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Majority lynch? What the devil?
Plurality or riot!
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On July 06 2013 06:38 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2013 06:37 Blazinghand wrote:On July 06 2013 06:36 cDgCorazon wrote:
So smurfs and hydras are allowed? oh, herp derp I used the LXI OP basically. Um, I'm gonna say no to smurfs and PROBABLY no to hydras unless there's a good reason. Hydra newbies would be really hilarious to watch though.
![[image loading]](http://hydra-images.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/a/ae/Ogre_Magi.png)
"He's scum!"
"No, he is!"
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On July 06 2013 07:31 jrkirby wrote:
It says there are 3 scum, does that mean there are 3 not town players (since 3rd party show up as scum to cop), or there are 3 people specifically aligned with mafia? Or is that hidden info?
Blue is mod text, brohemoth.
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On July 09 2013 02:25 StiMaDDict wrote:Yay ^^
<3
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If you vote for an hzflank lynch based on pregame meta, I will fall instantly in love with you.
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On July 09 2013 05:00 jrkirby wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 04:43 WaveofShadow wrote:
On that note, has anyone ever seen an SK (or similarly a 3P with some sort of KP) kill scum?
I don't think I have. Well I can't say I saw it. It was mighty dark that night, and a wave of shadow blocked my vision. But I heard it happen, I really did. Earlier that day there was a hurricane, and we'd been seeing chromatic rainbows all day. But come night time, there was an SK there in a wheelchair, like Xavier. A nightcat jumped through the alley. Suddenly the SK gets flanked by two scum, but he had a blazinghand, and shot them both. Unhinged, he stutters, "I am perfection." and rolls off into the night.
Kirby best breadcrumber NA 2013
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On July 10 2013 07:30 jrkirby wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2013 07:25 hzflank wrote:
No wonder there are serial killers in this game. It's probably going to wind up with no SK but BH is going to kill whoever he feels like each night and we'll all think there is one.
More and more I'm getting the sense that TL Mafia is more about the admins who run the games and their amusement and that the players are just pawns fighting to the death to appease Caesar.
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That weird feeling when you hope your buddy gets nuked by his other friends soon so he can come play with you...
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On July 12 2013 13:49 cloud-9 wrote:
/in :-) Newby here
This guy seems legit.
##Nominate: Cloud 9 for mayor
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*hops on twitch*
*clicks Dota 2*
*Arteezy's playing... banner says 'cloud 9s mega legit'*
On July 12 2013 14:09 Hurricane Sponge wrote:This guy seems legit. ##Nominate: Cloud 9 for mayor
MY MIND. IS THIS TRUMAN SHOW?
Edit: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/Arteezy
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On July 13 2013 04:50 Nightcat99 wrote:
I don't actually know what wagon means but it sounds fun. I am on board.
Hey guys, I found a sheep on the wagon.
Lynch the sheep.
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Sponge posting his Early Day 1 Conversation Starter?
Sponge posting his Early Day 1 Conversation Starter.
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Pre-written segment starts now:
3 points to raise, in order of importance from highest priority to lowest.
1.) This game is Majority lynch: There will be 2(+) wagons per day. By the end of the day, you need to pick scummiest one and join it (no lynch = bad). Don't tunnel your read at the cost of town kp (e.g. the lynch). If you don't think either wagon is more scummier than the other, analyze the people on each wagon. You'll find you trust one of the groups of voters more than the other, even if your feelings on the lynch candidates are a wash.
CAVEAT: Feel free to hold out as long as you feel is necessary during the day to make your point. Ideally, you'll join a wagon a couple hours before the deadline. If there's 12 hours left, scumhunt the hell out of the guy no one is looking at. Hell, you might be able to get a serious wagon going on him. But if that clock is counting down, and your vote is flying solo, I don't want to hear "Oh, I was going to switch at the last second, but my internet went out" if it cost us a lynch for that day.
2.) Pet peeve: There is a separate voting thread for this game. No ninja votes. Disclose all votes and unvotes redundantly in this thread. Ninja votes may not be a scum tell, but I would consider it a personal favor.
3.) One of the big pieces of advice I keep hearing from the veterans is to not use meta in these newbie games. I took this advice one step further: I submit that unless you make a concentrated effort, you will subconsciously naturally use what little meta you have on your fellow players when making crucial decisions. In short. "Don't Use Meta" is not a call for inaction, but rather a call to actively eliminate meta arguments and bias from your decision-making process.
Upon realizing the importance of identifying my own biases, I am hereby disclosing everything I think I know now. If you catch me treating you based on any of the following, ask me to support it with analysis from this game if you feel I'm being unfair or displaying bias: (quicklist)
Xzavier: strong townie reads, poor scumhunter (susceptible to OMGUS). contributes to discussion when questioned directly. syntax and post construction can sometimes be an issue. inconsistent activity level (can be a high volume poster or post in blocks in the same game). Been Mislynched in last two games- implies poor ability to defend pressure as town. unknown scum game.
hz: strong approach to the game. methodical analysis that leads to accurate reads as town. as town: willing to post elaborate conspiracy theories for public scrutiny to vet all possible venues of analysis ('no stone unturned'-type player). "This guy is Town that thinks like Scum but posts with pro-town logic. Very dangerous." - Ace Himself (NMMXLIII Scum QT) (powerful ally as town, dangerous foe as scum). can scumhunt solo or lead town as town. if you reach endgame or near-endgame with him and think he's been too good a player to be scum, re-evaluate. he is that good.
Umasi: volume poster as town. (11 pages of filter in the 84-page NMMXLII) posts can be emotional but often contain strong arguments / positions or other useful content. Analysis skills may be suspect (poor voting history in NMMXLII), and may tilt from pressure as town. Has shown willingness to tunnel as town.
Chromatically: strong analyzer of both town and scum. has the ability to drive town discussion in positive directions as town. sheepable in this format (majority lynch) if townieness is confirmed / likely.
Gotard: low activity level. (In 84 pages of Newbie Mini Mafia XLII, amassed only a 3-page filter despite being the primary wagon on day 1) unknown analysis ability. tends to follow wagons as town. post content generally short-and-sweet (1-liners that get to the point when not making cases)- very little fluff.
Sponge: volume poster- high activity level. (15 pages of filter in 99-page NMMXLIII) content-based poster. weak town reads (slow to trust; defaults to town consensus). mediocre scum reads (more data needed). weakness to pre-flip relationships, NK analysis, and trying to 'solve' Power Roles as town.
StiMaDDict: notorious lurker as town. general contribution is one post per day: a massive case on someone right before the lynch deadline. willing to target popular and unpopular targets with his vote as town. weird self-voting meltdown in NMMXLII implies a certain level of Crazy in this player. Posting is generally content / analysis-driven (low fluff). More data needed.
The above are all characterized as Player Tendencies. When looking over the list, I noticed the wide range of behaviors and how none of them are actually Scum (and only a couple are Town) tells. I feel this is useful (to myself, but maybe also to you) because it provides a baseline to check if the scum evidence being used could actually just fit into a sub-optimal townster profile."
If anyone else feels it would be productive to disclose their player tendencies, now's as good a time as any.
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On July 13 2013 07:41 jrkirby wrote:Ok. I've been studying this long and hard, and I think I have enough evidence to make a clear case. hzflank is scum+ Show Spoiler +On July 09 2013 04:04 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 03:22 WaveofShadow wrote:On July 09 2013 03:20 hzflank wrote:On July 09 2013 02:13 Stutters695 wrote:Obligatory USE YOUR COACHESWe're great guys and here to help  With WoS as the scum coach, I do not think that town will need your assistance. Uh, ouch? Need I remind you that you won a game with Ace as the scum coach too? I meant it as a compliment. Sometimes the greatest players are the worst coaches because you just cannot teach pure brilliance. Clearly, hzflank is lying about this compliment. Liars are always scum. And look who he's talking to: the scum coach. Obviously he's in league with them. He goes on, still talking to the scum: On July 09 2013 04:22 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 04:09 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
If you vote for an hzflank lynch based on pregame meta, I will fall instantly in love with you. Then scum should night kill the first person to vote for me, because as their lover you will also die. This is an obvious admission that he wants town to die. Anyone who wants town to die is scum, end of story. On July 13 2013 04:19 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 04:09 Chromatically wrote:
I won't be here for two hours after start. Then who will call my first post scummy?  I will. Right here, right now. And for his first post: On July 13 2013 07:11 hzflank wrote:
So we are using a majority vote system. As we all know there is much more chance of a No Lynch with this system than with plurality voting.
