EPT[I][T][M] Vengeful Mini Mafia!
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This seems obvious to me but it is pretty important On February 04 2014 11:09 marvellosity wrote: The absolute best thing for mafia in this sort of game is to have townies riled up and wanting to take vengeful shots. Ironically. Mafia have much less space to hide in if people are rational and aren't self-hammering just so they can shoot the person that can piss them off. Anyone should be able to see that that is absolutely the best thing for mafia. Worst thing for mafia = everyone being rational so they can't take funky shots if they're lynched under the guise of emotion or having a laugh. Maybe Artanis is town and he's not going to bow to the will of the people, but if he's in danger of being lynched, it should be clear how and why his top suspect is, and we can go off that. There isn't a LYLO in this game. Even if it is 3v2 and we mislynch, the player has the chance to kill a mafia and keep the game going. The only way the mafia can win is to stir up emotions in the town. In fact this is why I don't think we should have people say who they would shoot. This paints a big target on their back for the mafia as "Should we push this guy" or "Should we take the pressure off of him". After all to the mafia there is no difference between lynching a mafia, and lynching a town who would shoot mafia. | ||
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I just made a few notes on some people who are important I guess + Show Spoiler [DP] + DP WoS seem too buddy buddy to me. DP is really defensive Dp is really mad, seems a little overblown and fake to me. Then again he may just be Mad + Show Spoiler [WoS] + Seems too interested in making friends. Pops a push on DP out of nowhere, keep in mind DP is probably going to death shot HFI also don't like how he is trying to tie DP/HF together Otherwise he talks about artanis which is one of the strangest cases off of spam I have ever seen ##Vote: WoS + Show Spoiler [HF] + Just stirring up things (Which is bad). IE what he did as town in Titanic | ||
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Artanis is quite capable of taking the game seriously and acting like one of the most townie player in the game as scum. I would be more concerned if he was an active townie than the lurker that he is right now | ||
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On February 05 2014 05:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: Uhh.. You need to ealborate more on this because i don't think this is true. I'm basing this off of Titanic II and Insane Mafia II (only games I recall with both me and him in it), where he was one of the biggest analyst / 'town voice'. | ||
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On February 05 2014 05:43 Holyflare wrote: what the actual fuck man? I think your meta read of him is off. After looking back at some of Artanis's previous games he can take things for fun even if he is town. However I don't want to dismiss the fact that he might be mafia considering he just claimed mafia as mafia. As for an actual read, he hasn't posted anything substantial yet so I will classify him as a lurker. | ||
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On February 05 2014 05:55 Promethelax wrote: Lsb any chance you can sit down and give comprehensive reads on art/Rayn/ceph/HF those are the players I am most interested in lynching right now and I would like your thoughts on them. You are replacing into a generally townie slot but it is early enough I the game that I still have some concerns about you (unfairly all of these concerns are because Imp replaced out). Please walk me through your reads on these four players. Ceph has two posts, both of which say he may or may not post later. He is a lurker. Artanis- Talked about above. He has been lurking hard compared to what he usually does. HF- Last game I was in with him was Titanic and he was basically doing the same thing. Stirring up things and trying to generate activity. Rayn- seems too overconfident to be scum. I haven't seen him play as scum though so I don't know if this is normal. I'm cool with a lurker lynch on day 1, though I'd rather go with WoS | ||
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On February 05 2014 05:59 marvellosity wrote: Artanis isn't a lurker. If he hasn't posted by the end of the day (as in, the 24 hour day today) he's given up as mafia. If he does post, he is probably still mafia but we can reassess. He hasn't said anything substantial that's why I'm classifying him as a lurker. | ||
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On February 05 2014 06:10 Promethelax wrote: For a scum Rayn look at ## mafia I can't help but notice none of those are conclusions. Why wave? Because he has been playing a little to much "lets get on people's good sides" to me. This post stands out to me On February 05 2014 01:56 WaveofShadow wrote: Maybe because you weren't in that game you don't REALLY know, but I am way more aggressive (see Artanis vote/push) in this game compared to Shadow and I believe I stand out more as well. And the reverse about emotion----I was way more emotional in Shadow game than this one as well. I can't tell whether I should expect you to realize that or not...meh. And considering this is his pushpost On February 04 2014 09:23 WaveofShadow wrote: This sort of gives the same idea I'm trying to get across but not quite. Essentially it comes down to there being absolutely no reason to claim scum as town, even to joke---seems much more likely to me to come from a mafia standpoint to introduce WIFOM into the thread at best, shit things up a little at worst and somewhere in the middle they get to brag if they win. And before anyone asks again, yes I am completely serious. I'm gettin' them feels. This is super early and there hasn't been much in thread to give me other feels right now so it's what I'm going with atm. ##Unvote ##Vote: Artanis I don't see him trying to be aggressive, more of a fake attempt to stand out, but at the same time not get on anyone's bad side. Also, especially in this format I am very worried about tying two people together especially if they seem to think the other is mafia, and he has been doing that with DP/HF | ||
