EPT[I] [S] Shadow Mini Mafia
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marvellosity
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On January 21 2014 12:02 kitaman27 wrote: I can't call VE scummy, else he will vote for me. I KNOW YOUR SECRETS. I'd rather talk about marv. He suggest that the all vanilla setup makes things difficult to start off rather than attempting to generate conversation. I never randomly generate conversation at the start of any games, and I very rarely talk about setup. You and most other players in the game should know this. Why are you suggesting it as something suspicious? | ||
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On January 21 2014 13:17 VisceraEyes wrote: It's just one of those things that may or may not end up adding up to something. Prome's thing is worse to me because he literally made up reasoning to respond to me. It doesn't make any sense to me at all. Fluffy? What does that even mean? You don't think Prome is being typical arch-bullshitter as per usual? | ||
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Nothing else was very interesting to me ##Vote: Foolishness | ||
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On January 21 2014 22:28 kitaman27 wrote: Mostly a weak idea to see if anyone wanted to take it farther than it warranted. Nothing useful really came out of it, besides maybe a few unnecessary defense posts that could possibly be looked at post flip later on in the game. Do you feel Hapa's attempts to generate conversation are town motivated or is he more concerned with personal appearance? Hmm. Alright. That might be reasonable. Defending marv always pro-town btw I'm fine with Hapa atm, seems like his typical tryharding. Should be relatively obvious by the end of the day whether he's scum or not. Banking on no currently | ||
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gonz why do you want to concentrate on me if I happen to be voting the person you seem to want to lynch? Is every one of your posts so far a sham? D: | ||
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On January 21 2014 22:51 gonzaw wrote: Im scared of kita since he seems to have that umreadable type of attitude when playing and pressuring. Doesnt help he gets into fluffy discussions and shit. I really agree with this though Still haven't quite got over kita being town in whatever game it was where he made some really large, terrible case on drazerk and pushed it repeatedly | ||
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I put a downpayment on a botox plan because apparently I look like someone 14 years older than me... | ||
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On January 21 2014 23:07 Holyflare wrote: Why Foolishness over sandroba? They have both posted nothing. Your goal is clearly to lynch a lurker today so why are you going to ignore the rest of what has happened on day 1 when your intentions are already set in stone? The wording of this question doesn't make sense, because the red follows logically from the green, no? | ||
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I bussed Adam because Palmar caught him red-handed and if I didn't bus him we were both going down | ||
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What do you think you or town are gaining by asking me that question about Fool? | ||
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This game is pretty different to normal because as a general rule I tend to go for unimportant/quiet players on Day 1, and in this game that type of player simply doesn't exist. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=387370¤tpage=6#120 His first vote in that game (2nd or 3rd post in his filter) is unexplained twaddle too. | ||
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On January 22 2014 01:16 VisceraEyes wrote: Morning guys. Marv no, I don't think it's the same kind of Prome that I'm used to seeing. What it reminds me of is that game I was the mayor and lynched the piss out of Prome D1. He was a lurky little shit that game, but I caught him on something very similar to what I noticed this game. Like I think it's awful that I have to ask this, but did you read my post on him? That being said, I at least dig one of his targets. I asked Foolish about his thoughts on this same matter and what I got is "lol you and Hapa townies" which is definitely NOT what I was after. He answered my question as if he'd read the exchange between us, but left me with a feeling that he hadn't actually read anything at all. If I see one more person say they're going to ignore my posts, I won't be responsible for the outcome. You have been warned. Pretty sure I saw you post in another game rather recently that you were ignoring someone else's posts... taken the ole hypocrite-tea, have we? And as you well know I always read everyone's posts, so yes, you should feel awful for asking that. Bad VE. You're talking about LX, and no it doesn't really feel the same. | ||
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all of those questions are pointless to answer or rhetorical. | ||
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On January 22 2014 02:05 sandroba wrote: @foolishness let's chat a bit. What's indicative of scum mentality in that WoS post you quoted? I don't really see it. @marv besides foolishness whoelse do you think it's worth looking into? I dunno yet. I find quite a few of kita's questions odd (especially taken all together), but I dunno if it's scummy-odd or just kita-odd atm. Then there's a bunch of people I have no idea about who need to post more, and a couple of light townreads. That is all | ||
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On January 22 2014 04:25 austinmcc wrote: We can skip the yes/no portion I guess... If you like Prome's explanation, I'm interested in hearing about that. If you don't, then you think Prome (1) is silly or (2) gave a false reason and/or (3) doesn't have a reason? If you don't like Prome's explanation and it's (2) or (3), then whether there was a point of contention or not is irrelevant, except that it SHOULD be a point of contention. In my book, making up or having a very weak justification for treating in a different manner two people who do the same thing is a scummy thing (which is the mindset I find myself in at the moment, that yes, what he did was scummy because I don't buy that justification) Just popping in between exercise and dinner, i'll go find kita's stuff a bit later. Mostly 1, maybe a touch of 3? It's just something I don't find very surprising. I've often remarked to Prome that I find his opening to games bad/weak/scummy because he makes senseless accusations/stupid fluff/whatever. Really (and this is to VE mostly I guess) I don't really care so much about him doing that at the start of the game, nor Hapa either, because it's what they do. The difference between here and LX is that on LX it was abundantly clear he was on the backfoot about his RNG plan, here his defence was on the frontfoot (partly *because* he didn't try to overjustify it again and again) and he simply moved on from it. I sincerely wish I found it as interesting as you and VE seem to :p | ||
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On January 22 2014 05:27 gonzaw wrote: Like, I'm reading WOS posts and they seem kind of fine; except some pointless questions (like his "Do you and Hapa have a history?" question here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=13#247 ) But then him being too passive and "nooby" strikes me as off. I'm pretty grey on others, but I haven't finished reading yet (on page 16). Kita seems to be looking better though. I like the fact that his thought process is consistent when going against sandro and myself. I mean that "Don't tell scum about what you are looking for because they will avoid it" when he voted sandro and did that stuff to me. Sorry, why can't mafia do this? | ||
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On January 21 2014 12:02 kitaman27 wrote: I'd rather talk about marv. He suggest that the all vanilla setup makes things difficult to start off rather than attempting to generate conversation. On January 21 2014 22:28 kitaman27 wrote: Mostly a weak idea to see if anyone wanted to take it farther than it warranted. Nothing useful really came out of it, besides maybe a few unnecessary defense posts that could possibly be looked at post flip later on in the game. Do you feel Hapa's attempts to generate conversation are town motivated or is he more concerned with personal appearance? I said I was ok with this explanation originally, but mulling it over it doesn't make much sense to me. Kinda weakly attacks me on a dumb basis, and the defence posts? People of either alignment are gonna make comments about how I play (early) Day 1 Anyways the bolded was one of the questions I was talking about. I find it hard to describe but meh. It's like leading by giving options... just weird phrasing. On January 21 2014 12:36 kitaman27 wrote: I wanted to see whether you thought that I was pushing sandroba based on his first post or not. Regardless of whether or not sandroba will react to having votes on him, I still think the best way to start off a game is to place votes early on 1-2 targets. If we're discussing players that have recently posted, I'm not really interested in joining you on VE. Would you be willing to support a Wave bandwagon? I find very few of his questions relevant thus far. I don't see what he is looking for. Wave, would you like to explain your approach to the first few hours of the game? Just a really odd way of asking Wave about his lacklustre start, don't you think? On January 21 2014 13:12 kitaman27 wrote: I'm probably closer to a 2 on Prom than a 10 right now based on your reasoning. Do you think Hapa is mafia for the way he is attacking you? Obvious and leading. On January 21 2014 13:29 kitaman27 wrote: You say that everyone is suspicious for not getting things rolling, yet later decide it's worth defending marv that he is willing to take a back seat role at the start. Do you think VE is the type of player that engages in serious discussion from the start? -snip- Again obvious and leading. On January 21 2014 23:04 kitaman27 wrote: So one of your strongest reads currently is based off a joke post? gonzaw, do you think VE's response to early pressure was a scummy overreaction or simply a concerned townie trying to fight off a bad argument? Again, it's giving binary options... like providing a wrong and right answer. None of these by themselves really suggests that much, but there's so many of them. All leading, or weirdly phrased, or kinda obvious questions. Odd. What I actually find suspicious of kita in light of recent posts is how he's attacking gonzaw. gonzaw has been looking pretty town to me lately, he's eager, lots of big posts, he's commenting on a lot of players, he's suspicious of a lot of players with decent grounds, and yet kita is nitpicking at him for his vote on Foolish compared to kita's. That's unnatural and it's not how I'm viewing the game and it doesn't feel right at all. | ||
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##unvote | ||
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VE I'm much more inclined to agree with Foolish on. I don't really see anything in his play that I find particularly scummy. He's pretty impetuous and involved gonzaw do you think kita's questioning of you is warranted? No-one seems at all interested and if you aren't then I'm gonna have to rethink this :/ | ||
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On January 22 2014 07:45 Hapahauli wrote: Would this suggest that you agree with Fool's reads, or do you just think his post is a town-tell? Do you think he's capable of faking those kinds of posts as scum? I think his post looks reasonable townie and there's a lot of effort. I'm not sure how much i agree with his reads atm kita lower, prome higher, marv much much higher, WoS ??, gonzaw higher But his reasoning feels townie - putting me where I am because I'm forgettable, while ego crushing I like it as an angle to take, it's non-routine i think he's capable of these posts as mafia, especially after the champions game, and the way he made a list at the end was actually eerily similar to how he made lists at the end of those posts :p but overall the meat of it made sense. and he's trying | ||
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On January 22 2014 07:48 kitaman27 wrote: From the start of the game to the point where he votes Foolishness and I comment on him, this is what he has commented on regarding other players: "Why the hell does WOS post "Welp" so many times? :/" "Like, I'm reading WOS posts and they seem kind of fine; except some pointless questions" (Originally posted by me) A valid post questioning Holy's defense of Foolishness. Now you say that you are suspicious of me for my attack on gonzaw due to the fact that "he's suspicious of a lot of players with decent grounds" Am I missing something or are you not reading the thread marv? gonzaw did make a big post on Holy that I have yet to read, but my attack post occurred at an earlier time. How can your suspicions against me be valid if you've got your timeline mixed up? It means I'm in your filter, if the timing is off then I'll check, I thought he'd posted other substantive thoughts about VE and musings on WoS etc by then | ||
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came after http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=22#435 and other posts where gonzaw talked about VE in quite some detail and also touched on Holy and WoS. In short gonzaw was not only tunnelling fool but spreading his tentacles about with quite a bit of thought | ||
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On January 22 2014 08:27 Hapahauli wrote: 2) Foolishness's Post Yeah, so I don't think it's a town-tell (as many people have mentioned before). His post in Parallel Worlds comes to mind, that he can fake these larger posts as scum: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=387370¤tpage=31#607 I will say though that I agree with a lot of it. Mostly that Prome and WoS's contributions after their early-game posting have fallen off a cliff. There's nothing in their filter besides early-game fluff yet, and looking back on things, their early-game contributions weren't all that impressive. I'm not 100% convinced that either are scum yet, but at this present time, they'd make good lynches for their lack of meaningful contributions to the thread. As for who I'd prefer between Holy/Prome/WoS? Not sure yet, and we have 24 hours to decide atleast. As for other players, I'm currently null on Foolishness, Marv, and Sandro. Town-reads on everyone else. To the bolded: that post in Parallels was a big load of bollocks though. Like he was mafia because everything in the post was bullshit and he didn't call out the genuinely scummy people/defended them. | ||
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gonzaw: Holy or Wave. Dunno about Prome, I don't have the issues other ppl seem to. Apparently I'm seeing ghosts with kita, I'll come back to that (or not) later. The Holy emotional stuff is pretty good as mentioned | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=19#369 explaining his previous post | ||
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What do you make of kita's long post? | ||
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But there's a large spectrum between "would lynch" and "convinced is town" I'm curious what you would have actually found townie from Foolishness yourself? What would he have to have posted recently? | ||
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On January 22 2014 22:49 kitaman27 wrote: I'd much rather hear who marv is considering voting, rather than defending a player he thinks is town. Wave looks better, for obvious reasons Prome is looking worse by default sandroba is looking worse by default Your recent posts look quite ok plus none of my townreads are interested in you Holy looks bad because I have no idea what he is doing with the blatantly town Hapa Within those 3. Maybe sand gets another day for being sand. Prome/Holy. Want both to post. | ||
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On January 23 2014 02:29 gonzaw wrote: Kay I'm back. Arg, now Prome reads town to me. What to do what to do. Also kind of forgot austin was playing this game, I'm eager to see his lynch push of the day. There's something weirdly interesting about the Holy issue. It seems contradictory in a sense. First, okay, yes, he did scummy shit; but that's irrelevant to my point. What happened, is that basically everybody is suspicious of him or accusing him. Not a single soul is defending him. I counted myself, marv, kita, Prome, Hapa and Foo basically saying "yeh he likely scum", and nobody else is defending him, just saying "I dunno" or "maybe I could vote for him". It's weird, in the sense....that if he's scum somebody would defend him, right? But then comes the other interesting part: he has not a single vote on him. I mean, think about it. I basically straight up called him scum. Hapa too. kita now does too. Foo said "Gonzaw's catch on Holyflare's contradiction is really damning and I'm almost ready to pull the trigger just on that". Prome agreed with Hapa and mentioned other stuff. Yet, not a single one of those (myself included) put a vote on him yet. Not only that, not a single one of the other people "not sure" or whatever put a vote on him either. I can imagine 2 scenarios: There is scum in those guys I mention, and there is scum in the guys NOT mentioned (like sandro, austin, WOS). If the guys I mentioned are scum, and Holy town, then surely they have an easy target right? They can park their vote on Holy, and be totally fine since 80% of the thread is against Holy (unless they don't want to be the first ones to do it or some shit). If the other guys I mentioned are scum (or rather, there is scum among them), then wouldn't this also be a good chance to park a vote on Holy? All the town "heavyweights" (who are pushing Holy) agree with a Holy lynch, so if you are austin scum, or WOS scum, or maybe sandro scum, or VE scum, etc, wouldn't you be VERY comfortable parking a vote on him? It's much more easier to pick Holy than to act "clueless town" and basically engage the thread in discussions and the like. So, why is nothing like that happening? I think this can make it more likely Holy is scum, based on how the thread is interacting with him. That would make sense, the townies find him scummy, and the scum are slightly bussing him (since Holy isn't even voted yet), or leaving the door open to bus him (if, for instance, VE or WOS are scum). I'll see what you guys think. I think a Holy lynch might actually be a good D1 lynch....but then again I think a D1 Foo lynch seems good too, and I don't want to "save" a scum Foolishness from today's lynch (if he is indeed scum). I agree with what you said above and below the line ##Vote: Holyflare what now? | ||
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how much is "slightly less"? actually slightly less? no sarcastic response, you earned such a question :p | ||
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On January 23 2014 02:43 kitaman27 wrote: Could you expand on this, even if it's brief? I didn't pick up on the obvious reason. Mine read was more based on the lack of anything wrong, rather than an abundance of anything he has done that is helpful. Also, could you justify your Holyflare vote for me with specifics? You mention that you thought gonzaw's points were good. Is that what you're going by or is the vote mostly due to his absence from the thread? I currently don't have a strong preference between sandroba and Holyflare and it seems like sandroba hasn't been inspired to rejoin the thread. I'll vote with you for the time being. ##Unvote ##Vote Holyflare Wave is waffling earnestly at length as I'd expect him to. Although he's only got one scumgame, I'd very much expect him to be more direct than he has been if mafia. I've been suspicious of him in two reasonably recent games for being slow and waffly (##, LXIV) and now it just seems it's how he opens day 1 as town. So maybe not obvious after all. I just think his thought process is transparent. Like he's posted a lot of his thought process, where's his agenda? Mainly with Holy that he seems angrier than was justified. But most of all it's the constant niggling at Hapa, especially with his last post(s) when Hapa was by a large margin the towniest guy in the thread. It's just not natural at all. Tbh I don't make a massive amount of his absence, I believe he'd be here posting as either alignment, so not that alignment indicative. | ||