I think it is in our best interest to try to lynch someone every day. This may seem a bit odd at first, because a mis-lynch is obviously better for scum than for town. However, the only way that town will win is by lynching scum, and we will never be sure if we are lynching town or scum unless the lynch actually goes through. If we narrowly fail to lynch then we end up spending the next day discussing it and do not move forward as much.
Also, scum already know who they are. When someone is lynched the alignment information from their flip benefits town, but not scum.
Therefore, I suggest we work together as much as possible to actually get lynches through, if they are in doubt. He's trying to get us to sheep together and follow a Bandwagon instead of looking for evidence and finding scum. Finally: On July 13 2013 07:31 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 07:26 Koshi wrote:
Are there experienced players here? People that played a decent amount of games. Everyone here has played 3 or less games. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 07:24 Koshi wrote:
Hi all. I played 1 newbie game in the TL+ forums and I am atm also playing in the nuclear mafia game.
I am with Rainbows on the lynching of lurkers. The tl+ game got RUINED because nobody posted. So if you are town, I want you to make around 10 posts a day. Try to make posts that are aggressive and confront people with your thought. Don't be afraid to be wrong. If you are town, please consider doing this to help town and force scum to make posts.
I think it is a bit early to be thinking about policy lynches on lurkers. Policy lynching can stifle discussion and we need discussion today. Once we get 24-36 hours in then we can consider it. Also, sometimes RL just happens for a day or two. Also, I think that there will be enough activity here. There are several players who I know will post a lot and we (the active players) cannot all die really early. Trying to defend one of the scum who is planning to lurk. You can't ignore all this evidence guys. hzflank is scum.
Haha, the kid's got jokes! I like it.
...
But I don't like you.
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On July 13 2013 08:19 Koshi wrote:
@Hurricane Sponge
Koshi: I am still learning on how to play the game properly. I am extremely bad at scumhunting. I get very easily annoyed by people saying that I am scum (I am working on this). I love fluff posts. I hate illogical posts but it seems that illogical does not mean you are scum, however, I am not planning on ever making an illogical post and when I do please call me on it.
As you can see, I got a lot of bad qualities that make me look scum all the time. However, I always prove that I am town by trying and hopefully this game I can prove it by actually nailing some scumreads.
You're much more likely to find posts that make 'leaps in logic' (e.g. assumptions), not ones that are strictly 'illogical'.
I'd just recommend posting in volume with analysis. Going back through people's filters is a good way to contribute if you don't feel like you have anything new or topical to say about the current dialogue. For me, posting a lot was a good way to get the jitters out of my system in my newbie game. Fluff is bad, but people telling you to stop is way better than not posting enough because you were afraid you were spamming.
Over a large enough sample size, truth wins out in the end. If you're active, you'll have nothing to worry about receive a normal level of suspicion.
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On July 13 2013 08:22 StiMaDDict wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Sponge posting his Early Day 1 Conversation Starter?
Sponge posting his Early Day 1 Conversation Starter.
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Pre-written segment starts now:
3 points to raise, in order of importance from highest priority to lowest.
1.) This game is Majority lynch: There will be 2(+) wagons per day. By the end of the day, you need to pick scummiest one and join it (no lynch = bad). Don't tunnel your read at the cost of town kp (e.g. the lynch). If you don't think either wagon is more scummier than the other, analyze the people on each wagon. You'll find you trust one of the groups of voters more than the other, even if your feelings on the lynch candidates are a wash.
CAVEAT: Feel free to hold out as long as you feel is necessary during the day to make your point. Ideally, you'll join a wagon a couple hours before the deadline. If there's 12 hours left, scumhunt the hell out of the guy no one is looking at. Hell, you might be able to get a serious wagon going on him. But if that clock is counting down, and your vote is flying solo, I don't want to hear "Oh, I was going to switch at the last second, but my internet went out" if it cost us a lynch for that day.
2.) Pet peeve: There is a separate voting thread for this game. No ninja votes. Disclose all votes and unvotes redundantly in this thread. Ninja votes may not be a scum tell, but I would consider it a personal favor.
3.) One of the big pieces of advice I keep hearing from the veterans is to not use meta in these newbie games. I took this advice one step further: I submit that unless you make a concentrated effort, you will subconsciously naturally use what little meta you have on your fellow players when making crucial decisions. In short. "Don't Use Meta" is not a call for inaction, but rather a call to actively eliminate meta arguments and bias from your decision-making process.
Upon realizing the importance of identifying my own biases, I am hereby disclosing everything I think I know now. If you catch me treating you based on any of the following, ask me to support it with analysis from this game if you feel I'm being unfair or displaying bias: (quicklist)
Xzavier: strong townie reads, poor scumhunter (susceptible to OMGUS). contributes to discussion when questioned directly. syntax and post construction can sometimes be an issue. inconsistent activity level (can be a high volume poster or post in blocks in the same game). Been Mislynched in last two games- implies poor ability to defend pressure as town. unknown scum game.
hz: strong approach to the game. methodical analysis that leads to accurate reads as town. as town: willing to post elaborate conspiracy theories for public scrutiny to vet all possible venues of analysis ('no stone unturned'-type player). "This guy is Town that thinks like Scum but posts with pro-town logic. Very dangerous." - Ace Himself (NMMXLIII Scum QT) (powerful ally as town, dangerous foe as scum). can scumhunt solo or lead town as town. if you reach endgame or near-endgame with him and think he's been too good a player to be scum, re-evaluate. he is that good.
Umasi: volume poster as town. (11 pages of filter in the 84-page NMMXLII) posts can be emotional but often contain strong arguments / positions or other useful content. Analysis skills may be suspect (poor voting history in NMMXLII), and may tilt from pressure as town. Has shown willingness to tunnel as town.
Chromatically: strong analyzer of both town and scum. has the ability to drive town discussion in positive directions as town. sheepable in this format (majority lynch) if townieness is confirmed / likely.
Gotard: low activity level. (In 84 pages of Newbie Mini Mafia XLII, amassed only a 3-page filter despite being the primary wagon on day 1) unknown analysis ability. tends to follow wagons as town. post content generally short-and-sweet (1-liners that get to the point when not making cases)- very little fluff.
Sponge: volume poster- high activity level. (15 pages of filter in 99-page NMMXLIII) content-based poster. weak town reads (slow to trust; defaults to town consensus). mediocre scum reads (more data needed). weakness to pre-flip relationships, NK analysis, and trying to 'solve' Power Roles as town.
StiMaDDict: notorious lurker as town. general contribution is one post per day: a massive case on someone right before the lynch deadline. willing to target popular and unpopular targets with his vote as town. weird self-voting meltdown in NMMXLII implies a certain level of Crazy in this player. Posting is generally content / analysis-driven (low fluff). More data needed.
The above are all characterized as Player Tendencies. When looking over the list, I noticed the wide range of behaviors and how none of them are actually Scum (and only a couple are Town) tells. I feel this is useful (to myself, but maybe also to you) because it provides a baseline to check if the scum evidence being used could actually just fit into a sub-optimal townster profile."
If anyone else feels it would be productive to disclose their player tendencies, now's as good a time as any. This guy.. *gentleman slow claps First of all, way better first post than the last game. Analysis on most of each player is very impressive, however you only meant it as a reference since it does contradict with your point #3, right? I second your point #1. You have plenty of time, people. Make a case if someone does seem suspicious to you and push aggressively for his/her lynch, however if the wagon didn't form close to the deadline, do review whatever wagon is on the table and vote out of those. On a side note, I can't really play my usual style of lurking and making a case at last second because of above reason. I will try to avoid it.
Exactly. It's a reference, and these biases don't mean anything because they were all exhibited by town players. That is: scumhunting based on these traits is unreliable. Those points are meant to reinforce #3 which is to say 'Meta Don't Matter', as parroted by our helpful veteran community.
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On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum?
Correct. I would not have posted this particular post as scum.
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On July 13 2013 08:30 hzflank wrote:Sponge, we cannot know for sure if that was actually written pre-game so I am treating it like it was written after the game started. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Upon realizing the importance of identifying my own biases, I am hereby disclosing everything I think I know now. If you catch me treating you based on any of the following, ask me to support it with analysis from this game if you feel I'm being unfair or displaying bias
Why are you giving people advice on how to refute your cases against them, before you even make the cases?
Because if I make a case based on meta, that's a red flag for me and I need to re-evaluate it.
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On July 13 2013 08:43 Rainbows wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:41 Umasi wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? On July 13 2013 08:20 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:07 StiMaDDict wrote:
I can only look at jrkirby's post as a pressure vote at this point. He didn't seem to be the type to joke around from the pre game though.
