EPT"##" Mafia - Page 38
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OOHCHILD
United States570 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + He has also already posted 6 pages worth of shit, and they're all good. Indicative of town He really thought hard about Prom and I love what he said about Prom being way too cocky, I actually had a null read on him but now I think I have a moderate town read on him, probably not as "sure" in it as Marv. + Show Spoiler + he also wasn't a dick to me Originally I disagreed with Seuss being scummy but now I agree, with some addendums. Here is Marv's post: On October 28 2013 18:21 marvellosity wrote: The bolded sentence looks like fairly baseless and unwarranted criticism. Given I, and presumably others, actually literally require people to type specific things in the thread to use our powers, how else should we have gone about it, in your opinion? I can't keep the entirety of my role a secret, because then I don't have a role. To the underlined, we've already had one vanilla town claim; are you calling that player a liar? Are you disagreeing with at least one other player (that I forget) who suggested it's unlikely we all have powers? To the red, interesting that your mindset is to try to workout what powers these blues/powers have. Why would you even speculate on that right now if you're town? Much more of a mafia mindset. I don't like your whole post basically. However I disagree with this slight suspicion of Seuss. Now if Seuss had written out his post during the course of 5 hours and thought very clearly and wanted to be 100% consistant, it would be suspicious (though still not scummy). His bolded statement mirrored my thoughts and is a defendable statement even if it isn't 100% justifiable since yes some people need others for their powers. The underlined is clearly just poor reading and doesn't indicate scum. The red statement is interesting however and important to think about. There are better reasons to be suspicious of Seuss On October 28 2013 23:29 Seuss wrote: Yay stamp of approval. Now that I'm not distracted by marv here are my current thoughts. Promethelax: Probably town. When I, an unknown entity, entered the thread his first response was to solicit my opinion in a neutral way, and keep drawing more information from me regarding my mindset. This was good, pro-town play, as it lets him and everyone else get the chance to form a read on me. In general I'd call him inquisitive, he likes poking where there's gaps in information. He's been a bit more confrontational with some of the other posters, but confrontational isn't inherently anti-town. Without him we'd probably know a lot less right now. I can get why people would find his "I can't meta Pandain" and apparent lack of scum reads concerning, but on the whole I think he's clearly town. strongandbig: No idea, but unless he starts posting a crapton before the voting deadline I think we're better off pursuing someone else. We stand to learn absolutely nothing by lynching him, though applying pressure might help loosen his tongue. Oatsmaster: Maybe scum. There's still a lot of "if so-and-so is Y, so-and-so #2 is X" without an explanation of the logic. I don't think it makes sense for him to give marv a pass for not talking about who he doesn't want to talk about, but not give Promethelax a similar pass for not following up where he doesn't want to follow up. He says he's made a strong case but you have to go back through about 30 posts and pick it up in bits and pieces, which is time consuming and not all that convincing. I realize this may just be his posting style and "meta" or whatever, but I find it obfuscates information more than I'd like. You guys move faster than I can analyze and parse. Waugh. Very poor post, list format instead of comprehensive. Also what is the middle paragraph which is a basic "I don't know." Also his other posts are really wishy-washy and constantly changing. I do think he's worth looking out for though shouldn't be a lynch target today. I do agree Clarity is suspicious, made a poor post which only focused on one person. It is so incredibly assumption based and wouldn't be what I expect Clarity to be suspicious of. He says Oats is suspicious because he didn't add to what someone else said. On October 28 2013 22:47 Clarity_nl wrote: So, it's cool that you both thought yuck at the same time apparently, but then don't just ignore me and talk to eachother, explain. I don't know why but this post bothers me Then Marv calls him out and he immediately back tracks I also think Koshi is suspicious. Where is carefree Koshi? He's so defensive. He also isn't attempting to buddy Rayn which I have seen in all my past games which I'm pretty sure they've both been in them all. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
By itself your use of a power on marv is not proof of scumhood, it's just a point of data. Like it or not, it's going to fit into the narrative of raynpelikoneet for the rest of the game. It stands out amongst everything else you've done because it's an actual use of power and marv is going to reap the consequences or benefits tonight. I don't think anyone can make a case against you solely based on that, but you're probably going to be hearing a lot about it as the game goes on. Thanks for clarifying that you didn't succeed in cancelling it by the way. Although it would likely have come out tomorrow anyway, it's useful information. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
