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On October 29 2013 05:53 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
I don't understand the suspicion on Koshi, to me it looks like a carbon copy of his play as town in Noir. Maybe a shade more reserved, but still relatively casual, low-content posts. All that's left is him blindly tunneling someone.
Anything else? When does your power kick in?
On October 29 2013 05:54 Pandain wrote:
But I didn't realize your probably a mason role. I thought you were using a power to have another effect on someone which wouldn't be justifiable literally unless its a mason role.
On October 29 2013 05:57 Pandain wrote:
Basically nothing I did was scummy I think I just explained myself poorly yesterday.
From my standpoint you were not trying to find out his alignment, you were trying to create a friendship to help you. And that friendship to be formed wouldn't have been justifiable if your town because you don't know his alignment.
I just forgot masons
Have you read the thread?
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On October 29 2013 05:59 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2013 05:10 Pandain wrote:On October 28 2013 23:29 Seuss wrote:On October 28 2013 22:44 WaveofShadow wrote:
Hai marv.
I can talk about Prome for just a little bit atm if you'd like, but I'm nor sure how long I'll be around so we won't be able to pick each other's brains as per usual. What exactly were you saving up regarding your townread of him to tell me?
Oh and regarding Seuss (monte it's so weird to call you that) he seems pretty town to me. Like he said I coached him and his behaviour falls pretty in line with his last newbie, as well as what you determined to be him rolefishing. I give him the WaveofShadow newbie stamp of approval for now, though I would really like to hear some reads from him, as I know he is pretty capable of good analysis with way less to work with than has been posted in this thread. Yay stamp of approval. Now that I'm not distracted by marv here are my current thoughts. Promethelax: Probably town. When I, an unknown entity, entered the thread his first response was to solicit my opinion in a neutral way, and keep drawing more information from me regarding my mindset. This was good, pro-town play, as it lets him and everyone else get the chance to form a read on me. In general I'd call him inquisitive, he likes poking where there's gaps in information. He's been a bit more confrontational with some of the other posters, but confrontational isn't inherently anti-town. Without him we'd probably know a lot less right now. I can get why people would find his "I can't meta Pandain" and apparent lack of scum reads concerning, but on the whole I think he's clearly town. strongandbig: No idea, but unless he starts posting a crapton before the voting deadline I think we're better off pursuing someone else. We stand to learn absolutely nothing by lynching him, though applying pressure might help loosen his tongue.Oatsmaster: Maybe scum. There's still a lot of "if so-and-so is Y, so-and-so #2 is X" without an explanation of the logic. I don't think it makes sense for him to give marv a pass for not talking about who he doesn't want to talk about, but not give Promethelax a similar pass for not following up where he doesn't want to follow up. He says he's made a strong case but you have to go back through about 30 posts and pick it up in bits and pieces, which is time consuming and not all that convincing. I realize this may just be his posting style and "meta" or whatever, but I find it obfuscates information more than I'd like. You guys move faster than I can analyze and parse. Waugh. Very poor post, list format instead of comprehensive. Also what is the middle paragraph which is a basic "I don't know." Also his other posts are really wishy-washy and constantly changing. I do think he's worth looking out for though shouldn't be a lynch target today. I don't think you should find my middle paragraph so surprising, I was just following up on an earlier post of mine: Show nested quote +On October 28 2013 13:28 Seuss wrote:
That said, what was with strongandbig's Vanilla Town claim? He just appeared, claimed, and disappeared. Is this another "that's just strongandbig" thing? Which was completely ignored, but probably with good reason as other interesting conversations were happening at the time and, admittedly, there's not much going on here. I was struggling with the whole "meta" thing a bit at the time because I'd been rebuffed fairly dismissively on "meta" ground for being suspicious of Oatsmaster. You say I was bullshitting, but I had very clear goals when I made that post: Give my strongest town read, my strongest scum read, and follow up briefly on the only independent post I made. Was there anything wrong with my other two reads beyond being in list format? As a final, somewhat unrelated question, what is this "comprehensive" format you're talking about (as far as I can tell it's basically list format without colons), and why is it better?
I'd assume devoting a post to each person and using specific evidence to advance your argument.
On October 29 2013 06:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2013 05:53 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
I don't understand the suspicion on Koshi, to me it looks like a carbon copy of his play as town in Noir. Maybe a shade more reserved, but still relatively casual, low-content posts. All that's left is him blindly tunneling someone. Anything else? When does your power kick in?
