unvoted Tehpoofter (post) VOTE: goodkarma voted Vivax (post) VOTE: kushm4sta unvoted Artanis[Xp] (post) VOTE: kushm4sta voted gobbledydook (post) VOTE: Holyflare unvoted Artanis[Xp] (post) VOTE: Holyflare voted vivax (Vivax) (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted gobbledydook (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted HaruRH (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted HaruRH (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted ObiWanShinobi (post) VOTE: marvellosity unvoted Vivax (post) VOTE: marvellosity voted HaruRH (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted ObiWanShinobi (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted HaruRH (post) VOTE: Tehpoofter unvoted gobbledydook (post) VOTE: Tehpoofter voted Haru (HaruRH) (post) underlined: you are kidding me | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I bet he doesn't do anything about this | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 08:04 iamperfection wrote: Night 1 Vivax the Town Member has been lynched until the day post Counting of votes: Artanis[Xp] (0): gobbledydook (2): Vivax, Eden1892 (0): Vivax (8): Tehpoofter (0): ObiWanShinobi (0): HaruRH (3): WaveofShadow (0): marvellosity (0): Not voting (0): With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is Tuesday, Aug 05 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) (in ). + Show Spoiler [Vote counter log] + VOTE: Eden1892 voted Eden1892 (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted Eden1892 (post) VOTE: Artanis[Xp] voted Marvellosity (marvellosity) (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted marvellosity (post) VOTE: Vivax voted marvellosity (post) VOTE: HaruRH voted marvellosity (post) VOTE: WaveofShadow voted marvellosity (post) VOTE: ObiWanShinobi voted Wave (WaveofShadow) (post) VOTE: gobbledydook voted HaruRH (post) VOTE: kushm4sta voted WoS (WaveofShadow) (post) VOTE: kushm4sta unvoted WaveofShadow (post) ERROR: kushm4sta voted invalid player gg (post) VOTE: gobbledydook unvoted HaruRH (post) VOTE: gobbledydook voted Artanis[XP] (Artanis[Xp]) (post) VOTE: marvellosity voted Artanis (Artanis[Xp]) (post) WARNING: marvellosity changed vote without unvote (post) VOTE: marvellosity unvoted Artanis[Xp] (post) VOTE: marvellosity voted Artanis[xp] (Artanis[Xp]) (post) VOTE: marvellosity unvoted Artanis[Xp] (post) VOTE: marvellosity voted Artanis[xp] (Artanis[Xp]) (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted marvellosity (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted WaveofShadow (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted WaveofShadow (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted Artanis[Xp] (post) VOTE: HaruRH unvoted marvellosity (post) VOTE: HaruRH voted Artanis [xp] (Artanis[Xp]) (post) WARNING: kushm4sta unvoted without vote (post) VOTE: kushm4sta voted artanis (Artanis[Xp]) (post) VOTE: ObiWanShinobi unvoted WaveofShadow (post) VOTE: ObiWanShinobi voted marv (marvellosity) (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted Artanis[Xp] (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted WaveofShadow (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted WaveofShadow (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted ObiWanShinobi (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted ObiWanShinobi (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted WaveofShadow (post) VOTE: Holyflare voted obiwanshinobi (ObiWanShinobi) (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted WaveofShadow (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted ObiWanShinobi (post) VOTE: WaveofShadow unvoted marvellosity (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted ObiWanShinobi (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted Artanis[Xp] (post) VOTE: WaveofShadow voted HaruRH (post) VOTE: Holyflare unvoted ObiWanShinobi (post) VOTE: Holyflare voted tehpoofter (Tehpoofter) (post) VOTE: goodkarma voted Tehpoofter (post) VOTE: Holyflare unvoted Tehpoofter (post) VOTE: gobbledydook unvoted Artanis[Xp] (post) VOTE: gobbledydook voted Tehpoofter (post) ERROR: Tehpoofter voted invalid player Gooblyzilla (post) VOTE: Holyflare voted artanis[Xp] (Artanis[Xp]) (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted Artanis[Xp] (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted Vivax (post) VOTE: Artanis[Xp] unvoted marvellosity (post) VOTE: Artanis[Xp] voted HaruRH (post) VOTE: marvellosity unvoted Artanis[Xp] (post) VOTE: marvellosity voted HaruRH (post) VOTE: gobbledydook unvoted Tehpoofter (post) VOTE: gobbledydook voted HaruRH (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted Vivax (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted HaruRH (post) VOTE: justanothertownie voted HaruRH (post) VOTE: marvellosity unvoted HaruRH (post) VOTE: marvellosity voted Vivax (post) VOTE: Vivax unvoted marvellosity (post) VOTE: Vivax voted gobbledydook (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted HaruRH (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted gobbledydook (post) VOTE: Tehpoofter voted gobbledydook (post) VOTE: ObiWanShinobi unvoted marvellosity (post) VOTE: goodkarma unvoted Tehpoofter (post) VOTE: goodkarma voted Vivax (post) VOTE: kushm4sta unvoted Artanis[Xp] (post) VOTE: kushm4sta voted gobbledydook (post) VOTE: Holyflare unvoted Artanis[Xp] (post) VOTE: Holyflare voted vivax (Vivax) (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted gobbledydook (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted HaruRH (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted HaruRH (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted ObiWanShinobi (post) VOTE: marvellosity unvoted Vivax (post) VOTE: marvellosity voted HaruRH (post) VOTE: Eden1892 unvoted ObiWanShinobi (post) VOTE: Eden1892 voted HaruRH (post) VOTE: Tehpoofter unvoted gobbledydook (post) VOTE: Tehpoofter voted Haru (HaruRH) (post) BRB quitting job so I never miss EOD again smh why | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
not because Vivax was lynched, I'm not gonna be That Donkey that shows up after missing EOD and whines about a last-minute switch being Soooooo Obviously Bad, but because I was sure we had Haru lined up and felt good about it and went to sleep and dreamed of poofter and then woke up and found we didn't lynch Haru after all | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I actually think marv looks significantly worse than HF out of those two although I'm not sold on either. I want Cav tomorrow though, I feel pretty good about that case. Did not like his EOD play at all, looked like scum who got caught up in the Chinese fire drill and was having trouble calculating whether switching was a good play. That plus his pointed refusal to be involved in the direction of the thread = good scum case | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 11:34 WaveofShadow wrote: My issue with the 'having trouble calculating' part, is would cav let us know about all the trouble he was having out loud? Also why does marv look worse? I know marv way better than you do I imagine, and I'm interested in what you got out of his play. eh I guess it depends on Haru's flip really so I'm not putting much stock into it, but on balance I think scum are much more likely to follow a move at EOD rather than start one. path of least resistance and all and I know that can be subverted, hence the "on balance" aspect re: whether Cav would let us know, I feel like he would yeah. just putting myself in my scum slippers for a minute, if I'm in the thread at EOD and there's a serious push to lynch someone I know will flip town, I'm certainly not gonna flip willy-nilly, I'm gonna make it look like I'm struggling to figure it out tbh I'm more interested in two things besides him moving to Vivax: 1) the pointed refusal to take any responsibility for where the thread is going by pushing for a particular lynch with anything resembling a credible case 2) the fact that it took for-fucking-ever for him to even put a vote down and show people where he stood before the end | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 12:02 WaveofShadow wrote: Eh, I think scum is more likely not to make a big deal and go with the flow because making a big deal draws attention. Nobody is going to go back and say 'well look at how hesitant he was to vote for a townie, surely he couldn't be scum.' I think #2 is more incriminating than #1. There are plenty of people who have just gone with thread sentiment or never bothered to push cases in the game thus far. they wouldn't say that, but you don't think the opposite of that is something people would say? "look at how quickly he parked a vote on a townie, that's pretty sketchy" especially after not voting all day and yeah I know that's why this game is so hard rofl. but that doesn't mean I can't or shouldn't start lynching people out of that group either | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
i thought the vivax lynch made marv look significantly worse than hf because pre-edit: lol i did here you go, i just didn't use any names so it didn't make any sense eh I guess it depends on Haru's flip really so I'm not putting much stock into it, but on balance I think scum are much more likely to follow a move at EOD rather than start one. path of least resistance and all and I know that can be subverted, hence the "on balance" aspect basically marv was sitting around watching for someone to sheep almost, reading eod. he seemed lost which is really out-of-character for him imo. i can understand it to an extent, but i didn't really feel like vivax made sense and... i dunno it just looked convenient to hop on hyperconfident holyflare's lynch i almost never scumread people who drive a new wagon at EOD unless the original wagon flips scum, i'm sure one day someone clever like onceking will burn me for it but until it happens i've literally never seen scum drum up a town bandwagon at eod to counter another town wagon WITH ALL THAT SAID i'm likely tinfoiling if i seriously consider the idea of either of them being scum right now, i would guess this is a moot question because they get n1'd and n2'd | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 12:25 Tehpoofter wrote: Its okay Eden we just get goobly tomorrow. That Haru wagon might have been right but that CFD onto vivax was just bad :/ bby dont leave like that. also do you think we had two scum wagons? that sounds like the implication in your post, which is... interesting, i have to think about what that implies about the vivax cfd | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
what's a hard scum read? === post coming up about EOD now that i've thought more about it, conclusions likely to be different from those implied in previous posts, standby | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
1. Either we had a mafia wagon out of Haru or gobble on d1, or we didn't. 2. If we had a mafia wagon on d1, that strongly implies to me, from past experience, that the mafia have very weak thread presence. It's not difficult at all to deflect a lynch onto a townie on the first day, before anyone has flipped. 3. If the mafia have a very weak thread presence, then it is significantly unlikely that the Vivax wagon, which was generated very rapidly and effectively on very short notice, is mafia-driven, because if the mafia had the thread presence to generate that wagon that quickly, they would never have had a teammate up for a lynch in the first place. 4. If the Vivax wagon is not mafia-driven, then it is town-driven. 5. If we didn't have a mafia wagon on d1, that strongly implies to me, from past experience and analysis of incentives, that the mafia wouldn't have generated a third wagon. Generating a wagon is a risky venture for mafia because they have to fabricate a case and be public about pushing it, which puts them in the spotlight and forces them to work hard to look townie. Furthermore if they already have two town wagons set up, they're in an ideal spot. Not only do they not stand to gain anything from generating another wagon, they might accidentally cause a shakeup in some of the townies' thought processes with the sudden movement that causes the mafia to lose control of the situation. Mafia very strongly favor a static, not dynamic, game state. 6. If the mafia wouldn't have generated a third wagon (the Vivax wagon), then the Vivax wagon must be town-driven. 7. Regardless of whether or not the Haru and/or gobble wagons are town or mafia, the Vivax wagon is town-driven. 8. Therefore, the Vivax wagon is town-driven. We need to be looking at people who were hesitant to jump on the Vivax wagon or change anything up. People who jumped on the wagon late in the turn, or people who were around during the last hour or so but didn't move their vote or acknowledge the shift much, are more likely to be mafia than those who got on the Vivax wagon early. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I know there wasn't much of a case on Vivax, I've already called the lynch dumb a few times, but it doesn't matter to me if it's dumb or not. People fuck up and shit happens. What matters is making sure it was, in fact, a shit-happens fuck up and not deliberate sabotage - that is, town-driven vs scum-driven. Your second paragraph literally doesn't even address my argument lol. It was going to take us days to sort out Haru and gobble and what the mafia was trying to do d1 anyway. All the Vivax wagon did is delay their flips a day at worst (if we decide they're still scummy enough to kill). I don't really see how the Vivax wagon generated a lot of confusion. It just added another puzzle to solve, a puzzle whose solution's skeleton I've already been gracious enough to provide. I bet I can get a lot of useful info out of it before you and your boys n1 me. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Vivax voters: goodkarma - null. Was on Vivax wagon before it was a town indicator, wasn't around at EOD. Holyflare - town. Pushed the shit out of Vivax wagon. marvellosity - town. I misremembered marv's filter when I was describing my reservations to Wave. marv's thought process and post progression looks genuine here. justanothertownie - town. Same as above minus the misremembering. Artanis[Xp] - town. Same as above. In particular the comment shortly after the lynch about Vivax meta that was "out of frustration" looked townie to me. HaruRH - null. Switched last second to save himself. ObiWanShinobi - scum. Waffled forever and seemed way too worried about how he looked. Only switched because he got browbeaten into it to avoid an NL. Tehpoofter - null. Switched last second to avoid an NL. gobbledydook voters: Vivax - [town] kushm4sta - null. Stood his ground on the wagon he was pushing. Until we know the alignment of gobbledydook it's hard to say whether or not this is a good thing or bad thing. HaruRH voters: WaveofShadow - null. Wasn't around for EOD. gobbledydook - null. Wasn't around for EOD except to make a last-second failed switch to Vivax to avoid NL. Eden1892 - null. Wasn't around for EOD. Combined with earlier impressions... /towncircle Co. Eden1892 Holyflare marvellosity justanothertownie Artanis[Xp]/Onegu Tehpoofter kushm4sta /kill Circle Co. ObiWanShinobi HaruRH goodkarma gobbledydook WaveofShadow Right now Wave is trending toward /towncircle Co. pretty hard and I think I want to just kill down the line there. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
It's patently false that I said no one on the Vivax wagon could be mafia. I explicitly named half of the people on it as scum or null. I'm not sure what you're hoping to accomplish with your current angle. You know good and well it's not going to convince me of anything, and as far as I can tell it's not convincing anybody else, either (although admittedly there's only been one person, Wave, online to comment). | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 15:55 ObiWanShinobi wrote: If a bunch of people you think are scum are on the Vivax wagon, then it is not a town-driven wagon. Honestly, I'm going to take a break from posting for a while because both of you are frustrating me. Do you not understand what the driven part of that means? It means the mafia didn't put in active legwork to make it happen. Town did. If you want to just play numbers and ignore the context (which is an elementary mistake in the first place, but since you're going there...), eight people voted for Vivax and there are only three mafia, so the wagon is town-driven by default. But that's not an interesting or useful conclusion. What is useful is analyzing the motive for town to form such a wagon last-minute as opposed to mafia. I've argued extensively why I think the town motive is much more plausible than the scum motive and you haven't begun to address any of it. In reverse, so far you've only argued that it added to the confusion - which really isn't true - and that it removed a competent late-game player - which I can't validate for accuracy either way, but even assuming it is true, is a pretty weak motive to me when weighed against the motives I gave for mafia not to do it earlier. Hence, I think the main drivers of the wagon, Holyflare and marvellosity, are town, as were their two helpers justanothertownie and Artanis. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 15:58 WaveofShadow wrote: if you want to speak purely in majority terms, simply the fact that 8 people voted for Vivax and that there are only 3 scum means it IS a town-driven wagon. my ninja | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I am going to keep on with my analysis, because I think it makes sense, and I want to solve the game. You can pout in the corner about how mad I make you and how you don't want to play with me, and then point the finger if you are town and we end up losing because of me, if you want, but if you are town, then in the end we win or lose together. If you want to win, then you're going to have to live with it, because I'm not going to change the way I play the game to appease you. I've got a game to win, and I don't care if you're on my side or not, I'm not going to let you stand in my way. If you have something to contribute then by all means go ahead, but I don't have time for the insults and the whining. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Regarding the other two, I can see Haru as a reasonable lynch, although he's second on the list for me after Obi. Haru feels a little more sincere to me. I could kill either but I want Obi first. I understand where you (and some others) have been coming from re: Poofter but I'm pretty sure he's town. Call it a gut read I guess, I don't even have scum priors so I can't really speak to much authority on this point, but he just seems too carefree to be scum. You look at the stuff that he's done like the BMK reads, and sure it's something scum could plausibly do, but I feel like it's not something scum think to do, if that makes sense. I could be projecting because I know I get super serious when I play scum, but it's just difficult to be relaxed and do silly shit like that when you're constantly trying to avoid scrutiny. Remember the boring tell you cited earlier? I don't think Poofter has been boring at all. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Any of that sound right to you? In particular lets lynch Obi, ja? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Phone posting sux | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
(All the married women be like "AMEN") | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
You can't see them both town? It's not that uncommon to be off track d1. See: last game where both Slamroot (lmao this is saved on my phone) and Harubear were town. I like to think we were on track at some point but it wouldn't surprise me if not. Last turn was hard | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Hf what you think of Obi/me and Obi argument/my thought process on Vivax wagon/whatever else | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I'm kinda there too now that I look at my list. If there's one it's Haru IMO but I'm not sure | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I mean do you buy which people I call town and which null/scum? There were eight people on it after all, plenty of room to disagree | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Part of why Obi's "Vivax lynch was bad because confusion" thing didn't sit with me. Yeah it fucked up what might be a scum lynch, but that d1 wasn't so bad. I don't think it added any confusion, actually gave more answers than questions for me | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Scum motive: ??? Could have stayed Adkins and blamed timezone | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I meant afk | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Henceforth I will be going Adkins instead of going afk | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 19:17 Holyflare wrote: Scum motive: be where all the cool ppl are I guess but if I'm scum I take the free wasted mislynch and go Adkins Not like he looks any better for hopping on Vivax's dick and doin a full split Or that he would look worse for being Adkins due to time zone | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 19:19 Holyflare wrote: But if he's town then hiw does he know the wagon needs more votes? For him to know that much he'd have to be reading and then he coukd have posted something but he didn't Hypo: You wake up 10mins before deadline and check voting thread in majority lynch. You see this shit happening. What do you do? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 19:20 Holyflare wrote: Alternatively mafia chat says quick. Haru dying need more votes on vivax and he does it and they are both mafia Yes and I will go home to a Ukrainian model making me a shrimp chimichanga for breakfast I would love it but I don't believe in miracles | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I remember his cases on d1 from webdiplomacy. Same style as his Haru case. I got that good vibe from him early too mon If we lunch b/t other d1 wagons tomorrow then we get Haru IMO | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Man where the other squares at Holyflare did you ever find gobble's justification for switching? I remember seeing it and not thinking it was weird but lol @ going to find it on my phone | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 19:48 Holyflare wrote: I'm almost sure he said he was sleeping 4 hours before that or something too so unless he got 4 hours sleep and conveniently woke up at deadline i think he's probably lying  This should be good | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