However if it's anything else there's no real justification for it as it reveals your role, unless, I forgot, the purpose of the role itself is to reveal it! You also upped your game and are being town. I forgot another thing, this: On October 29 2013 03:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay marv this looks much better. First things first. You will not get the PM until the deadline, i asked about it from the hosts. This is important. As that is the case, consider my twerk null. Another interesting thing. Your Promethelax "townslip" thingy, or what makes you think he is town. I find that reasonable, although i am not sure if i agree with that. I know i could, as scum, do what you are giving Prome a townread for. What is really interesting about it is WoS' reaction to the post. He doesn't seem to be agreeing with what you said as his vote yet remains on Prome. That's not what's weird in it however, what is weird is that he does not address the post in any way, he just let's it be like it didn't happen. If he thinks that does not make Prome town, why not say "i disagree" or something, as, by default, he should disagree with the post in case he still has a scumread on Prome. WaveofShadow why did you not say at any point, that you disagree with marv's reasoning about Prome being town and how does that not make sense? Why you just skip over the post and not address it in any way? I agree what's been said about Clarity, his case on Oats makes no sense given Oats' play this game and their history. If anything, Oats could be scum for making more sense than usual, but the reasons Clarity brings up are definitely bullshit. ^^ Another thing that bothers me is Seuss. When he last left the building, we had an argument going on. He never answered me after he got back. So hey Seuss, i think we got something going on between us and i think it's your turn to say something. Prome, what do you think of marv's reasoning on you being town? Do you think he is right in what he says? I also agree with what's been said about Koshi. He's really "quiet" and doesn't seem to be trying to do anything... On an unrelated note (and i just post this because this is what has been bothering me in mafia sonce forever): + Show Spoiler + On October 28 2013 20:30 marvellosity wrote: This is the attempt I'm going to make to reach out to you. I'm doing so under the assumption that you're a new(er) player. Firstly, and it's been mentioned already, there is absolutely no reason to shut down discussion like you have here. If you're town, then being open and frank about your thought process is an exceedingly good way to prove your alignment, which is obviously a pretty damn important thing. Secondly, you have absolutely no reason to condescend to someone like you've done here. It might be vaguely understandable if you were a known excellent player who had the clout to condescend, but you aren't (as far as I'm aware). There is literally no benefit to belittle rayn like this while he is trying to question you. My problem with you, and it's a large one, is this. On one hand you are doing: 1) telling people how they will have conversations with you, arrogantly condescending to you and on the other hand you are doing this: 2) going "oh gosh, i want to vote for this player, how do I do it hehehehe?" (my sexy paraphrasing) This is a pretty unfortunate mix of arrogance and playing the newbie card. If you're town, shape up. Goddamn marv, i envy you. Purely because these kinda posts are the reason that makes me understand why you are listened in these games and i am not. This post is so town in a number of ways. Comprehensive, shows interest in getting opinion out. Good points, so either I'm bad or we're on same scum trail And the last post really strikes me as such a town thing to do. It's really hard to fake those kinds of posts. Rayn is obviously trying to prove himself in this game since there are so many other good players and he has recently wanted to try to up his game to the next level. It's dangerous to buddy Marv because that encourages doctors to save him or at least promotes him staying alive and a town marv is such a huge boon for town. Or they're both mafia which is way more unlikely. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
Also do you remember the talks in our scum QT of Noir? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