This post is scummy. Gives a reason for jkirbys post and then casts doubt on it. U scum? I'd be very interested in hearing your explanation as to why you honestly think this is scummy. I certainly wouldn't post that if I were scum, it is nothing but a good thing for town. Why WOULD he want to post that as scum? to look town. Scum love to spew general pro town thingsvto get ez town cred..
This is correct. In general, these sorts of posts should result in a null read in a veteran game. But Early Day 1, when it's generally assumed nothing interesting is happening, seemed like a good time to get PSA's out of the way for a newbie crowd.
The info is valuable, but it should not get me town cred. It's more important to me that there's a town consensus on the actual content of the post, not my alignment. (Plenty of time for that later.)
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On July 13 2013 08:46 jrkirby wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:42 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? Correct. I would not have posted this particular post as scum. But you might have posted another post starting with the same line. Or maybe you did post that as scum. But you certainly would never have said: The following was written on the contingency I got Scum in my role PM.
Hahaha! Very right you are, I hadn't thought of that.
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Umasi, stop defending me. Don't defend people in general. It's more valuable to hear them defend themselves by tenfold.
(Also, I don't want you handcuffing yourself to my ankle then flipping scum and having Town waste a bunch of time re-vetting me.)
On July 13 2013 08:48 jrkirby wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:47 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:46 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 08:42 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? Correct. I would not have posted this particular post as scum. But you might have posted another post starting with the same line. Or maybe you did post that as scum. But you certainly would never have said: The following was written on the contingency I got Scum in my role PM. Hahaha! Very right you are, I hadn't thought of that. So then show us the post that you would have posted if you rolled scum, eh?
This is a very reasonable request, but unfortunately I will not be posting it at this time for a couple reasons. First, it's not as impressive as the one I posted. Second, I intend to stay active in this community and will probably end up using a version of it at some point when (if?) I ever get that 'You Are Scum' PM.
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On July 13 2013 08:54 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:42 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? Correct. I would not have posted this particular post as scum. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:43 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:41 Umasi wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? On July 13 2013 08:20 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:07 StiMaDDict wrote:
I can only look at jrkirby's post as a pressure vote at this point. He didn't seem to be the type to joke around from the pre game though.
This post is scummy. Gives a reason for jkirbys post and then casts doubt on it. U scum? I'd be very interested in hearing your explanation as to why you honestly think this is scummy. I certainly wouldn't post that if I were scum, it is nothing but a good thing for town. Why WOULD he want to post that as scum? to look town. Scum love to spew general pro town thingsvto get ez town cred.. This is correct. In general, these sorts of posts should result in a null read in a veteran game. But Early Day 1, when it's generally assumed nothing interesting is happening, seemed like a good time to get PSA's out of the way for a newbie crowd. The info is valuable, but it should not get me town cred. It's more important to me that there's a town consensus on the actual content of the post, not my alignment. (Plenty of time for that later.) You obviously think that your post was pro town, right? That's why you shouldn't have posted it as scum. But then you say that you shouldn't get town cred from it, indicating that you don't think it's pro town. ?
Pro town in a newbie game, yes. Probably wouldn't have posted it in a Veteran game unless I really felt the Day 1 conversation stagnating early.
I think all my posts are pro-town. Otherwise, why would I post them? (That should apply to everyone but those with a severe inferiority complex.)
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On July 13 2013 09:05 Umasi wrote:
Kirby, I disagree.
Scum has more than one goal in a game, believe it or not. It's not just to build towncred, otherwise being scum would be easy. (imo)
Since all you'd have to do is be like me in the past game and post so fucking much and so irrationally that you won't get lynched
If that's your strategy for this game, I strongly urge you to reconsider. Activity is only half the battle.
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On July 13 2013 09:10 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:57 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:54 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:42 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? Correct. I would not have posted this particular post as scum. On July 13 2013 08:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:43 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:41 Umasi wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? On July 13 2013 08:20 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:07 StiMaDDict wrote:
I can only look at jrkirby's post as a pressure vote at this point. He didn't seem to be the type to joke around from the pre game though.
This post is scummy. Gives a reason for jkirbys post and then casts doubt on it. U scum? I'd be very interested in hearing your explanation as to why you honestly think this is scummy. I certainly wouldn't post that if I were scum, it is nothing but a good thing for town. Why WOULD he want to post that as scum? to look town. Scum love to spew general pro town thingsvto get ez town cred.. This is correct. In general, these sorts of posts should result in a null read in a veteran game. But Early Day 1, when it's generally assumed nothing interesting is happening, seemed like a good time to get PSA's out of the way for a newbie crowd. The info is valuable, but it should not get me town cred. It's more important to me that there's a town consensus on the actual content of the post, not my alignment. (Plenty of time for that later.) You obviously think that your post was pro town, right? That's why you shouldn't have posted it as scum. But then you say that you shouldn't get town cred from it, indicating that you don't think it's pro town. ? Pro town in a newbie game, yes. Probably wouldn't have posted it in a Veteran game unless I really felt the Day 1 conversation stagnating early. I think all my posts are pro-town. Otherwise, why would I post them? (That should apply to everyone but those with a severe inferiority complex.) That doesn't answer the point. The point is that your logic is inconsistant. You say that you wouldn't have posted this as scum. Why? You think that the post is valuable enough to town that scum wouldn't want to post it. You think that only a townie would post it. However, you say that you shouldn't get a town read for it, even though you think that only town would post it.
I'm not in the business of telling people I'm town. I'm going to scumhunt and try to win this game, and a byproduct of that should be that people will view me as town.
Put another way: I don't believe posting specifically with the goal of acquiring towncred is particularly helpful in anything but circumstances where I could be mislynched. I'm prioritizing getting the Town ducks in a row here in the early going so we can move on to the scumhunt, not establishing my Townie-ness.
Interestingly, people (Chrom and jrkirby) have seemed more interested in analyzing why I posted rather than what I posted. Can I infer by this that we largely agree with what I have said?
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On July 13 2013 09:22 jrkirby wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:14 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 09:10 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:57 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:54 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:42 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? Correct. I would not have posted this particular post as scum. On July 13 2013 08:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:43 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:41 Umasi wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? On July 13 2013 08:20 Rainbows wrote:
[quote]
This post is scummy. Gives a reason for jkirbys post and then casts doubt on it. U scum? I'd be very interested in hearing your explanation as to why you honestly think this is scummy. I certainly wouldn't post that if I were scum, it is nothing but a good thing for town. Why WOULD he want to post that as scum? to look town. Scum love to spew general pro town thingsvto get ez town cred.. This is correct. In general, these sorts of posts should result in a null read in a veteran game. But Early Day 1, when it's generally assumed nothing interesting is happening, seemed like a good time to get PSA's out of the way for a newbie crowd. The info is valuable, but it should not get me town cred. It's more important to me that there's a town consensus on the actual content of the post, not my alignment. (Plenty of time for that later.) You obviously think that your post was pro town, right? That's why you shouldn't have posted it as scum. But then you say that you shouldn't get town cred from it, indicating that you don't think it's pro town. ? Pro town in a newbie game, yes. Probably wouldn't have posted it in a Veteran game unless I really felt the Day 1 conversation stagnating early. I think all my posts are pro-town. Otherwise, why would I post them? (That should apply to everyone but those with a severe inferiority complex.) That doesn't answer the point. The point is that your logic is inconsistant. You say that you wouldn't have posted this as scum. Why? You think that the post is valuable enough to town that scum wouldn't want to post it. You think that only a townie would post it. However, you say that you shouldn't get a town read for it, even though you think that only town would post it. I'm not in the business of telling people I'm town. I'm going to scumhunt and try to win this game, and a byproduct of that should be that people will view me as town. Put another way: I don't believe posting specifically with the goal of acquiring towncred is particularly helpful in anything but circumstances where I could be mislynched. I'm prioritizing getting the Town ducks in a row here in the early going so we can move on to the scumhunt, not establishing my Townie-ness. Interestingly, people (Chrom and jrkirby) have seemed more interested in analyzing why I posted rather than what I posted. Can I infer by this that we largely agree with what I have said? Pretty much what you said was: meta is bad, this is the meta that I might accidentally do. That's fine, neither particularly good nor bad imo. But you claimed that you would only post it on the condition that you were town. You admit to having a post that you would post on the condition that you're scum (which I think is foolish), but you won't show it to us, and that's just a tiny bit suspicious.
That's fine. I'll take the suspicion. I put a bit of thought into my scum post, and I want to use it in a later game. I don't see how it helps us win this game, so I'm not going to post it now.