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Is the plan really to just afk and hope people don't notice? | ||
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On January 23 2014 02:59 kitaman27 wrote: Too active as in you don't think you could pull it off or too active as in you don't want to kill me off right now? Too active in that it doesn't make sense to kill off someone as active as you right now, there are either 2 or 3 mafia other than you, and there's a few townies looking townie, so the pool remaining of less active players should be a reasonably high percentage play. | ||
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Just popped in before i went exercise and saw that holy post. Can't get my head around what to think about it in a short space of time, so I'll have to think about it more later will be back in plenty of time before deadline | ||
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On January 22 2014 07:19 Foolishness wrote: Questionable players Austin sandroba marvellosity Holyflare Gonzaw This is roughly in order of most to least town. Austin and sandroba might as well be afk until 3 pages ago, but since coming to the thread both have had strong appearances. I'm okay with them right now because they have brought things to the thread, and it is also obvious that if they continue their activity then they are town. If they keep going afk for long periods of time then start to worry. But I don't feel like that will happen. The following 3 people are all in the ? category. Marvellosity and Holyflare in particular because for all that they have said I don't feel they have really contributed much. Even as I'm writing this I'm thinking back, "what has marvellosity or holyflare done this game", and I cannot remember a single post they have made. That's a bad sign. Anything mafia indicative off the bat? No so much, but then seem to be here without actually being here. On January 22 2014 09:22 Foolishness wrote: I still stand by that marvellosity is a big mystery this game. He's not our lynch today but everyone should have at least one eye on him. On January 23 2014 05:20 Foolishness wrote: To explain Austin, at the time I made that post where you and sandroba are together, you and him had both shown up to the thread and posted a couple times, but that was it. My thinking was that, "okay, as long as these guys are here and continue to post they should be town". This especially applies to sandroba because he is known for being really inactive as mafia. You're here and posting, should be obvious that you are town. He's not here and not posting, and that speaks volumes for him. On January 23 2014 05:44 Foolishness wrote: Marvellosity. He's posted a bunch and hasn't done anything. Can you tell me without looking at his filter something that marvellosity has done for the town this game? + Show Spoiler + The real answer to your question is "both" On January 22 2014 02:05 sandroba wrote: @foolishness let's chat a bit. What's indicative of scum mentality in that WoS post you quoted? I don't really see it. @marv besides foolishness whoelse do you think it's worth looking into? On January 22 2014 02:19 sandroba wrote: I don't have a problem with kita. He was one of the first people to try to get the thread rolling and I agree with his recent comment on gonzaw's post. Prom and gonzaw are the ones giving me weird vibes so far, maybe foolishness, but I need more from him before I can tell. So what the fuck is going on here? In the first post, Foolishness is "sandroba's entrance was fine" - I believe this was picked up by multiple people who questioned it - and we never got an answer as far as I can see from Foolish's filter, despite being asked by more than one person (pls don't say i missed it thanks). Also that sandroba is fine as long as he continues posting. sandroba has not continued posting. So... moving on with Foolish's posts, he prefers to lynch me over sandroba on a "general feeling", despite the fact that by his own metric he should really want to be lynching sandroba pretty fucking hard right now. sand asked Foolish (and me T.T) some really random question, and then in the 2nd post follows this up by randomly tacking Foolish on as someone who is "maybe" giving him scumvibes, as an afterthought. Scum/scum? (connection bad blabla, not going to lynch on this). Actually Foolish's posts towards sandroba are exceptionally weak and contradictory in that he's basically not following through on his promises to bust sandroba's ass, which he really should be if sandroba is only fine if he continues posting - and sandroba was only fine in the first place because his posts showed some thought (did they really?)Foolish has kinda rumbled that sand is mafia but... yeah. Let me show something from Liar Game analysis: On May 25 2012 13:49 Ver wrote: Incognito's Analysis: Day 1: Right out the gate on page 6 we have some nice baseline standards for accountability: I love when people make these kinds of statements. It gives you something concrete to hold them accountable to. It doesn't matter that it's a bad idea to tunnel, but now if you don't see EchelonTee following up on this that is a huge hint. Looking through his filter, he doesn't really have any comments on this other than a wishy-washy statement about how he could be mafia but isn't apathetic. Classic mafia overreaction to trying to distance themselves from their team. Even though it isn't conclusive, its a good start. One method would be to push for a sandroba lynch and see if EchelonTee responds like he says he would. | ||
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On January 23 2014 06:17 Foolishness wrote: There's also this game where marvellosity is mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426387&user=marvellosity&view=all And there is a notable difference between that game and him this game. In that game where he is mafia he's much more trolly and has a very notable attitude: lots of swearing, calling people idiots, and quoting a post and responding "lol". Now I know his attitude has improved on the whole, but the fact that he's taking this game seriously probably does say something about him. So what is it saying, Fool? | ||
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Sexy mofos: marv Hapa gonzaw Mildly attractive mofos: VisceraEyes WaveofShadow austinmcc Totally ignoring this mofo for now: Holyflare Could be attractive, but i don't like his shoes mofo: kitaman27 Possibly unattractive, pending mofo: Promethelax Ugly mofos: Foolishness sandroba 1. Foolishness 2. Marvellosity 3. Promethelax 4. Austinmcc 5. Sandroba 6. VisceraEyes 7. Kitaman27 8. HolyFlare 9. Hapahauli 10. Gonzaw 11. WaveofShadow | ||
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On January 23 2014 06:32 Foolishness wrote: Well it did say you were town. But now you're nitpicking over something about sandroba, and when your vote comes down on me you're definitely going to have a lot of explaining to do on why you caused a town to be lynched after not pushing anyone day 1. How is that nitpicking? Why don't you seem vaguely interested in sandroba and instead only some murmurings? What were his strong posts? The one on Prome? Would you kill sand today instead of Prome? | ||
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On January 23 2014 06:39 Foolishness wrote: It's nitpicking cause I said that his opening was fine (when he first started posting). And I posted that not too long after he was here and posting (check the timestamps). Now you're claiming that I am, but am not but maybe I was interested and oh here's a quote from Liar Game with some analysis that is only tangentially related to my argument. At least Gonzaw's tunneling has conviction behind it (which is why he's town and you aren't). Show some conviction if you think I'm mafia. I would not bat an eye if sandroba died. The problem is is that Promethelax is mafia and there is solid information on why. What's the information saying sandroba is mafia? oh he's inactive. Well great, welcome to day 1 sandroba. So let me get this straight. 1) sandroba's opening posts are fine/insightful (??) 2) if sandroba continues to post and is active he is town 3) sandroba has not been posting or active, but... it's sandroba! that's the line you've taken, yes? And a) marv might be mafia for not doing anything b) marv points out contradiction on attitude towards sand c) marv is dissimilar to this mafia game so maybe he's town d) marv is mafia because he's attacking me right? | ||
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Am I mafia? Is sand mafia? Just based on likelihoods, doesn't need to be certain | ||
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On January 23 2014 03:59 Holyflare wrote: Oh well you've all unvoted now, whatevs! Really can't post anymore  (((( Sorry for the resources you spent looking into me :x!What do ppl make of this in particular? | ||
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Kinda curious that Fool has 4 ppl as likely mafia (Prome, holy, me, sand) but...willing to test him on sand for now. ##Vote: sandroba | ||
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On January 22 2014 23:42 Promethelax wrote: Will follow up on this as I read but this post stands out on my so-bad-it-has-to-come-from-town radar. The post so deeply misunderstands how to play mafia as a whole and places pressure so fully away from anything resembling clear thought that it does nothing. I cannot expound enough on how poor I think this line of thought is. But I don't see it coming from a scummer since my memory of HF is that he doesn't suck at scum and wouldn't post something so totally awful if he was concerned about how other people read him. I don't think these 2 are mafia together. | ||
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i don't like that lynch very much. In the part of Prome's filter where he attacked Fool and then voted kita which didn't make very much sense to me given he was apparently suspicious of Fool earlier, but now he's back voting Fool which makes more sense. Kinda confusing actually | ||
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##unvote ##vote: Foolishness | ||
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On January 23 2014 07:43 austinmcc wrote: I'm still alright with prome or sand, I don't think Foolishness's posts on sand are at ALL the reason people aren't lynching him. In fact, that's super duper wrong? marv, you just saying stuff, or you actually believe that sandroba isn't hanging because of Foolishness? That's not at all what i'm saying, what are you talking about? | ||
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On January 23 2014 07:46 austinmcc wrote: I read this to indicate "I want to lynch sandroba but people won't lynch him because foolishness, for whatever reason, does not want to lynch him" right, ok. "because" was the wrong word there. It was more "the two people I dislike most are on the Prome wagon, and one of the people i dislike is curiously against voting the other guy i dislike" | ||
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On January 23 2014 07:47 kitaman27 wrote: To be clear, you're voting Foolishness because you think he is mafia and prom is not, rather than voting based on who is on what wagon, correct? I didn't come to a particularly firm conclusion on Prome. At any rate he's less likely than Fool imo. I might be the only one who thinks this but I think that Prome's buddying of me is more likely to come from town on the balance of things. We like to play a bit of grabass and I'm not sure he'd be so blates about it as mafia | ||
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##unvote ##vote: sandroba | ||
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Fool/kita/Prome/WoS are others for various reasons. I'll probably chat at length about it tomorrow. | ||
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On January 23 2014 08:09 austinmcc wrote: When this game is over, I need the story behind marv's signature... TL Mafia Community Thread | ||
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See y'all tomorrow. welcome toad also | ||
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On January 22 2014 13:00 kitaman27 wrote: There is one thing that I disagree with in Foolishness's assessment. He states that sandroba has had a strong appearance and has brought things to the thread. I don't see it so far. When he rejoined the thread, his re-enterence was extremely vanilla. He asked Foolishness about his WoS, which had already been beaten to death and he gave a softball to marv. His statement about Prom wasn't really anything new that he brought to the thread. I'm always hesitant to go after sandroba because I know a lot of the time he goes long periods of time without contributing much and then bursts into the thread with a great case. However, there is a distinct lack of aggressiveness in his posts and after 30 hours into the game, if he can't be bothered to play, that's on him, not me. -snip- @Foolishness, was there anything in particular that made you eliminate sandroba from lynch consideration? ##Unvote ##Sandroba That's actually a not-bad case against sandroba as it goes for that time of the day. On January 22 2014 23:18 kitaman27 wrote: My vote is on sandroba. I suppose you could call it policy. I'd much rather lynch him now, over an individual who is playing if he isn't going to contribute. I also expect more than one big post if he does return. I hadn't looked into Prom/Holy/yourself since your names are coming up the most often. I will certainly change my vote from sandroba if I find someone that I'm confident about. Possibly even slightly less than confident. I really wish people would vote sooner though, even if they need to change their mind. This seems like it is going towards the path where everyone shows up with their vote an hour or two before the lynch. But it's policy? Don't really think saying that is scummy in particular, but it does devalue his case a little. Also indicates willingness to change his vote off sand. On January 23 2014 07:07 kitaman27 wrote: Rather than getting replaced, I believe sandroba prefers this approach: Sandroba: whoa 3 minutes from the lynch already? Sorry guys, I've been much more busy partying than I intended. I'll be sure to catch up tomorrow, I swear. Sandroba Day 2: LOL NOPE. Pretty sarcastic post but it suggests the mindset of kita thinking sandroba is mafia I guess. On January 23 2014 07:51 kitaman27 wrote: I'm happy where I am, so you should join me.[Prome rather than sandro - marv] Asking austin to join him on Prome rather than sandro. Possible mafia motivation, but meh, can easily be town wanting to lynch Prome really. Actually I don't care so much about all those posts so much. Mostly put it there so sand-kita stuff is together. It's the bit right near the deadline that makes me feel icky On January 23 2014 07:59 kitaman27 wrote: So prom, you're given the deciding vote and contradict yourself from minutes earlier? I really don't like this. It's pretty obvious Prome was just joining in the shenannies, and he'd indicated he was fine with a sand lynch previously. So what's the problem? Did kita really find sand's posts when he came back convincing, incl. the one on Prome, to stay on Prome and then chastise Prome like this? Suspicious. And a muted post-lynch reaction too. I hate how kita approached the lynch + deadline stuff in general, but it's kinda mitigated by the fact that flicking through his filter, there seems to be a genuine crapload of effort in there, just looking at players in depth. Don't think I'd lynch kita over VE atm. Need more Wave/Toad especially also. | ||
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On January 24 2014 01:51 gonzaw wrote: You just called him town there. Not scum = town. Or are you going with that weird "if he is scum, then the reason for him being scum is not his vote on me" reasoning there? If it's the latter it was worded badly On January 24 2014 01:36 Promethelax wrote: My 5 point scale puts 3 as null sand was on the scum side of null. I didn't find it totally impossible that town sand would come out with an ass backwards awful case on me. Syllo did the same thing in chronotrigger and the two of them are one person in my mind. He was never town in my head but he was scummy for lurking not for anything in particular. I don't think you know how to read though buddy. When I said that sandro was capable of bad play as town I meant he was capable of bad play as town not that he was, in this case, bad town. He deserved a lynch for being a lurker not for posting a bad case. | ||
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On January 24 2014 01:54 gonzaw wrote: So marv, you have no problems with Prome's actions regarding sandro at the deadline then? It still seems a little bit strange. I'd have OMGUSed the shit out of sandro. Why would mafia-Prome be less likely to than town-Prome?? | ||
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On January 22 2014 02:27 sandroba wrote: Most of his interactions seem a bit fake and force to me. It looks like he is doing stuff because he is supposed to be doing that stuff as town, but it doesn't look natural. I.E. that first post, than the whole hapa interaction, seems like he was fishing for it for no real reason other than to look ok. The comment about you knowing him so well after you said he looks like he is bullshitting isn't sitting so well either. This is literally the only commentary of suspicion on anyone in the early game for sandroba. And he carries it through to later. As far as I'm aware, sand isn't particularly known for just bussing his team-mates for no reason right out the gate. | ||
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sand knows that he's the liability so he's planning on getting lynched day 1 and making his team-mates look good for it. So kita votes him early so he has that nice early vote and makes sarcastic comments about how sandroba usually just afks. but kita can't vote for sand in the end because kita needs credz for later when Prome maybe flips, so kita votes for Prome so that kita and Prome are well distanced. Now Prome doesn't omgus sand because he's playing the "sand can be bad as town card" for cheesecake credit, but in the end joins in the shenannies at the last minute to look good, after sand comes in with a case on Prome so that sand is making a case on Prome who ends up voting for both kita and sand through the day and kita votes for both of them too but has his vote on Prome at the end so there's this massive big circle where none of them can be mafia but they are actually mafia because that's clearly what's going on. | ||
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On January 24 2014 02:11 gonzaw wrote: You forgot the part where Foolishness is a traitor and this is bastard game. Now you're being silly. | ||
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On January 24 2014 03:46 VisceraEyes wrote: Like what's the fucking point of me coming in and trying when people just think it's funny and make jokes and NOT talk about my contributions? Yeah, this game can eat shit. ? Stop it dear. Do you think kita is actually suspicious or is it just the combinatrics thing you find weird? If not kita, who? | ||
