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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=437262
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
November 22 2013 03:32 GMT
#1101
Onegu is someone who prides himself in reading rayn, he even started to call him town at his last post before he afk'd. If he knew rayn was displaying his towny attributes why did he not try and convince any of you that he wasn't scum?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 03:41 GMT
#1102
On November 22 2013 12:32 Holyflare wrote:
Onegu is someone who prides himself in reading rayn, he even started to call him town at his last post before he afk'd. If he knew rayn was displaying his towny attributes why did he not try and convince any of you that he wasn't scum?

Well, his last post was at like 3am.. i dunno


So.. am I still scum to you?
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
November 22 2013 03:48 GMT
#1103
On November 22 2013 12:41 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 12:32 Holyflare wrote:
Onegu is someone who prides himself in reading rayn, he even started to call him town at his last post before he afk'd. If he knew rayn was displaying his towny attributes why did he not try and convince any of you that he wasn't scum?

Well, his last post was at like 3am.. i dunno


So.. am I still scum to you?


From what I've read so far, I mean, you of all people have played with rayn and that vote just now was pure policy. You know I have also played with rayn a lot and so when I call him town based on what I've read you shouldn't throw it away and still lynch him. Yes he may have been obnoxious and shit flinging but that is because he was quite clearly annoyed at people. He was emotionally invested. It is hard to fake it the way he did and whether he was annoying or not a towny is a towny. You actively went against a win con because you did not want to play with him again.

THAT is scummy. There was Aqua who blatantly disregarded anything rayn said at all. The crux of it comes down to this: He had reads on people that disagreed with thread sentiment. He thought he was correct in those reads and shit things up, so what part of that would have been scummy to you? He went balls to the wall defending someone other people think is scum. Do you think he'd associate that strongly with someone if he was scum? That is not how rayn plays at all.
Corazon
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States3230 Posts
November 22 2013 03:48 GMT
#1104
On November 22 2013 12:27 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 12:20 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 22 2013 12:14 Aquanim wrote:
On November 22 2013 12:10 cDgCorazon wrote:
Doesn't Onegu's vote look really scummy with Rayn's flip?

I'm not sure why Onegu's vote looks scummier due to Rayn's flip. Unless you're saying he didn't want to take responsibility for the Rayn lynch... which would apply to you in spades too. Could you clarify?

Onegu dropped a vote away from Rayn and then peaced out.

What would scum do if they knew town Rayn was probably going to be lynched 12 hours in advance? They wouldn't all pack on the Rayn wagon. That would be too obvious for a scum team. Wouldn't it make sense for Onegu to put a vote on Moc in the middle of the Rayn tunnel to look like he was making an effort to scum-hunt and then be able to distance himself from a Rayn lynch?

I was transparent with my stance on Rayn and my decision to no-lynch. Onegu was very shady about it and I think it's because he is hiding the fact that he is scum.

That's a fair point.

Do you think the same applies to jampidampi and Rean, who both left their votes on me without pushing my lynch at all seriously? Personally I doubt they're all scum but I think there's at least one and possibly two scum in {Jampidampi, Rean, Onegu}.

And that's what should be the focal point of N1.
Grubby's #1 Fan
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 03:50 GMT
#1105
On November 22 2013 11:48 sciberbia wrote:
I'll consolidate to rayn if necessary.

But you guys really need to put your votes down. This is the problem with not having a counterwagon. Now we are just lynching rayn because we have no choice, not because that many people even think he's a good lynch.

