EPTOn November 22 2013 12:10 cDgCorazon wrote:
Doesn't Onegu's vote look really scummy with Rayn's flip?
Doesn't Onegu's vote look really scummy with Rayn's flip?
How?
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
How? | ||
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
On November 22 2013 11:57 cDgCorazon wrote: OMG RAYN IM STICKING MY NECK OUT FOR YOU AND YOU ARE GONNA MARTYR FUCK YOU MAN JUST FUCK YOU Also rayns martyr is the correct play in majority lynch, he knows his flip is valuable for info. His flip proved alot of stuff. Like most likely all scum was on his wagon. He gives credibility to his reads. | ||
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
On November 22 2013 12:50 Mocsta wrote: The original counter-wagons were Rean / Aqua As a musing The day had 2 halves Half 1: Before Rayn chucked martyred Half 2: After Rayn martyred My reads from Half 1 were: and then The common denominators are Rean + Jampidampi. Jampidampi is terrible as he refused to commit to anything accusations on rayn last night (from recollection) Rean is terrible for that post he made. It reads as if he knew he was not getting lynched so decided to keep quiet. I dont like holyflare, but hes low priority for me - over the next cyles Im sure if he is town he can start proving it. So bad dont you think rayn was more confident in his reads closer to his death when he had more info? So you look at old reads and mix them with your reads so you can push your reads and then saying hey look rayn thought they were scum too and he flipped town. | ||
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
On November 22 2013 12:58 Holyflare wrote: I told you them in LXIII, a game in which both you and thrawn were/are in. How do you not know what rayn town tells are by now? Stop multiple people you have mentioned havent flipped. | ||
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
On November 22 2013 13:11 Mocsta wrote: Btw, I think Thrawn is town. I did very much 24hrs ago; and his compulsion to keep swapping votes is towny to me. It could put him heavily under suspicion when rayn flipped town, and frankly, was unnecessary as scum play. I thought Aqua was town from 24hrs ago as well. Holy states that aqua is ignoring everything, but that is not my opinion. If anything, Aqua can't stop bantering back with Rayn. Again, this is over done knowing it is a town flip. Aqua could have easily nested on his read - but he did not. I have a town lean on him, but wiill still be reading his cases carefully (and with Rayn gone I expect more output like cases from him) Me: I was transparent about policy. You want to call that mafia, whatever. I knwo this game is 100% different to my recent scum game. Nothing more needs to be said + I dont knwo why you keep insinuating I am intimate with Rayns meta. I have expectations of his play, but I am not a connoiseur of him at all. Onegu: Looks pretty bad I agree regardless of AFK. This in particular. Nothing to do with the AFK its got to do with how he went about the situation. He gives rayn a town read, and forces town to consider Rayns thread opposition (me) Compare this to Corazon who is trying to avoid continuing this ego battle - Onegu instead fans the flames. Onegu *is* scum Not fanning flames, posting reads that at least one was correct. No idea how my voteing you and calling rayn town is in anyway fanning flames. I am so confident you are scum now, you flip flop on your reads soooo often, you misrepresent things like this post and you are overall just scummy. | ||
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On November 22 2013 22:32 Onegu wrote: Also rayns martyr is the correct play in majority lynch, he knows his flip is valuable for info. His flip proved alot of stuff. Like most likely all scum was on his wagon. He gives credibility to his reads. @Onegu I have two questions. 1) Why do you think all of the scum would be on Rayn's wagon? What motive does the scumteam have for pushing Rayn's lynch so hard? 2) Could you comment on what about Rayn's reads you find persuasive? | ||
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JarJarDrinks
United States1302 Posts
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On November 22 2013 23:17 JarJarDrinks wrote: Yeah, I'm curious as to what Cora is getting @ here too. Now I wouldn't normally pre-empt an answer like this, but I'm pretty sure I already asked this question and Corazon already answered... in the posts directly after the quoted one. On November 22 2013 12:20 cDgCorazon wrote: Onegu dropped a vote away from Rayn and then peaced out. What would scum do if they knew town Rayn was probably going to be lynched 12 hours in advance? They wouldn't all pack on the Rayn wagon. That would be too obvious for a scum team. Wouldn't it make sense for Onegu to put a vote on Moc in the middle of the Rayn tunnel to look like he was making an effort to scum-hunt and then be able to distance himself from a Rayn lynch? I was transparent with my stance on Rayn and my decision to no-lynch. Onegu was very shady about it and I think it's because he is hiding the fact that he is scum. @Onegu, JJD: Do you find Corazon's explanation here insufficient? | ||
