I'm now filtering gumshoe, will be posting one liners as I'm reading through it.
Hahahaha, gum <3333, that short description of me you made, haha, that's the gum I remember.
Gum immediately gets some town points because he asks for his cellmate for thoughts on me, not random people. I explained my reasoning in my previous post.
Ummm, gum defending getript, is weird. I will have to filter getript as well to form a better opinion. Btw I think it's weird not as a scam-defends-scam thing but because getript wasn't making much sense at first glance and I recall gum from our game together as a good player, albeit with some suicidal weird plans but good overall. -town points for that but I will have to check getript as well later.
I don't like how he blindly agrees with palmar on mayor'ing him. Pls vote people by their activity and quality of posts not by their reputation.
Hmm, gum gets some scam points for the following bit
On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote: Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn
Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment.
So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
~rayn
"Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play.
So your honest opinion is that you don't need to give away your alignment to anyone but everyone needs to do so to you?
Also another question. We have 2 imaginary groups X and Y. In group X there is confimed mafia. In group Y there are 3 people who are all really hard to read. Which of the following scenarios in your opinion results more likely in 2 scumlynches: 1) Lynch the confirmed scum in group X, and have 96 hours to figure out the mafia in group Y, or 2) Figure out the mafia in group Y in 48 hours, then lynch the confirmed scum in group X ?
As for your question, 2' because confirmed scum isn't going anywhere. They can be literally killed at any time and I rather lynch question marks while everyone is still invested in the game. I have taken on this mind set strictly because the setup holds no surprises. If I'm scum, why would I champion something like that if my buddy gets lynched by day3 anyways? What do I gain aside from towns ire?
Open the quote to read rayns question. Srsly gum, wtf, you shouldn't be making that kind of mistake. You basically proposed to scumhunt and coin flip the first day lynch so IF we get lucky we end up with 2 semi-confirmed scum instead of taking sowing what's ripe in day1.
Alright gum about that big meta post you did on rayn. Honestly I think it's bad, you claim he accuses you of scumplay and you quote 3 previous games to prove that somehow the meta works for you? You say that "ey guys, I lied there to scumbait, rayn was falsely accusing me, so I'm doing the same thing here", can't you understand how wrong this is? Rayn has every reason in the world to accuse you in both games. Anyway, I remember that was your playstyle as well in our game together so I won't award you with scumpoints for this but if you keep at it, you are getting on my scumlist, period.
You end up this post with
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum.
Again flawed logic, wouldn't I be the easy target here and not you, a player with 4 pages of filter already?
I like your comment on mderg
On April 02 2014 13:13 gumshoe wrote: Fun fact, Steve coag and Ceph have not yet started playing really, leaving them out, six people (myself included ) have openly attacked mderg.
I'm fairly confident that mderg is the scum in Cell 2. I'm probably going to talk with g more and see what we can dig up from this one, because I'm actually kind of afraid to townread HF after the stunt he pulled in Cultured (which was fucking awesome, btw).
I noticed this too. I asked Koshi what does he think of this mderg guy and he said it seemed strage how he came in straight up defending the one dude in our group. Too crazy that he instant defended a scumbuddy out of nowhere so if mderg guy ends up being scum gumshoe can die in a fire.
Whats your relation to Steveling, whats your general impression of his play and why did you feel the need to answer a question intended for someone else. Do you think Rayn is scum?
We can talk about plenty. How mderg's posts so far have been useless and scummy maybe?
Mderg is a lurky/noobish player, bad play coming out of him deserves due consideration. 50 percent of this games active players (I am not counting lurkers) find this guy scummy in a game where a third of us are scum. Yeah... lynching this guy is not getting us a red flip.
I believe there are some scum in this list you made gum. My personal opinion on mderg is that the only town read he has going for himself is when he defended me. He must have seen me posting in the football thread and he just said what he reasoned out. He's inactive or posting fluff, so I'm leaning towards scum for him but the bus'ing against him and the fact he's new made me think otherwise.
All in all I'm pretty confused with gum, I'm leaning neutral on him atm, can't make my mind.
Umm, page1 so far into raynkoshi's filter and I don't think I found anything weird. That getript has some weird posts.
Some pretty neutral town posts so far.
That post makes sense
On April 02 2014 10:21 raynpelikonoshi wrote: So i went to see if Holyflare is hard to read for gumshoe. Turns out he had a pretty clear read on him in World Heavyweight mafia game (where he was town) half past D1. I also found this:
On March 28 2014 01:30 Holyflare wrote: because it is so wrong, not reading your pm enables you to be towny because you have no hesitation about finding your partner at that point because you don't know who he is so your entire reason for voting palmar is incredibly weird.....
not to mention he actually claimed scum, why haven't you commented on that instead?
Cause I'm not there yet : P and I disagree, bieng readable is a big part of bieng town, if you make your self unreadable you can't be trusted. I'm not going to argue with you about this because it's retarded to think otherwise.
However as me and gumshoe talk about being readable in this game his stance is this:
On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote: Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn
Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment.
So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
~rayn
"Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play.
Here i present you our first...... Confirmed scumscumscumscumscum!!!! ezpz
~rayn
But I don't like how you jump on it, let's wait for some more posts from gum.
I can't speak about your slam suspicions yet.
And that's all I think? Pretty clear filter or I'm agreeing a lot with you, don't know which of the two. Probably a huge part of your filter is against getript so that's why.
You asked me earlier for an opinion on mderg, I stated that on my gum filter. You asked my which of you the 2 of you I think is scum, honestly I'm not sure yet but the signs are there and are against gum.
No, I said in my filter on gum that there are plenty of bad omens about him. It's just that I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt at least until he makes some replies.
On April 02 2014 19:03 Palmar wrote: Wait wtf, you're in the group with him and rayn, and you liked rayn's points about gumshoe, so you don't even have to think gumshoe is scum if you're town, you just have to think rayn is town, which you seem to do.
Are you the scum?
Fairly obvious you didn't read a single post of the previous page.
Well, if you bothered reading my posts in the previous page you would find out that I prefer sticking to my group. People that jump on other peoples' cells easy targets get scum points for me. So you get scum points by me.
About the other thing you said that if I agree with rayn I had to think that gum is 100% scum, I also explained that unfortunately this aggravating way is gum's style of playing. He may be scum yes but I want to see some more posts from him.
And what's the rush palmar, stick to your group, when the time comes we will see which player/players are most scummy, yes? You haven't provided a single read so far.
On April 02 2014 19:04 Steveling wrote: Can't argue with that.
Anyway, what about you rayn, you made a bold statement accusing gum, you still think the same? And what do you think about me?
I tentatively think rayn is town. He's a bit too angry for my liking but his point on gumshoe looked really town to me.
I thought you might be scum then I realized you're in group with gumshoe who I also think is scum, so now I'm just confused.
I don't really know what to make out of the fact Steve is not taking an harder stance on gumshoe scum but I think he is just waiting a return from gumshoe to make a "final" verdict.
Anyway. My group is going to get figured out Quite certain of it.
For the 3rd time already, I'm trying to say that from my experience with gumshoe his posts are kinda erratic, I don't want to jump the gun since in 2 previous games the same happened and he was towny. Can't phrase it any better than that.
On April 02 2014 19:19 raynpelikonoshi wrote: Steveling don't focus only on our cell. There is 4 other scum out there. Don't tell people to focus on their own cell. It's bad play. Pick a target of your choosing and give a read on them please.
~rayn
I didn't say I won't bother with other cells, just that each and every one of us should have an analysis of our cell first. After that we can do whatever. Ask me and I'll answer for whomever no biggie.
No, because people jump on getript or gumshoe. I don't want people to quote the same stuff again, we got it, these 2 are potential scum, I want to see new filter results.
On April 02 2014 19:19 raynpelikonoshi wrote: Steveling don't focus only on our cell. There is 4 other scum out there. Don't tell people to focus on their own cell. It's bad play. Pick a target of your choosing and give a read on them please.
~rayn
I didn't say I won't bother with other cells, just that each and every one of us should have an analysis of our cell first. After that we can do whatever. Ask me and I'll answer for whomever no biggie.
No i don't want to ask. I want to know who YOU think we should be focused on. I want you to weigh the possibilities because i want to know what YOU think is important.
On April 02 2014 20:39 Steveling wrote: I read your thing against mderg, holyflare and tbh I'm not convinced. Also I'm waiting for you to answer palmar's questions about mdergs meta filter.
Everyone with soft posts and inactivity and fluff is scum candidate but you seem way too fixated on him for some reason.
Regardless, if you don't agree with what i said then what conclusions do you draw from the people that agreed with me when i said it? Are they then mafia for sheeping onto a town or what?
First, if I had to bet on it, I'd say he's town.
Now about the people that bus'd him
Tehpoofter and getript seemingly blindly jump on him. Definitely suspicious for me. Gumshoe's suspicion I think is kinda silly, why would mderg defend me like that out of the blue, it would be literally the worst mafia play ever. Balla doesn't really hard claim him as scum as the others, he's just saying that his filter is scammy/inactive/fluff. So, can't form an opinion on balla based on that. Raynkoshi made the connection between mderg and gum but and raynkoshi so far gets a town read in my book so there's that.
On April 02 2014 20:43 Steveling wrote: Well, the way I see it, is you may be lying about his meta, he may just be a newbie player.
What's the point of Holyflare lying about someone's meta as mafia? That would make him scum for people for something he didn't really need to do in the first place. Also do you think he is lying or not, you are not really commiting to an answer? You just say maybe he is lying or maybe he is not, what's your conclusion. Is he lying?
~rayn
I'd have to read said filter first? xD That's why I said I'm waiting on it.
If mderg doesn't show any signs of good play there holyflare would be lying, yes?
Holyflare I said he has a scummy play, in my long post about gum. But the way people bus'd him plus he's supposedly a new player made me rethink. I don't deny his scammy play so far. But it's a stretch to fixate on him after a couple hours in the game.
Your view about him is documented, proceed to someone else now.
On April 02 2014 19:19 raynpelikonoshi wrote: Steveling don't focus only on our cell. There is 4 other scum out there. Don't tell people to focus on their own cell. It's bad play. Pick a target of your choosing and give a read on them please.
~rayn
I didn't say I won't bother with other cells, just that each and every one of us should have an analysis of our cell first. After that we can do whatever. Ask me and I'll answer for whomever no biggie.
No i don't want to ask. I want to know who YOU think we should be focused on. I want you to weigh the possibilities because i want to know what YOU think is important.
~rayn
Will do.
When are you going to follow up on this Steveling?
~rayn
Well, previous page I talk about/with holyflare a lot. I will filter one more dude right now though. Pick whomever you fancy. If you don't pick anyone I'd like to check out sentinel since he's low on everyone's radar.
Well whole first page consists of "mby we should lynch this cell first cause unreadable players" and meta, lots of meta, damn.
He had a bite at getript as well. Can't blame him but getript was an easy target.
There's one dubious statement, the one about the cell ranking, I'm not familiar with the setup we have in this game but I don't think it's a good idea. Plenty of time to scumhunt before we policy lynch an entire cell, lol.
Randomly proposes himself for mayor.
Surprisingly 3 pages and like 0 reads? Interesting and scummy behavior. Read your filter prplhz, not only do you not provide your own analysis but the only person whom you asked others to give insight into is yourself?
On April 02 2014 22:59 Palmar wrote: This game needs a power role so you can swap around people in cells if we want to.
Hey that's actually a brilliant idea. Set in a portal universe, also we could see how the dynamics between people change when we do that. Nice, mods consider it pls for next game.
Alright, I just had the time to properly read raynkoshi's case and gum's um, lack of debunking?
About the trap thing, raynkoshi's 1st point, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt gum. I explained earlier that I find that part of your game flawed but genuinely your style and mby town play. Same thing you did when we played together. You are still in the wrong but I'm passing it by.
The 2nd point they made is very very legit though. Rare are the cases where the town benefits if they lynch their own. That holds for a normal setup though, for this setup in which after each lynch a whole cell goes OUT of the game your "don't give a crap what you think about me" is inherently scum. I'm surprised you can't see it for yourself. I was willing to give you even more time to explain yourself right until that part.
Their 3rd point also stands and you still don't give a damn. You are not making it easy mate. You don't have my vote of confidence anymore.
Gum, when I started being active today first thing I did was filter you and raynkoshi. You can check my post on them, frankly I didn't find a single anti town thing. My view on them hasn't changed since then as well, their case on you was solid.
Anyway, we should get some heat from other cells as well, guys? Promote discussion pls.
On April 02 2014 04:42 LSB wrote: The most important feature of cell mafia is the ability to cull inactive players as soon as possible. This is interesting because this allows the game to maintain a level of activity and analysis demanded for the full duration, rather than it being a game between lurkers at lylo.
Activity is very town favored because it is easier to find mafia if everyone has to speak, than throw darts at lurkers.
I am going to rank players based on what I remember based on the most recent game in the TL mafia database
A - Active Players, solid contributions and good amount of posts IL - Inactive or Lurking players, little thread presence in the last game
This raiting is mainly to determine inactivity. Bold is for emphasis
I didn't look to hard, but if you had at least 8 pages of posts I considered you active and if you had long posts I counted you as active
Cell 3 A Palmar - Active in Default Suspicions IL Sentinel - Self admitted inactive and not in for the long haul ? Coagulation - Kushm4sta is active, but Coag can't post his seal.
Cell 4 A Balla24 - Active in Default Suspicions A LSB IL Alakaslam - Pretends to be Chez, but never back it up with analysis.
Cell 5 A Getmoript - Previous Hydra was active A prplhz - Active in Default supsions A Cephiro - Active in GMB
If we go by this we see that
Cell 1 and Cell 5 contain all active players. Cell 2 contains two inactive players Cell 3/4 contain at least one inactive player.
Based on this, my ideal order would be 2,3,4,5,1. Or 2,3,4,1,5
Ultimentally this data would be best supplimented by seeing day 1 post counts.
LSB brushes me aside because he knows I am town
Right now it is classy to call me scum before I say anything so
Resisting the urge to do this via knowledge of the opposite, leaves my lynch open without looking like a fool before I said anything
I'm trying to figure this out, because so far they have being very townish. But this is, well how should I put it, questionable?
Anyway, you can have your own opinion, illogical as it is. At least make a case against me so I can defend myself. X swore on his life so he's legit is not much of an argument. As I said earlier what everyone needs to do is defend themselves because a single lynch removes an entire cell from the game so I'll defend myself. Just try to find a proper reason if you can? Dunno, this play of yours is very bad.
And one last thing, ryankoshi, you didn't respond to that, what if I also swear I'm town?
Finally, I said 2 times already that a single lynch removes a cell and it's 1-0 for them. I will defend myself so I won't get ML.
But mates, you made a solid case on gumshoe, now you say you flip flop on him because he swore???? Even gumshoe himself will think 100% of you as scum now.
I don't know if you are doing this just to bait a reaction off of me, a la gumshoe style but this is borderline cheating. Can the mods speak up on this matter?
On April 03 2014 02:39 prplhz wrote: i accidentally invited you to scum IRC channel even though you were town
hhahaha, yeah, lol, I remember, lucky you I was too legit and actually closed my eyes and didn't see a single name. Well, besides yours which I didn't reveal at anyway with my play.
And now ryankoshi thinks I'm scum, I should get a TLMAFIA Peace award instead. I feel sad.
I'm just sad how some people can toss out their cognitive function and do something like this to mess this game up.
Take note that apparently what happened is not cheating so remember people, if you seem scummy and someone made a case against you, plead loyalty to them and swear oaths, full GOT style. There just might be a player in the game that will actually believe you.
Also, this is not me being just butthurt for getting some attention, this happens all the time in mafia. I think you can see why I'm upset.
I'm rly trying to not go awol on this game from this point on.
On April 03 2014 03:11 raynpelikonoshi wrote: Also you don't get to call my arguments bad without commenting on them geript. That's pretty BS and you do it over and over again. Why are my arguments bad?
On April 03 2014 03:30 Holyflare wrote: i also don't understand steve at all? he's complaining that rayn has flipped his reads and wants to quit the game? why does someone who is in your cell affect you at all? everyone has to vote on that cell so why does it matter if someone changes their reads based on someone swearing or not, especially if you think that other person is scum
that kind of reaction is....... yeh, not very natural looking
How do you not get it.
If I'm town I played well, confirmed my role and am promoting our agenda. If I'm scum I played even better, tricked my 2 cellmates into thinking I'm town and will secure 1 ML and a point for our team.
This changed because he went, sry for the adjective but it's true, retarded, no more no less. I don't like it one bit, mods saying it's not cheating doesn't make it better. Oh and all the while he speaks as if his retarded stuff makes actual sense.
You may say I overreact, maybe I do but I'm also right.
What's even more infuriating though is how this stunt he pulled doesn't raise any eyebrows. Like, how do they still get town reads after that. You guys messed up my football game I'm about to watch in 5mins.
Because gumshoe actually bet his life on his alignment? And betting is prohibited? Do you think swearing is something else than this?
Keep in mind that I could do the same and all this would be null, ryankoshi said so earlier, if I did this they would not target me with this anymore but I don't want to on principle.
On April 03 2014 03:56 Steveling wrote: Because gumshoe actually bet his life on his alignment? And betting is prohibited? Do you think swearing is something else than this?
Keep in mind that I could do the same and all this would be null, ryankoshi said so earlier, if I did this they would not target me with this anymore but I don't want to on principle.
Let go of this already. There is not a single player in this game who shares my stance. You look a hella scummy because you are overly defensive over an argument one player made and noone believes.
Why are you overly defensive? Do you think i can make all the people vote for you instead of gumshoe with an argument noone besides me believes?
~rayn
This is wrong. You made sound judgment all game long. You made a solid case. Then there's that. No it's not ok and I don't care that no one OBVIOUSLY followed you. If you can't understand that what you did is scummy and game ruining then we have an issue here.
The only hope I still have for this game to not be a complete and utter farce is when the other half of the players that are inactive take over tonight, realise what happened.
On April 03 2014 04:35 raynpelikonoshi wrote: So okay here is a TLDR from that:
You don't know why Steve would be scared as town You don't know why Steve would be scared as mafia Steve looks townie
You assume i could do a switch like that as town You assume i could do a switch like that as mafia I look scummy
It should be: You don't think there´s any reason for steve being scared as mafia steve looks townie
You think my switch has no reason behind it I look scummy
I also gave my reasoning for what i said. You can't just say "you have no reasons" when i have given my reasoning. So do you think my reasoning is bullshit? Because that's what you are saying if you say "you have no reasons", right?
~rayn
Your reasoning is so good mate, you don't even have to explain it. Your " BUT HE SWORE " reason is actually the unified physics theory in a tequila shot, gratz go grab your Nobel prize.
And yes now blame this poor mderg guy as well. We are unreasonable.
The only hope I still have for this game to not be a complete and utter farce is when the other half of the players that are inactive take over tonight, realise what happened.
No Steveling, you literally just claimed mafia or you are a hypocrite because you think my play is not reasonable but you do the same thing as you quit playing.
So which is it? Are you mafia or hypocrite?
~rayn
Actually I want to quit. But I'm a dota player, I'll bm you before I go and I'll even try to win this game despite your best efforts. Also it's halftime now on my game, xD.
You don't get it. What you did is wrong, plain and simple, gum shouldn't swear and you shouldn't have jumped on this. I could have easily A) swore as well, since you said you would drop all suspicions off of me B)Act chill because no one would believe you and jump on me
I didn't because what you did is fundamentally wrong in the mafia game. You ignored all logic, your logic, your case, with actually legit points because he swore and completely flipped on your reads. And you say that you have a reasoning.
You were confirmed town in my eyes. I had a town read in yours. If I hadn't overreact I would still be town to you. So why did you do that? Now I can't help but see you as scum, there is absolutely no reason to do what you did.
On April 03 2014 05:06 raynpelikonoshi wrote: Why is it so hard for certain people to understand I EXPLAINED WHY I DID THAT? Why can't you read Steveling?
~rayn
This is your answer? This is your reasoning?
On April 03 2014 05:09 raynpelikonoshi wrote: Yeah Steveling is mafia. I can use every reason to call people town if i am mafia. I can use every reason to call people town if i am town. There is nothing wrong with that. I can vote for who the fuck i want as either alignment. I am not doing anything wrong. He is overly defensive which he should not be if he thinks i am dumb or if he thinks i am mafia. The only scenario where he gets overly defensive is if i am town and gumshoe is town and he is pissed off at gumshoe.
~rayn
Really? You can use every reason to call people town if you are town? Srly?
First of all, you realise you haven't provided any argument, at all, yes?
Second, no you don't look at your magic sphere to call the shots.
Third, you assume we know you are town? Nice try.
I made fun of your argument, which is complete bollocks, you said that you had a reasoning and you said that
On April 03 2014 05:09 raynpelikonoshi wrote: Yeah Steveling is mafia. I can use every reason to call people town if i am mafia. I can use every reason to call people town if i am town.
That was your grant argument. If people don't fos you after this I don't know what's what anymore.
I explained the reason why I wanted(still want actually) to not post again, prplhz. The retarded situation with the swearing thing and now the other the fact that people aren't fos'ing him after that hollywood level stunt he pulled off. If you think that I'm an enraged scum, well nothing stops you. But it has nothing to do with my alignment if I may say that.
I have played as scum under pressure in one game and it was in a game with gumshoe. Ask him if I would react like that.
It's blowing my mind that ryan basically said " I can do wtf I want you maggots" and no one is questioning him. It's also tying it up with gumshoe when he claimed that ryankoshi twisted their argument to suit him. I didn't listen gumshoe, I'm sorry. I deserve to be killed.
On April 03 2014 01:36 raynpelikonoshi wrote: gumshoe you are a cheap player. I hope you are only cheap and not a cheap fucker who does not deserve any single bit of respect.
We lynch Steveling from our group.
~rayn
But what happened here? Wasn't raynkoshi all over gumshoe? Didn't they have a clear town read on me? The following is what happened I kid you not.
On April 03 2014 01:17 Steveling wrote: Gum, when I started being active today first thing I did was filter you and raynkoshi. You can check my post on them, frankly I didn't find a single anti town thing. My view on them hasn't changed since then as well, their case on you was solid.
Anyway, we should get some heat from other cells as well, guys? Promote discussion pls.
I adressed that case here
2: I apologize for that point ) : Honestly I was overthinking it, if we had CONFIRMED scum why lynch them then and there? I thought, towns are notorious for bieng lazy later on so I thought it no problem to just leave them till the last minute, they might even slip / :. That said, Rayn has twisted that whole conversation in 2 ways.
1: It stemmed from Geript doing Geript things, Rayn said he was confirmed maf which he doesn't even bilieve anymore
2: I meant in the case that we have 100 percent confirmed scum, which we will never have obs / : so yeah we should lynch the scummiest people first, I will concede that. But how does any of that make me scum? Why take on such a hard position.
Point 3: Contradicting myself. I'm not the best player man T_T Rayn pretty much is, if I make mistakes I'm sorry, I know it dont make your job easier none. The meta argument is so clear to me, but I guess I cant blame others for not seeing it / : and the whole me bieng a hypocrite for not considering you scum too is bull because I did consider you ) : and it was Rayn who dragged me into that fight.
But honestly forget all that man, listen to the thread, not one person this game has defended or backed me up / : (except you) am I really that gone? Is scum really that meek? I know that seems like shit logic, but it's just common sense really.
I dont play my heart out like this when I'm scum guys T_T but theres only so much I can do when I'm bieng attacked from every single angle.
What makes you think you would find something overtly scummy in his play? Best way to catch scum Rayn is to notice how bloodthirsty he is and this game his jaws are just dripping.
Hmm. Nha. rayn is pretty all over the place as town. More so than scum. Your own activity just makes him spend way more posts on you than "needed".
Also rayn has provided multiple scumreads and townreads. With reasoning that go further than "all scummers are after me, the scumteam is superactive"
Scummers are active bro, that be a fact of life.
We are not scum. We are not. Now let me tell you some harsh truth in case you are town. And I am only typing this because you swore on your life
Besides the question of why I strongly believe it's cheating and got mad about it. There's only one question here, why did they do that? I couldn't think of anything until I read multiple posts while filtering regarding the reason that scumryankoshi did what they did and it dawned on me.
Here are some tidbits
On April 03 2014 07:04 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: To me it looks like Steve doesn't have a concrete scumread, only a strong townread and a neutral read that has to be scum due to process of elimination.
On April 02 2014 18:15 Steveling wrote: I'm now filtering gumshoe, will be posting one liners as I'm reading through it.
Hahahaha, gum <3333, that short description of me you made, haha, that's the gum I remember.
