GoT Mafia: Lords and Liars

On July 29 2013 00:58 DrParnassus wrote:
just another reminder that everyone must participate in the nightly (24 hr phase) voting each night... please take this into account before signing up

On July 29 2013 02:34 Promethelax wrote:
I've only been gone for two months, where the hell did all these new faces come from?

On July 29 2013 14:12 Chezinu wrote:


I will Lord over the House and Cast thou vote for thee house! Whoever lives with me will understand the rules of the House of Chezinu. In the past, the House of Chezinu has tried to fight without their leader. But in this world, you who choose to live with Chezinu will be able to learn it truly means to be apart of the House of Chezinu! We will establish the house of thoughts. We will decorate our House with an emblem that is symbolic of our nature. We will devise a order that reflects our chaos! We will Rise! We will Live! We will Live IN THE HOUSE OF CHEZINU!!! Lord Chezinu shall reign the House of Chezinu! Long Live Lord Chezinu!!!

/in

On July 29 2013 22:04 gumshoe wrote:
/in

On July 29 2013 22:27 Onegu wrote:
I havent watched the show, but robert arryn was in the first two books and I doubt they left him out of the show but I will stop.

On July 30 2013 08:30 gumshoe wrote:


fuck, your in this game to? I was looking forward to actually playing, now I have to lurk...

On July 31 2013 10:04 Chromatically wrote:
What's the problem with the last player in the house being permanent lord? I think that's just something to take into consideration when choosing lynches/nks.

I like the idea of "vote values" for the 2 player houses, though.

On July 31 2013 22:53 Oberyn wrote:


It's difficult to say how things will work out without knowing the roles, house distribution or how the kp are balanced, but with only 6 votes, mafia would need to control only three houses each day to control the lynch or two houses to force town to vote perfectly. Mafia can manipulate the night hits to eliminate 1-2 lords of the houses they don't control and obtain the runner-up Lordship. Furthermore, 1-2 mafia would likely get selected as Lords through the Lord selection vote. The mafia also have the option of targeting their own house with night kills to guarantee Lordship. I'm just worried things might spiral out of control with mafia having too much influence in the day cycle too quickly.

On August 01 2013 17:23 DrParnassus wrote:


This was originally how I had it set up. I might change it to this because I think that's more interesting, but with the extra players per house a change isn't needed.

actually fuck it imma do it. that was how i originally wanted to do things, yall just gonna have to cope with the extra in-house tension

On August 02 2013 01:33 WaveofShadow wrote:

Wut
Get back in here. :D

On August 04 2013 00:06 gumshoe wrote:


Every game ive played with you, Ive felt inexplicably compelled to lurk. I dont know why. Also the first game we played was a got mafia as well so.... brace yourself.

On August 04 2013 00:43 gumshoe wrote:


There is nothing you can do, your affect on me is the result of a passive aura, do you have toggle button for it? No? I didnt think so.

On July 28 2013 23:15 DrParnassus wrote:
Cheating:
2. Ruining the game by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town.

On August 04 2013 03:30 geript wrote:
This looks absolutely awful. But I'm bored.
/in

On August 05 2013 01:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:

What are you talking about. I have 36 pages of filter in Titanic N3. I can sure split that in half and do fine. :D

On August 05 2013 23:48 kushm4sta wrote:
/in

On August 06 2013 02:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Hosts won´t let us play. :/

On August 06 2013 17:40 Clarity_nl wrote:


Either I cannot into counting or you don't live in Finland but I think it's 6 pm for you.
I guess the other possibility is you wake up at 6 pm!

On August 08 2013 15:16 Grackaroni wrote:
Iamperfection I am null on. We've talked to each other less than I have talked to anyone else and probably less than he has talked to anybody else as well. He believes that I have been apathetic towards the game but quite frankly I think I've been putting in plenty of effort. I voted him in the early phase of the game because he said he wanted to use the lord's pm's to pressure people for reads. Afterwards I tried to tell Xata and Gumshoe that I was less confident in him and would rather elect somebody else but it was clear that neither was interested in switching.

On August 08 2013 15:36 Onegu wrote:
Anyone else see a black sheep in the lords?

On August 08 2013 15:48 Grackaroni wrote:

Obviously I thought about it but you made it clear to me that you weren't feeling like switching right before you went to bed and Gumshoe told me he was confident in him vote as well. I'm not going to deny our house a lord because I was null on him.

On August 08 2013 18:06 Onegu wrote:
One is a smurf the rest are vets except one.

On August 08 2013 18:15 Onegu wrote:
He seems like he was made a scapegoat, just seems odd that someone just out of newbies is a house lord.

On August 08 2013 18:56 Onegu wrote:


No I doubt he is scum, I think he is a scapegoat. Thats why I want his house list.

On August 08 2013 19:41 Koshi wrote:
Basically it went down in our house like this.

S0lstice wanted to be Lord, DandelIon wanted to be Lord, Chromatically wanted to be Lord. I didn't because I wanted the best scumhunter to be Lord. S0lstice had my preference because he seemed like the most serious and experienced member. S0lstice and DI were discussing between themselves to see who would become Lord and then DI told me that S0ltice is scum twice.
Because they were fighting I presented myself to be Lord but in the end we went for Chroma.