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On January 24 2014 04:52 Foolishness wrote: I don't see any reason why all five of the people on sandroba aren't exempt. Yes I know what I said about marvellosity yesterday and that I would lynch him, but as I pointed out in my previous post here it doesn't seem likely for mafia to hop aboard the sandroba bandwagon. Really the most likely scenario of this happening is the mafia bus of sandroba, and given by the votes and who was voting that would probably mean that I'm mafia as well. I suggest reading my post I linked above again because based on the timestamps and who was voting and why I think it's clear that everyone on sandroba is town (as unlikely as that sounds in terms of raw numbers). Any of the people that switched had good reason to keep their vote on me. Moreso, as I pointed out, it is likely that Promethelax is town because mafia were sitting good with myself being the top lynch and second in line (Promethelax) also a town lynch. The overall point here is that the sandroba bandwagon was not initiated by mafia nor exacerbated by mafia. Mafia were sitting pretty and never expected that sort of switch to happen in the last 10 minutes. Furthermore the votes on sandroba were so close (1 minute apart for the last two) that it's very unlikely Promethelax was like, "oh I can vote for my mafia scumbuddy to gain credibility cause he already has the most votes". No, things happened too fast for it to be planned out like that. No scum would have moved to him at the start, no scum would have moved to him during the middle, and no scum would move to him at the end. Based on what happened, I suggest we look at WoS as well as VE. I like the arguments brought up against VE so far and I think a lot of the same thing can be applied to WoS as well. In particular lazily throwing his vote down on me. Here are his posts about me after I started posting in the second half of the day up to the point where he voted for me and left. What is disturbing about this is his wishy-washy behavior about me. He says he doesn't agree with my case on Promethelax, and that's fine in itself, and he also says he wants to "lynch me less". Then before voting for me says that my answers were "good enough" and that they "fit for a lack of a better term", and that it's my "early play that doesn't make sense to me". If my answers are fitting and good enough why are you voting for me? Just cause you don't agree with me on a person being mafia does not make me mafia. I was actually really surprised when he dropped his vote on me, who tells someone that they have good answers but they are still lynching them? What is also interesting is that he's entirely sheeping a read and admitting to it. Admitting to sheeping a read does not exempt you from sheeping a read. Does it seem like he has his own opinion on the matter? Does it seem like he has an idea of who to vote for? No. Look through his posts, he never really accuses anyone, and never says that he thinks person X would be a good lynch (as I said above, he never said that directly about me either). He dances around a lot of people, myself, marvellosity, Promethelax, etc. Sure, he threw his vote down and knew he wasn't going to be here before the deadline, and there is nothing wrong with that. The problem is that he had no opinion on who should be lynched before the vote. Also his vote started a landslide, since there were already 2 votes on me, and at the time the next closest persons had 1 vote. This is a critical vote because it started the pile up on me, and when people came back and saw this they started piling on (even though those people piling on are likely town cause they all jumped ship to sandroba). On January 24 2014 04:54 VisceraEyes wrote: In this post, scumFoolish tries to make town believe that scum VE and scum WoS, rather than try and save sandroba somehow, just lazily plop our votes down on Foolish. Because THAT doesn't draw attention to people! VE, was this really your reaction to the spoilered post? | ||
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On January 24 2014 07:00 austinmcc wrote: VERY WELL, CITIZEN. YOU MAY BE ON YOUR WAY. I think a couple people were doing it, and it's just...there's a lot of it. Lots and lots and lots of vote talk, timing talk, and very little consideration for votes PLUS FILTERS. Who do you think is particularly guilty? Is anyone particularly guilty of it also scummy for it? Do you think it's made the thread unreadable or something? | ||
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On January 24 2014 07:46 Promethelax wrote: I think terrible posts followed by good posts is a townie thing from foolish more than a scummy thing. No lie his early posting looked horrible and even worse with a Sand flip but he knows that and looks at the thread and figures he can push through on logic and big posts? I see a scum foolish just lurking himself to death there. It would be a depressing place to be as a scummer. It is one reason I like VE (okay, the only reason I like VE) he has been in the thread and actively talking with us all even if his discussion hasn't been all that productive I see him being more depressed if he is scum. Not that that is a solid reason for a read but it is something I've been keeping in mind. No, this is an error in thought, and one which I made for a couple of cycles quite grievously in the Champions game. Foolish was under the kosh for a long time at the start but consistently made long, effortful posts, and I spoke to him afterwards and it went something along the lines of "well it was a champions game, i had to try" I hard defended him for something like 2 cycles that game and ironically only became suspicious of him after he claimed cop and we lynched his redcheck... why? because the targets he was pushing (and not pushing) were increasingly not making sense. Fool almost looks too scummy to be scum for his actions around the lynch, but actually I don't think Fool minds doing that kind of thing as mafia. Anyway all that is preamble, because I think what Foolish has been saying and doing today *has* largely been making sense, in contrast to the champions game. Maybe he's upped his game but at the moment occam = fool is making good posts because he is town after all, despite early wonkyness. Obviously this isn't "confirmed town" but he's way behind several other players. | ||
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On January 24 2014 07:54 gonzaw wrote: But D2 is VE's trial of fire. If he does indeed not show up at all, or does to speak of bullshit stuff like still going on about his conspiracy theory ignoring everything else, he's a surefire scum lynch. If he comes, calms down, makes some sense....then he's still likely scum lynch, but less so. That's town's call then. Regarding Toad: meh. D2 is his trial of fire as well (trial of...wind?). WoS's "wonky" posts lately seem to weird me out, it's like he's going crazy or something. I cba to reread his filter again, but he's worth pressuring. This is exactly how I see it. At the moment VE's 'ragequit' feels quite artificial as we have literally just lynched mafia day 1 and nothing anyone has been saying was particularly unfair. If he afks/holds on to this rage it's a free lynch I think, if he comes back and plays then we can actually evaluate more. | ||
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On January 24 2014 08:17 gonzaw wrote: Well, maybe it was to instill WIFOM into town. Or maybe I'm just too sexy to die Or maybe my jokes are so funny they can't wait until Postgame to hear more from me if they kill me. Or likely that all my reads are wrong and I'm cluttering shit up I guess (that usually seems to be the main reason in other games). Perhaps I need to do another near-deadline shenannies to get their attention. This must be the answer. There is no other reasonable explanation. | ||
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On January 24 2014 08:55 Toadesstern wrote: the first is adressed above. The second, yeah both seems incredibly unlikely and I'm betting on 2 mafias being within WoS/VE/Kita but if that's not the case, yeah I'd actually rather start looking into one of those 4, starting with prom, marv and austin before considering foolish. Are you serious?? | ||
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Definitely the simple solution toad. Your mind is a marvel. | ||
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So you forget that and think about the content of the posts after that. | ||
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In short: meh. If a couple of other ppl start looking really townie then I'll revisit him. I wanna revisit kita's long post tomorrow because it read quite well but I didn't get the same feels from it as I did Fool's post, and I want to know why, if there's a reason or if I'm just rabidly anti-kita because kita. (<3) | ||
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that was effectively the main reason I was campaigning against Fool towards the end of day 1 if you recall... | ||
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On January 24 2014 10:17 austinmcc wrote: I know. It was something I had been meaning to dredge up again, but I was focused on finding lynch target between prome and sandro and not on poking at Fool. I liked that you did though, I think I posted something that was just a dinky +1. But I hadn't seen you keep poking at it, whereas I continue to see it as a valid question mark on Foolishness's head. Given you agreed with my rationale for pushing Foolishness at the time and Fool was a main contender for the lynch (leading for much of it), why on earth were you dismissing Fool and only wanting to lynch between sand and Prome? | ||
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Like the only way it makes sense is if you and Fool are mafia together and that is seeming quite unlikely right now :p | ||
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Also amused that we've come at this at different times and kinda different reads. Probably if we were synced I'd be more worried  | ||
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toodles for now, tis late | ||
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"Don't talk about game-relevant things like voting" "instead talk about a pointless hypothetical gonzaw is mafia scenario and loop around the same Foolish stuff 30 times, that's way better" | ||
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On January 24 2014 13:24 WaveofShadow wrote: Now this one is slightly more interesting. VE and I again both came up with this at the same time. One must ask oneself here, given that we know now the alignment of one sandroba, do you really think VE and I would both defend him at the exact same time with basically the exact same post? I've had mindmeld with people before, and this isn't it. It's a totally obvious point that can be brought up by anyone (whether in a similar timeframe or not). The examples generally provided by Wave are really weak examples. On January 24 2014 13:24 WaveofShadow wrote: This post belies a towny mindset. Nothing much more to say about this one---I believe a post like this probably isn't easy to fake as scum. It's a known fallacy to gutread someone who thinks you're town as town, an obviously doesn't always apply given the people in this game life Foolishness who were suspect for throwing out random-ass townreads, but as scum it's certainly easier to throw out those townreads without coming up with a specific reason such as this. It's all in the mentality. It's like you've never even seen VE play mafia or something? This is incredibly bad and VE is so, so capable of posting stuff like this as mafia. And it's actually really easy as mafia, because one thing you're looking out for as a scumplayer is allies. You're hyperaware of who is suspicious of you and who is friendly towards you when you are scum. Ez pz. On January 24 2014 13:50 WaveofShadow wrote: I think the absolute worst thing VE has got going for him in his filter is his 'round-the-lynch' shenangians, Vote-swapping all over the place with zero justification. In my opinion however, that is the ONLY scummy thing he has going for him at this point in his filter. It's not small, but it is enough to ignore everything I've posted about thus far? So yeah, the reasons so far are mostly :/ On January 24 2014 14:27 WaveofShadow wrote: This sounds familiar. That's right, it's the exact same rationale he uses against VE later on in the day! Now while this doesn't indicate scum, I'm not sure of the viability of applying the same heuristic to multiple people like this---essentially every time somebody doesn't perform to your liking, you try to call them scum? I maybe should give it a little more credence because this heuristic is entirely meta-based and I know Prome is good at meta, but where is the proof? For us laypeople, how do I know that Foolishness is better than this? This kind of thing falls into 'stuff that doesn't pop out' territory. I can throw this back at him; I've seen Prome play, and I know he is capable of blasting people away with insane cases. He hasn't done it this game. Scum? (See how easy that was?) I literally don't see the issue with this. I don't see how it's even supposed to be scummy. I use this heuristic regularly, mostly with success (Wave in LXIV was an exception... :p). Several fast examples: Fool in champions game n2/d3 or so, syllogism in Hydra 2 re: wagon forming, Palmar in Rock Band re:me, Palmar in Bureaucracy re:syllogism, sandroba this game re  rome. "I expect x from y as town, and this is getting it all wrong" is something that you can apply to any player, you just obviously have to apply it to different extents. I don't see in any way how this makes someone mafia...On January 24 2014 16:20 WaveofShadow wrote: You know who else nitpicks at obviously stupid things? Foolishness. What's the point this is making? Wave, your whole defence of VE on the whole feels very stretched. And on the other hand, your whole attack of Prome feels similarly stretched the other way. Especially since you spend much of your posts on Prome telling us that this and that looks reasonable. And it seems very in isolation from how the wagons went down, and how sandroba treated Prome. | ||
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On January 24 2014 22:48 kitaman27 wrote: From what I could tell, he usually comes out with this huge "why VE is town" post the day he is about to die. I didn't find any examples to compare to his behavior this game, aside from a few overly aggressive/frustrated posts. What worries me about WoS's post is that he doesn't seem to consider the sandroba vote on Prom. Even if he has a scum conclusion, I'd think he would at least comment why it's a calculated move. I'll have a longer post out today on WoS/VE, but I might not have the time until this evening. On January 24 2014 22:47 marvellosity wrote: Wave, your whole defence of VE on the whole feels very stretched. And on the other hand, your whole attack of Prome feels similarly stretched the other way. Especially since you spend much of your posts on Prome telling us that this and that looks reasonable. And it seems very in isolation from how the wagons went down, and how sandroba treated Prome. ZOMG MIND MELD kita confirmed town gg | ||
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On January 24 2014 22:51 gonzaw wrote: marv, does that bad defence tell you more about scum WoS or scum VE? You know, if VE was town I think he'd be all over marv this game. Only lurker Foolishness had the balls to call marv scum this game basically (for marv "not doing anything" and "not saying anything memorable" and the like). With a town VE in this game, would that really happen? VE never mentioned marv at all this game I think (might be wrong though, but cba to check his filter im at work) This is absolutely the money question (to the bolded) As an aside to your 2nd paragraph, VE was pretty muted towards me in LXIV where we were both town. I think he was in a huff that I was talking to rayn so much, although I'm not entirely sure that was the actual reason, but it's what he told me :p Town-VE and Mafia-VE buddy with marv. Town-VE attacks marv if he thinks marv is mafia, and Scum-VE won't attack marv because marv can take him apart. So that shit is kinda neutral. Going back to your first question, I'm gonna ask something to Wave instead: do you think the game-state + how other players have been talking to VE warranted a ragequit? | ||
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On January 24 2014 22:59 gonzaw wrote: Well, to me your play this game on D1 may have warranted a "Town VE thinks marv is scum and will tunnel him to death" attitude perhaps. Obviously not strong evidence at all about anything, but it's interesting. That works both ways though. People who have played with each other a lot have kinda different, maybe more subtle heuristics for reading each other. Stronger townies than VE (Palmar notably) have made large cases on me D1 for apathy, uninvolvement, etc. Don't really see why VE would jump all over me for what I did D1 because what I did D1 isn't actually scummy for me at all. A relevant example is that I don't find VE's switching about massively scummy like most of the rest of you seem to. For me it's the misplaced emotional responses to what's happening in the thread that's getting my goat. | ||
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On January 24 2014 23:07 WaveofShadow wrote: It seems I may not get to defenses of myself if I'm engaged in discussion with you guys so marv, can i ask you (if you don't mind me changing tracks super quick---we can change back after): Do you think all of the 'WoS is wishy-washy' cases hold water? Because I can tell you right now that shit pisses me off (maybe less so because the players who talk about it---Fool/Hapa I believe don't know me that well). My D1 is usually pretty bad. I almost NEVER have strong scumreads on D1 and I'm not going to fake confidence about them if they don't exist. If I'm wishy washy about something in thread it's because I'm not afraid to show the rest of the town my thought processes on a matter, which I would think is fairly obvious that that is what I am attempting to do. I thought your stream of consciousness on day 1 looked quite fine to me. I don't know about these cases of yours now. It's not really the wishy washy... they seem to be zooming in or exaggerating on weird things and disregarding (or looking at weirdly, i.e. sand/Prome) other stuff. It suggests a weird perspective on the game, which could either be coz you're mafia, or you're weird... (pass right now) | ||
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On January 24 2014 23:10 WaveofShadow wrote: And see that's where we disagree. I find stuff like that is rarely artificial. I'm not even sure I can think of a faked ragequit or anything like that in recent games (though you know better than me meta-wise, obviously, so maybe an example exists?) Gonzaw, from my perspective, town brings themselves closer to losing if I let you go through with lynching the both of us. Hell even if I'm wrong about VE, you bring yourselves closer to losing if you lynch me. Of course I'm going to fight this, I don't know what you expect from me. Lay down and die so you do nothing productive for the next 2 days and then realize you were wrong? If I really spent a lot of time, I could go find a whole bunch of games where VE "ragequits" as mafia. But you'll just have to take my word for it, because... effort for no reason. | ||
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On January 24 2014 23:18 WaveofShadow wrote: No, that's fine obviously. What you need to understand is that I believe that could have come from town, and just because we may disagree on that doesn't make me scum. Nor does my different perspective (and methodology) of providing reads make me scum either. I believe if you really consider (and normally I wouldn't ask anyone else to do this because I don't have much faith in meta, but I do you are particularly good at it) the way I play in my past games, you should be able to find reconciliation with the way I've played here. Why do you think I'm fencesitting like a baws? ^^ I guess mostly I'd like to see the rest of your content. And for VE and Toad to come play the game some. | ||
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The rest of us risk running round in circles discussing the same points otherwise. | ||