There's just a fire missing in your play that was burning bright and hot last game. Anyone else that was in that game can probably back me up on it. You played pretty tough and were unafraid to challenge people on anything. Hell, our first interaction in that game, you called me out for trying to seed your ML after Slamroot. Never mind whether that was true or not; the point is that you were completely fearless in your assertions. In retrospect, it was pretty obvious that you were town, and I should have read it much earlier. Your play's just really different here. There's a meek deference when you're interacting with most people. You've been getting scumread by a lot of people, and while you are doing something to resist it, the fire's just not there like it was before. Something's just off. My first thought on it is that part of your passionate defenses of yourself when you're town come from the ironclad knowledge that you're town, and the added fervor that comes from knowing you're right; and thus that the fire's missing in your defense this time because you're mafia, you know you are, and you can't generate the same righteous indignation that you have when you're innocent and accused of being guilty. But that's not the only explanation that fits, and there are townsided explanations that fit. So, before I try to get you lynched, if there's a townsided explanation for this, please tell me what's up. You can say that you don't have to appease me and don't want to deal with it, and that's fine, but you know from our other game that I can get people to support a lynch I want, and I think you and I both would be better off just working with me on this question instead of trying to play hardball with this talk of appeasement. Okay? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I already feel better about it, but if you can help me out with this concern anyway that would go a long way. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
FWIW I think you're really on-point with obi and it makes me feel better about you. marv/hf are y'all still of the mind that we definitely had a scum b/t Haru and gobble? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
i thought i remembered you saying otherwise but maybe i'm mixing it up | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
do you think obi is town or do you think he is scum? i thought we agreed that gobble was more likely town which means either haru is scum or neither is scum you said nothing about your view on haru changed and you said you think there's a scum b/t haru and gobble if haru is scum and claiming to scumread obi then obi is ???? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
![[image loading]](http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111118857/3847442-0924614261-BprgG.gif) | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
two things re: gobble... 1. I realized when I reread his Haru case and reexamined the webdip game that his case is written in the same style here as his cases were there. Gobble is very confident and to-the-point when he writes his cases, and he tends to present the strongest possible case he can against the targets he picks out for a lynch. They can come across as being unfair (which I think Vivax called him out on, maybe others too? can't remember who exactly, sorry) or one-sided, and sometimes they are. But especially given his claim that this is his second town game online, ever (and I believe that claim), and first on TL, I'm not surprised by it. There's a tendency among newer players to do point-by-point analyses where they find scummy behavior in everything the target does. Gobble doesn't quite go that far, but I feel like that tendency is there and that it's easy to misread as scum overselling a case. 2. His check-in trying to get his vote switched at deadline makes much more sense to me from a townie POV than a scummy one. Remember that Gobble was Adkins the whole time leading up to the lynch, due to time zones. The incentive from a town POV to try to get a vote switch in at deadline is obvious: he thought we were going to a no-lynch and voted to avoid it. But as scum, he had a perfectly plausible out to look at the game at deadline, see that it was probably going to a no-lynch, and not make any posts to indicate that he was online. Announcing his presence actually caught him some fire from Holyflare, I think, for ninja voting and then leaving. That's somewhat risky for scum, and more importantly, it's taking a risk for a negative payout, because if he doesn't do anything, town no-lynches instead of lynching, and loses a mislynch. The logical play for scum to make in his shoes is not to try to get a vote in before deadline to avoid an NL. That doesn't mean he wouldn't subvert that expectation as scum, but it does mean that the more reasonable explanation for his play there is that he is town. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Fine. I can see you're not going to listen to my words. Maybe getting lynched again will open up those ears. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
dude is going in | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 23:32 kushm4sta wrote: link the wedip game? ITS IN MY FILTER LOLOLOLOL Just for you, my friend. http://webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?viewthread=1129589#1129589 God bless you trying to read it btw. I love webdip (I'm a mod there) but our forum is not conducive to mafia. We try tho... | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
why wouldn't scum want a no-lynch? they would love to reduce the # of mislynches they need to force by 1 without giving us a flip and who cares if Vivax hard scumread him? that doesn't mean anything for his alignment since that wasn't the reason he voted Vivax off | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 23:48 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Therein lies the problem. I felt like I was choosing to vote between two towns. Are you asking me to lynch you? Why did you put yourself in that situation by pointedly refusing to push your scumread(s) in a remotely convincing way? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 23:49 kushm4sta wrote: Scum have a huge desire to be present at EoD, just not be active. He wanted to see if he was getting lynched. Why wouldn't scum want a no lynch?? Because lynching town is better than lynching no one for scum. Who cares if vivax hard scumread him? That just gives him more incentive to want vivax dead. he didn't have time to be active when he checked in afaik. hell his vote switch failed because he was too late. why would scum even bother? as for whether that's better or not, i'm not convinced it is necessarily. and that's not even a knock on Vivax's play to say scum would prefer him alive than dead. but he had been a controversial player throughout d1 and I could totally see scum valuing the potential distraction power of a living controversial target, and preventing his d1 flip, more than they feared his contributions. it's not clear cut your last point is silly, you have to assume gobble is scum for it to be a valid point toward him being scum. town!gobble has no reason to value killing a townie more just because that townie hard scumreads him. i don't think you're being very objective about this lynch, kush | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 23:50 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I had a valid excuse to never show up but I stuck it out and was very vocal about what I was thinking. You are making shit up as you go, I swear. you were very vocally bitching and moaning about the game state while doing nothing to move it elsewhere | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 23:51 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Because I wasn't convinced that either of them were scum. no fuck. i'm asking why you let it get there in the first place. you had two days to find and push a better case and you chose to spend most of the day telling us to vote marv because ~~Reasons~~. you end up dropping this and picking up no alternative, spending your time instead whining about "all the tryhards" in the game to justify your pointed noninvolvement, and then after someone flips town you've spent the rest of the evening talking about how it was soooo scum-driven, except by "talking" i mean you just keep repeating this assertion and saying that ~~Scum~~ were pushing it without saying who or making a case for them, and just calling me an idiot and shouting down my perfectly coherent and reasonable arguments for it being town-driven | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 23:57 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I guess the part where I yelled about not switching to Vivax doesn't count. no, it doesn't, since you didn't want to kill anyone else that was viable, and did nothing beforehand to make someone you wanted to kill viable. do you honestly not understand this? townies find people they think are scum and try to get them lynched. scum stall and try to find reasons not to push things because pushing things = engagement = more opportunities to fuck up and get caught. you better hope to god holyflare has something convincing to say about your innocence like he implied earlier because you're easily the best target right now in my eyes | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 23:58 kushm4sta wrote: eden im not saying that his vote switch is evidence that he's scum. I'm just saying it's not evidence that he is town, because there is plenty of scum motivation for doing exactly what he did. So this is from his towngame, right? what scum motivation is that? check a few pages back, marv and I talked about it and concluded the more reasonable answer is that gobble is town - might help you get a reference for where I'm coming from and yeah that's a case, I was actually thinking about the case he makes on WardenDresden later on though | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
so again, gobble didn't try to lynch Vivax because Vivax scumread him, as far as we can know. he moved his vote at the last second to try to prevent a no-lynch. you're assuming a motivation that you can't prove at all to advance this argument and the other stuff: town has a motivation to avoid a no-lynch as well, obviously, that's why we lynch at all. him wanting a lynch instead of a no-lynch isn't scummy. you said earlier that you were arguing that it doesn't make him town; never mind that i disagree, why are you now arguing that it's affirmatively scummy, instead of that it's not affirmatively town? the Vivax meta thing i'm not personally familiar with so can't comment, but is gobble even aware of this meta? i guess his teammates could make him aware of it, which is akin to something holyflare said earlier. this doesn't really strike me as a great reason either, because then you could argue that anyone trying to lynch someone who's reputed to be good as town is scummy for doing so. which is dumb i guess i'm gonna need to go look back at gobble's case on haru again to see if i'm wrong, i don't remember seeing the misinterpretations you're talking about. or at least it didn't seem any different from the webdip cases, would probably be a better way to put it but kush at this point everything else is you taking onesided explanations of gobble's behavior without giving fair or due consideration to the other side. i can appreciate you arguing that him being around at EOD like he was isn't a town lean but i can't understand how you can conclude it's a scum lean | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
nor do i see the misinterpretations you're alleging. in fact in your original post quoting these alleged misinterpretations, you straight up just call them misinterpretations without any elaboration at all. can you do that now? or if i missed a later elaboration please point me to it? ty | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
not familiar with his recent track record and also don't care, i'm not in leap-of-faith mode so i'm not planning to take one. why are you in leap-of-faith mode anyway? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 00:28 marvellosity wrote: why not? if someone's in good form and is convinced someone is mafia, that's kinda compelling. i get tons of lynches through like that. sheeping good skill to have tbh. because you should be trying to find something compelling yourself. come on, now. i guarantee you didn't get that belt by sheeping to victory | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 00:28 kushm4sta wrote: Read the bolded closely. GD is making it seem like Haru is making an association case between artanis and whoever. When Haru's reason for suspecting artanis actually had nothing to do with associations. maybe you could not snip pertinent parts of his post when you try to interpret it... right before that he points out that Haru was sheeping: On August 05 2014 22:53 gobbledydook wrote: Here he sheeps on Artanis. The post before the vote he says something really vague that isn't even necessarily correct. Then he votes Artanis without any reason other than basically other people voted too. No attempt to substantiate the vote. If he were trying to scumhunt would he not have a better reason than 'Artanis is close to someone I think is suspicious'? I thought mafia generally avoid associating with each other? The conclusion therefore, is he's just voting so he can put his vote somewhere. gobble is assessing the only reason Haru gave, which Haru did in fact give - that Arty felt scummy for buddying someone suspicious. this isn't a misinterpretation at all | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 00:30 marvellosity wrote: why should I be? because you're not a useless donkey jabroni | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 00:34 Onegu wrote: Holyflare is scum. Just the way he jumps on certain things gives me feelings he is scum then either drops it of if someelse talks about he keeps going. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
i'm just not seeing what he's seeing at all, and i know we talked about this earlier. frankly it's really frustrating that you're supposedly so good but not putting any legwork in yourself right now | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 00:40 marvellosity wrote: I don't know, but I know that when I am totally convinced someone is mafia they always turn mafia, and kush has been finding mafia left right and centre recently, so his certainty has earned my vote. Being a good or competent townie isn't necessarily about doing shit yourself all the time. i know it's not, i'm not saying it is. but there's a difference between "doing shit yourself all the time" and "not doing anything." someone has to produce the material for others to sheep. if you're gonna sheep kush cause he's been on fire lately, fine, but there's still two other mafia to find. why rest on the laurels of one? and that's assuming gobble is scum, of which i'm not at all convinced | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
if you've done fucktons this game, how is it that you ended up with nothing from it? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 00:51 kushm4sta wrote: Not sure what you are getting at here. Haru thought Artanis was scummy for buddying someone suspicious. Gobbles says that makes no sense because scum wouldn't buddy scum. But Haru does not imply that scum is buddying scum. He says that artanis is buddying some who LOOKS scummy. that strikes me as a really meaningless distinction. can you explain for me why that's a meaningful enough distinction not only to warrant calling the missing of that distinction a misinterpretation, but a willful one? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 00:51 marvellosity wrote: How come you ask the most pointless questions in the universe? not a pointless question. you clearly haven't done fucktons if you have nobody you want to kill without sheeping someone else | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 00:55 marvellosity wrote: you don't understand the game of mafia at all, do you i don't understand what you've done in this game of mafia if you sincerely have no leads i asked for this, you're being stupidly combative in response. why? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 00:57 marvellosity wrote: it's not like you spend 1 hour you get 1 mafia, you spend 2 hours you get 2 mafia you can spend 10 minutes and find 2 mafia, or you can spend 8 hours and catch 0 mafia. In this game the guy with fucktons of effort is either wrong or useless, and the guy with no effort is town MVP. doesn't matter. i'm not asking you to show me the scum corpses you've strung up. i'm asking you to show me the guys you'd like to string up. mafia leads, not caught mafia. why is that such an unpalatable request? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 01:01 marvellosity wrote: why does it matter? are you going to scumread me for telling you to go away? if you are, go for it. if not, leave me alone. either situation means you stop asking me these mindnumbingly tedious questions. the questions will continue until morale improves i don't believe that you can: 1. be town 2. have zero leads 3. be satisfied with that especially for someone who's supposed to be a lock n1 kill. wtf happens if you're nk'd, kush is wrong and we ml gobble? your sole contribution to the game will have been to sheep two mislynches. you cannot possibly convince me you're okay with that | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
what are your leads? if you don't have any, why are you content not to do anything about it? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 01:05 justanothertownie wrote: Whatever dude. I can't imagine that you will really act like this all day 2 so maybe we should all just stop this pointless argument. what? no make him fucking do something if he's town he won't act like this d2 because he'll be dead d2 | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 01:05 marvellosity wrote: ok the reason i said to be online now, was because i wanted to see what haru would do, at least somewhat unpressured, today before he went to sleep. as in, if he hadn't done anything by now, he would have avoided the thread all day having avoided the lynch. That's also why I told Holy to shut up when he was talking about Haru and his activity. But Haru did show up and quite a bit of what he posted sounded ok. That was the 5 hour thing - when 5 hours passed, Haru's day was passed and he would have gone to bed. ...that's it? i mean, don't get me wrong, that's better than obstinate nothingness, but... surely you have something else. yeah? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 01:06 marvellosity wrote: someone who knows me a little better might tell you this is quite unlikely to achieve the desired effects then nothing gets done in the thread due to spam and town loses because you wouldn't answer a simple question who are your leads, and if you have none, why don't you want to do anything about it? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 00:57 justanothertownie wrote: Let me rephrase. I understand what you are doing but I don't understand WHY. I don't know if it is going to help but I will still try convince you that this is horseshit. if you understand what he's doing, feel free to spill it | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 01:09 kushm4sta wrote: The reasons people give for their scumreads usually make up a very small percentage of their filters, but they are the most important parts of their filters by far. Gobbles has this to say about it: According to Gobbles, Haru is suspicious of Artanis because Artanis is buddying with someone Haru thinks is scum. That is not what Haru meant at all though. Haru meant that Artanis is suspicious because he's buddying someone he should have been skeptical of. That major misrepresentation, one that I doubt town would ever make, is the only specific reason gobbles gives for voting Haru. ok, i see how that's a misinterpretation, but i don't see how it's "a major misrepresentation, one that i doubt town would ever make." think about it, you just had to explain to me how it's a misinterpretation. meaning that i, too, interpreted it the same way gobble did. am i scum? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 01:10 justanothertownie wrote: Well, it seems like he is sheeping his townread. What more can I say. forget i asked | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 01:12 Holyflare wrote: So let's continue where we left off that being | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
imma wait for him to finish catching up and see where he stands before i worry about it. but go ahead in the meantime | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 01:15 marvellosity wrote: the thing is, Eden can't possibly believe i'm mafia after my play so far this game, and he can't possibly believe i'm mafia for acting like a stubborn child. so he's basically just annoyed that i'm not doing what he thinks i should be doing, which is pointless. i totally fucking can believe the latter, don't think it hasn't crossed my mind. you're right about the former and the former carries a lot more weight with any rational human being but it has nothing to do with me. how does not having any leads and not trying to find anymore, being content instead to rest on a self-described leap-of-faith sheep read onto one scum when there are three to catch, constitute what you should be doing as a townie? like objectively that does not advance your win con if you're just pushing my buttons i've got a deal for you so please if that's it just say so now | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 01:22 marvellosity wrote: lynching mafia advances my wincon, and evidently right now i think sheeping kush is my best chance at lynching mafia QED false dilemma. the choice is not "sheep kush" vs "find more leads." you can do both and a townie should do both if they both advance your wincon unless finding more leads somehow doesn't advance wincon... that's a tough sell, can you do it? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 01:24 marvellosity wrote: i'm so glad eden is here to teach me how to play town don't know what i'd do without him well, you know, those who can't do... why are you doing this? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 01:25 kushm4sta wrote: I don't think you interpreted it the same way Gobble did. Just because the misrepresentation is hard to recognize doesn't make it likely for town to make it. Eden, when you read that you thought Haru was saying that artanis is scummy for buddying scum? oh never mind, no i didn't. LOL i maintain that it's a reasonable mistake for town to make though. i had to think it through a little bit | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 01:30 kushm4sta wrote: On top of that, there is no scum hunting idea in gobbles filter that sticks out as "wow it would be hard for scum to think of that." i'd have to reread, but i do think i agree with this | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
