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Detention Mafia - Page 61

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Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
June 05 2014 15:54 GMT
#1201
Because those posts have almost nothing to do with the case on him?
Computer says mafia
Amiko
Profile Joined February 2014
United States1725 Posts
June 05 2014 15:59 GMT
#1202
On June 06 2014 00:53 Amiko wrote:
(1) What about these posts confirmed it to you?

Amiko
Profile Joined February 2014
United States1725 Posts
June 05 2014 16:01 GMT
#1203
This just reflects why the point is good.

If the posts confirmed your suspicions, they should have content in them that leads you to read him as scum.

If the posts had content that turned your suspicions into a slam dunk, then you should be using them in your case.
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
June 05 2014 16:03 GMT
#1204
On June 06 2014 01:01 Amiko wrote:
This just reflects why the point is good.

If the posts confirmed your suspicions, they should have content in them that leads you to read him as scum.

If the posts had content that turned your suspicions into a slam dunk, then you should be using them in your case.
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]


I have no idea what you're talking about.

The posts did not confirm my suspicions.

The posts had no content that turned my suspicions into a slam dunk.

So... can you get me up to speed?
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
June 05 2014 16:06 GMT
#1205
Actually I know exactly what you're talking about, but the conversation is more fun this way. So go one, answer.
Computer says mafia
Amiko
Profile Joined February 2014
United States1725 Posts
June 05 2014 16:25 GMT
#1206
Btw, you didn't respond to this.

On June 06 2014 00:07 Amiko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2014 23:47 Palmar wrote:
I haven't played with NB before and I'm not a prophet. There is no way I can predict how she would react to me making a weak case on her. The case is still correct, it just doesn't mean she's mafia. That shit happens all the time in mafia.


You misunderstand why I posted bunnies reaction.
The post is that your case was not seen as serious, and when you pressed it people responded (as they should) doubting its sincerity. Bunnies' reaction just goes to show how little pressure your case provided. Anyway, you have nothing to lose by making that kind of case as mafia, maybe if you're lucky she OMGUSes you and you use that to try to support the lynch.

Show nested quote +
On June 05 2014 23:47 Palmar wrote:
Your case on Sloosh wasn't wrong. There is no point for me to argue about the merits of the case. In a world where MZ doesn't exist I would have just sheeped your case. I actually intended to do that until I got cold feet regarding how easy the wagon was.

Part of my case was that slOosh was M_Z, except more scummy.
If you thought my case was right, you shouldn't have been on M_Z.
If you didn't think that was correct, you didn't agree with me and should have tried to convince me on the merits.



Show nested quote +
On June 05 2014 23:47 Palmar wrote:
I don't waste time when I'm playing mafia. I see no reason to post when town is doing what I want it to be doing. I was okay with Sloosh getting the lynch until later in the day. If I was mafia and planned to defend him I probably would've done it earlier and not just based on wagon speed. But hey, ignore that.

...

I'm not this incompetent as mafia dude. When you drop the case I make a decision on what I want to do, and I either bus him for credit or defend him by breaking your case. Your case was good, you KNOW your case was good. If I'm mafia and don't want sloosh to die I would have to dismantle it immediately. Your explanation does not fit.


I scumhunt even when I think I have caught scum.

Anyway, you start pushing for M_Z only after fuba has made a case for people to switch to M_Z. I think you could accurately predict sqrt and Haru could be moved (because I thought they could be moved too).


Show nested quote +
On June 05 2014 23:47 Palmar wrote:
The backtracking strategy you're claiming is actually awful, because if I'm mafia I need two mislynches here, not one. It woul be ok if I needed just one. I can't do the "contemplate my reads" thing twice.

Why not? You just say "I guess I was wrong, so it must be XYZ"

Anyway, for all you know, the cop has no checks. It's possible that the cop checked players who had died. It's possible that you roleblocked the cop on days the cop would check living players. And, you don't know who the cop or medic are. If you are lucky, maybe Slam will flip as one of the blue roles.
For all you know, your strategy is a winning strategy because it's possible there will only be one blue (who you could kill tonight).

The idea that you didn't make a winning strategy is incorrect because it considers information you did not know. Given the information you did know, your strategy was fine.

Show nested quote +
On June 05 2014 23:47 Palmar wrote:
And you're risking the game on you being cocky.