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On February 05 2014 06:09 marvellosity wrote: Go check out ## mafia played a couple months back and come back to me on that one On February 05 2014 06:10 Promethelax wrote: For a scum Rayn look at ## mafia I can't help but notice none of those are conclusions. Why wave? I can't seem to find the game you are talking about. Could you link it to me? Also I'll probably be gone for the next few hours | ||
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On February 05 2014 06:24 marvellosity wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=432504&user=raynpelikoneet From my brief overview of that game I just see him hardcore tunnel and derive most of his confidence that way (at least in the early game). | ||
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On February 05 2014 10:12 marvellosity wrote: We don't yolo until 48 hours are up, give or take. Everyone should have more time. There are day limits? I don't think there is any in the OP And no I don't want a 100 hour day 1 | ||
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On February 06 2014 00:25 Promethelax wrote: Hey, if we all quit playing can this be the fabled happily ever after game? That's the LSB omega plan. Everyone refuses to vote (or reach majority) thus no one gets lynch. If hosts threaten to shorten the day to something like 2 weeks we just go "loloolol mafia haz no night kills, they can't do anything". Everyone lives happily ever after | ||
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On February 05 2014 23:58 Promethelax wrote: We should be lynching a townie every day. That is better play than lynching a scum. If we lynch a townie that townie gets to shoot into the scummy players list which we have drawn up as a town thus eliminating tow suspects, themselves and the other player. If we lynch a scum he can shoot whomever he feels is most dangerous to scum. I am happy to be the townie lynched because 1) I will shoot scum and 2) you guys are not fun to play with This is probably the scummiest idea I have ever seen. There is only one way for scum to win. That is to have two days where we lynch a townie and the townie shoots another townie. Whoever is most dangerous to scum is just an assumption that can easily be abused, night kills can be used for more than eliminating good townies It is always better for town to lynch scum (or at least our best bet) because in that case we don't have to gamble that the townie would be able to shoot a mafia. Simply lynching town every day is a great way to hand scum a gambled victory ##unovte ##vote: Promethelax I don't really understand why you are volunteering to be lynched, however if you truely are town and shoot a mafia I will congratulate you. Above all I don't understand why people are suggesting that we shoot instead of lynch people. Yes flips are nice, but are they really that important? There is always so much busing and fake arguments going on in mafia, associations are rarely alignment indicative. | ||
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On February 06 2014 02:52 Promethelax wrote: Because there will be two deaths per day, one unflipped and one flipped. Better have the unflipped one be a townie and the flipped one be scum. We're never going to get two scum deaths (obviously since no scum will shoot scum) so it is better to have the one scum death be flipped. That proves the alignments of both players and gives town a bigger advantage than the flipped player being town because a townie could suck their way into shooting a townie easily while the only people who will shoot scum are town. ???? Please explain the bolded part. Have I not made it clear that town shooting town is the only way how scum will win? And why do I care about the alignments of dead players? This is what I am incredibly concerned about. If you haven't noticed, this isn't your normal mafia game. Scum does not win by simply getting town lynched. Scum wins by having a townie shoot another townie. This is why I am incredibly concerned about WoS trying to tie players together. This is also why I am concerned about Marv trying to make sure that rayn gets shot at night instead of simply lynching him. And this is also why I think you are mafia. | ||
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On February 06 2014 03:04 Promethelax wrote: Every day there will be at least one townie death. If we are sure that someone is scum. Artanis for instance. It is better to lynch a borderline player, one who many people suspect, and have them shoot Artanis. That way we ensure that we eliminate two suspects from the suspect pool and, hopefully, get a red flip to inform our future choices. I don't understand why you are repeating yourself in hopes of a different response by me. | ||
