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On November 23 2013 12:00 cDgCorazon wrote:
When did I attack Mocsta for being scum?
I think you're asking me this question, and now that I read again you're mostly 1) unimpressed with the ego battle between Mocsta and Rayn and 2) not happy with the "buddying" between Mocsta and Thrawn. I don't think I thought you were attacking Mocsta for being scum as such but you have been talking a fair bit about Mocsta above other people who I think are far, far more likely to flip scum.
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United Kingdom30775 Posts
Oh please, you want me to lecture people who are deadset on policy lynching someone? Yeh that never works there are way too many egos involved and post lynch people most definitely calm down and can see the bigger picture.
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On November 23 2013 12:22 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 12:00 cDgCorazon wrote:
When did I attack Mocsta for being scum? I think you're asking me this question, and now that I read again you're mostly 1) unimpressed with the ego battle between Mocsta and Rayn and 2) not happy with the "buddying" between Mocsta and Thrawn. I don't think I thought you were attacking Mocsta for being scum as such but you have been talking a fair bit about Mocsta above other people who I think are far, far more likely to flip scum.
I'm trying to keep Mocsta on track and not have him rule the town and force all of the lynches to be "my way or the highway" which is what I felt he did to me and the rest of the town D1.
A good, constructive Mocsta is an asset to town while a tunneled, heuristic-filled Mocsta is a detriment. I'm just trying to get the former type of play out of Moc.
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So Holyflare, at the end of day 1 you wanted to lynch Corazon. Is that still true?
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##vote: bereft
By my placing of the first vote, I hope I have everyone's attention. I want to use this opportunity to tell everyone to go read my massive spoilered collection of bereft D1 quotes. Bereft hardly ever describes why rayn is mafia, most of the justifications for the rayn lynch are policy reasons or "I can't see town doing this" which is an equally bad justification.
Please go read everything I wrote and quoted in that spoiler.
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On November 23 2013 12:24 Holyflare wrote:
Oh please, you want me to lecture people who are deadset on policy lynching someone? Yeh that never works there are way too many egos involved and post lynch people most definitely calm down and can see the bigger picture.
Stop trying to play it off. The bottom line is that you voted with Mocsta. His argument convinced you and you voted with Mocsta. I find it extremely hypocritical that you attacked Mocsta for lynching Rayn when you agreed with the lynch. If you didn't like the lynch, you should not have voted for it. There was 7 on the wagon without your vote. You didn't need to be on there. Yet you were on there and now you are trying to pass the blame onto Mocsta. It's really scummy.
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The only reason scum wouldn't shoot is if Holyflare is scum and is looking for cred for his doc claim. Which is such a huge stretch and makes no sense for several reasons that I don't think we need to entertain it.
So I think we should all just assume that scum attack was foiled. Whether or not it was a HF heal or something else, we can't be sure. HF made his claim 17 minutes before the deadline. More than enough time for scum to change it's target.
So I think the shooter was roleblocked. I think we should discuss a potential roleclaim from anyone w/ a roleblocking role. Would love to hear opinions on it.
And Holy, can u post ur flavor please?
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On November 23 2013 12:34 JarJarDrinks wrote:
The only reason scum wouldn't shoot is if Holyflare is scum and is looking for cred for his doc claim. Which is such a huge stretch and makes no sense for several reasons that I don't think we need to entertain it.
So I think we should all just assume that scum attack was foiled. Whether or not it was a HF heal or something else, we can't be sure. HF made his claim 17 minutes before the deadline. More than enough time for scum to change it's target.
So I think the shooter was roleblocked. I think we should discuss a potential roleclaim from anyone w/ a roleblocking role. Would love to hear opinions on it.
And Holy, can u post ur flavor please?
Scum have the power to withhold their shot and use it tomorrow. Can you tihnk of a particularly good reason why they wouldn't choose to do this?