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On July 13 2013 09:21 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:33 Superfluous wrote:
While I agree that we should lynch someone if they are super scummy, I'd like to point out that voting for no lynch is an option. Assuming I'm interpreting the rules/setup right, mafia only has 1 kp so there's no immediate motive for lynching such as reducing kp. It may be a stronger play to not lynch and hope that cop(if there is one) gets a turn to check before lynch. It is a risk though because I believe we are not guaranteed to have a cop. Just an idea I wanted to throw out and get your guys' thoughts on. Can I ask what everyone thinks of this? Superfluous feels like the most solid lynch at the moment, to me, as I've stated. Most others have just ignored it does anyone have thoughts on it?
I think he's wrong. There are several communities where a Day 1 No Lynch is standard for town, for exactly the reasons he stated: They have a cop to bail them out. We don't know if there's a cop in this game (and there are several other reasons we've gone over), so that strategy doesn't apply.
Basically, it's a non-contributory post that casts suspicion on him.
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On July 13 2013 09:25 StiMaDDict wrote:Another thing that is annoying the fuck out of me is that how Rainbow "interpreted" my post. This is what I wrote. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:07 StiMaDDict wrote:
I can only look at jrkirby's post as a pressure vote at this point. He didn't seem to be the type to joke around from the pre game though.
Explanation: I find a pressure vote to be a strategy for some people. It works sometimes but not all the times. jrkirby's "case" really is not something of content to be honest. I assumed that it was pressure vote to get some discussions going. So that is what I said. As for the second sentence, his "case" is really fucking bullshit, so there are two possibilities. Either he is joking around or he suck at scumhunting. Now let's look at how Rainbow made me sound like. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:20 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:07 StiMaDDict wrote:
I can only look at jrkirby's post as a pressure vote at this point. He didn't seem to be the type to joke around from the pre game though.
This post is scummy. Gives a reason for jkirbys post and then casts doubt on it. U scum? Scummy? Yes, I did give jkirby's post a reason but I didn't doubt it. If I had said it was a joke vote and he didn't seem to be a joker, your statement makes sense. I said pressure vote and nothing more. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:28 Rainbows wrote:
Yes. What is odd about his vote? Why ia this joking around suspicious? I didn't fucking say it was odd. Jesus, give me a break. I NEVER FUCKING SAID IT WAS SUSPICIOUS. Note to all: + Show Spoiler +btw, I'm really trying to stay active. Sometimes I write really slow and I might be answering something that is couple of pages back. Sometimes I write one liners. My bad. + Show Spoiler +If you don't like it, well fuck you
Ask Xzavier how insulting the thread turns out.
(Keep it civil if you can.)
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Since I have to spell it out for the thread (StiM, Umasi....)
Try not to defend your town reads. Let them defend themselves. We get more content via a direct conversation, and if scum is barking up the wrong tree, he'll be scared off if three townies rush to someone's defense.
It is written: Lo, and let thy scum tunnel; for when they tunnel the town, the Town tunnels into you.
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EBWOP: 'defending town reads' meaning jumping to someone's defense when they get FoS'd. Obviously, defend your literal town reads (example: Bad guy: "Your town reads suck!" You: "No, they don't! Here's why...")
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On July 13 2013 09:38 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:33 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Since I have to spell it out for the thread (StiM, Umasi....)
Try not to defend your town reads. Let them defend themselves. We get more content via a direct conversation, and if scum is barking up the wrong tree, he'll be scared off if three townies rush to someone's defense.
It is written: Lo, and let thy scum tunnel; for when they tunnel the town, the Town tunnels into you. What made you assume I thought you were a town read? I don't think I've said anything like that, and I actually don't have you as town (or scum) attacking someones logic is not a claim that someone else is townie, it's just saying "this is stupid"
That's fine. I'm just generally uncomfortable with people attacking my attacker when I'm perfectly able to defend myself. Honestly, I think I was getting more info from Kirby than he was from me, but he seems to have been scared off at this point regardless.
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On July 13 2013 09:41 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:35 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 09:30 StiMaDDict wrote:On July 13 2013 09:22 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 09:14 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 09:10 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:57 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:54 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:42 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:
[quote]
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum?
Correct. I would not have posted this particular post as scum. On July 13 2013 08:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:43 Rainbows wrote:
[quote]
to look town. Scum love to spew general pro town thingsvto get ez town cred..
This is correct. In general, these sorts of posts should result in a null read in a veteran game. But Early Day 1, when it's generally assumed nothing interesting is happening, seemed like a good time to get PSA's out of the way for a newbie crowd. The info is valuable, but it should not get me town cred. It's more important to me that there's a town consensus on the actual content of the post, not my alignment. (Plenty of time for that later.) You obviously think that your post was pro town, right? That's why you shouldn't have posted it as scum. But then you say that you shouldn't get town cred from it, indicating that you don't think it's pro town. ? Pro town in a newbie game, yes. Probably wouldn't have posted it in a Veteran game unless I really felt the Day 1 conversation stagnating early. I think all my posts are pro-town. Otherwise, why would I post them? (That should apply to everyone but those with a severe inferiority complex.) That doesn't answer the point. The point is that your logic is inconsistant. You say that you wouldn't have posted this as scum. Why? You think that the post is valuable enough to town that scum wouldn't want to post it. You think that only a townie would post it. However, you say that you shouldn't get a town read for it, even though you think that only town would post it. I'm not in the business of telling people I'm town. I'm going to scumhunt and try to win this game, and a byproduct of that should be that people will view me as town. Put another way: I don't believe posting specifically with the goal of acquiring towncred is particularly helpful in anything but circumstances where I could be mislynched. I'm prioritizing getting the Town ducks in a row here in the early going so we can move on to the scumhunt, not establishing my Townie-ness. Interestingly, people (Chrom and jrkirby) have seemed more interested in analyzing why I posted rather than what I posted. Can I infer by this that we largely agree with what I have said? Pretty much what you said was: meta is bad, this is the meta that I might accidentally do. That's fine, neither particularly good nor bad imo. But you claimed that you would only post it on the condition that you were town. You admit to having a post that you would post on the condition that you're scum (which I think is foolish), but you won't show it to us, and that's just a tiny bit suspicious. Seriously man.. this is the best you can do? If he has scum post, big deal. For all we know THIS could be his scum post. Who knows. Is this your first game jrkirby? "For all we know, THIS could be his scum post." That's exactly what I was trying to get information on. Here was my reasoning: if this is his scum post, then he won't HAVE a real scum post. But it's been long enough that he could've written another one by now, so no point in pushing it anymore. No, this is my second game, kinda. Why is there no point in pushing it? There's no reason to not push it if you think it was scummy, and if you were pushing it for the sake of having something to do, just go do something else. Still, more people, what do you think of Superfluous post and then disappearance?
If you were posting with the serious intent of scumhunting him, don't let me stop you. The vibe I got from you and StiM was 'Dude, just stop.'
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On July 13 2013 09:53 Superfluous wrote:
To address some things, especially umasi I guess. I apologize for not answering sooner, the other forums I have played on move much slower and there arent 2 and a half pages of posts after being gone for just 3-4 hours. I would be annoyed at your pushing but I think in general its a good town move as it forces information out of people. All I was saying is that, to me, we have a higher chance of lynching town than mafia. We may also end up outing a role prematurely by pushing for a day one lynch. The games that I've played/followed where mafia has 1 kp it's standard to not lynch day one. Here there is no guarantee of cop so it's different, that's why I was asking about others' opinions and not saying we 100% should do it. Sorry if you felt my post was irrelevant but no one else had even pointed it out as an option. I feel like I'm just re stating what I already said in my previous post, not sure what else you want.
This is the NN claim all over again. Difference of opinion on policy is going to lead to a major wagon. Know your history, kids!
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Just caught up on the thread for entertainment purposes:
First thoughts:
This fits StiM's playbook to a letter. The self-vote and martyring happened in XLII. Unfortunately, this happened while he was Town, so this doesn't really tell us anything. I like that there are other reasons for the votes (haven't done proper analysis yet), but I strongly encourage people to not interpret StiM on tilt as a scumtell.
Going back now to read the entire train of thought in context now:
Early on, StiM breaks down why he thought the kirby jokepost wasn't credible. (This elicits a big eyeroll, but is pretty benign albeit unnecessary).
+ Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 09:25 StiMaDDict wrote:@RainbowAlso my read on jrkirby is null. This is a response to a request for elaboration from Rainbow. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 07:41 jrkirby wrote:Ok. I've been studying this long and hard, and I think I have enough evidence to make a clear case. hzflank is scumShow nested quote +On July 09 2013 04:04 hzflank wrote:On July 09 2013 03:22 WaveofShadow wrote:On July 09 2013 03:20 hzflank wrote:On July 09 2013 02:13 Stutters695 wrote:Obligatory USE YOUR COACHESWe're great guys and here to help With WoS as the scum coach, I do not think that town will need your assistance. Uh, ouch? Need I remind you that you won a game with Ace as the scum coach too? I meant it as a compliment. Sometimes the greatest players are the worst coaches because you just cannot teach pure brilliance. Clearly, hzflank is lying about this compliment. Liars are always scum. And look who he's talking to: the scum coach. Obviously he's in league with them. He goes on, still talking to the scum: Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 04:22 hzflank wrote:On July 09 2013 04:09 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
If you vote for an hzflank lynch based on pregame meta, I will fall instantly in love with you. Then scum should night kill the first person to vote for me, because as their lover you will also die. This is an obvious admission that he wants town to die. Anyone who wants town to die is scum, end of story. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 04:19 hzflank wrote:On July 13 2013 04:09 Chromatically wrote:
I won't be here for two hours after start. Then who will call my first post scummy? I will. Right here, right now. Pregame posts when people didn't even get their role pm are evidence to his case. Do I need to say more? Show nested quote +Clearly, hzflank is lying about this compliment. Liars are always scum. And look who he's talking to: the scum coach. Obviously he's in league with them.
He goes on, still talking to the scum: Not sure where he is going with this one.. Show nested quote +This is an obvious admission that he wants town to die. Anyone who wants town to die is scum, end of story. He hasn't even fucking got his role pm and he's joking around pregame. ok.. + Show Spoiler +And for his first post: Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 07:11 hzflank wrote:
So we are using a majority vote system. As we all know there is much more chance of a No Lynch with this system than with plurality voting.
I think it is in our best interest to try to lynch someone every day. This may seem a bit odd at first, because a mis-lynch is obviously better for scum than for town. However, the only way that town will win is by lynching scum, and we will never be sure if we are lynching town or scum unless the lynch actually goes through. If we narrowly fail to lynch then we end up spending the next day discussing it and do not move forward as much.
Also, scum already know who they are. When someone is lynched the alignment information from their flip benefits town, but not scum.
Therefore, I suggest we work together as much as possible to actually get lynches through, if they are in doubt. He's trying to get us to sheep together and follow a Bandwagon instead of looking for evidence and finding scum. Finally: Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 07:31 hzflank wrote:On July 13 2013 07:26 Koshi wrote:
Are there experienced players here? People that played a decent amount of games. Everyone here has played 3 or less games. On July 13 2013 07:24 Koshi wrote:
Hi all. I played 1 newbie game in the TL+ forums and I am atm also playing in the nuclear mafia game.
I am with Rainbows on the lynching of lurkers. The tl+ game got RUINED because nobody posted. So if you are town, I want you to make around 10 posts a day. Try to make posts that are aggressive and confront people with your thought. Don't be afraid to be wrong. If you are town, please consider doing this to help town and force scum to make posts.
I think it is a bit early to be thinking about policy lynches on lurkers. Policy lynching can stifle discussion and we need discussion today. Once we get 24-36 hours in then we can consider it. Also, sometimes RL just happens for a day or two. Also, I think that there will be enough activity here. There are several players who I know will post a lot and we (the active players) cannot all die really early. Trying to defend one of the scum who is planning to lurk. You can't ignore all this evidence guys. hzflank is scum. ##Vote: hzflankShow nested quote +And for his first post:
He's trying to get us to sheep together and follow a Bandwagon instead of looking for evidence and finding scum. I am not trying to defend hzflank in any shape or form however I do not agree with jrkirby's "read" on hzflank's post and I do not think it was alignment indicative. Again I do not think this post point hzflank as a scum.
Then comes the massive over-reaction:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 09:25 StiMaDDict wrote:Another thing that is annoying the fuck out of me is that how Rainbow "interpreted" my post. This is what I wrote. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:07 StiMaDDict wrote:
I can only look at jrkirby's post as a pressure vote at this point. He didn't seem to be the type to joke around from the pre game though.
Explanation: I find a pressure vote to be a strategy for some people. It works sometimes but not all the times. jrkirby's "case" really is not something of content to be honest. I assumed that it was pressure vote to get some discussions going. So that is what I said. As for the second sentence, his "case" is really fucking bullshit, so there are two possibilities. Either he is joking around or he suck at scumhunting. Now let's look at how Rainbow made me sound like. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:20 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:07 StiMaDDict wrote:
I can only look at jrkirby's post as a pressure vote at this point. He didn't seem to be the type to joke around from the pre game though.
This post is scummy. Gives a reason for jkirbys post and then casts doubt on it. U scum? Scummy? Yes, I did give jkirby's post a reason but I didn't doubt it. If I had said it was a joke vote and he didn't seem to be a joker, your statement makes sense. I said pressure vote and nothing more. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:28 Rainbows wrote:
Yes. What is odd about his vote? Why ia this joking around suspicious? I didn't fucking say it was odd. Jesus, give me a break. I NEVER FUCKING SAID IT WAS SUSPICIOUS. Note to all: + Show Spoiler +btw, I'm really trying to stay active. Sometimes I write really slow and I might be answering something that is couple of pages back. Sometimes I write one liners. My bad. + Show Spoiler +If you don't like it, well fuck you
I've read that post ten times, and can't really glean anything meaningful other than that StiM is in full-on turtle-up Defend Self At All Costs mode. Not necessarily a scumtell in a newbie game, I guess. I mean, who wants to die? Still, odd.
Chromatically notes that one of these posts sits very oddly with him (I'd guess it's the second one), but StiM's next post is one defending me / going after Kirby:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 09:30 StiMaDDict wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:22 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 09:14 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 09:10 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:57 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:54 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:42 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? Correct. I would not have posted this particular post as scum. On July 13 2013 08:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:43 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:41 Umasi wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:
[quote]
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum?
[quote]
I'd be very interested in hearing your explanation as to why you honestly think this is scummy. I certainly wouldn't post that if I were scum, it is nothing but a good thing for town. Why WOULD he want to post that as scum? to look town. Scum love to spew general pro town thingsvto get ez town cred.. This is correct. In general, these sorts of posts should result in a null read in a veteran game. But Early Day 1, when it's generally assumed nothing interesting is happening, seemed like a good time to get PSA's out of the way for a newbie crowd. The info is valuable, but it should not get me town cred. It's more important to me that there's a town consensus on the actual content of the post, not my alignment. (Plenty of time for that later.) You obviously think that your post was pro town, right? That's why you shouldn't have posted it as scum. But then you say that you shouldn't get town cred from it, indicating that you don't think it's pro town. ? Pro town in a newbie game, yes. Probably wouldn't have posted it in a Veteran game unless I really felt the Day 1 conversation stagnating early. I think all my posts are pro-town. Otherwise, why would I post them? (That should apply to everyone but those with a severe inferiority complex.) That doesn't answer the point. The point is that your logic is inconsistant. You say that you wouldn't have posted this as scum. Why? You think that the post is valuable enough to town that scum wouldn't want to post it. You think that only a townie would post it. However, you say that you shouldn't get a town read for it, even though you think that only town would post it. I'm not in the business of telling people I'm town. I'm going to scumhunt and try to win this game, and a byproduct of that should be that people will view me as town. Put another way: I don't believe posting specifically with the goal of acquiring towncred is particularly helpful in anything but circumstances where I could be mislynched. I'm prioritizing getting the Town ducks in a row here in the early going so we can move on to the scumhunt, not establishing my Townie-ness. Interestingly, people (Chrom and jrkirby) have seemed more interested in analyzing why I posted rather than what I posted. Can I infer by this that we largely agree with what I have said? Pretty much what you said was: meta is bad, this is the meta that I might accidentally do. That's fine, neither particularly good nor bad imo. But you claimed that you would only post it on the condition that you were town. You admit to having a post that you would post on the condition that you're scum (which I think is foolish), but you won't show it to us, and that's just a tiny bit suspicious. Seriously man.. this is the best you can do? If he has scum post, big deal. For all we know THIS could be his scum post. Who knows. Is this your first game jrkirby?
So early in the game, I have felt pressure from Kirby and Chrom, while receiving unsolicited White Knighting from Umasi and StiM. (Side note: If there's some crazy mafia play floating around out there to chum up to me to make me look scummy after you guys flip Red, that's a losing strategy, boys.)
Important post from hz regarding StiM flipping out while everyone else interpreted the jokepost as a joke:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 09:58 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:44 Rainbows wrote:
What do you think about Stims reaction, HZ? He kinda derailed to some soft pressure :/ The first thing to note is that Stim was unsure of whether Jrkirby's post was a joke or not. Stim reacted very different than everyone else did, but this could be because he viewed it as semi-serious while everyone else viewed it as a joke. After that Stim tries to defend himself. Again Stim's reaction seems odd at first, but normal if you consider that Stim thinks the original case was serious. Stim is posting in an aggressive manner but that is more of a personality tell than an alignment tell. I cannot help but be wish-washy here and conclude: I am eager to see more from Stim because I have absolutely no read on his alignment at this point.