As for scumreads:
DandelIon his main goal is to stir shit up. I don't know the reasons the elected lords gave in your houses but DI just told us we should vote him so he could use all our House power to kill Kush. The second reason he told me was to vote him because s0lstice was scum. And when I ran for Lord, DI told me he was going to push for my lynch today. I am interested how he will come into this thread and prove why S0lstice and I are scum.

Oats, we just played in Titanic and you come in this thread and say that you know that everybody in your house is town and that you will protect their identity? You must be really REALLY confident in this game.
You prevent us to find scum in your house and you prevent your house by talking about how you got elected or prevent them from giving away information about you.

On August 08 2013 19:47 Oatsmaster wrote:

Um what? My reads were mostly right in Titanic. 1 wrong read. whatever.

I only prevent you from knowing who I can contact through pms.
All this other stuff is really weird. I didnt get elected.

On August 08 2013 21:06 Acrofales wrote:

Are you town this game? I haven't seen you shit up the thread yet.

---

Dear friends (and Martells),

As the Lord of Highgarden I ask you to please stop the senseless bickering. We have Blackfyre sympathists amongst us and nothing you have said so far has helped me decide who is friendly with the rebel scum. I have come to King's Landing to end their cause.

The most interesting information anyone has brought has come from House Baratheon. I would like to hear more about their internal politics, in order to determine whether Blackfyres have infiltrated them. I also want to hear more from Ser Oatsmaster, because his reasons for not having a healthy dose of suspicion towards his kinfolks are weak. The fact that there was no strife in your house, is no reason to assume they are all true to the realm.

Within my own house there was no strife either, but the voting process was short and did not give much alignment indicative information. I feel this open forum is a better place for uncovering Blackfyre sympathists than in the private confines of Highgarden.

Yours sincerely,

Acrofales Tyrell

On August 08 2013 21:12 Oatsmaster wrote:

koshi didnt explain why dandel's actions was scum, when all the things he said seem to be townie to me, like agressive and shit. Killing kush was probably a joke, dunno.
Also, he didnt explain why im scum. This whole statement is bullshit.

Its not what Im doing at all. And its really weird that this is the conclusion that he drew from my statements so far.

On August 08 2013 21:20 Acrofales wrote:


I will ask your Lord. For now: do you think gumshoe is scum? If so, why? Is he the black sheep in your family? Please elaborate. Elsewise this post is just you throwing suspicions around for no sensible reason.

On August 08 2013 21:40 Dandel Ion wrote:

load of shit.

What happened:
As obviously the best town player in the house, as well as obviously town when town, it was clear I was the best lord from the start.

chrom said he wanted to be lord, but seemed pretty rational about not being the best choice since he's 1) average 2) a lurker

but solstice on the other hand started acting up, and tried to strongarm his way to being lord by every means possible, even lying and misrepresenting my townplay to make himself look better (lol).
Never even considering another lord but himself, even though he had stated HIMSELF that I was probably town and he'd elect me if he couldn't be eleced. And I decided he indeed couldn't be elected. Then he started acting all pissy and threw a hissy-fit about it.

So Koshi, that guy said he didn't want to be lord at the start. ok weird but w/e.
The he said he'd vote sol over me.
So I slammed him with my spears of logic of why I'm best lord and he started acting all pissy and threw a hissy-fit about it.
He then also decided to want to be lord for no reason at all. That was the tipping point from which on it was utterly IMPOSSIBLE to get anything out of him. every response then was needlessly passive/agressive, choke-full with either bad logic, or no logic at all, things like that.
So basically he claimed scum.

So I couldn't elect koshi cuz he was being a scummy bitch
I couldn't elect sol cuz he was being a bitch
I couldn't elect myself cuz koshi and sol were running around like emotional teenage girls.

So I had to elect the lurker that's prolly not even going to use the PM ability cuz afk, just so we get one at all.

My house is full of scum and baddies.
I want to switch houses.

On August 08 2013 21:45 Clarity_nl wrote:
Dandel you can come join my house, np.

Koshi played pretty weirdly as town in Titanic so I wouldn't quite say he claimed scum. That said, he did say he was trolling to see how far he could take it without taking heat (and he was town, sigh.



I hate to come back to this subject, but Xatalos could you explain how hiding house member lists slows scumhunting?

On August 08 2013 21:47 Acrofales wrote:
Oh my, my speech is all garbled. I have fixed my stuttering problem with a swig of wine:

On August 08 2013 22:05 Dandel Ion wrote:
im not even reading the failed quote posts.
fix that shit if you want anybody to see it.

On August 08 2013 22:03 Xatalos wrote:


Could you maybe post some quotes from your PM conversations or something? I have a hard time just taking your word that everything was nice and good. Unless it's an all-town House, which is unlikely, there has to be something fishy.

On August 08 2013 22:09 Dandel Ion wrote:
Especially since your reason for invalidating sol from being lord was me calling him scum without giving you a reason.
So you claim you're listening to me blindly, but do what you do so you don't have to listen to me?

On August 08 2013 22:11 Dandel Ion wrote:

Sure, get me modkilled.
Way to go.

On August 08 2013 22:17 iamperfection wrote:

come on, both you jaberring at each other like jib jubs is definitely more an indication that your both more likely to be town.

Scum like to hide not fight.

On August 08 2013 22:19 Dandel Ion wrote:

because chrom was not an inconsistent passive-aggressive emo about it
and actually tried to read other people at least A LITTLE
not something you did so far.