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On February 06 2014 03:36 Promethelax wrote: So Ceph/LSB if you would do me the kindness of looking into the DP/rayn dichotomy I would be very pleased. I happen to agree with Ceph that no more than one of them can be scum and I have obviously drawn my own conclusions on that. You should be able to post reads on those two players at least to some degree. Uhh... I thought I explained why expressing people in an dichotomy and trying to make them at odds with each other is incredibly anti-town. The fact that you are encouraging people to do this add more points to my scumdar | ||
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Though preferably I'd want to lynch WoS | ||
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On February 07 2014 06:28 Holyflare wrote: the only information we have is that artanis is scum, LSB's stance on artanis is ridiculously back and forth and it doesn't make sense Since when do flips tell you anything about people alignments? | ||
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On February 07 2014 06:38 marvellosity wrote: meh. I'm going to come up with a plan of action that people who think I'm mafia and town alike will go along with. Shall do so later. Dunno, it seems pretty clear to me that you are town. | ||
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On February 07 2014 06:41 Holyflare wrote: kind of really want to shoot wave right now All aboard the wagon!! ##Vote WaveofShadow | ||
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On February 07 2014 06:43 marvellosity wrote: If you're town, could you please stop playing like this? My current idea is to reach a lylo situation with someone who I know is town and then I offer to get lynched or something, ez game. That's why I don't want you to get lynched and would rather go after other targets. Unfortunately this whole "I'm gonna suicide thing" is pretty counterproductive. | ||
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On February 07 2014 06:46 Holyflare wrote: even if it's 2 unconfirmed town and 1 scum at the end it's still a 50% chance shot if you get lynched and by then it should be obvious End game scenarios I'm first going to assume that people won't withhold their shot. LSB omega plan 2 involves witholdment of shots to break the game and force a draw. 3 Players- Unconfirmed Townie, Confirmed Townie, Scum. Unconfirmed Townie votes self and then shoots Scum. Town win 5 Players- 3 Unconfirmed Townies, Confirmed Townie, 1 Scum Unconfirmed Townie votes self and shoots someone other than confirmed townie. This moves on to the 3 player lylo situation. Town win 5 Players- 2 Unconfirmed Townies, Confirmed Townie, 2 Scum Just play mafia I guess, though an unconfirmed townie could gamble if they think they know scum in an effort to keep confirmed townie alive. If they suicide and shoot scum this moves onto the 3 player lylo situation | ||
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On February 07 2014 06:51 marvellosity wrote: if people are sure enough i am town to want to keep me around as sure town to lylo, they should be sure enough to go with my read and shoot rayn as well. If we have more people who think you are confirmed town also I am willing to sacrifice myself to shoot rayn if that will keep you alive. As long as we arrive near endgame with a confirmed town it should be and easy win. Or who knows, after the game ends everyone is gonna be like "WTF Marv was mafia? How?" | ||
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On February 07 2014 07:57 Cephiro wrote: Yush Wave, just got that far in the thread. At the moment it would probably be Holy (pushing me for out-of-game reasons too, wut?), or LSB (lots of stuff that doesn't make enough sense). Like what on earth are these "confirmed" townies he speaks of? All his possible endgame scenarios include one. That alone is scummy as hell, pointing out several possible endgame options yet leaving out the more likely ones. He also speaks of suiciding being counterproductive. In my opinion there is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't always aim to lynch a townie. ??? What are you talking about? I covered all possible scenarios that could occur starting tomorrow. What other end game scenarios could occur? Lynch = No flip. Shot person = Flip. Scum will never shoot their own buddy in this setup. Thus if the scum is lynched, we won't be able to know and just see town dying and go into possible panic due to misreading the situation as the worst possible scenario. Why is scum getting lynched a bad thing? If we lynch you and you shoot Marv, you flip yourself as mafia. If you shoot someone who is on the possible scum list, we get rid of two borderline players. Either way a scum dies and that is good for the town. | ||
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This is incredibly different from Marv/HF who are both asking people to lynch them so they can pull the trigger themselves. Unless they are bluffing (which applies more to HF than Marv) mafia should never offer themselves as a sacrifice. | ||
