EPTTeam Liquid's Mafia board looks legit. I'd like to get my feet wet.
I've got plenty of experience playing Mafia, but I've never played the forum version of it. Let's see how this shakes out. Also, is there anyone coaching the scum side? >.>
Newbie Mini Mafia LII
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Cavalinho
United States946 Posts
Team Liquid's Mafia board looks legit. I'd like to get my feet wet. I've got plenty of experience playing Mafia, but I've never played the forum version of it. Let's see how this shakes out. Also, is there anyone coaching the scum side? >.> | ||
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Cavalinho
United States946 Posts
On February 09 2014 10:38 Promethelax wrote: There will be someone, coaches are not yet finalized but we have always had someone step forward to coach in the past and someone will do so in this game. Wonderful. I'm not used to forum games so I really hope this pans out. | ||
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Cavalinho
United States946 Posts
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Cavalinho
United States946 Posts
On February 10 2014 15:24 Beneather wrote: Yeah it's taking a while for this game to start, is this normal? Or is it just cause it's a newbie game. I might just shove my head into the fire and play a regular game instead. >.> | ||
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Cavalinho
United States946 Posts
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Cavalinho
United States946 Posts
On February 16 2014 12:57 IAmRobik wrote: dying ehh? Let the dying begin ##vote cavalinho Lets take this outside, I don't even care. Hold my earrings. ##vote IAmRobik | ||
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Cavalinho
United States946 Posts
On February 16 2014 13:09 IAmRobik wrote: okok, you're town. I rescind. ##unvote cavalinho That was...A rather poor reaction to what was obviously a joke vote. | ||
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Cavalinho
United States946 Posts
On February 16 2014 13:49 IAmRobik wrote: huh? I cleared you as town for your response. Oh, so I'm clear now. Cool. Hey guys, I'm clear. | ||
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Cavalinho
United States946 Posts
##unvote IAmRobik ##VOTE Amiko | ||
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Cavalinho
United States946 Posts
On February 17 2014 05:34 Amiko wrote: I think this early the only information we have is on ourselves - votes change too much to mean anything unless you give some kind of reasons for your actions. So I am glad to explain why I may vote for people (being idle) or the only town read I had at the time (Lord Tolkein asking about innocent child). I don't like OneKing's reasoning for voting me, though - (1) you want to discourage long posts, which I think hurts town (2) you classify saying you are town as scumsided rather than neutral (3) you claim (probably joking) that you are clear, and (4) providing the time you shouldn't expect posts from me (morning MST) merely provides a time, I'm sure there are times you sleep/commute as well and I would like to know them so you don't have an excuse for silence down the line. That said, I think OnceKing is acting slightly townsided because he has at least started some discussion by giving a reason for his vote, even if it is misguided. Moving forward, I see Cavalinho's post as scummy - Cavalinho, what were your reasons for wanting to lynch me? The same reasons as OnceKing, or is there anything else to add? If you wanted to suggest voting me, why not suggest it in your earlier post? Because, quite frankly, I wasn't sure if I should have pursued your post due to this actually being a newbie game. I wasn't sure if real players would actually think like that in a gametype that emphasize newness. But since I'm not the only one that thinks it, then I'm going to roll with the fact that this is probably the right path to go down. Oh, and for the record, this argument doesn't come out of nowhere. It's brought up in Ver's Mafia XXX guide at the top of the forum; Misder made the same kind of post you did at the start of the day and wound up being red. If players better than us are suggesting looking for the exact traits you showed in your very first post, we're probably on the right track. | ||
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Cavalinho
United States946 Posts
On February 17 2014 05:48 Amiko wrote: I appreciate you explaining your reasoning somewhat - do you have a townread on OnceKing right now, or do you think you would have followed any other post that had brought up my post? I think OnceKing's points are 1) Post is long 2) Criticism re: not playing before 3) Criticism re: claiming town 4) Criticism re: playtime 5) Inactives / not voting I think I touched on a few of these in my last post, but let me ask this - Regarding playing before, don't you think that is relevant to the game? Your last post even mentions that it is relevant this is a newbie game. I still think it is scummy that you wanted to suggest voting me but decided not to until someone else did, first. This early in the game I think we should post our suspicions as they arise. I townread OnceKing, because he's posting his thoughts without fear. Hell, he even brought up what I wanted to bring up, so I see no point to view him as scum at this point if we think the exact same way. I see no point in scumreading anyone that shares the same viewpoint as I do about something so suspect and out of place so early. Any other post probably would have brought me around to vote you, had I not finally come out and made my suspicions clear before anyway. Also, you say it's scummy to suggest voting you but I should post my suspicion as it arises. How is it that I'm scummy for saying that I think you're scum? Should I just never vote on my suspicions? Should I just ignore my suspicions if someone else shares the same sentiment as I do? Your argument has holes in it and really only seems to be poking at the fact that I'm supposedly bandwagoning. | ||
