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On August 01 2013 06:55 sc_a.M wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:22 DeusXmachina wrote:I am back. A lot has gone on, and there is a lot I want to talk about so this is going to be a long post. The focus of this post will still be on reps, however I wanted to address a couple things first. Alakaslam votes me because of the Kenpachi rule. Lol. That is just stupid. I never attacked a VT claim. Asking if Alakaslam can be trusted because he claimed VT super early is hardly an attack. There is some talk on people who are being neutral and others who are not contributing that much. Honestly, I think we should wait to target these people. If they are persistently neutral or lurking throughout multiple days then we have more reason to be suspicious. That being said, why would you even want to stay neutral? Being a vocal townie is not a bad thing. Just imagine if every legit townie was trying to be extremely pro town. Scum couldn't target one specific individual, and town would have a great basis for analyzing potential scum posts, i.e. a post that was trying to appear pro town. Okay, I still want to focus on reps. If reps is scum and he gets lynched, WOOT good job townies. If reps is a bad townie and he gets lynched, WOOT good job townies. Has anyone actually disagreed that reps is either scum or a bad townie? On July 31 2013 07:59 reps)squishy wrote:
So I have read a few TL Mafia games to try to get a grasp of the game. People love lynching people who don't post. What do you guys think of non-posters? Should we lynch them and hang them in the entrance of the town to let them all see that scums are not allowed here? Honestly this didn't contribute much at all. In fact most of his posts are pointless. But here is what Interests me. Reps says he has been reading up on a few TL Mafia games and expresses his interest in non posters. He hasn't posted that much, at time he has been a complete lurker, and again non of his posts are actually that meaningful. For someone who has been reading TL Mafia games your doing a really shitty job so far reps, no offense. Furthermore, if he has been reading TL Mafia games why the hell does he appear so newbie still? Evidence of pointless posts: (I am not going to quote them because there is a lot) 1. Welcome Nightcat you have missed just about nothing. 2. Yeah just use the edit button and that thing. 3. Quotes me and says, "Meaningless fluff is awesome! But I guess that is not something to do." 4. oh (are you kidding me reps....) 5. Quotes and then says, "Happy?" (seriously............) 6. sc_a.M has not posted since the game has started. RDaneelOlivaw posted one fluff since the game started. 7. A picture (my favorite) Okay a lot of pointless posts there. He has not contributed much. That seems scummy to me. Furthermore, his defense of my accusation was poor. On July 31 2013 14:48 reps)squishy wrote:
My response to skeptics.
He said he is a newbie multiple times!
Pff, oops I said I was a newbie to many times that does not decide what role I am.
He didnt edit his post, he found out he cant edit his post at the middle of him posting and decided to tell us about it. There is just something fishy about that.
scroll up there is another post that I almost edited. Almost looks exactly the same scrubby mistake.
My mistakes have made me look pretty scummy. But assure me saying I was new was me being truthful. Me claiming I was a noob should not decide if I am scum or not. He doesn't even thwart any suspicion here, instead he actually claims his actions were scummy, which means that accusation was warranted. Couple more things. Ill be brief. Why would he vote Umasi? That makes little sense. He votes Umasi because Umasi came under recent suspicion. That seem like he is trying to blend in to me. Furthermore he presses his attack against Umasi, saying that anyone who defends him, like Umasi did, should appear suspicious? WAT? Yeah maybe if you are scum than anyone who defends you should appear suspicious. But if your townie why do you care? Furthermore, that is certanly not a reason to vote Umasi. In conclusion, At best he is a bad townie and we should lynch him. However, he seems very scummy to me. I don't think you're totally right on reps, somehow it is so that beeing a newby appears to be scummy. We're in the same boat, and I don't think we should gang up on the newst members. I don't understand how can vote on someone without the possibilty of evidence, it's just random. Perhaps he felt intimidated, I too hate the thought of beeing lead by a mafia friendly person.
Yeah, I want to get scam out of the way first. This post reads like he knew what was up with reps beforehand, he didn't actually hard defend his stance on reps, and he hasn't accused anyone of anything in any of his posts, where they're all slipped in. I'm going to be obvious and pressure him into doing things, and if he doesn't do good things, just lynch him. If we don't deal with him SOMETIME, but he keeps coming back to no lynch, it'll just be a hassle later on.
VOTE sc_a.M.
(gg holyflare)
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(there's really not much more to say about scam, it's nothing but non-contributions)
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is anyone around to talk to? :<
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Because he has posted three things over the course of the game.
His no lynch post is just shitty aside from the entire no lynch part of it, because he preemptively is like "I am gonna die" for no reason at all. His not posting is what's killing him.