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On January 25 2014 00:48 gonzaw wrote: KISS everybody This is the motto I live my life by. austin: no. YOU stop cluttering the thread. Don't really care how useful it is for you, find other stuff that's useful to you that isn't dumb please. Why is everyone finding Fool scummy just as I'm finding him townie? It's like suddenly people are hyper aware of what he did on Day 1 now even though that was sometime ago, and no-one cares so much about anything since. WoS, do you really find Foolish finding an inconsistency/change in stance you made re: whatever-the-odd-thing-was-that-I've literally-just-forgotten-despite-reading-it-2-minutes-ago scummy? | ||
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On January 25 2014 00:51 WaveofShadow wrote: It works if you consider an apologetic sandroba who pissed off his scumteam by lurking or who considered a bus like this woudl be a good idea. Again I believe if Prome is scum then sandroba's case on him was PURPOSEFULLY weak. This might hold water if Prome wasn't one of sandroba's original targets. That's a very long play that I find really quite unlikely. | ||
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I'm not sure. gonzaw was kinda kidding around earlier, but mafia are in a fucking vile spot so stupidity like this is something I'd countenance. VE+you are pushing weird scumteam theories. Toad thinks Fool is townier than sand voters. kita is oddly on the sidelines. In your favour is that you are here. Whether you're mafia or not, though, I don't get this whole line of anything. Could Prome+sandro be mafia together? Yes, it's possible Is there any particular reason why this should be the case? No, not really. | ||
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##Vote: VisceraEyes Come play, sweetcheeks. | ||
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you never bitch when I'm thread bully. <3 | ||
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On January 25 2014 01:24 gonzaw wrote: Well WOS, only you and VE seem to have that problem (I don't see Toad nor kita complaining). Both of you came up with this ridiculous idea of the Foo/sandro/Prome scumteam. Coincidence? gonzaw... lol. | ||
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On January 25 2014 01:28 WaveofShadow wrote: Nope, it's the reason I've been considering him town. Go ahead and tell me your post is not bias right now. Tell me how likely it is that as scum I'd take the difficult way out here, hard defend my scumbuddy ALL GAME rather than acquiesce quietly. It's waaaayyyyy more likely that I am wrong about VE than we are both scum. KISS. This is getting ridiculous. Are you really KISSING given your current theory? Can we move on to something that isn't this? This isn't helping me getting a read on you really. | ||
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The problem with this whole conversation is this: a)townie paranoia and weird connection theory b)mafia inventing some theory and sticking to it ??? Or maybe - are you voting Foolishness? Or what's going to happen there? | ||
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Not entertaining wifomy shit about that either. | ||
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kita is more interesting, if Wave has things to do first then that'll probably line up with when I get around to looking at kita again. Although I kinda want to wait until kita has done his latest round of posting. | ||
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On January 25 2014 04:24 Toadesstern wrote: No idea, I haven't read a single post from Holyflare so no idea if his accusations on my predecessor as you coined it so nicely make sense, btw also something WoS mentioned about me how I kept the reads from Holy... I didn't even know that lol I did ignore it in general as I was seeing the same thing from foolishness about Sandro and it was so extreme that I just thought it has to be an exaggeration until austin pointed out that is indeed weird. He has been on Sandro for a while, called him mafia and suddendly started calling the lynch bad and wasn't willing to vote him. Haven't put too much thought into it. I had to catch up, I had to reread a bunch and as stupid as this situation may be I just can't catch up, reread and at the same time put the same amount of time into reading yet other filters as you guys are doing right now. I have to make this work somehow and I start out with what's #1 on my priority list. Just saying because you still don't seem to understand the situation I'm in. Yes a bunch of stuff I'm going to say will be less in detail than stuff you do and I don't have the time to do proper research like you guys. That's to be expected and there's nothing I can do about that. Yes I'm slightly angry about the fact that you've basicly called me out about not reading carefully enough... Yeah I'm explaining it from the Sandro <-> Foolish perspective but it seems to be the same thing you're getting at? Because like I said I haven't read Holy's posts. How is this possible if you've read the game? ... | ||
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VE can you answer kita please? | ||
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On January 25 2014 07:08 VisceraEyes wrote: I mean if it was his last act in the game then I don't see why not - especially if you're talking about the 2-3 vote being onto prom, as if this is plurality lynch then the other guy would have been voted off anyway. the point is, Foolishness exists | ||
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On January 25 2014 07:15 VisceraEyes wrote: I have a general idea of how they went down. I know Foolish was up for lynch, and Prom and sand both were possibilities. I was thinking about switching to Prom but felt like Foolish was manipulating me and so I stayed on Foolish. Like, it just seems like people are putting WAAAAY too much stock into VCA. That hardly ever happens here, and I'm starting to see why. It's not really VCA, VE. It's "would mafia do something that makes it more likely for mafia to get lynched, or something that makes it more likely for town to get lynched" | ||
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are you actually trying to infuriate me by repeatedly saying filters when ive said it isn't filters? | ||
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On January 25 2014 07:27 VisceraEyes wrote: But the principal is the same marv - you're telling me that a townToad who knows he's town and knows that Holyflare is town could NOT read the thread and anytime he sees a Holyflare post say "Welp no scum here, moving on" and just not read the post? Are we talking about the same Toad? It just seems unbelievably dumb. But you may have a point, it is toad. | ||
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On January 25 2014 07:30 Toadesstern wrote: how is it that this apparently ISN'T considered to be the natural thing to do I told you exactly why. People respond and talk about the posts that you're ignoring, so you have no context of what they're saying, no idea if what the people are saying about Holy is reasonable or not. Is x twisting this? Is y misrepresenting that? Is z making a fair assessment? You have no idea! | ||
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Do you just mean that you'd expect him to be stronger in his suspicions of him on n1? I mean maybe it's something? but you seem to be making a lot of it in that post | ||
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On January 25 2014 07:43 gonzaw wrote: He wanted him to die on D1, why wouldn't he want his replacement to die N1-D2, specially when he had the revelation that his top scum read is town? Oh I see. Like why is he on Wave now and hasn't thought about toad so much type thing. hmm. yeah ok that's weird. For some reason it feels less far through the day than it is if you know what i mean (probably not) | ||
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Toad can't straight up lie? Ha! | ||
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On January 25 2014 07:51 gonzaw wrote: Well, there's also the "Doesn't push Holy at all throughout D1, just casually mentions his lynch is 'good'" stuff, and the "Mentions his lynch is good, and in the same post is wishy washy about him" stuff. Yeah, I don't really agree with that though. How he posted about Holy on day 1 looked quite natural to me. Mebbe I should have said that that was the point I agreed on :p | ||
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On January 25 2014 12:32 WaveofShadow wrote: Your reasons for finding Toad towny in this post remind me of the reasons why I find VE towny. What say you to that? The only thing I find weird from Wave today. Weird way of kinda admitting that his reasons for finding VE town are wonky? Meh. Agree with gonzaw though, his filter is remarkable today, can not lynch Worryingly the two other posts I noted down because I agreed with them were from austin On January 25 2014 12:43 austinmcc wrote: I'm not seeing the connection, tbh. If you mean because you're townie on VE for conspiracy theories, I don't think that translates. Toad is less conspiracy theory and more...jumping straight into things, convinced, and PUSHING them. I think, honestly, otherwise, you don't actually have good reasons to think VE is town. I think it relies very very heavily on both talking about sandroba, except that you are both saying the same FACTS. Sandroba being a lazy scum is known. Apparently sandroba not caring about pressure is KNOWN. You're not both taking in information and spitting out these same weird thoughts or anything, you're mostly just both saying "the sun is hot." You have a minor point on VE's ragequitting, how it's honest, more likely town, but you ask whether he ragequits as scum. If you believe the answers to that question (marv said yes, dunno if anyone else chimed in), then...all that ragequit jazz is null now. alktjghaelkteahtea. Whatever. I don't see why you think the reasoning on the two are similar. And I don't think you have good points about VE. Sry. This isn't to dig at Wave, this is more to comment on VE. More in a sec On January 25 2014 12:19 austinmcc wrote: I think VE, more than anyone else today, has slipped past a lot of attention. I haven't been able to chat with him. A bunch of his time in thread today was pork chop discussion or discussion of Toad reading HF's filter. The only recent positive for him is that he spent some time N1/D2 attacking prome. Like, out of any target mafia wants to go after, he takes a guy that comes off looking pretty good after the lynch, RATHER than attacking foolishness when given an opening, rather than attacking you, wos, toad. It's an odd choice. Otherwise, he has not scumhunted today. PART of that is people shutting down his suspects. PART of that is him scumhunting by presenting teams or relying on votes. Unsure on how to weight those, but, to me, the contributions he has presented today do not make him town. This is why I want to actually get a chance to speak with him. austin much better when not wifflewaffling about stupid stuff and actually talking about stuff to do with alignments. Really at the moment it's something like: gonzaw/marv/austin/prome - very sexually attractive wave - becoming increasingly sexually attractive by sheer dint of effort and activity apart from anything else, cba to talk at length because no reason kita - also becoming increasingly attractive, to a lesser extent. I went back to read his large vote analysis post because at the time I wasn't convinced why for whatever reason. It looks better the 2nd time round. People have kinda taken the piss out of his combinatrics, but he seems to be trying to eliminate unlikely teams within that post, which in turn eliminates possible mislynches if he's mafia. I would like you to answer kita (because it wasn't abundantly clear to me) how you've arrived at Prome as "town". In your analyis post it seemed like you were basically coming around to the idea that Prome wasn't mafia anymore, but without being particularly firm about it as far as I could tell. Did your vote analysis + other people's comments firm up your town read on Prome? Or what? Foolishness case also quite compelling, didn't read too forced, made some sense, so... foolish - was kinda sexually attractive, now in fear of beer goggles. I keep reading his filter because people keep talking about him, and I keep understanding what people are saying, but all his posts now read so natural and not-bad to me :/ I'm shit-scared that i'm wrong but meeeeeh. i'm good enough and, frankly, i have the most recent game experience (last year or two) with foolish out of anyone here. for whatever reason gonzaw is the person i'm most likely to listen to on gonzaw because he seems to approach his alignment in a similar way to me. and gonzaw is starting to think he's scummy... bleh toad - quite ugly. Honestly I'm not understanding any of the rationale put forth by austin on why the slot is particularly townie. Don't get the Holyflare "brainz" thing. I understand to a more limited extent Prome's point on D1 that Holy couldn't be "that terrible" with something he posted if he were scummy, but still meh. I also cannot get over the idea of someone reading through a thread and missing out someone's posts, even as an aid to "save time" because ultimately it doesn't save much time at the time, it doesn't save time in the long run, and it makes other people's posts harder to understand. I can't imagine doing it myself. The case on Wave is weak and again I do not understand austin's rationale of "it's weak in a townie way". No, it's just weak. He's one of my two mafia currently. would kill VE - also quite ugly. I'm so over the woe is me routine. He came back to the thread posting yesterday and I was all like "yay, maybe he's town!" but then he kinda just wandered around listlessly and bitched at stuff. This feels like one of those times someone is being allowed to slip under the radar while people distract themselves with more shiny things. Remember how suspicious people were of VE right post-flip? And yet somehow now, there's nothing... what's warranted this, actually? Nothing... The one thing I'm basically worried is happening with the way things have been going is that Foolish = town, and he's right that lynching into that list would actually win the game for town. So... there has to be a push by mafia (if that would win the game) to lynch outside of that list, and Foolish is the target. In particular this makes me quite paranoid of kita. Nonetheless I think we should go for the best of both worlds and find the MOST suspicious people from Fool's list and lynch them and worry about things if we haven't won by then. In other words, VE/Toad mafia, let's kill them. oh PS, there's also a non-zero chance I won't be around for deadline today, social thingies. Fair warning too | ||
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Seems he's barely been talked about recently and now it's all on Fool (austin seems to be liking it too). Which I thinnnnk is a mistake. | ||
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On January 25 2014 22:00 Promethelax wrote: If we can find four players which contain the two scum we will win. We have two mislynches this game (unbalanced blah blah blah. Rage) and have eliminated four players from being suspect. There are five possible candidates for the lynch so for town to win we have to exonerate a single member of the Kita/fool/WoS/toad/VE group. Which of those do you exonerate? WoS or fool? I don't really get the point of desperately trying to exonerate one player. Just lynch the two mafia. It's not that complicated. | ||
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what are you doing? what stuff doesn't make sense? like my post is literally ordered... ? hoppity hop, i want to go exercise. | ||
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I said clearly at the end we should be lynching into my two mafia reads, VE and toad. My vote is on VE. I said I think Foolishness is town at the moment. You want me to scream at myself in a post or something? I literally just came back and told town what I think we should be doing. This conversation is extremely, extremely dull on your part Prome. Go pour a glass of water over your head or something. WEEEEOH WEEEEEOH. GUISE. LET'S NOT LYNCH FOOL TODAY. LET'S LYNCH VE HUH? COME ON GUISE DO IT. LOOK GUISE COME ON. | ||
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Do you actually agree or disagree with any of the conclusions I made on people/reasons for it? | ||
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I don't really get the utility of asking "if the people you think are scum are not scum, which of the people that you think are town are scum?" It's an essentially pointless way of thinking, because you're framing your thoughts into something that you don't actually believe to be the case. Plan = carry on lynching mafia, should mafia stop being lynched then regroup and find out what's happened. I wouldn't expect town OR scum Holy to make the kind of post that you referenced, so I read it as "???" rather than townie or suspicious. | ||
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On January 26 2014 03:54 gonzaw wrote: The main point VE, is that you "opting out of play" doesn't make absolutely any sense at all, like marv kindly pointed out before. Yes, I kind of went hard against you back on N1. I understand your frustration and "not really wanting to play" at that point. However, I, and other players, gave you a free ride this whole D2. Nobody (except an early vote by Prome and me) voted you. Nobody even discussed you that much. Look at Wave, who we pressured like fuck and called him stupid and retarded. Look at how he even increased his activity, even after that. THAT is how you are supposed to react to pressure as town. Now look at you, you had 1% pressure on you this whole D2. A D2 where we spent most of the time discussing and arguing with Wave, then discussing Toad, then discussing Foolishness. You weren't discussed at all basically. Tell me, what possible reason is there for you to feel demotivated based on that? Hell, we even started to come around at the thought of Foo being scum, the guy you suspected but felt was "off limits" + Show Spoiler + On January 25 2014 02:32 VisceraEyes wrote: Like, I would contribute, but I've been told that my suspects are off limits so I'm kinda at a loss as to what I even CAN do to prove my innocence. Maybe a story? There are absolutely no reasons for you to ragequit right now: -I got off your back -Nobody is even discussing you -Your suspects are not "off-limits" anymore (except Prome) Yet you did. What does that tell us about you? Red v green. Are these reactions the reactions of two people of the same alignment? "I wouldn't do this as scum" - you were in a dreadful position N1 and atm you don't even have the most votes. Looks like a decent plan to me. Mafia just lost a member already day 1 and it made a whole bunch of people look good in the process, I'd be demotivated as fuck as mafia as well. Much easier than trying to actually fight the lynches, play the demotivated card, because, well, being mafia is probably pretty demotivating right now. | ||
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VE you keep talking about how the only thing to do is find mafia, but you keep repeating that like a mantra, and what you've actually done this passage is nothing of the sort, rather you've whimsically thrown your votes around based on incorrect NK wifom. If that's your one goal then... yeah. It just doesn't feel like that's your one goal tbh. Wave I take your point that you aren't VE, I am aware of that :p but still. I'll be back tomorrow | ||