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On November 23 2013 12:35 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 12:34 JarJarDrinks wrote:
The only reason scum wouldn't shoot is if Holyflare is scum and is looking for cred for his doc claim. Which is such a huge stretch and makes no sense for several reasons that I don't think we need to entertain it.
So I think we should all just assume that scum attack was foiled. Whether or not it was a HF heal or something else, we can't be sure. HF made his claim 17 minutes before the deadline. More than enough time for scum to change it's target.
So I think the shooter was roleblocked. I think we should discuss a potential roleclaim from anyone w/ a roleblocking role. Would love to hear opinions on it.
And Holy, can u post ur flavor please? Scum have the power to withhold their shot and use it tomorrow. Can you tihnk of a particularly good reason why they wouldn't choose to do this? Oh OK. Totally forgot that. Please disregard my last post.
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Guess I'll put my vote where my mouth is too.
##Vote: Rean
It's in the wallpost. Mostly this vote's because he's been very relucant to express his views and hasn't pushed anything besides a vote on me which looked really safe at the time.
@Thrawn: Bereft's already replied to your case here. What about his defence do you find unpersuasive?
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so now that I think about it, why wouldn't they just shoot holy after his claim? Was there really no scum around @ the deadline?
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On November 23 2013 12:41 JarJarDrinks wrote:
so now that I think about it, why wouldn't they just shoot holy after his claim? Was there really no scum around @ the deadline?
Cause that claim was too stupid to be true.
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Basic Vote Count
Bereft (1): thrawn2112
Rean (1): Aquanim
Not Voting (9): Everyone else
No one is currently set to be lynched.
11 players alive means 6 votes to lynch. If you find an error in the vote count, please let me know.
Day 2 ends in at 03:00 GMT (+00:00)
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On November 23 2013 10:54 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 10:38 sciberbia wrote:Have some questions for you Cora. 1) Can you explain what you were talking about in this post? How exactly did you think rayn was trying to gain town cred by going on a rampage and martyring himself? On November 22 2013 04:45 cDgCorazon wrote:
I really do not like Rayn martyring...tbh the concept of martyring has been beaten to death and I think he's just using it as a ploy to gain town cred.
2) If you think it would have been beneficial to scum to keep rayn alive yesterday EVEN given that he is town, why would you not vote for him yesterday? Surely if you think lynching town!rayn would be bad for scum, then it would be good for town? And if he flipped scum even better, right? I don't see how you reconcile voting for no lynch with claiming that it would have been better for scum to no-lynch yesterday. Ok, to be honest, the Rayn lynch was basically impossible for me to pick a side. On one hand, I really thought Rayn was town. On the other hand, Rayn's play was very anti-town. It is a very narrow playstyle that Rayn's townplay fits into. He can be town but not an asset to town at the same time. That is the reason I'm not attacking Mocsta after Rayn's flip. I think I'm being misrepresented (or perhaps I have misrepresented myself) to say that I was against the Rayn lynch. Rayn's really bad townplay, along with the fact that it was a majority lynch, gave me a choice of either lynching someone who I was very confident was town or having him shit up the thread. I think my thought process would make more sense if I went through it. At the beginning, when I made all of those "OMG this fight is stupid" posts, it was due to the fact that the thread had become a shitfest and Rayn/everyone else were simply shitting up the thread. I was truly exasperated and angry that the thread had gone out of control and we had gone from some very good discussion on Aqua/myself/Rean to Rayn and only Rayn. After I came back from school, I was still trying to make a decision whether to vote Rayn or not. When I made the post that you quoted, I think I was trying to justify a Rayn lynch to myself. I knew that it was a dumb lynch but I also knew that I could not do anything about it. Rayn had basically lost it and I did not know whether to give him a second chance or not. When I got back (about 45 minutes from the deadline), I said to myself "Fuck it, I'm not going to be dragged around and be forced to follow thread sentiment". So I voted for a no-lynch. I knew it was useless to try and suggest because Rayn was already bleeding badly and all of the sharks were floating around him. You guys were tunneled way too hard on Rayn and that was a mistake that I tried to correct earlier but gave up out of frustration. TL;DR: My town read on Rayn + The shitty town atmosphere Rayn was causing= scenario where no one wins and I'm forced to walk a very fine line to take a neutral stance on Rayn's lynch.