Immediately, the first thing I thought of was that there is no way in hell the scum QT would let him continue ranting and raving like this. They would have told him immediately to chill out and claim he was joking too, or something. Bolding because this is the first real revelation I've had on this case.
If someone can provide a logical answer to the above, I'd appreciate it. Re: If StiM was Scum, would scum have really let him react this poorly and dig his own grave for this long?
Moving on: Rainbow seems to be sheeping Chromatically's pressure on StiM a bit.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 10:01 Rainbows wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:58 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 09:25 StiMaDDict wrote:Another thing that is annoying the fuck out of me is that how Rainbow "interpreted" my post. This is what I wrote. On July 13 2013 08:07 StiMaDDict wrote:
I can only look at jrkirby's post as a pressure vote at this point. He didn't seem to be the type to joke around from the pre game though.
Explanation: I find a pressure vote to be a strategy for some people. It works sometimes but not all the times. jrkirby's "case" really is not something of content to be honest. I assumed that it was pressure vote to get some discussions going. So that is what I said. As for the second sentence, his "case" is really fucking bullshit, so there are two possibilities. Either he is joking around or he suck at scumhunting.
So you posted it because you wanted to point out that he's either a townie joking or a bad townie? Why would you post the second sentence at all? And then someone else words it better than I can. Bravo.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 10:03 Rainbows wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:01 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 09:52 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 09:47 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 09:26 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 09:21 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 09:12 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:41 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? On July 13 2013 08:20 Rainbows wrote:
[quote]
This post is scummy. Gives a reason for jkirbys post and then casts doubt on it. U scum? I'd be very interested in hearing your explanation as to why you honestly think this is scummy. It's scummy because it's renouncing jkirbys jokepost while he gave a reason for it. He never explains why this joking around is suspicious just passively finger points. I want to hear elaboration. "It's a pressure vote, but his joking is wierd because he doesn't seem like a joker." Where's the inconsistency? The point is he is finger pointing without actually doing anything like asking a question.I want to hear his response It sounded like you had two points. 1) "It's scummy because it's renouncing jkirbys jokepost while he gave a reason for it." (inconsistency) 2) "He never explains why this joking around is suspicious just passively finger points." (finger pointing) Maybe I wasn't explicit enough. Is this untrue? I assume pressure vote = town move and then he says jkirby is joking which is unlike him = scummy? two separate feels imo. Are you asking me..? Or is that a reason why you thought it was scummy? The reason I thought it scummy. It's hard to say how I thought about it, but then again I post rather sporadically with random thoughts.
Finally getting to the part where StiM starts posting about whether or not he was mad. Chromatically seems to be leading this attack. StiM gets tripped up trying to explain whether he was mad or pretending to be mad. None of this comes of making StiM look good.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 12:59 StiMaDDict wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 12:49 Chromatically wrote:This Stim thing doesn't make sense at all. Look at the chain of events: 1) Rainbow pressures Stim 2) Stim posts an angry response 3) Stim claims that his anger was due to formatting 4) Stim claims that he wasn't actually angry, and that he acted like it to get a reaction. 3 and 4 are incompatible. Stim is claiming that he was angry from the formatting, and then lied about his reasoning for doing it later. This doesn't make sense from a town perspective. On July 13 2013 11:55 StiMaDDict wrote:
I did respond quite aggressively and in an angry manner, even though I was not really angry at all. There were 2 purposes: 1) To see if Rainbow would 'flinch' 2) To establish myself to others as capable of defending myself. Conclusion: He didn't flinch and I did clear my name somewhat. I could have counter pressured to get some sort of read from Rainbow, however I didn't, because it IS early in the game and without proving myself as an active town, it would have a less of impact and leave a bad impression of me.
Town wouldn't say "There were 2 purposes" for their anger if they had just made up those purposes now. Town most certainly wouldn't say "I wasn't actually angry" if they were, like Stim is claiming he was now. ##Vote: StimI'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts. Edit: If this is what you came up with, then gg wp. Not really motivating to play anymore really.
.... and then he takes his ball and goes home. Color me baffled. Could be town (like I said, he has proven he's willing to vote himself and go on tilt really easily), but definitely could be scum panicking. Moreso, I'm offended by his implication that the onus is on US to keep HIM entertained and willing to play this game.
Then Umasi joins the bandwagon:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 13:06 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:49 StiMaDDict wrote:
I may be biased but I put Chromatically as the most capable scumhunter. In last game, he pretty much had the whole scum team Day1. It goes without saying that I do not Chromatically's alignment as of right now.
@Chromatically Your current scum reads? Looking at it as stim is scum, it feels like he's trying to buddy him up as he has him read as a threat. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:50 StiMaDDict wrote:
Edit: *It goes without saying that I do not know Chromatically's alignment as of right now This reads to me as trying to assuage a concern someone would have with it before someone talked about it. And seriously, why would you even bother doing that? Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 12:59 StiMaDDict wrote:On July 13 2013 12:49 Chromatically wrote:This Stim thing doesn't make sense at all. Look at the chain of events: 1) Rainbow pressures Stim 2) Stim posts an angry response 3) Stim claims that his anger was due to formatting 4) Stim claims that he wasn't actually angry, and that he acted like it to get a reaction. 3 and 4 are incompatible. Stim is claiming that he was angry from the formatting, and then lied about his reasoning for doing it later. This doesn't make sense from a town perspective. On July 13 2013 11:55 StiMaDDict wrote:
I did respond quite aggressively and in an angry manner, even though I was not really angry at all. There were 2 purposes: 1) To see if Rainbow would 'flinch' 2) To establish myself to others as capable of defending myself. Conclusion: He didn't flinch and I did clear my name somewhat. I could have counter pressured to get some sort of read from Rainbow, however I didn't, because it IS early in the game and without proving myself as an active town, it would have a less of impact and leave a bad impression of me.
Town wouldn't say "There were 2 purposes" for their anger if they had just made up those purposes now. Town most certainly wouldn't say "I wasn't actually angry" if they were, like Stim is claiming he was now. ##Vote: StimI'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts. Edit: If this is what you came up with, then gg wp. Not really motivating to play anymore really. It's not motivating to play because you don't have perma town cred? Expect people to think you're scum, or not guaranteed town. Like, why is it gg? If I remember you said Chrom was a solid scumhunter. It's actually up there in this post Don't omgus out of the fucking game, because that is not pro town, not defensible, and a surefire way to be lynched. And if you're town, that's obviously bad, because you're directly hurting town, wasting our time and not scumhunting. If you're scum, that's ALSO an awful idea, because you're just saccing yourself. Basically, rethink this and ignore what chrom has said about you and go contribute as much as you can in a protown way to turn opinions around, not just complain "I don't like people thinking I'm scum" You are now a priority to figure out over Superfluous, although I still am looking at Superfluous. ##UNVOTE##VOTE StiMadDDict
The first two 'reasons' reek of confirmation bias, and don't hold any weight for me. It could be construed as a scum Umasi hopping on a surefire bandwagon, but I have no confidence based on his earlier play that this poor play is inconsistent with a Town Umasi.
Other valuable thoughts to avoid Quadposting:
- I disagree with Superfluous' opinion on policy about No Lynch Day 1's, but the similarities to the Aqua - NN Claim issue is so striking I actually laughed aloud. My gut read was 'he's scum, day 1 lynch is the best play', but now I realize how the people pushing for Aqua's lynch Day 1 felt!
- Umasi really rushed to my defense early and often which leaves me with a weird scummy feeling for some reason. Kirby and Chrom were pressuring me, but they weren't firing fastballs. I feel like I explained myself well, but Umasi's intrusion made the whole exchange way more combative than I felt it deserved. Right now, my nightmare is that Umasi flips scum, and people link him to me via these early exchanges, leading to my own mislynch.
- Combining these two thoughts, Umasi then votes Superfluous for his 'scummy as crap' Day 1 No Lynch post (which I have explained in bullet point #1 I think is wrong, but not scummy).