Gum immediately gets some town points because he asks for his cellmate for thoughts on me, not random people. I explained my reasoning in my previous post.
Ummm, gum defending getript, is weird. I will have to filter getript as well to form a better opinion. Btw I think it's weird not as a scam-defends-scam thing but because getript wasn't making much sense at first glance and I recall gum from our game together as a good player, albeit with some suicidal weird plans but good overall. -town points for that but I will have to check getript as well later.
I don't like how he blindly agrees with palmar on mayor'ing him. Pls vote people by their activity and quality of posts not by their reputation.
Hmm, gum gets some scam points for the following bit
On April 02 2014 09:34 gumshoe wrote:
On April 02 2014 09:21 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
On April 02 2014 09:14 gumshoe wrote:
On April 02 2014 09:03 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
On April 02 2014 08:56 gumshoe wrote:
On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote: Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn
Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment.
So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
~rayn
"Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play.
So your honest opinion is that you don't need to give away your alignment to anyone but everyone needs to do so to you?
Also another question. We have 2 imaginary groups X and Y. In group X there is confimed mafia. In group Y there are 3 people who are all really hard to read. Which of the following scenarios in your opinion results more likely in 2 scumlynches: 1) Lynch the confirmed scum in group X, and have 96 hours to figure out the mafia in group Y, or 2) Figure out the mafia in group Y in 48 hours, then lynch the confirmed scum in group X ?
As for your question, 2' because confirmed scum isn't going anywhere. They can be literally killed at any time and I rather lynch question marks while everyone is still invested in the game. I have taken on this mind set strictly because the setup holds no surprises. If I'm scum, why would I champion something like that if my buddy gets lynched by day3 anyways? What do I gain aside from towns ire?
Open the quote to read rayns question. Srsly gum, wtf, you shouldn't be making that kind of mistake. You basically proposed to scumhunt and coin flip the first day lynch so IF we get lucky we end up with 2 semi-confirmed scum instead of taking sowing what's ripe in day1.
Alright gum about that big meta post you did on rayn. Honestly I think it's bad, you claim he accuses you of scumplay and you quote 3 previous games to prove that somehow the meta works for you? You say that "ey guys, I lied there to scumbait, rayn was falsely accusing me, so I'm doing the same thing here", can't you understand how wrong this is? Rayn has every reason in the world to accuse you in both games. Anyway, I remember that was your playstyle as well in our game together so I won't award you with scumpoints for this but if you keep at it, you are getting on my scumlist, period.
You end up this post with
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum.
Again flawed logic, wouldn't I be the easy target here and not you, a player with 4 pages of filter already?
I like your comment on mderg
On April 02 2014 13:13 gumshoe wrote: Fun fact, Steve coag and Ceph have not yet started playing really, leaving them out, six people (myself included ) have openly attacked mderg.
Geript
I'm fairly confident that mderg is the scum in Cell 2. I'm probably going to talk with g more and see what we can dig up from this one, because I'm actually kind of afraid to townread HF after the stunt he pulled in Cultured (which was fucking awesome, btw).
Tehpoofter
Makes me think Mderg scummy Sentinal town
Holy
Mderg is mafia in my group btw, that's an easy one.
Rayn
I noticed this too. I asked Koshi what does he think of this mderg guy and he said it seemed strage how he came in straight up defending the one dude in our group. Too crazy that he instant defended a scumbuddy out of nowhere so if mderg guy ends up being scum gumshoe can die in a fire.
It all fits!
Gumshoe
Whats your relation to Steveling, whats your general impression of his play and why did you feel the need to answer a question intended for someone else. Do you think Rayn is scum?
Balla
We can talk about plenty. How mderg's posts so far have been useless and scummy maybe?
Mderg is a lurky/noobish player, bad play coming out of him deserves due consideration. 50 percent of this games active players (I am not counting lurkers) find this guy scummy in a game where a third of us are scum. Yeah... lynching this guy is not getting us a red flip.
I believe there are some scum in this list you made gum. My personal opinion on mderg is that the only town read he has going for himself is when he defended me. He must have seen me posting in the football thread and he just said what he reasoned out. He's inactive or posting fluff, so I'm leaning towards scum for him but the bus'ing against him and the fact he's new made me think otherwise.
All in all I'm pretty confused with gum, I'm leaning neutral on him atm, can't make my mind.
I love this post BECAUSE it's riddled with uncertainty, this game is filled with people who have perfect reads (cause scum) it's a breath of fresh air to see someone who legit not sure of whose scum in his cell. If steve was scum, he could easily attack me or Rayn, and the way were going at it the non pick might just support his choice whole heartedly. Unfortunately for scum, steve is not just truing to survive his cell, dude be figuring shit out ( : good genuine effort in this post and a stance I feel is most likely town. Steve is cool.
On April 02 2014 12:22 Balla24 wrote: Gumshoe that case is all over the place :/ it's hard to follow (what alignments was rayn in these quotes?) but on the ending:
On April 02 2014 12:13 gumshoe wrote: Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end.
How can you say this is the most damning bit of all yet you literally just did the same thing and went 90% scum on rayn when Steveling has still "yet to open his mouth"?
Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly?
Rayn watcha think?
I used this to bait Rayn, but the fact that this exists means I thought out what his early lack of commitment might mean.
You and Rayn are firing off in every direction, trusting in your scum hunting skills to avail you I suppose, I on the other hand am pretty much zerod in on you because you are 50 percent scum XD so yeah, I can see why you might say that.
Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment.
Rayn pressed me into fighting him when I had nothing concrete to call him scum, I tried baiting him and my results were inconclusive so I back off until he pressed me into fighting with him and revealed his true self, also I clearly say repeatedly hes 50 50, therefore worthy of suspicion, but not 100 percent how does any of that reflect the mindset of someone completely set on scum Rayn from the start? .
So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
Here i present you our first...... Confirmed scumscumscumscumscum!!!! ezpz
~rayn
Like, read the fucking thread before you post Balla.
I think another key thing is Rayn doesnt once include sheer probability as a factor in his suspicion of me (like I do constantly, similar to a drowning man clinging to a raft) he presents his scum reads as if their derived from sheer skill and analysis, because probability doesnt factor into Rayn's convictions, he knows who town is and his reads will just continue to build up solely because he wills them to.
On April 02 2014 12:36 gumshoe wrote: Like, read the fucking thread before you post Balla.
I think another key thing is Rayn doesnt once include sheer probability as a factor in his suspicion of me (like I do constantly, similar to a drowning man clinging to a raft) he presents his scum reads as if their derived from sheer skill and analysis, because probability doesnt factor into Rayn's convictions, he knows who town is and his reads will just continue to build up solely because he wills them to.
What are you on about? None of that has anything to do with the contradiction you are displaying. You are calling rayn scum for being confident about his scum read on you even though Steveling has yet to contribute. Yet you are going HAM on rayn, even though steveling has still yet to contribute.
It has nothing to do with you attempting to bait rayn. What I want to know is, how can you call rayn scummy for that and say it's the "most damning bit of all" even though you are doing the exact same thing.
I backed off of Rayn after the fake case cause his response was fine, but Rayn came back for me and I explained why I lied. He then started hammering me as if he knew I was scum, whereas I was never certain of his alignment, only reasonably suspicious. He has always been far more suspect of me than I of him, I was just trying to read the guy whose in my group. Instead of talking shit Balla, show me proof that I was certain of Rayn's guilt before he was certain of mine and that I was more vocal about it.
The order of operations doesn't matter. Steveling has still done nothing, yet you are certain Rayn is mafia, and you call rayn scummy for being certain of you being mafia even though Steveling has done nothing.
On April 02 2014 12:13 gumshoe wrote: Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end.
On April 03 2014 12:19 Tehpoofter wrote: So I'm really glad that I just read through 20 pages of gum/rayn fighting. Going into it I had a town read on rayn scum on gum and null on steve.
On April 03 2014 00:59 gumshoe wrote: Rayn, we agree steve is town, can we agree to vote him mayor?
On April 02 2014 19:04 Steveling wrote: Can't argue with that.
Anyway, what about you rayn, you made a bold statement accusing gum, you still think the same? And what do you think about me?
I tentatively think rayn is town. He's a bit too angry for my liking but his point on gumshoe looked really town to me.
I thought you might be scum then I realized you're in group with gumshoe who I also think is scum, so now I'm just confused.
Steve his filterdive of gumshoe touches a lot of points I didn't like about gumshoe. Like the strange defense of gum to geript. If we take into account Steve didn't yet filter my hydra makes me feel good about him.
I don't really know what to make out of the fact Steve is not taking an harder stance on gumshoe scum but I think he is just waiting a return from gumshoe to make a "final" verdict.
Anyway. My group is going to get figured out Quite certain of it.
Does it not bother you at all that Steve's approach seems to be "Keep all my options open"?
Palmar aks ryankoshi about my opinion on both ryankoshi and gumshoe. Yes, as a matter of fact they do mind, not as town but as scum. They do care that I have not yet sided completely with them. They do mind that there is a slight chance of me turning against them and siding with gum and they want none of this. Everyone and their mama had me cleared as town, like most of the active players. Those who didn't read me as town read me as neutral and ryankoshi were crapping their pants because I wasn't that aggressive against gum.
So, they had to go back to gum's and mine filters to try and find the tinniest, silliest, most illogical thread of garbage excuse to try and do a 180 on gum and turn on me. And they did exactly that, the oath excuse. (facepalm)
This is what they answered, when I asked what if I did the same then, what if I also swore on town?
On April 03 2014 02:23 Steveling wrote: And one last thing, ryankoshi, you didn't respond to that, what if I also swear I'm town?
rayn will stop caring about our lynch. Koshi will lynch gumshoe.
people will be mad after the game.
This is their argument, the whole of it.
Here's my fav quote of them in this game so far
On April 03 2014 05:09 raynpelikonoshi wrote: Yeah Steveling is mafia. I can use every reason to call people town if i am mafia. I can use every reason to call people town if i am town. There is nothing wrong with that. I can vote for who the fuck i want as either alignment. ~rayn
Who needs logic right?
Anyway, I also find it weird he's so up against getript. Getript didn't really make much sense in the first few hours but ryankoshi treats him like hitler with no solid points against him. On the other hand they had some solid points against gumshoe but we know what it takes to flip their mind, )). Getript has him in his scum list, ryankoshi feel compelled to strike back because they are scum, simple as that.
As for the mayor part, I wouldn't vote for getript because of his early game, even though the fact he's against ryankoshi makes me like him. I'd say holyflare would be my n1 choice for mayor atm. Palmar is just too inactive.
Oh and gumshoe, don't make the same mistake I did with you, don't respond to their guile 180 turn away from you. Instead, trust logic
This is a few choice qoutes from Rayn's play in witchcraft 2, where he orchestrated a mislynch on me day 1.
Looking the playerlist you are the guy i can work with the best. I can't read OO for shit. I hope Cephiro does not do dumb stuff like he did in Hogwarts. Lurk Sylencia = lynch, otherwise idk Sn0dude played really well in Hogwarts, i except that from him here aswell. gumshoe .... thrawn i misread on Desert until he actually started making sense, hope he does that too here Umasi was good in some game as town i think? Says nothing = lynch Onegu is tricky, damn he was tricky in Hogwarts. A guy to read closely. ET is town or scum at last N1, based purely on Hogwarts. hzflank i can read. Vanesco noob, no idea. contribute or die.
and yeah, that's it.
After second reading gumshoe's big post was really bad and could have been all said in 10 words. Apparently that was a fake post too..
I am also trying to be not pissed off with gumshoe but it's really hard..
Probably someone from gumshoe/Umasi/Onegu depending on what happens tomorrow. thrawn stared making sense.
##Vote: gumshoe just because i do not like anything he has said this game.
bh no, i do not remember his play from Basterd. I remember he claimed on N1 but i don't even remember why. After that he has been modkilled for inactivity or soht because i accidently outed him as blue (in a game i somehow thought everyone was blue) while he did pretty much nothing. 50% of my case on him is that i want him to actually say something uselful and 50% is that what he has said is either faked for no reason or useless contributions or something that makes no sense to me.
Pretty harsh on me in general, take a good look at that last qoute, notice how Rayn believes my meta works against me there? Next Compare all those lines to these ones that make up Rayn's current stance on me.
I read bla bla bla can't tell if true or false because impossilble to know if he went to sleep or not.
I dunno, why should i think something? getmoript is mafia agreed or not?
~rayn
I am trying so hard to think about this post and what the fuck is the point of all this. gumshoe what's the point of all this? On April 02 2014 06:22 gumshoe wrote: I'm just curios if you had thoughts on steve, or any history with him I should know of / :
I don't believe this. I don't believe this for one second.
So i went to see if Holyflare is hard to read for gumshoe. Turns out he had a pretty clear read on him in World Heavyweight mafia game
That last quote here also has my meta working against me and in general theres an overall tone of disdain once again in Rayn's voice, just like in Witchcraft, another funny thing is that I actually lied in witchcraft as well to try and bait scum, just like I did this game. Rayn knows exactly what I'm capable of and how to exploit that and of course he hammers me for it in this game just like hes done before.
Witch
gumshoe's contributions in Basterd have a clear point, are transparent and every time they reach to a hard conclusion. None of those things happen in this game and half of his filter anyways is useless because it's about fake case that either serves no purpose if he is town or he just fucked up and is making stuff up if he is scum.
Cell
So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
Next up, look at this recent game where were both town for comparison.
gumshoe i am interested. Do you think Palmar is mafia?
see gumshoe here is my problem. I am a player who asks questions, obviously. When i ask questions, assuming i am not questioning something i do not understand, there are expected answers: 1) scummy type of answer, or townie type of answer, or both 2) answer i did not expect which leads to further investigation
Now i don't always expect people to understand why i do ask questions i do in the first place. That would defeat the purpose of my play in total. If you can tell what my question is going to achieve you know (as mafia) how you should be answering it. Right?
So, my question to you is: I don't understand why do you assume Palmar should assume what i am thinking and why i ask what i do. How do you suggest town!Palmar should read me if he is not "allowed" to figure out my motives behind my posts? Or do you think it's reasonable to assume Palmar should have realized what i was after? Did you know what i expected town!gumshoe to answer when i asked you my question?
I think the confusing part here is that gumshoe assumes/says Palmar thought i was scummy for my question and therefore questioned me. Not that Palmar was trying to get a read on me.
gumshoe how do you ended up to this conclusion in the first place?
Anyways that smiley makes me see red every time i see it, except for when gumshoe does it. Just because gumshoe is so adorable.
I have been really really sure since i started telling him why i thought his case on Palmar was dumb and started explaining him what Palmar meant with his posts.
Take note of the last quote, he thinks I'm town here because of dumb stubborn play, whats different this game Rayn? Also the tone, while still inquisitive, is much lighter than that of the excerpts from the first two sets listed.
Scum like sure things, Rayn has had success beating me straight up before, he feels confident he can do it again. A good example of this kind of behaviour in scum is how Suki went after cav in cultured the same way she did in the first newbie game they played together. The prefer to tackle targets who they can beat, thats why from the get go Rayn has been spinning everything I say as scummy, watch how he twists what I say and do over and over again.
HE WANTS TO FUCKING LYNCH TOWNIES!! SERIOUSLY GUMSHOE????
Here he attacks me for defending "confirmed scum" geript, of course Geript is not 100 percent scum and Rayn admits as much himself later on here,
So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"?
What I mean here is that I suspect hes scum, therefore why do I need to tell him anything that would worsen my odds of catching him. Of course he zeros in on the "you dont owe me anything" part because thats what his agenda calls for, he will tear apart all my statements and alter to them just to make me look bad.
Heres another example of Rayns twister skills.
gumshoe which players from the playerlist would you consider unreadable?
After I answer him honestly, Rayn comes back with this.
So i went to see if Holyflare is hard to read for gumshoe. Turns out he had a pretty clear read on him in World Heavyweight mafia game (where he was town) half past D1. I also found this:
Cause I'm not there yet : P and I disagree, bieng readable is a big part of bieng town, if you make your self unreadable you can't be trusted. I'm not going to argue with you about this because it's retarded to think otherwise.
To adress the bolded first, he completley disregards cultured mafia, the game where Holy bussed his team and completley blind sided me/town, I had this much to say to Holy afterwards
cant bilieve you massacred your team like that, dont listen to what anyone says (not that you would) that takes 3 testicles and no heart, wp sir. At the end of day I was willing to lynch every other person in the game (myself included probally) before you, and that sentiment carried through all the way to lylo. Hope we can play more games like this in the future ( :
Of course, Rayn pretends this game never happens because it doesn't fit his narrative, and thats what hes doing guys, hes crafting a narrative, telling us all a bedtime story so he can slit our throats and steal our shit while we sleep.
As for his point about me contradicting myself, first of all let me ask you, does inconsistency a scum make? No, motive and/or a lack of effort do and my actions suggest neither (I have contributed since games start and made suggestions that scum would pale at the mere thought of uttering). That said, hes twisting the truth here yet again.
"Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play.
I care what town thinks of me and I'm trying to prove my alignment through contribution, I do not however give a shit what my top scum read thinks and I will lie all day to him until he flips red or reasonably proves himself to be green. He twists this into me not caring about what town thinks as a whole, when in reality anyone who actually reads what I'm saying for themselves can pretty much tell that my words are directed at Rayn and Rayn alone.
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end.
gumshoe: "The most daming thing is that rayn thinks I am scum while Steveling has yet to open his mouth, rayn and I should be 50/50 to each other, him pushing me as scum is scummy. But my conclusion is that rayn is 90% scum."
-ok then gumshoe-
I have considered that steve is scum at every point in this game, just because I made a play to try to read you early on doesn't mean I was 100 percent sure your scum out of the gates. In fact I backed off after your answer because it was fine. You came back after me because you were so sure my lie made me scum, even though you know I bait as town. I was just figuring out your alignment, like you should be doing instead of blindly considering me scum before Steve talks. Go ahead and call me a hypocrite but I have expressed fear that he might be scum throughout every point of this game, even at the time of my big post I said you were 90 percent, not 100.
Also I love how your team keeps poking away at this one bit because you can't deny your playing exactly the same as witchcraft. How is this game different Rayn? How are you scum reading me here for the same play you'd town read me in any other game? How does a mderg, gumshoe scum team fit? Do you honestly think mderg is scum when half the active players called him red? Even though we know he's capable of shit play and getting jumped for it?
Also have you rescinded you ez pz scum read on me? Because right now I'm fairly certain your scum, but no I'm not completely sure and have never been, because I'm town. Show me evidence instead of generically calling me a hypocrite, you will not find anything as damning as "ezpz confirmed scum" your point is mute rayn / : what bullshit do you offer next?
Also gonna say this, Mderg is 100 percent town, I don't like the other people in his group, his play is in line with what I imagine of him as town and theres been too much gleeful drive on him. Even if I'm scum, he's town, consider his alignment a gift regardless of mine.
fairly certain I am scum. Why? Explain pls.
In witch, everything your scum reads said reaffirmed your biases, it's the same here.
In that game, you found my fake post was scummy just like here
In that game, you thought my meta worked against me just like here,
In that game, everything I said convinced you that I was more scum.
That, and your so certain even before steve talks.
I have been in this situation before Rayn / : the similarity is uncanny.
Palmar don't you find their reason for turning away from gum suspicious after they themselves had some solid points against? You do realise that even now I could swear as well to force them to back off? This is retarded.
Oh and btw I read that ridiculous alakaslam posting. No it doesn't make me happy that he finds me town with that kind of posting as much as ryankoshi finding me scum with his. Do you guys throw your braincells outside before starting a mafia game?
It seems you have double standards here. I explained my reasoning, you admitted it is weak but it's logical. Then you say that rayn has no logical train of thought at all yet you side with him.
On April 03 2014 20:06 Holyflare wrote: Steve do you understand the mechanics in this game? You say rayn has to convince you to go on gumshoe but why does your vote matter? Everyone in this game has to vote on every cell so his change of read has no incentive as mafia.
Between that and the qt sharing thing yesterday I think I'm the only one understanding the rules.
On April 03 2014 20:06 Holyflare wrote: Steve do you understand the mechanics in this game? You say rayn has to convince you to go on gumshoe but why does your vote matter? Everyone in this game has to vote on every cell so his change of read has no incentive as mafia.
Between that and the qt sharing thing yesterday I think I'm the only one understanding the rules.
Stop talking in useless cryptics and explain your shit. You say rayn is scum because he was on gumshoe and it was a strong case. If everyone was following that case then everyone would vote gumshoe and then if rayn was scum it would be a victory. Why does he need to switch to you for any reason whatsoever?
Since you are asking me twice.
On April 03 2014 02:50 Holyflare wrote: rayn and koshi had already done some copy/pasting earlier in the game, geript has not raged on about it at all and has taken the stance now that he won't paste it despite it already being done in this game before
the only explanation is that his qt is full of scummy shit and he can't paraphrase it straight away without forging some bs play
You know all too well to what I'm referring, are you lying or what? The proof of what exactly happened is in other people's filter and I won't bother with that.
Well, both of you holyflare and palmar asked me to not ragequit but you are ignoring my read on ryan. When you believe him over me after what he did I can't really do much more.
On April 03 2014 01:36 raynpelikonoshi wrote: gumshoe you are a cheap player. I hope you are only cheap and not a cheap fucker who does not deserve any single bit of respect.
We lynch Steveling from our group.
~rayn
But what happened here? Wasn't raynkoshi all over gumshoe? Didn't they have a clear town read on me? The following is what happened I kid you not.
On April 03 2014 01:17 Steveling wrote: Gum, when I started being active today first thing I did was filter you and raynkoshi. You can check my post on them, frankly I didn't find a single anti town thing. My view on them hasn't changed since then as well, their case on you was solid.
Anyway, we should get some heat from other cells as well, guys? Promote discussion pls.
I adressed that case here
2: I apologize for that point ) : Honestly I was overthinking it, if we had CONFIRMED scum why lynch them then and there? I thought, towns are notorious for bieng lazy later on so I thought it no problem to just leave them till the last minute, they might even slip / :. That said, Rayn has twisted that whole conversation in 2 ways.
1: It stemmed from Geript doing Geript things, Rayn said he was confirmed maf which he doesn't even bilieve anymore
2: I meant in the case that we have 100 percent confirmed scum, which we will never have obs / : so yeah we should lynch the scummiest people first, I will concede that. But how does any of that make me scum? Why take on such a hard position.
Point 3: Contradicting myself. I'm not the best player man T_T Rayn pretty much is, if I make mistakes I'm sorry, I know it dont make your job easier none. The meta argument is so clear to me, but I guess I cant blame others for not seeing it / : and the whole me bieng a hypocrite for not considering you scum too is bull because I did consider you ) : and it was Rayn who dragged me into that fight.
But honestly forget all that man, listen to the thread, not one person this game has defended or backed me up / : (except you) am I really that gone? Is scum really that meek? I know that seems like shit logic, but it's just common sense really.
I dont play my heart out like this when I'm scum guys T_T but theres only so much I can do when I'm bieng attacked from every single angle.
What makes you think you would find something overtly scummy in his play? Best way to catch scum Rayn is to notice how bloodthirsty he is and this game his jaws are just dripping.
Hmm. Nha. rayn is pretty all over the place as town. More so than scum. Your own activity just makes him spend way more posts on you than "needed".
Also rayn has provided multiple scumreads and townreads. With reasoning that go further than "all scummers are after me, the scumteam is superactive"
Scummers are active bro, that be a fact of life.
We are not scum. We are not. Now let me tell you some harsh truth in case you are town. And I am only typing this because you swore on your life
Besides the question of why I strongly believe it's cheating and got mad about it. There's only one question here, why did they do that? I couldn't think of anything until I read multiple posts while filtering regarding the reason that scumryankoshi did what they did and it dawned on me.
On April 03 2014 07:04 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: To me it looks like Steve doesn't have a concrete scumread, only a strong townread and a neutral read that has to be scum due to process of elimination.
On April 02 2014 18:15 Steveling wrote: I'm now filtering gumshoe, will be posting one liners as I'm reading through it.
Hahahaha, gum <3333, that short description of me you made, haha, that's the gum I remember.
Gum immediately gets some town points because he asks for his cellmate for thoughts on me, not random people. I explained my reasoning in my previous post.
Ummm, gum defending getript, is weird. I will have to filter getript as well to form a better opinion. Btw I think it's weird not as a scam-defends-scam thing but because getript wasn't making much sense at first glance and I recall gum from our game together as a good player, albeit with some suicidal weird plans but good overall. -town points for that but I will have to check getript as well later.