On a lunch break.
This is a really bad post.
Its very constructed and uses analogies. This is the first time Corazon breaks out a post with this type of construction and notably, he is answering a very important question from Sciberbia that - I think - produces an alignment indicative response.
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On November 23 2013 13:49 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 10:54 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 23 2013 10:38 sciberbia wrote:Have some questions for you Cora. 1) Can you explain what you were talking about in this post? How exactly did you think rayn was trying to gain town cred by going on a rampage and martyring himself? On November 22 2013 04:45 cDgCorazon wrote:
I really do not like Rayn martyring...tbh the concept of martyring has been beaten to death and I think he's just using it as a ploy to gain town cred.
2) If you think it would have been beneficial to scum to keep rayn alive yesterday EVEN given that he is town, why would you not vote for him yesterday? Surely if you think lynching town!rayn would be bad for scum, then it would be good for town? And if he flipped scum even better, right? I don't see how you reconcile voting for no lynch with claiming that it would have been better for scum to no-lynch yesterday. Ok, to be honest, the Rayn lynch was basically impossible for me to pick a side. On one hand, I really thought Rayn was town. On the other hand, Rayn's play was very anti-town. It is a very narrow playstyle that Rayn's townplay fits into. He can be town but not an asset to town at the same time. That is the reason I'm not attacking Mocsta after Rayn's flip. I think I'm being misrepresented (or perhaps I have misrepresented myself) to say that I was against the Rayn lynch. Rayn's really bad townplay, along with the fact that it was a majority lynch, gave me a choice of either lynching someone who I was very confident was town or having him shit up the thread. I think my thought process would make more sense if I went through it. At the beginning, when I made all of those "OMG this fight is stupid" posts, it was due to the fact that the thread had become a shitfest and Rayn/everyone else were simply shitting up the thread. I was truly exasperated and angry that the thread had gone out of control and we had gone from some very good discussion on Aqua/myself/Rean to Rayn and only Rayn. After I came back from school, I was still trying to make a decision whether to vote Rayn or not. When I made the post that you quoted, I think I was trying to justify a Rayn lynch to myself. I knew that it was a dumb lynch but I also knew that I could not do anything about it. Rayn had basically lost it and I did not know whether to give him a second chance or not. When I got back (about 45 minutes from the deadline), I said to myself "Fuck it, I'm not going to be dragged around and be forced to follow thread sentiment". So I voted for a no-lynch. I knew it was useless to try and suggest because Rayn was already bleeding badly and all of the sharks were floating around him. You guys were tunneled way too hard on Rayn and that was a mistake that I tried to correct earlier but gave up out of frustration. TL;DR: My town read on Rayn + The shitty town atmosphere Rayn was causing= scenario where no one wins and I'm forced to walk a very fine line to take a neutral stance on Rayn's lynch. On a lunch break. This is a really bad post. Its very constructed and uses analogies. This is the first time Corazon breaks out a post with this type of construction and notably, he is answering a very important question from Sciberbia that - I think - produces an alignment indicative response.
Yes because I planned to say my answer and then decide to say my answer more in-depth. Sounds totally planned.
A more "constructed" post would have been everything after "I think my thought process would make more sense if I went through it".
Seeing as I've been asked to repeat the same thing 5 times about other issues, I thought I might as well explain myself and leave nothing out of it.
Since when is using analogies a scum-tell?
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Also Mocsta, I'm tired of you picking on me. You've been waffling on your read about me. Either make the fucking case or hold your tongue.
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On November 23 2013 13:56 cDgCorazon wrote:
Also Mocsta, I'm tired of you picking on me. You've been waffling on your read about me. Either make the fucking case or hold your tongue.
I was posting stuff that stuck out as I was reading.
Using analogies isn't scummy.