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Cavalinho
United States946 Posts
On February 17 2014 06:56 Lord Tolkien wrote: For your day 1 post: though it was long, it was fairly low-content like most of the other Day 1 posts, with the only outstanding quality of being long. Verbosity is not a redeeming quality in and of itself. I appreciate the extra info on yourself, but that wasn't necessary. We learned that: 1) you've read mafia threads before and this is your first mafia game on TL (aka like most of us, unnecessary I feel but that may just be me) 2) you claimed town (uninteresting) 3) when to expect your posts (somewhat useful, but unnecessary). Outside of that, you volunteered a town read on me for asking about the innocent child, and then advocated lynching idle players. I'm fine lynching idle players, it's a question of WHEN we lynch them. Day 1, it's a terrible idea due to limited information. You listed OneKing as an idle player and he actively contributed once he had a read, for instance. As the game progresses, then it becomes a very valid choice. As is, I would strongly recommend avoiding a Day 1 lurker lynch. The longer the game goes the better lynching lurkers becomes, but atm, no. So in general, there are reasons why it seems scummy. Not willing to condemn you based on that solely since it was one post, you did put up a decent defense and raised good points about Cavalinho. Except he hasn't provided any actual reason as to why I'm scum aside from voting him after agreeing with OnceKing. At best, his entire line of rationale can be classified as OMGUS; even then, it isn't a good one, as he is trying to push what he perceives as the weakest line of reasoning against the people pushing him right now. He says voting is scummy, but outing reads is not. But then I call him on it and he says that voting isn't scummy and the fact that I think he's mafia after someone else posted all of the things I was already thinking of is scummy. But he already said that outing reads isn't scummy. His logic is unsound and it makes no sense whatsoever. What's actually kind of funny was that I was rethinking my stance after what you posted earlier, but he keeps trying to push back on me which, in turn, makes me go after him. | ||
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Cavalinho
United States946 Posts
On February 17 2014 08:14 Lord Tolkien wrote: His rationale was that you stated that you had originally pegged his post as scummy, but didn't post until after OnceKing made the initial case. Which, honestly, in the current Day 1 climate of no info is as decently sound as we'll get. Since we have to lynch someone (I don't think we can go for no lynchings), I'm fine lynching Amiko and, assuming we have a Cop, checking either you (most favorable) or OnceKing (I read him as townish, but just to make sure). How we move forward Day 2 depends on how Amiko reads and if we get a red read (which isn't reliable since Godfather, and we probably have a 33%-50% chance of that being the fake read we get, and we might not have a Cop), but unless something new comes up, that's my (newbie) analysis of what we should do. I may be painting a target on my back to get mafia-killed, but whatever. Checking the more outspoken players such as you, me, Amiko, and OnceKing is a poor strategy. We can gather reads on each other by watching as we push our agendas throughout the game. Lurking players are a different matter entirely. Depending on what Amiko flips, we can get a relatively solid gauge on whats going on. Now, for the sake of argument, I'm going to walk through both scenarios. A) Amiko flips green or, heaven forbid, blue. 1: The mafia will most likely be hiding amongst the inactives since they had almost no pressure put on them throughout the first day. 2: Mafia started the lynch and cast suspicion on themselves. This is a possible scenario, but it's still unlikely that a cop check will solve the issue since the most likely candidate for pushing someone that is supposedly town would be the Godfather. B) Amiko flips red. 1: Mafia either defended him or bussed. Either way, mafia wouldn't be so outspoken on the first day trying to attract attention to themselves. 2: The people running the lynch should be almost confirmed town since mafia obviously wouldn't run one of their own guys into the ground so early. Either way, cop checks should be carried out on the uncertains lurking in the background rather than the most outspoken players. Hell, even if we don't lynch Amiko today, I wouldn't want a cop check to be carried out on him for the sake that we can rely on him talking more than the other 4 players or so not saying much of anything. I'm also putting a lot of emphasis on votelists because, even if we mislynch early, we can take a look at who's voting who and who is pushing what. If everyone on the chopping block for today's lynch is blue/green, we can look to the inactives as possible targets since no pressure was put on them throughout the day. There's still more than 24 hours left for today's votes. Don't forget that. We have all the time in the world. I'm not even 100% on the Amiko lynch yet, so I might take my vote down just so we can get more reads. | ||
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Cavalinho
United States946 Posts