On August 08 2013 22:24 Oberyn wrote:
With only 25% of the players controlling a vote or kp, we need to find a way to make the non-Lords accountable for their actions. I suggest that each player pm their Lord their preferred lynch target and their preferred kp target. These should then be posted in the thread either at the end of day one or the beginning of day two so we have a better idea where everyone stands. Something we have to watch out for is a mafia bus where a non-Lord pushes a scum buddy without consequence because they have no vote. We have to keep in mind the difference in ones play as a Lord and non-Lord.

On August 08 2013 22:37 Dandel Ion wrote:
Thing is there's a small chance sol just has some serious delusions of grandour.

A bit more likely he's just scum with koshi though.
The way koshi went about saying he's voting sol over me without explaining it or listening to my reasons also suggests as much.

Koshi still better lynch tho.

On August 08 2013 22:44 Dandel Ion wrote:

well chrom has been bystanding basically just because he was afk so much.

he did however not fail the test that koshi failed so spectacularily.
cuz when I told chrom "sol is scum" in a oneliner without explanation he actually 1) asked for reasons 2) talked about the reasons 3) told me he was more suspicious of koshi instead and that i should look into him.

3) is a towntell in multiple ways which I won't go into right now

so yeah chrom wasn't doing much but it's not like he was super shifty about it and he's (again) the only housie that showed interest in figuring out the players in the house.

On August 08 2013 22:43 Acrofales wrote:

I don't know why Oberyn suggests it should be behind closed doors in any case. As I stated to my house members, I will be pressuring people to give their opinions, and why, regardless of whether they are a lord or not. It is far more dangerous that filthy Blackfyres just lurk in the background while upstanding members of the realm murder each other based on false accusations, than that scum "bus" each other when they have no power. In the latter they are at least talking and influencing and involved in the decision process. In the former, the Blackfyres win without sticking out their hands. Lurkers are even more of a problem than usual and I will be keeping an eye on them.

On August 08 2013 22:48 Oberyn wrote:


People should certainly post in the thread who they want to lynch and that part shouldn't remain in pms or anything. I was just suggesting that it also be discussed in PMs so one Lord isn't overruling their entire house when it comes to who they should decide to vote. I'm still undecided on how the suggested kp target should be handled. People should certainly post who they think deserves to be shot and perhaps we can use a voting system to have everyone decide, rather than a few individuals, but I'm unsure what type of protective roles the mafia team may have. The kp seem to be instant so if the mafia protective roles aren't instant, this wouldn't be a concern.

On August 08 2013 22:49 Acrofales wrote:

I, as a lord, don't even know how much KP is in my hands. I have prayed to the gods for more information. Not quite sure how you know it's a LOT.

On August 08 2013 22:51 Dandel Ion wrote:

1) says the best scumhunter should be lord
1.5) does not vote the best scumhunter, votes the last place he himself stated to share with chrom
2) says he and chrom are in similar positions/places
2.5) does not even think about electing chrom but wants himself only because "it's me lol", tries to threaten a no-lord voting because "i (=dandel) cant convince sol to vote with me anyways lololol", so he's basically tried to blackmail me into voting for him
3) says he doesn't want to be lord
3.5) suddenly wants to be lord, utterly unable to explain why
4) says he won't vote for me because I'm tunneling and won't vote solstice because "there is suspicion on him" (aforementioned oneliner without explanation lol)
4.5) doesn't really fit the numbering thing but this is basically a paradoxon because he's saying he won't listen to me, but won't vote the guy he wanted lord half the phase because I'm suspicious of him.
4.6) If he wasn't listening to me, he wouldn't have listened period, but he's ran straight out of excuses and can't find any.
4.6.1) he probably thought I wouldn't notice because I was tunneling sol apparantly
4.7) at that point i wasn't even tunneling sol, but he didn't care to check that.

On August 08 2013 23:01 Acrofales wrote:
I was just told I have 1 KP. How did Xatalos know this already?

On August 09 2013 00:48 Onegu wrote:


Its possible town is helping scum by doing something illogical. I can see town motivation for giving out house lists, even though I think it is anti town, there is no scum motivation for posting the list.

On August 09 2013 02:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The thing with Clarity is this:

Townies do fuck up. Scum also do fuck up. Based only on the PM´s with him/SnB it´s impossible to tell if Clarity is mafia or not. However, when someone fucks up and there is no real explanation, it´s far more likely that it was scum who fucked up. My opinion is that if you do reaction tests you plan them out well. You don´t just throw stupid stuff there to "see what happens". It´s gonna fail, always.

Now this is what i told Oats earlier. This is exactly what i am talking about. There is some REDACTED dude whose identity/thoughts are not revealed, but he has some points why Clarity is town. If these points are valid, for example i am right now wasting my time with thinking about if we should lynch Clarity or not. WHY THE FUCK is it so hard to just stop this thing if you think it´s bullshit? Just because you don´t want to reveal you are in the same house with snb & clarity.

Guess what, you are wasting town´s time here. It´s anti-town. From all of you.

On August 09 2013 02:07 Clarity_nl wrote:


Well I agreed with your answer, actually.

On August 09 2013 02:50 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ok so im REDACTED in SnB's conversation with clarity.

So events happened like this.