I don't like how he blindly agrees with palmar on mayor'ing him. Pls vote people by their activity and quality of posts not by their reputation.
Hmm, gum gets some scam points for the following bit
On April 02 2014 09:34 gumshoe wrote:
On April 02 2014 09:21 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
On April 02 2014 09:14 gumshoe wrote:
On April 02 2014 09:03 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
On April 02 2014 08:56 gumshoe wrote:
On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote: Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn
Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment.
So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
~rayn
"Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play.
So your honest opinion is that you don't need to give away your alignment to anyone but everyone needs to do so to you?
Also another question. We have 2 imaginary groups X and Y. In group X there is confimed mafia. In group Y there are 3 people who are all really hard to read. Which of the following scenarios in your opinion results more likely in 2 scumlynches: 1) Lynch the confirmed scum in group X, and have 96 hours to figure out the mafia in group Y, or 2) Figure out the mafia in group Y in 48 hours, then lynch the confirmed scum in group X ?
As for your question, 2' because confirmed scum isn't going anywhere. They can be literally killed at any time and I rather lynch question marks while everyone is still invested in the game. I have taken on this mind set strictly because the setup holds no surprises. If I'm scum, why would I champion something like that if my buddy gets lynched by day3 anyways? What do I gain aside from towns ire?
Open the quote to read rayns question. Srsly gum, wtf, you shouldn't be making that kind of mistake. You basically proposed to scumhunt and coin flip the first day lynch so IF we get lucky we end up with 2 semi-confirmed scum instead of taking sowing what's ripe in day1.
Alright gum about that big meta post you did on rayn. Honestly I think it's bad, you claim he accuses you of scumplay and you quote 3 previous games to prove that somehow the meta works for you? You say that "ey guys, I lied there to scumbait, rayn was falsely accusing me, so I'm doing the same thing here", can't you understand how wrong this is? Rayn has every reason in the world to accuse you in both games. Anyway, I remember that was your playstyle as well in our game together so I won't award you with scumpoints for this but if you keep at it, you are getting on my scumlist, period.
You end up this post with
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum.
Again flawed logic, wouldn't I be the easy target here and not you, a player with 4 pages of filter already?
I like your comment on mderg
On April 02 2014 13:13 gumshoe wrote: Fun fact, Steve coag and Ceph have not yet started playing really, leaving them out, six people (myself included ) have openly attacked mderg.
Geript
I'm fairly confident that mderg is the scum in Cell 2. I'm probably going to talk with g more and see what we can dig up from this one, because I'm actually kind of afraid to townread HF after the stunt he pulled in Cultured (which was fucking awesome, btw).
Tehpoofter
Makes me think Mderg scummy Sentinal town
Holy
Mderg is mafia in my group btw, that's an easy one.
Rayn
I noticed this too. I asked Koshi what does he think of this mderg guy and he said it seemed strage how he came in straight up defending the one dude in our group. Too crazy that he instant defended a scumbuddy out of nowhere so if mderg guy ends up being scum gumshoe can die in a fire.
It all fits!
Gumshoe
Whats your relation to Steveling, whats your general impression of his play and why did you feel the need to answer a question intended for someone else. Do you think Rayn is scum?
Balla
We can talk about plenty. How mderg's posts so far have been useless and scummy maybe?
Mderg is a lurky/noobish player, bad play coming out of him deserves due consideration. 50 percent of this games active players (I am not counting lurkers) find this guy scummy in a game where a third of us are scum. Yeah... lynching this guy is not getting us a red flip.
I believe there are some scum in this list you made gum. My personal opinion on mderg is that the only town read he has going for himself is when he defended me. He must have seen me posting in the football thread and he just said what he reasoned out. He's inactive or posting fluff, so I'm leaning towards scum for him but the bus'ing against him and the fact he's new made me think otherwise.
All in all I'm pretty confused with gum, I'm leaning neutral on him atm, can't make my mind.
I love this post BECAUSE it's riddled with uncertainty, this game is filled with people who have perfect reads (cause scum) it's a breath of fresh air to see someone who legit not sure of whose scum in his cell. If steve was scum, he could easily attack me or Rayn, and the way were going at it the non pick might just support his choice whole heartedly. Unfortunately for scum, steve is not just truing to survive his cell, dude be figuring shit out ( : good genuine effort in this post and a stance I feel is most likely town. Steve is cool.
On April 02 2014 12:22 Balla24 wrote: Gumshoe that case is all over the place :/ it's hard to follow (what alignments was rayn in these quotes?) but on the ending:
On April 02 2014 12:13 gumshoe wrote: Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end.
How can you say this is the most damning bit of all yet you literally just did the same thing and went 90% scum on rayn when Steveling has still "yet to open his mouth"?
Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly?
Rayn watcha think?
I used this to bait Rayn, but the fact that this exists means I thought out what his early lack of commitment might mean.
You and Rayn are firing off in every direction, trusting in your scum hunting skills to avail you I suppose, I on the other hand am pretty much zerod in on you because you are 50 percent scum XD so yeah, I can see why you might say that.
Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment.
Rayn pressed me into fighting him when I had nothing concrete to call him scum, I tried baiting him and my results were inconclusive so I back off until he pressed me into fighting with him and revealed his true self, also I clearly say repeatedly hes 50 50, therefore worthy of suspicion, but not 100 percent how does any of that reflect the mindset of someone completely set on scum Rayn from the start? .
So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
Here i present you our first...... Confirmed scumscumscumscumscum!!!! ezpz
~rayn
Like, read the fucking thread before you post Balla.
I think another key thing is Rayn doesnt once include sheer probability as a factor in his suspicion of me (like I do constantly, similar to a drowning man clinging to a raft) he presents his scum reads as if their derived from sheer skill and analysis, because probability doesnt factor into Rayn's convictions, he knows who town is and his reads will just continue to build up solely because he wills them to.
On April 02 2014 12:36 gumshoe wrote: Like, read the fucking thread before you post Balla.
I think another key thing is Rayn doesnt once include sheer probability as a factor in his suspicion of me (like I do constantly, similar to a drowning man clinging to a raft) he presents his scum reads as if their derived from sheer skill and analysis, because probability doesnt factor into Rayn's convictions, he knows who town is and his reads will just continue to build up solely because he wills them to.
What are you on about? None of that has anything to do with the contradiction you are displaying. You are calling rayn scum for being confident about his scum read on you even though Steveling has yet to contribute. Yet you are going HAM on rayn, even though steveling has still yet to contribute.
It has nothing to do with you attempting to bait rayn. What I want to know is, how can you call rayn scummy for that and say it's the "most damning bit of all" even though you are doing the exact same thing.
I backed off of Rayn after the fake case cause his response was fine, but Rayn came back for me and I explained why I lied. He then started hammering me as if he knew I was scum, whereas I was never certain of his alignment, only reasonably suspicious. He has always been far more suspect of me than I of him, I was just trying to read the guy whose in my group. Instead of talking shit Balla, show me proof that I was certain of Rayn's guilt before he was certain of mine and that I was more vocal about it.
The order of operations doesn't matter. Steveling has still done nothing, yet you are certain Rayn is mafia, and you call rayn scummy for being certain of you being mafia even though Steveling has done nothing.
On April 02 2014 12:13 gumshoe wrote: Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end.
On April 03 2014 12:19 Tehpoofter wrote: So I'm really glad that I just read through 20 pages of gum/rayn fighting. Going into it I had a town read on rayn scum on gum and null on steve.
On April 02 2014 19:04 Steveling wrote: Can't argue with that.
Anyway, what about you rayn, you made a bold statement accusing gum, you still think the same? And what do you think about me?
I tentatively think rayn is town. He's a bit too angry for my liking but his point on gumshoe looked really town to me.
I thought you might be scum then I realized you're in group with gumshoe who I also think is scum, so now I'm just confused.
Steve his filterdive of gumshoe touches a lot of points I didn't like about gumshoe. Like the strange defense of gum to geript. If we take into account Steve didn't yet filter my hydra makes me feel good about him.
I don't really know what to make out of the fact Steve is not taking an harder stance on gumshoe scum but I think he is just waiting a return from gumshoe to make a "final" verdict.
Anyway. My group is going to get figured out Quite certain of it.
Does it not bother you at all that Steve's approach seems to be "Keep all my options open"?
Palmar aks ryankoshi about my opinion on both ryankoshi and gumshoe. Yes, as a matter of fact they do mind, not as town but as scum. They do care that I have not yet sided completely with them. They do mind that there is a slight chance of me turning against them and siding with gum and they want none of this. Everyone and their mama had me cleared as town, like most of the active players. Those who didn't read me as town read me as neutral and ryankoshi were crapping their pants because I wasn't that aggressive against gum.
So, they had to go back to gum's and mine filters to try and find the tinniest, silliest, most illogical thread of garbage excuse to try and do a 180 on gum and turn on me. And they did exactly that, the oath excuse. (facepalm)
This is what they answered, when I asked what if I did the same then, what if I also swore on town?
On April 03 2014 05:09 raynpelikonoshi wrote: Yeah Steveling is mafia. I can use every reason to call people town if i am mafia. I can use every reason to call people town if i am town. There is nothing wrong with that. I can vote for who the fuck i want as either alignment. ~rayn
Who needs logic right?
Anyway, I also find it weird he's so up against getript. Getript didn't really make much sense in the first few hours but ryankoshi treats him like hitler with no solid points against him. On the other hand they had some solid points against gumshoe but we know what it takes to flip their mind, )). Getript has him in his scum list, ryankoshi feel compelled to strike back because they are scum, simple as that.
As for the mayor part, I wouldn't vote for getript because of his early game, even though the fact he's against ryankoshi makes me like him. I'd say holyflare would be my n1 choice for mayor atm. Palmar is just too inactive.
Oh and gumshoe, don't make the same mistake I did with you, don't respond to their guile 180 turn away from you. Instead, trust logic
This is a few choice qoutes from Rayn's play in witchcraft 2, where he orchestrated a mislynch on me day 1.
Looking the playerlist you are the guy i can work with the best. I can't read OO for shit. I hope Cephiro does not do dumb stuff like he did in Hogwarts. Lurk Sylencia = lynch, otherwise idk Sn0dude played really well in Hogwarts, i except that from him here aswell. gumshoe .... thrawn i misread on Desert until he actually started making sense, hope he does that too here Umasi was good in some game as town i think? Says nothing = lynch Onegu is tricky, damn he was tricky in Hogwarts. A guy to read closely. ET is town or scum at last N1, based purely on Hogwarts. hzflank i can read. Vanesco noob, no idea. contribute or die.
and yeah, that's it.
After second reading gumshoe's big post was really bad and could have been all said in 10 words. Apparently that was a fake post too..
I am also trying to be not pissed off with gumshoe but it's really hard..
Probably someone from gumshoe/Umasi/Onegu depending on what happens tomorrow. thrawn stared making sense.
##Vote: gumshoe just because i do not like anything he has said this game.
bh no, i do not remember his play from Basterd. I remember he claimed on N1 but i don't even remember why. After that he has been modkilled for inactivity or soht because i accidently outed him as blue (in a game i somehow thought everyone was blue) while he did pretty much nothing. 50% of my case on him is that i want him to actually say something uselful and 50% is that what he has said is either faked for no reason or useless contributions or something that makes no sense to me.
Pretty harsh on me in general, take a good look at that last qoute, notice how Rayn believes my meta works against me there? Next Compare all those lines to these ones that make up Rayn's current stance on me.
I read bla bla bla can't tell if true or false because impossilble to know if he went to sleep or not.
I dunno, why should i think something? getmoript is mafia agreed or not?
~rayn
I am trying so hard to think about this post and what the fuck is the point of all this. gumshoe what's the point of all this? On April 02 2014 06:22 gumshoe wrote: I'm just curios if you had thoughts on steve, or any history with him I should know of / :
I don't believe this. I don't believe this for one second.
So i went to see if Holyflare is hard to read for gumshoe. Turns out he had a pretty clear read on him in World Heavyweight mafia game
That last quote here also has my meta working against me and in general theres an overall tone of disdain once again in Rayn's voice, just like in Witchcraft, another funny thing is that I actually lied in witchcraft as well to try and bait scum, just like I did this game. Rayn knows exactly what I'm capable of and how to exploit that and of course he hammers me for it in this game just like hes done before.
Witch
gumshoe's contributions in Basterd have a clear point, are transparent and every time they reach to a hard conclusion. None of those things happen in this game and half of his filter anyways is useless because it's about fake case that either serves no purpose if he is town or he just fucked up and is making stuff up if he is scum.
Cell
So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
Next up, look at this recent game where were both town for comparison.
gumshoe i am interested. Do you think Palmar is mafia?
see gumshoe here is my problem. I am a player who asks questions, obviously. When i ask questions, assuming i am not questioning something i do not understand, there are expected answers: 1) scummy type of answer, or townie type of answer, or both 2) answer i did not expect which leads to further investigation
Now i don't always expect people to understand why i do ask questions i do in the first place. That would defeat the purpose of my play in total. If you can tell what my question is going to achieve you know (as mafia) how you should be answering it. Right?
So, my question to you is: I don't understand why do you assume Palmar should assume what i am thinking and why i ask what i do. How do you suggest town!Palmar should read me if he is not "allowed" to figure out my motives behind my posts? Or do you think it's reasonable to assume Palmar should have realized what i was after? Did you know what i expected town!gumshoe to answer when i asked you my question?
I think the confusing part here is that gumshoe assumes/says Palmar thought i was scummy for my question and therefore questioned me. Not that Palmar was trying to get a read on me.
gumshoe how do you ended up to this conclusion in the first place?
Anyways that smiley makes me see red every time i see it, except for when gumshoe does it. Just because gumshoe is so adorable.
I have been really really sure since i started telling him why i thought his case on Palmar was dumb and started explaining him what Palmar meant with his posts.
Take note of the last quote, he thinks I'm town here because of dumb stubborn play, whats different this game Rayn? Also the tone, while still inquisitive, is much lighter than that of the excerpts from the first two sets listed.
Scum like sure things, Rayn has had success beating me straight up before, he feels confident he can do it again. A good example of this kind of behaviour in scum is how Suki went after cav in cultured the same way she did in the first newbie game they played together. The prefer to tackle targets who they can beat, thats why from the get go Rayn has been spinning everything I say as scummy, watch how he twists what I say and do over and over again.
HE WANTS TO FUCKING LYNCH TOWNIES!! SERIOUSLY GUMSHOE????
Here he attacks me for defending "confirmed scum" geript, of course Geript is not 100 percent scum and Rayn admits as much himself later on here,
So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"?
What I mean here is that I suspect hes scum, therefore why do I need to tell him anything that would worsen my odds of catching him. Of course he zeros in on the "you dont owe me anything" part because thats what his agenda calls for, he will tear apart all my statements and alter to them just to make me look bad.
Heres another example of Rayns twister skills.
gumshoe which players from the playerlist would you consider unreadable?
After I answer him honestly, Rayn comes back with this.
So i went to see if Holyflare is hard to read for gumshoe. Turns out he had a pretty clear read on him in World Heavyweight mafia game (where he was town) half past D1. I also found this:
Cause I'm not there yet : P and I disagree, bieng readable is a big part of bieng town, if you make your self unreadable you can't be trusted. I'm not going to argue with you about this because it's retarded to think otherwise.
To adress the bolded first, he completley disregards cultured mafia, the game where Holy bussed his team and completley blind sided me/town, I had this much to say to Holy afterwards
cant bilieve you massacred your team like that, dont listen to what anyone says (not that you would) that takes 3 testicles and no heart, wp sir. At the end of day I was willing to lynch every other person in the game (myself included probally) before you, and that sentiment carried through all the way to lylo. Hope we can play more games like this in the future ( :
Of course, Rayn pretends this game never happens because it doesn't fit his narrative, and thats what hes doing guys, hes crafting a narrative, telling us all a bedtime story so he can slit our throats and steal our shit while we sleep.
As for his point about me contradicting myself, first of all let me ask you, does inconsistency a scum make? No, motive and/or a lack of effort do and my actions suggest neither (I have contributed since games start and made suggestions that scum would pale at the mere thought of uttering). That said, hes twisting the truth here yet again.
"Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play.
I care what town thinks of me and I'm trying to prove my alignment through contribution, I do not however give a shit what my top scum read thinks and I will lie all day to him until he flips red or reasonably proves himself to be green. He twists this into me not caring about what town thinks as a whole, when in reality anyone who actually reads what I'm saying for themselves can pretty much tell that my words are directed at Rayn and Rayn alone.
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end.
gumshoe: "The most daming thing is that rayn thinks I am scum while Steveling has yet to open his mouth, rayn and I should be 50/50 to each other, him pushing me as scum is scummy. But my conclusion is that rayn is 90% scum."
-ok then gumshoe-
I have considered that steve is scum at every point in this game, just because I made a play to try to read you early on doesn't mean I was 100 percent sure your scum out of the gates. In fact I backed off after your answer because it was fine. You came back after me because you were so sure my lie made me scum, even though you know I bait as town. I was just figuring out your alignment, like you should be doing instead of blindly considering me scum before Steve talks. Go ahead and call me a hypocrite but I have expressed fear that he might be scum throughout every point of this game, even at the time of my big post I said you were 90 percent, not 100.
Also I love how your team keeps poking away at this one bit because you can't deny your playing exactly the same as witchcraft. How is this game different Rayn? How are you scum reading me here for the same play you'd town read me in any other game? How does a mderg, gumshoe scum team fit? Do you honestly think mderg is scum when half the active players called him red? Even though we know he's capable of shit play and getting jumped for it?
Also have you rescinded you ez pz scum read on me? Because right now I'm fairly certain your scum, but no I'm not completely sure and have never been, because I'm town. Show me evidence instead of generically calling me a hypocrite, you will not find anything as damning as "ezpz confirmed scum" your point is mute rayn / : what bullshit do you offer next?
Also gonna say this, Mderg is 100 percent town, I don't like the other people in his group, his play is in line with what I imagine of him as town and theres been too much gleeful drive on him. Even if I'm scum, he's town, consider his alignment a gift regardless of mine.
fairly certain I am scum. Why? Explain pls.
In witch, everything your scum reads said reaffirmed your biases, it's the same here.
In that game, you found my fake post was scummy just like here
In that game, you thought my meta worked against me just like here,
In that game, everything I said convinced you that I was more scum.
That, and your so certain even before steve talks.
I have been in this situation before Rayn / : the similarity is uncanny.
On April 03 2014 22:59 Holyflare wrote: That's why i asked if you actually know what the fuck the game rules are. Let me state again. Why does rayn give a crap what you think of him when the majority of people in the game are leaning town on him?
What majority. Can you back what you just said with quotes?
On April 03 2014 22:58 Steveling wrote: And he didn't even bother to explain, not that he can explain with the retarded things he did but he didn't even try.
This is exactly his 2nd point on his gum case, not only he flipped on gum, he flipped on his town play basics. I don't even.
Say once more i didn't explain without reading my filter and i call you a liar.
~rayn
No rayn, you didn't explain absolutely anything.
What you did is explain the illogical paths your scummy brain worked out so you could 180 on gumshoe. That's not an explanation, that's the diary of a madman. Don't you agree?
On April 03 2014 22:59 Holyflare wrote: That's why i asked if you actually know what the fuck the game rules are. Let me state again. Why does rayn give a crap what you think of him when the majority of people in the game are leaning town on him?
What majority. Can you back what you just said with quotes?
Are you serious? The only people scum reading rayn are gumshoe and geript at that point in time?
I was so green that when gum proposed me as mayor couple people were like "whatever, ok". That's why he was afraid. And if you go back to ryan's filter you will notice that he did that mental gymnastics with gumshoe exactly when I was in the mayor talk, which I didn't even want to, as I said I have no experience as mayor.
Pay attention pls, if they are scum, they know that I am town. And I was not 100% with them against gum which means they could very well lose the cell, right? It also explains his fixation on getript.
Don't forget that while they made some good points about gumshoe, he doesn't have a valid point against getript(besides getript's very early weird posts which are not enough for the heat he's receiving by rayn imo).
And I'm getting down to my previous point, the majority didn't thought of him as town.
We are 15 players. Gum, getript and per my hypothesis, me, were against him, minus him, that's 11 players left. From these 11 coal and ceph were lurking. That's 9 left, from these 9 mderg, sentinel, slam, lsb, poofter and balla did not, I repeat in bold and if I'm wrong pls uses quotes from their filters, did not have yet an opinion on ryankoshi. With the power of logic we can deduce that 9-6=3. Me+gum+getript=3 as well.
I feel so bad in this game, I'm getting punished because I got mad at a fundamentally wrong mafia play that I think is cheating. Ryan still refuses to show any semblance of coherence whatsoever, I'm busting my head reading filters all day trying to come to logical conclusions and I'm getting fos'd.
Anyway, do we agree holyflare now that the majority didn't find him town at that point? Do we agree that I was greener than a Peter Jackson prairie film shot?
Do these 2 points make my argument about ryankoshi's 180 feasible at all?
On April 03 2014 23:36 Balla24 wrote: How do you not get from my filter that raynkoshi is town? Even if I may or may not explicitly state it should be pretty obvious.
You said yourself that you did not explicitly state it, when I'm skimming through 6 people's filter your overall tone/impression gets lost. Even if you were with him, the balance is very flimsy and as I explained I had the power to draw people to my cases. My point that he was afraid still stands.
Not like 8 guys had town reads on him. And I'm talking about the moment he did the scummy play not after that.
That's 9 left, from these 9 mderg, sentinel, slam, lsb, poofter and balla did not, I repeat in bold and if I'm wrong pls uses quotes from their filters, did not have yet an opinion on ryankoshi.
This part is quite funny. Let's see: Sentinel - okay maybe makes sense, but if Sentinel was not at least leaning town on me he is lying Slam - thinks i am town LSB - If was not leaning town on me lying (but tbf steve can't know why) poofer - had me as town Balla - thought i was town
So, in fact all of those people were at least leaning town on me. If any of those people wants to disagree with this we got an argument.
That's 9 left, from these 9 mderg, sentinel, slam, lsb, poofter and balla did not, I repeat in bold and if I'm wrong pls uses quotes from their filters, did not have yet an opinion on ryankoshi.
LSB - If was not leaning town on me lying (but tbf steve can't know why)
Do agree that I was greener that you at every point in the game until you did that thing? Couple this with the fact that I wasn't siding with you completely against gumshoe, makes my case against you at least possible?
On April 03 2014 23:34 Steveling wrote: As I explained, I was the most green player.
I was so green that when gum proposed me as mayor couple people were like "whatever, ok". That's why he was afraid. And if you go back to ryan's filter you will notice that he did that mental gymnastics with gumshoe exactly when I was in the mayor talk, which I didn't even want to, as I said I have no experience as mayor.
Pay attention pls, if they are scum, they know that I am town. And I was not 100% with them against gum which means they could very well lose the cell, right? It also explains his fixation on getript.
Don't forget that while they made some good points about gumshoe, he doesn't have a valid point against getript(besides getript's very early weird posts which are not enough for the heat he's receiving by rayn imo).
And I'm getting down to my previous point, the majority didn't thought of him as town.
We are 15 players. Gum, getript and per my hypothesis, me, were against him, minus him, that's 11 players left. From these 11 coal and ceph were lurking. That's 9 left, from these 9 mderg, sentinel, slam, lsb, poofter and balla did not, I repeat in bold and if I'm wrong pls uses quotes from their filters, did not have yet an opinion on ryankoshi. With the power of logic we can deduce that 9-6=3. Me+gum+getript=3 as well.
I feel so bad in this game, I'm getting punished because I got mad at a fundamentally wrong mafia play that I think is cheating. Ryan still refuses to show any semblance of coherence whatsoever, I'm busting my head reading filters all day trying to come to logical conclusions and I'm getting fos'd.
Anyway, do we agree holyflare now that the majority didn't find him town at that point? Do we agree that I was greener than a Peter Jackson prairie film shot?
Do these 2 points make my argument about ryankoshi's 180 feasible at all?
How is the bolded true at all? You also can't include yourself in the anti rayn train or mderg BECAUSE YOU TWO ONLY SWITCHED TO RAYN AFTER HIS SWITCH.
That would be a good question if you hadn't read my posts. I said that it was a hypothesis of mine, ryan was afraid of me turning against him so he had to fos me. I even explained that in my calculation
We are 15 players. Gum, getript and per my hypothesis, me, were against him, minus him, that's 11 players left.
Honestly I don't like how you keep talking for him. You guys made a big deal about mderg standing up for me but here you are swallowing his spit.
On April 03 2014 23:55 Palmar wrote: Why are you entirely dismissing the option of gumshoe being mafia Steveling? Do you think it's reasonable of gumshoe to drop all his suspicions of rayn who was previously his strongest scumread, the second rayn stops trying to lynch him?