about how much longer would you like to? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
i can go look at his filter again. while i'm doing that, how about giving me a non-gobble lead? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
i can't not laugh at that | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
i can't make myself pretend uninterested in the question so you quit screwing with me | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
but i'm glazing over gobble's filter. i'll try it again later. maybe you can give me a meta pointer instead of a lead? which one of onegu or holyflare is exaggerating more about onegu's ability/inability to read holyflare | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
new list don't kill: marv hf kush me haru one jat might kill: poof wave would kill: gobble gk obi not in order | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I request the addition of the Showdown Mafia "duel" mechanic | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 04:17 justanothertownie wrote: Ok. Please tell me how to read HF then. Sheep me he is scum Based Marv. Please give me thy blessing | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
"I know I got to be right now Cause I can't get much wronger Man I been waitin all night now That's how long I've been on ya" | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 06:05 Holyflare wrote: If this is true everything you've said all nigjt has been a complete lie. Your 8 step bs, your argument with obi, your statements. All bs. I don't think you understand what the word "lie" means, which isn't a shock considering that you've misrepresented other people's statements throughout the game too I've had these reservations, I just ignored them because I felt like they didn't add up. I fucking talked about this already lmao http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463513-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-iii?page=96#1908 Your desperation is showing | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 06:25 kushm4sta wrote: ok HF how did vivax lie? i'm divorcing poofter and marrying you instead $20 says Vivax didn't lie since he flipped town gg | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
This whole game has been full of bad play dude, mine most of all. I've been calling the Vivax lynch dumb since the moment I realized it happened and if I'd been around at EOD I would have tried to fight it. What kind of argument is this, anyway? "People listened to me therefore it's good?" Nah people listening to it makes it convincing Marv sheeped you cause he was mad at Vivax for being a dick and felt something you said had merit and then a bunch of people sheeped Marv cause he's Marv. S h r u g. Yep, I changed my mind about the wagon, too bad so sad. What'd you want me to do, keep sticking with an angle that wasn't giving me any answers? I'm sure that would help town | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
it didn't gg I hate armchair quarterbacks but it really needs to be said, the Vivax lynch was bad. I'm actually kinda amazed that Holyflare actually tried to defend himself with "If my arguments were so bad why'd they convince people to follow me?" when anyone who's been around mafia for a while knows that your arguments don't have to be good to be convincing. If they did scum would never win | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 06:36 Holyflare wrote: What terrible stuff are you spouting? I'm saying you're scum reading the person making arguments rather than the people who are sheeping those arguments. If they were weak the people sheeping them should be MORE scummy to you than me because they are sheeping bad arguments. Also i brought all the people to consider vivax maybe you shpuld reread. Yes marv switched and everyone else did but before then they were all agreeing with me. Nope, and you know better than this, too. The thread has been suffering from a lack of coherent direction this whole game. We were shitting ourselves the last 24 hours trying to find a majority lynch target. Especially when not getting a majority = no lynch, I'm not shocked, at all, that townies would sheep a mediocre or even bad case to get somewhere. Haru was the lead wagon for the final few hours of the game, but then people started getting spooked about it, no surprise at all that townies freak out and move. No reason to find the sheep any more or less suspicious than the shepherd. And it's you that I've had an issue with. Vivax didn't lie. The force of your arguments is wildly disproportionate to the soundness of your reads imo. It's not just that you're pushing something you nominally believe, it's that you're pushing it further and more stringently than I would expect a townie to do. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 06:52 Holyflare wrote: Read vivax filter all he does when he mentions me is mention the - 1+1 thing. Lynch All Liars | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Marv, reread Vivax's filter, try very very hard not to get mad at Vivax being mean at the end, and tell me honestly that Holyflare is being honest or correct in summarizing Vivax's posting. He's not. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 07:12 Holyflare wrote: Who uses exaggerations? Mafia does. Lmao you realize you exaggerated the shit out of your point on Vivax to get him lynched right? Fuck I'm gonna give you a chance to revisit that when you're on a computer. I refuse to believe you actually slipped and assume you just worded that badly because you're on your phone and typing on a phone blows. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
No I mean Aite I might have misread you but what I mean is it looked like you were getting on his case for just defending himself like it's shady If I'm misreading, my bad | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Do you understand what I'm saying here? I really do want to revisit the point you're trying to make here when you're at a computer and can spell it out more, because the way you put it flat-out incriminates yourself and so I'm forced to assume you don't mean what you were trying to say the way you said it. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 07:24 justanothertownie wrote: This whole +1-1 thing needs to stop. This garbage argument exists since ancient times when philosophers had nothing better to do than ramble all day. I don't think there will ever be anything useful that comes out of this. Thank you, Great Arbiter Of Discussion Please endow me with your Most Holy Wisdom and transcribe upon the arteries of my still-beating heart the names of Thy Three Scummiest Enemies | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 07:24 gobbledydook wrote: I just want to ask you all a question. What are you going to do after you mislynch me? Does it help you at all? uh. wtf lol preeeetty sure i've been trying to rally around killing holyflare instead of you | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
i still have a V. Bad Feeling about holyflare and want to kill him, because i still think my whole "i can't figure out who the fuck is scum so i'm probably being played by a godmode player" argument holds water and i'm positive marv is town. plus the mafia passed on shooting standard n1 kills for fuckin kush which means kush was obviously going balls-out this game on scum BUT there's another valid reason for not being able to figure a game out, and it's when scum aren't posting at all... this only happens when quite a few townies aren't being memorable and guess what? that's true this game too! in other words half of you are scum and i want to kill all of you | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 21:10 gobbledydook wrote: so guys how about we lynch poofter Jealous lover sees me eyeing kush, kills him. Motive Established. I like it. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 21:14 HaruRH wrote: no. That wasn't generic if people scurmead me for saying that I was sure 1/3 top 3 townies were scum. And now people turn around and scumread 1/3 of the top 3 townies. who are the top 3 townies iyo | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 21:10 Holyflare wrote: HEY LOOK you're all doing that thing that i explicitly told you not to do today. If you think i am mafia vote for me and don't fucking discuss me discuss other people. I am town and you are wasting your time. I've pointed out poofter and only gd replies with anything useful and the rest of you come back eith generic hf must be scum for nothing crap again instead of actually scum hunting. dude take some vivax and relax er wait no xanax whatever point is i just said (?)i'm not gonna kill you(?) | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
prelim vote on poofter before i actually read anything you guys said while i slept ##VOTE: Tehpoofter | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 21:18 Holyflare wrote: Eden stop picking at useless shit and explain why you town read poofter because he's really done nothing in the entirety of the game ~ Vibes ~ You ninja'd my vote for poofter my friend. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 21:22 Holyflare wrote: Yes so your entire posting at night and your entire posting now has been baseless then. First you scum read me for pushing weak arguments and then you said it's because you felt like you didn't know who mafia was and felt like you were getting plaued. Now you don't even want to kill me because it could just be low volume posters??? ...yeah? so? this game is hard, man, nothing I say ultimately convinces me I'm on the right track tbh I felt most comfy during the night with you as a target, but there's a bazillion reasons not to do it that keep nagging at me. "he'll get nightkilled eventually!" "look at all these other far more useless fucks to kill" "you're gonna feel like a dumbass if the scumteam is goodkarma/poofter/gobble and you go bury holyflare for nothing" etc. i'm throwing around as many realistic possibilities as i can think of to see what sticks with other people and what sticks with me | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
but i seriously have like... what one living person in my "yep definitely town" pile right now sorry, can't help it, this game is gonna be hard until we catch a mafia and then you'll probably see me go back to ass-kicking mode from melee mini mafia after that | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Sp0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0ky Haru please give me those townies you talked about again and also tell me what you think happened d1 | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Now I can play better without tinfoiling. Thank the Based God We're killing Poofter today, I just looked at his filter and realized he said nothing of substance in two calendar days which is just so appalling. Fucking ridiculous. I think I already voted him so I'll do that again if I didn't. I don't really want to kill gobble OR Haru today but I feel better about Haru if we end up deciding between the two. There's just something missing from his posts that would make them make sense to me. Like his thoughts are a little disjointed in just the right way for me to have trouble following the thought process underlying his posts. It kinda looks like somebody who's just replying to individual items posed to him for their own sake, as opposed to replying to them as a means toward getting to a meaningful conclusion. In Diplomacy he'd be the guy making one-center stabs into all his neighbors' territories, like a jackrabbit jumping around all random kinda places. I don't see the evolving picture of the game state that I would expect a townie to have. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I would expect a townie to have done more to distinguish himself by now | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Here's why that actually matters Remember how I played Nomic to start the game? I stopped once it gave me something worth talking about, and I stopped it because I started talking about something worth while. I think that's a townie thing (obviously but ignore that I know who I am) because it's something fun and loose to open the game that draws a lot of attention (townie traits) and then segues into trying to figure out the game Or that game where Holyflare hosted Scooby Doo Mafia in the middle of an actual mafia game. Same idea. HF runs with it long enough to get people involved and talking and then drops it and solves the game. Super townie. Poofter's BMK thing? He throws it out there a couple times but then when a couple other players try to run with it and develop it he... drops it completely wtf. And then doesn't do anything at all to figure out the game. That just looks like scum trying something lulzy to look townie and then Adkins into the sunset | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Marv lend me thy sword so that I might stick He Who Is Of Poof with it | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 02:45 WaveofShadow wrote: I feel like I should be convinced by now but I'm not. that's the point for me when i look at poofter here in a game like this where no one is jumping out at me as 100% scum i shouldn't be looking at anyone's filter and going "wow this guy is a total coinflip" | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
superb followup | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
but really why'd you drop me like a rock as soon as i said yes? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 03:41 Tehpoofter wrote: What? You're still my boo. Where'd I drop you? O.o On August 06 2014 05:33 Eden1892 wrote: ~ Thirteen Is A Holy Number ~ ##UNVOTE: HaruRH ##VOTE: ObiWanShinobi I keep wavering so I'm just going to kill the guy who pointedly does not give a shit about figuring anything out and sort the rest out tomorrow. Poofy you need to get online and help me kill him. Everyone else should too. On August 06 2014 06:00 Eden1892 wrote: poofter where are you why did you stop returning my calls you won't even open my texts the quicktopic is so lonely On August 06 2014 11:54 Eden1892 wrote: has anyone heard from poofter? i'm changing the locks On August 06 2014 14:26 Eden1892 wrote: bby dont leave like that. also do you think we had two scum wagons? that sounds like the implication in your post, which is... interesting, i have to think about what that implies about the vivax cfd On August 08 2014 01:13 Eden1892 wrote: And I don't mind dropping the BMK thing because he did. Like I tried running with it even to see what he would do with it and he dropped it like a rock! Here's why that actually matters Remember how I played Nomic to start the game? I stopped once it gave me something worth talking about, and I stopped it because I started talking about something worth while. I think that's a townie thing (obviously but ignore that I know who I am) because it's something fun and loose to open the game that draws a lot of attention (townie traits) and then segues into trying to figure out the game Or that game where Holyflare hosted Scooby Doo Mafia in the middle of an actual mafia game. Same idea. HF runs with it long enough to get people involved and talking and then drops it and solves the game. Super townie. Poofter's BMK thing? He throws it out there a couple times but then when a couple other players try to run with it and develop it he... drops it completely wtf. And then doesn't do anything at all to figure out the game. That just looks like scum trying something lulzy to look townie and then Adkins into the sunset | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 03:49 Tehpoofter wrote: just cause I don't talk to you for a day doesn't mean i want to break up! doesn't it though that's what my last ex said | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
you have no idea for real though one day absence in mafia is a bit of a big deal. y u no care about game | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
no i mean even if he rolled scum he was town in melee mini unless he played 2 mafia games in the 3 weeks in-between? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 04:26 Tehpoofter wrote: I'll just say this to my bbygirl eden. i know you don't trust me but my love never faded. Divorce is something I don't want. Come back to me. I'll give you the black plastic card in my wallet and let you go wild!! you are LITERALLY trying to buy me back | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 05:45 Tehpoofter wrote: The meaning is do you think that kush was the most townie player in the game. Its a great question. One I asked myself about kushm17sta. Illuminating. and probably not even true tbh, I'm as townie as he was as is marv | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
No peeking at the filter or the thread, as soon as you see this post it. I know you're online so if you don't answer in 5 minutes from this being posted then I'm going to assume you don't have one. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 05:54 WaveofShadow wrote: Lol Eden now I don't think you're reading the thread I never read the thread Poofter not only did I give you 2x as much time I also saw you post in the thread in the interim. ![[image loading]](http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/615-dayum-shame.jpg) | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 06:03 WaveofShadow wrote: Eden he posted a short summary of his goobly thing like a page ago or something in response to when i asked him like the same thing I was trying to put him on the spot because a townie wouldn't have to go look up his rationale again. Poofter's responses look rehearsed in the thread of late. They're not devil-may-care free-flowing like they were earlier. But the scared little wuss didn't even play. Smh. What are we gonna do about obi btw he's not playing | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Rereading | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 06:13 Tehpoofter wrote: 1) Shit accusation of me that was scummy for multiple reasons I immediately pointed out 2) Very pure wagon on him Me you Kush Vivax really close to EoD Maifa could have hoped on that ez pz 3) He was around at EoD but didn't talk and had time to vote though. Weird and shit. 4) His contributions haven't been anything to note imo In order: • I found the case you made. It's ok I guess, I find myself shrugging but at the same time I can't actually argue against it. • Big question though. Why would they? Haru was the lead wagon at/around EOD. Unless Haru is also scum there's no incentive for the mafia to piledrive him at EOD. Plus even if they did, gobble flipping town would point the finger squarely at the people who sheeped onto him instead of the people that drove him. • That wasn't my impression of the sequence of events though... • Sure and it's a reason to kill him, but it's a reason to kill half the game right now, which is why I'm having trouble with this. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 06:21 Tehpoofter wrote: I think its interesting to see what people think and I actually think its an uncomfy question for mafia to answer cause they know probably why and don't want to make up a reason or if they're proud of why they're eager to answer and look smart Except for the part where the reflexive answer for anybody playing this game is something to the extent of "I don't know cause I haven't thought about it cause I'm town" I would agree | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Everyone bw me onto Obi ##UNVOTE: Tehpoofter ##VOTE: ObiWanJabroni | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
That and I don't buy him fronting about ragequitting | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 07 2014 05:41 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Am super down for a gobble lynch. Way better than the Vivax lynch yesterday. Wait why didn't I call this out earlier??? This dude was complaining about how gobble was a terrible lynch d1 and how he hated being forced to choose between gobble and Haru, then he's super down for a gobble lynch??? Wtf | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 23:19 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I had trouble voting because I wasn't sure if I wanted Haru or GD On August 06 2014 23:48 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Therein lies the problem. I felt like I was choosing to vote between two towns. On August 06 2014 23:51 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Because I wasn't convinced that either of them were scum. On August 07 2014 05:41 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Am super down for a gobble lynch What changed? And why is there no explanation of that already? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 07:06 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I feel like gd would better. I took a look at what kush was saying and saw merit to it and how GD operates as scum. I feel like this Haru lynch is just us lynching Haru for being Haru. I know he said some idiotic things but idk, it feels like he's playing his towngame like he always does. On August 06 2014 07:15 ObiWanShinobi wrote: As am I. I just looked back over GD's filter and I'm back to not remembering why I scumread him. I think today is just a miss in general. On August 06 2014 07:55 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I'm not flipping. No more flipping for me. We need to pick between Haru/GD and I refuse to consider Vivax until after lynch. Seriously, bandwagon flips are 100% guaranteed to kill town so we need to stop this switch right goddamn now. On August 08 2014 06:34 Eden1892 wrote: What changed? And why is there no explanation of that already? Expanded version. What gives? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