I was talking to clarity, and he told me SnB's rolename out of NOWHERE. Ok. So I asked him for his rolename. And he declined giving reasons like, 'scum can bluesnipe rolenames'. Which sounds like crap to me. But whatever.
Eventually, I decided to fakeclaim 1 shot rolename alignment check because he wouldnt tell me his rolename. After I said that, he gave it up willingly. I then came back and pm'ed him that the result was that its a fake role name. Fakeclaim. Which means he is scum. He then said something along the lines of 'ok dude' And nothing else. So that makes me think he is town cause he doesnt have an overt reaction. I dunno. Thoughts guys?

On August 09 2013 03:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Yes. I am saying that.

On August 09 2013 03:23 Clarity_nl wrote:


As I've said, I thought snb told me he was gonna tell everyone.

On August 09 2013 03:27 Risen wrote:
Alrighty so...

Oats v Yamato is either two scum destroying the thread or one of them taking advantage of the other to destroy the thread.

Oats had a really simple mistake that bothered me pointed out by Koshi here in number 1. + Show Spoiler + He explains this away later in the thread as being heuristics. It's more likely a scumslip when you add that he feels the need to respond to inane stuff like he does here. + Show Spoiler + As a town player you shouldn't respond to things like this with more filler that just serve to increase the thread length. As scum it gives you the appearance of activity without appearing pushy. Feels like he's just moving around baiting people and later he'll claim it was all just to get discussion flowing to make scum be active. Unfortunately, the point of having scum talk in thread is to trip them up and catch them in a lie. I think he's scum who wanted to appear townie, started this plan, and then slipped himself on accident. If he hadn't he would have been a solid town read later when he "revealed" his master plan to just get discussion going. I love discussion, and this is why.

As for the Yamato end, he's been consistently null. He trashed up the thread, but at least he didn't lie or change course. I actually really like this part of his filter + Show Spoiler + because to me he's still tunneling Oats, but at least he's found something worth tunneling. Why didn't Oats know about the house powers thing? Because he didn't read the OP. That's fair, I didn't fully read it either. Why did Oats call out Yamato without fully reading the OP? Because he was scum trying desperately to pin Yamato with something and didn't think about the consequences.

Oats is scum, Yamato is null The funny thing is that prior to looking into the filters I thought Yamato would come across as more scummy than Oats, and gave kush a pass while reading through because of that.

WTF is with Dandel Ion destroying the thread single-handedly? No one cares that you think your house should be nuked, it's useless filler. No one cares about your inner dialogue, it isn't actually doing anything productive. If it was giving us your thought process, I'd like it, but it isn't. Finally, we have this masterpiece. + Show Spoiler + Like wat? You know something about s0l the rest of us don't? You trying to win the heart of town s0l as his defender? Or do you know he's scum and are trying to shift from him... either way it's a bad look. Dandel Ion is scum.

I'm looking at Onegu now b/c of thread feelings and I don't see anything inspiring me to chime in. I don't see the contradiction rayne was pointing out. I see why he would think it was a contradiction, but I don't believe it is.

On to Xatalos. First thing that caught my eye. + Show Spoiler + Yamato's rampage was really Yamato AND Oats' rampage. Why are you trying to pin it on one player here? Also, I don't care about your town games, and Yamato isn't new. Comparing yourself to Yamato might hold weight if Yamato was new, but he has plenty of town games for you to look at linked in his profile. But wait, let's be wishy washy and give Yamato advice on not jumping the gun. You know who patronizes in mafia games? Those who are in an argument with another person, mentors, and scum. You weren't in an argument with him, you're not his mentor....... Onwards. + Show Spoiler + You giving yourself an out for when Dandel Ion flips? This is soft as all hell. What's his take on it? How about your take on it, and THEN ask him for his take on it. + Show Spoiler + Why are you defending Koshi? He's perfectly capable of defending himself. + Show Spoiler + What's the use of this post other than to cast suspicion on gumshoe when you haven't even really done so in thread yourself? Why are you hedging all over the place so hard? + Show Spoiler + Finally, he doesn't hedge. He just gives a solid town read openly to the thread. And Dandel has typed out a long summary of the PM conversation he's had and that's town confirming? + Show Spoiler + Grackaroni's list didn't do anything. Koshi's member list itself didn't do anything, either. The discussion caused by talking about the PMs did something. The member list was inconsequential to that. And you know what else helps with scum hunting? Actually giving scum reads and real reasoning for those scum reads. I don't think Xatalos "knowing" lords have 1KP is alignment telling at all and don't think it was a scumslip. + Show Spoiler + People make stupid decisions as town and as scum. And it's really, really setting my scum detector off seeing you in here with these three rapid fire questions when you know how he has to respond. Answer to question 1: He wouldn't intentionally do so, or he might intentionally do so. It's WIFOM. Question 2: If he's doing it intentionally then yes, to cause confusion or further some other agenda, obviously. Question 3: Anything is plausible, this is mafia. You know this, you know the answers to the questions you're asking. Xatalos is scum.

I don't mind Grackaroni coming in and posting without reading the thread, simple mistake. My problem is that he posts the identity of people without asking his house and without reading the thread. That's something major and anyone should know that. It's a WIFOM, though. Did he make a stupid mistake as town, or is he scum trying to appear as having made a stupid mistake. Wash. I DO have a problem with him coming in and saying + Show Spoiler + Why out yourself as the "black sheep"? Iamp didn't feel the need to out you. Why are you cutting off speculation like that? Why are you giving scum that information? Is it because you've already told scum Iamp views you as the black sheep and you no longer care about hiding information? That's the scumtell I'm getting from Grackaroni. I see someone who doesn't care about the protection of information because all the information he has is already being forwarded to his scumbuddies. And why, WHY are you giving out town reads? Do you know Gumshoe is town and are trying to curry favor with him? Xatalos is annoying so town and tunneling two out of three people in his house is town and effort makes him town because scum don't actually try or something. What? I've seen nothing actually useful come out of Grack's mouth. I wouldn't lynch or shoot Grackaroni over someone like Xatalos,Dandel Ion, or Oats, but I think he needs to do something. Right now I have a scum read on him, and it's going to stay that way as long as he doesn't post anything of use.

s0lstice hasn't posted anything. Can't really judge anything. Doesn't look particularly good for him, though.