If you are town, you certainly risked the game with your play on day 2 and day 3. It doesn't matter.
The game is at risk until it's over. That's the nature of the game.
(Anyway play has been pretty great, I can't believe you guys didn't roleblock me n2)

Amiko
Profile Joined February 2014
United States1725 Posts
June 05 2014 16:27 GMT
#1207
(To be clear, you didn't respond to the entire post, the green text is what I was particularly interested in but you can reply to the whole thing since you skipped it before)
sqrtofneg1
Profile Blog Joined November 2013
Canada1159 Posts
June 05 2014 16:34 GMT
#1208
Listen guys, this game is really really easy right now.
D2's vote count:
On June 01 2014 10:07 Blazinghand wrote:
Vote count:


Meapak_Ziphh (5) - HaruRH, Palmar, mderg, SlOosh, fuba, sqrtofneg1, HaruRH
slOosh(5) - Amiko, Alakaslam, HaruRH, sqrtofneg1, mderg, 27ninjabunnies, Meapak_Ziphh
Sqrtofneg1(0) - fuba

Not voting (1) : - gobbledydook


Currently slOosh is set to be lynched!

Day ends in



Sloosh was mafia, MZ was town. Therefore mafia should have voted MZ.

Palmar, SlOosh, fuba, sqrtofneg1, HaruRH voted MZ.

Palmar, SlOosh, fuba, sqrtofneg1, HaruRH

sloosh is confirmed mafia, I'm blue, haru is cop checked as town.
Palmar or fuba mafia.
We lynch one of them today, the other one next day. ezpz.
Imaginary
Amiko
Profile Joined February 2014
United States1725 Posts
June 05 2014 16:35 GMT
#1209
Before I respond, let me get this straight:

You suspected M_Z on day 1, but were not sure.
You became sure during night 1.
You became sure because of M_Z's inactivity.
Amiko
Profile Joined February 2014
United States1725 Posts
June 05 2014 16:35 GMT
#1210
sqrt I don't think I'll unvote Palmar but I want him to actually play the game before we lynch him, and it'd be nice to post more abba songs or pictures of gravestones.
sqrtofneg1
Profile Blog Joined November 2013
Canada1159 Posts
June 05 2014 16:36 GMT
#1211
Well, he is playing right now.
Imaginary
Amiko
Profile Joined February 2014
United States1725 Posts
June 05 2014 16:37 GMT
#1212
Yep
sqrtofneg1
Profile Blog Joined November 2013
Canada1159 Posts
June 05 2014 16:37 GMT
#1213
I guess if you pull off some wifom there is a possibility that mderg could be the last mafia, but that would be superb play by him.
Imaginary
Amiko
Profile Joined February 2014
United States1725 Posts
June 05 2014 16:38 GMT
#1214
Let's be honest, it's possible but it's too remote. Even if mderg had been on the M_Z wagon I think Fuba and Palmar would arguably make better lynches.
sqrtofneg1
Profile Blog Joined November 2013
Canada1159 Posts
June 05 2014 16:40 GMT
#1215
On June 06 2014 01:38 Amiko wrote:
Let's be honest, it's possible but it's too remote. Even if mderg had been on the M_Z wagon I think Fuba and Palmar would arguably make better lynches.

Yep. I'm not lynching mderg.
Imaginary
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
June 05 2014 16:43 GMT
#1216
On June 06 2014 00:07 Amiko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2014 23:47 Palmar wrote:
I haven't played with NB before and I'm not a prophet. There is no way I can predict how she would react to me making a weak case on her. The case is still correct, it just doesn't mean she's mafia. That shit happens all the time in mafia.


You misunderstand why I posted bunnies reaction.
The post is that your case was not seen as serious, and when you pressed it people responded (as they should) doubting its sincerity. Bunnies' reaction just goes to show how little pressure your case provided. Anyway, you have nothing to lose by making that kind of case as mafia, maybe if you're lucky she OMGUSes you and you use that to try to support the lynch.


Yes, this is the logical leap you keep making. You've decided I'm mafia and thus there must be mafia reasons for doing whatever it is I'm doing.

I don't know how bunny would react. If I'm right and she's mafia she might overreact to a stupid little case. If she's town she would probably brush it off like she did. There is a reason I posted it, and that reason is a town reason.

On June 06 2014 00:07 Amiko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2014 23:47 Palmar wrote:
Your case on Sloosh wasn't wrong. There is no point for me to argue about the merits of the case. In a world where MZ doesn't exist I would have just sheeped your case. I actually intended to do that until I got cold feet regarding how easy the wagon was.