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JarJarDrinks
United States1302 Posts
On November 22 2013 23:26 Aquanim wrote: Now I wouldn't normally pre-empt an answer like this, but I'm pretty sure I already asked this question and Corazon already answered... in the posts directly after the quoted one. @Onegu, JJD: Do you find Corazon's explanation here insufficient? I think that you pointing out that it was pretty damn close to exactly what he did was spot on. Cora said he was transparent about his reasons while Onegu wasn't. Here's both of their posts telling us that Rayn was a bad wagon: On November 22 2013 04:33 Onegu wrote: Anyway mocsta is my biggest scumread now. Also Rayn is a terrible lynch today please change, ill try to be up for deadline but no promises. Anyway its 2:30am and typeing all that up on a tablet is difficult. ##VOTE:Mocsta @Rayn stop marytring and come back and push your reads. On November 22 2013 11:28 cDgCorazon wrote: You know what, I don't want any part of this. Rayn and Moc are just battling with their egos and this whole thing is silly. I would say that I'd rather have Rayn be lynched so we can move on to more things but I also think it is really stupid that we are voting Rayn out when it's pretty obvious to me now that he is town. ##unvote ##Vote: No-lynch This is stupid and I can't believe that it has come to this. Rayn is a bad lynch and Onegu/Aqua are way better lynches today. And in response to this: On November 22 2013 12:20 cDgCorazon wrote: Wouldn't it make sense for Onegu to put a vote on Moc in the middle of the Rayn tunnel to look like he was making an effort to scum-hunt and then be able to distance himself from a Rayn lynch? I mean, it's exactly what Cora did except w/ Onegu. The only difference is Cora didn't actually put his vote on anyone. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
how am I not playing town that people like jarjar think I am a chance to flip scum? | ||
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JarJarDrinks
United States1302 Posts
On November 23 2013 00:02 Mocsta wrote: This just seems like such fake indignation.I don't get this. how am I not playing town that people like jarjar think I am a chance to flip scum? Here's what I said. On November 22 2013 22:23 JarJarDrinks wrote: Also gonna look into Rayns other scumreads though I don't know how much stock I can put into them because of how wrong he was about me. But I don't feel like he could really go 0 for 3 in his reads so if I had to choose 1 scum between Moc and Bereft, right now I'm gonna say it's Moc. But this is before my reread. And Rayn, the confirmed town, thought u were scum. Shouldn't you be more incredulous of that as opposed to me? It'd be stupid to just ignore what rayn had to say. I think it's unlikely that he missed the whole scum team w/ his reads. So it makes sense that @ least ONE of the people he named is scum. And since I have the benefit of narrowing it down to 2 names, I'm certainly gonna analyse it. The fact that you think that rayn was completly wrong w/ all of his reads and gave me AND bereft townreads after the flip is suspicious to me. | ||
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Bereft
United States1007 Posts
as per my diagram: when who you would lynch based on scum reads coincides with who you would lynch based on policy, it's not hard to become stuck or tunneled on the player in question. I chose not to interact with him because he was spamming the thread and came off unwilling to listen to reason. anyone who confronted him HAD to be scum (see JJD, Mocsta). if you look back around page 30 or so (sorry I'm on my phone) when he jumps on me for having bad priorities, I try to engage and talk with him, but he just peaces out and goes to bed. whatever, it's 6am in Finland, I'm annoyed but willing to let that slide...but when he comes back the next day, there's no attempt to analyze anything I've said or have a dialogue with me. he rides in on his high horse, calls everything bullshit, and insults/points his finger everywhere, clogging up the thread with what appears to be no more than 5 second long analysis. IF(PLAYER THINKS IM SCUM, THEN HE'S SCUM, ELSE TOWN). it's like when you see a dangerous and crazy looking person in the street shouting at passerbys and you veer off course to walk around them. do you find it hard to see why I had no intention of interacting with him? in my mind, it was a good and fair lynch up till about 8pm EST (2 hours before the deadline) when my town reads came back into the thread and voiced misgivings about the lynch choice and it became clear Rean was lurking and Onegu, Jampi were all absent. in retrospect, I should've stepped back and worked with them to find a better 2nd candidate, but (and this is where the 3rd circle of that Venn diagram comes into play) when it's close to the deadline and the person I'm tunneled on getting lynched is within grasp, it's hard to take a step back and rethink my stance. its like dangling something a toddler wants