I'm going to reserve judgement on Clarity for the time being to see how this plays out. It's clear he thinks REDACTED will have his back.

Plenty of lurkers, but the game has just started. Please post your opinions on other people in the thread and tell me what you think about my four scum reads (but really discuss my top 3 of Dandel Ion, Xatalos, and Oats)

On August 09 2013 03:43 Chromatically wrote:
Xatalos, what do you think of Grack now? He claimed you were tunneling him on N0.

On August 09 2013 03:53 Oberyn wrote:
Dandel is playing thread bully and I'm strongly considering switching my vote to put him in time out. Nearly every player (koshi, sol, s&B, risen) that has brought up suspicion of dandel, he has responded by attacking their abilities and suggesting that they could be scum. This is extremely indicative of mafia play.

Could the Lannisters explain to me why they felt iamp was the best choice as Lord?

On August 09 2013 04:04 Clarity_nl wrote:


So you agree that he appears like his town meta. But you seem really confident he's scum?
I don't even....

On August 09 2013 04:13 Chromatically wrote:

You think this makes him scum?

On August 09 2013 04:16 Risen wrote:
Phone poast: How about you just defend yourselves against my points, and then point out who you think is scum and why instead of posting more useless filler like wat, say wat, and dis be cray! Don't listen to him!

On August 09 2013 04:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Then what do you mean by this:

?????

On August 09 2013 03:39 Clarity_nl wrote:

Your case on Xatalos seems compelling but it relies on Xatalos being a good mafia player.

On August 09 2013 05:02 kushm4sta wrote:
All this redacted stuff is confusing after the fact...who did we learn was scum? clarity?

On August 09 2013 05:08 Clarity_nl wrote:


Everytime it says redacted, insert oats.



The thing you pointed out as justified was compelling. I liked your admission of it though.
I don't think I've played with you at all (maybe once a long time ago) so I don't consider you anything.
Me saying "it relies on him being a good player" was more of a question than a statement.



I think onegu smells fishy, mainly because of him soft defending people twice (FT and myself). I think the reasons in your giant opening post are less than stellar, though.
I don't know anything about FT except for what's been posted about n0 pms

On August 09 2013 16:19 Oatsmaster wrote:
So which lurker do you want to die Xata?

On August 09 2013 16:38 Oatsmaster wrote:
I feel that kush will show his alignment either way.

So you are basically suggesting a policy nk on lurkers right?
Cause you dont have specific targets. I dont know if I agree.

On August 09 2013 16:55 Clarity_nl wrote:


Merely poking fun at you for calling me a traffic cop. Ofcourse I become aware of it when you point it out.
I don't know how that's inherent guilt, or why, as any alignment, I would feel guilty for trying to avoid people shitting up the thread.

Are you calling me scum, or are you just pointing out something as "noteworthy"? If you're gonna push something, push it.



I agree with this.

The rayn/acro shitfest that happened was dumb. One side saying that the other is COMPLETELY MISREPRESENTING ME when they use a slightly different word or interpretation is useless.
I dunno why you guys are voting eachother, but please find out if your vote is to lynch or if your vote is OMGUS.

rayn saying "I'll reconsider my read if you tell me the plan" can easily come from town
Likewise, acro being protective of his plan seems more likely town than scum. Issues with oberyn not withstanding (he called it a joint effort so you think he's scum?)

In fact, oberyn..... please walk me through this
You vote him because he is buddying up to you.. fair enough I guess? Not sure how that makes him more likely scum that solstice but let's roll with it.

Then you emphasize the buddying up part:


All is cool up until this point. He's buddying up to you, he's overstating his contributions. These are decent points.
Here comes the thing I have an issue with though:

Suddenly every interaction you've ever had with acro points to him being scum? Why didn't we hear from this earlier?
You had not mentioned any of these points until now. Could anyone from Oberyn's house say if he ever mentioned these things before, and whether or not he talked about acro possibly being scum?

You had a vote on him for one concise reason, implying you could lynch him for just that reason, and then you felt the need to suddenly attach 5 more reasons.
Why is that, Oberyn?

On August 09 2013 17:47 Clarity_nl wrote:
Yes.

If he believed him to be scum enough to vote him over solstice (while stating he's still suspicious of solstice) why does he feel the need to add more reasons to his vote?

On August 09 2013 17:59 Dandel Ion wrote:

Really? What indicates to you that he will?


btw, I'm fully in favor of policy nk'ing lurkers.
imo we should agree on 3 of them and have 2 houses shoot them respectively. Or maybe 2 with 3 shooting each? Hard to tell how much you need to kill them, 2 targets seems "safer" to result in something. Just try one out and see what happens. The specific distribution can be made in secret, dunno if that'd have an impact but i dont think it really matters to the thread who shoots who until after it's done (so we can see who didn't kill who), which might as well be claimed after.