Part of my case was that slOosh was M_Z, except more scummy.
If you thought my case was right, you shouldn't have been on M_Z.
If you didn't think that was correct, you didn't agree with me and should have tried to convince me on the merits.


Again, stop saying what I "should" have done according to your view of the game. In my opinion townies shouldn't lie but they do it all the time anyway. In my opinion townies shouldn't roleclaim on day 1, and again, they keep doing it.

I don't care if you think sloosh was the same as MZ, He did not write the post MZ wrote that made me want to lynch MZ, so by definition they are not the same.

But that doesn't mean I didn't think sloosh was mafia and wasn't fine with lynching him early on. I don't know why the idea that someone might actually take a flyer on a good case by a townread is so alien to you.

The only reason I ended up actually pushing for MZ instead of sloosh was the lack of resistance to the sloosh lynch (and it was pretty clear, aside from me no one opposed it all that strongly). Put yourself in my shoes for a second. I know I'm town, and no one is questioning this sloosh lynch. There is a reason I was suspicious of it.

[QUOTE]On June 06 2014 00:07 Amiko wrote:
[QUOTE]On June 05 2014 23:47 Palmar wrote:
I don't waste time when I'm playing mafia. I see no reason to post when town is doing what I want it to be doing. I was okay with Sloosh getting the lynch until later in the day. If I was mafia and planned to defend him I probably would've done it earlier and not just based on wagon speed. But hey, ignore that.

...

I'm not this incompetent as mafia dude. When you drop the case I make a decision on what I want to do, and I either bus him for credit or defend him by breaking your case. Your case was good, you KNOW your case was good. If I'm mafia and don't want sloosh to die I would have to dismantle it immediately. Your explanation does not fit.
[/quote]

I scumhunt even when I think I have caught scum.

Anyway, you start pushing for M_Z only after fuba has made a case for people to switch to M_Z. I think you could accurately predict sqrt and Haru could be moved (because I thought they could be moved too).

I don't scumhunt when there's one mafia left and I think I know who it is. I don't care if you think I should.

I already answered the bolded thing. I can't even remember fuba pushing MZ, in hindsight I was the first person to start person to actively try to change the lynch, and I tried to do it because I felt like there was no resistance to it.

[QUOTE]On June 06 2014 00:07 Amiko wrote:
[QUOTE]On June 05 2014 23:47 Palmar wrote:
The backtracking strategy you're claiming is actually awful, because if I'm mafia I need two mislynches here, not one. It woul be ok if I needed just one. I can't do the "contemplate my reads" thing twice.
[/quote]
Why not? You just say "I guess I was wrong, so it must be XYZ"

Anyway, for all you know, the cop has no checks. It's possible that the cop checked players who had died. It's possible that you roleblocked the cop on days the cop would check living players. And, you don't know who the cop or medic are. If you are lucky, maybe Slam will flip as one of the blue roles.
For all you know, your strategy is a winning strategy because it's possible there will only be one blue (who you could kill tonight).

The idea that you didn't make a winning strategy is incorrect because it considers information you did not know. Given the information you did know, your strategy was fine.[/QUOTE]

Nope I don't put my money on luck when I'm mafia. But that's subjective.

[QUOTE]On June 06 2014 00:07 Amiko wrote:
[QUOTE]On June 05 2014 23:47 Palmar wrote:
And you're risking the game on you being cocky.[/QUOTE]

If you are town, you certainly risked the game with your play on day 2 and day 3. It doesn't matter.
The game is at risk until it's over. That's the nature of the game.
(Anyway play has been pretty great, I can't believe you guys didn't roleblock me n2)[/QUOTE]

Not sure I would've actually roleblocked you if I'm mafia. I didn't get the feeling you were cop from reading the case on sloosh. It was pretty well disguised.
[/b]
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
June 05 2014 16:44 GMT
#1217
repost for format:

On June 06 2014 00:07 Amiko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2014 23:47 Palmar wrote:
I haven't played with NB before and I'm not a prophet. There is no way I can predict how she would react to me making a weak case on her. The case is still correct, it just doesn't mean she's mafia. That shit happens all the time in mafia.


You misunderstand why I posted bunnies reaction.
The post is that your case was not seen as serious, and when you pressed it people responded (as they should) doubting its sincerity. Bunnies' reaction just goes to show how little pressure your case provided. Anyway, you have nothing to lose by making that kind of case as mafia, maybe if you're lucky she OMGUSes you and you use that to try to support the lynch.


