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On March 27 2014 06:22 OnceKing wrote:
whoa. Now there's an interesting vote count, but what's more interesting to me is the people who haven't voted yet.
Valenius - you haven't casted a vote yet. Why are you not voting for Cavalinho?
Robik - you've been one of the most vocal players today and yet you haven't put your name down anywhere. If you were to choose someone by yourself to get lynched right now, who would it be?
LT cause I don't like him and i still don't trust you as far as I can spit (which is part of the reason I put out that statement about not liking how many people were pushing on Cavalinho). Like, I don't know what type of hardon Eden has for you but all I see is you asking questions and giving no opinions of your own.
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On March 27 2014 06:55 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
The neutral read was from before he did his reads, and after he posted his reads, I didn't change my read because the reads really wasn't anything new.
can you english
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On March 27 2014 22:39 RolandJarvis wrote:
There were some posts saying... hey that's too many votes on Cavalinho! nobody is defending Cavalinho! ...therefore Cavalinho is probably town.
I strongly, strongly disagree with this logic.
Another contrast with his previous game is Cavalinho had defenders on day 1 of the previous game and has no defenders this game. theDragoon (a mafia) had a strong town read on Cavalinho. When a town is wagoned it's so hard for at least one mafia to resist defending them. They get credibility from being right that they can spend later.
"Don't catch a falling knife"
I want you to imagine you are a mafia this game and Cavalinho is your partner. Eden and Roland are gunning for Cavalinho. They make substantial cases. They have lots of people calling them town. Cavalinho has a good chance of being lynched. You are going to defend Cavalinho? Really? Like say you think his posts make him town? I don't believe that*.
If you are mafia and Cavalinho is your partner you can't defend him. Certainly not when he was the only wagon.
* Not that it's physically impossible for that to happen, just that it's very improbable and the assumption of the posts I'm arguing against is that mafia would most likely defend their partner when he's a runaway day 1 wagon.
I feel like I may be to blame for the quick push away from Cavalinho as I inserted that seed of doubt regarding the quick formation of that wagon and the lack of opposition to it. I think that the trio of Cavalinho, LT and OK contain both mafia, although OKs post are growing on me as the game has progressed (specifically his last post where he outlines why he thinks Valenius is mafia -- a sentiment I disagree with).
Also, everyone calling for me to vote. Chill out. We still have 8hrs in the day. I'm not sure what me voting now versus later will achieve. As long as we are lynching between Cav and LT, I'm happy throwing my vote down on either one of them by the end of the day. Let's just make sure that AT LEAST one of them is a wagon for today.
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So, I don't remember discussing pixalated at all, so I decided I'm gonna read his filter.
This makes me think that pixalated will be bringing up how he perceives people would play based off of the previous newbie game. Will keep reading his filter and see if he brings any of this up:
On March 25 2014 15:58 Pixalated wrote:
Sup guys, first game here.
I did read through a couple of games though (including the previous newbie which some of you played in!) so I should (hopefully) know what I'm doing haha
Pixalated makes a reasonable point here, but he doesn't really take a stance on OK. He's very wishy washy with his "conclusion":
On March 26 2014 13:02 Pixalated wrote:
I don't see any problem with onceking talking about policy. The thread before he came in was all empty and fluff with people talking about hearthstone and whatnot. He pushed the conversation to something that has some relevance to the game. Sure, talking about policy is a good way for scum to 'contribute' without actually doing much, but it's still better than talking about hearthstone.
I guess I can see how Pixalated would perceive Valenius's post this way, but as I explained, it had to do with the way that he approached OK's lynch all lurkers sentiments. Maybe I was just tunnely regarding OK earlier which was what made me think that this post was towny. But Valenius makes a long post later which I found town, so I'm cool with him anyway:
On March 26 2014 13:08 Pixalated wrote:
I also don't see why you think Val is town just because he asked onceking to clarify his shit. It was a pretty useless question, it's easy to understand what onceking wanted to achieve with that post - create the atmosphere that no one can lurk and has to post.
But instead all he does is make a rather long post asking about potential situations blabla... When I think that it's pretty clear - if we have a solid read we lynch it, if not we lynch a lurker. Seems like he's trying to be helpful without actually being helpful.