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On February 07 2014 08:28 Cephiro wrote: Because scum will never shoot scum. If you lynch scum that shoots a townie, you can't be sure if that player is actually scum, or if it's a townie taking revenge/trying to be a hero/whatever other possibilities there are. Let's go with the assumption that you lynch me and I shoot marv. I know I'm town. Let's assume marv is town also. Just because I shoot him, even if most players consider him to be town, does not make me scum. I can see why you're trying to implicate that, but you have to understand that is not necessarily the case as townies have been known to go rogue and make their own decisions at times. My point is, why would you leave it up to guessing when you can take the sure way out? Unfortunately I am finding it harder and harder to believe you are thinking about the setup from a townie perspective. Town objective- Kill three mafia Mafia objective- Have a townie lynch another townie two times. As a townie, all I care about is if a mafia is dead or not. Whether or not the mafia is flipped doesn't really matter to me. Artanis flipped red but really, who cares? He was probably the most obvious day 1 bus target you can get. Connections are not alignment indicative. By lynching scummy players I have multiple chances to hit a scum in a cycle. I can either get them killed at the lynch, or if I am wrong, the player may be able to redeem himself by shooting a scum. If I lynch a scum, then we have accomplished what we need to do. If I am 'sure' that someone is scum I should lynch him, because even if I am wrong, we still have a chance that a scum will die. If I lynched a townie and he hits my target and flips green, well I just killed two townies As a mafia I try to orchestrate a situation in which we can have a townie lynch another townie. And this is exactly what you are doing. You are trying to get a townie to offer themselves as a sacrifice to kill me (which I know is a townie) | ||
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On February 07 2014 07:57 Cephiro wrote: I'd like LSB to be shot right now. The lynched person is a little harder to decide as I'd prefer to be sure that player is town. But on the other hand I don't want my strongest townreads to get killed either. Rayn & DP I want to keep around for now, same with you. So it comes down to lynching marv or holy. On February 07 2014 08:36 Cephiro wrote: 1) I have merely pointed out my suspicions on you and referred to you as my preferred lynch target since I was asked of that specific question. 2) If you are scum, there is no reason for scum to shoot you. I am not in need of tempting another townie to get to shoot you, I am just fine doing it myself. I figure it would be best to talk cooperatively among town who they want to keep around for lategame to ensure the best possibilities of winning. As you might have noticed, I am in no rush to make decisions about who to lynch or who to shoot this cycle, neither was I during last cycle. This is also a reason why I'm sad that Prome was the one to take the shot, since I would have preferred him to stay alive later in the game, and had an more unsure read take the shot. @Wave: It's suboptimal play. Why guess if we can have facts? Certainly it might not even become a deciding factor of any sorts, but why take the risk? Why not go for the guaranteed information? In the first post you say I am scum and you are willing to trade a townie (that is not yourself) for me. In the second post you say you are unsure whether or not I am scum and you are willing to trade yourself for me. If you combine these two post together we have someone who wants to trade a townie for a player that he has 'suspicions on' and not entirely sure ##unvote ##Vote Cephiro | ||
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I'll do your dirty work for you marv ##unvote ##Vote LSB | ||
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If I were mafia and both you and rayn were town, I would be like support your plan and would have lynched you by now so you can shoot rayn. Boom, two townies dead. EZ Day 2. Since you aren't lynched yet, I can only assume that mafia don't want to see you go | ||
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On February 07 2014 09:24 marvellosity wrote: you know, in a funny way, this does in fact make sense. Lynch me instead, if Rayn flips red that basically confirms Marv as town, follow the endgame scenario detailed below On February 07 2014 06:56 LSB wrote: 3 Players- Unconfirmed Townie, Confirmed Townie, Scum. Unconfirmed Townie votes self and then shoots Scum. Town win 5 Players- 3 Unconfirmed Townies, Confirmed Townie, 1 Scum Unconfirmed Townie votes self and shoots someone other than confirmed townie. This moves on to the 3 player lylo situation. Town win GGWP Town victory | ||
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Marv you want Rayn dead right? I will shoot him. So lynch me | ||
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On February 07 2014 09:27 LSB wrote: Lynch me instead, if Rayn flips red that basically confirms Marv as town, follow the endgame scenario detailed below GGWP Town victory If Rayn is red, we can safely gamble that Marv is town. Day 3 3 Town 1 Marv 1 Mafia A Townies says "Lets follow LSB's plan" and votes himself. The townie then shoots anyone else but marv. If the town his mafia, game over. If the town hits town we move onto Day 4 1 Town 1 Marv 1 Mafia A townie says "Lets follow LSB's plan" and votes himself. The townie then shoots the guy who isn't marv. If marv is mafia we pat him on the back and say GGWP | ||
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![[image loading]](http://www.topdreamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/i-want-a-kiss-please-.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://amolife.com/image/images/stories/Animals/animals_in_love_1.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://m5.paperblog.com/i/22/220731/beauty-the-beasts-15-animals-who-love-flowers-L-W8RrIj.jpeg) | ||
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On February 07 2014 09:52 marvellosity wrote: LSB would you lynch me? I would if people are convinced that I am town if Rayn flips red. Thus LSB plan would work. The main reason why I don't want to lynch you is that I want to reach a situation where we have a confirmed townie at lylo | ||