The original counter-wagons were Rean / Aqua

As a musing

The day had 2 halves

Half 1: Before Rayn chucked martyred

Half 2: After Rayn martyred

My reads from Half 1 were:
On November 21 2013 14:49 Mocsta wrote:
Next, this is my group of strong town reads from p5 -> p20
{Thrawn, JarJarDrinks, Aquanim, Rayn}

This is my group of tentative town reads from p5->p20 (i.e. people i dont have interest to lynch this cycle)
{Corazon, Bereft, Onegu, LoneMeow}

Thus, this is my pile of shit left over: for todays lynch

{Rean, Sciberbia, jampidampi}


and then
On November 21 2013 17:25 Mocsta wrote:
Read the whole game. Updated reads list:

The Good: {Thrawn, JarJarDrinks, Aquanim, Bereft}

The Bad: {Onegu, LoneMeow, Rayn, Sciberbia}

The Ugly: {Rean, jampidampi, Corazon}


The common denominators are Rean + Jampidampi.


Jampidampi is terrible as he refused to commit to anything accusations on rayn last night (from recollection)
Rean is terrible for that post he made. It reads as if he knew he was not getting lynched so decided to keep quiet.

I dont like holyflare, but hes low priority for me - over the next cyles Im sure if he is town he can start proving it.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 03:52 GMT
#1106
On November 22 2013 12:48 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 12:41 Mocsta wrote:
On November 22 2013 12:32 Holyflare wrote:
Onegu is someone who prides himself in reading rayn, he even started to call him town at his last post before he afk'd. If he knew rayn was displaying his towny attributes why did he not try and convince any of you that he wasn't scum?

Well, his last post was at like 3am.. i dunno


So.. am I still scum to you?


From what I've read so far, I mean, you of all people have played with rayn and that vote just now was pure policy. You know I have also played with rayn a lot and so when I call him town based on what I've read you shouldn't throw it away and still lynch him. Yes he may have been obnoxious and shit flinging but that is because he was quite clearly annoyed at people. He was emotionally invested. It is hard to fake it the way he did and whether he was annoying or not a towny is a towny. You actively went against a win con because you did not want to play with him again.

THAT is scummy. There was Aqua who blatantly disregarded anything rayn said at all. The crux of it comes down to this: He had reads on people that disagreed with thread sentiment. He thought he was correct in those reads and shit things up, so what part of that would have been scummy to you? He went balls to the wall defending someone other people think is scum. Do you think he'd associate that strongly with someone if he was scum? That is not how rayn plays at all.

WTF is this.
I asked if i am scum to you.

And you respond with:
This is something you did "that is scummy".

So i ask again.. am i scum to you?


Lastly, I never shied away from stating it was a policy lynch.
I find it funny how you come here and stand on your high horse. Why didnt you give your tells for a town rayn 2 hrs ago when it was actually relevant and useful?
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
November 22 2013 03:53 GMT
#1107
Why are you asking me if you are scum if quite clearly I gave your name in a list of people I want to lynch then??
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 03:54 GMT
#1108
On November 22 2013 12:48 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 12:27 Aquanim wrote:
On November 22 2013 12:20 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 22 2013 12:14 Aquanim wrote:
On November 22 2013 12:10 cDgCorazon wrote:
Doesn't Onegu's vote look really scummy with Rayn's flip?

I'm not sure why Onegu's vote looks scummier due to Rayn's flip. Unless you're saying he didn't want to take responsibility for the Rayn lynch... which would apply to you in spades too. Could you clarify?

Onegu dropped a vote away from Rayn and then peaced out.

What would scum do if they knew town Rayn was probably going to be lynched 12 hours in advance? They wouldn't all pack on the Rayn wagon. That would be too obvious for a scum team. Wouldn't it make sense for Onegu to put a vote on Moc in the middle of the Rayn tunnel to look like he was making an effort to scum-hunt and then be able to distance himself from a Rayn lynch?

I was transparent with my stance on Rayn and my decision to no-lynch. Onegu was very shady about it and I think it's because he is hiding the fact that he is scum.

That's a fair point.

Do you think the same applies to jampidampi and Rean, who both left their votes on me without pushing my lynch at all seriously? Personally I doubt they're all scum but I think there's at least one and possibly two scum in {Jampidampi, Rean, Onegu}.