I have said everything I need to say about the power. Patience, my son.
HotCottonCandy are you a smurf? Your lack of meta irks me.
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On October 29 2013 05:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2013 05:13 Seuss wrote:On October 29 2013 05:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 29 2013 05:02 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On October 29 2013 04:45 Seuss wrote:On October 29 2013 03:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Another thing that bothers me is Seuss. When he last left the building, we had an argument going on. He never answered me after he got back. So hey Seuss, i think we got something going on between us and i think it's your turn to say something Sorry, you got lost in the shuffle. I saw your point about Pandain's initial attack, but didn't respond directly since I was trying to catch up on the rest of the thread. I concede your point on Pandain's initial attack. That was obviously a joke and Pandain should definitely have dropped that line of attack. We were talking past each other a lot earlier, as I was focused primarily on your delegate/undelegate and you must have been focused on your joke.For the record your delegate/undelegate still bothers me. I looked through your arguments and your only defense when Pandain brought it up was to deflect attention by bringing up his fixation on your first joke action, so I don't think this is particularly resolved (though you obviously undid whatever it was). That said, with Pandain and Clarity_nl up on the chopping block right now that's a matter which can rest until later, especially as marvellosity will possibly have some new insights on it tomorrow. I touched on this earlier, both in this post and in an earlier one, but I agree with Oatsmaster that Pandain's unwillingness to drop his vote when it was clear you were joking is suspicious. If that was all there was to it I'd write it off as a mistake, but he came out with that weak "late night emotions" excuse, and since hasn't been doing a good job arguing in his defense. He's got one post and all it says is: On October 29 2013 00:40 Pandain wrote:On October 29 2013 00:31 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 29 2013 00:19 Seuss wrote:On October 29 2013 00:09 Oatsmaster wrote:Sorry man Seuss, I have problems explaining myself coherently  The Prome and WoS was something I was thinking about. It's alright, it doesn't help that my pace is apparently half that of the thread so I'm constantly playing catch up. I agree with you that Pandain's vote on rayn is bullshit, but what are you going to do if Pandain drops it? How critical is that vote to your read? With how the argument is set up Pandain looks pretty damned either way. If he keeps his vote there he's scum because it's stupid, but if he retracts his vote it was under duress and you can still paint him as scum. I'm curious because outside of Pandain's odd vote and "emotional late at night" excuse I don't read his actions are particularly scummy. It doesnt matter that he drops it now. Its that he didnt drop it when it became very very clear that Rayn was joking. Yet problem is I found other reasons which were good to me and still were until he upped his game. First half Rayn was real poor play overall It's just another weak excuse. Maybe I'm misreading, but it sounds like he's saying his own reasons for keeping his vote on your are no longer valid, so why is his vote still on you? I don't get it. Regarding Clarity_nl, I understand why people think he's a decent target but I'm not sold on it. I do find his recent thread exit conspicuous and confusing, but as a scum play it's seems bad to run in, make people think you're scum, and exit stage right. The criticism of his initial post was warranted, but for most of his follow up posts if you'd hidden the names and made me try to choose between him, Oatsmaster, and you (rayn) I wouldn't have been able to do it. This is all made more awkward by the fact that neither Pandain nor Clarity_nl are here to defend themselves any more. While I was writing this we apparently started analyzing Koshi, so at least we won't be listless. The bolded part. I especially stated i am not talking about my power use on marv (like Oats pointed out aswell - Pandain called out my first obvjoke). About the power use. Pandain should know, that if anyone in this game, i am able to fake this kinda stuff. My question to you still stands (same thing i asked from Pandain). Why is he calling me out on something that he can't even know what it means. There is no possible way he can know what power i used on marv. Like Prome said it earlier, what if it is a mason power? Why bring up something that you can't possibly say is alignment indicative given the information you have available? To me it looks like he is calling me out for the sake of calling me out. There is absolutely no reason anyone should think i am scum because of i used a power on marv, as you can't possibly tell what the power in question is. That's a fact and i do not know why Pandain makes a case on me based on that (and other stupid stuff) and why you do feel the same. goddamn. for filter. By itself your use of a power on marv is not proof of scumhood, it's just a point of data. Like it or not, it's going to fit into the narrative of raynpelikoneet for the rest of the game. It stands out amongst everything else you've done because it's an actual use of power and marv is going to reap the consequences or benefits tonight. I don't think anyone can make a case against you solely based on that, but you're probably going to be hearing a lot about it as the game goes on. Thanks for clarifying that you didn't succeed in cancelling it by the way. Although it would likely have come out tomorrow anyway, it's useful information. Of course it's a point of data. Everything is a point of data. Do you think a scum player would be more likely to out their power to someone who is town? Or do you think we are both scum with marv? Why would i as scum make a possibly target of myself regarding my power and uses of it (in case you think marv is town). How does that make sense? In case i am scum and marv is town i have given out my power and i will be held responsible of how i use it. I have no way to fuck up the town with it, i must do what's in town's best interest regarding my power and if i fail i will get lynched for it. So why is this again scummy for you in the first place?