There's literally no downside to this.

On August 09 2013 17:56 Clarity_nl wrote:
Let me put it this way.

In chronological order:

1. He takes advantage of the mess rayn and acro have created by voting for acro
2. He then goes back and explains why his reasoning in his votepost makes sense (this is fine)
3. He now shows that he went back and looked at his interactions with acro

Why did he not look back at the interactions before voting him? Surely you look back at it BEFORE you vote someone?
I believe he is scum who tried to take advantage of the situation, and acted too quickly, started doubting that the reasons he posted in thread looked genuine, so he went back and slapped on everything that he could twist to look scummy.
He had not mentioned acro at all before this point.

If anyone has received pms from oberyn in which he expresses concern of acro being scum prior to the rayn/acro outburst then I might be willing to change my mind on this.

On August 09 2013 18:00 Grackaroni wrote:
Finally read the thread, I am most suspicious of Jrkirby. First off Nobody in House Martell has gotten a good read off of him because nobody in House Martell really talked to each. The best contribution in thread he made was calling out S0lstice for not electing his town read and naming 2 people town who the majority of town has already agreed were town.

After that he started making posts such


This is a post that I would be ok with if it was in the start of the game, but he chose to talk about this during a time when scumhunting was actually taking place and he could actually participate in conversation.

Choosing to talk about setup rather than scumhunting and he has already disappeared without really pressuring or conversing with anybody

Everyone else has seemed engaged in the current conversations and actively scumhunting and these posts just didn't fit in with what I think a townie would be posting about during the time of the thread. He seems like he is more interested in blending into town than scumhunting.

There was an exchange between Oats and Yamato at the start of the game that rubbed me the wrong way. It was so disruptive and anti-town, that I have trouble believing that it came from 2 town players. It didn't seem normal to me and I even got a little bit of a staged feeling (as in they could be both scum randomly attacking each other at the start of the game). I think remember someone claiming they were probably town for being aggressive but some scum are more comfortable getting in arguments with people to help buff up their post count and mask their lack of contributions.

@Xata/Clarity/anyone awake. Is there anybody you would like me to comment on before i go to bed?

On August 09 2013 18:15 Dandel Ion wrote:

Why would you drag it out over multiple cycles?
that only muddies the waters.

On August 09 2013 20:29 Clarity_nl wrote:


You don't think is weird that even though acro told oberyn that he thought the hp check was on a person rather than a house, oberyn failed to mention this in his post?
Oberyn told rayn that if acro was speaking the truth about that, it's not anti-town.

He also failed to mention any of the reasons he posted in thread to rayn, even though he was supposedly discussing his read with rayn, enough so that he didn't want rayn to tell anyone else his thoughts.

On August 09 2013 21:04 Clarity_nl wrote:


I think solstice is a good lynch today unless something strange happens. His scumread on johnny makes no sense to me and his lord vote is obviously silly. Not voting DL despite having a townread on him because if he's scum he'll betray himself anyway...?

Onegu feels scummy, the way he rapidly comes to people's defense, other than that he hasn't done much.

Other than that, no not really. Risen is weird but scum doesn't just post 6 terrible scumreads in the span of an hour and then goes "BYE GUYS, DA BEECH"
I liked him pointing out FT's opening post being scummy as hell.

On August 09 2013 21:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
I am also underwhelmed by iamp. He got voted lord but he doesn't seem to be doing much in thread.
Maybe he's more active in pms?

That said, I've played with iamp before (2012 though) and this seems to be his style.
I don't disagree that lurkers need to be pressured, although as has been pointed out we have house KP for that, and hopefully iamp will agree with this.

All the lords definitely need to have some form of conclusion about what abilities are used, on who and what time.
Whether they share their conclusion in thread or not is up to them, but there should be an explanation of what was done the following day for sure (unless I'm not foreseeing some sort of plan that needs to keep most people in the dark)

On August 09 2013 21:27 Clarity_nl wrote:
Yeah FT has decent points about Acro.
That said his first post WAS scummy as hell. It became less scummy when he explained what he meant.
I don't think FT is scum at the moment, but Risen was correct to call him out on it.

Did Onegu soft defend people in NWM the way he's done at least twice this game?

On July 08 2013 13:42 Onegu wrote:


This is his reason for launching at xata I think, I think he means xata launched at him so he launched back.




And here is the reason he launched.

On August 09 2013 21:55 Acrofales wrote:

My speech is simply the way learned nobles of the Reach speak. I know this sometimes confuses the common peasants, but why did you feel the need to upstage the ongoing conversations with such trifling evidence? What was your intention with your "grand reveal", which seemed to indicate a monumentous discovery of epic proportions. With your dramatic presentation, I was expecting you had discovered that Aegon the Conqueror had returned to slay us all.

On August 09 2013 22:08 Acrofales wrote:

Now you know how I feel whenever I hear you talk!

On August 09 2013 22:07 Acrofales wrote:
I am not convinced by those calling the Red Viper a Blackfyre because his case against me was incremental. While his case against me is nonsense, and any trust I had placed in him is gone, I don't believe the fact that he presented his evidence incrementally is indicative of his true intentions at all.

On August 09 2013 22:14 Oberyn wrote:


You're misunderstanding what I'm referring to. The 1-shot single target hp check was what I did not mention and was what Acro did not understand. I'm referring to when Acro wanted to use the 1-shot house hp check for no real reason other than to figure out the hp system.