"I think gobble is a better kill than Haru" "I don't remember why I scumread gobble, we're going to miss today" "We're going to miss today, but I refuse to move to someone else because they will certainly flip town" "I wasn't sure which one I wanted to kill" "I felt forced to pick between two towns even though I refused to move" "I wasn't convinced which one was scum" "Let's kill gobble" | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 06:40 Tehpoofter wrote: you think thats the case? I'd be pretty easy to toss scum on vivax got lynched so enough town thought he was mafia so like They could have easily jumped on. Mafia is always going to jump on a lynch and I agree on Haru. I'm okay with flipping him today if he flips scum that could be INSANELY good information if he flips town then not as much info but still info. It wasn't a case btw it was a brief synopsis. What was your impression cause thats what I got from being there. The 4th is a reason to compound upon the first 3. For what Its worth I think the Obi lynch is dumpster tier. I assume this is the case: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463513-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-iii?page=44#874 If it's something else my b pls link Why would mafia "always jump on a lynch"? I actually don't even understand everything after your question "thats the case?" so... I don't know how to reply to this LOL Please restate everything from "I'd be" to "still info." My impression was that he got online near EOD, quickly skimmed to see what was going on because Vivax was the lynch all of a sudden, and then moved vote to avoid an NL. I wasn't online and so normally I would defer, but no one(?) (I think) else has said that gobble was lurking at EOD just that he made a ninja vote at the last second. Idk someone else that was on at EOD (MARV) help me out on this, this just wasn't my impression and if Poof is right here that matters And what's dumpster tier about obi lynch? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
If you're sure both Haru and gobble are town, you switch onto Vivax there every single time without hesitation IMO, worst case is he's also town and you get the same result (an ML), but you have to consolidate there to avoid forcing an NL. You certainly don't say "Well I think Vivax is definitely town so we should figure out which of the two people I just called town we're lynching instead." All that does is hinder consolidation and risk not getting a lynch at all. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 06:53 Tehpoofter wrote: His ease of talking early on seemed townie to me. He didn't seem afraid to post day 1. He also wouldn't give us as much information as someone like Haru or Goobly. Haru being a wagon switched off late yesterday adn Goobly being my biggest scum read (::cough:: I'm totally not impartial ::cough:  On August 08 2014 06:53 Tehpoofter wrote: He also wouldn't give us as much information as someone like Haru or Goobly. On August 08 2014 06:53 Tehpoofter wrote: wouldn't give us as much information ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VNdeuDX.jpg) | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
If Obi is scum, all three D1 wagons are town. He was obviously worried about looking sketchy for hopping on a town wagon late. If one of his teammates were up for a lynch he would already have been pushing to get the other wagon lynched. How's that for information? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 04:12 Eden1892 wrote: marv when will i break into the power rankings | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 06:58 marvellosity wrote: btw I think Haru might be town, based on something experimental i'm doing. Merciful Based God Thank You | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Obi is bad for what I said below. Maybe not dumpster tier but I don't like it. ![[image loading]](http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/gooby+pls_928f38_4075689.jpg) | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 07:01 Tehpoofter wrote: haha that sentence was a train wreck I was typing it between phone calls.I meant to say "It would be ease to throw scum on vivax for a goobly lynch if he was town. (Seeing as vivax already got lynched yesterday enough people thought he was scummy and or an asshole) Then myself who people find scummy thus 2 town mafia could have "framed" for a bad kill on goobly should he actually be town. (I should proof read more) OK maybe, but why couldn't they do that with the Vivax lynch? In fact if this would be so effective why aren't they now? (and if they are, where are they doing it?) You're saying in effect "if gobble were town the mafia could have done X, and therefore since they didn't do X, gobble is definitely scum." You can't consider the original premise a conditional and then extrapolate a guaranteed contrapositive statement like that. This only holds if you're arguing that if gobble were town, the mafia definitely would have done what you're saying they could've done. And I see no reason to assume this. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 07:05 Tehpoofter wrote: That is pretty okay info. What do we learn if Obi flips town though? Aside from that he says weird as shit as town (spoilers he does that) Oh come on, you know my belief on that. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 07:03 Tehpoofter wrote: I'll say that this isn't the worst read ever. I'll see if I can find the today is a miss thing when I'm done with marv. omfg are you even listening?! i will beat your fingers with a roller i just posted it ten minutes ago | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
i'm not evil just frustrated | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Fuck Can I just be given the power to vote for all 11 players in the game right now? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I guess what's more problematic for me regarding your case is that I have in my view taken down the supporting details pretty convincingly. And I feel like the core argument shouldn't be rooted in one post from what, 3 calendar days ago? Like if he were scum there'd be more to it. Maybe that's it? Recency bias a bitch | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
No idea how to define aggressively, I don't consider myself to be "aggressively" on Poofter today at all and I would say I dogged him more than everyone sans HF | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463513-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-iii?page=122#2423 Start reading from there and tell me what you think please | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
~ Thank God I Can Stop Tinfoiling ~ | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 07:46 marvellosity wrote: I think we should actually lynch Onegu, pending me rereading this Obi/Cav mafiagame I rather Obi before I get nightkilled | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
the tl;dr of his filter is lots of complaining about the game state without trying to do anything about it plus he hasn't blown a gasket at me for calling him scum yet that's like super-ultra-top-secret-triple-probationary-towntell for me | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 08:02 justanothertownie wrote: You know damn well that I will not get him lynched if you push for a different target -.- Fine, today we do as you say but let it be known I think this is stupid. don't be a pussy, i've outmuscled these guys before, you can too | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 08:05 Eden1892 wrote: wait why in the world is obi town the tl;dr of his filter is lots of complaining about the game state without trying to do anything about it plus he hasn't blown a gasket at me for calling him scum yet that's like super-ultra-top-secret-triple-probationary-towntell for me rather scumtell had he blown gasket it would be town | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 08:06 Holyflare wrote: But marv why aren't you dead though? You mafia? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I'm staying on Obi | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 08:28 WaveofShadow wrote: I'd actually really like to see this lol marv's cae is compelling but I really don't like how he manages to completely ignore anything haru has said or done Speaking of which where the fuck Whatever the lynch into list makes sense I think Disagree on HF Eden check out melee mini mafia, "outmuscled" is a slight stretch but only slight | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 08:31 Holyflare wrote: Does this make me town yet? it's not overused you're making me overuse it | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
##VOTE: Onegu | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I will deliver The People's Elbow to his jabroni face so bad ![[image loading]](http://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/tumblr_lvb1i6pwa31qgc0j0.gif?w=640) | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 08:33 marvellosity wrote: how does eden still have a longer filter than me wtf u mad brah you should add Post Count Inflation to your repertoire it will expand your filter capacities ~ Observe ~ | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 09:46 Tehpoofter wrote: Marv made a strong case. Then people sheeped him. We can have a lovers quarrell if you want. I forget did we decide you're not scum yet | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
mmmf why are you so nice now? ughh | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 10:14 Tehpoofter wrote: I was always nice i was just gone. Marv calling me an asshole hurt my feelings though. Yo Eden. What do you think about HF? i was tinfoiling hard on him and if this all ends up being wrong and i'm around at lylo i'm going to policy lynch him but i feel like there's no way this all ends up being wrong and he seems town to me | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 10:21 goodkarma wrote: What's going on? I haven't caught up yet but thought I'd post anyway since shitposting's a thing now. marv and I solved the game after realizing we had no chance of winning the belt by holding back anyway since kush already won it | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 10:58 Tehpoofter wrote: And that post count.... mmmmhhhhhmmmm girl you can get it! yo fun fact there's a "variant" mafia game with strict posting restrictions running on the forum i came from... i'm closing in on 2x as many posts in this game as everyone combined has had | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
ayy poofter you votin for onegu yet | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
it's so... weird like why wouldn't you just message a girl and ask her if she's single? the deep questions, man. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 11:45 Tehpoofter wrote: She was crazy yo. Now you have me... and I've been voting onegu since early b4 you bbygirl But i saved you a seat on the wagon. no no this is another girl. who is much saner i don't see your vote on onegu??? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
pussies | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 11:57 Eden1892 wrote: no no this is another girl. who is much saner i don't see your vote on onegu??? ignore me im a retard | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
i retract this. i mean no offense to those with diminished mental capacities, you do not deserve the dishonor of being compared to my idiocy | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I just felt it was marginalizing and unfair to the many productive members of society who fight through various disabilities to compare it to my garbage | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Obi you could tell me why you did a 180 on gobble that'd b cool | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 13:05 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I never had a 180 on Gobble. I voted him and the mass flip to Vivax forced me to switch. He should have fucking died but for some reason we killed Vivax. Check the votelogs from yesterday. wait, you thought gobble was scum? correct me if i'm wrong here please, i'm under a different impression | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 06 2014 07:15 ObiWanShinobi wrote: As am I. I just looked back over GD's filter and I'm back to not remembering why I scumread him. I think today is just a miss in general. On August 06 2014 23:51 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Because I wasn't convinced that either of them were scum. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
we x-posted, like i said my original post on the subject is a little more illuminating | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
my point is that you, well after the rush from the lynch had passed, explicitly said "I'm not convinced they were scum," and then you just said, again after the rush from the lynch had passed, explicitly said "Yes [I thought gobble was scum]." it has nothing to do with how much you wanted to kill them, how gunshy or trigger-happy you may or may not play, none of that. it has everything to do with a direct, undeniable contradiction in your read on gobble that I'm having a hard time reconciling with the idea that you're town. that just doesn't feel like something a townie forgets | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 13:37 ObiWanShinobi wrote: There is no contradiction. Let me try to break this down for you: 1) The lynch is between GD and Haru. I am having difficulty deciding which person I want to lynch. I remain mostly unconvinced of the kush case, so I have trouble picking between the two. 2) Eventually, I finally throw my vote down on GD. I think he is the scummier of the two and throw a vote down on him. 3) Everyone mass flips to Vivax. I demand that they stop doing this and they fucking force me to because a no-lynch was inevitable. 4) I vote Vivax and Poofter votes Vivax. It's easy to look back and see that I was having trouble deciding between the two because I was unconvinced. Looking at the game now, kush was 110% quit-mafia-if-he's-wrong convinced of killing GD. And then kush dies. If I wasn't convinced then, I'm convinced now. I feel like you're equating the fact that I thought GD was scummy with the fact that I was 100% convinced of him being mafia, and I wasn't. That's why I had so much trouble. OK, but then later on you say you're "super down" for a gobble lynch. What changed exactly? If you've already explained this then my bad, please explain again. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I feel like being "super down" with a lynch implies you feel fairly strongly that person is scum. Yes? If so then I do think that's a pretty significant shift in your opinion on gobble compared to your prior posts on him. I'm wondering what changed about the game to account for that shift. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 14:40 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Also, I really like this tone we're setting. Let's keep doing this. omfg this is giving me the WORST vibes lmao it's like blackmail man! "we're talking so nice right now. don't fuck it up by lynching me!" fuck i want to believe so bad that you're town and we're on the same wavelength finally but FUCK if this ain't makin me worried lemme look at this tomorrow aite? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I trust u Cav :OOOOOOO let's make it happen how you feel about voting for Onegu | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
haven't thought about it cause i'm town :OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO0o0o0o0o0o0o i'm just worried a bit because after how much we struggled thru d1 and half of d2, this feels ridiculously easy by comparison | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Sigh. I'm not moving from this wagon but let it be known I got tha mad creepy vibez about how suddenly quiet and easy it got | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
tbh i don't get why a townie would put "welp" like wave did, maybe i'm reading too much into it but in my experience you say "welp" when you're in a "shit happens" situation and you're forced to do something you don't want to do. like busing | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I really don't think he's mafia man... | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
esp. if Onegu does flip scum I'll probably just shut up and sheep that lynch but part of me (pride?) says there's no way I'm wrong about everything what about a third, any ideas? wave?? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Wtf | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
So I can't imagine we're going to switch it up at EOD especially since Onegu despite promising to post hasn't actually done so... Imma be Adkins at EOD in all likelihood. IRL mafia with my crew 2nite I'll check in sometime after EOD tho since I'll prolly be on my phone chatting up that girl instead of paying attention to mafia | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
dude said he'd be around to defend himself... the major window of opportunity to do so has passed... makes me think he's not gonna bother b/c teammates already decided to bus | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 09 2014 02:42 marvellosity wrote: tbh if I was Onegu's gf, I wouldn't be expecting him to play any mafia on my birthday :p i mean me neither lmao i wouldn't hold him to it except that he explicitly said he would despite this... | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
he checked game, saw approaching-unanimous vote count, prolly saw scum qt people saying "aite we gotta bus fam" and said "yea no problem, i rather get laid than defend against marv and friends anyway, glhf sorry i suck" that's what i'd do | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 09 2014 02:45 marvellosity wrote: I get laid so often I'd rather defend a hopeless cause just for something different. BOOM pfft this is your equivalent of getting laid, don't front like you do | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 09 2014 03:23 justanothertownie wrote: And you think this diagram is legit? eh imma b hones id prolly follow it if i didnt feel like marv was obvtown | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 09 2014 03:29 justanothertownie wrote: Do you think it makes sense for Onegu not to feel the same way? my vote wouldn't be on him if i did hey hon. today is boring | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
i've thought it for most of the game but the most memorable example was when the stupid bitch made me argue with him for 10 pages only not to tell me something anyway lmao just felt soooo town. i'm sure marv is capable of doing that as scum but i'm going to play what i consider to be the odds and say he's town for it | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 09 2014 04:46 marvellosity wrote: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/W5V0ZgN.jpg) sorry about your hairline | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 09 2014 05:30 Holyflare wrote: I actually had to reread my filter lol, it's so towny. this is actually the scummiest thing you've said all game fwiw i'm still not killing you tho | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 09 2014 06:09 justanothertownie wrote: Maybe you are better at this game than me but even if I think that Onegu is scum I don't know it. We have very little to go on with him. well sure i just feel like if there were a realistic chance he flips town, the fact that ~no one~ is voting outside of him should be alarming... i guess it's good insurance anyway in case we're wrong | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
but i don't feel as confident in obi as i did before. fuck i should have found an alternate bw when i had the chance | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 09 2014 06:53 Holyflare wrote: And the most laughable thing of all is that you witheld your scum reads and didn't want to post them till after the nighy and it just ended up being a scum read on marv but the only thing you scum read him for was the night kill which now that i actually look at it makes you very very im gonna say 100% mafia Lmfao I forgot about that Ok I don't feel bad anymore | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 09 2014 07:47 Holyflare wrote: ![[image loading]](http://oi59.tinypic.com/23kwugm.jpg) Onegu was caught vivaxing (name pending approval) Lmao | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I should have pushed harder for another lynch. Damn. I'll think about it later tonight | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I never want to hear "this lynch is unanimous because marv is unstoppable" ever again | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Fuck I can't figure this out right now | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I still don't like the "welp" flip from Wave | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
i could honestly just yolo lynch marv and hf right now but it feels like stupid and bad play to be like "hurr durr u drove on a townie therefore u r mafia even tho i 100% sheeped u onto townie" | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 09 2014 23:21 justanothertownie wrote: Maybe. Poofter seems to be way more interested in the newbie game than this one btw. I disagree completely, did you check his filter? He has just over 9 pgs of filter in this game, which started August 3rd. Granted that his filter in the newbie game is significantly longer (16 pgs), but if you actually go back and track it from when this game started (the only fair way to evaluate relative interest in the game), he has only 4 pgs of filter. In fact his participation in the other game dropped off significantly since this game started. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
kush was obviously town but that's not good enough reason to kill him imo. As a rule you kill people you don't think you can get mislynched. That includes not only obvious town in a particular game (kush, me) but players who have a rep for being very difficult to ML (marv, Hf, <?insert others?>). Once you're within that group it's hard to extrapolate but from what I'm hearing from people in multiple games now (OnceKing and I talked about this at some point after Melee Mini Mafia, I want to say somebody else brought it up during MMM, somebody brought it up here), mafia don't actually tend to WIFOM nk's and just gun for people who are on the right track, then kill players with a good rep out of that group next. I buy it from my own observations and until a mafia that isn't run by me actively circumvents this I'll use this heuristic and I'll win with it. Nothing against kush but he decidedly doesn't have marv's or Hf's rep. So to me that means the mafia passing on marv or Hf for kush = kush was on the right track. The two people kush kept getting after were gobbledydook and Holyflare. We can sort out Holyflare at LYLO (read: policy lynch), based on this I would rather try gobbledydook today. I need to go back and see who else kush was on tho | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Direction's important and a lack of direction is a reason not to kill someone, but direction isn't sufficient on its own Still rereading kush's filter I'll figure out what I like out of it | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2014 18:57 marvellosity wrote: Poofter might be mafia according to my heuristic that I'm not telling any of you about right now. I'd probably kill both Artanis and Poofter right now. Wave hasn't showed me anything in particular that I want to lynch, other than what I mentioned. Most of the arguments levelled against him I've seen levelled against him on more than one occasion as town, they're just not very interesting to me yet. He's just null ##Vote: Artanis gobbledy actually said the basic reason for Artanis to be mafia. Very low contributions so far despite posting some. I've not made proper reads yet and I've probably contributed more than he has. I also think given the preamble, Artanis would at least try to play a decent game as town. Let's see. hey marv how do you feel about this post? just found it in kush's filter. we ended up lynching Artanis's slot, so is that heuristic still alive and well? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 10 2014 03:46 Holyflare wrote: I want people that aren't me, eden, jat, marv to make some pitches about who is mafia and why I also agree w/dis altho I want marv to post reads before the end of the night in case he gets shot | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