Largely because of how you've generally been extremely evasive about it. Like I said before, when Pandain brought it up you didn't say, "This shouldn't seem scummy to you." You said, "But you got on my case because of my other action." which can't really be called a response despite all the heat Pandain's taken.
I think that in the heat of a mass power reveal is the perfect time for scum to reveal powers, and we don't really know what your power does yet so it's too early to write you off. There are a lot of possibilities when it comes to the relationship between you and marv, but they're not really relevant to the fact that you tend to change the subject quickly whenever your power comes up.
Lately you've been a little better and more forthcoming, but just as Pandain's taken a lot of heat for his vote due to its timing, I'm not going to ignore your earlier evasiveness just because you've shaped up a bit since.
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On October 29 2013 06:09 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2013 05:59 Seuss wrote:On October 29 2013 05:10 Pandain wrote:On October 28 2013 23:29 Seuss wrote:On October 28 2013 22:44 WaveofShadow wrote:
Hai marv.
I can talk about Prome for just a little bit atm if you'd like, but I'm nor sure how long I'll be around so we won't be able to pick each other's brains as per usual. What exactly were you saving up regarding your townread of him to tell me?
Oh and regarding Seuss (monte it's so weird to call you that) he seems pretty town to me. Like he said I coached him and his behaviour falls pretty in line with his last newbie, as well as what you determined to be him rolefishing. I give him the WaveofShadow newbie stamp of approval for now, though I would really like to hear some reads from him, as I know he is pretty capable of good analysis with way less to work with than has been posted in this thread. Yay stamp of approval. Now that I'm not distracted by marv here are my current thoughts. Promethelax: Probably town. When I, an unknown entity, entered the thread his first response was to solicit my opinion in a neutral way, and keep drawing more information from me regarding my mindset. This was good, pro-town play, as it lets him and everyone else get the chance to form a read on me. In general I'd call him inquisitive, he likes poking where there's gaps in information. He's been a bit more confrontational with some of the other posters, but confrontational isn't inherently anti-town. Without him we'd probably know a lot less right now. I can get why people would find his "I can't meta Pandain" and apparent lack of scum reads concerning, but on the whole I think he's clearly town. strongandbig: No idea, but unless he starts posting a crapton before the voting deadline I think we're better off pursuing someone else. We stand to learn absolutely nothing by lynching him, though applying pressure might help loosen his tongue.Oatsmaster: Maybe scum. There's still a lot of "if so-and-so is Y, so-and-so #2 is X" without an explanation of the logic. I don't think it makes sense for him to give marv a pass for not talking about who he doesn't want to talk about, but not give Promethelax a similar pass for not following up where he doesn't want to follow up. He says he's made a strong case but you have to go back through about 30 posts and pick it up in bits and pieces, which is time consuming and not all that convincing. I realize this may just be his posting style and "meta" or whatever, but I find it obfuscates information more than I'd like. You guys move faster than I can analyze and parse. Waugh. Very poor post, list format instead of comprehensive. Also what is the middle paragraph which is a basic "I don't know." Also his other posts are really wishy-washy and constantly changing. I do think he's worth looking out for though shouldn't be a lynch target today. I don't think you should find my middle paragraph so surprising, I was just following up on an earlier post of mine: On October 28 2013 13:28 Seuss wrote:
That said, what was with strongandbig's Vanilla Town claim? He just appeared, claimed, and disappeared. Is this another "that's just strongandbig" thing? Which was completely ignored, but probably with good reason as other interesting conversations were happening at the time and, admittedly, there's not much going on here. I was struggling with the whole "meta" thing a bit at the time because I'd been rebuffed fairly dismissively on "meta" ground for being suspicious of Oatsmaster. You say I was bullshitting, but I had very clear goals when I made that post: Give my strongest town read, my strongest scum read, and follow up briefly on the only independent post I made. Was there anything wrong with my other two reads beyond being in list format? As a final, somewhat unrelated question, what is this "comprehensive" format you're talking about (as far as I can tell it's basically list format without colons), and why is it better? I'd assume devoting a post to each person and using specific evidence to advance your argument.