I like that he takes a stance on me here. It's perfectly fine for him to not like me, especially if he thinks that OK is leading town in the right direction...having said that, it's kinda weird too, because he said earlier that it's easy to look like you're contributing without actually contributing if you're talkinga bout policy...so maybe he doesn't exactly agree with OK? idk:
On March 26 2014 13:47 Pixalated wrote:
I don't like how he cleared both sqrt and val. Already explained why I don't feel that Val's questions make him town, and sqrt posting random stuff doesn't mean much.
What this means about his alignment I'm not sure. Could be mafia trying to get cred by claiming that people are townie and having 'right' reads when they flip.
Pixalated definitely taking stances on people. If LT is mafia, pixalated is almost certainly town for this post:
On March 26 2014 20:23 Pixalated wrote:
Hey Tolkien, how is Val 'super town in my eyes, he's cleared for me.' He has posted like one post that isn't fluff, and you clear him based off just that? Is that because everyone here is reading him as town for some reason? (I don't see why but okay)
I agree with Eden's post about him. Furthermore from what I remember from reading his previous game (the one he mentioned) he was ALOT more active as compared to this. I will go take a peek at his filter there in abit.
@Tolkien Why am I neutral/slightly scummy? Elaborate please.
Cavalinho doesn't look too good as well.
This is really weird for me. Pixalated casually mentions a scum read on Cavalinho a couple posts earlier, but his main focus is LT. He then makes another 2 posts that have somethign to do with LT and then boom, he votes for Cavalinho, sheeping Eden:
On March 26 2014 20:41 Pixalated wrote:By the way ##Vote: CavalinhoI agree with Eden's post here + Show Spoiler +OK town, so Cavalinho is either terrible at reading comprehension or trying to distort what I'm saying. Let's review.
Again it's not that he said OnceKing's start was weird, it's that he didn't do anything to figure out why it was weird or tell us how it was weird. He asked OK why OK made a post about policy lynching lurkers, OK said it was to get the town out of RVS. That's not weird. Cavalinho didn't bother to respond to him and then kept repeating himself about how weird it was. No explanation as to why or how that's weird, no attempt to develop OK's response, nothing.
His questions didn't have any apparent direction or purpose to them. He asked OK why OK made the post, OK gave a good answer aaaand... Cavalinho drops it like a hot potato. No follow up? Nothing? Why are we supposed to be convinced that OK is weird or scum or whatever when you're just asking questions to ask them and not developing any insights from them? He asserts that he was asking questions because he didn't understand what was going on, but you'll notice that he doesn't acknowledge OK's answer at all. Instead he starts playing reactively, answering OK's questions and then dropping the line of discussion. That's not what people do when they're trying to understand what's going on. He vaguely talks around the issue right before I prodded him, saying that he thinks OK's start was still weird, but that he "[doesn't] have any real reason to think [OK] is mafia" because of his "last accusatory post" (what post is this?) and he "seems townie, getting information and generally being one of those obvious town players" (this doesn't actually say anything about why he doesn't think OK is mafia; we know that he wouldn't think that because he thinks OK seems town, why does he?)
I also happen to think his OMGUS vote is him trying to look innocent because he's aware of his meta (not the post beforehand he noted that Robik townread him in a previous game because he OMGUS'd then), but that can go either way. What's telling is that he fails to develop his vote, he just puts it down and insists it'll be me or him today. That's dumb and not what a town player should be doing.
Cavalinho is my best read for mafia right now. and I think it sums up very nicely.
So, I think he's letting LT off the hook really quickly here. Nothing that LT said has really answered Pixalated's questions, and if it has, it's as if Pixalated just takes his word for it at face value. I retract my earlier statement that they can't be mafia together.
On March 26 2014 21:53 Pixalated wrote:
Still prefer a Cav lynch.
I can see what LT means by me posting that on sqrt can constitute as a null read. In fact it matches since his next line is how my points were similar to those already in the thread, and my original point was indeed something that wasn't exactly fresh (Onceking said the same thing) whilst sqrt being a little suspicious (what I said later) wasn't mentioned by anyone else if I recall correctly.