Yes, this is the logical leap you keep making. You've decided I'm mafia and thus there must be mafia reasons for doing whatever it is I'm doing.

I don't know how bunny would react. If I'm right and she's mafia she might overreact to a stupid little case. If she's town she would probably brush it off like she did. There is a reason I posted it, and that reason is a town reason.

On June 06 2014 00:07 Amiko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2014 23:47 Palmar wrote:
Your case on Sloosh wasn't wrong. There is no point for me to argue about the merits of the case. In a world where MZ doesn't exist I would have just sheeped your case. I actually intended to do that until I got cold feet regarding how easy the wagon was.

Part of my case was that slOosh was M_Z, except more scummy.
If you thought my case was right, you shouldn't have been on M_Z.
If you didn't think that was correct, you didn't agree with me and should have tried to convince me on the merits.


Again, stop saying what I "should" have done according to your view of the game. In my opinion townies shouldn't lie but they do it all the time anyway. In my opinion townies shouldn't roleclaim on day 1, and again, they keep doing it.

I don't care if you think sloosh was the same as MZ, He did not write the post MZ wrote that made me want to lynch MZ, so by definition they are not the same.

But that doesn't mean I didn't think sloosh was mafia and wasn't fine with lynching him early on. I don't know why the idea that someone might actually take a flyer on a good case by a townread is so alien to you.

The only reason I ended up actually pushing for MZ instead of sloosh was the lack of resistance to the sloosh lynch (and it was pretty clear, aside from me no one opposed it all that strongly). Put yourself in my shoes for a second. I know I'm town, and no one is questioning this sloosh lynch. There is a reason I was suspicious of it.

On June 06 2014 00:07 Amiko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2014 23:47 Palmar wrote:
I don't waste time when I'm playing mafia. I see no reason to post when town is doing what I want it to be doing. I was okay with Sloosh getting the lynch until later in the day. If I was mafia and planned to defend him I probably would've done it earlier and not just based on wagon speed. But hey, ignore that.

...

I'm not this incompetent as mafia dude. When you drop the case I make a decision on what I want to do, and I either bus him for credit or defend him by breaking your case. Your case was good, you KNOW your case was good. If I'm mafia and don't want sloosh to die I would have to dismantle it immediately. Your explanation does not fit.


I scumhunt even when I think I have caught scum.

Anyway, you start pushing for M_Z only after fuba has made a case for people to switch to M_Z. I think you could accurately predict sqrt and Haru could be moved (because I thought they could be moved too).
[/b]

I don't scumhunt when there's one mafia left and I think I know who it is. I don't care if you think I should.

I already answered the bolded thing. I can't even remember fuba pushing MZ, in hindsight I was the first person to start person to actively try to change the lynch, and I tried to do it because I felt like there was no resistance to it.

On June 06 2014 00:07 Amiko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2014 23:47 Palmar wrote:
The backtracking strategy you're claiming is actually awful, because if I'm mafia I need two mislynches here, not one. It woul be ok if I needed just one. I can't do the "contemplate my reads" thing twice.

Why not? You just say "I guess I was wrong, so it must be XYZ"

Anyway, for all you know, the cop has no checks. It's possible that the cop checked players who had died. It's possible that you roleblocked the cop on days the cop would check living players. And, you don't know who the cop or medic are. If you are lucky, maybe Slam will flip as one of the blue roles.
For all you know, your strategy is a winning strategy because it's possible there will only be one blue (who you could kill tonight).

The idea that you didn't make a winning strategy is incorrect because it considers information you did not know. Given the information you did know, your strategy was fine.


Nope I don't put my money on luck when I'm mafia. But that's subjective.

On June 06 2014 00:07 Amiko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2014 23:47 Palmar wrote:
And you're risking the game on you being cocky.


If you are town, you certainly risked the game with your play on day 2 and day 3. It doesn't matter.
The game is at risk until it's over. That's the nature of the game.
(Anyway play has been pretty great, I can't believe you guys didn't roleblock me n2)


Not sure I would've actually roleblocked you if I'm mafia. I didn't get the feeling you were cop from reading the case on sloosh. It was pretty well disguised.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
June 05 2014 16:46 GMT
#1218
On June 06 2014 01:35 Amiko wrote:
Before I respond, let me get this straight:

You suspected M_Z on day 1, but were not sure.
You became sure during night 1.
You became sure because of M_Z's inactivity.