Do you have a reason to think he isn't scum? There's no reason to not pressure him because he isn't even talking, so the best way to get him to start doing things is to start pressuring him :<
There is zero in there that is objectively good.
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haha~the problem there is I committed a pretty awful act of bullshittery, so I'm forever hypocritical from now on
I had to go, as I mentioned, (which isn't a good reason at all), but that's how it is.
I was THAT sure that reps would be town that I was risking a no-lynch to keep him up. a lot of it is the timeframe when I wake up (I really had to slam out that night post(no pun intended)).
scams reasons for a no lynch were not something I could get on board with, at all, and nothing about it felt town. I CAN get on board with my reasons for a no-lynch, and that's the difference.
Has anyone explained why infii is town? I'm still not sold on him.
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Nightcat, you are right, it was a totally shit move, I don't think I'm arguing that. I DID have reasons though, and that's what I've tried to communicate. I didn't realize it at the time (or I wouldn't have done it).
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Like, nothing that he'd done was actually scummy except for his claims of newbiness, his voting patterns were SUPER erratic and nonsensical, and when you looked at the whole picture, the entire thing felt too good to be true, when I got to the computer and caught up on the thread.
Basically, go read this page of his filter
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422313&user=reps)squishy¤tpage=2
it doesn't fit a scum mindset, he was actually trying to change the way he was playing through the course of it.
infii was a better target because he spent more time defending himself, the points brought up against him were strong and I agreed with them (go read gotards filter) (this also happens to be why holyflare lumped us together)
On August 01 2013 05:26 infii wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 04:54 sc_a.M wrote:
Hey guys!
In my opinion we should not kill anyone today but wait and let the investigators do the investigations. Perhaps there isn't even a SK and then everything would be fine! That sounds so much pro scum that it almost can't be true. Please clarify your post if you are town. Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 04:54 Holyflare wrote:On July 31 2013 17:47 infii wrote:
Unfortunately I can't be as active as I would like to be, but I'll try to post as often as I can.
So I'll go ahead and tell you my thoughts up until now after reading all the posts.
Umasi is at the top of my suspicious-list right now, because it seems he tries to stir things up and doesn't act neutral in any way. (e.g. anti deus - pro reps).
However that is not enough for me to vote on him... it's still the first day, right?
DeusXmachina took an early stance which backfired at him so now he tries to get clear of it. Seems legit aka town.
Holyflare is pretty neutral until now, which is good.
reps)squishy has stirred up some suspicion but that seemed to be unintentional, also I liked his defense.
Nightcat99 is nr. 2 on the suspicious-list. Not many posts but the few ones have a chaotic flavor to them as in trying to confuse people.
StiMaDDict acts generally neutral, seems like town.
Alakaslam's last posts were totally bonkers. No idea what he is up to.
Again, this were just my thoughts about everyone active in this discussion up until now, there are no facts that I can claim to be true or false. This is his only noteworthy contribution so far, it is weak at best and is somewhere on my radar, however, it is more contribution than others have put forward. It is hard to get a read on him and I'd like some more indepth analysis from him before I make my decision. I am also very interested to hear from Deus right now on his opinion of things. I'm sorry but you won't get an indepth analysis from me on day 1 (maybe even day2). There is just not enough information on everyone, that would be like looking for a needle in a haystack. (is this even a common phrase in english?)
I hated that post specifically, his justification for not doing analysis at all, and his entrance with a list that was super wishy washy, and he called me scummy for things that were pro-town, and that elicited a
"uuuuuuuuh dude?" kind of response. It didn't feel like he was a confused townie, it felt like he was looking for something to say about me that made me scummy. The reaction to that post might have been a little omgus? I don't really think so though. He was obnoxious and confrontational to gotards legitimate points, and it felt like he was sidestepping suspicion.
I still think that he's scummy, but StiM is POSITIVE he's town, and I think StiM is town. Holyflare thought he was town (and holyflare is obviously one of the two towniest players (the other is reps))
I still haven't seen reasons that he's town, and I still want them.
didn't format it super clearly, sorry =/
Basically reps didn't fit a scum mindset with the second page of his filter, in my experience he would have just gone quiet, he struggled a lot and was very present.
infii was a better target because he entered with a stupid list filled with baseless reasons for reads, was very neutral himself, and responded in ways that seemed like he was trying to defend himself, and justified his no posting with ridiculous reasons.
infii is still a good target imo, and I'm still waiting for someone to explain why he's town that isn't "I just think he's town"
deus, who are you going to focus on currently?