vote: wos | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Marv is the 3rd scum if he doesn't get shot tonight obviously | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I'm hopping off with my pot o gold | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Probably wouldn't tbh OK let's just kill Wave then | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Did you actually read the thread before you made that post? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 10 2014 07:22 Holyflare wrote: Well just follow my list Kill everyone but me marv and jat? That's a lot of kills bro | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
aight it's ok holyflare and i gonna run shit now we gave you a two-day head start, scum, prepare yourselves the New World Order is here ##VOTE: WaveofShadow | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 10 2014 08:08 Holyflare wrote: i think our best bet today is a gd lynch tbh ##vote gobbledy it's ok two godmode players two wagons gives us options, we can consolidate on the better wagon at/near EOD | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
i'm cleaning out old shit in my room atm | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 10 2014 08:14 Holyflare wrote: the pool we're lynching between that decided it was best to say absolutely nothing for over 24 hours hey Hf i think i found a flaw with our brilliant plan of waiting for people who refuse to talk to start talking | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
FUCK | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Chop chop fo I lynch you | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Haru why you mad tho. As a neutral observer it seems a little sudden? Not like FAKE sudden just "whoa what had happen" sudden Wave isn't lynch today | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Poofter or gobble best kills today & I'm fine with either. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Sure Town: Eden, Holyflare, justanothertownie, ObiWanShinobi Not-Sure Town: goodkarma, HaruRH, WaveofShadow Probably Not Town: gobbledydook, Tehpoofter I'm one townread away from POEing the game whooooo Y'all seem pretty sure on goodkarma, too. Someone give me a reason why? I don't do meta | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
POE time leggo | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I'll check and see what you mean | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 10 2014 22:22 Eden1892 wrote: Without looking I bet he was active in the scum QT. In melee mini mafia he was pretty inactive itt but bounced a lot of ideas off of me in mason QT I'll check and see what you mean OK I looked at one* page of each filter and I see the difference already. I think I'm with y'all here. *: lolololol there was only one page to look at gg! | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Idk about Haru I played one game and he was more invested despite deliberately lurking / being scummy as a parity cop. No real priors | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 05:55 Tehpoofter wrote: I want to get a dialect going since I haven't been around as much to interact I want to interact and read you because I feel like I don't have a very solid one about you. I understand what you mean on the goobly and you thing (I think?) I appreciate your defense of me though  It didn't seem like you were still on that track when you were talking a bit ago thus why I asked where you stood. Post looks like scum talking to scum for fake interactions, unless Wave has a GOOD reply (ie something to townread over) they're scum | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 11 2014 02:40 justanothertownie wrote: Why do you think gobble is town suddenly? If people try a little they are actually more often scum than if they do nothing at all. I still think they are both good lynches though. I didn't say that just think Poofter is more likely to be scum Although if Poofter is town then we're at MYLO if he's modkilled... | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 11 2014 02:52 justanothertownie wrote: That is true. I think both are fairly scummy. I just think there could be a reason for the kush kill and he said he would quit mafia forever if gobble isn't scum. I know that is a weak reason but hey. Ugh I'm just nervous I guess If he's scum his teammates probably won't let him be modkilled... But we can force them to work for it Ok I'll switch | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 11 2014 03:36 Holyflare wrote: Also I'm not going to take that association as there's a more than high chance they are both mafia together despite their attacks on each other just from the way they have played Eh I guess, town hasn't pushed a lot of lynches this game relative to activity levels so you could get away with hard busing easier. I just think Occam's Razor comes in here especially since we ignored it last time with unanimous Onegu lynch to our detriment | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Poofter has to go today tbh it's just I think he gets modkilled. If he comes back we're piling on him right? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Whatever as long as Poofter goes down today we have time to sort out any tinfoiling And honestly Hf trying too hard with apathetic town | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Suck yourself off some more lmao It really isn't, and your insistence on bad arguments for lynches that look good worries me | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Roundtable: what do we think of Hf right now? Bear in mind that we are still keeping this double on Poofter and gobble right now | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Be realistic for a minute for Christ's sake. None of the arguments you're dismissing are that bad. The "fuck you get lynched" alarms are sounding in my head, please stop making me want to act on them. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Aren't we on gooble tho | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Also important johns I'm liable to be Adkins at deadline. Can we get a couple on Gooble so I can afford to park on Poofter w/o hurting Gooble lynch? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Last check-in Fuck you Poofy get divorced | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
The one thing I am gonna say is that I wish y'all would have read the all caps and moved, but I don't even really fault that much since Poofter should have checked in earlier / tried more today. Also I can confirm the time thing was already there. No johns for that please. Battery dead, bbl. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I'm not bashing hard here I obviously fucked up big at EOD too. But god damn y'all. Lol | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
My new scum list is Holyflare, justanothertownie and goodkarma. I am almost positive I'm the nightkill tonight so I'm not even going to bother being coy or bullshitting around with fake reads trying not to bait a nightkill. It's not happening. I'm going down and I'm going to get out my reads and keep rereading to see what I think before the end. Why them? Holyflare has no reason to be alive right now. He was the only "townie" who had any direction on day 1 and organized a last-minute lynch, and kush got nightkilled instead of him. Kush was obvious town, but Holyflare was generally in the town pile for everyone too, and unlike kush Holyflare was a direct threat to get people lynched. Then marv gets killed last night, and while marv was also in everyone's town pile (and Holyflare wasn't as much anymore), marv had been straight up wrong on both lynches and Adkins out the whole night. The one time he really took charge and showed direction he was off. This kill makes some sense to me over Holyflare but not really; I feel like if we assume Holyflare is town he's played a better game than marv. In any case he's going to survive tonight while I, a townie who until this point had no meaningful direction in the thread, die. And that's not going to make sense, and if I don't say something now people will go "oh, no surprise there, Eden was obvtown, Holyflare lemme sheep u 2 victory" and we'll lose. Furthermore, I've called attention to it on a couple of occasions this game - Holyflare's strength of conviction in his arguments is entirely disproportionate to their strength. The most notable instance was his insistence that both Poofter and gobble were likely to flip scum, even though they had both been scumreading the hell out of each other from midway through day 1. I've been hesitant about this point to an extent because it's been in doubt; after all it had been possible that both flipped scum and Holyflare is actually some godmode town savant genius. But we now know he was wrong, and in retrospect, it's pretty fucking obvious that he was wrong. Finally... kush had to be right about somebody, don't you think? At least one player. And who were the two he was harping on? gobbledydook and Holyflare. gobble has been on everyone's scum radar for days now, nightkilling kush wouldn't do anything to save gobble. Holyflare is the only player kush was calling out and being virtually alone in doing so. THAT is why kush was nightkilled, and why we MUST kill Holyflare tomorrow. It's not the strongest case in the whole wide world, and I'm sure Holyflare will yell and berate and whine and hurl abuse at me and everyone who's sympathetic to this argument until it dies down, just like the last couple of times. Resist this. Do not give in. You will likely see his loyal lieutenant, justanothertownie, following through. They've been lockstep for most of the game and Holyflare has been wrong and will flip scum. Obviously the two of them are pushing the scum agenda together, and they've been wildly successful thus far. But they won't succeed anymore. Don't let them. Finally there's goodkarma. I'm partially sheeping Wave on this one, but the fact that both Holyflare and justanothertownie have hard-confirmed him town off of a weak meta read from Showdown mafia is super sketchy now that I know they're both mafia. And yeah, I signed off on it earlier. Big deal. I was wrong then and I'm right now. goodkarma has lurked like crazy and like Wave said, he's doing a lot of hedging and explaining for someone who's sheeping, and I feel like his arguments have been pretty weak when he's bothered to explain his reads. I'll go do a more complete filter read to see if I still agree with this when I'm done but I'm pretty confident in it right now. goodkarma also fits excellently as the final mafia because you already have Holyflare and justanothertownie pushing the scum agenda. goodkarma is the perfect third member stylistically; no one will be shocked that he's not nightkilled since he's not trying very hard at all this game, and Holyflare and justanothertownie combined have enough thread presence (before we launch our coup right here and hurl them off their balconies) to deflect any lurker lynches onto some of you lame-ass motherfuckers taking days off at a time. Speaking of, STOP DOING THAT SHIT! WE DON'T HAVE TIME FOR IT! We're going to need every single one of y'all to step up and lynch these guys three in a row if we're gonna win. It's majority lynch and you KNOW the mafia won't miss a vote. Every single one of you needs to keep stepping up. Haru was super town today, good job, keep it up. Wave is coming alive, keep shaking off the cobwebs and pushing. Obi... man I'm fuckin thrilled! I get to be friends with Cav because we're both town and he's fuckin spot on with Holyflare this game! Keep it up! And gobble, bro, I know it's hard getting scumread the whole game as a townie but keep pushing what you believe and stay pure, my friend. I'm confident in all of you as townreads at this point. I've seen something from every one of you at some point this game that's made me think "Yep, you're town," and at the core all of these reads just feel right in the gut. One day I'll look back and either laugh at myself for being terribly wrong or be self-aware enough to understand why my reads were right despite my inability to explain them, but in the here and now I've got no choice, when my other scumhunting skills have failed me this game, to run with the reads I'm feeling in my heart and hope that they're enough. We can still do this guys, even if -- when -- I'm dead in the morning. Let's get it! | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
- Holyflare is wrong about goodkarma's Showdown filter. First there's the factual error: he got modkilled at the end of d1 and had one page of filter. Not "one page into d2." Second, there's the more insidious "error," the misrepresentation. Showdown had much fewer posts/player/day. We're averaging 1000 posts/day which comes out to nearly 100 posts/player/day. Showdown had 1260 posts in 6 days, so 210 posts/day. With 17 players, that's just over 10 posts/player/day. The game was MUCH quieter than this one, so the fact that goodkarma's filter is much longer in a more active game that he's survived in longer should come as no surprise and is not alignment-indicative. With regard to the quality, Holyflare has simply asserted that it's different without demonstrating how. His loyal caporegime justanothertownie echoed this sentiment, again without any backup whatsoever, and because I wasn't diligent and bought it, it became accepted fact within this game, even though it's not true. - Haru is obviously super town, look at how sincere his mad posts were. This should be obvious to any charitable read of Haru's posting today. Holyflare points out an inconsistency in Haru's play that is not alignment-indicative but looks bad and then tries to make you think it's bad. He's wrong, don't fall for this. If you need more proof, look at marv's argument for Haru being town. Way too many people were trying to kill him d1 for him to be scum. - Holyflare's argument on himself is ridiculous because he insists that the fact that some people scumread him invalidates every single part of my argument. Look at that beautiful example of what I call him out for (and he ignores). He addressed a relatively weak aspect of my argument - nightkill analysis - and said "the whole "case" falls flat on its face right there," ignoring the strongest argument which is that he oversells his arguments in wildly disproportionate fashion to their strength, which he's doing right fucking now in his rebuttal. Sorry you rolled scum this game bro, you woulda gotten away with it too if it weren't for us meddling kids. ![[image loading]](http://media1.giphy.com/media/lHswuNEWQhiMw/200_s.gif) | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Or because it's almost 4am, but I'll give him a chance to redeem this by showing us his homework instead of just asserting he has the right answer without proof... again... | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Cases on JAT and goodkarma are in fact primarily associations which isn't great until the dominoes start falling, but that's okay because Holyflare is the first domino and my case on him isn't built on them. Link your case on Holyflare again? Or I'll pull it up in your filter. Might help reinforce my read and/or persuade others. Anything we can get! | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 11 2014 12:07 Holyflare wrote: Eden i know you're mafia btw lmfao come lynch me then pussy I would love nothing more than for your cocky ass to pass on nightkilling me so you can fail to get me mislynched, dangle from a tree and watch your whole scumteam collapse on itself in your wake | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Why in the fuck did you think Poofter and gobble were a scumteam? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 11 2014 12:10 WaveofShadow wrote: Like...so much of what you've written and your response to HF's rebuttal is just....wonky. Like...Haru really isn't super towny in any way. The mathematical analysis of GKs filters is really weird and ignores any potential circumstantial or style-based reasons for posting more or less. It's all coming across is pretty forced and I don't know what to make of that. I don't see how Haru's day today isn't really townie? I think you missed the point on goodkarma, Holyflare is acting like he's posting so much more and being so much more involved than in Showdown (as the only counterexample he's given to this game) and I'm just not seeing it. My argument about the numbers is that goodkarma isn't posting any more frequently, given the thread atmosphere, than he did in Showdown. HF and JAT gave gk a townread off of it and there's nothing there that I'm really seeing. Not really sure what to say to "it's wonky," feel free to elaborate | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I can go back and find more if needed but I haven't been alone in saying it so I figured the people I would need to convince would already understand what I mean. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 11 2014 12:16 Holyflare wrote: Is it so hard for you to wrap your brain around? Both have been super scummy all game. Both have scum read each other with no faltering since day one. Both of them had the most useless reasons to scum read each other. Looked a lot like a bus scenario. I've asked this before and you didn't answer it as far as I can tell, so I'll ask again. What scum motivation exists for two mafia to hardcore bus each other from halfway through d1? The problem isn't that it's possible but that it's pretty unlikely. It doesn't make sense for mafia to do that here. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 11 2014 12:18 WaveofShadow wrote: wtf is this? And this is flat out untrue---a great deal of the NK analysis you did is based on association. Talking about who kush wanted dead---association. The strongest point isn't particularly strong, that's all. 'He's still alive' isn't reason enough for me to want to lynch him solely based on that. If you want to see some research and effort put into cases, go look up some of the stuff Foolishness has done. He may not always be right (lol in fact in my experience he's wrong quite a bit) but the cases he writes up bring out a lot of in-thread evidence as well as meta as well as potential association. Multi-faceted and brilliant at times, and often very convincing. This one, not so much. Show me how Haru is all of a sudden super town exactly. Some of his posts today I admit had townie vibes to them, but what HF said about him is completely true. He showed up, promised a whole bunch of shit and then did DICK ALL. What is towny about that? Does it look like he actually cared about the lynch from what he posted? I know we're supposed to be re-evaluating everything right now but this HF v Eden shit is wigging me out for some reason. We're clearly operating under different definitions of "association." I've never heard "dead townie wanted X dead" referenced as an "association" argument. I also don't think it's terrible, and I've already explained why I don't think so. The strongest point is the confidence-accuracy discrepancy as I've already said. Please comment on that? Your summary of my argument as "he's alive" is really inaccurate and I'm honestly not sure how you got that out of it. RE: Haru I'll go reread his day today and see what I think, I remember the tone of his posts was that confident, sorta-pissed Haru that I was expecting to see. There's also the argument (that I think I made in the big post? but I don't remember now LOL I'll have to check) that Haru got scumread by too many people d1 to be mafia. With the way the thread was going and how many viable targets were available it's just hard to believe that we managed to consolidate onto a mafia. Although tbh if anything that also points to Holyflare if Haru is mafia, since he led a last-minute lynch on not-Haru. I think Haru's town so I didn't mention that earlier, but Haru/Holyflare scumteam also works from what I can recall (will have to reread and see though). | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 11 2014 12:21 Holyflare wrote: I answered it and you ignored it. Look how much you defended them for it. If they are both mafia then it's free pass to end game. Believe it or not I've played a lot of mafia and know I swear to God I addressed this, I know I was typing a reply to it at some point and I'm gonna be mad if I never actually sent it b/c I was busy irl at the time. This strikes me as a terribly unproductive attempt to push the scum agenda. In a 3-person game, two of them just intermittently check in, don't do anything to solve the game state, look involved or push discussion, but instead just talk loudly about killing each other without actually making an effort to do so, all in the hopes that someone comes through, kills one of them and townreads the other for it? It isn't impossible looking strictly at the "tactics" so to speak - the arguments they were employing, the degree to which they were pushing the lynch - but it doesn't paint a coherent "strategic" picture for a scumteam. There's one guy trying to mislead the whole town in a game where the mafia have to force four mislynches to win? It just doesn't make sense. It's not impossible, but again you were so sure that was a bus and refused to even consider another angle. The confidence you had in them being scum busing from the start was significantly disproportionate to the level of certainty I would expect a townie to have in that argument. And then as it turns out... nope, not busing at all. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 11 2014 10:29 Eden1892 wrote: Furthermore, I've called attention to it on a couple of occasions this game - Holyflare's strength of conviction in his arguments is entirely disproportionate to their strength. The most notable instance was his insistence that both Poofter and gobble were likely to flip scum, even though they had both been scumreading the hell out of each other from midway through day 1. I've been hesitant about this point to an extent because it's been in doubt; after all it had been possible that both flipped scum and Holyflare is actually some godmode town savant genius. But we now know he was wrong, and in retrospect, it's pretty fucking obvious that he was wrong. I get the confusion since I didn't explicitly use "discrepancy" in it, but read it and you'll see what I mean I think | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 11 2014 12:38 Holyflare wrote: So what's my mafia agenda there then? Act super confident they are bussing and then....? Oh yes nothing. Duh, if they're both town then you want a double kill (with Poofter modkill) so you win. You said it right around the time I pointed out that if both are town and Poofter gets modkilled and we lynch gobble, it's game over for town. You wanted both kills so you could get the win right there and you oversold it a bit to try to get the kill. Ultimately it got rendered moot by Poofter's return. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 11 2014 12:39 WaveofShadow wrote: The bolded rings fairly true, however. I would hope! Give the paragraph I linked a reread, I made this argument initially and I think you missed it? I also brought this up back during n1 when kush was around | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 11 2014 12:44 Holyflare wrote: And the trap thing i only town read you after yoy said it's in the op later so wp if you're mafia for that You're gonna have to explain this for me because my interpretation of it (a) probably isn't fair and (b) is that this is terrible. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 11 2014 12:46 Holyflare wrote: You're wasting your time eden instead of actually analysing the game Says the guy just calling me scum for no reason lol | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I'll go look at your case first, it'll probably take less time than a 20-pg filter dive | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Here's where I first voiced significant Hf suspicion as far as I can remember kush and I talk about it for pages afterward, much fighting ensues | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