We discussed the scummy setup analysis. I told him to not tell anyone because I wanted Acro to be more open in PMs if he thought I trusted him.



rayn and chrom mainly. I told Onegu that it was a pressure vote. I don't give any other reasoning, nor was I asked really.

On August 09 2013 22:16 Vivax wrote:


I'm not sure how you call it a soft defense when I was curious about Koshi's rather faulty reasoning for calling Oats scum. Is it a soft defense of the guy attacked by a case when you suspect the maker of the case?
I'll be blunt about Oats, I have no reason to think he's scum at the moment.

I still have to catch up a good bit, and I'm interested into knowing the points of view of the lords, or if you were so nice to point it out quickly, where it has been posted. Who are the lords' targets? Which lords are trying to push their preferences the most? How will you reach an agreement?


@ Oberyn



I feel your interest into Dandel ebbed out very quickly, I'm curious to hear about the development of your read so far. With Acrofales entering the scene Dandel seemed to be forgotten for you (you mention him when questioning s0lstice's read, but you don't push him, or confront him with questions), although you called his behaviour out as extremely scummy.

Another matter I would want to know about is your judgment on Koshi. You like to mention Dandel frequently and acknowledged that Koshi might have been overreacting but I didn't see a judgment on Koshi yet from you. I for one am still suspicious of his attack on Oats and his inactivity at the moment.

That said, it would be interesting to know who the lords are considering for kp-lynch. An agreement is needed soon.

On August 09 2013 22:22 Oberyn wrote:


As opposed to a vote meant to not pressure him? Yes I wanted a reaction.



It hasn't changed and I just asked him a few things less than an hour ago, but he's playing hard to get. I don't think sol and dandel are both scum, which is the part time trying to figure out.




Suggestions?



At this point I'd rather focus more on other players than myself, unless there was something about Acro that you don't follow.

On August 09 2013 23:37 s0Lstice wrote:


If there is one takeaway from my explanation that you should be getting, it's that I think I'm in the right here. Yes, I would do the same thing again despite this retarded flack I'm getting.

Wait and see who I vote N1. This information will be made known to you later. For now, know that I have a pretty good idea of who I'm voting.

On August 10 2013 01:31 s0Lstice wrote:


Dandel is definitely town. Chromatically will depend on how his reads adjust as the game goes on. As I said earlier, I really didn't like how he clung to our whole argument seemingly without adopting any new information, especially when it came at the expense of doing anything else in thread as far as I can tell. He's asked me some good questions though that give me an impression he is trying to figure things out. I want to see which of those gives way. Koshi still looks scummy to me. I just got done talking him out of his big dead red scum read in PMs (Oats) with like 2 lines of text. There's times like this where he really just lacks conviction that makes me think his reads are a pretext.

It's obvious you can't understand my reasons for doing what I did. I'm not going to explain them again. It makes me nervous about you when you ask me the same question over and over expecting a different answer. What matters is if you think that I think that it was the best course for our house and town. If you think that, then whether it was right or wrong in your eyes is irrelevant.

Also, I'm asking you this again, tell me why I called Dandel town in my pursuit of the lordship, in essence undercutting my own run, if this was some big scum plot by me to discredit him and take the role for myself.

To the lords, how has Chrom been in PMs?

On August 10 2013 01:50 Koshi wrote:

Everybody thinks Oats is town and tells me that with 2 lines of text. I gave up on Oats.

On August 10 2013 02:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:

To be fair that is just what Koshi did in Titanic. He thought me & hzflank were scum, thought noone is gonna believe him (as they didn´t) and said he would vote whoever we would..

On August 10 2013 02:09 s0Lstice wrote:


This is correct, but there can still be a period of uncertainty. Can you not see how I could not be entirely sure when there are only 24 hours to figure it out, and no thread posting to go off of?

On August 09 2013 06:11 jrkirby wrote:


Ok, you're leaning town on him, but your afraid of electing him because electing him will allow us to know for sure if he's scum?

Is anyone else thinking this logic is dumb? Catching a guaranteed scum for giving mafia an extra KP and HP check is totally worth it. And you didn't even think that was likely. So... why not vote for him?

+ Show Spoiler +

On August 10 2013 04:03 Risen wrote:
Also, just an idea, but can we consolidate two KP targets within the same house, have a house lord do an HP check on their house, then decide what to do with our KP? I disagreed earlier with the notion of using the house HP check, but for deciding whether to split KP or not it makes things a lot easier to coordinate on which lord shoots who.

On August 10 2013 04:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Fuck, Oberyn had the best idea of the century!

On August 10 2013 04:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Okay. I want to lynch:
##Vote: Onegu
For reasons i have mentioned.
I know Oberyn is going to disagree with this. I feel Onegu is more likely to be mafia than solstice, solstice is at least giving us something to work with. I am willing to consider solstice/johnnywup/FirmTofu if necessary, but i like Onegu as the best lynch.

On August 10 2013 04:34 Acrofales wrote:
Xatalos, why do you keep insinuating I am Blackfyre scum without giving any kind of reason other than that I *should be better*? You leveled this exact same argument against me in our previous encounter and were INCREDIBLY wrong. Why have you not learned to understand my thought process yet, after SO many encounters?

On August 11 2013 15:19 Oberyn wrote:
I've got to get to bed and I'm not sure I'll be able to be very active the first half of the cycle, but something that comes to mind:

gumshoe has 7 kp.