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Thank you infii, you have done a far better job of defending yourself than anyone else in the thread, by virtue of actually stating your position and thoughts on something in a clear manner. I basically agree with you on scam, I obviously disagree with you regarding me, and I don't think you'd defended yourself as well as other people had thought. Go read what I posted about my rational behind my vote swap yesterday (you might have missed it).
basically, before this you were kinda scummy, now you're pretty townie. If you want me to respond to any points in your case, feel free to ask if I didn't cover it in my previous post linked here for your convenience
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422313¤tpage=42#838
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infii, did you even read the message I linked? The entire reason I unvoted is BECAUSE of what I thought of reps and you.
It was not clear that reps was going to be lynched, here's why:
If it were clear, then people wouldn't get angry at me for endangering the lynch. and the entire point behind my reasoning is that I'd have preferred a no lynch than a reps lynch.
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as a side note (this is totally irrelevant btw) why do people keep calling me usami?
Rdaneel it looks like you just recased everything that holyflare and infii said. I'm not actually seeing anything that I should bother addressing or haven't addressed yet.
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if the case is you won't listen to what I say, then I can't help you there. Someone else will have to talk about it.
Rdaneel, what do you think of scam? I think it's smart to pressure him (although if he goes totally afk then we can leave him for the modkill), and you're not going to convince me I'm scum basically ever, so in lieu of other people to talk to~(unless other people are actually around)
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~I have explained myself for the vote swap, and that's what people hate.
Me and gotard being similarly suspicious of infii isn't weird, people who think that infii was town are weird, because he was scummy (not anymore)
also, if reps were an easy mislynch to push, why would I immediately target deus? Wouldn't it be more logical to keep pushing reps? Because that was early enough it wasn't "concrete" that reps was gonna get lynched.
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Alakaslam, I don't even know what you're referring to. Is it my inconsistent policy with my actions? Is it the way I played early game, who I pressured, how I pressured?
No ones actually making it clear.
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assume we're a scum team together, what would we get out of tag teaming like you said we did? Is there any reason we would build such a strong connection?
(yeah, it's wifom, the thoughts not even occuring to you, and since I brought up you should just ignore it I guess.)
(btw, the town motivation for no lynching instead of mis lynching is the fact that we don't kill a townie.)
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On August 03 2013 09:54 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 09:46 Alakaslam wrote:On August 03 2013 09:40 Nightcat99 wrote:
Man slam , you would be such a great help , if i dont have to reread everything you write 3 times. I was getting suspicious on you because you secure the lynch but you didnt say anything to umasi the whole night.
Although i never had a scum read on you, that behavior you have was a bit odd, but i am off your case for now.
And about the vote switch, there was still quiet a bit of floating vote out there, a scum could have still switch back to secure that lynch, (assuming Umasi is a scum of course.)
So i dont think his vote switch is a risk of letting rep live.
Yeah actually I did. I got pissed he didn't vote scam. I switched before him. If he really wanted lynch off reps but didn't want no lynch, he should have counter wagoned with me, publicly so. He didnt. Now he wants to go after scam, and says he purposely wanted to no lynch. Thank you for reminding me of the back of my mind. That is why Umasi is scum. Defense that though.
because my opinions of reps were constantly changing, and I didn't just at the start of the day say "reps is X"?
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or are you asking why I didn't vote in line with your vote? and the answer to that is infii was scummier than a lurker. scam still hasn't picked it up , whereas infii has
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Alakaslam, I think you need to read a little bit more carefully, and post more rationally, we're having a hard time following what you're trying to say. I still want to pressure scam because he hasn't voted, I think he's a smart person to pressure.
Gotard, since he's wrong about infii (at least, I think so), is someone I'll go reread. not right now, watching lcs. I'll talk about him after this game though.
I obviously didn't intend to switch back alakaslam, I was fucking afk, and would have welcomed a no-lynch as I've stated really frequently.
Just because you thought infii was townier does not mean he was actually townier, don't shove your opinions as the law, disagreeing with you is not scummy -.- (directed at slam)
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Slam, infii at least has POSTED.
Do you NOT want to pressure the lurker? Is that just not something you want to have happen?
Why is pressuring scam to get him to post a bad idea?
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The promise of future activity is good. infii was scummier, but I had more of an expectation he would post things. Therefore, voting scam makes sense, to make him post.
and yeah~zyrre not posting is fucking confusing, he's equally important to pressure, but he's sure as shit done more than scam.
~i'm hardly even watching atm and I want to watch :<
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and no slam, YOU DO NEED TO READ MORE CAREFULLY, AND POST MORE RATIONALLY. Not even just focusing on me, forever.
You are actually hard to comprehend sometimes and that is bad, so this is just a person request, make it easy for everyone :<
going against my own policy isn't even scummy, it's just weird. And people think that getting off of reps would give towncred, it honestly shouldn't. It's me acting by my personal views of the situation.
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EPT