Its when you dont use them and suddenly decide to.
im specifically referencing "sharks were circling rayn"
I dunno where my read on you sits; smoethings are good, somethings are bad. This probably means you are town, but im not confident. low priority to me regardless.
Unfortunately the correct play is to leave HolyFlare alone.
It is possible scum was RB or Delay KP.
If Delay KP, its self-confirming. --> ezpz lynch later
If RB, its odd play and the claim was made pre-lynch; suggesting its real. Absolutely dumb ass claim regardless.
##Vote: jampidampi
*Maybe there is scum in the actives, but they can be figured out.
Guys like this guy are too unknown. Early cycle is our best opportunity to put pressure.
I have had an issue with him ever since he had the mindset to declare Corazon could be emotionally tunneled and then proceeding to tunnel aquanim over semantics.
Because, I dont think he knows corazon that well, so the call emotional tunnel suggests he is highly analytical.
This doesnt sit well with the lack of analytics with aquanim.
I'm off again /ciao
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On November 23 2013 10:47 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 10:43 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 23 2013 10:32 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon I'd like to see your thoughts on Jampidampi. No thread presence. He played a very little part in D1 and that doesn't reflect very well on my read on him. I think if there was a scum OFF the Rayn lynch, it is very likely to be him. I'd be down lynching him tomorrow if it comes to that. You mean a scum off the Rayn lynch besides Onegu?
Lol, Im back. Im the best flip for day 2 because then you can lynch mocsta and bereft in order, followed by up to you, but this post I am scum is so bad.
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On November 23 2013 10:59 Mocsta wrote:
Thrawn
Very quick. In phone thoughts with no reread
Jjd
Still town. I like the way he kept pushing Corazon about a point. He's always backing himself up with filter so good consistency.
I don't like that he assumed rayn could be right about Me.. but. Town can make those snap calls all the time. Plus jjd was suspicious of me at the start so I think there is progression to his comment.
Still town
Bereft
Yeah I'm a little concerned went into a big spiel to justify rayn lynch.
Um not sorry about it. I'm not really sure the town motive to give that spiel as bereft wasn't under pressure to justify actions.
I'm not sure if bereft is a townie that wanted to policy lynch rayn but doesn't want to admit. Or is scum hiding behind policy and again doesn't want to admit it.
Inoe that onegu presented the quote where bereft thinks onegu case wasn't on me but Cora.. I have to think about it.
Iverlall I would say that tell is null because that onegu case was so poorly formatted abd constructed it's message was never clear.
Will give bereft benefit of the doubt and say slight town lean. If anything is not worth considering when people like holy abd onegu are alive
Lastly I did not like how onegu addressed me over night. Seemed almost like a begging for forgiveness yonr.
If onegu really thought I was scum I would have expected more venom. Food for thought.
Gotta go. Sorry I couldn't be of more use
This blows my mind how was I begging your forgiveness?!?! I know you are givimg me a not scum read but this is soooo bad of a reason.
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On November 23 2013 11:43 cDgCorazon wrote:
About to eat dinner- giving my final brief reads just in case I die (I probably won't)
Coming into D2, I want to lynch Onegu. His play has been really shady and he needs to be under the gun D2. He does not care about who gets lynched which is a huge scum tell.
I'd also be cool lynching Jampi for similar reasons.
HF blaming Mocsta for the lynch is really scummy seeing as if HF was town and didn't like the lynch, he could just back off it.
I'd be down for lynching one of those three tomorrow.
Sciberia's vote was really shady as it came with no explanation at the buzzer. From what I gathered up, he did not have a scum read on Rayn yet voted for him (let me know sci if I missed a post)
Thrawn needs to have more of a presence in the thread and needs to stop buddying Mocsta and make his own reads.
I'm not interested in lynching anyone outside of these 5 as of now. Of course I will be flexible depending on what happens.
So bad cora, take a look at when I voted what the wagons were, it was rayn with majority, and no one else with more than 1 vote.
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EPT