The trap thing is still really bad though, and I agree its really suspicious on how fast he revealed it with only me and you pushing him for it so far. Still it sort of makes sense as town to cut his losses on a bad decision, since I believe it would probably have flowed into cav and sqrt simply ignoring his question, and they wouldn't sheep someone under fire. Still a really bad trap of course, but I can sort of see this as really bad town play. I like your point about the time gap between the 'bait' and 'trap' though, and I think thats my biggest gripe with the entire trap thing.
I think he agured the point that I brought up about the contradiction I pointed out pretty well, makes sense.
Cav on the other hand hasn't done much to redeem himself, and I would like to see more from him. (specifically a GOOD explanation on why he found OK's initial post weird)
I expect him to follow up on this. Will see if he does (same goes for bringing up the previous newbie game, which I haven't seen him do yet)
On March 27 2014 01:19 Pixalated wrote:
I need to sleep so ill be going off.
I want to see val and sqrt post more. It has been 18 hours and they haven't done anything of note. Val promised to post something earlier, so I expect to see something when I wake up.
I guess it's a bit hypocritical of me to bring this up, but from everything Pixalated is writing it seems that LT is his biggest scum read (his personal biggest scum read, not the one he sheeped off of Eden), but he refuses to vote him:
On March 27 2014 09:37 Pixalated wrote:Show nested quote +- The slip in the followup post. I never said anything about whether this is the right or wrong day. Looks to me like lies are piling up on top of lies here. Why are you dodging answering this? Context: this is point 5 of eden's agurement. Here's your answer to it: Show nested quote +5) You just made a case about my second post being 20 minutes following up my first post. sqrt had 3 and 1/2 hours since VALENIUS posted his question to OK, and 15 minutes to Robik's WTF to OK's post, and had time to make a joke post referencing Robik joking about never being mafia on TL. Perhaps it's just me, but I really dislike that.
Conclusions: Pixalated might be scum here. He kinda takes stances on people, but he keeps flipping back and forth. It seems throughout the day that LT is his biggest scum read, but he ends up just sheeping Eden regarding Cav. He keeps pressuring LT but never ends up voting him.
Another thing that he does, is make statements like "valeniusa nd sqrt need to post more" and "i read the previous game, but he does nothing with those. He doesn't pressure valenius or sqrt to post more, he doesn't call them out for it again, even though they posted a bit after I guess. But like, I'd expect something along the lines of "hey, so and so posted more, and I guess I like what he's said so I'm gonna lean town on him" or something like that, but he doesn't do it. He also doesn't make inferences from the previous game, which I'd assume he's make if he read it. This makes me think that at times he's just posting for the sake of posting.
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On March 28 2014 01:37 Eden1892 wrote:
Hey Robik, tell me why you haven't voted yet and one significant point of discussion regarding your top two suspects (Cavalinho, Lord Tolkien) that you feel you contributed to the day.
I was planning on hammering the shit out of whoever I thought was more mafia at the end of the day if the wagons were close because I trust me to have the hammer than anyone else.
As for what I've brought to the table with Cava and LT...well...that doesn't really matter. I actually don't know if I've brought up any new content regarding them, I'd have to reread my posts. What I do know is that I have a pretty large town circle, and I'm happy lynching outside of it, and those two are DEFINITELY outside of it.
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On March 28 2014 01:49 Cavalinho wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2014 01:44 IAmRobik wrote:On March 28 2014 01:37 Eden1892 wrote:
Hey Robik, tell me why you haven't voted yet and one significant point of discussion regarding your top two suspects (Cavalinho, Lord Tolkien) that you feel you contributed to the day. I was planning on hammering the shit out of whoever I thought was more mafia at the end of the day if the wagons were close because I trust me to have the hammer than anyone else. As for what I've brought to the table with Cava and LT...well...that doesn't really matter. I actually don't know if I've brought up any new content regarding them, I'd have to reread my posts. What I do know is that I have a pretty large town circle, and I'm happy lynching outside of it, and those two are DEFINITELY outside of it. And I'm outside of your town circle because...?
1) You were very reluctant to answer my questions early in the thread. I wanted you to take a stance and you were unwilling to do so.
2) While it's flattering to have someone just agree with me nonstop, I think that you could have been just sheeping the shit out of me. You know that people are going to follow me and thus if OK is town, it's easy for you to just hop on early cause i'm pretty much confirmed GOAT.