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Feeling hungover+vile from last night, so not gonna play/think much until later, after i forced myself to exercise and clear my system out. 1pm and still in dressing gown + bed :p Quick thoughts I picked up while catching up on the thread for now: On January 26 2014 07:40 Foolishness wrote: In terms of actual connections between I haven't done a thorough analysis to say "these two players could be a likely pair". One thing I did take notice of was that in day 1 Kitaman was pushing hard for sandroba (and voted for sandroba twice during the day). I think this says something because why would Kitaman be drawing so much attention to his obviously semi-inactive mafia teammate (especially on day 1, and especially on a player who is known for being inactive as mafia)? Because of this I don't find Kitaman likely to be mafia with sandroba. . Actually this might be redundant because Fool now apparently changed his mind, but sandroba had zero votes (after i moved off anyway) before gonzaw managed to make a really good push on him. Why are you giving this so much credit? On January 26 2014 07:52 gonzaw wrote: Hmmm.... Well.......maybe we should keep the lynch on VE. Toad, I don't get it: VE basically gave up a long time ago, and I doubt he'll "pick up" and start putting effort. Why would you think reading VE will get any easier? What if he keeps doing nothing and saying he's apathetic and doing the stuff he did this D2? Will you say "Let's keep him around till D4, SURELY it'll be easier to read him by then"? I'm risking going into tunnelvision here, but whatever. I agree with gonzaw's questions essentially. I find this "keep VE around for one more day" really out of place, because there is nothing to suggest, at all, that VE's attitude would change. It's so... murky. That's the 2nd thing that feels really wrong in Toad's filter (the other not reading holy's posts..) On January 26 2014 08:15 Toadesstern wrote: can I answer this? Can I answer this? I got a pie-chart: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7sroMdW.png) I gave in to being a dick... And then this gave me pause. Doesn't really matter how right or wrong it is necessarily (@wave), more that it's at least an interesting and possibly townie way of thinking. I dunno. The issue is that VE = town makes Toad = mafia all the more likely. On January 26 2014 13:12 Foolishness wrote: I'm leaving this thread for the next 24 hours or so. I can't think straight because all my posts are being misconstrued and misused. I also can't make my trademark analysis because you guys keep distracting me and are all focused on the wrong things. I don't know how trustworthy my reads are because I have to dedicate 90% of my time to defending myself, instead of typical games where people ignore me and I spend 90% of the time constructing a flawless analysis. I don't have the confidence to push my reads right now because I feel they would just be spammed away, misconstrued or flat out ignored. I hate this Fool, I really do. Not because of the "i'm not going to play now", I get that. The fact that you post this just as Wave is coming into the thread and starting to interact, post, and talk about things. Your main, massive scumread returns and you afk? Really? On January 26 2014 13:59 gonzaw wrote: I get the feeling, Foo's actions regarding Holy, and now Toad at the end of D2 and the start of this N2, are too "obvious". Perhaps in this sense. I mean, I picked up on them, you picked up on them. Foo knows he'll die at some point. He was the leading lynch on 2 days in a row for christ's sake. Doesn't it make sense for Foo and the scum team to frame a townie like that once scum Foo finally gets lynched? Either way, maybe I'm looking too much into it. Maybe, maybe that "obvious" association is true. Maybe scum Foo is indeed buddies with scum Toad, and Foo is just bad at hiding it. . Fool's interactions with the sand lynch were also "too obvious". Do you think Fool connected himself to his two scumbuddies like that? I said before that Fool has no problem blatantly pushing a mafia agenda, but damn. One last thing that I found myself thinking while I was reading the thread and Fool's posts: Is Foolish mafia or is he seeing something in Wave that I'm not seeing anymore and I'm terrible and he's godlike town or something? Either I'm completely missing something with Wave here or something wonky is going on with this push. | ||
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a) fool talking about how wave is almost certainly mafia b) wave comes in and starts posting about stuff c) fool immediately decides to leave the thread It's something I'll probably check out later but it feels like, in general, there's been a lack of engagement with you on his behalf. | ||
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Partly because of the players in the game (sensible), partly because most of the time mafia ##bigplays are usually borne out of the situation at hand, not pre-planned/done randomly | ||
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That's as far as I'll stretch | ||
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On January 26 2014 22:53 WaveofShadow wrote: Alright 'cause my mind keeps wandering...and I worry that if Fool is town we may lose flat out because it means everyone has had the wrong train of thought all game. Who are your top 2 atm? Without great thought, Toad + Fool. Just lots of people looking townie to me really. The posts from Fool that I read in my catchup made me feel worse about him, not better. Still banking on 2 mafia being in toad+fool+kita, finding it really hard to see any other options. | ||
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On January 26 2014 22:53 WaveofShadow wrote: Alright 'cause my mind keeps wandering...and I worry that if Fool is town we may lose flat out because it means everyone has had the wrong train of thought all game. Who are your top 2 atm? Try me. I can only tell you you're stupid, after all. | ||
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And +1 input is always just good anyways. | ||
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And if it's prome/sand/x, it's just ridiculous that sand came into a delicate thread situation bussing Prome. Doesn't make sense. So, since N1 more or less i guess. I'd add that Prome has kinda afked as town before (## mafia) | ||
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second=Prome, for full derp points. sandroba bussing Prome for no reason in particular, gonzaw makes a case on sand, austin jumps on (as mafia) thinking that a late switch won't happen and fool will get lynched, prome follows hapa for credit (he'll have seen hapa's vote already) Dunno why i played this game :p | ||
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If Prome is mafia in the end, then this game isn't worthy of it's billing :< | ||
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I would say, austin, that some of your last-man-standing type efforts have actually been some of the most unique things I've seen from TL mafia players. So while you may have a sprinkling of a point with your effort thingy, if you're extrapolating from yourself then I'm not sure that's a correct thing to do or expect ^^ I think the only person I've ever see post that many pages in one phase/cycle as mafia is rayn. | ||
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On January 27 2014 07:44 austinmcc wrote: No, I can't go that far. Especially with foolishness also being iffy on alignment at this point, but even if we knew he was town, I'd be less certain than Foolishness and unsure how foolishness can be so certain. I just have a love affair with the unpopular opinion, and so the one guy going "no, there are some legitimate reasons WoS could be/is scum" appeals to me, whereas, even if Gonzaw isn't, there HAVE been posts that purely equate WoS's filter length/effort with townieness. it's a lazy way of saying something. gonzaw gave reasons well enough. You could say "he has a massive filter and that is townie purely for effort". Or you can extrapolate a little and say "he has a massive filter and on balance his posting within this have left me feeling pretty good" or "he has a massive filter and his posts feel townie and i can't see him pushing an agenda" Also in a vacuum, 95% of people who post that much in a phase/cycle are town. Now I pulled that figure right out my ass, but you get the idea. Oddly it's actually one of my weaknesses. rayn in ## was one of the few times i lynched a really active mafia, because in general i tend to find filter length a massive town indicator, and early in games I tend to go for quieter, lurkier scumplayers, and later in games i tend not to be alive. | ||
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On January 27 2014 07:57 gonzaw wrote: Anyways, before the clock hits midnight, you guys have any thoughts about the shit I posted last page? Mostly about that stuff I said about Holy back on D1. Austin, do you still believe it doesn't really matter much? Marv, you used it as a good argument to think Holy was scum, then backed out when he made that "I sub out" post. After reading what I posted again, do you still think it's valid or not? It's perhaps a little less valid given the lynch and who was attacking him and who is/looks town now. But if you took that apart from anything else, it obviously makes toad/holy look worse, not better. Maybe it's happenstance, maybe it means something, but it's definitely not something that can possibly be construed as town. | ||
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On January 27 2014 12:55 kitaman27 wrote: I really wish I had thought to look at how he handles high pressure situations to draw the comparison to day one. bah. Maybe I'll take a look again with this in mind, but it's tough to warrant using the time that way if I'm not getting much return. I don't want to get to the point where I'm spending so much time that this game isn't fun anymore. Database shows 0/19 for town lynches. Fool is 0.5/19, really. I got him "lynched" in Personality 2 on Day 2, other than the fact his role was unlynchable (probably a safe choice, thought the hosts, as Fool never gets lynched as town. Alas). I'm not sure how useful this is though. Short run-down of events was: 1.Fool(town) sets a terrible trap for marv(town) which marv obligingly falls into 2.Fool therefore thinks marv is mafia 3.marv thinks Fool is mafia for using a terrible trap 4.marv&Fool rage at each other while mafia watch on and Fool gets lynched because marv shouts louder I don't think it's that useful because in that case Fool thought his main antagonist was mafia, whereas here there's a few co-antagonists, some of whom at least he thinks are town, apparently. And also I was probably doing a good job of pushing his buttons that game. Fool was pretty calm under pressure in the champions game (as mafia). Going to slowly go over filters today while I'm at work. Normally I just like to play thread-reactive while I'm at work because it's just snippets of time, not sure how useful that is today tho (or who will be around anyways) | ||
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On January 24 2014 08:45 Toadesstern wrote: There's no reason to do that despite actually thinking that the Prom lynch is tons better. Sounds very much like a (little bit) paranoid guy who's trying to get the best possible lynch he's seeing. Take into consideration that people were voting him as well and I see no reason for him to ever post like this.[as mafia (marv)] On January 25 2014 07:45 Toadesstern wrote: He did mention BOTH Holy (aka me) and Sandro early, really early and he has been going on about it + Show Spoiler [example] + On January 23 2014 06:59 Foolishness wrote: Yes Yes As I said, my posts always accomplish something (besides the one I posted before this cause you guys frustrate me to no end). You want to run wild theories that's fine by me, but I'm pretty sure you find less mafia than I do. Yes, HolyFlare lynch is good. I find that post to be the prime example of this to be honest. So he thinks Sandro is mafia and very clearly states so, but doesn't vote him, he thinks marv is mafia, he thinks Holy is mafia and I guess he was on prome around that time already? That just doesn't make sense to me and yeah like you said he completly and utterly dropped both Holy and Sandro later on like nothing happened. Marv and Prom are understandable because they voted Sand but the Sand and Holy drops are weird. Could you tell me how your attitude towards the same post morphed so remarkably? It literally went from "i don't see how mafia can post this" to "this is a prime example (of something scummy) and this doesn't make sense to me" | ||
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Going through Fool next when I can steal a chunk of time anyways. Nothing bad on coming around on anyone, as long as it's for the right reasons. We need to get today right really. At any rate I think it's reasonably obvious from all the holes that people have been poking that Fool's analysis isn't really "flawless". Whether that makes him scum is obviously a different matter. Came out of Toad's filter less sure than I'd like, seems he's gained more impetus as the game went on after a really weak start, but there's a sprinkling of wtf posts in there as well. He needs to answer my questions anyways. | ||
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Prome is definitely being particularly smelly recently. | ||
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On January 25 2014 09:35 Foolishness wrote: Secnario 2 Foolishness is Mafia Promethelax is town This is the only scenario out of the three that the town should be worried about as I didn't want to switch to sandroba and even said so straight up (the reason I didn't want to was because I saw Marv move his vote and I was really sketchy about him at the time. I didn't like what I was seeing last minute and I got super scared it was just town derp switching onto another town). But as I pointed out in my earlier posts what is the mafia doing the entirety of day 1 when I'm accumulating votes? As gonzaw pointed out this would only make sense if the entire mafia team (but myself) is afk (so like, HolyFlare also mafia). Furthermore, if I'm mafia and Promethelax is town, then wtf is up with sandroba's vote 30 minutes before the deadline? His post wasn't a mafia post trying to save his buddy, that was a mafia pushing what he perceived to be a safe lynch to make his team look pretty for the future days after I flip town or Promethelax flips town. I think it is even more apparent through the entirety of day 1 as a whole. Where is my mafia team to save me? Are they just afk (we all know mafia games on TL are never that easy)? The only one trying to deflect votes off of me was me. Sure, kitaman and austin both said I was town, but there was never a hard push. It seemed like their attitude was, "yeah Foolishness is town I'm sure, but I got nothing better to propose". Kitaman's push on Promethelax was mediocre at best (in terms of aggressiveness, not content). I was 100% on my own for all of day 1. Secnario 4 Foolishness is Town Promethelax is Town I brought this up before, but go back and read sandroba's case on Promethelax. After sandroba's vote both Promethelax and I had 3 votes apiece (if I'm not mistaken here). Mafia were very very very happy with the votes at this time. Town Foolishness is under scrutiny and about to get lynched, and second in line is another town who Foolishness (apparently well-known scumhunter) is 100% convinced is mafia. Wow find me a happier mafia team on day 1 in a normal or all-vanilla game. Sandroba was not throwing his vote down to save someone or push for any lynch. Mafia were happy with who was getting lynched that day and there was no need to do anything about it. So these are the two scenarios we're working with effectively. At least in the first scenario, there's some stretching going on there. Specifically to the bolded middle paragraph - if Fool is mafia, then presumably sandroba is going to come in and vote Promethelax over Foolishness. His assertion "His post wasn't a mafia post trying to save his buddy" he uses on the flipside in the 2nd scenario too (see bold). So it kinda comes down a little bit to sandroba's posts around then. What was sand doing? A fake push? A real vote? Given how awful sandroba is at mafia, I don't see much reason why his voting for Prome wasn't "authentic" - I mean, he actually went and found a quote from a different game and everything, for sand that's quite the effort... it seems that the assumptions that Fool is pushing at us collapse around here. Underlined stuff more for irritation value - kita being on prome and sticking there (also despite voting sand before) and Holy being afk. They both fit with a mafia Fool. Annoyingly doesn't get us so far. | ||
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On January 26 2014 07:40 Foolishness wrote: No, WoS turn around on Promethelax is not congruent with a town mindset, and this is what I meant by he's ignoring key information about the lynch. That is a mafia agenda to push, he doesn't want to bring light to the things the day 1 votes say (such as the 5 people voting for sandroba should be confirmed town). Fool, what's the point in Wave doing this as mafia when literally noone agreed with him and it just made him stick out from the crowd? | ||
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On January 26 2014 07:43 Foolishness wrote: Let me clarify again that I am perfectly happy with VE getting lynched. I just have a strong read on WoS and VE's frustration makes sense as a town frame of mind. When you say things like, "VE didn't push a lynch day 1, he wasn't accomplishing anything with his posts, he has since been not contributing" I have nothing to say except, "yep, I agree". I am not deflecting off his lynch, I just think WoS is slightly better and will tell us more. If you guys are convinced that VE needs to die now and that WoS is town I will gladly ablige; I've even admitted I could be wrong on both accounts. On January 26 2014 07:58 Foolishness wrote: Yes I did. I thought Holy was mafia based on his posts and his replacement posts. After the lynch I went back and reread them and thought "okay I can see him as town saying these things even if they are suspect". As I said earlier I go back and forth on his posts. Toad seems like he's trying to figure things out, and even if I don't agree with his arguments he's doing things for the town and VE is not. I can't argue against VE here. I'm very confident about my read on WoS at this point, it will be reevaluated for the following day because he should be lynched asap. This is so so wonky | ||
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On January 26 2014 09:45 Foolishness wrote: Gonzaw I'm not answering or responding to anything you say until you answer my question to you: On January 26 2014 09:47 Foolishness wrote: And I'd suggest you answer that question very carefully. This is even wonkier though, seems like Fool is threatening gonzaw, or gonzaw is suspicious, or something? But then immediately following these posts Fool is treating gonzaw as town again. What do you make of this Wave? (or anyone about who cares to read) None of Fool's recent posting reads like it comes from a townie, from his intransigence on the Wave read (along with the rationale), to the being ok but not ok but ok with the VE lynch, to being sure about Wave but saying he might be wrong, to the weird threats to gonzaw. I am frowning. | ||
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On January 28 2014 00:44 kitaman27 wrote: For someone who says that every post of his has a purpose, those were pretty useless. If they were addressed towards austin. you or myself, then I'd wouldn't mind it as much, but if he is still suspicious of gonzaw by day three, then he isn't paying attention. marv, where do you stand on the final two mafia? I feel like you have been on the fence for a while. I know I'm guilty of the same thing, but I feel like another perspective may help. Is austin still on your untouchable list? Same question for austin, is marv still untouchable? The reason I'm asking is because we're potentially once cycle away from lylo. Out of the prom, austin, marv group, it seems like Prom has been the least helpful this game, but I'm still having a tough time thinking how a double bus makes sense with him and sandroba. Yep I'm somewhat fence-sitty right this moment, gonna be until at least after I look at your dense filter (will do that after chess, got work stuffs atm to commit that much time). Fool+Toad is where i'm sitting. Not 100% confident in either so maybe trying to eliminate outliers will help... namely you. I'd still be very surprised if Prome was mafia. If he is then mafia did some #retardplays day 1, and i don't think they're retards. Finding it hard to believe austin could be mafia as well. His paranoia-levels regarding me seem to be pitched just right. We have a history and I think how he's treated me in general is super hard to fake. I've not been frowning when he's been niggling at me. We've had one unfortunate lynch, don't really want to throw away everything I've thought about and believed up until now when there are still actual likely mafia on the table. | ||