I said this when ryankoshi made their case against gumshoe. Many of his seemingly antitown plays can be attributed to his usual playing style.
Since I played with him a game before I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Then again ryan made some a couple good points against him but still I can't ignore the complete randomness of ryankoshi, their 180 on gum had to be scumplay, can't explain it otherwise.
On April 03 2014 23:34 Steveling wrote: As I explained, I was the most green player.
I was so green that when gum proposed me as mayor couple people were like "whatever, ok". That's why he was afraid. And if you go back to ryan's filter you will notice that he did that mental gymnastics with gumshoe exactly when I was in the mayor talk, which I didn't even want to, as I said I have no experience as mayor.
Pay attention pls, if they are scum, they know that I am town. And I was not 100% with them against gum which means they could very well lose the cell, right? It also explains his fixation on getript.
Don't forget that while they made some good points about gumshoe, he doesn't have a valid point against getript(besides getript's very early weird posts which are not enough for the heat he's receiving by rayn imo).
And I'm getting down to my previous point, the majority didn't thought of him as town.
We are 15 players. Gum, getript and per my hypothesis, me, were against him, minus him, that's 11 players left. From these 11 coal and ceph were lurking. That's 9 left, from these 9 mderg, sentinel, slam, lsb, poofter and balla did not, I repeat in bold and if I'm wrong pls uses quotes from their filters, did not have yet an opinion on ryankoshi. With the power of logic we can deduce that 9-6=3. Me+gum+getript=3 as well.
I feel so bad in this game, I'm getting punished because I got mad at a fundamentally wrong mafia play that I think is cheating. Ryan still refuses to show any semblance of coherence whatsoever, I'm busting my head reading filters all day trying to come to logical conclusions and I'm getting fos'd.
Anyway, do we agree holyflare now that the majority didn't find him town at that point? Do we agree that I was greener than a Peter Jackson prairie film shot?
Do these 2 points make my argument about ryankoshi's 180 feasible at all?
How is the bolded true at all? You also can't include yourself in the anti rayn train or mderg BECAUSE YOU TWO ONLY SWITCHED TO RAYN AFTER HIS SWITCH.
That would be a good question if you hadn't read my posts. I said that it was a hypothesis of mine, ryan was afraid of me turning against him so he had to fos me. I even explained that in my calculation
We are 15 players. Gum, getript and per my hypothesis, me, were against him, minus him, that's 11 players left.
Honestly I don't like how you keep talking for him. You guys made a big deal about mderg standing up for me but here you are swallowing his spit.
I have no idea how you can be so far removed from thread sentiment to believe the nonsense you are spouting. Even if you are mafia.
On April 03 2014 23:55 Palmar wrote: Why are you entirely dismissing the option of gumshoe being mafia Steveling? Do you think it's reasonable of gumshoe to drop all his suspicions of rayn who was previously his strongest scumread, the second rayn stops trying to lynch him?
I said this when ryankoshi made their case against gumshoe. Many of his seemingly antitown plays can be attributed to his usual playing style.
Since I played with him a game before I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Then again ryan made some a couple good points against him but still I can't ignore the complete randomness of ryankoshi, their 180 on gum had to be scumplay, can't explain it otherwise.
That's what you're not getting, it doesn't have to be scumplay. In fact it cannot be explained as scumplay. You're vastly underestimating the pull people like me, rayn and HF have in a thread. Like Slam saying something is not the same thing as rayn saying something, you can't just count players who said "this guy is town" and assume that's thread sentiment.
If me and rayn agree on a lynch, that guy is generally going to be lynched, no matter what geript or someone else has to say about it.
Actually, reading that, you make sense. Unfortunately because this allows for cheating(imo) stuff like the oath thing.
I'm pretty sure if mine and gum's positions were reversed and I were to say the exact same phrase as gum ryan wouldn't even think about it for a second. That's why I said it's bad play.
So what are you saying to me. Are you saying I should dismiss that oath ploy and count him town? Imagine yourself in my position, what should I do as town? Honest question.
Yes but that's coming from your perspective, as someone who knows rayn and before I went mad with the oath thing yesterday. I can't flip now on ryan and expect you guys to believe I'm town. And I would be fine with that if this was a normal setup since you would have my reads and the people who jumped on me as potential scum but we will lose my cell if you lynch me so I have to try my best and not give up. If this was a normal setup my last post in this game would be from yesterday. So I'm trying to figure out why ryan did what he did only to find out that you veteran guys have preconceived notions about ryan. I feel lost and confused. Also sad. Hug pls.
Don't know. Ryankoshi, can you say what do you honestly think of me leaving aside the oath thing? I think I explained in 3-4 posts why I got mad, well I still am.
On April 04 2014 01:26 Holyflare wrote: It's not recycling. You made an entire case that was based on rayn being scum and not being town read by a majority of people in the thread. So why would you still be angry that someone you think is now scum and had nobody town reading him switched his opinion of someone?
Well first of all, for a top ranked mafia player as you described your ability, you managed to contradict yourself in these 2 lines.
You made an entire case that was based on rayn being scum and not being town read by a majority of people in the thread.
why would you still be angry that someone you think is now scum and had nobody town reading him
I don't know what to say, you constantly seem to either not understand my simple posts or not want to.
As for your actual question, you are asking me something that will reflect bad on the hosts depending on my answer and I think I blamed them enough. I think I already answered multiple times why I would be mad over this. Read my filter from yesterday if you are still not sure about my reasoning.
On April 04 2014 01:26 Holyflare wrote: It's not recycling. You made an entire case that was based on rayn being scum and not being town read by a majority of people in the thread. So why would you still be angry that someone you think is now scum and had nobody town reading him switched his opinion of someone?
Well first of all, for a top ranked mafia player as you described your ability, you managed to contradict yourself in these 2 lines.
You made an entire case that was based on rayn being scum and not being town read by a majority of people in the thread.
why would you still be angry that someone you think is now scum and had nobody town reading him
I don't know what to say, you constantly seem to either not understand my simple posts or not want to.
As for your actual question, you are asking me something that will reflect bad on the hosts depending on my answer and I think I blamed them enough. I think I already answered multiple times why I would be mad over this. Read my filter from yesterday if you are still not sure about my reasoning.
I fail to see how i contradict myself. I'm merely pointing out YOUR contradiction.
You think nobody is town reading rayn. YOU think he is scum. So why would YOU be mad when he switches his mind? Unless you are actually conceding that your whole case was wrong?
When did I say that no one had him town read, omg, I feel like everyone is trolling me for some reason, lmao. I merely said that not everyone had him town read, so he had reasons to be scared of me. That's what I said.
On April 04 2014 01:49 gumshoe wrote: Also Palmer is what I did cheating if I'm scum?
Imo, and as I said earlier the exact words are borderline cheating, it is regardless of your/mine/rayn's alignment. Hosts said it's ok, so I contemplated on rq'ing but I decided to keep trying. After all I have never won as town. Q_Q
On April 04 2014 01:26 Holyflare wrote: It's not recycling. You made an entire case that was based on rayn being scum and not being town read by a majority of people in the thread. So why would you still be angry that someone you think is now scum and had nobody town reading him switched his opinion of someone?
Well first of all, for a top ranked mafia player as you described your ability, you managed to contradict yourself in these 2 lines.
You made an entire case that was based on rayn being scum and not being town read by a majority of people in the thread.
why would you still be angry that someone you think is now scum and had nobody town reading him
I don't know what to say, you constantly seem to either not understand my simple posts or not want to.
As for your actual question, you are asking me something that will reflect bad on the hosts depending on my answer and I think I blamed them enough. I think I already answered multiple times why I would be mad over this. Read my filter from yesterday if you are still not sure about my reasoning.
I fail to see how i contradict myself. I'm merely pointing out YOUR contradiction.
You think nobody is town reading rayn. YOU think he is scum. So why would YOU be mad when he switches his mind? Unless you are actually conceding that your whole case was wrong?
When did I say that no one had him town read, omg, I feel like everyone is trolling me for some reason, lmao. I merely said that not everyone had him town read, so he had reasons to be scared of me. That's what I said.
We are 15 players. Gum, getript and per my hypothesis, me, were against him, minus him, that's 11 players left. From these 11 coal and ceph were lurking. That's 9 left, from these 9 mderg, sentinel, slam, lsb, poofter and balla did not, I repeat in bold and if I'm wrong pls uses quotes from their filters, did not have yet an opinion on ryankoshi. With the power of logic we can deduce that 9-6=3. Me+gum+getript=3 as well.
By your logic only 3 people town read rayn and 3 scum read. After rayns switch mderg also called him scum. So that's 4-3.
So why would you be mad that the guy town read by a minority switches and calls you scummy?
Because of the play he did, why am I not getting through? Alignment has nothing to do with my burst, nor the time. It's all about the oath situation.
Listen gum and holyflare. What's done is done, the poor hosts probably want to commit suicide reading this game and it's partially my fault. If it makes you feel better thinking than I'm scum and my oath-anger-burst thing was a smoke screen pls do so.
On April 04 2014 02:02 Steveling wrote: Listen gum and holyflare. What's done is done, the poor hosts probably want to commit suicide reading this game and it's partially my fault. If it makes you feel better thinking than I'm scum and my oath-anger-burst thing was a smoke screen pls do so.
But stop discussing it further pls.
Um no because your group is most likely first.
Yes and I agree but stop discussing about it being was legit, if it was cheating or not, I said all I had to say regarding that.
Well, that doesn't matter prplz because I think I will after all. Why is gum sheeping so hard that retarded case? Why is he making stuff up? Why doesn't he even for a moment question my anger when even ryan asked me why I was getting mad about it.
I don't know if I should trust holyflare and palmar on their townread on ryan but gum has it a bit too convenient.
Also, why did gum jumped ship so fast, so effortlessly when couple pages back he was practically begging me to take his side?
We played one more game together gum, I was scum and I was under pressure. Did I scum slip that hugely in that game? Because my mistake, if I'm scum, is just pants on head bad not just bad. Do you think I'd make that kind of mistake?
Answer honestly pls, I am still not sure about you/raynkoshi.
All I'm saying prplz, is that I wouldn't do this play if I were scum. I'd say "yeah nice try ryankoshi, are you retarded mate?" and it would end there.
On April 04 2014 02:23 Steveling wrote: Also, why did gum jumped ship so fast, so effortlessly when couple pages back he was practically begging me to take his side?
We played one more game together gum, I was scum and I was under pressure. Did I scum slip that hugely in that game? Because my mistake, if I'm scum, is just pants on head bad not just bad. Do you think I'd make that kind of mistake?
Answer honestly pls, I am still not sure about you/raynkoshi.
1: I jumped ship because my case on Rayn was invalidated, your reaction was shit, and rayn had no reason to do what he did as scum.
2: That is what I am saying yes, you were pissed that such a little thing in your eyes could mean the difference between victory and defeat after you had sold the on the fence townie perfectly. I truly believe that.
Mods I tried my best but they don't let me, sorry.
So, gumshoe, you don't think what you did is cheating at all?
On April 04 2014 02:23 Steveling wrote: Also, why did gum jumped ship so fast, so effortlessly when couple pages back he was practically begging me to take his side?
We played one more game together gum, I was scum and I was under pressure. Did I scum slip that hugely in that game? Because my mistake, if I'm scum, is just pants on head bad not just bad. Do you think I'd make that kind of mistake?
Answer honestly pls, I am still not sure about you/raynkoshi.
1: I jumped ship because my case on Rayn was invalidated, your reaction was shit, and rayn had no reason to do what he did as scum.
2: That is what I am saying yes, you were pissed that such a little thing in your eyes could mean the difference between victory and defeat after you had sold the on the fence townie perfectly. I truly believe that.
Mods I tried my best but they don't let me, sorry.
So, gumshoe, you don't think what you did is cheating at all?
Personally? I do, I was frustrated, I'd put a lot of effort into this game and yet I cant count the amount of people who have called my arguments outright shit and ignored what I've had to say. I just got really pissed that you werent hearing me out and was utterly desperate, was it against the spirit of the game? Yes, it was. But it felt justified when I did it ) : This setup is really frustrating because it feels like theres scum right in front of you and all you have to do is play your heart our and prove it T_T and I was really upset to find out that I just couldnt do that. To find out I'm really not that good at mafia.
Still, none of that changes the fact that In a game where townie seals are outright banned, I do personally feel its cheating. That only aplies though if I'm town, which I am. If I'm scum its a lie like any other, and you cant fault scum for bieng scum. Thats why I am suspicious of how you immediately assumed I'm cheating / : to me that looks you know I'm town, despite all your sentiments to the contrary.
Ahh, you make sense finally. But I'd be angry whether I was town or scum. Believe me or not, that's up to you. I'm not gonna swear, that's for sure.
On April 04 2014 02:23 Steveling wrote: Also, why did gum jumped ship so fast, so effortlessly when couple pages back he was practically begging me to take his side?
We played one more game together gum, I was scum and I was under pressure. Did I scum slip that hugely in that game? Because my mistake, if I'm scum, is just pants on head bad not just bad. Do you think I'd make that kind of mistake?
Answer honestly pls, I am still not sure about you/raynkoshi.
1: I jumped ship because my case on Rayn was invalidated, your reaction was shit, and rayn had no reason to do what he did as scum.
2: That is what I am saying yes, you were pissed that such a little thing in your eyes could mean the difference between victory and defeat after you had sold the on the fence townie perfectly. I truly believe that.
Mods I tried my best but they don't let me, sorry.
So, gumshoe, you don't think what you did is cheating at all?
Personally? I do, I was frustrated, I'd put a lot of effort into this game and yet I cant count the amount of people who have called my arguments outright shit and ignored what I've had to say. I just got really pissed that you werent hearing me out and was utterly desperate, was it against the spirit of the game? Yes, it was. But it felt justified when I did it ) : This setup is really frustrating because it feels like theres scum right in front of you and all you have to do is play your heart our and prove it T_T and I was really upset to find out that I just couldnt do that. To find out I'm really not that good at mafia.
Still, none of that changes the fact that In a game where townie seals are outright banned, I do personally feel its cheating. That only aplies though if I'm town, which I am. If I'm scum its a lie like any other, and you cant fault scum for bieng scum. Thats why I am suspicious of how you immediately assumed I'm cheating / : to me that looks you know I'm town, despite all your sentiments to the contrary.
Ahh, you make sense finally. But I'd be angry whether I was town or scum. Believe me or not, that's up to you. I'm not gonna swear, that's for sure.
You are presenting your reaction to me as null, even if thats true, Rayn's reaction could not have come from scum unless he was playing completely sub optimal. Presenting yourself as null is not good enough. I know one of you is scum, do you understand why I have trouble believing you over him? If were both somehow town, you gotta convince me how what Rayn did makes sense from a scum perspective. Cause I honestly cant see it T_T
Rayn's play would be suboptimal but mine wouldn't? xD If you read the incident's pages you will see that people are literally telling me to calm down and that I'm attracting attention. If I did just that I'd in the clear. Yet you are telling me that as scum, I completely went off on a retarded case that would simply die down if I ignored it? All the while I had previously beat you in another game as scum under fire, thus you know how good I am in this game. Not claiming to be mafia god, far from it, but I think you would hold me on higher regard than an amoeba.
Have you read my case on ryan? What do you think? It's the long post I opened this day with.
Well, no one called me out on anything serious. Yes? You and getript had actively hunted ryan? Yes? So I was greener? I'll take that as a yes too.
You are again lying after that, getript had called ryan scum many times and I don't recall, have to check filters, I think even before yours and ryans fight.
As for your last questions, I didn't assume anything regarding their status.
On April 04 2014 02:23 Steveling wrote: Also, why did gum jumped ship so fast, so effortlessly when couple pages back he was practically begging me to take his side?
We played one more game together gum, I was scum and I was under pressure. Did I scum slip that hugely in that game? Because my mistake, if I'm scum, is just pants on head bad not just bad. Do you think I'd make that kind of mistake?
Answer honestly pls, I am still not sure about you/raynkoshi.
1: I jumped ship because my case on Rayn was invalidated, your reaction was shit, and rayn had no reason to do what he did as scum.
2: That is what I am saying yes, you were pissed that such a little thing in your eyes could mean the difference between victory and defeat after you had sold the on the fence townie perfectly. I truly believe that.
Mods I tried my best but they don't let me, sorry.
So, gumshoe, you don't think what you did is cheating at all?
Personally? I do, I was frustrated, I'd put a lot of effort into this game and yet I cant count the amount of people who have called my arguments outright shit and ignored what I've had to say. I just got really pissed that you werent hearing me out and was utterly desperate, was it against the spirit of the game? Yes, it was. But it felt justified when I did it ) : This setup is really frustrating because it feels like theres scum right in front of you and all you have to do is play your heart our and prove it T_T and I was really upset to find out that I just couldnt do that. To find out I'm really not that good at mafia.
Still, none of that changes the fact that In a game where townie seals are outright banned, I do personally feel its cheating. That only aplies though if I'm town, which I am. If I'm scum its a lie like any other, and you cant fault scum for bieng scum. Thats why I am suspicious of how you immediately assumed I'm cheating / : to me that looks you know I'm town, despite all your sentiments to the contrary.
Ahh, you make sense finally. But I'd be angry whether I was town or scum. Believe me or not, that's up to you. I'm not gonna swear, that's for sure.
You are presenting your reaction to me as null, even if thats true, Rayn's reaction could not have come from scum unless he was playing completely sub optimal. Presenting yourself as null is not good enough. I know one of you is scum, do you understand why I have trouble believing you over him? If were both somehow town, you gotta convince me how what Rayn did makes sense from a scum perspective. Cause I honestly cant see it T_T
Rayn's play would be suboptimal but mine wouldn't? xD If you read the incident's pages you will see that people are literally telling me to calm down and that I'm attracting attention. If I did just that I'd in the clear. Yet you are telling me that as scum, I completely went off on a retarded case that would simply die down if I ignored it? All the while I had previously beat you in another game as scum under fire, thus you know how good I am in this game. Not claiming to be mafia god, far from it, but I think you would hold me on higher regard than an amoeba.
Have you read my case on ryan? What do you think? It's the long post I opened this day with.
You avoided to answer this or did you forget again?
On April 04 2014 02:23 Steveling wrote: Also, why did gum jumped ship so fast, so effortlessly when couple pages back he was practically begging me to take his side?
We played one more game together gum, I was scum and I was under pressure. Did I scum slip that hugely in that game? Because my mistake, if I'm scum, is just pants on head bad not just bad. Do you think I'd make that kind of mistake?
Answer honestly pls, I am still not sure about you/raynkoshi.
1: I jumped ship because my case on Rayn was invalidated, your reaction was shit, and rayn had no reason to do what he did as scum.
2: That is what I am saying yes, you were pissed that such a little thing in your eyes could mean the difference between victory and defeat after you had sold the on the fence townie perfectly. I truly believe that.
Mods I tried my best but they don't let me, sorry.
So, gumshoe, you don't think what you did is cheating at all?
Personally? I do, I was frustrated, I'd put a lot of effort into this game and yet I cant count the amount of people who have called my arguments outright shit and ignored what I've had to say. I just got really pissed that you werent hearing me out and was utterly desperate, was it against the spirit of the game? Yes, it was. But it felt justified when I did it ) : This setup is really frustrating because it feels like theres scum right in front of you and all you have to do is play your heart our and prove it T_T and I was really upset to find out that I just couldnt do that. To find out I'm really not that good at mafia.
Still, none of that changes the fact that In a game where townie seals are outright banned, I do personally feel its cheating. That only aplies though if I'm town, which I am. If I'm scum its a lie like any other, and you cant fault scum for bieng scum. Thats why I am suspicious of how you immediately assumed I'm cheating / : to me that looks you know I'm town, despite all your sentiments to the contrary.
Ahh, you make sense finally. But I'd be angry whether I was town or scum. Believe me or not, that's up to you. I'm not gonna swear, that's for sure.
You are presenting your reaction to me as null, even if thats true, Rayn's reaction could not have come from scum unless he was playing completely sub optimal. Presenting yourself as null is not good enough. I know one of you is scum, do you understand why I have trouble believing you over him? If were both somehow town, you gotta convince me how what Rayn did makes sense from a scum perspective. Cause I honestly cant see it T_T
Rayn's play would be suboptimal but mine wouldn't? xD If you read the incident's pages you will see that people are literally telling me to calm down and that I'm attracting attention. If I did just that I'd in the clear. Yet you are telling me that as scum, I completely went off on a retarded case that would simply die down if I ignored it? All the while I had previously beat you in another game as scum under fire, thus you know how good I am in this game. Not claiming to be mafia god, far from it, but I think you would hold me on higher regard than an amoeba.
Have you read my case on ryan? What do you think? It's the long post I opened this day with.
You avoided to answer this or did you forget again?
Also you are saying you wouldnt play this shitty as scum, why would you play that shitty as town either? That argument makes no sense / :
Ummm, do you read what you typed before you hit the post button? It's you who are claiming I'm scum and not me obviously, lmao.
Why do you have trouble with that. I'm getting fos'ed and you assume I'm scum or at least scummier than ryankoshi. Obviously I'm gonna set that setting in my example?
Plus I said like, 14 times that what I did was alignment free.
And btw my play would be more legit as town than as scum. Town in this setup can't afford MY's. You ML me, mafia gets a point and you lose a supposedly strong player in ryankoshi( don't know why he's considered a strong player, lol , at least based on this game). As scum, as I explained in the previous post, acting up for this stupid reason would be disastrous.
On April 04 2014 03:51 Steveling wrote: Why do you have trouble with that. I'm getting fos'ed and you assume I'm scum or at least scummier than ryankoshi. Obviously I'm gonna set that setting in my example?
Plus I said like, 14 times that what I did was alignment free.
Exactly! What you did was alignment free AT BEST(I dont think it was, but thats irrelevant) but I find what Rayn did completely good alignment indicative, I MUST pick one of you, therefore you are my scum choice. Seriusly, how does no one get this?
What's your reasoning for thinking rayn acted as towny? Holyflare and palmar basically told me that they know he's retarded but they trust him, I don't agree but there you have it. What your stance? Cause to me it seems you got a bit too happy a bit too fast when the attention shifted from you on me.
You said rayn had a 90% scumread and suddenly he's town? With a play that his fellow veterans admitted was dumb?
On April 04 2014 03:51 Steveling wrote: Why do you have trouble with that. I'm getting fos'ed and you assume I'm scum or at least scummier than ryankoshi. Obviously I'm gonna set that setting in my example?
Plus I said like, 14 times that what I did was alignment free.
Exactly! What you did was alignment free AT BEST(I dont think it was, but thats irrelevant) but I find what Rayn did completely good alignment indicative, I MUST pick one of you, therefore you are my scum choice. Seriusly, how does no one get this?
What's your reasoning for thinking rayn acted as towny? Holyflare and palmar basically told me that they know he's retarded but they trust him, I don't agree but there you have it. What your stance? Cause to me it seems you got a bit too happy a bit too fast when the attention shifted from you on me.
You said rayn had a 90% scumread and suddenly he's town? With a play that his fellow veterans admitted was dumb?
On April 04 2014 03:51 Steveling wrote: Why do you have trouble with that. I'm getting fos'ed and you assume I'm scum or at least scummier than ryankoshi. Obviously I'm gonna set that setting in my example?
Plus I said like, 14 times that what I did was alignment free.
Exactly! What you did was alignment free AT BEST(I dont think it was, but thats irrelevant) but I find what Rayn did completely good alignment indicative, I MUST pick one of you, therefore you are my scum choice. Seriusly, how does no one get this?
What's your reasoning for thinking rayn acted as towny? Holyflare and palmar basically told me that they know he's retarded but they trust him, I don't agree but there you have it. What your stance? Cause to me it seems you got a bit too happy a bit too fast when the attention shifted from you on me.
You said rayn had a 90% scumread and suddenly he's town? With a play that his fellow veterans admitted was dumb?
And you answer this pls.
Why are you deflecting my question by asking a question I've asnwered dozens of times? Are you even reading my posts? Why is it so unreasonable to ask you to scum hunt outside of your own cell?
I didn't deflect anything, I'm filtering prplz right now and I'll follow up with getmoript. You didn't answer on the other hand.
On April 04 2014 04:11 raynpelikonoshi wrote: Koshi says:
Steveling (only trying to win his group currently)
Make HF his group last.
Busted? We all agree we have to win our cells first and foremost and then look at other cells. In this setup a lynch removes an entire cell from the game, so town is hurt more than MY than scum by scum lynch?