1. Bullying argument - I agree with the observation, I figured it wasn't worth arguing when it happened (if you'll check, I'm the person he's saying that to). As you can see, it obviously didn't help, because my concerns certainly weren't assuaged by his belligerent insistence on his towniness, and here we are. This is a similar argument (not the same though) to the confidence-accuracy discrepancy argument I made earlier, I think. At least, it comes from the same place: it's someone who's trying to push people into doing what he wants. I hate having to dip into meta because I'm pretty sure there's a non-meta argument for that being scummy, I'm just not finding the words. But I have one brief exposure to Holyflare before that, the more I think about it, is pretty illuminating. He subbed into Melee Mini Mafia on n2 as town. He demonstrably worked much harder to prove his case than he did here. There's a clear interest in persuading people to go along with him here that's absent in the "bullying" posts from him throughout the game. It's still a hard argument, because you would think that he would be equally motivated to be convincing as scum or town, right? But in my own past experience across multiple different communities, even when there's a clear incentive for scum and town to be convincing, town are overwhelmingly more likely to be concerned with it. I think it's because they don't have all the answers, and so they're more motivated to find them. 2. "Back pocket" reads - agree not sure I need to elaborate more on it. Might be worth noting that one of those you identified even in your cursory list (Artanis, replaced by Onegu) flipped town. 3. "Taking credit" argument - I don't remember him doing this a whole lot other than the example you mentioned. It certainly happened there and it's certainly false, and it probably reinforces the confidence-accuracy discrepancy, because it's part of him building himself up as having all the answers (confidence) despite the fact that the results (accuracy) say otherwise. But I don't think it's all that prevalent? Maybe you could develop this further and show it though. 4. "Buddying marv" observations - My best attempt to summarize them. Agreed, it's just hard to put a lot of stock into this since marv was 'buddying' (or the equivalent) pretty hard onto Holyflare too. At one point in the argument I linked earlier marv comes in and basically tells us all to stop because it's unproductive. (To my own weakness I did stop around that point.) I also want to develop that specific example I cited from before. It's kind of superficially amusing actually, both games Holyflare accuses Poofter of busing a scum partner, both games Poofter flips town (or "flips," Poofter survived the other one). Here's where it gets significant: both times people ask him "hey Holyflare, why is this a bus? I don't get this at all" or something to that extent. In Melee Mini, where he was town, he writes HUGE paragraphs with cited examples and all that clearly try hard to convince the audience that yes, Poofter was scum busing. Here? "Lol duh it's a free ticket to endgame noob how do u not see this scum." Like he's not at all interested in convincing me that his reasoning made sense. Sure some of it is because it's already happened and catching mafia off of it (assuming he were town) is unlikely, but at the same time where were these explanations when he was arguing it and getting quizzical responses during the day? Where's the same level of effort? It's just not there. And it hasn't been all game, tell the truth - sure he's pushed fairly hard on his targets, but the level of thoroughness, attention to detail and depth is lacking. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Holy shit I felt a lot better | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Omg | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
GOODKARMA: Who should we make the CEO of /towncircle Co. for the rest of the game? Also be sure to name two successors since our leader(s) will surely be killed off. Actually name 3 since that's how many nightkills the mafia have before we win | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 11 2014 13:11 HaruRH wrote: I just woke up. Now we in lylo? Damn. Looks like I was wrong on pooft then. I would say hf have a decent chance to be scum now ttht I don't feel any town pull from him. Nothing screams 'sheep me you fools' Does anything scream "sheep me you fools" instead? Cause... I think I'm finally getting somewhere | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 11 2014 14:23 goodkarma wrote: Do you seriously think we stand a snowflake's prayer in hell of getting through this game without ensuring everyone consolidates? What I suggested is one way to ensure a non-scum influenced lynch. There's enough scummy people in this game right now that we're very unlikely to go 3 for 3 otherwise. Otherwise scum just goes "yeah this guy looks scummy," steers a lynch, and we lose gg. As it is, it's a very hard battle. I kinda doubt we recover and win this. But /sheep is the best thing we can do. And if you /sheep the dude who just died, you guarantee a townie-led lynch. And if you have that dude post the desired lynch target just before deadline, scum nightkill couldn't have possibly been influenced by directing a mislynch based on people's reads. There's no doubt other ways to go about this, but I like mine the bestest. If you want to come up with your own method feel free to, but I'd encourage you to think up something instead of berating me and fast. It's pretty clear you're going pants-on-head right now. Quite honestly, if you're going to be super-bad and disregard any suggestions to ensure some semblance of consolidation and as a result, ensure we lose, I really don't have the energy to argue right now. I can't be bothered to dive in and solve this game anything I say will probably get ignored anyway. People have this super-stupid idea that if you don't post a ton you don't have anything meaningful to say. And so we get caught up in this shit-post war when anything off the top of your mind gets thrown onto paper and posted. It doesn't do anyone any favors, makes the game unreadable, and hurts town. This is probably my last game for at least a while. It was nowhere near this bad before, and I honestly can't understand how it ever got this way. Only playing limited post games if I play in the future 20+ page shitfilters aren't worth my time. Sheeping whoever the mafia nightkills is literally putting the game into the mafia's hands unless all the townies are on the same page (at which point we don't even need to sheep). No matter what we try to come up with, solving the consolidation problem is hard and there are no easy solutions; welcome to LYLO, it fucking blows. What definitely won't solve the game is agreeing to sheep beforehand. Everyone should be busting their balls trying to figure this thing out. And in that vein, how are you gonna look at me, goodkarma, tell me I'm going pants-on-head super-stupid, tell me you don't think you can be bothered to solve the game and then just talk about consolidation and needing to work together? This sounds to me like you're saying "You're wrong and I don't feel like explaining why," which is... Understandable I guess if you really are town and mad, but it's also alarming and giving me scarce little reason to reconsider my scum read on you. As an aside... And if I'm wrong I'm about to make an ass out of myself but I'm sure I've already done that if I'm wrong so fuck it: this complaining about the activity level doesn't seem genuine to me. You see gents, goodkarma and I were hydras in Melee Mini, a game of comparable activity level to this one. Goodkarma didn't post much but he had no trouble keeping up with the game and giving me bunches of good reads and advice as I did my thing. I can see his complaint to some degree since the quality of the activity in this game is lower than that one, but I don't think the game is significantly more difficult to read than that one. Maybe this is goodkarma's boiling point... Or he's mafia. If it's the former then I really am sorry but I think it's the latter and I feel pretty good about that read. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 11 2014 20:30 Holyflare wrote: I've posted almost entirely on my phone this game hence the not over elaborate posts (you can tell for future reference if i start post with capital letters) That explains away a fair number of the stylistic discrepancies, but I still feel like your reads this game haven't been as well-explained as I expected. Especially given your confidence level in them | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
The key point about Holyflare that I've emphasized over and over is the discrepancy I see between the strength of his arguments and the fervor with which he's pushed them. Pushing things you believe in is townie to a point, but if the things you're pushing flat-out don't make sense - like the Poofter/gobble superbus - and you're stating them in terms that are grossly overselling their strength, I consider that scummy because it betrays a certain intractability that comes from not having a dynamic picture of the game state. Doubly so if, like with the Poofter/gobble argument, there's a clear scum motive for pushing it. Wave didn't put it in the same terms in his case on Holyflare, but he observed a different manifestation of that intractability, which I discussed in my analysis of his case. Holyflare isn't trying to convince people of the validity of his positions, and when you sit down and look at some of the arguments he's pushed, it's probably because the positions he holds aren't actually valid at all on deeper inspection. I keep harping on the Poofter/gobble thing but it really is a great example of what I mean. There's no fucking reason to think they were busing with the ironclad confidence with which he did! None whatsoever! I have to keep acknowledging it's possible because, well, it is (barring the flip blabla), but there's no reason to believe it's the most likely outcome, let alone the far-and-away most likely outcome like Holyflare thought. The scum motive is obvious, a double kill on townies there = gg. In fact gobble if you're town you specifically should find this compelling because you're the only person who knows without a doubt that you're town. As far as the order it's important to me to get Holyflare first because I feel like the longer this goes on the more likely it is to lose steam and never get pursued, especially if I get nightkilled before he gets lynched. The only time I really felt like I was making sense of the game state was when I was pushing on Holyflare n1 with kush, and I let myself get talked down by marv and a couple others I can't remember and I hate that I did that. I'm not letting this get away again. Please don't let this guy get away, he's too fucking good at arguing himself out of a bind. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
The two things that have bothered me the most about Holyflare this game have been, in combination, what I've repeatedly referenced as the "Confidence-Accuracy Discrepancy." Holyflare has been, in my reading, absurdly confident in the cases he's pushed and arguments he's made, far beyond the actual strength of his arguments and accuracy of his cases. It's important to note the nuance of this read: confidence tends to be considered a townie trait, not a mafia trait, and accuracy (or lack thereof) as a null trait. On balance townies tend to push ideas more confidently than mafia, and on balance both tend to be wrong a lot. So it's not enough to summarize this as "he's confident and wrong, therefore he's mafia." What we have to look at is why townies tend to be more confident in pushing their reads and why Holyflare's arguments were wrong. Townies tend to be more confident in pushing their reads because they're trying to find the answers. Their game is fundamentally on the offensive, not defensive: they don't have information, and they have to dig around, push people, and ask tough questions to get information and try to solve the puzzle. Thus a townie's aggression is rooted in a search for answers and has the motivation of advancing discussion. Mafia, on the other hand, are not only not trying to find the answers, they're actively trying to prevent the town from finding the answers. This typically manifests in a desire not to push cases and reads, for two reasons: (1) they already have the answers and so pushing cases and reads exposes them to the risk of slipping up and accidentally displaying their extra knowledge of the game state, and (2) since they're not actively looking for the answers, they have to fake looking for the answers to replicate town-motivated aggression, which requires you to fake an entire thought process, which is an exceedingly difficult task. However, mafia can still benefit from pushing cases and reads! For one, they have to make at least a token effort to do so, lest they be caught by process of elimination. More importantly, if they can manage to make reads that are superficially sensible, and maybe even develop those reads into decent-sounding cases, not only can they look townie, they also distract and deflect the town away from the actual answers. The catch is that these pushes typically fall apart under intense scrutiny, because they still aren't coming from the same mindset. A mobster's aggression is rooted in a desire to distract from teammates and has the motivation of stifling discussion. If we can show, then, that Holyflare's various pushes, reads and cases throughout the game are oriented predominantly toward stifling rather than advancing discussion, we can then convincingly argue that Holyflare's aggression is actually a mafia trait rather than a townie trait, and establish the grounds for lynching him tomorrow. Going chronologically through his filter, here's what I've found. 1. This incident with Holyflare and Vivax. Holyflare makes the argument that Haru's meta read on Wave was somewhat weak, and calls Haru mafiaish for it. Vivax weighs in, saying that Haru's read is simply a matter of disagreement over interpretation, which Vivax doesn't consider a mafia trait necessarily. Holyflare immediately accuses Vivax of "trying to shut down discussion." No charitable reading of Vivax's comment can possibly lead to the conclusion that Vivax was doing anything other than weighing in. Yet Holyflare makes the accusation anyway. What's telling here is that after this brief exchange occurs, Haru does actually return and explain his metaread further. Holyflare proceeds to drop the line of discussion altogether. His next series of posts involves him making a case for Haru being scum, but at no point does he actually use this discussion line to advance his case. If Holyflare were really so interested in not having this line of discussion shut down, would he proceed to shrug the entire thing off once he got an answer? Of course not. Instead he just throws shade on Vivax and then lets it drop. This looks scummy to me because it clearly serves the purpose of shutting down discussion that might lead to Haru not being scumread; town!Holyflare, even if he were confident in Haru being scum, would at least entertain the discussion if only to rebut any arguments from it and to persuade the other players that he has the right idea. SOURCE 2. As the discussion moves on to Haru, Holyflare asks "who comments on game setup/mafia theory repeatedly with no other proper reads," in response to a comment kushm4sta made in a reply to Haru. Holyflare is clearly talking about Haru here, but his comment is inaccurate. kush already gives the proper explanation in the subsequent back-and-forth that you can read in the source link below. Holyflare again lets this drop once kush fires back with good arguments for the opposing point of view. But Holyflare doesn't drop the scumread he has on Haru, either. He just ignores kush's reasonable rebuttal. This isn't townie behavior, because again, townies will either accept the rebuttal if they believe they're mistaken or fight the rebuttal to convince the other person to vote with them. SOURCE 3. Another episode with Vivax, this time over Haru's -1+1 argument. The stifling-discussion angle becomes pretty apparent here. Holyflare again accuses Vivax of "shut[ting] down" his "other post," but as we've already seen, that didn't happen. Holyflare dropped it of his own volition after Haru replied to Holyflare's questions. So that's a lie. Holyflare also misinterprets Vivax's post here: Vivax says that it's his opinion that Holyflare's argument "rode excessively on the - 1 + 1" (emphasis mine). He didn't say that it wasn't a reason to scumread Haru, necessarily, only that Holyflare overutilized it relative to its value as an argument. If you go back and read the source post Holyflare is quoting (appended as SOURCE 2), you'll see this. Vivax says that Holyflare's posts could come from a town perspective and that Haru's arguments had holes, just not holes that were necessarily scummy. Vivax was very charitable and fair in assessing Holyflare; in fact Vivax makes a theme of this almost in his posts, as he goes on to criticize a couple of other posts for not being sufficiently charitable. One thing Vivax definitely cannot be accused of in this game is being unfair to the people he's questioning, and yet Holyflare does exactly that. His representation is incredibly dishonest, and Vivax calls him out for it in their subsequent exchange. SOURCE SOURCE 2 4. The first episode involving me! How about that? You can see my argument for Haru being town in the source post, Holyflare replies to it right away so it's an easy exchange. Holyflare misrepresents me here pretty egregiously - saying that I thought Haru was only being scumread for the -1+1 comment, when if you read my post, I very clearly use it as an example of something Haru said that sounded weird but (imo) came from a townie POV. Holyflare also just insists that Haru's reads were wholly superficial in response to my post without developing it further. I didn't very strongly address this at the time because I didn't want to pre-empt Haru's defense of himself (which I said at the time!), but I still gave cursory responses that, had Holyflare cared enough about them, he could have developed further. It's just another misrepresentation of what I said followed by an unexplained drop in discussion. He moves onto ObiWanShinobi, placing his first vote of the day, incidentally. SOURCE 5. An episode involving Haru. Pretty blatant spin on display here. Holyflare claims that Haru spent 25 minutes finding quotes from another game to defend himself, in order to make the argument that Haru cared more about trying to look good than scumhunt. (SOURCE below.) However if you actually look at the quote he got his figure from, it's obvious why it took Haru so long: he was on mobile and struggling to c/p posts. (SOURCE 2 below.) Haru said this at the time and again, it takes a willfully uncharitable interpretation of Haru's post to come to the conclusion Holyflare took away from it. Again Holyflare pushes another argument for Haru being scum and then (?)doesn't vote for him and lets it drop(?). SOURCE SOURCE 2 6. Interesting side note about the Poofter lynch, Holyflare claims that the "shitty catchup posts" heuristic is a good one for catching mafia with. Poofter obviously flipped town. I'd never heard this heuristic before Holyflare said it this game and I don't really get it. Anybody want to explain this for me? In retrospect it looks pretty shady since, y'know, Poofter flipped town and this heuristic got asserted without any real backing or justification. Wave even calls it out at the time as being BS... and then Holyflare gives some weird excuse about being "too tunneled on Haru to comment." Let me remind you that at the time, Holyflare's vote was on Poofter and he wasn't talking about Haru at all. Wtf? Holyflare eventually responds to arguments against Poofter being scum for his catchup posts by asserting that Poofter must be "shitty scum" instead of simply town. This qualifies to me as an example of the confidence-accuracy discrepancy, because Holyflare is absolutely sure from this that Poofter is scum (which we now know is false). There was no reason to be absolutely sure Poofter was scum. SOURCE ==== I'm only like one-fifth of the way through Holyflare's filter, too. I'm probably just going to post piecemeal because I don't know that I have the time today to finish his filter before deadline. If anybody needs more examples I'll be happy to go through them, but I think you guys get the point well enough. Next is a filter dive on jat and goodkarma. I can already tell you I found jat subtly supporting Holyflare on a few of these. The most memorable is the "ancient philosophers" quote during #3, when Holyflare and Vivax are arguing; JAT adds to the comments about this being a "pointless discussion" at a point that was fairly good for scum (Vivax was pretty clearly handling Holyflare's arguments and it helped Holyflare disengage). There's been a couple of other occasions where he outright sheeped something Holyflare said too. The thing that's holding me back is that I know I was duped for a while, or at least convinced not to listen to my reservations about Holyflare, so maybe JAT was too. On its own it's admittedly not a great scumread and I'll see how I feel about them post-filters. Work in an hour so Adkins for a bit. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