3) After I said the thing about there being a lot of votes on you, there was a really really quick and dramatic shift away from you and it was almost as unnerving to me as the original amount of people who DID vote on you.
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On March 28 2014 01:52 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Here's what I think is really strange. I haven't been posting much, I haven't been acting towny, and yet Robik and Eden have a town read on me. Eden says it's because his scumreads have been after me, but Robik's town read on me is because of early game joke posts. That's strange. I consider people who don't think I'm scum pretty scummy right now.
I'm always willing to reevaluate, but when I give out my town reads, I don't give them out willy nilly and I will stand by them as long as I can.
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EBWOP:
In Foundations, I gave a town read on ggtemplar for saying "the killing has become the killed." Templar started looking super scummy and I forgot about that statement he made and I was coming around to the idea he could be scum and then all of a sudden, I remembered that I cleared him for the one small phrase that probably doesn't mean anything to anyone else, but to me, that was something that mafia just doesn't have it in them to say, so I offered to cut off my pinky toe if he was mafia....we didn't lynch him that day, even though the vote was close...game ended...he was town.
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On March 28 2014 02:09 sqrtofneg1 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2014 02:08 IAmRobik wrote:On March 28 2014 01:52 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Here's what I think is really strange. I haven't been posting much, I haven't been acting towny, and yet Robik and Eden have a town read on me. Eden says it's because his scumreads have been after me, but Robik's town read on me is because of early game joke posts. That's strange. I consider people who don't think I'm scum pretty scummy right now. I'm always willing to reevaluate, but when I give out my town reads, I don't give them out willy nilly and I will stand by them as long as I can. Reevaluate me now, plz.
This is stupid. I'm not going to go out of my way to call someone scummy if I think they are town.
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On March 28 2014 02:04 IAmRobik wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2014 01:49 Cavalinho wrote:On March 28 2014 01:44 IAmRobik wrote:On March 28 2014 01:37 Eden1892 wrote:
Hey Robik, tell me why you haven't voted yet and one significant point of discussion regarding your top two suspects (Cavalinho, Lord Tolkien) that you feel you contributed to the day. I was planning on hammering the shit out of whoever I thought was more mafia at the end of the day if the wagons were close because I trust me to have the hammer than anyone else. As for what I've brought to the table with Cava and LT...well...that doesn't really matter. I actually don't know if I've brought up any new content regarding them, I'd have to reread my posts. What I do know is that I have a pretty large town circle, and I'm happy lynching outside of it, and those two are DEFINITELY outside of it. And I'm outside of your town circle because...? 1) You were very reluctant to answer my questions early in the thread. I wanted you to take a stance and you were unwilling to do so. 2) While it's flattering to have someone just agree with me nonstop, I think that you could have been just sheeping the shit out of me. You know that people are going to follow me and thus if OK is town, it's easy for you to just hop on early cause i'm pretty much confirmed GOAT. 3) After I said the thing about there being a lot of votes on you, there was a really really quick and dramatic shift away from you and it was almost as unnerving to me as the original amount of people who DID vote on you.
Hopefully this answers some of your questions. I'll try to answer the rest. You seem to be missing A LOT of things that are happening. Maybe you wanna hold off on this convo until you're back home from class? Cause repeating myself isn't really productive.
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On March 28 2014 02:34 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2014 23:01 IAmRobik wrote:
I think that the trio of Cavalinho, LT and OK contain both mafia, although OKs post are growing on me as the game has progressed (specifically his last post where he outlines why he thinks Valenius is mafia -- a sentiment I disagree with).
As long as we are lynching between Cav and LT, I'm happy throwing my vote down on either one of them by the end of the day. Let's just make sure that AT LEAST one of them is a wagon for today. Okay, so obviously this is outdated since you have Pixalated as one scum. Let's assume you drop OnceKing from the list here (you seem to be softening on him). Now you've got one of Cavalinho or Lord Tolkien as the other scum. But! Earlier you said: Show nested quote +On March 27 2014 00:53 IAmRobik wrote:
The number of people suspicious of (myself included), and voting for, cavalinho is a bit unnerving. I do agree that he's been the scummiest, but I've yet to see someone defend him (other than maybe LT). IDK. I'm getting the heebie jeebies from this. 1) Do you think Cavalinho is town or scum? 2) If you think Cavalinho is scum, what do you make of the fact that no one was contesting his lynch? 3) If you think Cavalinho is town, then according to your first quote from above, you should think the scum team is Lord Tolkien and Pixalated. If so: (a) How do you rationalize the fact that Pixalated had the correct reaction to Lord Tolkien's trap and subsequent pressure on LT? (b) Why are you by yourself on an outlier when your other scum read is one vote behind your town read?