I'm under suspicion so I'm obviously trying to make seem as town and get us a point? Scumslip?
Even though it was a lie, since I'm filtering cell 5 atm. I also like how you conveniently ask for HF who blindly trusts you to be the last cell, lol.
Although tbh I still can't decide between you and gum. I want to believe you are the scum but I can't ignore HF and Palmar both. Also gum has some really hiularious posts as well.
On April 04 2014 03:59 gumshoe wrote: Also you never answered my question, who do you think is scum in Prplz cell?
Who me?
Yes.
In the early game he says
and now that your main scum read suddenly lets you go as his main scum read, you go "nice, i'm afk now LOL"
i swear on my life that gum is scum
can we please get over this dumb shit, gum has been theatrical all game and i don't know why you would put this beyond him
Later on he responds to someone fos'ing him
you can't call me mafia because i'm town and all of getript's arguments are stupid.
Like, totally unrelated these 2 points he makes. Weak.
Later he says that he would lynch getript over cephiro which is questionable. Getript doesn't have the best posts but at least he has some, lol.
On another comment
mderg might be scum because he was right on steve when no one else was
I don't understand this, what does "he was right when no one else was" mean? Does he know for sure my alignment?
He has an argument with getript about getript calling him scum. Read it all and I think they are both wrong, meaning, getript just overreacts to useless fluff.
After that prplz has some nice questions about both me and gumshoe.
He votes for holyflare which I agree with and generally I think is a good protown vote.
I'd say I'm leaning more towards town atm for him.
Except one thing, he changed his mind like 3 times on me and 2 on gum already. He doesn't question rayn at all, at any point. I want to ask prpls what's his current opinion on raynkoshi.
On April 04 2014 04:11 raynpelikonoshi wrote: Koshi says:
Steveling (only trying to win his group currently)
Make HF his group last.
Busted? We all agree we have to win our cells first and foremost and then look at other cells. In this setup a lynch removes an entire cell from the game, so town is hurt more than MY than scum by scum lynch?
I'm under suspicion so I'm obviously trying to make seem as town and get us a point? Scumslip?
Even though it was a lie, since I'm filtering cell 5 atm. I also like how you conveniently ask for HF who blindly trusts you to be the last cell, lol.
dude...
1) Own cell is important but you aren't saying anything about any other cell. And you are more fighting than trying to solve game.
2) What scumslip? I don't even know what you refer to.
3) What does HF being last have anything to do with HF trusting me? I want his cell last because I don't know who the scum is in there. Do you want HF group to be first 3? Tell me why.
I'm not saying anything about other people because some hours ago you ignored my posts and talked about other cells like "its np guys, confirmed scum here, its steveling, lets move on". Since for some reason people are blindly following you I had my hands full with my defence.
I assume you are a good player, everyone else says so, then you say that I focus on my cell like it's a bad thing while it clearly isn't. Then again you have't displayed many signs of rational thinking in this game so mby I was wrong to assume that about you and that it was a scumslip.
I think it's obvious that I mean that you want HF last because he trusts you. Ez game if you are scum. Yes?
On April 02 2014 03:47 prplhz wrote: so maybe the mayor doesn't matter much
so how we rank these groups. i think we should have annoying unreadable players on d1 since more time with them isn't going to give us more information. there's a small consideration in that we kind of might get people's flip when their group is up so it might be a good idea to put a group with good players in d3 so later towns have something to go on for sure.
dunno though, all of these groups seems okay. if anything, i think cell4 is a good group for first lynch.
Rayn you liked this post and I absolutely hate it. Why in the world do you like this post? This is an awful post and you should know why? You roll scum?
I just figured it out. I was approaching the game stupidly and from the wrong perspective.
~rayn
So explain why I'm right and help push for me as mayor or die.
I just made a post about it. Or asked other people about it. You lynch the groups where you know mafia is and make the order based on reads after ~40 hours or so. If there are similar groups / a lot of unsureness you first pick the groups where there are players who are most likely not paying attention later on in the game (for example kush is never going to reread the thread, ever).
But who gets to be the mayor does not matter. If you can explain to me why does it matter go ahead.
~rayn
No I don't like your reasoning. I'm not saying you're wrong on what you've said (skimmed), but the stance:
On April 02 2014 03:47 prplhz wrote: so maybe the mayor doesn't matter much
Is a super odd stance for a towny to make. It's neither stating, "I don't fucking care who mayor is and I don't fucking care about the order" OR "I super care about who the mayor is and what the order is." I've seen and played in a number of odd games and I've taken a number of unique stances about things myself, but I don't think I've ever seen a stance that's so bland about it. Like that's a really, really weird way to approach this game and I'm not liking you right now for not picking up on this specifically.
Ryankoshi 180's on his policy and getript calls him out for his stance. Actually getript is right here.
Prplz attacks him because he/they are confident, lol.
Ryankoshi sheeps prplz, hmmm interesting.
Umm, there's a raynkoshi quote in his getript's filter,
On April 02 2014 05:26 raynpelikonoshi wrote: Okay geript is scum. There is no way he is town in this game. Reasoning: You don't policy lynch in this setup. You don't even think about it because you can read the other two people in the group and decide the lynch based on reads on those people.
There is no way geript brings up some fluff like policy lynches as town. Not in this game. The post prplhz quoted is full of nothing, policies after policies. The post is nothing and says nothing useful.
~rayn
The same ryankoshi that apparently has brotherhood bonds with HF and Palmar is not now saying that policy judgment in this setup is bad. That's a new one, why don't you try telling that to your buddies ryan? lmao
On April 02 2014 05:07 raynpelikonoshi wrote: But who gets to be the mayor does not matter. If you can explain to me why does it matter go ahead.
~rayn
I disagree. I want to be mayor because I want Holyflare out super early on. I don't trust him to play lategame because the groups are mostly 1 good player and 2 ok players. That moves to town loss super quickly. Plus, we should be voting town for mayor because they can give a reasonable assessment of who the "powerful scum" are that they want early. Low hanging fruit scum who are not likely to affect the game are fine to keep in until later on. I don't get why you'd want to trust players who aren't as good to decide your fate. I 100% think I can nail scum in the first two groups but I'm also realistic that there's a good chance for mislynching in those first two as well.
You don´t have to be mayor to get Holyflare out early on. If your reasoning is good there might be a chance of other people sharing your opinion thus leading to him being out early on. You can´t really tell who is town at the moment, so voting town as mayor is quite difficult. Also (as I already said) I don´t think it is too immportant who the mayor is. Exchanging opinions on the cell order and letting the majority decide seems like the best option for me.
Yes I can. My townreads are very good and very good early on. Hell my scumreads tend to be very good early on too. I'm a top tier town player and anyone who disagrees with that either doesn't like me or is lying. ~geript
That's bad, getript, that's not confidence, xD.
Policy lynching stuff after that, bad getript bad.
On April 02 2014 10:31 getmoript wrote: I'll talk more about slam later but I'm reevaluating that whole group. His kill me post was really town Slam IMO and you got your read on him from me. I don't like your gumshoe case. I don't hate it but I don't like it. I'll filter both after work.
Of course you donät like it because you are prolly mafia.
~rayn
God Rayn you are like super fucking infuriating when you don't listen to me. Like I don't really care what your alignment is right now but I'm not going to listen to your scum reads anymore. Like you half bother explaining them and then you always ignore me just like you did on Toad. The sad thing is I'm pretty sure Palmer's going to phone it in and the you and HF are going to drive town into the dirt. Like I'm not sure that you're scum but regardless of your alignment what you're doing is a real dick move and I don't appreciate it.
That gives me confidence in my scumread on ryankoshi.
Sentinel your most figured out cell is the 1st? Share thoughts?
And another question, why ryankoshi for mayor over hf?
Oh and your opening post earlier about me is ever more flawed than what you claim for mine. You argue about semantics and how some people were tunneling others or that I had a neutral and not towny read for others. Man the exact same things are true for ryankoshi or any other player. Yes?
On April 02 2014 03:44 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Also, why do I have to get stuck with Palmar
I don't understand this. Explain the not happy face.
Palmar is probably the player I have the hardest time reading in this game. It's going to be hard trying to figure the scum in my own cell, even.
seriously? it's 50/50, right? how can that be so worrying?
Because lynching by coinflip is such a popular strategy on this site, right?
As a member of group 3 I still like that order because I don't have to play for a long time, although Coag's not too unpredictable, kush you can usually see once you wade past all the bullshit, and Palmar... I'll think of something.
On April 02 2014 04:33 raynpelikonoshi wrote: Sentinel what i want to know is do you want to lynch into your group or not and why. Do you consider yourself unreadable?
~rayn
I consider myself perfectly readable. I am town, thus I know that I am town.
I consider myself pretty easy to read by others, if I had to guess what my town/scum features would be, it's that I get a lot more frustrated as town. In Noir I was a lot more logical and active than usual because I had 5 people to calm me down and streamline my behavior. With town I either get mad and stop caring (Nuclear Winter), or tunnel someone because I can't be arsed to do anything else (Roulette).
So what's the problem? Palmar is also perfectly readable, if not to you to many other people. Regardless of if Coag is readable or not your group should be easy to figure out. If you are town why do you want to get yourself "out of the game"?
~rayn
Ups and downs. D2 I'll be a very happy person.
If you are in the "many other people", how does town Palmar differ from scum Palmar? In all my experience with him all I've seen is a monolith
You understand sentinel that in a mafia game you have to provide reads, no matter what, no matter your alignment. Yet you take that stance towards the strongest player in your cell almost before the game even starts. Definitely scum points here, you could be trying to get in his good side and give a good excuse to sheep him if he false reads your cell.
He agrees with me on an early dive on gumshoe.
On April 03 2014 05:20 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: First off, gumshoe because his filter came up first:
Steve dived him here which I'd like to somewhat expound on. The conversation he brings up:
On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote: Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn
Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment.
So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
~rayn
"Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play.
So your honest opinion is that you don't need to give away your alignment to anyone but everyone needs to do so to you?
Also another question. We have 2 imaginary groups X and Y. In group X there is confimed mafia. In group Y there are 3 people who are all really hard to read. Which of the following scenarios in your opinion results more likely in 2 scumlynches: 1) Lynch the confirmed scum in group X, and have 96 hours to figure out the mafia in group Y, or 2) Figure out the mafia in group Y in 48 hours, then lynch the confirmed scum in group X ?
I have answered every question directed at me so far, but I feel no need to divulge information that might jeopardize my efforts to trip up scum unless I don't have much choice I. The matter. Especially when it comes to the person whose my default top scum read.
As for your question, 2' because confirmed scum isn't going anywhere. They can be literally killed at any time and I rather lynch question marks while everyone is still invested in the game. I have taken on this mind set strictly because the setup holds no surprises. If I'm scum, why would I champion something like that if my buddy gets lynched by day3 anyways? What do I gain aside from towns ire?
While going for unconfirmed scum first is fishy (and scummy), what stood out to me was gum's resistance to providing information further within the quote. This is looking like town play, just very bad town play - if I was a scum in gumshoe's position I wouldn't want to encourage rayn to make red reads on me. I'd actually be paying a lot more attention to what rayn is saying and trying to get either him or Steve into the frying pan. As town, gum can be full of hubris. As scum, it's attracting way too much attention, and someone in the QT would have shut him up. I do agree with steve that the other part of that quote is pretty scummy thinking though.
He then throws a light punch at me
On April 03 2014 08:32 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Why wouldn't Steve have a definite red target in his own cell?
The same player that basically refused to comment on his cell is asking me why I can't make up my mind in our cell so early in the game, when even now, even after ryankoshi's modkill people are not sure of his alignment, lol. Double standards much sentinel? More scumpoints for this.
Later
On April 03 2014 11:17 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: A general impression from a quick skim of the 13 pages of roshi's filter:
If I had to distinguish between town rayn and scum rayn, is that rayn plays scum like CNN - seemingly factual, but carefully omitting anything that doesn't support it, and shifting away the attention before anyone starts asking "why?"
The case on gumshoe seems a bit myopic but legitimate, something I'd see coming from yamato more than rayn. Sure it's very detailed and sourced but it's almost to the point where rayn's letting his frustration with gum lead his argument instead of the other way around. More Fox than CNN.
He says raynkoshi's gumshoe case is so good and flawless that they have to be scum? what? I like how he re-validates ryankoshi's legit points about gum but again he doesn't take a stance. Fun fact, towards neither of the two. And this was supposed to be a brief summary of his 13page filter dive on rayn, nice results sentinel, lmao.
Later he conveniently takes ryankoshi's side on a silly meta argument.
On April 03 2014 12:19 Tehpoofter wrote: So I'm really glad that I just read through 20 pages of gum/rayn fighting. Going into it I had a town read on rayn scum on gum and null on steve. Coming out of it gum looks even scummier steve looks scummy and so does rayn tbh. (there has to be 2 towns in each group right?)
Like I could make cases on all of you guys, GUM: basically to me Rayn's case on gum is really strong he pretends to set some trap that doesn't work (but seems like it would only catch town if it did work) and then calls rayn scum for it. I thought rayn refuted his claim pretty well and answered some questions on it. Balla brought up a good point last night about how gum accussed rayn of doing the same thing he was doing in ignoring steve and being scummy for it. I think gum went into mega defensive mode and just started throwing shit at rayn and rayn did the same until rayn saw gum say he swears hes town.
Tell me what scum gum's rationale would be for blatantly ignoring rayn's criticisms when rayn is one of the most sheep-able people on this forum.
More sheeping? And you base a read on gum saying that what he did was illogical because sheeping ryan would be the logical thing instead? Da faq
Later on he says that my anger burst about the oath thing was fake. Even though he says that, again, he doesn't take a freaking stance. I literally haven't seen that before in any mafia games, xD.
And if you think that it wasn't legit sentinel you are basically calling me a retard for doing something so silly, because it would be silly to fake it no matter my alignment.
After ryan's and gum's oath thing, I had to examine why ryan did it. I made a case with the points I thought were valid. Sentinel goes to sleep and his first post opening his day is against my ryan case. He accuses me that I falsely counted my town reads and that ryan was a bigger towny than me. Two things are wrong in his syllogism, first, the semantics he explains are firmly applicable to every other mafia player and not only me. Some people had me down as neutral and not as town, that goes for ryan too though, you didn't say that in your argument. Second, my main point wasn't that I was more towny than rayn, it was that I was green enough, so that ryan would be scared of me taking gumshoe's side. You didn't address this at all.
The case he made against my case(why would a towny do that, instead of providing new thoughts), was pretty big. Here I spoiler it + Show Spoiler +
On April 04 2014 05:35 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I have to leave before deadline, but I'm voting for rayn. Steve's case is fundamentally flawed from the beginning:
On April 03 2014 18:57 Steveling wrote: There's only one question here, why did they do that? I couldn't think of anything until I read multiple posts while filtering regarding the reason that scumryankoshi did what they did and it dawned on me.
Here are some tidbits
On April 03 2014 07:04 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: To me it looks like Steve doesn't have a concrete scumread, only a strong townread and a neutral read that has to be scum due to process of elimination.
On April 03 2014 01:03 mderg wrote:
On April 03 2014 00:51 raynpelikonoshi wrote: mderg,
Could you provide some reads? You entered the thread with a very generic statement. how do you read: raynpelikonoshi gumshoe Steveling
Steveling - neutral It seems towny to me that he was unsure about gumshoe when filtering his posts(why would scum be unsure).
On April 02 2014 22:28 gumshoe wrote:
On April 02 2014 18:15 Steveling wrote: I'm now filtering gumshoe, will be posting one liners as I'm reading through it.
Hahahaha, gum <3333, that short description of me you made, haha, that's the gum I remember.
Gum immediately gets some town points because he asks for his cellmate for thoughts on me, not random people. I explained my reasoning in my previous post.
Ummm, gum defending getript, is weird. I will have to filter getript as well to form a better opinion. Btw I think it's weird not as a scam-defends-scam thing but because getript wasn't making much sense at first glance and I recall gum from our game together as a good player, albeit with some suicidal weird plans but good overall. -town points for that but I will have to check getript as well later.
I don't like how he blindly agrees with palmar on mayor'ing him. Pls vote people by their activity and quality of posts not by their reputation.
Hmm, gum gets some scam points for the following bit
On April 02 2014 09:34 gumshoe wrote:
On April 02 2014 09:21 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
On April 02 2014 09:14 gumshoe wrote:
On April 02 2014 09:03 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
On April 02 2014 08:56 gumshoe wrote:
On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote: Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn
Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment.
So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
~rayn
"Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play.
So your honest opinion is that you don't need to give away your alignment to anyone but everyone needs to do so to you?
Also another question. We have 2 imaginary groups X and Y. In group X there is confimed mafia. In group Y there are 3 people who are all really hard to read. Which of the following scenarios in your opinion results more likely in 2 scumlynches: 1) Lynch the confirmed scum in group X, and have 96 hours to figure out the mafia in group Y, or 2) Figure out the mafia in group Y in 48 hours, then lynch the confirmed scum in group X ?
As for your question, 2' because confirmed scum isn't going anywhere. They can be literally killed at any time and I rather lynch question marks while everyone is still invested in the game. I have taken on this mind set strictly because the setup holds no surprises. If I'm scum, why would I champion something like that if my buddy gets lynched by day3 anyways? What do I gain aside from towns ire?
Open the quote to read rayns question. Srsly gum, wtf, you shouldn't be making that kind of mistake. You basically proposed to scumhunt and coin flip the first day lynch so IF we get lucky we end up with 2 semi-confirmed scum instead of taking sowing what's ripe in day1.
Alright gum about that big meta post you did on rayn. Honestly I think it's bad, you claim he accuses you of scumplay and you quote 3 previous games to prove that somehow the meta works for you? You say that "ey guys, I lied there to scumbait, rayn was falsely accusing me, so I'm doing the same thing here", can't you understand how wrong this is? Rayn has every reason in the world to accuse you in both games. Anyway, I remember that was your playstyle as well in our game together so I won't award you with scumpoints for this but if you keep at it, you are getting on my scumlist, period.
You end up this post with
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum.
Again flawed logic, wouldn't I be the easy target here and not you, a player with 4 pages of filter already?
I like your comment on mderg
On April 02 2014 13:13 gumshoe wrote: Fun fact, Steve coag and Ceph have not yet started playing really, leaving them out, six people (myself included ) have openly attacked mderg.
Geript
I'm fairly confident that mderg is the scum in Cell 2. I'm probably going to talk with g more and see what we can dig up from this one, because I'm actually kind of afraid to townread HF after the stunt he pulled in Cultured (which was fucking awesome, btw).
Tehpoofter
Makes me think Mderg scummy Sentinal town
Holy
Mderg is mafia in my group btw, that's an easy one.
Rayn
I noticed this too. I asked Koshi what does he think of this mderg guy and he said it seemed strage how he came in straight up defending the one dude in our group. Too crazy that he instant defended a scumbuddy out of nowhere so if mderg guy ends up being scum gumshoe can die in a fire.
It all fits!
Gumshoe
Whats your relation to Steveling, whats your general impression of his play and why did you feel the need to answer a question intended for someone else. Do you think Rayn is scum?
Balla
We can talk about plenty. How mderg's posts so far have been useless and scummy maybe?
Mderg is a lurky/noobish player, bad play coming out of him deserves due consideration. 50 percent of this games active players (I am not counting lurkers) find this guy scummy in a game where a third of us are scum. Yeah... lynching this guy is not getting us a red flip.
I believe there are some scum in this list you made gum. My personal opinion on mderg is that the only town read he has going for himself is when he defended me. He must have seen me posting in the football thread and he just said what he reasoned out. He's inactive or posting fluff, so I'm leaning towards scum for him but the bus'ing against him and the fact he's new made me think otherwise.
All in all I'm pretty confused with gum, I'm leaning neutral on him atm, can't make my mind.
I love this post BECAUSE it's riddled with uncertainty, this game is filled with people who have perfect reads (cause scum) it's a breath of fresh air to see someone who legit not sure of whose scum in his cell. If steve was scum, he could easily attack me or Rayn, and the way were going at it the non pick might just support his choice whole heartedly. Unfortunately for scum, steve is not just truing to survive his cell, dude be figuring shit out ( : good genuine effort in this post and a stance I feel is most likely town. Steve is cool.
On April 02 2014 12:22 Balla24 wrote: Gumshoe that case is all over the place :/ it's hard to follow (what alignments was rayn in these quotes?) but on the ending:
On April 02 2014 12:13 gumshoe wrote: Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end.
How can you say this is the most damning bit of all yet you literally just did the same thing and went 90% scum on rayn when Steveling has still "yet to open his mouth"?
Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly?
Rayn watcha think?
I used this to bait Rayn, but the fact that this exists means I thought out what his early lack of commitment might mean.
You and Rayn are firing off in every direction, trusting in your scum hunting skills to avail you I suppose, I on the other hand am pretty much zerod in on you because you are 50 percent scum XD so yeah, I can see why you might say that.
Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment.
Rayn pressed me into fighting him when I had nothing concrete to call him scum, I tried baiting him and my results were inconclusive so I back off until he pressed me into fighting with him and revealed his true self, also I clearly say repeatedly hes 50 50, therefore worthy of suspicion, but not 100 percent how does any of that reflect the mindset of someone completely set on scum Rayn from the start? .
So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
Here i present you our first...... Confirmed scumscumscumscumscum!!!! ezpz
~rayn
Like, read the fucking thread before you post Balla.
I think another key thing is Rayn doesnt once include sheer probability as a factor in his suspicion of me (like I do constantly, similar to a drowning man clinging to a raft) he presents his scum reads as if their derived from sheer skill and analysis, because probability doesnt factor into Rayn's convictions, he knows who town is and his reads will just continue to build up solely because he wills them to.
On April 02 2014 12:36 gumshoe wrote: Like, read the fucking thread before you post Balla.
I think another key thing is Rayn doesnt once include sheer probability as a factor in his suspicion of me (like I do constantly, similar to a drowning man clinging to a raft) he presents his scum reads as if their derived from sheer skill and analysis, because probability doesnt factor into Rayn's convictions, he knows who town is and his reads will just continue to build up solely because he wills them to.
What are you on about? None of that has anything to do with the contradiction you are displaying. You are calling rayn scum for being confident about his scum read on you even though Steveling has yet to contribute. Yet you are going HAM on rayn, even though steveling has still yet to contribute.
It has nothing to do with you attempting to bait rayn. What I want to know is, how can you call rayn scummy for that and say it's the "most damning bit of all" even though you are doing the exact same thing.
I backed off of Rayn after the fake case cause his response was fine, but Rayn came back for me and I explained why I lied. He then started hammering me as if he knew I was scum, whereas I was never certain of his alignment, only reasonably suspicious. He has always been far more suspect of me than I of him, I was just trying to read the guy whose in my group. Instead of talking shit Balla, show me proof that I was certain of Rayn's guilt before he was certain of mine and that I was more vocal about it.
The order of operations doesn't matter. Steveling has still done nothing, yet you are certain Rayn is mafia, and you call rayn scummy for being certain of you being mafia even though Steveling has done nothing.
On April 02 2014 12:13 gumshoe wrote: Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end.
On April 03 2014 12:19 Tehpoofter wrote: So I'm really glad that I just read through 20 pages of gum/rayn fighting. Going into it I had a town read on rayn scum on gum and null on steve.
On April 03 2014 00:59 gumshoe wrote: Rayn, we agree steve is town, can we agree to vote him mayor?
To which ryankoshi answers,
On April 03 2014 01:01 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
On April 03 2014 00:59 gumshoe wrote: Rayn, we agree steve is town, can we agree to vote him mayor?
I don't see the point.
-Koshi-
Ofc, you don't scum, ). Anyway, they also have a town read on me.
And finally here is what pieced it all together for me
On April 02 2014 19:14 Palmar wrote:
On April 02 2014 19:11 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
On April 02 2014 19:05 Palmar wrote:
On April 02 2014 19:04 Steveling wrote: Can't argue with that.
Anyway, what about you rayn, you made a bold statement accusing gum, you still think the same? And what do you think about me?
I tentatively think rayn is town. He's a bit too angry for my liking but his point on gumshoe looked really town to me.
I thought you might be scum then I realized you're in group with gumshoe who I also think is scum, so now I'm just confused.
Steve his filterdive of gumshoe touches a lot of points I didn't like about gumshoe. Like the strange defense of gum to geript. If we take into account Steve didn't yet filter my hydra makes me feel good about him.
I don't really know what to make out of the fact Steve is not taking an harder stance on gumshoe scum but I think he is just waiting a return from gumshoe to make a "final" verdict.
Anyway. My group is going to get figured out Quite certain of it.