On February 17 2014 13:12 OnceKing wrote: re: Amiko I actually agree with you regarding your points on Cavalinho and Lord Tolkien. More specifically I feel that they've both jumped onto the wagon I'm pushing onto you without contributing anything themselves: Cavalinho just said I beat him to it and Lord Tolkien, well... Going through his filter here's what Lord Tolkien's got: - random soft defense of you from before our roles came out - says he's unconvinced that Amiko is scum, then votes for him saying his vote doesn't matter (???)* - quoted a Cavalinho hypothetical scenario breakdown and just said he agreed with it without adding anything - takes no sides -- I'm either "town or Godfather", Cavalinho is "slight scum" or "moderate town", Beneather being slightly scum for voting him (???) - speculates on setup (meh) - focuses an awful lot on Godfather/NKs *Yes, your vote always matters. If you're town then this is your weapon. The only thing is that he's been posting a lot which I appreciate but I just don't see anything original coming out of him, and here's a disconcerting post... Yeah, we're all newbies here. Why bring it up? I reiterate, who CARES how much experience we do or don't have? Presumably we've all read guides or bits and pieces of other games or something else -- why should you want to detract from your own analysis unless you're trying to hide? I've been contributing. Just because I agree with your earlier post doesn't make me mafia. What, am I not allowed to follow plans through? Can I not agree with another person's analysis? I'm wasting time and effort defending myself because he keeps pushing on me for following a plan. Basically all of my posts boil down to either trying to kill Amiko or save myself, because he keeps calling me out for agreeing with you. I think it's ridiculous that I'm getting looked at as possible mafia because I agree with someone else's analysis. (For the record, I agree with all of what you said about it. Just in case this comes up again.) I'm actually getting very frustrated with the way this is going, because I can't sit down and get reads from anyone since I'm defending my views every other post I make. Even when I point at both Lord Tolkein and IAmRobik, I have people doubting the fact that I'm town since I'm focused on getting one lynch done today and looking at these other people in the mean time. (And also, Tolkein's disinterest in who gets lynched today is very concerning. I know I suggested him slightly before, but if we aren't going to go after Amiko, then I suggest either IAmRobik or Lord Tolkein.) Also, I stated earlier that we should be using our cop checks on the uncertains. Amiko's activity should tell us enough about his agenda if we leave him alone long enough, and we obviously can't get rid of all 2-3 mafia in one day. | ||
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Cavalinho
United States946 Posts
On February 17 2014 14:13 OnceKing wrote: Whoa, defensive! I'm just saying that you just agreed with me without really adding anything new. I'm honestly looking pretty hard at Lord Tolkien right now -- and I'd like to see a more split situation on votes anyhow because this will drive more discussion. Therefore, ##VOTE Lord Tolkien I'm getting very frustrated with Amiko. I'm going to stay on this vote until tomorrow and see what's going on later. | ||
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Cavalinho
United States946 Posts
My primary scumreads, as of right this moment, are Amiko, Lord Tolkein, and IAmRobik. Amiko has put together some analysis, but winds up coming to completely different conclusions from what I'm thinking. IAmRobik has pointlessly defended Amiko earlier and completely dropped off the radar after giving a spineless answer early on. (For the record, I think IAmRobik is scum because of the way he was pointlessly defending Amiko earlier, by using the exact same reasoning that makes Amiko suspicious.) And OnceKing is my strong townread as of right now. I see absolutely no reason for anyone to vote him for any reason, so Lord Tolkein voting him makes my stomach churn. I've also noticed that I'm starting to get really aggravated from Amiko's attacks on me; I know that I'm town, and I'm already losing my patience with someone trying to find hidden meaning in my accusations. Instead of just trying to tunnel him, I propose we all start following a more rigid guideline for this first lynch in order to stop all the OMGUS'ing going on. I think we all need to come to some sort of conclusion from the information we've gotten and the reactions we've received so far before making any other moves. We have a bunch of solid analysis going around and a clear, short, concise thread to work with. We should isolate our possible lynches to a smaller number of people and see what happens. Maybe the extra pressure will lead to some new insights. | ||
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Cavalinho
United States946 Posts
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Cavalinho
United States946 Posts
From LT: Your suggestion is sound, however. I'll lay it down. To open a case, one person proposes a person to be lynched and examined. When one case is open, you can't raise another person up for lynching. If people agree, that person gets voted for lynching, if not, the case can be closed and another person can be proposed after X number of votes to be overturned (say majority-1). | ||
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Cavalinho
United States946 Posts
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Cavalinho
United States946 Posts
To explain my reasoning on Cavalinho a little better, this is the kind of direct post I was looking for earlier. As I am looking at everyone in this thread, I want people to tell me what they agree or do not agree with. I don't see the post as important. But I wanted to at least try to clarify to Cavalinho why I think most of us found his followup vote so scummy in case he is town. You aren't even saying anything in this post. You say it's direct and that it matters, and then you're saying it doesn't matter. Explain your scumread. Do it now. Stop beating around the bush and looking for things you can twist. | ||
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