within arm's reach - it was hard for me to look away and reevaluate whether there was a better option further away across the room, and to change course so last minute seemed to put heavily risk a no lunch and put our consolidation into jeopardy. with hindsight obviously I don't think it was a good lynch. but I do not think that it was an unfair lynch given the information available. I think the fact that you did not need to be persuaded to vote rayn implies that you agree, no? as a final point, yours and scib's defense rested purely on "rayn could do this as town". I'm fine with analysis without meta or analysis with meta, but the defense of rayn read to me as pure meta without analysis, which I found weak. maybe that's not how you guys intended it, but with the clock ticking down and rushed posting, that's how I read it. let me know if you need me to explain any further. | ||
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
If I was scum in that situation, what would I do? I would have 2 goals: 1. Keep Rayn alive 2. Not change my story in my attempt to keep Rayn alive The only reason I could see scum trying to lynch Rayn is if his reads were right. So either: 1. All the scum did not vote for Rayn 2. Rayn's reads are at least somewhat correct (at least 1 is scum) 3. The scumteam is just bad To be fair to Onegu, he said that he was not able to make a post before the deadline but to be honest I looked at the time for Australia and I really believe that Onegu could have made a post that said "Hey guys, I don't think Rayn is scum. I'm sticking with my vote" which would have made me accept his vote more. The fact that he didn't kind of points to the fact that he doesn't care about the lynch, a sentiment that has been echoed by many players here. | ||
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JarJarDrinks
United States1302 Posts
On November 23 2013 02:06 cDgCorazon wrote: Um. wouldn't scum be more inclined to have him flip green ASAP if his reads were wrong?The only reason I could see scum trying to lynch Rayn is if his reads were right. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On November 23 2013 02:28 JarJarDrinks wrote: Um. wouldn't scum be more inclined to have him flip green ASAP if his reads were wrong? Yes, rayn pushes any target he has forever, wrong or right. If he's alive he can screw up the thread in that respect (as you guys saw). If his reads were wrong a scum team that knows him would keep him alive. So most likely his reads were right and he got lynched ("policy lynched") for it. | ||
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On November 23 2013 02:28 JarJarDrinks wrote: Um. wouldn't scum be more inclined to have him flip green ASAP if his reads were wrong? Well I think it is a trade off between killing a green now and no-lynching D1/lynching Rayn D2. If I was scum, I would rather have the chaos of what the Rayn discussion brought continue over having him flip now. Instead of us spending 2 days only talking about Rayn, now we have peace and we can focus on other targets that are actually scum. Perhaps the scum felt that the chances of lynching a town D2 are high as well even with the town in a more focused mindset w/o Rayn. That's also a possibility. | ||
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JarJarDrinks
United States1302 Posts
On November 23 2013 02:30 Holyflare wrote: This doesn't make sense to me. You say he "screw[ed] up the thread" as we saw. But no one listened to him at all. So why would scum care to have him leave the thread if he's shitting it up AND no one is listening to him? Once he's gone, the town knows all his reads are real.Yes, rayn pushes any target he has forever, wrong or right. If he's alive he can screw up the thread in that respect (as you guys saw). If his reads were wrong a scum team that knows him would keep him alive. So most likely his reads were right and he got lynched ("policy lynched") for it. | ||
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On November 23 2013 02:38 JarJarDrinks wrote: This doesn't make sense to me. You say he "screw[ed] up the thread" as we saw. But no one listened to him at all. So why would scum care to have him leave the thread if he's shitting it up AND no one is listening to him? Once he's gone, the town knows all his reads are real. Yes but the town atmosphere for the last 12 hours of the game was absolutely terrible. If we had no-lynched Rayn would still an issue and we would waste D2 on it. I guarantee that. That is why it was a hard choice for me to not vote Rayn. | ||
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JarJarDrinks
United States1302 Posts
On November 23 2013 02:41 cDgCorazon wrote: So then how could you say that Scum would want to lynch rayn if his reads were right? They should want to keep him in the game no matter what. But especially if his reads were right.Yes but the town atmosphere for the last 12 hours of the game was absolutely terrible. If we had no-lynched Rayn would still an issue and we would waste D2 on it. I guarantee that. | ||
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