Does it not bother you at all that Steve's approach seems to be "Keep all my options open"?
Palmar aks ryankoshi about my opinion on both ryankoshi and gumshoe. Yes, as a matter of fact they do mind, not as town but as scum. They do care that I have not yet sided completely with them. They do mind that there is a slight chance of me turning against them and siding with gum and they want none of this. Everyone and their mama had me cleared as town, like most of the active players. Those who didn't read me as town read me as neutral and ryankoshi were crapping their pants because I wasn't that aggressive against gum.
So, they had to go back to gum's and mine filters to try and find the tinniest, silliest, most illogical thread of garbage excuse to try and do a 180 on gum and turn on me. And they did exactly that, the oath excuse. (facepalm)
In the six posts that you call, in your words, "Everyone and their mama had me cleared as town, like most of the active players. Those who didn't read me as town read me as neutral", many arguments are either wrong or against you:
Two are from gumshoe, who considers you town but at the same time has been tunneling rayn. He actually mentioned here (in the Balla quote):
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end.
This isn't someone calling you town, this is someone tunneling rayn and saying that rayn is scum because from the two of you, you're the scummier one, yet he's still going after gum. Gum himself seems to have tripped over his argument - wouldn't it be a lot easier to implicate you than him, and thus more "convenient" to fight? You're labeled as green by association, because if rayn is scum as gum believes, you can't physically be scum. But again, gum's argument is flawed and not good evidence for your own.
Balla actually points this out. He's accusing you of doing nothing and gumshoe being too myopic to realize that. Which is correct, or was at that point in time at least. You're scummier than rayn, which means you're either null and gum is scum in his eyes, or the other way around.
The other gumshoe post of note is the one where he praises your game for being "riddled with uncertainty", which I previously said was relatively logical (i.e. he's not tunneling and you're approaching gum open-mindedly), although then I changed that to scummy because you didn't have a good stance and it was even evidenced in your read of rayn as town and gum as slightly town.
mderg finds you neutral - your dive of gumshoe might be towny according to him, but that would indicate the rest of your play is a little lacking, no?
I had a slight red read on you. I still do, and between schoolwork and essays I'll see how your more recent activity changes that. I thought it was implied in "one sketchy motherfucker", but alas.
tehpoofter finds you neutral. I'm going to have to re-examine some of his words, I believe that conversation we had was unfinished and unresolved.
So in total, we have one mostly green read (gum), two neutrals (poofter and mderg, and balla), and one red read (sentinel).
Rayn's own town read, like gum's was association due to tunneling at that point.
I'm a bit late with this but I haven't had an opportunity (as in, time) to examine Steve and get my thoughts on about how he went from a green read on rayn to a red read. I think it's completely contrived and really makes me doubt a lot of the other stuff he's been building onto that case.
If you had the patience to read the end you would know that once again, sentinel didn't call anyone out.
I'm a bit late with this but I haven't had an opportunity (as in, time) to examine Steve and get my thoughts on about how he went from a green read on rayn to a red read. I think it's completely contrived and really makes me doubt a lot of the other stuff he's been building onto that case.
He just laid some facts down for us, how thoughtful of him.
Finally, he accuses his first player as scum.
On April 04 2014 06:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: @Steve
Afk. Making up a few essays I missed due to a business conference last week.
That whole post I made wasn't saying you're scum because of semantics/tunnel. This is what I was saying:
- Your argument on rayn is flawed, X Y and Z are the specific flaws - Your judgment of rayn's actions is wrong because you're drawing from a point in the game where gum and rayn weren't thinking clearly
You're scum because:
- You spent a while tunneling rayn based on a flawed argument which I perceive as contrived - Up until your prplhz argument was finally pushed out, you spent the time between your first red case on rayn and your case on prplhz tunneling rayn and not looking for other scum or any other discussion. It's not that you tunneled, it's that you tunneled badly, and unlike gum it's a lot harder to find the markings of bad town play.
After he had some sweet scouting time, to see if I'd be everyone's favorite victim he decided that yes, I'm good enough to blame without him taking heat for it. He hasn't said anything about scum before, he just straight up jumps on an accusation. His accusation is arguably against the easiest target in the game by that point, me.
Then there's something very weird, I thought upon reading it that I accidentally skipped some posts but no. He votes for ##coagulation without explaining why. Sentinel&page=3]page3 on his filter, pls see for yourselves. He hasn't mentioned coag literally not even once in his filter, besides his early post "buhu, my cell is so unreadable, poor me".
Note that he does that only after other people paint coag red, like gumshoe and slam.
Aaand that's all. I won't yet yell he's the scum in there, simply because I haven't yet filtered palmar and coag. But his play is ultra super scummy.
On April 04 2014 20:31 Coagulation wrote: BTW stevo's last post. That is a scum post. That is how scum make long posts. Summarizing his filter in a pejorative light without doing any deep analysis.
Then how would you describe your filter coag, lol. If you say my dive on him is not deep analysis, then by these standards you have done absolutely nothing in this game so far. Am I right?
How do you come to these conclusions man? You may be right, I haven't examined palmar yet but you said yourself in the previous post that you haven't filtered sentinel. How do you say that he looks scummy as town and if you believe that what are the reasons for it? Am I wrong believing in logical conclusions?
Well, I didn't know that. Sry if I offended you. But you now do have the time to start playing properly, yes? So, stop making claims based solely on meta and provide your own analysis' since you said that mine was shallow, yes?
He starts by saying how dumb this early phase is in multiple posts.
Yet he has 9 pages so far, lol. Don't blame him for that with all that happened but this is a point to consider.
This was one of this first posts
On April 02 2014 09:45 Palmar wrote:
I honestly don't think the order has any impact on the game at all. But I'm fine with being first.
I like how now that raynkoshi ninjaswapped palmar's cell order he didn't bat an eye. A scum would likely throw a tantrum on rayn for doing that. Town points for this consistency.
So much fluff it hurts my brain. Some slight accusations on a couple people, nothing of substance.
Oh right, then there's this dialog between him and HF about mderg's meta. Actually palmar was right on this one. HF jumped on mderg's for a bad reason. Not posting quotes for this, since the convo is broke, so here's a link.
Complains how poofter "keeps all options open" but so far he's doing the same, lol.
On April 02 2014 22:44 prplhz wrote: hey gum how you feel about palmar and flare?
Flare is scum probs, Plam I'm not sure yet ) : he thinks I'm scum and hes pretty cozy with Rayn, but his group is so hard to read, It still holds a total lurker (coag) and sentinel is resoundingly null. Need to see more out of them before I can be sure on him.
This is really bad.
The reason I think you're mafia is the same reason I think Rayn is town, and your alignments are mutually exclusive unless Steve is mafia. So if I agree with a rayn point on you, that automatically makes me think rayn is town because you can't both be mafia.
So, under the recent turn of events what do you think now Palmar? Do you think raynkoshi were scum? Does that affect your view on getript?
Palmar on ryankoshi's case
On April 02 2014 23:07 Palmar wrote: Also rayn's case is solid, I'm sheeping the fuck out of that
???? Again, under the recent turn of events what do you think Palmar?
On April 03 2014 02:25 prplhz wrote: i mean unless you're afraid of the spaghetti monster or the mafia police then i don't see why you didn't just do it
and if you are afraid of those indubitably real entities then it's actually an argument you should be able to understand
Please don't do it Steveling.
It's entirely possible swearing on your life breaks either the townie seal rule (the townie seal is basically a promise you're town) or the no bets rule (big stakes, your life )
So yeah.
He was one of the few to admit that it might be cheating. No town/scum points for that but I award you with cool points.
On April 03 2014 22:04 Palmar wrote: Holy has your read on mderg not changed at all now that he's back in the thread and posting?
Slightly more towny yes, he seems more convicted but that would make poofter scum and he's been pointing out good things imo
Mderg hasn't considered poofter as scum over me from what I've seen him posting and mderg mentions things that he has never commented on in the entire game.
I.e. His own wagon which he didn't comment on when he returned to the thread. Which would be the first thing i mention if i had a wagon on me
This is interesting because you seem to have given the chance of poof being scum almost no consideration either. I skimmed your filter and almost all your posts about poofter are you encouraging him to agree with you on mdario.
Yes because i considered it in my mind and then read his posts on people like prpl etc and thought it was good that he was finding things like that. Whereas mder has said nothing other than defences on people that shouldn't have town defences like steve and gumshoe when he was under attack etc
Do you think Steve is mafia, do you think he'll get lynched tomorrow?
Yes i think steve is mafia for his cheating reaction
But do you think he'll get lynched tomorrow if rayn is chosen mayor?
I don't honestly care?
You're mafia.
Out of the blue.
Then for 2 pages again goes between me and gumshoe.
On April 04 2014 08:57 Palmar wrote: ##Vote Coag
I'm not going to wifom myself into thinking you really don't give a shit as town.
That's also out of the blue, can't blame him since coag was semi-afk and rly not giving a crap but I don't like it.
Nvm, my previous questions, upon ending his filter he says that he still sees Raynkoshi as town after all that.
On April 04 2014 23:18 Coagulation wrote: seems like you didn't care long before those things happened.
Yes because b has been true the entire game. Regardless of if we killed scum or not. I honestly don't care. I would play harder if i was scum and that were the case. Just like hogwarts where half my team died and i did the same or survivor where all my team was afk or culture where i killed my entire team and still played
It's pretty simple that i just don't care and am town
and here he is trying to make it seem like not giving a shit makes him town.
well stones, glass houses.
But I actually agree with you, Holyflare is likely to be mafia. His meta/do nothing read on mderg was incredibly lazy. And even if he later said the meta part was not that important, when he was pushing the case he was asking people to go back and read that other game.
Then when mderg actually came in and contributed HF didn't really bat an eye, or reconsider his position.
I think he agrees with coag rather easily? Also he defended multiple people against accusations he thought unjustified before but he finds this very logical rly fast. This is a meta judgment on HF so I don't really have an opinion but I find it weird.
Palmar has a lot of useless fluff and not a single real case against anyone. Scumpoints by me given how much more we expect from him.
On April 05 2014 00:45 Steveling wrote: Shall I take an oath? lmao Anyway, stick to the points pls and argue if you want.
Also don't rustle your jimmies, to my eyes you look like a white angel compared to sentinel and I haven't even touch on coag yet.
I don't care whether or not you want to vote me, I care that your case is fundamentally wrong, and I want to know why it's wrong.
How can you say me calling HF is out of the blue, or that I agree fast with Coag, when half of your case is dedicated to talking about how I've been suspicious of HF throughout the game, all the way since his meta stuff which you even say is correct, which implies you actualy read it.
Like I can understand not reading the game, but did you even read your own case?
Oh I see what you mean. You mean that it was obvious from your convo that you thought HF's play as scummy and that you reached a logical conclusion.
Well, it seemed out of the blue to me because I think HF was right in that case and I was like "wtf, why is palmar calling him scum".
On April 05 2014 02:21 prplhz wrote: no of course rayn isn't anything because of a drunk ragequit in the middle of the night, except probably mad
i have no idea why people believe his scumclaim but not anything else he said
Personally, I think rayn made some damn good points but only when he wanted. The oath thing and the drunk thing can't really be taken as protown play. No matter how you see it.
Gumshoe again is making stuff up as you said. If you read mine and gumshoes filter you will notice gumshoe made stuff again yesterday when he jumped on me, multiple people pointed that out. He's doing the same thing now. Both cases have something in common, he jumps, making stuff up, on the easiest at the time victim, me yesterday, palmar now.
I made my view on palmar earlier, I'm not claiming his green, I'm saying gumshoe acts suspiciously all game long.
But I still haven't dived coag, I need to do that asap.
On April 05 2014 02:48 gumshoe wrote: Ok, lets make this simple shall we? You have said over and over that I am not this dumb and therefore scum. Palmer, my group was likely to be a no lynch, if we lynch you today and your green, we can just lynch me on day 3. No take backsies. Its a 1 for 1 if im wrong and scum. But if I'm right, this whole game turns on its head. I mean, your done today no matter what, so whats wrong with the trade?
People are unwilling to consider Plam and Rayn because they have played well, but they can do that as scum / : Rayn has claimed scum and despite the circumstance of that, is Plamar not more likely scum if Rayn is telling the truth? If we lynch Coag or sent, who gives a shit, we will learn absolutely nothing, lynch palmar though and we can reveal how this game has been controlled by scum since the start.
Not according to me and some others, lol.
As for the rest of your post, first of all rayn hasn't claimed. He did and then he town claimed, he even left his "last will" reads to to speak. Some people think he scum claimed, some not but for a most people he didn't scumclaim. People who know him well say that he did, like HF. People who don't, say that he didn't, like prplz.
Second, your point would be valid in a normal setup. You are telling us to lynch palmar to get reads off of it? In a game which whole cells are removed after a lynch? Really? In what world is that logical. Scum can bus whomever they want exactly because this is a cell removal setup. You have no solid reason to say what you just said.
Honestly gum, make some sense pls, talk to me. Target whomever you want but make valid points pls.
As corny as HF sounds, that's what I gathered from all other player's posts. That rayn, HF and Palmar are some kind of mafia NAVI that are never wrong and are gonna rape us.
On April 03 2014 01:51 Coagulation wrote: lynch slam. rayns meta read is spot on
I don't know about that, people who know both of them speak up pls? Is he right?
Second,
On April 04 2014 08:20 Coagulation wrote: im cool with being lynched or w/e cause im not reading this shit anyway if im just gonna be lynched. btw im town so umm sent is likely the scum in my group. toodles. -coag
This is the only thing of note from his 1st page. Take it as you will, it doesn't sit well with me. People that know him like Palmar say that's something a town coag would do, I can't say the same. Again with the damned meta, why don't you people treat every game as a different one? Not all of us have played a bazillion games with you.
Next page
On April 04 2014 08:40 Coagulation wrote: right.....
##vote sentinal
This come right after raynkoshi are modkilled but I don't know why, there isn't a single sentinel post in the 3 previous pages. Mby meta again? Coag explain pls?
Again scumclaming against sentinel with this
On April 04 2014 11:46 Coagulation wrote: hes wiffle waffling and super over defensive and hes upset rayn who is cinfirmed scum quit. ezpz
In my own sentinel post I found him as I said "flimsy" so we agree here. I can't speak about rayn confirmed. I admit it fits though.
On April 04 2014 19:09 Steveling wrote: Um, whatever, I guess? Since cell1 is day3 let's focus on the cells in line first?
Anyone here?
This dude is one trillion percent confirmed scum.
and
On April 04 2014 20:36 Coagulation wrote: I WAS WRONg about you stevo, im sorry. Actually you are you scummy, you are too scummy to be scum and go back to being townie.
Umm, ok? lol
Page3 and we have some action,
On April 04 2014 20:43 Coagulation wrote: ok so palmar is scum.
A bus d1 is pretty unlikely, especially from a player type like sentinel. Sentinel looks scummy as town.
Palmar is trying to be a town hero. ##unvote ##vote palmar
His reasons for flipping between them
On April 04 2014 20:47 Coagulation wrote: Also, palmar has a history of being a very active scum player. Not recently maybe, but definitely in the past. That means the capability for a 9 page filter is there. IN fact, the heightened importance of this game makes it even more likely that scum palmar would bring out the try hard.
and
On April 04 2014 20:57 Coagulation wrote: Sentinel is scummy as town. Pure meta. Haven't read a single post of his. But I have played several games with him and he is very often thought to be scummy for his aloof play. Objectively, that alone makes him more likely to be town.
Plus the unlikelihood of a bus needs to be considered. Rayn is not a lynch bait player, which makes him less likely to be bussed. Also Sentinel is not a heavy buser as scum (metaread). Also, busing is down trending. Everyone expects scum to bus now, so it has lost its effectiveness. It has become a better play to defend your scum team instead.
So let me get this straight coag. First you sheep another person's meta read, for agreeing with your meta read that sentinel is scummy. And then you say that
On April 04 2014 20:57 Coagulation wrote: Sentinel is scummy as town. Pure meta.
What? Many scum points for that.
He scumclaims against HF after that, with the following reasoning,
On April 04 2014 23:00 Coagulation wrote: Also holyflare is 100% scum due to the fact that he's present but not doing anything. He's been useless all game. He's been nitpicking hardcore. He is picking out where people's logic is bad without the end in mind to catch scum.
Coag blaming another player for being useless all game, >.< .
On April 02 2014 10:30 Holyflare wrote: No poofter the best strategy is to find scum. This is easiest in your own cell because if you are town it's between 2 people and then you just find the obvious inconsistencies and mafia behavioural patterns because you 100% know one of them is scum. Just because the mechanics are a little different doesn't mean the underlying principle of finding and lynching mafia have changed.
Just find the mafia in the cell and point them out and then move on and find more.
But I suck at this.
Holyflare, if you had to say one of LSB and Balla is scum, who, why?
However if I am scummier than both, why?
No idea, lsb's post of what order to lynch stuff looked really terrible. Can't remember much i just got in from bday celebrating and skimmed!
Yet he is blaming his not caring on shit that happened after this. He is pulling excuses straight out of his asshole.
On April 02 2014 21:02 Holyflare wrote: I used meta as a support to confirm that what he was doing was weird in the first place. If you take away the meta, what he's done is still nothing but fake looking activity.
That's the point, it doesn't confirm anything and you're making it look like it does.
I didn't know it was 3 days into a game if it's his 3rd post because that's ridiculous to assume. Either way his FIRST post on you still illustrates the same point. He hasn't made any posts like that this game.
And that post is 24 hours into the game.
Your point?
Seriously, wtf are you doing? REGARDLESS OF META, his posts this game say absolutely nothing. I don't honestly care if his post happened 4 days into the game or 4 hours into the game. If i metad him wrong, boo hoo, i didn't read well enough about the time in a game.
It's very simple for mafia to hide behind posts like he's made. Either way, i asked steve what he thought of people blindly agreeing with what i said, what is YOUR opinion on that seeing as you say it's wrong. I haven't really seen your opinion at all on anything.
classic scumslip. thanks for the insight on what mafia do. had some recent first hand experience with that huh?
On April 03 2014 23:34 Steveling wrote: As I explained, I was the most green player.
I was so green that when gum proposed me as mayor couple people were like "whatever, ok". That's why he was afraid. And if you go back to ryan's filter you will notice that he did that mental gymnastics with gumshoe exactly when I was in the mayor talk, which I didn't even want to, as I said I have no experience as mayor.
Pay attention pls, if they are scum, they know that I am town. And I was not 100% with them against gum which means they could very well lose the cell, right? It also explains his fixation on getript.
Don't forget that while they made some good points about gumshoe, he doesn't have a valid point against getript(besides getript's very early weird posts which are not enough for the heat he's receiving by rayn imo).
And I'm getting down to my previous point, the majority didn't thought of him as town.
We are 15 players. Gum, getript and per my hypothesis, me, were against him, minus him, that's 11 players left. From these 11 coal and ceph were lurking. That's 9 left, from these 9 mderg, sentinel, slam, lsb, poofter and balla did not, I repeat in bold and if I'm wrong pls uses quotes from their filters, did not have yet an opinion on ryankoshi. With the power of logic we can deduce that 9-6=3. Me+gum+getript=3 as well.
I feel so bad in this game, I'm getting punished because I got mad at a fundamentally wrong mafia play that I think is cheating. Ryan still refuses to show any semblance of coherence whatsoever, I'm busting my head reading filters all day trying to come to logical conclusions and I'm getting fos'd.
Anyway, do we agree holyflare now that the majority didn't find him town at that point? Do we agree that I was greener than a Peter Jackson prairie film shot?
Do these 2 points make my argument about ryankoshi's 180 feasible at all?
How is the bolded true at all? You also can't include yourself in the anti rayn train or mderg BECAUSE YOU TWO ONLY SWITCHED TO RAYN AFTER HIS SWITCH.
On April 03 2014 20:31 mderg wrote: I think you are scum and just trying to get a fast and easy lynch on one player in your cell (me). First you point me out as certain scum like 4 hours into the game. After that almost every suspicion or calling people out was strongly related to me (gumshoe defended me concerning my wagon, I defended steveling). You didn´t really push any other cases, mainly focused on people with a connection to the case on me. So I thought I´d ask you which cell you want to be up first to reinforce my suspicion. You answered exactly like I thought you would by searching for a fast and easy misslynch on me. Right now the only real reads to be made on me flipping town would be regarding cell1 which has been in chaos the whole game. Not much for the other scum to fear.
That´s my take on you right now, Holyflare
I am a strong town player who is top of the power rankings. I can solve games if i stay in them. The only reason i want to lynch our cell first is because you look really scummy and - 1 scum is better early than a potential mislynch.
If i was scum I'd want to stay in the game longer and manipulate as many people into mislynching as possible
CONFIRMED LOSS IN POWER RANKINGS BUTTHURT
He has one and a half valid points but he's throwing too much weight on them for such a bold claim I think. One being the argument HF had vs Palmar regarding mderg's meta, HF was wrong on that. The half being HF perma-reading ryankoshi as town even after his death.
The rest are not proper arguments.
After some fluff posts
On April 05 2014 02:04 Coagulation wrote: palmar is really engaged. looks quite town, so it must be sent right? ##unvote ##vote sent
Da faq?
Like couple posts above guys, you can read that he said.
On April 04 2014 20:47 Coagulation wrote: Also, palmar has a history of being a very active scum player. Not recently maybe, but definitely in the past. That means the capability for a 9 page filter is there. IN fact, the heightened importance of this game makes it even more likely that scum palmar would bring out the try hard.
Then he says that palmar seems engaged and 180 or rather 360 against sentinel again??????????
What? This is a huge scum point award by me. Like these posts are even on the same page in his filter.
Aaand that's all about coag. Lol, I don't even, by far the scummiest of the 3.
So coag get's a mental-level-CRAZY diagnosis paper and is free to do and say what he wants? Anyway, I see some new posts I have to address along with yours gum.
On April 05 2014 02:48 gumshoe wrote: Ok, lets make this simple shall we? You have said over and over that I am not this dumb and therefore scum. Palmer, my group was likely to be a no lynch, if we lynch you today and your green, we can just lynch me on day 3. No take backsies. Its a 1 for 1 if im wrong and scum. But if I'm right, this whole game turns on its head. I mean, your done today no matter what, so whats wrong with the trade?
People are unwilling to consider Plam and Rayn because they have played well, but they can do that as scum / : Rayn has claimed scum and despite the circumstance of that, is Plamar not more likely scum if Rayn is telling the truth? If we lynch Coag or sent, who gives a shit, we will learn absolutely nothing, lynch palmar though and we can reveal how this game has been controlled by scum since the start.
Not according to me and some others, lol.
As for the rest of your post, first of all rayn hasn't claimed. He did and then he town claimed, he even left his "last will" reads to to speak. Some people think he scum claimed, some not but for a most people he didn't scumclaim. People who know him well say that he did, like HF. People who don't, say that he didn't, like prplz.
Second, your point would be valid in a normal setup. You are telling us to lynch palmar to get reads off of it? In a game which whole cells are removed after a lynch? Really? In what world is that logical. Scum can bus whomever they want exactly because this is a cell removal setup. You have no solid reason to say what you just said.
Honestly gum, make some sense pls, talk to me. Target whomever you want but make valid points pls.
No, your totally wrong, we get more out of lynching for info in this setup, because 1: the person is going to die anyways, so we dont lose anything but the point when we kill them.
2: Your looking at it the wrong way bus wise, you think scum can bus any cell, its not like that, think of it as an election, say your scum team is rayn mdern palmer prplz slam
You CANNOT throw the cells your are likely to win (ie plamar and rayn) you want to work to make sure those cells pan out no matter what because the mdern and slam cells can very well fail (leaving prp as a swing vote. It's like an election, where each side feels they can win certain states, and only like 12 are in the balance. If you have palmar in a cell with coag and sent, there is no reason palmar should lose that match and scum should do as much as they can to make sure that doesnt happen, thereby leaving clear connections.
No no and no. This is wrong, period. You don't lynch anyone with the end game in mind in this setup, I think that's clear.
On April 05 2014 03:06 gumshoe wrote:
No, your totally wrong, we get more out of lynching for info in this setup, because 1: the person is going to die anyways, so we dont lose anything but the point when we kill them.
I'll push for a lynch on you when our time comes if you keep going with this logic. How can you not get that this is criminal? This is the post you wanted me to see and comment on? facepalm
On April 05 2014 02:48 gumshoe wrote: Ok, lets make this simple shall we? You have said over and over that I am not this dumb and therefore scum. Palmer, my group was likely to be a no lynch, if we lynch you today and your green, we can just lynch me on day 3. No take backsies. Its a 1 for 1 if im wrong and scum. But if I'm right, this whole game turns on its head. I mean, your done today no matter what, so whats wrong with the trade?