- People are being too hard on lurkers (especially people who posted at the game start and then disappeared). It's talk that doesn't move the game forward because it's a freaking Friday Night. Umasi's supporting 'evidence' (i.e. he's lurking) on Superfluous is what inspired this bulletpoint, pointed out nicely by hz:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 09:42 hzflank wrote:I think Jrkirby's and Sponge's opening posts had the same motivation: to get discussion moving. Both have done this and we have multiple discussions taking place. Since then, Sponge did a little coaching. Sponge has come under pressure from multiple people (for his opening post), and has dealt with it while being reasonably open. The only time that he has not been open is by refusing to post the other version of his opening post. Sponge did a little coaching again as he tried to stop Umasi from defending him. So far my read on Sponge has moved very slightly towards town. Since his opening, Jrkirby has attacked Sponge for his opening post, and done nothing else. That's fine because it is early and Jrkirby is pushing to get a reaction from someone. This is not scummy to me, null read. Umasi has defended Hurricane, which cannot be viewed as scummy at this point. Umasi has attacked Superfluous. I would say that this attack could be scummy as it is based on nothing, but it could just be to get Super to post more (he only has one post). Umasi then repeats that he thinks Super's post is scummy and votes for him. The problem I have with this is that Umasi claims Super's only post was scummy, when I do not think that it was. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:33 Superfluous wrote:
While I agree that we should lynch someone if they are super scummy, I'd like to point out that voting for no lynch is an option. Assuming I'm interpreting the rules/setup right, mafia only has 1 kp so there's no immediate motive for lynching such as reducing kp. It may be a stronger play to not lynch and hope that cop(if there is one) gets a turn to check before lynch. It is a risk though because I believe we are not guaranteed to have a cop. Just an idea I wanted to throw out and get your guys' thoughts on. If Umasi was looking for a reaction then I do not understand why he posted: Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:59 Umasi wrote:
Where the hell are you. You popped in, gave a single post, that I think is scummy as crap, still haven't show back up. Pretty confusing, because the post you gave was irrelevant. How was Super's post scummy as crap? I do not think that Umasi is looking for scum, and if he is not just fishing for Super to respond then I think that Umasi is just looking for a neutral place to put his early vote. Unlike Jrkirby's, Umasi's vote is not a troll vote. I have a slight scum read on Umasi.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 10:56 Umasi wrote:
He came in, emphasized his newness to the game, and it felt like he was giving excuses for not posting, not reasons.
(I realize that they're extremely similar, but I think it's a matter of tone)
the timing he came in at (right when we brought up lurkers) to be like "I'm trying not to lurk"
is just
kind of......weird?
I think it's out of place and scummy.
Unlike hz, however, I think these are just bad reads and bad play. Could be scum, of course, but it could equally likely be town. Still some good content, on my radar, and I'm glad hz pointed it out. Chromatically chimes in later with a post on Superfluous saying he has tried to not 'rock the boat' (which is exactly what he did with the No Lynch position he took):
+ Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 10:59 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:49 StiMaDDict wrote:
I may be biased but I put Chromatically as the most capable scumhunter. In last game, he pretty much had the whole scum team Day1. It goes without saying that I do not Chromatically's alignment as of right now.
@Chromatically Your current scum reads? Superfluous looks really bad, he's been apologetic in his posts (not trying to rock the boat) and has only said what others have already said. It looks like he's trying hard to find anything to post about because he wants to look active. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:05 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 09:55 Umasi wrote:
Superfluous, do you have any current scum reads? At the moment no, as I said I was gone for a couple hours then came back and just skimmed through the thread . I mean to go through it again in more detail once I'm finished defending myself or w/e. Two things are on my mind though. One is that I think you are town (not just to suck up to you b/c you are pressuring me). Reasons being that in my personal experience those who are most aggressive are generally town, and also that this is a semi-noob game so I'm unsure if a mafia would have the confidence to go out and control the game/ put pressure on early on. Another thing is that I dont think I've seen much (if anything) from Cloud 9. He may be in same situation as me and I'll give him Benefit of the doubt though. It's extremely odd that he specifically points out Cloud-9 as opposed to any of the other players who haven't posted. This shows pretty clearly that he's not trying at all to find scum, he doesn't even know who hasn't posted. Also looking at Kirby. Lurkers be lurking.
Yet more Superfluous pressure from Umasi.... the tunnel is on?:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 11:02 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:58 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 10:56 Umasi wrote:
He came in, emphasized his newness to the game, and it felt like he was giving excuses for not posting, not reasons.
(I realize that they're extremely similar, but I think it's a matter of tone)
the timing he came in at (right when we brought up lurkers) to be like "I'm trying not to lurk"
is just
kind of......weird?
I think it's out of place and scummy. He said he couldn't be in here at the beginning before the game started, right? No real reason to have suspicion on the lurkers yet, just note that they're lurking. The difference here, is that he's ...... like hard to articulate. He is lurking, and pops in to post a comment at such a WEIRD time like, immediately when the conversation mentions lurkers compared to otherwise contributing thoughts. I think Super is the best choice atm, but I'm by no means positive.
Just hit this post by Superfluous that set off real scumbells for me:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 12:24 Superfluous wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:59 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 10:49 StiMaDDict wrote:
I may be biased but I put Chromatically as the most capable scumhunter. In last game, he pretty much had the whole scum team Day1. It goes without saying that I do not Chromatically's alignment as of right now.
@Chromatically Your current scum reads? Superfluous looks really bad, he's been apologetic in his posts (not trying to rock the boat) and has only said what others have already said. It looks like he's trying hard to find anything to post about because he wants to look active. On July 13 2013 10:05 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 09:55 Umasi wrote:
Superfluous, do you have any current scum reads? At the moment no, as I said I was gone for a couple hours then came back and just skimmed through the thread . I mean to go through it again in more detail once I'm finished defending myself or w/e. Two things are on my mind though. One is that I think you are town (not just to suck up to you b/c you are pressuring me). Reasons being that in my personal experience those who are most aggressive are generally town, and also that this is a semi-noob game so I'm unsure if a mafia would have the confidence to go out and control the game/ put pressure on early on. Another thing is that I dont think I've seen much (if anything) from Cloud 9. He may be in same situation as me and I'll give him Benefit of the doubt though. It's extremely odd that he specifically points out Cloud-9 as opposed to any of the other players who haven't posted. This shows pretty clearly that he's not trying at all to find scum, he doesn't even know who hasn't posted. Also looking at Kirby. Lurkers be lurking. As I said I just skimmed over after returning. Cloud 9 was a name I didn't see when comparing the posts I saw to the player list, so I pointed it out. And I have been trying to get something to talk about other than what seem to be mini discussions between certain people. I also don't get why you're attacking me saying "I'm not trying to find scum". In my own post I said that I was going to look it over again and get reads, obviously meaning that I hadn't looked that hard for scum yet. Right now my biggest scum read is HZflank, because I still think Umasi is doing mostly pro town moves yet hz says its scummy. If it pushes to me actually being lynched I think that I'd still feel this way. He also had an early post or two that distracted somewhat from the discussion, which I'm always suspicious of. I'll give nightcat benefit of the doubt. It's a bit weird he showed up once his name came up but eh. I realize thats not really a great reason but seems like we're in semi-similar situations. Xzavier I'm more suspicious of, he didnt have many posts then in his first one he shows up saying he'll consider lynching me. It's really scummy play to lurk then show up ready to lynch imo.
I completely disagree with many significant points on this post (thinking Xzavier's post is scummy, finding one lurker scummier than the other, deciding Umasi is town because he's tunneling someone). It almost seems like he's OMGUS'ing hz because of the pressure on Umasi? Seems like a viable scumbuddy tactic: Call out in the QT for someone to defend you so you don't have to get into a shitfight yourself.
@Chrom:
Can you explain what this post means?
On July 13 2013 13:23 Chromatically wrote:
If everyone who just randomly popped out to soft call me sum could actually give their opinions on the situation, that'd be great.
I also have a nitpick with this post:
On July 13 2013 14:04 Chromatically wrote:
Yes, we'll technically never be able to totally disprove the possibility that Stim is town. It's just far less likely. Look at what Stim has done.
Lie about his anger
Town motivation: none
Scum motivation: screwed up the explanation because the anger was faked in the first place
Martyr
Town motivation: none, far more likely that he just explains
Scum motivation: knows he can't explain, so he acts emotional to get people to switch
I feel like the anger was definitely real, and StiM was trying play play Mr. Cool Cat by claiming that he was really in control the whole time, and just pretended to be angry. Still not clear what that motivation could have been, but the above 2x2 leaves out some key points and I feel you're making a bit more assumptions that you usually do...
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On July 13 2013 15:43 Rainbows wrote:
Sponge, I started the whole Stim thing. Chrom just questioned both of us then pooped all over him with it :p
Chrom has made a couple missteps that I would consider 'uncharacteristic'. At the very least, they are poor play I did not expect from him.
1. His enthusiasm to lynch StiM after the blow-up (surely we can all see that it was more likely immature and pissy play from StiM and alignment-independent) contained logical leaks and overblows the importance of whether StiM lied about being mad or not.