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If Fool and Wave don't make sense to you as a team, than presumably by mutual exclusion one of them has to be town, but you're still suspicious of both by the looks of things. So which is it? And if kita is the common factor between both of them, why aren't you pushing kita as confirmed mafia? | ||
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On January 28 2014 01:33 kitaman27 wrote: I think that's the most likely pair right now, but there is some degree of distancing between the two. Toad is attacking Foolishness, while Foolishness wants to bring Toad to lylo. I'll need to see if it seems likely that Toad is pushing the Foolishness lynch with the hopes of winning a 2v1 endgame, if he is town and has a legitimate scum read on Fool, or if he is mafia with another player that we're overlooking. At one point foolishness argues that we shouldn't consider lynching sandroba, while Holy is still around. Do you think it makes sense to attack one inactive scum buddy, while defending the other, which could be a risk if the wrong one flips first? Or is it more likely that he simply doesn't see Holy flipping that cycle after the replacement has been announced so he feels safe doing so? I think we just need to find one mafia and lynch it. Combinations can help to a degree, but we should give less weight to interactions that happened post D1. When mafia gets lynched D1 and a bunch of people look good for it, scum are likely going to have to be unconventional to a degree, and part of that is potentially funky interactions with each other. Just generally wrt replacements, TL towns almost never lynch replacements the phase they replace in. | ||
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P.S i won for a change \o/ | ||
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A scum will have read teh scum qt and, therefore, some form of the thoughts of the man he is replacing and lying unnecessarily is chump play as scum. you literally provide evidence of how it is possible for a mafia player not to have read his predecessor's posts, and then say it screams town. Can you see that? | ||
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On January 23 2014 05:10 kitaman27 wrote: The part of Foolishness's play that makes him most likely to be mafia this game is his disregard for his town image. Even in the games where he is a slow starting townie, he still puts a priority on avoiding the day one mislynch by making it clear that he is town. He has never been mislynched as town, so allowing this to happen in a shadow game would be seem to be out of character. I think it's pretty likely that he hasn't checked back since his last large post, so I'm not sure I'm willing to come to the conclusion that he doesn't care, rather than assuming he isn't around. I do believe that it was PTP2 where he simply disappeared and we flipped him on day 2, leaving us pretty underwhelmed, so it's not out of the question. kita, how do you feel about this line of thinking at this stage of the game? | ||
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Anything more specific on austin? | ||
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I think the sum of it is, we need to kill Fool today, so let's do it. He's easily the most suspicious. ##Vote: Foolishness | ||
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On January 28 2014 10:10 kitaman27 wrote: Mafia generally don't plan to be afk, they kinda just get lazy and stop posting. valid. And pretty sure austin has said in the past he can be like that (he'll probably verify himself). But meeeeh. | ||
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On January 28 2014 10:28 WaveofShadow wrote: Foolishness, are you going to tell us that the second scum is marv? yes, he is, and I want to know pretty sharpish why he's not putting me on the table given he clearly hints at that in numerous places. If it weren't for sheer effort alone this looks like scumclaiming. | ||
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It's 5 (fool) 3 (prome) 2(sand) when I jump off Fool to sand, and Prome follows sometime after to help secure the lynch on sand (give or take hapa) Why at 5 3 2 am I moving across exactly? | ||
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as is my ability to stay awake much longer when i must go to bed | ||
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On January 28 2014 10:57 kitaman27 wrote: Regardless of his read on you, what do you think about his thoughts on Prom? They look fine. Mostly everything looks fine. The issue is, the conclusions are wrong. The voting that I showed makes no sense whatsoever. As for Prome's meta, there are two pretty important things. One is that he's had time issues this game. Now I'm sure if he's mafia blabla he may have just avoided the thread in general, but not like this, and Prome is 100% not the kind of guy that would ever lie about time issues with work. He just isn't. The 2nd, major issue that Fool has (purposefully?) not taken into account is Prome's ego. Prome's ego is large, somewhat justifiably so. This isn't an insult, just an observation. In every game he plays, he considers himself one of the top townies. And he acts like it. Go look at PyP LoL postgame (or there's some other thread where he says it) - he's bigging himself up for being awesome there and he's annoyed that he wasn't given enough credit for it. Now, in relation to this game - yes, his ego is large. But he's not an idiot, and he's well aware that in this field, he is, for a change, one of the smaller fish. He's definitely referenced that in the thread, probably both pre-game and post-game. This will affect his "swagger" quite considerably, in that he looks up to most of the players here, rather than down, like he normally does. So he's more unsure, he's more willing to listen (example that post that Fool quotes where Prome is trusting gonzaw's read on sand). It's a large, missing piece of this read. | ||
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On January 28 2014 15:02 Foolishness wrote: I am here, what questions do you have? I didn't see you really ask me anything. Are you serious? Literally just read what people wrote since your essays, not sure how you could miss questions... | ||
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On January 28 2014 10:29 Promethelax wrote: Well since you don't have me in the bag I would suggest you re think this one as well. But you know, don't take my word on it I'm scum. You were going to filter Foolish when you got home...? | ||
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Probably because he knows he cannot go 1v1 with me and needs to secure a mislynch on a weaker/easier target (you've been away a butt-ton). We're in a 2 mafia situation, not a 1 mafia, which was running through my head last night - probably Fool just wants to secure one mislynch for whoever his buddy is, rather than going down immediately. In a 1 mafia situation his move would suicidal The stuff on kita was more compelling than the stuff on Holy/toad. e.g. he picked a bunch of quotes from a scumgame where Holy trolled town because he was bored (Back to the basics) rather than scumgames where he tryharded (LXIII or Hogwarts) | ||
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Fun fact: Foolish accuses you of leaving me out of your big reads post like a scummy scummer, and he fails to mention austin once in any of his big posts there. Huh! D1: that fits if afk-holy is mafia, doesn't it? | ||
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And i have zero idea who trusts who to be a lylo player, i don't think that really pays to think about. | ||
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On January 28 2014 21:16 Promethelax wrote: So you don't see toad as having his same "+1,I'm part of the team. Ooooh pick me pick me" attitude that comes in his town games when he really wants to be playing four square with the cool kids but isn't quite? no, not really. | ||
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On January 28 2014 21:17 WaveofShadow wrote: You guys are assuming that marv is his secomndary and I am his (tertiary) target when he bever states that anywhere in his recent posts I wanted to hear that stuff from him to try and get a read rather than have people put words in his mouth---now he may get all defensive about it which might convolute a read Not that I have time to read much today really Partly why it's shit, he's never explicit. He does implicate me several times in the Prome post alone, though, and later on he talks in terms of Prome or WoS, especially here: On January 28 2014 10:13 Foolishness wrote: What if Promethelax is town? I read your analysis but I'm not convinced cause *insert silly reason here*! That likely means I'm wrong on WoS. Going through the possibilities I felt confident that one of WoS or Promethelax is mafia (and figuring out which one would be the key to figuring out the game). The case on him is incredibly strong though. As I said above, the case on WoS lacks substance even if I can find some things that are bad. With Promethelax there is no doubt and all the proof is right there. "One of WoS or Prome is mafia" | ||
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On January 28 2014 21:22 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh yeah I guess it does kinda. And marv I know you were implicitly indicated but I wanted to see if hed actually meant you or go for austin Yeah. So he goes balls out for Prome, and has the "2nd mafia in the bag", but despite being away for 24+ hours and after those posts will probably be away for another 12-20 hours or something when the cycle is due to finish this evening, he's not giving us that extra information? To what end? Just serves to confuse. | ||
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it was just weirdly worded. | ||
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If we're playing this game, why don't you do the same for me with... well gosh, who? | ||
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On January 28 2014 23:28 Promethelax wrote: This is why the thread cop thing bothers me the most. Because he said that being a thread cop wasn't appropriate and then went ahead and did it anyway you mean? Why does that = mafia? | ||
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On January 28 2014 23:33 Promethelax wrote: How do you justify Holyflare scum when he KEPT bringing up how we should lynch Sand for being inactive? Sorry let me go find those votes and pushes Holy made to get sandroba lynched instead of just repeating the idea in the midst of other posts ... er ... hmm. | ||
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On January 28 2014 23:36 Promethelax wrote: Yeah but Holyflare is the weakest member of this game and, as you said on scumcast episode 3 newer/weaker players often don't know how to push lynches and look objectively scummy because they are wishy washy and bad. Holy may be a smaller fish, but he's still in this game. What were the *results* of Holyflare talking about sandroba? Where's the vote? Who's convinced? | ||
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On January 28 2014 23:46 Promethelax wrote: Why if HF's play likelier town? HF played weakly and his scum play is strong. Therefore his weak play is more likely to be town. I imagine he was somewhat intimidated by the playerlist. Lord knows I was. Why is it idiotic to call out both your scum buddies the same way as likely town for shit posting? Because jesus, once one of those guys flips we look back and go "oh hey look X said Y and Z were town for the same shitty reason. I bet X was full of shit, lets lynch Y and Z" Townies never say this. Because of the reasons you're bitching about. They think "oh we got the mafia from that part of the list" wifomwifomwifom | ||
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On January 28 2014 23:48 kitaman27 wrote: Is the rest of the case valid to the point where you like it more than the case against toad? I don't think so. Although I've been a little bit tunnelvisioned on toad, which is part of the reason maybe. The post that Prome points out of austin waffling about Fool is kinda nasty. Mostly it's that i think prome is being dumb with that particular bit of reasoning. Tell me what you think, kita. Any issues I have with austin are of a more recent nature, regarding his activity/pushes. He was late to deciding on anything on day 1, which is fine, because he's right,he does always play like that. But he was late committing anything on day 2 as well (VE when VE was basically dead already) and he's late doing anything today. I swear he had the same length of filter as me at some point. | ||
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On January 29 2014 00:02 austinmcc wrote: marv, how do you connect prome's ego with the non-committal/committal stuff in foolishness's case? Just feeling like player caliber is high makes him less sure of things? yeah. Like Fool posts 3 posts of Promes with red stuff highlighted. First one is Prome's opinion, and the 2nd two look like Prome just weighing up gonzaw's read heavily because he trusts (+ respects) him. Prome might as well answer that thought process himself to be fair. | ||
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ref: the activity/prome thing. Prome said x and y posts felt off amongst the sea of posts that felt good. As mafia he could just blanketly say "activity = good, yea bros?",... but he's mindful of a couple of posts he's seen still. That he doesn't have to point out if he's scum if he's making a blanket townread on activity. You're painting this as if there's only one plausible narrative | ||
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Fool mafia. Prome town. Final answer. Gogo lynch. | ||
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You're being irked because you're being silly even though you're the only one who thinks this is actually particularly important. Why? | ||
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IF someone has, say, 100 good posts and 2 posts, which do you highlight? Or maybe do you say "gosh there's a bunch of good posts, but these are the 2 exceptions"? | ||
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On January 29 2014 02:33 austinmcc wrote: Grrr, I'm bad at putting full reasoning into posts this game. The above post should include, in the paragraph about "so it's extra irksome..." that VE saw what I was seeing concerning the first thing I was poking at prome on. Sandroba didn't. I'm interested in whether people are seeing what I'm talking about in the second thing I'm poking at prome on. If, in both cases, townies are at least SEEING what I'm getting at, even if come to a different conclusion/think I'm overvaluing something, then it looks bad for you that you're saying each time you just don't care in either case and don't understand why I do. I sincerely wish I found it as interesting as you and VE seem to :p I see, I find not that interesting, I know Prome. etc. | ||
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And I was referring to the Prome-WoS-townread thing, rather than anything else. | ||
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On January 29 2014 05:18 Foolishness wrote: Yes I did that on purpose. I made no mention of Austin anywhere in my posts yet Austin looks like he's taking the information I provided and is trying to draw conclusions, while Marv is just trying to debunk everything I say (instead of say, analyzing the Promethelax case and looking for connections to the last mafia). Austin knows he's innocent so he didn't read at all into the fact that his name wasn't mentioned, because that wasn't on his mind. Marv noticed it in particular because he knows he's guilty. Come on baby, you're really stretching. This doesn't even make sense. | ||
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On January 29 2014 05:33 Foolishness wrote: Sure, and I understand that. I didn't really have much room to work with on that front. But on the page after I posted my analysis Marv makes this post: Read this post carefully and you'll realize that there's something wrong. This is not a Marv town post. In particular I feel that his first three sentences show that he's mafia. He says: "They look fine. Mostly everything looks fine. The issue is, the conclusions are wrong." How can the analysis be right but the conclusions be wrong? That's saying, "oh Foolishness you're right, Promethelax is not playing his town game, definitely is pushing a mafia agenda, does not care about the town lynches and only his survival, he has the really bad vote posts which shows that he's pushing an agenda....but he's town". What?!? That's not a town way of thinking at all. If a town looks at my post about Promethelax and disagrees with it he's going to point out the flaws in my logic: "actually his voting could have been from a town perspective because X and Y" or "that Promethelax post could have come from town Promethelax because look at his other town games where he did something similar". Something to that effect. A town isn't going to look at that and be like, "yup, Foolishness does perfect analysis except he drew the wrong conclusions". Even so, why is Marv going out of his way to defend Promethelax? The thoughts don't line up. I'd guess he'd start making connections between Promethelax and other players ("well I know I'm town and Foolishness's analysis looks pretty good so gotta find the remaining mafia") or just defend himself ("well I know I'm town and Foolishness is implying that I'm the last mafia. I can prove my innocence so something is wrong here"). Perhaps these are wifom arguments, but Marv's line of thinking is not consistent. And to address what he said here, sure it's a good point to make about Promethelax's ego. But that can only explain so much. That doesn't address why he's not interested in the town lynches, why he made a strange list without incriminating anyone (and why Marv wasn't on that list). Second, if Promethelax does have an ego I'd expect him to vote for who he thinks is mafia above all instead of going with Gonzaw. This is the townmarviest post of all townmarvy posts actually. What you're doing is accusing me of defending someone I don't think is scum from someone I think is scum. How is that even an argument? You know very well that arguments can look good but come to the wrong conclusion or miss out vital pieces of evidence. It's stretching my credulity that you're even suggesting that this doesn't happen quite a lot, especially with good players. Things can be logical, things can make sense, but usually there is more than one possible explanation. In this case, you missed out a large piece of the puzzle, re: Prome's attitude towards this game and his ego. The fact you're trying to paint that as *me* being suspicious because I'm correctly poking holes in your case is ridiculous. Essentially this entire post is totally incorrect. | ||
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Option 1) Make 2 towncases, one on someone who MAY get lynched, one who's not even on the table to be lynched Option 2) Make mafia case on the 2nd mafia who is "in the bag" Hum | ||
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On January 29 2014 06:20 WaveofShadow wrote: Is foolishness known for making towncases? Be honest. Although considering his towncases and mafiacases have flipped exactly in this game I don't even know what anymore. KISS says foolishness should have been lynched twice so we lynch him. To some degree I also want to say KISS says the effort he put in with his essays makes him town but the WAY in which those were done makes me say no. Vote stays Usually Foolish is quite happy to tell people in some detail why he thinks people are town. But he's done so at such great length and at the expense of making a case against me. That's just not right. Foolish didn't have a chance of mislynching Promethelax today if he also included a case against me that I would tear apart. It's really that simple. | ||