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##unvote ##vote: marvellosity | ||
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On February 07 2014 09:37 LSB wrote: All I ask is if rayn flips red follow this post. If Rayn is red, we can safely gamble that Marv is town. Day 3 3 Town 1 Marv 1 Mafia A Townies says "Lets follow LSB's plan" and votes himself. The townie then shoots anyone else but marv. If the town his mafia, game over. If the town hits town we move onto Day 4 1 Town 1 Marv 1 Mafia A townie says "Lets follow LSB's plan" and votes himself. The townie then shoots the guy who isn't marv. If marv is mafia we pat him on the back and say GGWP | ||
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LSB's suicide assistance service ![[image loading]](http://www.wesleyjsmith.com/blog/uploaded_images/drdeath-787083.bmp) I am formally announcing the opening of LSB's suicide assistance center. If you have a problem with someone (who is not me) and would like to take the matter in your own hands, I will happily assist you in your endeavor. Simply vote for yourself and I will help you along your journey to a town victory. | ||
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On February 07 2014 09:37 LSB wrote: All I ask is if rayn flips red follow this post. If Rayn is red, we can safely gamble that Marv is town. Day 3 3 Town 1 Marv 1 Mafia A Townies says "Lets follow LSB's plan" and votes himself. The townie then shoots anyone else but marv. If the town his mafia, game over. If the town hits town we move onto Day 4 1 Town 1 Marv 1 Mafia A townie says "Lets follow LSB's plan" and votes himself. The townie then shoots the guy who isn't marv. If marv is mafia we pat him on the back and say GGWP We have arrived at an endgame situation and I will do my best to convince you that I am town. 1) The whole Day 2 Debacle. In the day 2 debacle I pushed you guys to lynch me so I could get Rayn. Imagine how stupid would that be if I was mafia. If I shot rayn, there would be 0 mafia members remaining, and thus I would lose. If I don't shoot rayn and instead I shot a townie, I would cast heavy suspicion on rayn and just commit suicide for no apparent reason. But LSB, you ask, what if it was a bus and you were insane and risked being hammer just so you can appear townie? That is a huge risk just so I can bus my partner. Theoretically if DP was mafia it would make sense, but just from a simple headcount it would be impossible for both me and DP to be mafia. 2) Dead townies want you to believe I am confirmed town On February 07 2014 09:55 marvellosity wrote: you will be confirmed town when rayn flips red. Because I will be confirmed town and I vouch for you 100%. let's do it. ##unvote ##vote: marvellosity On February 07 2014 09:56 marvellosity wrote: LSB is by far the towniest dude in the thread. On February 05 2014 13:21 Promethelax wrote: Iamperfection: seemed really townie. He niggled in ways I liked during early game. I'm sad he replaced out since he was making sense and generally read as town. Lsb: has clearly thought about the set up from a town perspective. This gels with both my past experience with town lsb (PYPLOL) and my read of imp as town. Promethelax and Marvellosity have sacrificed themselves for the town to arrive at this conclusion. We need to make sure their deaths are not in vane. If you are convinced that I am town what we need to do to win is have you vote yourself, and then shoot the other player. | ||
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On February 07 2014 11:25 DarthPunk wrote: The only reason marv agreed with your plan was because you said you would shoot rayn. You didn't ACTUALLY shoot rayn, you quick hammered fucking holy flare for no reason and now the magical way to win the game is for you to 'not die' Let's step back and pretend I am mafia on day 2, and take a second to consider what happens if I lynch myself. I can't shoot rayn, since he is mafia and then we would lose. So I have to shoot someone else. Even though I promised I would shoot rayn. So essentially I am committing suicide to cast more suspicion on my scumbuddy, which is basically impossible. | ||
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#YOLOSWAG | ||
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##YOLOSWAG | ||
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On February 07 2014 11:45 DarthPunk wrote: gg's I was scum. That game was painful and weird. Good job LSB. Wayyyy to town favored. Only town can commit suicide and that just confirms too much people | ||
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On February 07 2014 11:48 DarthPunk wrote: Nope. Him self voting along with the rayn thing would have made him super confirmed town. At that point all town needs to do is to not kill LSB. Ceph would have understood that and shot me if he got lynched and If I got lynched I would have died. I took a 50/50 shot hoping that LSB would follow marv and promes reads of me being like totes town. Scum can't self vote at lylo and win whilst town can so self voting was a really good play. DarthPunk either was incredibly stupid since he didn't think I was confirmed town. Or he was mafia. After titanic, I took the bet that DarthPunk was smart | ||
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On February 07 2014 11:50 Hapahauli wrote: Wait. Why can't mafia self-vote in LYLO? You get hammered and lose instantly? Unless you get really ballsy. | ||
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