The Lords shoot 6 kp, meaning the mafia likely finished him off.

4 players knew it would take a single kp to finish off gumshoe. The mafia obviously aren't going to spend more kp than they have to on a 2 post inactive like gumshoe.

Extreme FOS to the players who had knowledge of his hp check.

On August 11 2013 19:01 Grackaroni wrote:

What's the point of using meta if you don't look at scum games too?

On August 11 2013 20:19 Oatsmaster wrote:
So you think Koshi and Solstice both scum?

On August 11 2013 20:20 Clarity_nl wrote:
Anyway...

let me just put it in one post to make it easier.

xata claims roleblocked
oberyn claims watcher and says he targeted xata, 2 visitors. He hasn't told us who, though.
onegu claims 1 shot medic on xata

Easy conclusion: xata lied about the roleblock or onegu is lying about the 1shot medic or the 2nd person who targeted xata is the roleblocker.

xata looks pretty town, no reason for him to lie and no reason for a town roleblocker to target him
Therefore either Onegu or the second person is scum

With how quickly onegu claimed 1shot medic I doubt he's scum trying to get a townie lynched before he dies.
Therefore whoever is left is scum. Oberyn if you did not fakeclaim you should just tell us who it is so we can lynch him

On August 11 2013 20:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
One possible problem.

If the person is town he is likely a protective role, if the person is scum he will likely claim a protective role.
If we lynch this person and he flips town we can't immediately lynch onegu for this.

On August 11 2013 20:38 Clarity_nl wrote:


That's what I mean.

Both people on you could theoretically be town.

Onegu's claim seems really natural, so I think he's town. Oberyn seems town.
If X flips town I don't think we can lynch onegu/oberyn on just this watcher claim

On August 11 2013 20:45 Clarity_nl wrote:
nvm yeah I'm an idiot. One of onegu or X roleblocked you.
I guess jailer is a possibility but unlikely.

On August 11 2013 20:51 Clarity_nl wrote:
Yeah one of them is scum. Town wouldn't roleblock you. I just derped on the roleblock part.
The only explanation where all are town is a town jailer. Very unlikely and if player X is anyone even remotely scummy we need to lynch them

On August 11 2013 21:19 Oberyn wrote:
I'll give the other player a few more hours to claim via pms to their Lord for them to pass it on to me. If they don't, I'll reveal who they are and we can lynch them.

On August 11 2013 22:11 Oatsmaster wrote:
oh so its sharrant. Acro is definitely scum then.

On August 11 2013 22:18 Oatsmaster wrote:
What happens if
A: Its a fakecheck.
B: Yamato is a miller
C: Yamato was framed.
Hm Xata?

On August 11 2013 23:16 Acrofales wrote:

If Oberyn thinks X could be town, there is no reason to reveal an actual Jailkeeper for scum to pick off. Why are you so eager to out someone who could be a jailkeeper to scum?

On August 11 2013 23:38 Acrofales wrote:

But... why does you knowing the identity of X serve anybody anything. All it seems to do is sate your curiosity. Yes, I also want to know what is going on in this game, but if X is a loyalist, I don't see how revealing his identity to anybody serves anything. If his resources are limited, like onegu's, then claiming in public is fine. If he has ongoing access to his resources, I feel he should protect his identity and communicate by raven (potentially multiple ravens if he must let his lord know).

On August 12 2013 00:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:
wtf is with you guys? Why did you discuss the watcher situation?

On August 12 2013 04:01 iamperfection wrote:

no yamatos filter is useless and is wifom you can get reads possibly from how players interacted with him but not how he interacted with others.

On August 12 2013 04:03 Koshi wrote:

With only Gumshoe dieing we can safely assume that scum tried to kill Xatalos right? Well, it is not 100% certain but chances are high. So most likely both visitors wanted to safe Xatalos instead of killing him?

But that is just theorycrafting.

On August 12 2013 04:20 s0Lstice wrote:
yea, ignore yamato

after him, i would really, really like to kill acro

On August 12 2013 04:46 Dandel Ion wrote:
You're not invited.

On August 12 2013 04:19 Koshi wrote:

Scum is not going to kill him and going to send a guy to him.

On August 12 2013 06:31 yamato77 wrote:

It's called the INTERNATIONAL

On August 12 2013 17:04 Oatsmaster wrote:
Fucking vet shield.

On August 12 2013 17:17 Oatsmaster wrote:

Ace is posting. And its been useless. Why as town does Ace post useless things Xata? Is it cause Ace is bad?

On August 12 2013 17:50 Oatsmaster wrote:

Well some effort he has shown. Its just not very good.

On August 12 2013 19:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What in Ace´s posts makes him scum?

Back to the drawing board with Oberyn & Onegu i guess.
O&O, why do you think the guy who assumably roleblocked Xatalos did not claim?

On August 12 2013 18:40 Dandel Ion wrote:

No I won't
Look for somebody else to softpush.

Did you know I will disappear at the end of every day?
It's called 6 AM.


Agreed.
That's actually why I told chrom to shoot the scum slot last night, so that this could be avoided.
At that time I didn't know there was a list
On which the hyperlurker wasn't even on. For no discernable reason.
I blame the maker of the list.


No, not particularily.
The same argument is that he would read the thread if he was town.
tl;dr: It's intentionally shit play, which means shoot him.
tho i agree we need to shoot/lynch kush as well.