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On January 29 2014 06:25 WaveofShadow wrote: I really hate austins sudden townread. Did you read what I wrote? yes, it's odd as shit and making me reconsider toad+austin, but I can worry about that post-flip | ||
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Without PC now for some hours, will try to phonepost (i'm terrible at it) | ||
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Kinda disappointed that was the best angle you could find to take fool. shrug. | ||
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On January 29 2014 06:56 austinmcc wrote: Don't read the votes then. Read marv's comments on Sandroba D1, and his comments on Foolishness D1. Then tell me if you understand why I would ask him about that vote when he tells me to vote the strongest scumread. Again, why are you comparing day 1 to day 3? They aren't the same | ||
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On January 29 2014 06:57 kitaman27 wrote: Suppose we had a hypothetical situation where I wouldn't want to lynch Prom, but I'd consider marv. Otherwise, I'd vote foolishness. Show of hands, who would support that and who would oppose it? Brb, 45 mins. Would not support D: What's wrong with ppls | ||
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Are you being purposefully obtuse? You can find plenty of games of mine where I day 1 shenannie. No games where I am not voting my strongest read day 3. It's exceptionally simple to understand | ||
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On January 29 2014 07:31 Foolishness wrote: It's called "behavior analysis" not "bus analysis" for a reason. You didn't do any on me. This is why you're so full of bs. | ||
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On January 29 2014 07:31 WaveofShadow wrote: Marv if fool flips town will you lynch prome tomorrow? Not seeing that as a possibility right now. This is all too ridiculous. | ||
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On January 29 2014 07:43 Foolishness wrote: Hopefully someone else can finish it up. But the summary of it is: 1) Posts have more content when you're town. By that I mean your posts always say or do something. When you're mafia you have more "fluffy" posts. You'll comment on something or give out an idea, but without directly saying or accomplishing anything. 2) Posts are more direct when you're town. Let's be honest, you're marvellosity, and you're known for lynching scum, bitches, and VE. When you're town you make it happen, you don't sit around and wait for someone else to take up the reins. As mafia you're less direct and you wait for someone else to start something before jumping in. Who's been pushing the most today?? Cmon. | ||
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On January 29 2014 07:54 austinmcc wrote: (3) townmarv doesn't ask questions with obvious and irrelevant answers like "you know that brainz thing is useless" (4) Repeats the second half of (2) but bolded, marv has been VERY backseatish this game, and even has noted once or twice that he might need to take control of things, yet he never actually does. Even when arguing the prome v foolishness lynch today, he's happy to just comment and argue, but he never really tries to impose his will on this lynch. (5) I really hope that I'm seeing things correctly today Am I in a different day 3 to everyone else? Who else has been pushing shit today like I have? | ||
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On January 29 2014 09:15 WaveofShadow wrote: Fuck today, we lynch town and my car won't fucking start so I have to leave it in the parking lot and deal with it tomorrow. No wait fuck being demoralized, we're going to win this game. No excuses. Hey marv, y u no lead town? Will probably do some analysis and stuff later but now I gotta eat some delicious stew. go away Wave. Dunno why Foolish was pushing his bullcrap on me. Don't suppose I can steal kita's mercy kill :x | ||
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Prome, where the fuck were you this time? Thinking about you as mafia is suddenly making me feel all dirty. On January 29 2014 11:06 WaveofShadow wrote: As second place scum you should be concerned about me. Everybody else was concerned about the entire scumteam. Do you understand why this looks so dodgy to me? You are making excuses and trying to pass your scumread off as 'not really a legit read because it doesn't matter but maybe I would have lynched you.' Which is just hilarious given the ONE THING that austin decided Prome was mafia for. | ||
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On January 29 2014 07:25 austinmcc wrote: Agreed. I'm behaving oddly for either alignment this game, but I know that today has been really off for my towngame. Yeah... just... mm. Can you explain why at all austin? This is more so it's here for me to muse on when I feel like it at some point. Easier to do mechanical work when your mojo is slightly deflated :p On January 23 2014 07:38 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Vote Count - Deadline at Wednesday, Jan 22 10:59pm GMT (GMT+00:00) Foolishness (4): VisceraEyes, gonzaw, WaveofShadow, Promethelax, Promethelax (4): Foolishness, Kitaman27, Sandroba, Hapahauli, Sandroba (1): marvellosity, Kitaman27 (0): WaveOfShadow (0): HolyFlare (0): Hapahauli (0): VisceraEyes (0): Not voted (2): Austinmcc, HolyFlare If you notice a mistake, please let us know! Currently Foolishness is set to be lynched for reaching 4 votes first. On January 23 2014 07:48 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Vote Count - Deadline at Wednesday, Jan 22 10:59pm GMT (GMT+00:00) Foolishness (6): VisceraEyes, gonzaw, WaveofShadow, Promethelax, marvellosity, Hapahauli, Promethelax (3): Foolishness, Kitaman27, Sandroba, gonzaw (1): HolyFlare Sandroba (0): Kitaman27 (0): WaveOfShadow (0): HolyFlare (0): Hapahauli (0): VisceraEyes (0): Not voted (1): Austinmcc If you notice a mistake, please let us know! Currently Foolishness is set to be lynched. On January 23 2014 08:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Please stop posting. Final Vote Count - Deadline at Wednesday, Jan 22 10:59pm GMT (GMT+00:00) Sandroba (5): gonzaw, austinmcc, marvellosity, Hapahauli, Promethelax, Promethelax (3): Foolishness, Kitaman27, Sandroba, Foolishness (2): VisceraEyes, WaveofShadow, gonzaw (1): HolyFlare Kitaman27 (0): WaveOfShadow (0): HolyFlare (0): Hapahauli (0): VisceraEyes (0): Not voted (0) If you notice a mistake, please let us know! Sandroba is set to be lynched. | ||
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On January 29 2014 20:55 Promethelax wrote: I did. His and marv's were both scummy. Sand is a detriment to his team. When he is up against two townies in me and foolishness you need to make sure you look good from his flip because it will come d1 or d2. So quick switching around deadline when I had clearly had foolish as more scummy and Hapa wasn't present was an easy way to do that. Scum expected not to get sand lynched d1 but to look good from having voted him but Hapa and I went over in the last two minutes and scum could not change their votes, they were stuck on sand. The middle votes were scummy. On top of that the scum shots have all been into the group of players who voted sand to reinforce the idea that everyone on that vote was town. Shooting outside of it would have been fine to eliminate players like Kita who had no suspicion on him and is a better analyst than Gonzaw. But they needed the idea of fool's to take hold. Voting mafia on day 1 definitely scummy. Got it. To the bold: so if I'm mafia, I'm making a massive gamble that neither Hapa NOR Prome NOR VE (in your scenario) will move over after what sand had posted? That's a bit of a stretch isn't it? | ||
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Comments like this aren't helping. | ||
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On January 29 2014 21:10 Promethelax wrote: Two scenerios 1. Scummarv -you know based on me not being your buddy in your role pm 2. Townmarv -you know because you know me and my play and I'm clearly town this game Either way you know. Which is fun because either you are town and will defend me from a lynch or you are scum and you have to pretend to defend me from a lynch because you know town you would. You overestimate either me, yourself, or you misunderstand the state of the game, if you think I have reason to be confident of your alignment right now my friend. And I don't like that you're pushing this at me. | ||
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Snippets from the case: I see this as being a scum player trying to change his day1 town play for something else and excusing it in the thread unnecessarily. This post so gloriously misunderstands what I said that it cannot come from town. Austin fluffs hard for a while d1 when Fool and Sand are being brought up a lot. He spends most of day one talking about how I am scum and about random fluff like marv's love of tentacles. One of those things is productive, the other is a lot of effort put into looking casual. You can have issues with the case, but not because he wasn't looking individually at you or your alignment, that's wrong. One interesting thing about the case is that he goes from This is just a side note but if Fool is scum this post is scum as shit. It is very directly trying to remove discussion from Fool. I can hear the chainsaw revving in the background. to This seems to point against a fool/sand/austin team. I don't see fool (a not bad player) lumping his two scum budddies together in this way. This is simply not how a scum refers to all of their team during d1 when two scum players are under suspicion. I'm quite curious to hear how you view the 2 quotes as a thought process or whatever, austin. | ||
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kita: alright, will do. just popping in pre-exercise at the moment though. I do remember finding a quote from Prome's filter at some stage that made it seem quite unlikely to me that Prome was mafia with Holyflare(toad) though. I think you even commented on it. | ||
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Sadly there's 0 chance I get shot now, so I'll play hard next cycle. My one phobia is snakes. Ew. We need to really properly talk at some point tomorrow austin (on the not particularly dangerous assumption we'll still both be here :p), I need to see what your thoughts on me are really made of. | ||
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And yeah, I never came back with a firm read on you. Mainly because I'd start looking at you and not really find what I was looking for (whatever that was) I'm not really sure what you're suggesting my angle is here... keeping my options open or something? when most people see you as much townier than I was seeing you? That doesn't really work. Fool's towncase really finally firmed up my read on you. Did a really cursory check of what he suggested and he made strong points. At the time I thought he included the towncase on you to look legit while he pushed other bad arguments on Prome and Toad. | ||
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Again with the stuff on Holy/Toad, it seemed like he was purposefully picking out trolly comments from back to the basics to try to make holy look town here, even though holy had properly tryharded in other scumgames like lxiii and hogwarts. i couldn't find those 'holes' in the kita analysis. Maybe just because I know holy and prome better than i know kita, i don't know. | ||
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On January 30 2014 07:58 kitaman27 wrote: I suppose I'll take that over Foolishness's proof that I'm mentally insane -_- ha gg kita. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On January 30 2014 02:59 kitaman27 wrote: Re: sandroba's vote on Prom day one. The biggest reason that I was hesitant on my suspicion of Prom after pushing him on day one was the 3-3 vote by sandroba. I saw marv mention that sandroba wasn't a player that likes to bus and I kinda assumed it was true as I didn't spend the time to verify this was true. I spent time looking at how sandroba addresses scum buddies at the beginning of the game with the "@" symbol and didn't come to any conclusions, but I never looked at his early game voting record. I'm pretty upset with myself considering what I have found: sandroba and L are scum buddies this game. Provides no case, but votes for his scum buddy sinani. Scum buddies with Fishball in a 2 player game. Votes him on day one without much of a case and shows he is willing to take risks early. Day one vote against his scum buddy. No case, limited time from sandroba. There is a dt check on RoL here, but votes are coming in on the dt instead, yet sandroba votes his buddy. Look at sandroba's explanation for his day two bus on his scum buddy annul. This sounds incredibly similar to this game. Not only is sandroba willing to bus early, he actually does it more often than not! | ||
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His, imo, unreasonably strong townread on Toad/Holy based on almost nothing. His attack on Prome for a really weird reason that still no-one has agreed with, and yet for some reason he's particularly suspicious of me for not agreeing with it. The fact he's always come in super-late to push any lynch, on every single day so far. His 100% absurd attack on me for when I said "vote your strongest read" when in context it was fucking obvious I was talking about day 3. I clarified and he continued the attack on the same basis. It's totally absurd that he's really trying to catch me out for being "hypocritical" for day 1 reads and voting compared to day 3 actions. Anyways, tell me what you're seeing that makes you confident in his alignment, plox. | ||
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I just don't fully buy marv's suspicions and his vote swapping on D1 at the deadline and marv making a comment about voting your strongest scum suspect triggers me poking around that. It's not 1:1, with "but foolishness was your strongest suspect and yet you voted sandroba." That's not valid. But i think that marv's D1 is wonky and his strongest suspect comment set me off. This is nonsensical. | ||
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On January 29 2014 20:28 Promethelax wrote: We lynch austin tomorrow. This is not even a debate. He had a scummy switch to sand d1 he has played under the radar. He was the only vote not on foolishness d3. Austin's behaviour has been scummy the only reason he wasn't scum is that he and fool were not scum together. How does the bolded relate to the last part of the sentence just before? Why is it scummy anyway? imo the only thing potentially scummy about the vote is that he left it so late in the cycle to get biking. Particularly the really weak justification for austin+Fool not being mafia together is unbelievably convenient now that Fool has flipped town. | ||
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The reasons for Prome's Wave townread is the thing I'm talking about. | ||
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On January 31 2014 01:10 austinmcc wrote: Why do WoS and Toad find prome scummy? Do you agree with them/either of them? That can go on the list, please. If you're not mafia, one of them is, and maybe this is a spot where one of them looks funky. You've done well at listening at the funky things Toad has done this game up to this point haven't you dear. | ||
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On January 31 2014 01:19 austinmcc wrote: I don't know if you read thug life or not. I dunno how closely you read LXIII while hosting. But I have had very good luck recently calling people town, often for strange reasons, and being correct. In most of those cases, it's not about the sum total of what happens, it's about a specific thing or couple things someone did, how they posted. I'm going to trust I'm right for now on this one. You don't have to. But at the very least, this is something that has proven to work out, on the whole, well for me, so I'll stick with it until it doesn't. If we end up lynching Prome and he's mafia + you're town, we're gonna be in trouble at LYLO if you won't consider that your funky shit can't be wrong sometimes. The ironic thing being if you're mafia it makes Toad more likely to be town. And yes, I know you do this kinda funky stuff as town. For 95%+ of players a defence of someone like you've been doing reeks of "I know his alignment", but with you, not so much. | ||
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On January 31 2014 01:25 austinmcc wrote: And if nothing else, kita has posted a "compelling" bit on sandroba's mafia play that implicates prome, or negates any argument that prome isn't mafia b/c sandroba. Foolishness has posted on prome. VE posted on prome. There are a variety of D1/N1 things on prome. If prome is mafia (fo sho), then toad and I can't BOTH be scum. So either I'm TOWN, and maybe wrong on toad, but legitimately think I'm right, or I'm MAFIA, and toad is town, and so I'm right even if it's for stupid reasons, and it should just make me look scummy. But we're not both scum. Mmhmm. I will go back and read all these things. That definitely comes before any combinatrics shizzle. | ||
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Think about it from my perspective. Some dude is telling me not to worry so much about who I want to lynch today because some dudes think I'm dodgy. No no no. | ||
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Naturally, you are the stiffest test of this, whichever alignment. I think you were sent to TL Mafia to test me. | ||
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I want to talk to Wave. | ||
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On January 31 2014 06:13 WaveofShadow wrote: Hmm I thought it was. Whatevs ill look later Also toyig with the idea of not even bothering to put my reread conclusions/thoughts in thread What have I always told you about dumb stuff like this? | ||
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On January 22 2014 05:31 marvellosity wrote: Just popping in between exercise and dinner, i'll go find kita's stuff a bit later. Mostly 1, maybe a touch of 3? It's just something I don't find very surprising. I've often remarked to Prome that I find his opening to games bad/weak/scummy because he makes senseless accusations/stupid fluff/whatever. Really (and this is to VE mostly I guess) I don't really care so much about him doing that at the start of the game, nor Hapa either, because it's what they do. The difference between here and LX is that on LX it was abundantly clear he was on the backfoot about his RNG plan, here his defence was on the frontfoot (partly *because* he didn't try to overjustify it again and again) and he simply moved on from it. I sincerely wish I found it as interesting as you and VE seem to :p Mentioned it once without explanation before this post, explained it here. | ||
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On January 31 2014 06:16 WaveofShadow wrote: Too late to call me dumb this game, honey It's never, ever too late for that :> | ||
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maybe i need to pay more attention | ||
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I'm about to be PC-less again momentarily, bf's and shiz :p will maybe try to phonepost. Anyway the main stuff was about austin, as per my post a couple of pages back directly addressing you | ||