Sigh. I'm such a fucking pushover.
1) scum
2) after i said something about that, there was a HUGE push against him. I think I might have set a trigger for everyone to abandon ship.
3) assuming that cava is town:
a) while pixalated's reaction was good -- I myself had the same reaction -- he still ended up following you onto Cava and he has since backtracked off of LT
b) I assure you that I will make my vote count. I do think that pixalated is scummy based off of the case that I posted earlier. If people want to follow me on him, that would be fucking great cause he's my best scum read at the moment. If people disagree and it comes down to two others, I will make the proper adjustment in my vote. I don't see why I need to squash a mafia read on someone just because there are two other wagons with 4+ hours left in the day. My goal is to lynch mafia. I didn't remember anything pixalated did this game, so I went back and read his filter and drew the conclusion that he was mafia from it. Thus my vote.
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On March 28 2014 02:40 Eden1892 wrote:
No, that actually doesn't answer my questions at all.
Actually it did answer questions 1 and 2, but you clearly are focused on class and not this game, or you just don't give a fuck about reading what I wrote.
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On March 28 2014 02:40 Eden1892 wrote:
No, that actually doesn't answer my questions at all.
I guess this is what it feels like to be Cavalinho in a discussion with you.
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On March 28 2014 02:51 Eden1892 wrote:
That was a better series of answers than I expected.
Followup: Why would Pixalated follow me onto his scum partner?
Also, side question, this one is less pressing but it's sticking out so I figure I'll ask anyway. Why are you so pushy with other people but so soft with me? You almost seem scared of me. Not really GOAT behavior imo.
I don't know. Maybe they're not partners together. Maybe it's LT and Pixalated. Maybe it's Cava and LT. I'm not sure what the right answer is to the scum pairing. I definitely can see disconnects with certain people not being mafia together, but I don't want to bring that up yet because it's still d1 and making those types of assessments this early is dangerous.
I don't think I'm really pushy with anyone. If you think I'm aggressive towards certain people it's because I want to put pressure on them. I don't think I need to put any pressure on you. I think you are town and I think you're playing well.
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On March 28 2014 02:52 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2014 02:44 IAmRobik wrote:On March 28 2014 02:40 Eden1892 wrote:
No, that actually doesn't answer my questions at all. Actually it did answer questions 1 and 2, but you clearly are focused on class and not this game, or you just don't give a fuck about reading what I wrote. No, I just wanted hard answers, not soft ones. Yes, I could imply reasonably well what your positions on 1) and 2) were from that sequence. No, I'm not going to do your homework for you.
IT WAS THE FUCKING PREVIOUS PAGE. I am not forcing you to go through hundreds of posts of research. I had legitimately JUST answered how I felt about cava and two of the questions you asked were getting me to reiterate myself. How am I supposed to feel?
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People can be independently scummy.
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meh....i'll concede that cava is more likely to be scum, but something is throwing me off about the way pixalated is playing the game and he is portraying a lot of scum tells. The whole situation with pixalated and LT makes me really really uneasy.
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On March 28 2014 03:06 Eden1892 wrote:
Additionally, do I have this right as far as your reads go to this point?
scum: Cavalinho, Pixalated
maybe scum: Lord Tolkien
town: all else
I know OnceKing might be off-base; you were fine with me moving him to your town pile in my questions but that might have been for sake of discussion. I think the rest is correct based off of reading your filter.
Yeah...I'm on the fence leaning scummy with OK. There have been +s for him, moreso of late, but there were a lot of minuses as well.
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You're missing nothing besides that gut instinct that's screaming at me that Pixalated is maf.
Also, I hate how quiet the thread got all of a sudden. What happened?
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EPT