And that's what should be the focal point of N1.

Interesting, ties in precisely with my post on reads from 1st half of day1.

Btw, i agere you were very transparent. I also think the action to no-lynch vs vote someone else was pretty townie.
Because in my mind it attempts to force a discussion on all remaining people vs just the new vote recipient.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
November 22 2013 03:54 GMT
#1109
I'm also displaying to the thread that you are actively participating in losing this game on purpose.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 03:54 GMT
#1110
On November 22 2013 12:53 Holyflare wrote:
Why are you asking me if you are scum if quite clearly I gave your name in a list of people I want to lynch then??

Because I re-evaluate my reads after flips.

Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 03:55 GMT
#1111
On November 22 2013 12:52 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 12:48 Holyflare wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 22 2013 12:41 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 12:32 Holyflare wrote:
Onegu is someone who prides himself in reading rayn, he even started to call him town at his last post before he afk'd. If he knew rayn was displaying his towny attributes why did he not try and convince any of you that he wasn't scum?

Well, his last post was at like 3am.. i dunno


So.. am I still scum to you?


From what I've read so far, I mean, you of all people have played with rayn and that vote just now was pure policy. You know I have also played with rayn a lot and so when I call him town based on what I've read you shouldn't throw it away and still lynch him. Yes he may have been obnoxious and shit flinging but that is because he was quite clearly annoyed at people. He was emotionally invested. It is hard to fake it the way he did and whether he was annoying or not a towny is a towny. You actively went against a win con because you did not want to play with him again.

THAT is scummy. There was Aqua who blatantly disregarded anything rayn said at all. The crux of it comes down to this: He had reads on people that disagreed with thread sentiment. He thought he was correct in those reads and shit things up, so what part of that would have been scummy to you? He went balls to the wall defending someone other people think is scum. Do you think he'd associate that strongly with someone if he was scum? That is not how rayn plays at all.

WTF is this.
I asked if i am scum to you.

And you respond with:
This is something you did "that is scummy".

So i ask again.. am i scum to you?


Lastly, I never shied away from stating it was a policy lynch.
I find it funny how you come here and stand on your high horse.
Why didnt you give your tells for a town rayn 2 hrs ago when it was actually relevant and useful?

This was a question to you Holyflare
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 03:56 GMT
#1112
EBWOP
On November 22 2013 12:52 Mocsta wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 22 2013 12:48 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 12:41 Mocsta wrote:
On November 22 2013 12:32 Holyflare wrote:
Onegu is someone who prides himself in reading rayn, he even started to call him town at his last post before he afk'd. If he knew rayn was displaying his towny attributes why did he not try and convince any of you that he wasn't scum?

Well, his last post was at like 3am.. i dunno


So.. am I still scum to you?


From what I've read so far, I mean, you of all people have played with rayn and that vote just now was pure policy. You know I have also played with rayn a lot and so when I call him town based on what I've read you shouldn't throw it away and still lynch him. Yes he may have been obnoxious and shit flinging but that is because he was quite clearly annoyed at people. He was emotionally invested. It is hard to fake it the way he did and whether he was annoying or not a towny is a towny. You actively went against a win con because you did not want to play with him again.

THAT is scummy. There was Aqua who blatantly disregarded anything rayn said at all. The crux of it comes down to this: He had reads on people that disagreed with thread sentiment. He thought he was correct in those reads and shit things up, so what part of that would have been scummy to you? He went balls to the wall defending someone other people think is scum. Do you think he'd associate that strongly with someone if he was scum? That is not how rayn plays at all.

WTF is this.
I asked if i am scum to you.

And you respond with:
This is something you did "that is scummy".

So i ask again.. am i scum to you?


Lastly, I never shied away from stating it was a policy lynch.
I find it funny how you come here and stand on your high horse.

Why didnt you give your tells for a town rayn 2 hrs ago when it was actually relevant and useful?

