EPTThanks, GM and Foolishness and whoever else, for addressing this!
[Important] New TL Mafia Behavior Rules - Page 14
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Remember to post respectfully, but feel free to voice how you actually feel about the change | ||
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ghost_403
United States1825 Posts
Thanks, GM and Foolishness and whoever else, for addressing this! | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
not to mention that the majority of active regular's are vehemently against the changes. like prplhz, I am more concerned about the secretive manner this was 'decided' with, the way it was presented as inevitable in the op and the 'junta' that seems to be making broad based policy changes without consultation of the active player base. | ||
yamato77
11589 Posts
I'd like to know what people are so afraid of. If you don't think you can treat other mafia players like human beings in the game, I think you should be punished for it. Is that really so ridiculous? And yes, it shouldn't be just a slap on the wrist like the current "bans". This forum should be held to a higher standard than it is now. Obviously many of you disagree, but you aren't exactly being articulate, you're just fear mongering with wording like "junta" and "secretive" while undermining the entire point of these changes. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
Host | ||
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Epishade
United States2267 Posts
For me, I could easily see my experience being ruined by people resorting to insulting other players in-game. If that had happened in my newbie game, I'm not too sure I would have signed up for another. Idk how often that's actually a problem, but I really don't have a problem with people being nicer to each other. I'd support this, as little as my opinion probably matters. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
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justanothertownie
16320 Posts
On May 29 2014 11:45 ObviousOne wrote: Hosts have my support to host how they want to host. If hosts want to host with an iron fist, they can host with an iron fist. If they want a more relaxed, flippant game under their belt as a host, that is also their prerogative. Hosts can host how they want to host. Host Exactly. /thread | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
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Velinath
United States694 Posts
I'll try to post further thoughts later, but just got done with a 15 hour driving day so that will have to wait. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
This way we also avoid the tl-wide-ban whining and if someone asks Gmarshal why there are some threads so inappropriate for tl standards, he can say that it's just our "lowprio" games. Every lowprio dude will have to play 3 lowprio games before being able to join legit games again, granted he wasn't warned in these 3 games. Apart from few veterans who enjoy this kind of thing, I guarantee everyone else will strive to keep their names off from this list. Especially newbies. And even these people will improve their behavior after seeing what's like to be playing with 12 other dudes like themselves. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25555 Posts
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
On May 29 2014 11:05 yamato77 wrote: If it is so broad, why are people like Marv arguing that they aren't even effective changes? I'd like to know what people are so afraid of. If you don't think you can treat other mafia players like human beings in the game, I think you should be punished for it. Is that really so ridiculous? And yes, it shouldn't be just a slap on the wrist like the current "bans". This forum should be held to a higher standard than it is now. Obviously many of you disagree, but you aren't exactly being articulate, you're just fear mongering with wording like "junta" and "secretive" while undermining the entire point of these changes. Well, I think this is directed at me since I'm the one who keeps going on about "Junta" and "secretive" so I'm going to respond. I don't think it's ridiculous that you get punished for not treating other people like human beings. But isn't this already happening? Literally no one has come up with a concrete example of someone going too far without getting punished. If anything is fear mongering it's saying "if this isn't implemented people will continue to treat each other like shit" when you cannot produce a single example of that even happening without being punished accordingly under the current rules. Foolishness is even saying that everything is okay when he says "No one will have to change their behavior or playstyle". Do you, yamato77, want this to affect someone's behavior or playstyle? Well you're not going to get what you want then, at least according to Foolishness. Also, this is a complete Junta move. They're not even in here participating in a dialogue, or maybe they are because we largely don't know who they are. What I see here is GMarshall informing people that he will site ban them if they don't comply with something decided by a minority. Maybe I misunderstood all of this but that's just what I see and no one is telling me that I'm horrendously wrong and what's intended is for something entierly else. There is no compromise or middle ground here, there is no trying to make people understand these changes, there is no addressing concerns, there is only an OP and a few more posts and then the rest of the thread is full of unanswered "What?"s and "Why?"s. I don't even know if I'm going to get site banned under the new rules. Maybe I am? If I am, then I'd really like to know so I don't end up joining a game and ruining it for everybody else by getting site banned. But again, the Junta does not seem to pay attention to this thread. It seems like they're saying "Just accept this, nothing will happen" and then they're going to start site banning people. On May 29 2014 14:04 Blazinghand wrote: I think LPQ is a terrible idea and will only cause division and strife. Why is that? What do you even care if there's a subset of people on this forum who would rather play unmoderated games? There are Caller games right now and from what I know, they're more leniently modded but still popular. I have no idea why on earth you people want to banhammer people into conformity when there is room enough for almost everybody. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2014 14:55 prplhz wrote: Well, I think this is directed at me since I'm the one who keeps going on about "Junta" and "secretive" so I'm going to respond. I don't think it's ridiculous that you get punished for not treating other people like human beings. But isn't this already happening? Literally no one has come up with a concrete example of someone going too far without getting punished. If anything is fear mongering it's saying "if this isn't implemented people will continue to treat each other like shit" when you cannot produce a single example of that even happening without being punished accordingly under the current rules. Foolishness is even saying that everything is okay when he says "No one will have to change their behavior or playstyle". Do you, yamato77, want this to affect someone's behavior or playstyle? Well you're not going to get what you want then, at least according to Foolishness. Also, this is a complete Junta move. They're not even in here participating in a dialogue, or maybe they are because we largely don't know who they are. What I see here is GMarshall informing people that he will site ban them if they don't comply with something decided by a minority. Maybe I misunderstood all of this but that's just what I see and no one is telling me that I'm horrendously wrong and what's intended is for something entierly else. There is no compromise or middle ground here, there is no trying to make people understand these changes, there is no addressing concerns, there is only an OP and a few more posts and then the rest of the thread is full of unanswered "What?"s and "Why?"s. I don't even know if I'm going to get site banned under the new rules. Maybe I am? If I am, then I'd really like to know so I don't end up joining a game and ruining it for everybody else by getting site banned. But again, the Junta does not seem to pay attention to this thread. It seems like they're saying "Just accept this, nothing will happen" and then they're going to start site banning people. Why is that? What do you even care if there's a subset of people on this forum who would rather play unmoderated games? There are Caller games right now and from what I know, they're more leniently modded but still popular. I have no idea why on earth you people want to banhammer people into conformity when there is room enough for almost everybody. I'm actively reading the thread, and answering relevant questions. Its a little hard to reply to a bunch of posts basically asking things I've already addressed, completely misinterpreting the thread, or stating that "nothing is wrong", when a number of people have posted to say that don't play because of the atmosphere. No one has actually replied to my point that if we're going to promote tl mafia actively we can't look like a bunch of battlenet forum posters to any newcomers. No one is getting TL banned, I floated that as an idea because it was discussed, there was no vehement agreement, so its probably not happening. Are people actually reading my posts? because it sure doesn't feel like it. I said "this is an idea I'm floating" not: "BTW TL bans!" I'll reiterate. This was not some decision I just woke up and made, foolishness suggested tightening up the rules, then talked with the hosts, the hosts agreed, I made a thread instead of keeping it on the down low and not informing anyone. If this were really some kind of "junta" move, I assure you I wouldn't have made a thread about it. If I wanted to siteban people for bad behavior, I also wouldn't have to post a thread. Everyone is saying "why wasn't the community consulted?", when that's the entire point of me posting this, and of foolishness talking with people. I already brought this up after the last game I hosted, and nothing changed, so this is an attempt at more proactive action. I'm not going to be reading threads looking for people to ban, getting people banned is still *entirely* in the hands of the hosts. Seriously, let me reiterate for the 20th time, this is not an unilateral decision, I did not just decide to do this, foolishness discussed this with people hosting games, including people he thought would disagree. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5252 Posts
On May 29 2014 08:44 geript wrote: I'm just stunned. Like I thought it was pretty obvious by how over the top it was that I was being exceptionally sarcastic. It's the internet; sarcasm doesn't translate well. At first glance, and since I don't know you, I thought you were being a total asshole. I think it would be more sensible to not talk like that, lest people miscontrue what you say and consider you to be an asshole and not want to play with you. I have barely played in a long time so my opinion shouldn't be considered important imo, just some thoughts on this. I think the small amounts of Foolishness/GM/"Junta" + Show Spoiler + (wtf? why the us vs. them mentality) prplhz are you serious? unless you've changed a lot you're not going to be banned. seriously, you're not a flaming asshole, I have no idea why you're even a little worried. I guess I could say why I stopped playing. It was partially because of getting busy / personal issues, and partially because of getting flamed like crazy and it making me disillusioned with the game. Namely, FourFace flaming a bunch in some game (I forgot what game, he got TL banned), and Coagulation flaming me when I was on his scum team in Space Station Mafia + Show Spoiler + I forgot that was a nonbanlist game, so that was my fault for joining Yes, mafia is a game based on emotion, digging at people who are against you. But acting like a fucking asshole doesn't make you better at the game. It just makes you an asshole. The best people at Mafia, imo, don't need to resort to that. People cite WBG, but honestly his flames were controlled, clever. Not just haphazard vitriol. from what I can tell the changes aren't going to take away any of the useful tools people already use. honestly though, I think the people who actively play should have more say, since the changes will affect them the most. | ||
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hiro protagonist
1294 Posts
there is a reason I auto joined any game hosted by Gmashal and Ver, and thats because I trusted in them as host to keep things in line when need be, and you know what, those are always the best games on this forum. they have the highest level of play, and result in the most enjoyment from its players. many of the people arguing against this change also play in these games, yet they dont put 2+2 together to realize that simply enforcing the rules that are laid out results in higher level of play. their argument about how it limits the game goes against there own reasoning. I also highly agree with what yamato, strongandbig, and Ace have all said. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
Can you tell us who the 'hosts' that decided this for everyone were? | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
I guess given subsequent posts from foolishness which basically say what I was trying to get at, I see no reason not to let this fly for a little while. If it honestly turns out to be that big of a deal and a significant portion doesn't think the change is working out then we can have another drama thread like we're all so fond of and change it back. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
On May 29 2014 08:32 geript wrote: Don't do stupid shit then. God you're such a whiny whore Koshi. It's like Rayn hasn't been there to give it to you like you like it and Marv isn't picking up the slack. I'd write more but I'm not even quite sure that I haven't gone over the line already. User was warned for this post + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/004/403/Girls.png){kind=icon} | ||
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