Sort of.

Jabber's flip and re-reading MZ's posting also helped. I had become pretty certain when I posted that 95% post, but it was mostly based on earlier evidence.

And not inactivity precisely, but rather lack of commitment to solving the game. I don't care how much people post if they post the right things.
Computer says mafia
Amiko
Profile Joined February 2014
United States1725 Posts
June 05 2014 16:49 GMT
#1219
My point on M_Z is pretty simple.

On Day 1, you say that you suspect M_Z. At this time, the case is not a slam dunk. This is your excuse for not pushing M_Z on Day 1 as an alternative for jabber.
On Night 1, you become certain that M_Z is scum.

This suggests that something between your post Day 1 and your post Night 1 made you feel M_Z was confirmed scum.

You can lie about your reasons now, so let's look at your actual post at the time:
On May 30 2014 04:55 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2014 16:49 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On May 28 2014 16:43 Palmar wrote:
On May 28 2014 13:55 slOosh wrote:
On May 28 2014 08:51 Palmar wrote:
If someone isn't following why that last MZ post raises alarms (aside from the fact he's calling everyone mafia), I'll explain.

On May 28 2014 08:42 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On May 28 2014 08:26 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
You know what else I don't like?
Amiko's not as active as he usually is.
Yes, he's making big posts and big cases.
Yes, he has been the most substantial player so far, in terms of post content.
But he's not as active.
Other games, he's always around, asking people questions and the like.
This game, not so much.

You've thrown around a lot of suspicions this game. Instead of making a vague statement like this, interpret what it means. If you leave it vague like this, it makes it seem like you're just trying to throw dirt on him without actually having to take a stand. Instead tell us why this is a problem, maybe provide some examples if you're gonna cite his meta.


The bolded quote is very much not trying to figure out i's alignment. If MZ thinks there is any chance i is mafia, why is he trying to stop i from digging his own grave under the threat of "if you keep doing this I'll be suspicious of you!!!!". This looks like MZ wants to read i as town, while still looking like he's poking people.


Palmar could you please explain your MZ read more?


Which part of it do you not get?

"If you leave it vague like this, it makes it seem like you're just trying to throw dirt on him without actually having to take a stand."

This is basically saying

"If you don't elaborate, you're acting like mafia".

When in reality if MZ is town, he shouldn't care whether or not i acts like mafia, but if he is mafia. If MZ is town and thinks i is town his logical explanation should be

"If you don't elaborate, you won't convince anyone".

Because if MZ thinks i is town, he wouldn't care about i doing something potentially scummy for the sake of it being scummy, and rather because it is not helpful. However if MZ thinks i is mafia, why is he explaining the steps i can take to remove any suspicion MZ might have to him. It's like me saying "hey, you just made a case that is wrong, that is very mafia like. please make another case that is right so I don't have to call you mafia." It's just an absurd way of playing the game.

The only reasonable conclusion is that MZ must think i is town, and thus it makes no sense for MZ to point out something i does looks like something mafia does.

The reason I created in my head is that MZ knows i is town, and doesn't feel the need to call him mafia right now, but does leave the open-ended suspicion for use later.

Palmar that's honestly one of the worst posts I've ever seen you make and does nothing to change my opinion on your alignment. It seems as though you called me out, misjudged the thread's perception of me, and are now trying to back out of the read.


If I die tonight.

MZ is like 95% mafia. His response to me here has nothing to do with what I was saying in the post. Like it's beyond obvious he's not reading the argument at all and all he wants to do is discredit me.

What I was doing: Explaining why I thought MZ was mafia
What MZ claims I was doing: Trying to back out of the read.

The two are mutually exclusive damnit. I was explaining my read to someone who wasn't following it in hopes of convincing them, which is literally the opposite of trying to back out of a read.


Your post here actually points to actions that happened earlier on Day 1 - things you already knew when you were not convinced. So, it looks suspicious to me because you are grounding your certainty in things you should have already known.

Now, you are saying that M_Z became confirmed due to his inactivity.
This explanation is suspect and scummy because you don't make any reference to this basis in your earlier post.
(You also add in your most recent post that it was based on jabber and rereading M_Z, but neither of those points came up in your post, either).

In other words, your case against M_Z did not raise the points that you claim convinced you he was mafia
Amiko
Profile Joined February 2014
United States1725 Posts
June 05 2014 16:49 GMT
#1220
(I think you probably realized this, and that's why rereading is a new reason)
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