And no I'm not doing that, go through his filter and fact-check me if you don't believe me. I've only done 6 pgs, it's not hard. I didn't look at everything he's done and try to make it look scummy, I picked out the pushes that do look scummy / follow the scum agenda I very carefully laid out before I started looking at anything and explained very clearly and thoroughly why they do. If you think I am, I'm as crystal-clear as I can fucking be right now. Go show me how my examples don't fit the mold that I was careful to craft before rereading Holyflare. You can't, because they do. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 12 2014 01:19 justanothertownie wrote: And please tell me about some other things. If the scumteam is HF, gk and me: 1) Why would we switch to Vivax day1? 2) Why the shenanigans during the lynch yesterday? 3) Why were gk and I marvs strongest townreads besides you? Do you think you can read us better than he can? 1) Vivax was a better lynch for scum than Haru, based on meta comments from other people and thread atmosphere at the time (as best as I can tell since I can only read after the fact). kush made the meta argument earlier that Vivax is a more dangerous townie than Haru; whether or not that's true in the meta it strikes me as true this game, since he was actually going after Holyflare on d1. marv also sheeped it right away and a lot of people (myself included) came away with townreads based off of it, maybe those townreads don't happen otherwise. I'll grant that it's certainly not normal mafia behavior but I can see plenty of reason for it. 2) Have to go reread to be sure, gimme some time on that. 3) Dat appeal to authority rofl. Pls. marv was wrong about Vivax and wrong about Onegu. Who cares? Good townies are wrong all the time. I spent the whole game until marv died letting him talk me down from my lead on Holyflare and my pushes elsewhere, why the fuck would I keep doing that when it's gotten me to LYLO and I'm only now finding my bearing and feeling like I've got something good by disregarding it? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 12 2014 02:06 WaveofShadow wrote: I doubt I'm going to be able to get to everything people have written before the NK, so for SOME REASON in case it's me (it won't be) GK/Haru/HF right now. god bless america | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
- his all-caps "I'm back and ready to kick ass" type posts were in line with what I expected to see from town!Haru all game - Holyflare been push... wait lol why has Holyflare been pushing Haru so hard the whole game but then somehow found a reason not to kill him every time but why bus? ugh ~ This Game Still Hard ~ | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Wave please give me your case on Haru but after Holyflare ~ I've Got Something Special In Store ~ | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Holyflare if you're town who's your scumteam right now or at least your best lead(s) atm? Actually this question should go for all of you, there's no excuse for people to be Adkins right now with shortened phases | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Wow that Eden guy is so town his wagon will be so pure!!! /sheep!!!!! FWIW after a brief reread of the thread I feel like Holyflare/Haru scumteam bus makes sense Still think goodkarma other one justanothertownie... uggggghhhh how does a townie have so many similar thoughts to scum?? holyflare so good?? probably actually that makes sense could it be gooblegobblegooblegobble? is he one of us? one of us if it's NOT jat then there's some busing going on with holyflare and one of his partners and of them haru makes more sense, he's talked a lot about killing both over the course of the game but somehow only gooblegobblegooblegobble has ended up as a major wagon more than once sorry in advance for ~ Unflipped Associations ~ but i won't be around to see holyflare flip scum so i'm just going to get my thoughts down for when he does | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
With specific respect to CaviwanShinobinho I guess I have the same reservations with him as you have with Holyflare, I see where he looks scummy but on a couple of occasions he's said exactly what I've been thinking at the same time as I've been thinking it As far as the LYLO apathy goes... I can't really coherently argue against it, because if anyone is going to be relatively uninterested or not invested in the outcome at 7p LYLO it's scum, but at the same time it just... feels too easy I guess? Like it's weird that all 3 scum would all just happen to be the three people who seem not to give a fuck at LYLO. I would expect at least one of them to give a shit still. Again there isn't a strong reason why this must be wrong, it just feels too easy and obvious for a game in which we've struggled so mightily. But that doesn't mean it's wrong, either. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Haru could maybe change my mind again but he'd have to actually do something first, JAT putting in some decent work right here and even doing me the courtesy of letting me discuss it before killing me which makes me think he's not the one killing me! God I wish one of the people on the list would fucking step up and do something while I'm alive to work with them | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
D1, goodkarma was on Vivax by himself before that wagon picked up any steam and he was Adkins at EOD. While that could be argued as scummy anyway (and I wouldn't even object to it), I don't think it's correct to characterize it as "saving" Haru since goodkarma didn't push for it to become a viable wagon. Haru voting in self-defense also isn't alignment-indicative. Obi's vote is the only one that I thought was dodgy from that group D3 I need to reread EOD and see what everyone saw but to me goodkarma switching from town to town is null in and of itself, I guess I'd need to see what he saw that made him switch to evaluate it. I need to reread it | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 12 2014 05:50 justanothertownie wrote: Well, we have to ask ourselves WHY we struggled so hard. Did mafia really play so great and is fooling us or did we as a town just fuck up several times and fight amongst ourselves while mafia was just staying low and flew under the radar. this is the most seriousest gif i have ever posted on tl ![[image loading]](http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121009000433/pffanon/images/7/77/Porque_no_los_dos.gif) In fact I almost guarantee it's both, good scumteams have at least one person running interference and at least one person chilling in the back waiting for LYLO | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Depends on Haru being scum which I'm pretty open to at the moment | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 12 2014 05:49 goodkarma wrote: That, or town that can't be bothered to tryhard in an almost certainly lost game, but I digress... Carry on. Hey, that's enough of that from you, bro. You weren't all Debbie Downer like this in Melee Mini at ALL! Sure you chilled in the back while I did the talking but you had a bunch of good ideas and really helped me refine my thought process, and never ONCE were you half as pessimistic about our odds as you are now. What happened since then? You saw how quick we pulled that win out? In the span of 12 hours we went from almost lynching a parity cop to pinning a mafia and forcing the other one to concede. CONCEDE! Now we got twice as long to find one mafia and give us some more time and you just wanna quit? Come on! | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 12 2014 05:59 ObiWanShinobi wrote: You're surprisingly fickle this game. I prefer limber, trying to avoid the inflexibility of mind that led me to lynch a parity cop d1 not too long ago | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I'm still really liking Holyflare but could be convinced to do Haru and goodkarma | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Reading something real quick | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
do not do this please stay focused and lynch someone more likely to be scum. you're getting mad and starting to tunnel on him and i'm almost positive he's town so please do not | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
TBH right now you're doing what I've been on Holyflare's balls for doing the whole game which is overstating the strength of your objections beyond their actual value. You might not like JAT scumreading you and that's fine, I don't agree with it either, but you're being pretty ridiculous right now tbh. Can you not discuss the other aspects of his theory? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
What do you think about Haru and goodkarma being scum? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I get that he doesn't want to argue with me about his alignment and that he wanted me to 'stop pushing my shitty case' so he 'can finish churning out his stuff with his remaining time.' Then he disappears for the rest of the night... after I stop pushing my case... | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 12 2014 06:40 goodkarma wrote: Figure out how we're going to get UNANIMOUS town consensus each day, and then we'll talk. Any effort on this game is wasted until you do. If you're town, it starts with you doing something; I can't get a unanimous decision if I don't know wtf you want to do. Come on, where's the passion, man? You had so much fun working with me before. What changed? It's not my alignment. Is it yours? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I'm honestly not sure what more to tell you. I don't get your point at all. Sheeping a townie of potentially-dubious accuracy is just allowing the mafia to pick who to kill. Let's say for example that Holyflare IS town and I name him my primary suspect (as I have) and the mafia nightkills me. Everyone sheeps my dead wrong ass onto Holyflare and we lose. If the town is allowed to discuss the matter more thoroughly they might conclude I was wrong and pick the right target. Even if we decided on "sheep dead townies" as a fallback option of last resort, what's the harm in discussing it out? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 12 2014 06:50 goodkarma wrote: As far as I'm concerned I'm the towniest one here. I'm literally trying to tell you your only chance of not losing this game 100%. But if you don't see it that way, lynch me first please. I want this game to be over. You think it's a guaranteed loss if we do anything besides sheeping townies? I can't believe that you believe that, goodkarma. Sorry dude. If you're town and we lose because we mislynch you then I'm sorry I brought the game to the point where you decided the best move was to roll over and get mislynched. But you're hitting all my "lynch me" buttons right now. Limited meta experience, incoherent argument, martyrdom, you're practically tying the noose around yourself. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I can't make heads or tails of goodkarma and I feel like I'm eventually going to lynch him and just hope for the best. Knowing Holyflare's alignment would help a lot here I feel good about JAT and Wave right now, Obi too but a little less so than them. I trust if Obi does what he says then I can probably feel comfy townreading him and ride-or-die from there. Really do feel good about Holyflare/Haru/goodkarma scumteam. It makes sense of a lot of things. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Bye friends Haru Hf gk I made 600!!!!! Town 4evr | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Thank you scum for rescuing me from the tunnel AND confirming me town | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Found the first scum | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Third... shit. Obi? More like JustAnotherChampion if so | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
So the fact that goodkarma is voting for me either makes him scum or town throwing the game. Unless he's got a serious case for me being scum there is no excuse for goodkarma to be voting for me. And think about the sequence of posts too, he spends the night demanding that I tell him how I'm going to organize the town then up and votes for me before I get the chance to do so. I'm like one of maybe three people trying to figure out the game state right now. Time for some karmic rebalance. ##VOTE: goodkarma | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I did NOT say that I liked to tunnel! I said I tend to tunnel as the game goes along. (SOURCE) I consider this a weakness of my play and it's something I want to avoid. Who the hell likes to tunnel? I'm not sure what you consider trolling earlygame but I definitely had a protown/scumhunting purpose behind almost everything I've done this game. (the only thing I would say didn't is my occasional spammy troll posts like "post count Enzyte" which I do regardless of alignment when I'm having fun because I think it's funny and have a terrible sense of humor, and while it's not explicitly protown it's not antitown either, it just is) "I don't remember you saying anything meaningful" just speaks to your recollection rather than the facts, all I can really do is assert that I have in fact said plenty of meaningful things. I'm not sure why you would sheep Holyflare when he's been wrong literally the entire game. Wrong on Vivax, wrong on Onegu, wrong on Poofter. Wrong on me too. He's a good player but it's pretty obvious he had a rough outing. We all have. Who cares if he wasn't trollposting "kill Eden if I die"? He's still wrong. He never posted any reasoning for that. Best I can tell it's a shitty OMGUS vote because even when we were arguing throughout the night he never said I was scum, he just tried to defend against my case on him. Which, I can't help but observe, you've handwaved altogether. It's because you've already decided I'm your best chance at a mislynch, I get it, but you could at least make a token effort to be persuasive. Why would I waste hours of my time throughout the night phase typing a gigantic post on Holyflare just to nightkill him? Why not just sheep him onto townies or otherwise not rock the boat, let him get nightkilled and sheep him to a scum victory? If I'm scum I've deliberately chosen the path of greatest resistance for absolutely no reason at all. Holyflare didn't scumread me at all until the night phase, so I guarantee if I hadn't come out against him he wouldn't have said "kill Eden" with his last words. If I were scum, why would I come out against him, wasting hours of my time building a case that I promptly would make irrelevant by nightkilling him, achieving nothing but baiting a scumread from a well-reputed player I knew would flip town? There is no logical incentive for scum to do this at all, and you know it. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Everyone who was a significant player in pushing lynches - tbh that's just marv and Holyflare, RIP town this game - is dead now, which means the scumteam was pretty clearly letting the town tear itself apart, like JAT argued earlier. This is pretty significant because we havetwo players alive who were significant lynch targets at some point or another: Haru and gobble. I've been giving gobble a pass for a while because I figured that there's no way the scumteam would let one of their own come under serious fire for that long, that with the absence of strong town direction it would be easy to deflect a lynch elsewhere. But if the mafia also don't have thread presence this argument obviously goes belly-up. I'm most inclined to kill the people who haven't been around much this game, honestly. Problem is that leaves me with too many options still. goodkarma is one. ObiWanShinobi and HaruRH are two others who fit the bill, they drop in sporadically and then peace out and I don't really see where their picture of the game state is evolving much. WaveofShadow would have fit as well but he's been kicking it into gear more at the end here. Would scum do that? Dunno. He also went to some effort to make a case on Holyflare that we argued about during the night, albeit that it was posted during the previous day. I can maybe see him as a target but he's second-tier for me right now. gobbledydook I think is okay, even if you make the argument that he's had to be around because he's been under fire for a while, he's still been around and talking. He's in the same category for me as Wave, I wouldn't write it off but he's decidedly not on my radar. I'm not lynching justanothertownie this game and if he is mafia someone give this motherfucker the belt. Ten possible scumteams from my point of view... gonna be a long night at work. LOL | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
goodkarma! You're not even sheeping Holyflare right!!! On August 12 2014 07:59 Holyflare wrote: lynch haru tomorrow no questions asked, this guy is fucking mafia Haru/goodkarma scumteam??????????????????????? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
FUK | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I'm just havin fun man. I got a lead! And I think it's actually pretty good. Don't you? Talk to me about it! | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 12 2014 10:53 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Also, I'm still town. ![[image loading]](http://kisstheschoolbondgoodbye.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/pinocchio-long-nose.jpg) | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 08 2014 06:37 Eden1892 wrote: Expanded version. What gives? what was that you were saying about reads changing for little to no reason | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
you got a point to make? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
What do you think about goodkarma? You've been pointedly ignoring me when I've asked about him today. Do you think he's mafia? Thoughts on his case on me? How do you interpret his claim to sheep Holyflare and then vote for me when Holyflare said to vote for Haru today? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I don't care that you're dumping the read and starting over right now, you go do that if you think it's best, but I want to know what you were thinking and why you feel like that's out the window now. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
And considering Holyflare didn't scumread me at all before the night phase I think we can at least divine that his scumread on me comes from something I did during the night. Which is... push on him, mainly. Maybe that's it? It's my main theory at the moment, although I have a fun pet theory I just came up with: This is also an incredibly convenient explanation for me but it's something not beyond Holyflare's capacity and supported by his actions at the end when he finally did decide to post: What if Holyflare's "scumread" on me is fake? Notice how he spent the entirety of EoN arguing with Haru and trying to make some final arguments for him being scum, then he says "kill Haru tomorrow 100%." and then throws in a last-second "kill Eden ". The context makes it pretty clear that Haru was his primary scumread, not me. Holyflare has also been intermittently pushing Haru the whole game, and until that post (from what I recall) never outright scumread me. He wanted to on a couple of earlier occasions where I was on his case with kush, but he never did, the way he addressed me was clearly as though I were a townie. I'll go dig up the post(s) that gave me that impression if needed (but not right now leaving for trivia).Might end up x-posting but what are your thoughts on goodkarma ignoring Holyflare's actual final wishes to vote for me? And the case he made in trying to double down on it? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Pretty much positive we caught two mafia right here. God bless America gogo trivia yay! be back in a few hrs | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
##UNVOTE: goodkarma ##VOTE: HaruRH | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 12 2014 12:16 WaveofShadow wrote: I"M ON A FUCKING RAMPAGE COME AT ME SCUMMERS Literally my sentiment right now You asked about JAT - dude proposed Haru/gk/Obi scum team before it was cool. Simulposted with me a couple times. I'm ride or die with him right now | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 12 2014 12:24 WaveofShadow wrote: Eden what have you accomplished in this game? I'm curious. Very little | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Not really, my theory that you two are both scum looks hella good right now | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 12 2014 12:33 WaveofShadow wrote: What does GK gain as scum by acting in this way Eden? Stalling Throwing town for a loop Drawing townies into arguments that go nowhere (and can't go anywhere) ?Possibly? deliberate appeal to self-meta Better than the alternative, short of overly-indulgent schadenfreude (which is NOT who I pegged goodkarma for), a townie gains nothing out of his approach | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Omg this is really happening!! We gon win it! Clutch!!! | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
You want to convince me otherwise you could try figuring out who the mafia are | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