People are unwilling to consider Plam and Rayn because they have played well, but they can do that as scum / : Rayn has claimed scum and despite the circumstance of that, is Plamar not more likely scum if Rayn is telling the truth? If we lynch Coag or sent, who gives a shit, we will learn absolutely nothing, lynch palmar though and we can reveal how this game has been controlled by scum since the start.
Not according to me and some others, lol.
As for the rest of your post, first of all rayn hasn't claimed. He did and then he town claimed, he even left his "last will" reads to to speak. Some people think he scum claimed, some not but for a most people he didn't scumclaim. People who know him well say that he did, like HF. People who don't, say that he didn't, like prplz.
Second, your point would be valid in a normal setup. You are telling us to lynch palmar to get reads off of it? In a game which whole cells are removed after a lynch? Really? In what world is that logical. Scum can bus whomever they want exactly because this is a cell removal setup. You have no solid reason to say what you just said.
Honestly gum, make some sense pls, talk to me. Target whomever you want but make valid points pls.
No, your totally wrong, we get more out of lynching for info in this setup, because 1: the person is going to die anyways, so we dont lose anything but the point when we kill them.
2: Your looking at it the wrong way bus wise, you think scum can bus any cell, its not like that, think of it as an election, say your scum team is rayn mdern palmer prplz slam
You CANNOT throw the cells your are likely to win (ie plamar and rayn) you want to work to make sure those cells pan out no matter what because the mdern and slam cells can very well fail (leaving prp as a swing vote. It's like an election, where each side feels they can win certain states, and only like 12 are in the balance. If you have palmar in a cell with coag and sent, there is no reason palmar should lose that match and scum should do as much as they can to make sure that doesnt happen, thereby leaving clear connections.
No no and no. This is wrong, period. You don't lynch anyone with the end game in mind in this setup, I think that's clear.
On April 05 2014 03:06 gumshoe wrote:
No, your totally wrong, we get more out of lynching for info in this setup, because 1: the person is going to die anyways, so we dont lose anything but the point when we kill them.
I'll push for a lynch on you when our time comes if you keep going with this logic. How can you not get that this is criminal? This is the post you wanted me to see and comment on? facepalm
Sigh. Steve I truly thought you were a better player than this ) : Scum know they can win certain cells over others. Thats not planning for an endgame because they literally dont know what the end game is (they cant be sure that theyll secure the order until they actually have) they merely know which cells to focus on.
And you are telling me that you do know which cells are gonna be won? I don't get it, are you scumclaming? lmao
Getmoript I read your post about me. All is fine until the awkward moment when you have to explain this
On April 05 2014 03:33 getmoript wrote: Overall, I think gum's town, I'm going to assume Rayn is town. Steve looks really odd and scummy so he hsould be lynch #2
How do I look scummier than gumshoe who's making mistakes and making stuff up all game long, before and after ryankoshi's thing. How do I look scummier than ryankoshi after the oath thing and the drunk thing.
On April 03 2014 01:17 Steveling wrote: Gum, when I started being active today first thing I did was filter you and raynkoshi. You can check my post on them, frankly I didn't find a single anti town thing. My view on them hasn't changed since then as well, their case on you was solid.
Anyway, we should get some heat from other cells as well, guys? Promote discussion pls.
This post really bugs me. Never in playing mafia have I ever found a filter with nothing I found bad in it. But what's even odder to me is the complete non-chalance before about Rayn/Gum. I think HF pinged me on this point earlier in the game and I remember it being odd, but in rereading it sticks out even more and more. Specifically, Steveling essentially made this huge case on Gumshoe where he ends up with a fence read. The thing that specifically bugs me is that in this setup, if I'm town and I have a super town read on someone else and a neutral read on the third person, then I'm going to read the fuck out of the third person to figure out what I'm missing and where I'm going wrong. It gets weirder:
On April 02 2014 20:51 Steveling wrote:
On April 02 2014 20:42 Holyflare wrote:
On April 02 2014 20:39 Steveling wrote: I read your thing against mderg, holyflare and tbh I'm not convinced. Also I'm waiting for you to answer palmar's questions about mdergs meta filter.
Everyone with soft posts and inactivity and fluff is scum candidate but you seem way too fixated on him for some reason.
Regardless, if you don't agree with what i said then what conclusions do you draw from the people that agreed with me when i said it? Are they then mafia for sheeping onto a town or what?
First, if I had to bet on it, I'd say he's town.
Now about the people that bus'd him
Tehpoofter and getript seemingly blindly jump on him. Definitely suspicious for me. Gumshoe's suspicion I think is kinda silly, why would mderg defend me like that out of the blue, it would be literally the worst mafia play ever. Balla doesn't really hard claim him as scum as the others, he's just saying that his filter is scammy/inactive/fluff. So, can't form an opinion on balla based on that. Raynkoshi made the connection between mderg and gum but and raynkoshi so far gets a town read in my book so there's that.
I like the joke there and laughed "I think he's town but about those people bussing him..." The weird thing here is that he again calls RaynKoshi town and calls Gum's suspicion silly. There's really too much of this to ignore.
On April 02 2014 23:55 Steveling wrote: Alright, I just had the time to properly read raynkoshi's case and gum's um, lack of debunking?
About the trap thing, raynkoshi's 1st point, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt gum. I explained earlier that I find that part of your game flawed but genuinely your style and mby town play. Same thing you did when we played together. You are still in the wrong but I'm passing it by.
The 2nd point they made is very very legit though. Rare are the cases where the town benefits if they lynch their own. That holds for a normal setup though, for this setup in which after each lynch a whole cell goes OUT of the game your "don't give a crap what you think about me" is inherently scum. I'm surprised you can't see it for yourself. I was willing to give you even more time to explain yourself right until that part.
Their 3rd point also stands and you still don't give a damn. You are not making it easy mate. You don't have my vote of confidence anymore.
On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote: Was watching champions league. Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow.
Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly?
On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote: Was watching champions league. Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow.
Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly?
Rayn watcha think?
I read bla bla bla can't tell if true or false because impossilble to know if he went to sleep or not.
I dunno, why should i think something? getmoript is mafia agreed or not?
On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote: Was watching champions league. Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow.
Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly?
Rayn watcha think?
I read bla bla bla can't tell if true or false because impossilble to know if he went to sleep or not.
I dunno, why should i think something? getmoript is mafia agreed or not?
~rayn
I'm just curios if you had thoughts on steve, or any history with him I should know of / :
Now here other stuff happens and both of me and gumshoe discuss other things. Later on i revisit the argument and it bothers me because it looks weird. I ask gumshoe this:
On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote: Was watching champions league. Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow.
Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly?
Rayn watcha think?
I am trying so hard to think about this post and what the fuck is the point of all this. gumshoe what's the point of all this?
On April 02 2014 06:22 gumshoe wrote: I'm just curios if you had thoughts on steve, or any history with him I should know of / :
I don't believe this. I don't believe this for one second.
On April 02 2014 08:43 raynpelikonoshi wrote: yes please.
~rayn
I was offering an olive branch to see your reaction. No I wasn't honestly going after Steve with so little, but you know I'm capable of weird arguments like that so If your scum you have to consider 2 things, if I'm genuine and if your better off tentatively agreeing with me or turning on me for that silly read.
Now read the red part and the green part. Both are gumshoe's answers. Both cannot possibly be true. Agreed? Yes, good. Now this leads us to the following:
gumshoe says he laid a trap on me and i did not take the bait. Okay, maybe this is true. However why this is scummy is because the trap and the conclusion from it happened before gumshoe makes his green explanation. If it was truly a trap gumshoe has his conclusion already. In this case he would post the red part instead of lying and posting the green part in the first place. There is absolutely no reason to lie about the motivation behind your argument when asked, especially when you have already gotten your conclusion!!
There is no town motivation for gumshoe to do what he did. This also leads me to: Point #2: gumshoe's contradicting stance regarding readability and what it means:
On April 02 2014 10:21 raynpelikonoshi wrote: So i went to see if Holyflare is hard to read for gumshoe. Turns out he had a pretty clear read on him in World Heavyweight mafia game (where he was town) half past D1. I also found this:
On March 28 2014 01:53 gumshoe wrote:
On March 28 2014 01:30 Holyflare wrote: because it is so wrong, not reading your pm enables you to be towny because you have no hesitation about finding your partner at that point because you don't know who he is so your entire reason for voting palmar is incredibly weird.....
not to mention he actually claimed scum, why haven't you commented on that instead?
Cause I'm not there yet : P and I disagree, bieng readable is a big part of bieng town, if you make your self unreadable you can't be trusted. I'm not going to argue with you about this because it's retarded to think otherwise.
However as me and gumshoe talk about being readable in this game his stance is this:
On April 02 2014 09:14 gumshoe wrote:
On April 02 2014 09:03 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
On April 02 2014 08:56 gumshoe wrote:
On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote: Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn
Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment.
So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
~rayn
"Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play.
Here i present you our first...... Confirmed scumscumscumscumscum!!!! ezpz
~rayn
Look at the post.
In the green part gumshoe, as town in the last game we played, claims his stance. He says "being readable is a big part of good town play. It's retarded to think otherwise."
In the red part gumshoe claims his stance in this game. You need to remember this has to do with the point #1 i presented. I have an argument that gumshoe is mafia because he is lying. I want to know why gumshoe is lying and if he has an explanation regarding why it makes sense to lie here as town. His stance is "why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? If you can't read me, that's not my fault."
Why this is scummy? Because town!gumshoe PROVABLY thinks the exact opposite he claims in this game. He only says what he does in this game because he lied and can't explain it in any other way. His explanation does not match with what town!gumshoe thinks. Noone can possibly have a contradicting stance on what is the optimal play for a townie regarding being readable or not when they are town, it's impossible, regardless of the game or situation! Point #3: gumshoe is dodging arguments and working against his own heuristics + :
I'll just make a list of these:
gumshoe refuses to answer my case on him and fearmongers something about "you can't read me scum because Steveling bla bla". That's didging an argument, Steveling not posting has nothing to do with if gumshoe is scum or not
As Balla already pointed out then gumshoe calls me mafia for this. In case gumshoe's logic as town was "you can't call me scum because the other dude has not posted" he can't based on his own logic call me mafia for that. The point is not if this is true or not, the point is if gumshoe thinks this is a good heuristic he can't possibly forget it when it comes to me. He is selectively choosing to apply his heuristics when they benefit him and forget's them when they don't.
gumshoe refuses to comment on my arguments on his case on me. Instead of telling people why i am wrong (i must be if i am scum and he has a good case on me right?) he only makes the same case again and hammers the same answered points over and over again. See my pretty picture. That's not how townies work.
Thank you for reading.
~rayn
So Steveling has town read on rayn; there's a lack of debunking of rayn's case by gumshoe; steveling likes rayn's case. How can this guy not just call gumshoe scumshoe here. I really don't get it. The thing that I find odd about this in particular is that if you read Gumshoe's post in context, then it's super easy to dismiss Rayn's point 2. Point 1 from Rayn's case is far more convincing and a better point imo (although I personally don't find any of Rayn's case convincing). Point 3 I can seen from a lot of directions. The important thing here is that Steve should just be hammer Scumshoe into the ground here and pushing for Group 1 first.
On April 03 2014 02:23 Steveling wrote: I'm trying to figure this out, because so far they have being very townish. But this is, well how should I put it, questionable?
Anyway, you can have your own opinion, illogical as it is. At least make a case against me so I can defend myself. X swore on his life so he's legit is not much of an argument. As I said earlier what everyone needs to do is defend themselves because a single lynch removes an entire cell from the game so I'll defend myself. Just try to find a proper reason if you can? Dunno, this play of yours is very bad.
And one last thing, ryankoshi, you didn't respond to that, what if I also swear I'm town?
I don't disagree with Steve here. Rayn's reason for flipping his read on gumshoe was weird/illogical/whatever. The odd response specifically is Steve's been super convinced that Gum is scum here; he's found gum's posting scummy, he's found rayn super town, he's liked rayn's case and thinks the points are scummy/damning. But the weird thing is that he's not hammering any of this shit home when gumshoe gets a freebie townread. I don't see why he's not just rehammering all of those arguments back into rayn if he reallys thinks Gum is scum.
Overall, I think gum's town, I'm going to assume Rayn is town. Steve looks really odd and scummy so he hsould be lynch #2
this whole post states reasons why steve is more likely town
You dont seem to think either me or Steve are scum so question!
I find it extremely hilarious that while sentinel was typing that post about gumshoe lying trying to manipulate situations, you did it again with this, lol
On April 03 2014 01:17 Steveling wrote: Gum, when I started being active today first thing I did was filter you and raynkoshi. You can check my post on them, frankly I didn't find a single anti town thing. My view on them hasn't changed since then as well, their case on you was solid.
Anyway, we should get some heat from other cells as well, guys? Promote discussion pls.
This post really bugs me. Never in playing mafia have I ever found a filter with nothing I found bad in it. But what's even odder to me is the complete non-chalance before about Rayn/Gum. I think HF pinged me on this point earlier in the game and I remember it being odd, but in rereading it sticks out even more and more. Specifically, Steveling essentially made this huge case on Gumshoe where he ends up with a fence read. The thing that specifically bugs me is that in this setup, if I'm town and I have a super town read on someone else and a neutral read on the third person, then I'm going to read the fuck out of the third person to figure out what I'm missing and where I'm going wrong. It gets weirder:
On April 02 2014 20:51 Steveling wrote:
On April 02 2014 20:42 Holyflare wrote:
On April 02 2014 20:39 Steveling wrote: I read your thing against mderg, holyflare and tbh I'm not convinced. Also I'm waiting for you to answer palmar's questions about mdergs meta filter.
Everyone with soft posts and inactivity and fluff is scum candidate but you seem way too fixated on him for some reason.
Regardless, if you don't agree with what i said then what conclusions do you draw from the people that agreed with me when i said it? Are they then mafia for sheeping onto a town or what?
First, if I had to bet on it, I'd say he's town.
Now about the people that bus'd him
Tehpoofter and getript seemingly blindly jump on him. Definitely suspicious for me. Gumshoe's suspicion I think is kinda silly, why would mderg defend me like that out of the blue, it would be literally the worst mafia play ever. Balla doesn't really hard claim him as scum as the others, he's just saying that his filter is scammy/inactive/fluff. So, can't form an opinion on balla based on that. Raynkoshi made the connection between mderg and gum but and raynkoshi so far gets a town read in my book so there's that.
I like the joke there and laughed "I think he's town but about those people bussing him..." The weird thing here is that he again calls RaynKoshi town and calls Gum's suspicion silly. There's really too much of this to ignore.
On April 02 2014 23:55 Steveling wrote: Alright, I just had the time to properly read raynkoshi's case and gum's um, lack of debunking?
About the trap thing, raynkoshi's 1st point, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt gum. I explained earlier that I find that part of your game flawed but genuinely your style and mby town play. Same thing you did when we played together. You are still in the wrong but I'm passing it by.
The 2nd point they made is very very legit though. Rare are the cases where the town benefits if they lynch their own. That holds for a normal setup though, for this setup in which after each lynch a whole cell goes OUT of the game your "don't give a crap what you think about me" is inherently scum. I'm surprised you can't see it for yourself. I was willing to give you even more time to explain yourself right until that part.
Their 3rd point also stands and you still don't give a damn. You are not making it easy mate. You don't have my vote of confidence anymore.
On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote: Was watching champions league. Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow.
Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly?
On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote: Was watching champions league. Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow.
Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly?
Rayn watcha think?
I read bla bla bla can't tell if true or false because impossilble to know if he went to sleep or not.
I dunno, why should i think something? getmoript is mafia agreed or not?
On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote: Was watching champions league. Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow.
Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly?
Rayn watcha think?
I read bla bla bla can't tell if true or false because impossilble to know if he went to sleep or not.
I dunno, why should i think something? getmoript is mafia agreed or not?
~rayn
I'm just curios if you had thoughts on steve, or any history with him I should know of / :
Now here other stuff happens and both of me and gumshoe discuss other things. Later on i revisit the argument and it bothers me because it looks weird. I ask gumshoe this:
On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote: Was watching champions league. Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow.
Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly?
Rayn watcha think?
I am trying so hard to think about this post and what the fuck is the point of all this. gumshoe what's the point of all this?
On April 02 2014 06:22 gumshoe wrote: I'm just curios if you had thoughts on steve, or any history with him I should know of / :
I don't believe this. I don't believe this for one second.
On April 02 2014 08:43 raynpelikonoshi wrote: yes please.
~rayn
I was offering an olive branch to see your reaction. No I wasn't honestly going after Steve with so little, but you know I'm capable of weird arguments like that so If your scum you have to consider 2 things, if I'm genuine and if your better off tentatively agreeing with me or turning on me for that silly read.
Now read the red part and the green part. Both are gumshoe's answers. Both cannot possibly be true. Agreed? Yes, good. Now this leads us to the following:
gumshoe says he laid a trap on me and i did not take the bait. Okay, maybe this is true. However why this is scummy is because the trap and the conclusion from it happened before gumshoe makes his green explanation. If it was truly a trap gumshoe has his conclusion already. In this case he would post the red part instead of lying and posting the green part in the first place. There is absolutely no reason to lie about the motivation behind your argument when asked, especially when you have already gotten your conclusion!!
There is no town motivation for gumshoe to do what he did. This also leads me to: Point #2: gumshoe's contradicting stance regarding readability and what it means:
On April 02 2014 10:21 raynpelikonoshi wrote: So i went to see if Holyflare is hard to read for gumshoe. Turns out he had a pretty clear read on him in World Heavyweight mafia game (where he was town) half past D1. I also found this:
On March 28 2014 01:53 gumshoe wrote:
On March 28 2014 01:30 Holyflare wrote: because it is so wrong, not reading your pm enables you to be towny because you have no hesitation about finding your partner at that point because you don't know who he is so your entire reason for voting palmar is incredibly weird.....
not to mention he actually claimed scum, why haven't you commented on that instead?
Cause I'm not there yet : P and I disagree, bieng readable is a big part of bieng town, if you make your self unreadable you can't be trusted. I'm not going to argue with you about this because it's retarded to think otherwise.
However as me and gumshoe talk about being readable in this game his stance is this:
On April 02 2014 09:14 gumshoe wrote:
On April 02 2014 09:03 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
On April 02 2014 08:56 gumshoe wrote:
On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote: Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn
Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment.
So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
~rayn
"Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play.
Here i present you our first...... Confirmed scumscumscumscumscum!!!! ezpz
~rayn
Look at the post.
In the green part gumshoe, as town in the last game we played, claims his stance. He says "being readable is a big part of good town play. It's retarded to think otherwise."
In the red part gumshoe claims his stance in this game. You need to remember this has to do with the point #1 i presented. I have an argument that gumshoe is mafia because he is lying. I want to know why gumshoe is lying and if he has an explanation regarding why it makes sense to lie here as town. His stance is "why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? If you can't read me, that's not my fault."
Why this is scummy? Because town!gumshoe PROVABLY thinks the exact opposite he claims in this game. He only says what he does in this game because he lied and can't explain it in any other way. His explanation does not match with what town!gumshoe thinks. Noone can possibly have a contradicting stance on what is the optimal play for a townie regarding being readable or not when they are town, it's impossible, regardless of the game or situation! Point #3: gumshoe is dodging arguments and working against his own heuristics + :
I'll just make a list of these:
gumshoe refuses to answer my case on him and fearmongers something about "you can't read me scum because Steveling bla bla". That's didging an argument, Steveling not posting has nothing to do with if gumshoe is scum or not
As Balla already pointed out then gumshoe calls me mafia for this. In case gumshoe's logic as town was "you can't call me scum because the other dude has not posted" he can't based on his own logic call me mafia for that. The point is not if this is true or not, the point is if gumshoe thinks this is a good heuristic he can't possibly forget it when it comes to me. He is selectively choosing to apply his heuristics when they benefit him and forget's them when they don't.
gumshoe refuses to comment on my arguments on his case on me. Instead of telling people why i am wrong (i must be if i am scum and he has a good case on me right?) he only makes the same case again and hammers the same answered points over and over again. See my pretty picture. That's not how townies work.
Thank you for reading.
~rayn
So Steveling has town read on rayn; there's a lack of debunking of rayn's case by gumshoe; steveling likes rayn's case. How can this guy not just call gumshoe scumshoe here. I really don't get it. The thing that I find odd about this in particular is that if you read Gumshoe's post in context, then it's super easy to dismiss Rayn's point 2. Point 1 from Rayn's case is far more convincing and a better point imo (although I personally don't find any of Rayn's case convincing). Point 3 I can seen from a lot of directions. The important thing here is that Steve should just be hammer Scumshoe into the ground here and pushing for Group 1 first.
On April 03 2014 02:23 Steveling wrote: I'm trying to figure this out, because so far they have being very townish. But this is, well how should I put it, questionable?
Anyway, you can have your own opinion, illogical as it is. At least make a case against me so I can defend myself. X swore on his life so he's legit is not much of an argument. As I said earlier what everyone needs to do is defend themselves because a single lynch removes an entire cell from the game so I'll defend myself. Just try to find a proper reason if you can? Dunno, this play of yours is very bad.
And one last thing, ryankoshi, you didn't respond to that, what if I also swear I'm town?
I don't disagree with Steve here. Rayn's reason for flipping his read on gumshoe was weird/illogical/whatever. The odd response specifically is Steve's been super convinced that Gum is scum here; he's found gum's posting scummy, he's found rayn super town, he's liked rayn's case and thinks the points are scummy/damning. But the weird thing is that he's not hammering any of this shit home when gumshoe gets a freebie townread. I don't see why he's not just rehammering all of those arguments back into rayn if he reallys thinks Gum is scum.
Overall, I think gum's town, I'm going to assume Rayn is town. Steve looks really odd and scummy so he hsould be lynch #2
this whole post states reasons why steve is more likely town
You dont seem to think either me or Steve are scum so question!
Anyway present a case with solid points first, not " OMG X SHOULD BE TOWN, SO Y IS SCUM, SO LETS MISSLYNCH TO GET INFO FOR THE LATEGAME " .
I agree on latest sentinel post. No matter how you see it, it's concrete stuff and while he was typing it gumshoe did exactly what sentinel described, lol.
On April 05 2014 05:16 getmoript wrote: Rayn was not town. Move on. I already told you all why he wasn't.
We should be focusing on why there are still a boatload of votes on Coag who clearly doesn't give a shit about this game and lacks the connections to actually be scum in this case.
~Cav
What the fuck is this. YOU GUYS JUST MADE A CASE SAYING STEVE WAS SCUM!!
I'm focusing on the fact that Coag is town right now, because I want to focus on today's lynches.
On April 05 2014 05:34 Steveling wrote: This is not the first few hours of the game gumshoe, you are not making me do your work. For all I know you may by waiting for an answer to grab onto.
Explain and if it makes sense, I'll listen.
If Rayn pmed Holy that I am scum,
Can you not get yourself modkilled tonight? Thanks.
No, let's vote palmar so if he's town after all we can win from there the rest of the game ez. That's your argument gum. If you had something to say I'd listen, I think I displayed that when raynkoshi were after you. But you only make stuff up and say scummy things.
On April 05 2014 05:47 Steveling wrote: Hi alakaslam. Have you read the latest pages and come to that conclusion or did you look inside your magic sphere?
Coagguss he (dis)agree with this Rayn in really scummy way
Don't matter if Rayn sum town or survive
You see this gumshoe? This is a person who just skimmed through some pages and he already talks more sense than you.
On April 05 2014 05:53 Steveling wrote: No, let's vote palmar so if he's town after all we can win from there the rest of the game ez. That's your argument gum. If you had something to say I'd listen, I think I displayed that when raynkoshi were after you. But you only make stuff up and say scummy things.
On April 05 2014 06:05 Steveling wrote: You seem to tread ryankoshi as confirmed scum or not however it fits you gum.
I like how an unflipped player's state of mind means that you are town and after this Pythagorean argument you end up unvoting on another cell.
But you thought of them as scum before and you even pushed for a no lynch in our cell, xDDDDDD.
I thought Rayn was scum for claiming. If Rayn is scum only his interactions with Palmar makes sense for scum on scum. If Rayn is town that argument doesn't matter. Call it as covinient as you like : D
He townclaimed after he scumclaimed. Yet again you pick what you like.
First of all it's impossible to not understand that rayn answered HF through this thread and not pm. You made that up.
Second it's impossible to not notice that he got modkilled for the language.