Except he went hog wild for this post from rayn:
On October 29 2013 03:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Okay marv this looks much better. First things first. You will not get the PM until the deadline, i asked about it from the hosts. This is important. As that is the case, consider my twerk null. Another interesting thing. Your Promethelax "townslip" thingy, or what makes you think he is town. I find that reasonable, although i am not sure if i agree with that. I know i could, as scum, do what you are giving Prome a townread for. What is really interesting about it is WoS' reaction to the post. He doesn't seem to be agreeing with what you said as his vote yet remains on Prome. That's not what's weird in it however, what is weird is that he does not address the post in any way, he just let's it be like it didn't happen. If he thinks that does not make Prome town, why not say "i disagree" or something, as, by default, he should disagree with the post in case he still has a scumread on Prome.
WaveofShadow why did you not say at any point, that you disagree with marv's reasoning about Prome being town and how does that not make sense? Why you just skip over the post and not address it in any way?
I agree what's been said about Clarity, his case on Oats makes no sense given Oats' play this game and their history. If anything, Oats could be scum for making more sense than usual, but the reasons Clarity brings up are definitely bullshit. ^^
Another thing that bothers me is Seuss. When he last left the building, we had an argument going on. He never answered me after he got back. So hey Seuss, i think we got something going on between us and i think it's your turn to say something.
Prome, what do you think of marv's reasoning on you being town? Do you think he is right in what he says?
I also agree with what's been said about Koshi. He's really "quiet" and doesn't seem to be trying to do anything...
Which, as far as I can tell, is similar to what I did except he didn't use colons or bold text. Just imagine the paragraphs starting with marv:, WaveOfShadow: etc. and I don't see the difference.
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Oh god that post is so bad...
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EBWOP: I don't mean the last post but the post above..
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On October 29 2013 06:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oh god that post is so bad...
Care to elaborate?
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On October 29 2013 00:19 Promethelax wrote:how do you feel about your double town reads reading marv as town? Both Oats and I have a lot of out of game time with marv and are good at reading him based on meta. You might remember (or might not) MTG II where I correctly read marv/you as town while Acro pushed for his lynch and I managed to dissuade the thread from that 'lynch' based on my meta read. I see similar things here. What I'm saying is: 1) marv is good as town 2) both your town reads have a history of reading marv well 3)both your town reads read marv as town 4) why, therefore, do you not believe marv is town? If you believe Oats and I are town you believe in our motivation being townie. You know I am capable of reading marv even against thread sentiment (see above example or look at personality (don't look at personality)) so explain the part I'm missing.
an answer to this then i go back to work
anyway in general my reads on players don't influence my evaluations of their logic. just because oats is town doesn't make him any more likely to be right with his reads; in fact, it probably makes him less likely to be correct.
i have almost certainly played more games with marv than you. i've probably read him correctly in a number of those games. that doesn't mean i think i can determine his alignment on day 1
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You can't call me out for being evasive as i wanted to use a power on marv, you yourself said claiming powers is bad, and now i am scummy for being evasive about my power. What, should i claim?
Also the first chapter is a straight out lie.
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Let me be more clear. This is what you say:
Largely because of how you've generally been extremely evasive about it. Like I said before, when Pandain brought it up you didn't say, "This shouldn't seem scummy to you." You said, "But you got on my case because of my other action." which can't really be called a response despite all the heat Pandain's taken.
This is what i have been saying all the time:
On October 28 2013 08:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Okay Pandain this has gone to role fishing. Stop it already. There is nothing alignment indicative in my role use, at least nothing scummy.
On October 28 2013 08:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2013 08:52 Pandain wrote:
I don't want your role, I think it's suspicious for a blue to reveal its effects to an unverified character.
You can't possibly say that if you do not know the effects.
Now explain. Please.
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On October 29 2013 06:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:
You can't call me out for being evasive as i wanted to use a power on marv, you yourself said claiming powers is bad, and now i am scummy for being evasive about my power. What, should i claim?
Also the first chapter is a straight out lie.
It's not about claiming. You could simply say, "I can't answer short of claiming." Instead you change the subject.