This was a question to you Holyflare
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
November 22 2013 03:58 GMT
#1113
I told you them in LXIII, a game in which both you and thrawn were/are in. How do you not know what rayn town tells are by now?
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
November 22 2013 03:59 GMT
#1114
Thrawn also quite clearly posted in bold and all caps that rayn was most definitely town and also voted him. So there's that too.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
November 22 2013 04:00 GMT
#1115
Let me break this down for everyone else:

Onegu posts that rayn is town, onegu knows rayn's meta (thrawn and mocsta know this)
Mocsta sees onegu is afk, doesn't try and confirm rayn's meta to people, policy lynches him
Thrawn, calls rayn obviously towny, lynches him
Aqua, ignores everything rayn says, policy lynches him

1 of you is scum
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 04:02 GMT
#1116
On November 22 2013 13:00 Holyflare wrote:
Let me break this down for everyone else:

Onegu posts that rayn is town, onegu knows rayn's meta (thrawn and mocsta know this)
Mocsta sees onegu is afk, doesn't try and confirm rayn's meta to people, policy lynches him
Thrawn, calls rayn obviously towny, lynches him
Aqua, ignores everything rayn says, policy lynches him

1 of you is scum

Why only 1?

What does me seeing Onegu be AFK have to do with anything?

Break this down further.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
November 22 2013 04:07 GMT
#1117
at least 1*

Onegu calls a person he can read well based off of meta town. You do not try and read into this any further or use it to stop a rayn lynch and then you just ask me why I didn't do the same thing? I clearly did not have as much time as you did to elaborate.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 04:11 GMT
#1118
Btw,
I think Thrawn is town. I did very much 24hrs ago; and his compulsion to keep swapping votes is towny to me.
It could put him heavily under suspicion when rayn flipped town, and frankly, was unnecessary as scum play.

I thought Aqua was town from 24hrs ago as well. Holy states that aqua is ignoring everything, but that is not my opinion. If anything, Aqua can't stop bantering back with Rayn. Again, this is over done knowing it is a town flip. Aqua could have easily nested on his read - but he did not. I have a town lean on him, but wiill still be reading his cases carefully (and with Rayn gone I expect more output like cases from him)

Me: I was transparent about policy. You want to call that mafia, whatever. I knwo this game is 100% different to my recent scum game. Nothing more needs to be said + I dont knwo why you keep insinuating I am intimate with Rayns meta. I have expectations of his play, but I am not a connoiseur of him at all.


Onegu: Looks pretty bad I agree regardless of AFK.

Anyway mocsta is my biggest scumread now. Also Rayn is a terrible lynch today please change, ill try to be up for deadline but no promises.
This in particular. Nothing to do with the AFK its got to do with how he went about the situation.
He gives rayn a town read, and forces town to consider Rayns thread opposition (me)

Compare this to Corazon who is trying to avoid continuing this ego battle - Onegu instead fans the flames.

Onegu *is* scum

Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 04:12 GMT
#1119
On November 22 2013 13:07 Holyflare wrote:
at least 1*

Onegu calls a person he can read well based off of meta town. You do not try and read into this any further or use it to stop a rayn lynch and then you just ask me why I didn't do the same thing? I clearly did not have as much time as you did to elaborate.

Another high-horse rider.

You were more than happy to chime in your tidbits.

Anyways, all you are doing is providing summaries of posts i can read.
You are not attributing scum motive to anything you are saying.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
November 22 2013 04:17 GMT
#1120
No scum motive? Rayn is a good player, he plays a lot and he can actually find scum. What better way to get him out than agree with policy lynching him. You didn't have to explain onegu's town read to anyone because they didn't care "hey rayn is shitting up the thread so it doesn't matter if he dies k". The fact that you don't have more reasons for lynching rayn over other scum reads than policy is a scum motive because IT ACTIVELY FIGHTS THE WIN CON.

I don't know what else you want????
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