On April 04 2014 08:37 raynpelikonoshi wrote: i promise you all geript is mafia. i promise you all slam is mafia. i proise you all i am not mafia, geript can go fuck himself. Koshi quit the game because gumshoe, i wanted to quit too, because gumshoe, you are a fucking asshole. I want to shoot you in the face because you are a fucking dick. Artanis gave us a warning, he said "if language does no0t go down, you will be modkilled". Okay. Fair. But not fair. Fucking shit. IIt was gumshoe, not us, who was rude. 100%. Artanis take an eye on your hand and be a man. Fucking shit. FUCKING SHIT. read our QT man.
Fuck you, you are not fair. Koshi quit a game because of you, you are not fair.
On April 05 2014 20:59 Palmar wrote: I'll read it later geript, I don't have time now.
I hope most of us can be around tonight.
Do you find it at least a little ironic and funny that previously I was all "Rayn is scum" and everyone was all "Getmoript is moron or scum" and now lots of people have flipped and now I'm calling Rayn town and some of the people calling me scum think a Rayn is/was scum. Maybe I'm just tired and need sleep but I find it a little funny.
On April 05 2014 20:59 Palmar wrote: I'll read it later geript, I don't have time now.
I hope most of us can be around tonight.
Do you find it at least a little ironic and funny that previously I was all "Rayn is scum" and everyone was all "Getmoript is moron or scum" and now lots of people have flipped and now I'm calling Rayn town and some of the people calling me scum think a Rayn is/was scum. Maybe I'm just tired and need sleep but I find it a little funny.
I will explain it in one liners like I do towards my toddler nephew. You made an argument, the "lots of people" thing. I don't recall it being true thus asking you to prove it. To which you answer with
Yes gumshoe I was upset for something I thought was game breaking no matter my alignment. You are mad because people are on you for totally legit reasons, wrong/right? That remains to be seen but don't put your situation up with mine.
Getript I won't respond to you until you answer my question.
On April 05 2014 23:49 Steveling wrote: How did you not notice it, I say "getript" right there. I swear half of you people don't even read.
I noted it later on
Doesn't read
Accuses people of not reading.
You made a sizeable post without noticing it. Then I realise that since I was waiting getripts response I jumped the gun with your name. Then I tell you exactly that. Then you post like all of this never happened. >.<
On April 05 2014 23:49 Steveling wrote: How did you not notice it, I say "getript" right there. I swear half of you people don't even read.
I noted it later on
Doesn't read
Accuses people of not reading.
You made a sizeable post without noticing it. Then I realise that since I was waiting getripts response I jumped the gun with your name. Then I tell you exactly that. Then you post like all of this never happened. >.<
Why are you so blood thirsty? Do you refuse to concede a single point ever? The fact you feel the need to defend a dumb mistake that means nothing towards your alignment should be a red alarm man o-o you are just trying to win, not trying to see if it's the right battle your fighting. Chill out, take a step back man. Why couldn't rayn have been scum?
Because of your posts yesterday? If you read me you will see that I still wasn't sure about ryan until yesterday night.
On April 05 2014 23:41 Steveling wrote: I will explain it in one liners like I do towards my toddler nephew. You made an argument, the "lots of people" thing. I don't recall it being true thus asking you to prove it. To which you answer with
On April 05 2014 23:34 gumshoe wrote:
On April 05 2014 23:08 Steveling wrote: No that's that not an answer. You said
lots of people
, explain.
If you are not bothered to play the game and read you should do something else with your time.
The burden is on the prosecution to provide evidence, you have yet to make a case on me
Getript, why are you so defensive, that's the 2nd time you assume I'm scumclaiming you. What's wrong?
If I'm wrong about it I'm wrong and it doesn't matter. If I'm right about it, I'm right about it and it doesn't matter.
How convenient, so I take it you will inform us of which of your points matter and which don't I guess. Right.
On April 06 2014 00:06 gumshoe wrote: Btw Geript rayn was heavily intoxicated when he did what he did, and he quit catastrophe as well in the same manner, so it doesn't have anything to do neccecairely with alignment, he did what he did because he had no inhibition. For the most part it's hard to take anything away from his post, but there is one thing not a soul has mentioned, one undeniable fact. Anyone guess what it was?
On April 06 2014 00:06 gumshoe wrote: Btw Geript rayn was heavily intoxicated when he did what he did, and he quit catastrophe as well in the same manner, so it doesn't have anything to do neccecairely with alignment, he did what he did because he had no inhibition. For the most part it's hard to take anything away from his post, but there is one thing not a soul has mentioned, one undeniable fact. Anyone guess what it was?
I'll explain why you're wrong when I get home.
He asked a question, how is he wrong.
He thinks I'm wring about rayn ) : but I'm not, because you have no scum motive to push me like this, our lynch is unpredictable it could go either way, why throw yourself into that spot if your cellie wants to a no lynch? I don't think your THAT arrogant Steve, therefore rayn has to be scum.
Honestly, I don't take getript srsly. They had crap posts early game. Now for reasons unknown he made a 180.
If he's scum he's very lucky to have ceph in his cell because it makes more sense to lynch him I think.
On April 05 2014 22:50 getmoript wrote: 1. Why is that interesting to you?
2. What's your basis for this claim(re: gum scum claiming)?
3. Why shouldn't I sheep Town Hero Rayn in his read that I scum claimed on day 1?
And since you asked this twice.
1.Because you defend yourself from a simple question I made without hinting at all that you are scum.
2.Read the thread pls.
3.Where's this coming from, I don't remember.
Steve can I ask a favour? If someone asks you to rehash something, quote or rehash it, and please stop bieng hostile, it makes interactions difficult.
When did that happen?
Oh do you mean the 2nd question he made? Anyone who read the thread knows that, all day yesterday we talked about it. It's his job to keep up. If it was something simple I'd provide it, np.
On April 06 2014 00:06 gumshoe wrote: Btw Geript rayn was heavily intoxicated when he did what he did, and he quit catastrophe as well in the same manner, so it doesn't have anything to do neccecairely with alignment, he did what he did because he had no inhibition. For the most part it's hard to take anything away from his post, but there is one thing not a soul has mentioned, one undeniable fact. Anyone guess what it was?
I'll explain why you're wrong when I get home.
He asked a question, how is he wrong.
He thinks I'm wring about rayn ) : but I'm not, because you have no scum motive to push me like this, our lynch is unpredictable it could go either way, why throw yourself into that spot if your cellie wants to a no lynch? I don't think your THAT arrogant Steve, therefore rayn has to be scum.
GET OUT OF MY HEAD GUMSHOE!!!!!!!!!!
You realise him and you arrived at 2 completely different conclusions?
Gee, getript, we have a lynching coming up, your cell is next in line and here you are urging people to vote me on day3. You even slept on it as you say. Damn.
Alright gum, I read it very carefully. Because that thought about koshi messing with the cell order and then ryan being mad about it is actually legit.
But... this is just your fantasy.
This is what your argument boils down into
On April 06 2014 03:50 gumshoe wrote: Lets assume your scum Rayn, if your plan was to take out these three groups first and avoid holy and palmar all together, would that plot not be utterly ruined?
If it comes down to it, with the way you played this game, I'll take HF's and Palmar's word over yours. Because that's what you are saying, you are asking for a vote of confidence in your hypothesis. You haven't earned it, sorry.
I'm not blindly sheeping people. Or rather, I may sheep if I find their filters towny.
HF is green for me and Palmar is the least scummier in his cell. That's according to my own opinion on them. You on the other hand are scummy. Raynkoshi as I said made sense except 2 instances, the oath and the modkill. I considered them as scum after that but your play is so scummy that you turned me over again, lol.
On April 06 2014 04:38 Steveling wrote: Alright gum, I read it very carefully. Because that thought about koshi messing with the cell order and then ryan being mad about it is actually legit.
But... this is just your fantasy.
This is what your argument boils down into
On April 06 2014 03:50 gumshoe wrote: Lets assume your scum Rayn, if your plan was to take out these three groups first and avoid holy and palmar all together, would that plot not be utterly ruined?
If it comes down to it, with the way you played this game, I'll take HF's and Palmar's word over yours. Because that's what you are saying, you are asking for a vote of confidence in your hypothesis. You haven't earned it, sorry.
Also if we're both town, then my argument is effectively true ( because rayns scum
On April 06 2014 05:21 Steveling wrote: Why are you taking it to personal level?
I was the only one to stand up for you in the early game and you totally let me down. Your game is scummy, period.
I am completely taking this personally, you are calling my game scummier than someone who got drunk and scum claimed... And who switched onto you at a dime. Wtf
Don't make up stuff again, see, this is why you are scummy.
It's very clear that I immediately turned against ryankoshi, I scumclaimed them and made a case against them. You alone, managed to turn my opinion with your posting after these incidents. HF and Palmar's opinion weighted some but I still wasn't sure until yesterday.
So, don't say that I didn't suspect them cause that's a lie.
On April 06 2014 05:21 Steveling wrote: Why are you taking it to personal level?
I was the only one to stand up for you in the early game and you totally let me down. Your game is scummy, period.
I am completely taking this personally, you are calling my game scummier than someone who got drunk and scum claimed... And who switched onto you at a dime. Wtf
Don't make up stuff again, see, this is why you are scummy.
It's very clear that I immediately turned against ryankoshi, I scumclaimed them and made a case against them. You alone, managed to turn my opinion with your posting after these incidents. HF and Palmar's opinion weighted some but I still wasn't sure until yesterday.
So, don't say that I didn't suspect them cause that's a lie.
EXACTLY I did things that could only result in people finding me scummy. I did them because I thought I could find scum that way T-T what's my motive? Shits and giggles?
You literally just said that you did scummy things, while knowing they are scummy to bait other scum. wtf
Damn it. Sentinel you came at the weirdest possible moment and already made a slip. I hate to admit that HF was right even though he didn't provide a reason at all but I have to.
On April 06 2014 06:57 Steveling wrote: Coag, you are saying that your reads haven't changed at all during these last few hours? Can we treat your reads after your cell is gone as permanent?
No, they're going to vanish into the ether and be lost to time and space.
~Cav
I mean if he hasn't changed opinion about anything. I think a towny that's about to be ML'd sees many things unnoticed to other townies. Pls coag..! Help town!
Coag lost by 1 vote right? But we all thought that sentinel was gonna get lynched because we thought my vote on him was legit. Turns out it was exactly on 00:00 so it wasn't.
AND HERE'S THE THING, SENTINEL VOTED ON HIMSELF BECAUSE HE WAS MAD FROM GETTING BUS'D!!!! AND HE DID THAT BEFORE MY VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO WAY A SCUM WOULD DO THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SO IF HES NOT SCUM AND COAG IS NOT SCUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But actually this is a blessing in disguise. Think about it, if my vote was literally 1 freaking minute earlier we would be still in the mist. We would think that coag was the scum if not sentinel and we would be taking Palmar's reads to heart!! Lady luck is with us boys!
Why did sentinel provide reads if he was gonna get lynched? Why did he come back only at the last hour so suspiciously to defend himself only to vote himself if he's scum? Why didn't he tried to ninja swap his vote after my vote with only a 1 vote difference, it still was 00:00, at least I didn't know that votes counts until 23:59.
On April 06 2014 09:42 Steveling wrote: Why did sentinel provide reads if he was gonna get lynched? Why did he come back only at the last hour so suspiciously to defend himself only to vote himself if he's scum? Why didn't he tried to ninja swap his vote after my vote with only a 1 vote difference, it still was 00:00, at least I didn't know that votes counts until 23:59.
Why would he ever vote himself if he's town????????????
Because he was mad? I almost ragequitted the game because I was mad. People are saying that rayn ragequitted a previous game because he got mad. Everyone gets mad and if you are town you feel even more mad in my experience.
On April 06 2014 09:14 Steveling wrote: HOLY CRAP I REALISED SOMETHING UPON READING THIS
Coag lost by 1 vote right? But we all thought that sentinel was gonna get lynched because we thought my vote on him was legit. Turns out it was exactly on 00:00 so it wasn't.
AND HERE'S THE THING, SENTINEL VOTED ON HIMSELF BECAUSE HE WAS MAD FROM GETTING BUS'D!!!! AND HE DID THAT BEFORE MY VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO WAY A SCUM WOULD DO THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SO IF HES NOT SCUM AND COAG IS NOT SCUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On April 06 2014 10:01 Steveling wrote: getript did you even read that
On April 06 2014 09:14 Steveling wrote: HOLY CRAP I REALISED SOMETHING UPON READING THIS
Coag lost by 1 vote right? But we all thought that sentinel was gonna get lynched because we thought my vote on him was legit. Turns out it was exactly on 00:00 so it wasn't.
AND HERE'S THE THING, SENTINEL VOTED ON HIMSELF BECAUSE HE WAS MAD FROM GETTING BUS'D!!!! AND HE DID THAT BEFORE MY VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO WAY A SCUM WOULD DO THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SO IF HES NOT SCUM AND COAG IS NOT SCUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OMG PALMAR
How do you explain his play as scum?
wifom
Dude this comes from simple and straight forward facts, what wifom. Try to explain his scummy play, you called him scum not me, you explain why and how.
Wait a minute there, I'm not sure I remember correctly but didn't coag start the sentinel wagon? Then HF jumped on it quickly and then Palmar and then the rest of the herd followed.
On April 06 2014 10:13 Steveling wrote: Wait a minute there, I'm not sure I remember correctly but didn't coag start the sentinel wagon? Then HF jumped on it quickly and then Palmar and then the rest of the herd followed.
Are you making stuff up?
G was the one making a case on Sentinel.
Unless you actually want to believe that everyone took Coag's word at face value and just kinda had the entire game flip for no particular reason. The Cavborg has been trying to get people off of Coag almost the entire time.
~Cav
What, are you kidding me? Man it's so obvious you are not reading the thread I want to punch my screen.
Me and gumshoe both asked HF why he changed vote without providing a reason. He obviously took coag's word at face value. Then Palmar said " fuck it lets vote sentinel ", so literally he took HF's word on face value.
Also if you read palmar's filter this is the first time he gets frilly with his sheeping. Like I don't think he ever sheeped before in this game. And then suddenly he's like "yeah lets vote sentinel why not" 50mins before the deadline.
On April 06 2014 10:30 prplhz wrote: Yes. I also think this final voteswitch was to create chaos. But it ended up with him suddenly appearing very scum to the entire thread.
NONONONOONNONONON
IM USING CAPS AND YOU STILL DONT READ IT IT WAS ALL LUCK THAT THIS HAPPENED IF MY VOTE LITERALLY WAS 1 MINUTE EARLIER WE WOULD HAVE LYNCHED SENTINEL INSTEAD OF COAG
On April 06 2014 10:30 prplhz wrote: Yes. I also think this final voteswitch was to create chaos. But it ended up with him suddenly appearing very scum to the entire thread.
NONONONOONNONONON
IM USING CAPS AND YOU STILL DONT READ IT IT WAS ALL LUCK THAT THIS HAPPENED IF MY VOTE LITERALLY WAS 1 MINUTE EARLIER WE WOULD HAVE LYNCHED SENTINEL INSTEAD OF COAG
Yes.
And since they were both town Palmar didn't give a fuck and only did it to create chaos. He didn't predict that it would exonerate both [UoN]Sentinel AND Coagulation which was pretty bad for him.
It doesn't matter why he did what he did.
HE KNEW THEY WERE TOWN, NOT US. If we had lynched sentinel instead of coag this discussion about palmar wouldn't have taken place.
On April 06 2014 10:41 prplhz wrote: Well, honestly the next lynch is pretty straight forward. I will look through some filters tomorrow but it's mostly a decision of:
Do I think it's the guy who posts a lot of crap without being insane?
or
Do I think it's the guy who doesn't post anything beyond the bare minimum?
On April 06 2014 10:13 Steveling wrote: Wait a minute there, I'm not sure I remember correctly but didn't coag start the sentinel wagon? Then HF jumped on it quickly and then Palmar and then the rest of the herd followed.
Are you making stuff up?
G was the one making a case on Sentinel.
Unless you actually want to believe that everyone took Coag's word at face value and just kinda had the entire game flip for no particular reason. The Cavborg has been trying to get people off of Coag almost the entire time.
~Cav
What, are you kidding me? Man it's so obvious you are not reading the thread I want to punch my screen.
Me and gumshoe both asked HF why he changed vote without providing a reason. He obviously took coag's word at face value. Then Palmar said " fuck it lets vote sentinel ", so literally he took HF's word on face value.
I'm going to reread and make sure this is what happened, we'll talk more at a different time.
As for right now, I'm about to go off and do something else for a while. So before I address prp and his wall-of-text, I'd like to ask him one more simple question:
Which one of us in this cell is scum, and why?
Prp, because rayn, palmer, mderg and balla
are all fine with lynching anyone in your cell but him.
Rayn: I'll go through everything with Koshi tomorrow. I think we have a lot of shit on the table already as we are only 24h into the game. geript i try to explain my read on prplhz for the last time and if you are town you gotta stop this shit and start paying attention.
Until tomorrow i'm off.
Palmar:
prplhz is town. No arguing, I'm better than anyone on TL at reading him. geript is probably town, he has, or for the most part Cav, has said some strange things, but geript also looks really mafia when he's mafia, so I'm just relying on the fact I always know he's mafia day 1 when he is to tell me he hast to be town. So ceph is mafia.
Mderg: In general his posts feel like he wants town to get as much information and reads as possible. What I also like is that he doesn´t think the circumstances of rayns modkill can be indicative of rayns alignment. I mean, he was drunk and got modkilled in a similar way in catastrophe.
(would just like to not how fucking scummy the bolded is given what we pretty much know)
Why didn't you ask prplhz about it instead of just going ham on it right away?
To me it seems pretty obvious what prplhz was saying and I think he WAS taking a stance. But even so, how does him adding the "maybe" qualifier make him scum (why does not taking a stance make him scum)? Townies are unsure all the time, even about setup talk.
You're arguing 2 things here from what I can tell
1) Prplhz is scum because he's not taking a stance 2) Prplhz is scum because mayor DOES matter
and I disagree with both of them.
On this list are effectively two guranteed scum, from hard to soft, the defense of prplz unify the scum team : D he is a beacon of scumminess they can rally around.
Right I forgot about the connection between them. I also don't like how he's still unsure about ryan.
So, all 3 cases open for tomorrow. Let's sleep it off and try in the morning.
Alright guys, ceph confirmed town, lmao. Srsly HF, your reads so far have being so wrong. Like, you thought rayn was town, then you became buddies with Palmar who's also scum it turns out.
But, ceph is pulling a sentinel right now. After we know what happened last night I would expect him to be up and running today from the first morning light if he was scum. But he isn't and I don't want to MY another player for inactivity.
I agree on you about prpl but gumshoe made a nice post about him yesterday.
Getript using the hydra mechanis to their advantage is scummy as well.
My advice is to wait some time. We don't want to MY again. It's their group after all, I'm pretty sure we are gonna find out many things analysing their upcoming posts.
So, prplz. There are associative reads and then there are "associative reads".
Like, if you find your family sized icecream you bought in the morning eaten after you come back from work, it's safe to assume your fat ass family ate it already. That's an associative read.
Ofc, you can assume that George R.R Martin sneaked inside your fridge and gorged himself on it. That's an "associative read".
I believe his post to belong in the first category.
Alas, poor prplz, I knew him.... dude was a scummer / :
LOL.
Also I don't like it how you jumped on gumshoe the other day. Like I did too but he's my cellmate, we are supposed to look after our cells. You jumped on poor gumshoe before even the first lynch happened and our cell is 3rd in line.
And speaking about easy targets your vote right now is on ceph.
Prplz and getript have in common to not realise what happened yesterday at lynch time. One of them is bad town and the other a scum which found a scapegoat.
I think getript is the bad town because that's what how he played all game long and prplz which made some good posts but now is ignoring simple logic, is the scum.
Then we have ceph who's gone missing.
I'm gonna give a placeholder ##vote: prplhz until I see more posts from ceph and understand what's going on with him.
Thoughts gumshoe, HF, any other dudes that are active?
Can you explain why does it matter? If you asked me to post thoughts on other cells I would have already but you are asking for the scum team? Explain?
Well, after what happened during the lynch I obviously find palmar and ryankoshi scum. About your cell I posted earlier. Cell 4 slam makes much sense lately, I don't like how balla is afk after a very active start. LSB seems neutral from what I remember. Cell 2 is the hardest for me I think, HF had some good posts, then some bad posts and then yesterday he sheeped scum. But then so did all of us. Mderg has some good posts but he seems to come and go as he likes, really weird. Tehpoofter hasn't really given me towny vibes.
On April 07 2014 05:25 Steveling wrote: Um, really dubious question.
Can you explain why does it matter? If you asked me to post thoughts on other cells I would have already but you are asking for the scum team? Explain?
Your reads matter because they do. Not entirely sure why you don't think they matter or why you are so hesitant. I guess I'll just rephrase the question:
Well, I suspect you as scum, you may want to see who I paint red but you obviously know who is what, so you could make points about the people that aren't. This is why I found it strange that you specifically asked for the scum team.
Getript are playing downright bad all game long. Funnily enough this is their only redeeming quality, this consistency in being bad.
Prplz on the other hand, suddenly during the lynching is jumping between sentinel-coag with no apparent reason. Also he doesn't understand how what happened proves that palmar is scum.
Tbf, with all that being said and the theories and what not if ceph does not appear and contribute he's the best lynch for today. But then again that's what coag was as well.
I'm afraid this will go again down to the last vote and we need to decide if we are voting for the inactive guy or the other two. Let's take it step by step.
So, those of you reading now, ceph or getript/prplz?
On April 08 2014 03:37 Steveling wrote: I'm afraid this will go again down to the last vote and we need to decide if we are voting for the inactive guy or the other two. Let's take it step by step.
So, those of you reading now, ceph or getript/prplz?
How can you even consider Geript is mafia? He is hard defending Prplz... what does he care? Geript can you not see how scummy this guy is?
I put those 2 in the same block because it's clearly a decision about the strategy we vote with. Do we vote for the inactive guy with little actual content or not? That's why.
And I did it because we saw what happened with coag.
On April 08 2014 03:57 Steveling wrote: Btw I happened to see poofter's game in 2 other games. He's now playing actively in 3 games, so yeah. Who does that....
On April 08 2014 05:03 Steveling wrote: Yes let's jump on the crazy train along with getript who doesn't understand that palmar was scum.
I'm still undecided but I really want to vote getript since I don't think he's retarded irl.
He has alot of faith in his reads, hes just really stubborn but hes not scum. I can link you examples if you like.
He's useless if he's town then. If both prplz and ceph make more sense than him I think I'll vote him. Would be the most legit lynch since he's not making sense at any point in the game.
On April 08 2014 05:15 Holyflare wrote: cephiro has information on palmar being scum and information after palmars lynch that he shouldn't have because he hasn't been here and if he was he could have posted about it
On April 08 2014 05:15 Holyflare wrote: cephiro has information on palmar being scum and information after palmars lynch that he shouldn't have because he hasn't been here and if he was he could have posted about it
lynch cephiro with fire
He had enough time to catch up on most things, if he did just read this day.
That's true, we don't know when he started reading up.
On April 08 2014 05:35 Holyflare wrote: are you kidding me? he wouldn't care because you are pushing a lynch onto prpl and all ceph had to do was afk, votes are all on ceph > prpl so he's forced to return and defend
If by all you mean 1 vote differential then yes you are right. Why are you making stuff up again? Damn it, whenever it's lynch time confusing things happen.
On April 08 2014 06:27 getmoript wrote: So steve and mderg claimed scum.
Scum love to push/vote for me for bad reasons /out
Why are you doing this, you know perfectly well, both of you that, you played an abysmal game if you are town. Like coag's ML, he has only himself to blame, that's how bad he played.
On April 08 2014 07:33 Steveling wrote: Um, where is gumshoe, I need my victory song.
You should never gloat when you were obvious scum and there was a town who was playing so badly that they were considering lynching him of you. Like I said, I'd still have been voting for you; not just for the association between Sent and you (which was incorrect) but because you were scummy. You shouldn't be proud of anything because you got carried.
)))))))))))))))) Read the scum qt to see who carried whom. Don't be mad because I called you bad earlier.
On April 08 2014 07:59 Palmar wrote: Also prome is right btw, with rayn and koshi out I could've manipulated this game for a long time given the strong town position I was in, except of course this damn scumshoe making me mafia by association with a townie
My favorite quote from scum qt
On April 08 2014 07:59 Steveling wrote: That gumshoe is always the most scummy player when he's town, lmao.
EPT
have openly attacked mderg.