The first "chapter" (paragraph) references this post:
On October 28 2013 14:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +Either you totally bullshitted and bullshitted for three posts which I couldn't know you were lying or it's super obvious that you used a power on Marv. Pandain why are you using this as a reasoning to why i am scum when it's clear that you voted for me because of my earlier "power use" that should have been an obvious joke for you?
You don't really address his suggestion at all. Like I said before, I'll grant that popular opinion is that Pandain got up in your grill for no reason and he's currently set to be lynched as a result, but that doesn't change the fact that you completely avoided his argument here.
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On October 29 2013 06:19 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2013 00:19 Promethelax wrote:On October 28 2013 23:56 strongandbig wrote:
##Yolo promethelax
my b how do you feel about your double town reads reading marv as town? Both Oats and I have a lot of out of game time with marv and are good at reading him based on meta. You might remember (or might not) MTG II where I correctly read marv/you as town while Acro pushed for his lynch and I managed to dissuade the thread from that 'lynch' based on my meta read. I see similar things here. What I'm saying is: 1) marv is good as town 2) both your town reads have a history of reading marv well 3)both your town reads read marv as town 4) why, therefore, do you not believe marv is town? If you believe Oats and I are town you believe in our motivation being townie. You know I am capable of reading marv even against thread sentiment (see above example or look at personality (don't look at personality)) so explain the part I'm missing. an answer to this then i go back to work anyway in general my reads on players don't influence my evaluations of their logic. just because oats is town doesn't make him any more likely to be right with his reads; in fact, it probably makes him less likely to be correct. i have almost certainly played more games with marv than you. i've probably read him correctly in a number of those games. that doesn't mean i think i can determine his alignment on day 1
You'll note that's why I bring up out if game friendship. There was a period of six moths where Marv and I sent PMs back and forth willy nilly and talked about every ongoing game in some detail as long as we weren't both in it. It got to the somewhat silly point that when he smurfed into a large normal I sent him a pm d1 saying I knew the smurf was him and that he was town. I can read him day one.
Rayn: as to marv's reasoning yes and no. It's a good reason to give me a town lean but I wouldn't base a whole read on me for it. Part of the trouble being I haven't been scum in a while. My last anti town game was CC and I was the serial killer. I'd like to think I'd play well as scum should I roll it again but I haven't had the chance to see in a while. So Marv is assuming I haven't suddenly reverted to a scum maestro which I haven't.
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I said at first he was rolefishing, because to me it sounded like (1) he wanted to know if i actually did use a power or not or (2) if i did, based on what he said earlier, he was rolefishing (because somehow it would be scummy for me to use a power).
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##Day 1 ##Vote ##Count
raynpelikoneet (0): Pandain
Promethelax (1): WaveofShadow
Pandain (3): raynpelikoneet, Oatsmaster, OOHCHILD
[UoN]Sentinel (1): HotCottonCandy
Clarity_nl (2): marvellosity, Pandain
Not voting (6): Promethelax, [UoN]Sentinel, Koshi, strongandbig, Seuss, Clarity_nl
Current, Pandain is set to be ##lynched!
The ##lynch will happen in ## at ##21:00 GMT (+00:00).
Please let us know if there are ##errors.
Voting Thread
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On October 29 2013 06:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2013 05:53 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
I don't understand the suspicion on Koshi, to me it looks like a carbon copy of his play as town in Noir. Maybe a shade more reserved, but still relatively casual, low-content posts. All that's left is him blindly tunneling someone. Anything else? When does your power kick in? Show nested quote +On October 29 2013 05:54 Pandain wrote:
But I didn't realize your probably a mason role. I thought you were using a power to have another effect on someone which wouldn't be justifiable literally unless its a mason role. Show nested quote +On October 29 2013 05:57 Pandain wrote:
Basically nothing I did was scummy I think I just explained myself poorly yesterday.
From my standpoint you were not trying to find out his alignment, you were trying to create a friendship to help you. And that friendship to be formed wouldn't have been justifiable if your town because you don't know his alignment.
I just forgot masons Have you read the thread?
I think you fundamentally just don't understand where I'm coming from which makes sense since your biased with your own information
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"Test"
Pop quiz: who am I quoting?
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I kinda want to lynch the OOHCHILD dude..
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I think it is Dandel Ion. But he isn't yelling meta yet 24/7 yet so I am not sure yet.
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ah no. That's the other guy. Candyman.
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On October 29 2013 06:40 Promethelax wrote:
"Test"
Pop quiz: who am I quoting?
That reminds me, where did oohchild go?
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EPT