This dude is just being a belligerent dick at this point, further engagement is not worth the time. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 12 2014 12:56 WaveofShadow wrote: I really don't feel like by lynching him we're lynching scum, but I don't want to let this go. Maybe I let it go for now and we see later. I could be wrong. I want a weigh in from your butt-buddy JAT and Cav as well. Like I want GK out of my game now, and I'd rather it be because he is scum. No. Step back and reassess. Don't give into the bullshit. Make sure you're voting scum, not mad. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Pretty scummy. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Cannot imagine JAT just deciding to scum read 2/3 of his team before LYLO when he did LYLO policy lynch people who aren't trying so OP | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 12 2014 13:40 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Also, I reread and I discovered that you were ready to pounce on Holyflare for absolutely no goddamn reason earlier on. Why were you so convinced to jump on a gut read? I don't get it. Whatcha gonna do about it? @Wave JAT had a big post near EoN where he implicated everyone who's not trying to solve the game right now. That said as I type it I can totally see JAT busing now. I'll link post and explain later | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 12 2014 14:17 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I don't even care about all of your scumreads. I care about your scumread on me. You came to the decision that I would be your ride-or-die townread if I carried out my reread, but then immediately turned around and read me as scum because I wasn't trying hard enough. You don't have any actual reasons for the things that you're saying. The progression of your reads don't actually make sense, especially when you turn around and call your top town mafia for the exact reasons you were planning to read them as town. I told you that in the hopes you would actually give a coherent set of reads that show you have a rational progressive view of the game state. I've already pretty clearly demonstrated since the Poofter flip where my mind is at, and while I obviously wasn't correct on all of it, you can't sensibly argue that I haven't been open in my thought process and demonstrated clarity of argument and direction. And hold the phone, bullshitter, you said this: On August 12 2014 14:11 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Yeah, I'm pretty sure you just made up reasons for your scumreads. ##vote eden You can't backtrack from this shit. You said I made up reasons for my scumreads. You are pointedly not demonstrating how any of them are made up. I've repeatedly asked you your view on goodkarma. You consistently ignore my questions. You're completely full of shit and your team is colossally fucking up LYLO | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Also you said reads, as in plural. How can you look at all my reads and say they're made up? Cite it and show it. Your pointed refusal to give a read on goodkarma has everything to do with this game right now because it's so fucking obvious that goodkarma slipped with his "plan" and the fact that you refuse to say anything about it whatsoever is part-and-parcel scum tactic in a situation like this. You don't want to bus your teammate but you don't have the balls to townread him since he's being scummy so you're dancing around on the fence, refusing to give any answer whatsoever and hoping if you ignore it enough it'll go away. It won't. What are your reads? You made a big deal about going back and rereading the whole game and throwing out alllll your reads, where's your work? It's LYLO, if by some amazing stroke of terrible luck you're town then you need to get those reads out and start discussing them ASAP because you're fucking wrong about me and we're going to lose if you don't move your vote, so you better start talking in real details with real posts and real quotes so we can sort out whatever your problem is and find scum. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I think I want Haru first to make goodkarma switch like anybody who's really sheeping Holyflare should do. If there's anybody I feel like I could be wrong about it's goodkarma, because there's an appreciable chance that he really is just completely-mailed-it-in town instead of scum (whereas I really don't see any way Haru and Obi are town at this point). I feel like Haru is probably the highest-% play we have since he's the only one that none of the four of us have any reservations about. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 12 2014 15:13 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Eh, now that I post it I don't feel confident anymore because it feels like a stretch. I'm probably just going to finish my reread and move on. Busted | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
"ABUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH YOU'RE MAKING UP YOUR READS" "what reads am i making up cav" "ABUUUUUUUUH YOUR READ ON ME" "where am i making up a read on you cav" "uhhhhhhhhhh my bad lol ##STEALTHUNVOTE" | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 12 2014 15:25 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Honestly, you're so dumb. First right thing you've said about me this evening | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 12 2014 15:47 HaruRH wrote: Eden is being wishy washy now. Confirmed for not reading the thread | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 12 2014 16:14 ObiWanShinobi wrote: posting dumb shit. cite sources pls | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
And we're probably gonna need to do this every deadline from now on, tbh. Just too divergent a player base. Two (Haru and gobble) from Southeast Asia/Oceania (Singapore/Australia), one from Europe (JAT iirc) and four from North America. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Omg ![[image loading]](http://myrdin.co/uploads/it's%20happening.gif) Just need Wave to hop on and give his thoughts on likely team to confirm all 4 of us are on same page then pick someone to lynch and go | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Just lol @ his "slipping" post | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
haru used selfdestruct! it doesn't affect eden... haru fainted! | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Furthermore he's actually giving reads there after saying here he doesn't give reads d1. Sounds like an excuse not to give reads here to me | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Instead of giving me rules johns why don't you try to do something to solve the game brah? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Rephrased: Haru why aren't you doing anything to solve the game at LYLO? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
If one of my town reads is actually mafia then (1) GG and (2) come on man @ whichever townie gave up on this game | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 12 2014 12:47 goodkarma wrote: Like honestly who has done much this game at this point? What would you quantify as productive? We've collectively sheeped Marv days 1/2 and most of us have concluded that Poof/GD was a meaningless town/town bandwagon choice. The person we've sheeped is dead, and lynch three didn't tell much as far as I can see. Scum literally didn't have to do much of anything this game... So how does one find scum motivated behavior when scum didn't literally have to do anything? You don't. Trick question. You find people who aren't doing anything because they haven't had to the whole game and are caught like deer in headlights at LYLO now that the town is kicking it into extra gear. At the moment that's the three people - funny how that works out - who aren't doing casework to solve the game, aren't commenting on current happenings, aren't adding their own insights and don't really seem to care | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
The Obi "townread" thing is explained a couple pages back - read from p190 I think. If you don't find it by the time I return I'll dig it up. Tl;dr is I faked that to try to encourage him to fucking do something and he didn't do it so I retracted | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Please say yes so I can go shamelessly apeshit with joy over solving this enigma of a game | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Wave I get why you were hesitant on trusting people earlier, and sorry if I was pushin your buttons by continuing to bring it up, it's just that the townies DO have to find and trust each other since it's LYLO. Off the top of my head for Haru being scum: • Not playing the game at non-3p LYLO is a scum tell. In fact it's one of the few factors that distinguishes town from scum! At LYLO the game is drastically different due to a shift in town incentives: now the townies must be preoccupied with their own survival, as being mislynched = lose. The two major differences between town and scum is that scum can lynch anybody and win while town must hit specific people in sequence to win; and that scum have an extra day to play if they "lose" the first round of LYLO (or in this case two rounds). Both of these put all the pressure on town to figure it out and incentivize scum to wait and see where the winds blow. Therefore it is a scum tell and is a valid argument. • You can also basically PoE this game IMO. Wave you do believe Gobble is town right? If so then even just randomly Haru has 75% chance to be scum. In fact Wave as an aside what is your current scum team? • The unanimous vote on Haru isn't as scary as the one on Onegu d2 again because of incentives. Scum have strong incentive to bus a caught partner at LYLO because it doesn't directly hurt their position. With or without the partner they are equally close to winning: one ML away. Busing is the smartest move at LYLO when scum is caught. Of course this doesn't guarantee Haru is scum being bused but it does mean that the state of the wagon shouldn't be reason to reconsider. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
• The mistrust. I don't feel like any of me/gobble/JAT are hard to trust as town reads right now. • The lack of reads. I don't know where your mind is at right now and it's alarming. • The (relative) absenteeism. Where you been brah? • The hesitance on Haru (although this mostly paranoia from the second bullet) | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Argument is circular I know but I'm bringing it up to help show that the bus scenario is quite credible right now, just think about how those discussions would tend to go in scum QT and it makes total sense. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 13 2014 05:46 justanothertownie wrote: I don't think Waves paranoia is scummy btw. what is weird is how he just took a huge dump on my contributions today without showing what about them was "shitty". I do a little I just don't have the willpower to punish it when he's still at least trying. Not trying at LYLO is like #1 on my top 1024 list of pet peeves and super good heuristic IMO. But a combination of paranoia and indecisive questioning at LYLO is shady too imo. It's ok tho we have plenty of time to kill him later if my instinct on it being shady is right. Still killing Haru today as there's like no way this dude is town. It's as close to zero as I've ever seen in this game | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 13 2014 05:50 justanothertownie wrote: Meh, maybe. I think that's a somewhat weak argument. More telling is that they both basically didn't comment on Haru before doing so. (Yes, I know gk said he would kill eden or Haru but that is basically it), Gk is the one I'm better with of the two (just not good enough to change course on probably). When did Obi decide Haru is scum? Like in a post somewhere ideally | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Gobble please check in whenever you can as well so I can know whether we can yolo CFD if desired | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 13 2014 05:54 justanothertownie wrote: I don't remember any post of him about that. He just voted in the voting thread. Fuuuuuuck I wish Gobble were here. Obi best lynch from this IMO. It makes sense for scum Obi to do this regardless of Haru's alignment and doesn't make sense for town Obi | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I can't read through thread well on mobile. Forgot all about that | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Please don't get mad Wave, just calmly reread the thread since LYLO started and please tell me that you objectively think that since LYLO you've been decidedly more active and open with your reads than gobble and JAT. From my standpoint you haven't been, which is where my worry comes from. Sorry that EODs are bad for you. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
@Wave: You really gonna try to bluff? Lol. Pls dude I've been busting my fuckin ass all day - shit, all game, although I really dialed it up in the past 48 hrs - trying to figure this out. You can't seriously say that I'm in "pretend to have helped" territory right now. Save the ego BS and tell me what reads you have, IDC if they're not super solid I just want/need to know where your mind's at right now. You mentioned the reads by POE earlier, you got anything else? (if not that's actually totally ok POE is 100% valid at LYLO) @Haru no I gotta tell ya bro it's actually nothing like Melee Mini. For one you don't have a second head just shitting town all over the place, for another you were around more from what I recall and were more engaged in the thread. Where's the followthrough on any of the posts you made brah? @anybody did Obi really say he was sheeping his town reads? Lol missed that. Obi can you post those town reads for me as I am stupid | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
##UNVOTE: HaruRH ##VOTE: ObiWanShinobi | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 13 2014 07:02 WaveofShadow wrote: Eden what did Haru do to make you take your vote off? Cause he hasn't done shitnfor me Nothing, but if I'm trying to pick the lowest value between -5 and -10, and then -5 becomes -15, I'm still switching off of -10. I feel like Obi's recent posts have been mega scummy | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 13 2014 07:14 WaveofShadow wrote: This is actually kind of interesting...random-ass vote analysis and doesn't mean much but in my experience scum are most likely to join a wagon after 1/2 position because it looks 'safe' Can you develop this a little more for me? I tend to agree but I don't follow this to a specific conclusion just by looking at it right now. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 13 2014 07:23 ObiWanShinobi wrote: That's it. I'm switching to Jat and I'm not unvoting. If you're town, you'll sheep me and be done with it. The lynch is now between me and Jat and fuck everyone else that thinks otherwise. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XTXx00K.gif) | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 13 2014 07:26 WaveofShadow wrote: EDEN YOUD BETTER BE RIGHT That's what I'm saying! But I feel good about this one | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
what actually happened is that obi said unconvincing things about it and then marv loudly said "we are not lynching obi" and I shut up and sheeped against my better judgment | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 13 2014 07:38 ObiWanShinobi wrote: FUCKING WHY DO YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE THE ENTIRE SCUMTEAM IS BUSSING ME RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THAT'S SO UNBELIEVABLY UNLIKELY. I just got through confirming to myself that busing is happening. I've also made several arguments in the 2 hrs or so since I've been awake explaining why a bus is pretty likely at this juncture. Neither of these were refuted (or if an attempt were made, not to my satisfaction). So yes. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 13 2014 07:43 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I said we had to lynch Haru because he wasn't voting, so even if he was town we wouldn't have enough votes to hit scum regardless. bye | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
10/10 flavor and actually accurate | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Rough game. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Man that was gonna be a hard LYLO to crack. Should have lynched Haru but again, can't see any way Obi or goodkarma or even gobble maybe doesn't get lynched the next day with both JAT and Wave being scum | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I haven't opened obs yet, this should be fun. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Looks like the obs qt was saying it for me almost. ...probably a really bad thing if everyone is calling your play "potential best scum play of the year" and you're town, huh. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 13 2014 08:12 gobbledydook wrote: To be fair, if every town was holyflare/eden/kush/marv level active town mafia wouldn't have a chance in hell. Disagree I was about 200 posts too active this game ~ Never Again My Friends ~ | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
But I never did anything about it and tbh I thought I was looking kinda scummy and was worried by LYLO that I would get in trouble cause I talked a bunch but was a lazy shit and didn't push anything Lesson learned Marv can I still get into power ranks | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 13 2014 08:15 WaveofShadow wrote: Of course it was. NKing marv when we did was too because he would have caught on. I have no idea who we would have NKed tonight though Would have to be me right? gobble still ML bait possibly and I would fit the narrative right for gk/haru/obi team | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 13 2014 08:15 gobbledydook wrote: I gotta admit I'm not experienced enough to being able to townread obi and goodkarma over jat and wos. Especially wos. I think I should have given more weight to the 'fell asleep reading 20 pages of jat' and my criticism of his vote association post. It didn't help that I never saw obi or goodkarma post anything of real substance. Does cavalinho always shitpost like he does here? I saw a similar game where gk had similar complaints as town and it briefly gave me pause, but I will never lynch/scumread people who I think are trying to solve the game at LYLO. It failed this time but I think I win far more situations than I lose with that heuristic over the long run | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 13 2014 08:19 HaruRH wrote: Also, I felt a bit sad that eden tried to use another game to attack me. I am also sorry for trying to pocket eden whole game. Sorry, I shouldn't have done that. Ughughugh I was on to the latter thing though!! Gah and then I let it go to get after Cav because... ????? I'm not actually sure I felt like the one thing that couldn't be the case was Cav town / Haru scum and of course that's what it was. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Haha. Never again. No johns here because you totally played me until the end (and then again at the end I guess huh, switching to Obi and all) but I think after our blowout last game and seeing you /in here I was looking to be more charitable than I normally would in interpreting things to avoid a repeat. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Good luck with everything! | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Man I'm not even kidding, at the apex of my brief mad at Wave earlier I thought to myself "what if he's talking about how easy this is because he and Haru are scumbuddies and he thinks he can save his partner and avoid a bus?" and my next thought was "no Simon that's fucking retarded what are you even thinking stop tinfoiling" | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 13 2014 08:31 justanothertownie wrote: Impossible. He bussed Haru in the beginning. ![[image loading]](http://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/jeremiah_johnson_nodding-Robert-Redford.gif) Nice. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 13 2014 08:40 justanothertownie wrote: Well, you told marv you would keep not fear killing him. You told someone that we don't need help deciding the nightkill.... :D Reading the obs warms my soul. Told me that. I remember double-taking and then going "nah whatever" ~ The Signs Were There, And We Ignored Them ~ | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Approximately 300 too many... | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
• Post less. I'm always gonna be an active poster but there wasn't any need or use for that many. Diminishing returns are real, I lost/forgot/changed my mind a bunch without explaining my reasoning and it's because I posted too much and overloaded myself. Literally gave myself long-term memory loss this game lmao • Push more. It's my town game bottom line. This stems from the previous point; I couldn't keep up with my own thought process and that made it impossible to push my reads. I sheeped way too much because I couldn't keep up with myself. • Trust instincts more! They mostly failed me at LYLO but I feel like if I'd listened to myself more before then and pushed then we wouldn't be in LYLO. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
@everyone: Is "kill people who don't try at LYLO" a good heuristic? Because I feel like rationally it is but empirically it may not be. I spelled out the logic in the thread and I think it holds, but obviously it was a flop this game and idk if it's a flop more generally | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
that's why i'm curious about the empirical side of it, of course the implicit assumption in "rationally it holds" when describing human behavior is "assuming rational behavior from humans" and that's always an assumption one makes not because it's always true but because you figure it's true more often than not. the empirical side of the question would allow one to determine whether or not the rational-behavior assumption is a sufficiently accurate one to make | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On August 14 2014 05:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: Then you played well in LYLO and townies didn't. It does not change the fact they should have not NOT been lynched if they didn't play right? Like i will never feel sorry for anyone who gets lynched because they did not play. They deserve it. EDIT: I mean, i don't even know what happened in this game, but i assumed someone got lynched in LYLO because they didn't put effort to the game. I mean tbh it's probably unfair to Cav to say he didn't put effort into LYLO but the heuristic was totally off lol. Like if you had just done POE based on "how hard do they appear to be trying to solve the game at LYLO" you would have 2 mafia in your town pile. RIP me for basically doing that... | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
| ||