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On January 23 2014 02:57 VisceraEyes wrote: I don't know man, the catchup posts seemed disingenuous, but I'm afraid I'm biased. Based on the posts I'm more willing to admit that I could be wrong about Prome, and yes the alternatives are looking better. The thing about Prome is that there's no POP to his posts - when he's town, when he thinks he's found something suspicious something clicks and his confidence shoots up and you can see it in his posts. I didn't get that feeling when he was posting about you. But again, I'm not sure how much of it is my own bias speaking. Foolishness/Sandroba/HolyFlare are three targets who are, in my opinion, well equipped to prove their worth D1 if they're town. That none of them has been able to do this is troubling to me. Been checking through VE's filter for Prome thoughts. Possibly this is the strongest thing in there. I defended Prome on ego partly because I was totally convinced Fool was pushing for a mislynch, but this stuff nonetheless remains true. "there's no POP" is really an excellent description. | ||
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On January 31 2014 10:26 Toadesstern wrote: yes bussing him is probably the right decision at this moment Isn't it though, Toad Someone seems quite sure of themselves, hmm? | ||
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Some of us are going back to relook for ourselves, now shoo. Or talk to me about austin, up to you, i can't be up for much longer. | ||
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On January 31 2014 10:29 austinmcc wrote: It's tough to pop while hiding It is, yet he has *enough* filter to be poppy in. | ||
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On January 31 2014 10:47 WaveofShadow wrote: I actually understood to some degree what austin was getting at at the time to be honest. I also don't find the line of thought scummy in any way, really. He dropped when you explained it the best, here. I basically found it suspicious because it seemed so obvious what I was talking about, and it shouldn't have to require me shouting the really obvious context at him to make him stop going down that path. Apparently if you empathised and understood at the time, then it wasn't quite correct for me to find it that off. Ok. | ||
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On January 31 2014 10:54 WaveofShadow wrote: Is there anything else? Do you think the final scumteam is austin and prome? Is Toad involved? If I were simply to lynch 2 individuals right now, it would be Prome and Toad. I just need to get my head around this: On January 22 2014 23:42 Promethelax wrote: Will follow up on this as I read but this post stands out on my so-bad-it-has-to-come-from-town radar. The post so deeply misunderstands how to play mafia as a whole and places pressure so fully away from anything resembling clear thought that it does nothing. I cannot expound enough on how poor I think this line of thought is. But I don't see it coming from a scummer since my memory of HF is that he doesn't suck at scum and wouldn't post something so totally awful if he was concerned about how other people read him. to make them into a team. It doesn't make it impossible for sure, but it makes me frown thinking about it. It would be Prome's best play of the game I think. It could be a "i'm drawing attention to this so that I'm not drawing attention to this" sort of thing. | ||
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On January 31 2014 11:00 austinmcc wrote: That's more or less kita's question. I don't think it's a scum-marv comment. He's not scum because he said that. He's scum for general feel, for the brainz question, for his willingness to sit in the backseat this game EVEN AS THE GAME GOES TO ENDGAME (look at foolishness's posts on kita/toad/prome, kita's post on Sandroba's willingness to bus, and compare that to anything that marv has put forth). That comment just made me go look harder at his D1 voting, and also just...fight with him about it but it's not a town/scum battleground. He just got really bristly and I don't like the bristliness, or the fact that there's no ground given by either of us over whether the comment allows for a D3/D1 difference. It's a long time back, but in Movie Mini marv gets to mid/middish game and goes nuts trying to hunt a scum roleblocker because that's the only way for town to POSSIBLY win. In champions he has a burst of activity in late midgame, trying to get things on the right track for town. Even when marv isn't LEADING, marv wants to SOLVE the game. We're one day from endgame and marv still wasn't even convinced on prome, for the longest time today, and he's still not voting and doesn't appear to be fully convinced. Foolishness and Kita put in legwork, I ... opened LX in another tab and have not looked at it much, and marv is just content to fret over who might or might not be scum. Except not really, because he's not taking any stances, he's not burst of activity-ing. He's just sort of here to say that maybe some folks are mafia. This post is grossly unfair. I believed Foolish was mafia (and was the first not to dally after his epic posts) and the game was built around that. And I pushed it and I got Foolish lynched like I wanted, that was to be my crowning glory this game, and I damn well made sure it happened. Except he was town and everything fell around me and how I viewed the game simply didn't really exist anymore. Pretty much I don't feel bad for being a bit unsure today in light of this. Pretty sure you're being pretty bad and wrong with this whole post because of this. | ||
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On January 31 2014 11:03 WaveofShadow wrote: Why is that hard to do as a scumteam? That's an easy townread, and says more about a scum Prome than it does about a mafia Holy/Toad. If anything it makes Holy's theoretical scumplay more impressive to set Prome up for that easy townread. It just reads as a very unnatural way to treat a scumbuddy. "so deeply misunderstands how to play mafia" - I can't explain very well how that doesn't sound scum-scum, if you don't see what i'm thinking about that then you're just not going to see. kita said it was a good observation at the time when I made it, so I wasn't alone in thinking that at any rate. | ||
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On January 31 2014 11:10 WaveofShadow wrote: But there's notably someone who else who had viewed the game as 'all wrong' from the start, and he started to re-evaluate early on. Hell even I started to re-evaluate Foolishness before he was lynched, because that is what townies do. I'm not saying everything austin pointed out here screams scum, but there are problems with your play here, and those problems ARE fair. Especially in considering how a lot of the competing thoughts and opinions were shut down that maybe would have made 'the way you view the game' a little less rigid and thus prevent things from 'falling down around you.' Shrug. I was tunnelled. Is that 'good'? In hindsight, no. It would have been good if he flipped mafia though. I'm simply not scum because i played less than optimally during a lynch and what that resulted in for me. | ||
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toad is town because "he's not doing anything and he's not pushing a case on his mafiaread in any way". Wonderful. | ||
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On January 31 2014 11:19 WaveofShadow wrote: kk will you be around to talk tomorrow? I will actually be pretty active for most of the day up until usual time pre-deadline. I'll be mostly around at work, less so in the evening when I do things. | ||
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On January 31 2014 11:59 WaveofShadow wrote: lol austin your reads are cray cray, you're going to have to teach me how to explain retarded reads so when I make them people don't think I'm scum for it. As far as marv pooping on you from space, I remember agreeing with him at the time too about the 'brainz' thing, but I suppose you have a small point regarding the timing and the fact that marv sort of dropped it at an odd time. I don't really value that as a scumtell nearly as much as you do though, because I feel that's just a sort of a 'marvy' thing to do when he thinks something is dumb and he's re-reading parts of the thread. You can keep your reads though. Have fun with them. Highlighted the important bits. Don't even know if it was a re-read or just something I was thinking about. Doesn't much matter. On January 31 2014 12:04 WaveofShadow wrote: I didn't have as much of a problem with your Toadread as marv did, so let him respond to you. I'm decently okay with it for now, but again, in the middle of massive re-read so if I have more questions for you that go back on anything I've said, don't be surprised. No, no. It's not helping my state of mind - arguing with austin is like arguing with my cat. She *will* get chicken no matter how much I tell her no. "Miaow" "No, you can't have chicken, I fed you earlier" "Miaow. miaow. miaow." "Seriously Rusty, you're just in the way." "Miaow. Miaow." "Just shut up will you?" "Miaow. Miaow. Miaow!" "I'm not giving you any you know" "Miaow! Miaow! Miaow! Miaow!" "look...." "Miaow! Miaow!" "Fine, have some fucking chicken. Jeez..." | ||
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##Vote: Promethelax | ||
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He has never stuck his neck out and has never been in the middle of pushing lynches. He allowed the town to push the lynch and never had a leading role in anything. Fool day 3? Pretty neck-sticky-outy. His reads have not evolved on any player in this game he had Foolishness as 100% confirmed town and yet was happy to lynch him. Please find where i said Fool was 100% confirmed town? In fact Foolish is the perfect example of an evolving read this game. This is bullshittery. How would you characterise your play this game, Prome? | ||
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On February 01 2014 01:35 austinmcc wrote: Hey marv, do you remember any games in particular where townprome looked very scummy early on? Off the top of my head I want to immediately say ACME, but that's without checking. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=400346¤tpage=10#184 | ||
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On February 01 2014 05:53 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh horseshit. What if I really was playing just this good of a scumgame? It's honestly not that hard if you simply abandon 'mafia agenda' and just pretend to be town and absorb all the risks that come with it. Yes it is. You're clueless. Don't "it's honestly not that hard" me, I've played 10 of the fuckers. | ||
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On February 01 2014 05:55 WaveofShadow wrote: Maybe I'm just better at scum than you then. I've never seen one mafia maintain the type of giving a shit and interest that you have over the last 3 cycles. So like austin said with his toad read, gonna keep on trucking with that until I'm proved wrong. Which is unlikely given I've played 60-70 mafia games or something. | ||
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On February 01 2014 05:55 austinmcc wrote: You have D1 anti-foolishness posts due to sandroba and generally feeling that Foolishness isn't active/townie/whatever. But I promise you I had your filter open for a while this morning, and I'll bet if you start looking after Foolishness changes his mind on Promethelax, you're gonna find your suspicions on him are because of his WoS read. There were plenty of other things that didn't mesh up. Such as Fool having the read on Wave, but conveniently disappearing from the thread right as Wave arrived posting walls. Obviously that was just Fool doing his thang, but in the context it looked horrendous. Wasn't only me that thought so either. | ||
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On February 01 2014 06:18 WaveofShadow wrote: You know what's fun? Rereading my own earlier Prome/VE cases and really liking them. Why in blue fuck did they get shot down so many times and so quickly? I do certainly notice a lot of the people under suspicion right now being very quick to be the ones to shoot me down based on things like 'hammers' and 'confirmed towniness.' Is there even a point to doing this really? Another interesting thing is Foolishness originally had me as town and Prome as scum way early on. Thinking of it now it seems way unlikely that a scum player would give that read early, flip flop on it entirely and then flip flop back again. Ugh was way too tunneled and angry with Foolishness---at Toad too to some degree. I gotta stop doing that when people make bullshit cases on me, even if it is a good way to get people to see me as town. Yea, when I went back over Fool... yesterday? earlier? I realised this too. He went from massive Prome = mafia to massive Prome = town to massive Prome = mafia. Such categorical switches I blame kita tbf. | ||
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Happy Birthday austin! ![[image loading]](http://oi52.tinypic.com/w0hxqv.jpg) With our thanks to all of town! ##unvote ##Vote: austinmcc ##Stylepoints: marv&toad | ||
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Couple things, mainly directed at austin: your methodology for townreading Toad *was* silly, and it was kinda frustrating to me you were scumreading me for saying it was silly :p Also there was literally nothing wrong with lazily calling Wave town purely for effort. On skype Mig said to me "and Wave is blatantly town now after posting so much D2". It doesn't actually need explaining any further than that. Sure you *could* talk about why the actual content made him town, but that's unnecessary. It's only really necessary when you're making the suggestion that someone active isn't making great posts (like me). Thanks Artanis! Great hosting and was patient with my incessant moaning, especially early on... | ||
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On February 01 2014 08:14 DarthPunk wrote: Endgame podcast very soon (like in an hour). Pm if you want /in to shoot the shit about the game. I know all you guys thought I was mafia. I can't make it for the next couple days to talk about it which sucks. Maybe we can do a short one-off in a few days time or so. I'd like to talk about the game some maybe. | ||
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On February 01 2014 08:41 Foolishness wrote: Maybe, a lot of people were on to him at the time. All things considered though I commend him for trying to play to his town meta and not his usual mafia behavior. I was confident about my read on him which is why I thought Toad was town more than anything. It was his usual mafia behaviour, you just metad him wrong. | ||
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and the whole game was played with a very good atmosphere in general | ||
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t.t | ||
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On February 01 2014 09:05 gonzaw wrote: Well...maybe not activity-wise, but in everything-else-wise, yes you were basically. At least your thread-persona Bingo now you understand my limitations as mafia | ||
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On February 01 2014 10:05 gonzaw wrote: Okay, another question: Was marv alive as town in any LYLO (barring MTG 2)? I...just want to make sure if we can actually use that heuristic lol There was a game or two over the summer where I was strapped for time and was playing like gash that I was alive at lylo. Sicilian. Maybe another one here or there, don't remember though. | ||
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It's extremely true. Anyways, town wasn't bad, it was a gg. Townies made mistakes but mafia (hello) influenced thread opinion and sentiment to foster these mistakes. DP, I can already tell, is one of those observers who doesn't grasp that looking in is quite different from being in the middle of something, and so calls everyone bad in a reasonably unwarranted fashion. | ||
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On February 01 2014 23:51 Crossfire99 wrote: I think a lot of it comes down to that playing in a game is so much different from just observing it. It isn't even about not having the obs qt or not. You have no real investment as an observer and can be "neutral," but while playing there is a lot more opportunity to be swayed be emotions and be caught up in thread sentiment because you're playing with these people not watching them play. Basically this. Like I actually agree that I think in general I should be fairly easy to spot. Yet in game... things consistently turn out differently. edit: it's *always* the people *out* of game who think I'm fairly obvious scum. Which is fine. I probably am :D But somehow, almost never people in the game think that way. On February 01 2014 21:03 WaveofShadow wrote: Such a whiner. You have no idea. Artanis is being quite kind ^_^ | ||
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On February 02 2014 10:52 austinmcc wrote: I just think it was off. If he wants to make fun of me for it, that's fine, and if he wants to ask what I'm talking about, or why I feel so strongly, or something like that, it's fine. But that question itself was something he knew the answer to, and the answer had nothing to do with anything. As either alignment I'd believe what I was typing, so it's not alignment-indicative of me, and it's not alignment-indicative to marv about Toad (whether he's town OR scum), so it meant nothing. But it wasn't a joke or mocking, it felt like he was legitimately asking this absolutely useless question. No, it was sarcasm  | ||
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On February 03 2014 03:08 austinmcc wrote: ^ You have to both be able to convince the majority of people (and NOBODY wanted to move off of foolishness except perhaps kita?), AND you know there are still other scum. No matter how convinced I was that marv was scum, I was also convinced on prome. I didn't care a ton about pushing marv super hard because I thought we had scum already. Heck, when trying to see things in a different light, I kept creating prome + x teams, to double check and see if marv was wrong even though I thought he was scum. I never sat down and did marv + x teams to see if some other team magically had everything make sense. I think staying alive while LOOKING scummy to some people, and having some people convinced of your scumminess, is one of the more difficult aspects of playing scum. No matter how scummy you look, you can often just paint someone else scummier, or slightly push town towards another target. Mm. Didn't have a vote on me all game I think? What more could I have done... | ||
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what you're saying is what i'm agreeing with essentially | ||
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On February 05 2014 00:35 kushm4sta wrote: marv sucks now. getting laid too often has made him soft. This is funny in several ways :d | ||
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On February 05 2014 07:10 WaveofShadow wrote: Those kinds of posts are considerably less funny now that I have a guy of my own. This post adds to the funniness for me. | ||
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Foolish wrote Finding mafia means building a case against a person, not just looking out for one specific thing they do or don't do. See, this is interesting. syllogism said to me before (or maybe not to me, but I read it) that he can have all the analysis he wants, but if he can't point to something in very particular that he finds off, he doesn't have confidence in the lynch. On February 06 2014 19:56 kushm4sta wrote: It's the easiest thing in the world for someone to roll scum and act like themselves. I think instead of looking at someone's behavior you should look at the logic behind their reads. Not for me it isn't, sadly Foolish wrote Even players who aren't big on it still use it to reinforce their ideas. Marvellosity is not a big analysis player, but he'll still back up his claims and use the information to achieve his goal with his posting. I use meta a lot, but a lot of it is feels for the player i've played with. I'll diligently research a player I don't know so well. The thing is, for my high volume of posting I do as town, I do a tonne of work behind the scenes that I don't bring into the thread. Fool spends paragraphs and paragraphs explaining meta and behaviour, which is fine, I'll make my decision based on my legwork and present it in a few lines. | ||
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