Why are you buddying me (this is a semi-serious question ^^)? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On October 29 2013 05:13 Seuss wrote: By itself your use of a power on marv is not proof of scumhood, it's just a point of data. Like it or not, it's going to fit into the narrative of raynpelikoneet for the rest of the game. It stands out amongst everything else you've done because it's an actual use of power and marv is going to reap the consequences or benefits tonight. I don't think anyone can make a case against you solely based on that, but you're probably going to be hearing a lot about it as the game goes on. Thanks for clarifying that you didn't succeed in cancelling it by the way. Although it would likely have come out tomorrow anyway, it's useful information. Of course it's a point of data. Everything is a point of data. Do you think a scum player would be more likely to out their power to someone who is town? Or do you think we are both scum with marv? Why would i as scum make a possibly target of myself regarding my power and uses of it (in case you think marv is town). How does that make sense? In case i am scum and marv is town i have given out my power and i will be held responsible of how i use it. I have no way to fuck up the town with it, i must do what's in town's best interest regarding my power and if i fail i will get lynched for it. So why is this again scummy for you in the first place? | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
I don't actually mean buddying I mean being friendly to | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/GDUTeMStcTY | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On October 29 2013 05:38 Pandain wrote: In that post you praised Marvs posts and basically promoted it as an example of good town play. Scum dont want that to happen yet for reasons stated. I don't actually mean buddying I mean being friendly to The fact is you said very early on i buddied up to marv (which was incorrect), and now the spoiler you brought up is nothing alignment indicative from marv. It is a good post bet he is capable of doing that as either alignment, i like how the post presents things. And that's not buddying, it's just saying i can see why marv is good at convincing people and i lack something he has got because i doubt i could never make a post like that. That post does not to me look like a very townie post, it looks like a very convincing and reasonable one. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
Also early buddying which I guess I use the term incorrectly refers to you activating his power and then using your role on him. You basically focused on marv early on in an unjustiable matter because his alignment wasn't clear. It was actually really suspicious | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
Pandain, afaik your vote is still on me, where do you want to put it and why? | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On October 29 2013 05:47 Pandain wrote: I don't know what you're referring to now explain. Also early buddying which I guess I use the term incorrectly refers to you activating his power and then using your role on him. You basically focused on marv early on in an unjustiable matter because his alignment wasn't clear. It was actually really suspicious Yes and this is one of the things i am calling you out for. You called my reasoning for what i did bad by saying "oh god that's bad". Why, exactly is it bad? When i am town i tend to want to find out best player's affiliation, because it is a challenge to me. I am not afraid to make quick judgements and call "the best players" scum if i think they are scummy (compared to other players - i hate when there are people who say "we are not lynching XYZ on D1 just because vet"). Why was my reasoning bad for you given what i said about marv's posts about twerking early on? | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
From my standpoint you were not trying to find out his alignment, you were trying to create a friendship to help you. And that friendship to be formed wouldn't have been justifiable if your town because you don't know his alignment. I just forgot masons | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On October 29 2013 05:10 Pandain wrote: Very poor post, list format instead of comprehensive. Also what is the middle paragraph which is a basic "I don't know." Also his other posts are really wishy-washy and constantly changing. I do think he's worth looking out for though shouldn't be a lynch target today. I don't think you should find my middle paragraph so surprising, I was just following up on an earlier post of mine: On October 28 2013 13:28 Seuss wrote: That said, what was with strongandbig's Vanilla Town claim? He just appeared, claimed, and disappeared. Is this another "that's just strongandbig" thing? Which was completely ignored, but probably with good reason as other interesting conversations were happening at the time and, admittedly, there's not much going on here. I was struggling with the whole "meta" thing a bit at the time because I'd been rebuffed fairly dismissively on "meta" ground for being suspicious of Oatsmaster. You say I was bullshitting, but I had very clear goals when I made that post: Give my strongest town read, my strongest scum read, and follow up briefly on the only independent post I made. Was there anything wrong with my other two reads beyond being in list format? As a final, somewhat unrelated question, what is this "comprehensive" format you're talking about (as far as I can tell it's basically list format without colons), and why is it better? | ||
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