2. Saying Superfluous was trying to not 'make waves' when he was the lone voice speaking up for an unpopular policy (Day 1 No Lynch)
More importantly, when viewed as a whole, the bolded section above is a big stop sign on my vote to lynch StiM: Why would scum not alert StiM that everyone and their mother knew the jokepost was a joke and let him carry on in this manner? He'd have to be willfully disobeying his team, or (more likely) flying solo. If someone can give me a satisfactory answer to that, I'd feel much better about a StiM lynch.
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On July 13 2013 15:50 Umasi wrote:
Sponge, why do you think I was white knighting you?
It wasn't so much be saying you were town as it was me saying "you guys are stupid for having these reasons that you have."
It was me throwing out ornery commentary.
In response to your question though~
What makes you think the scum team acts as like, a hivemind? We're all awful, so it's not like he would be given advice by gods. Moreover, it's entirely possible his coach just wasn't around, or his other scum team members weren't around. Just my thoughts, I think that debating what's happening in the scum qt is not relevant.
Well, it's relevant, but not like.......
What do we get out of it? How do we lynch someone if we always say "well they shouldn't be scummy because there's other scum to tell them how to not be scummy."
that's what confuses me, I guess.
In general, you're totally right. But this one seems like it's such a gimme. Let's just say if StiM does flip red, I'm going to pushing to lynch people who lurked (afk'd) the early game. Because if I were on the scum team and one of my teammates started posting what StiM did, I'd have been in perma all caps mode in that Scum QT within the first 30 seconds of his post when he started taking the jokepost seriously.
I hate that this is going to be construed as the 'too scummy to be scum' argument, because it's not. It's a very specific thought experiment involving motivated players at a public deadline (Gamestart).
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Mods, can we please get filter links on the Page 1 roster? Unless the intent is to make scumhunting harder, scummy mods...
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On July 13 2013 16:02 Umasi wrote:
Alright, here, hurricane. Who do you think is worth voting at this time?
From your post, I got the gist that it'd be Superfluous or me. Is that correct?
I'm still a bit mad at StiM for his post implying that it was our job to keep him entertained. I'm going to give myself some time to cool off on that, because I don't appreciate people quitting on my team (if he is in fact town). This is a time investment for everybody, and it's damn selfish of him to pack up his ball and go home after really light pressure.
Townville:
Kirby pressured me appropriately after my opener. I like that. He also seems to have the same attitude as me regarding the quick StiMwagon:
On July 13 2013 13:31 jrkirby wrote:
2 votes land on a guy is quick succession, I'd be stupid if I weren't at least a BIT suspicious. As far as I can tell, stim is just acting like a bit of an idiot, is flustered, and frustrated. Doesn't seem like scumtell to me. You're free to have your vote, and I don't have a solid scumread on either of you, but I will be looking a bit more closely at your filters.
hz is aggressively posting reads and seems to emulate my thoughts on the early Superfluous post:
On July 13 2013 09:42 hzflank wrote:I think Jrkirby's and Sponge's opening posts had the same motivation: to get discussion moving. Both have done this and we have multiple discussions taking place. Since then, Sponge did a little coaching. Sponge has come under pressure from multiple people (for his opening post), and has dealt with it while being reasonably open. The only time that he has not been open is by refusing to post the other version of his opening post. Sponge did a little coaching again as he tried to stop Umasi from defending him. So far my read on Sponge has moved very slightly towards town. Since his opening, Jrkirby has attacked Sponge for his opening post, and done nothing else. That's fine because it is early and Jrkirby is pushing to get a reaction from someone. This is not scummy to me, null read. Umasi has defended Hurricane, which cannot be viewed as scummy at this point. Umasi has attacked Superfluous. I would say that this attack could be scummy as it is based on nothing, but it could just be to get Super to post more (he only has one post). Umasi then repeats that he thinks Super's post is scummy and votes for him. The problem I have with this is that Umasi claims Super's only post was scummy, when I do not think that it was. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:33 Superfluous wrote:
While I agree that we should lynch someone if they are super scummy, I'd like to point out that voting for no lynch is an option. Assuming I'm interpreting the rules/setup right, mafia only has 1 kp so there's no immediate motive for lynching such as reducing kp. It may be a stronger play to not lynch and hope that cop(if there is one) gets a turn to check before lynch. It is a risk though because I believe we are not guaranteed to have a cop. Just an idea I wanted to throw out and get your guys' thoughts on. If Umasi was looking for a reaction then I do not understand why he posted: Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:59 Umasi wrote:
Where the hell are you. You popped in, gave a single post, that I think is scummy as crap, still haven't show back up. Pretty confusing, because the post you gave was irrelevant. How was Super's post scummy as crap? I do not think that Umasi is looking for scum, and if he is not just fishing for Super to respond then I think that Umasi is just looking for a neutral place to put his early vote. Unlike Jrkirby's, Umasi's vote is not a troll vote. I have a slight scum read on Umasi.
Xzavier posted some decent thoughts (although he really didn't go out on any limbs):
On July 13 2013 11:19 Xzavier wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:33 Superfluous wrote:
While I agree that we should lynch someone if they are super scummy, I'd like to point out that voting for no lynch is an option. Assuming I'm interpreting the rules/setup right, mafia only has 1 kp so there's no immediate motive for lynching such as reducing kp. It may be a stronger play to not lynch and hope that cop(if there is one) gets a turn to check before lynch. It is a risk though because I believe we are not guaranteed to have a cop. Just an idea I wanted to throw out and get your guys' thoughts on. i know usami has touched on this, but i see voting for No-lynch is like sacrificing a townie or playing russian roullet for zero prize money. its just basically saying "i want to start this game a townie down" it seems silly to me, if somebody comes and gives me an ungodly reason for no-lynching ill hear it. but i see it as silly. Also from playing with usami before, hes a super fucking hyper aggressive person who needs like a single post to tunnel somebody for a full day, that can be bad. we need to keep our eyes open and looking at multiple people. As i learned my first game, a tunnel vision day1 can lead to a mislynch, or in this gametype, a no-lynch. Its far better to lynch scum, and thats what we should try to do. Even day1 we lynch either a lurker or our top scumread, if nobody has any strong scumreads, lynching the scummiest lurker is the best townplay day1. (it yields the highest chance of killing scum while creating the best pro-town enviroment) with that im also shocked of how active stim-addict is being. its nice to see a usual lurker picking it up leaving less for the scum to hide behind :D again, even Superfluous is at the top of my scumdar, he isnt high enough to deserve a vote yet. I want to lynch a lurker or superfluous depending on how he reacts to our posts and the events of the day. if the rest of it goes uneventful/no major scumslips i want to fuck up a lurker as i believe that to be the best pro-town action.
Rainbows is active and is claiming credit for the StiM wagon. If StiM is town, as I suspect, I don't think scum would be claiming lead on an eventual green flip:
On July 13 2013 15:43 Rainbows wrote:
Sponge, I started the whole Stim thing. Chrom just questioned both of us then pooped all over him with it :p
Planet Neutral:
I've found confusing material on Chrom that some may deem scummy (misrepresenting facts, leaping to conclusions, overblowing alignment-neutral mistakes). However, he also did his usual early game Poke'n'Prod, getting people to clarify their random claims that might otherwise have gone unchecked (very town).
Umasi is incredibly active, and hunting. The logic leaps, confirmation bias, and clumsy attacks aren't really helping the town, however (other than to just provide really obvious pressure). If there was a shade between Green and Black, I'd use it because I think the three options for Umasi are 'Bad Town' 'Good Scum' and 'Good Town That I Just Have Trouble Reading For Whatever Reason'.
Scum Central:
Superfluous has a lot of ground to make up. I don't like people attacking him for his bad policy, but at the end of the day, that's not the only thing going against him. I really disagree with his reads, and that has to account for something:
On July 13 2013 12:24 Superfluous wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:59 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 10:49 StiMaDDict wrote:
I may be biased but I put Chromatically as the most capable scumhunter. In last game, he pretty much had the whole scum team Day1. It goes without saying that I do not Chromatically's alignment as of right now.
@Chromatically Your current scum reads? Superfluous looks really bad, he's been apologetic in his posts (not trying to rock the boat) and has only said what others have already said. It looks like he's trying hard to find anything to post about because he wants to look active. On July 13 2013 10:05 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 09:55 Umasi wrote:
Superfluous, do you have any current scum reads? At the moment no, as I said I was gone for a couple hours then came back and just skimmed through the thread . I mean to go through it again in more detail once I'm finished defending myself or w/e. Two things are on my mind though. One is that I think you are town (not just to suck up to you b/c you are pressuring me). Reasons being that in my personal experience those who are most aggressive are generally town, and also that this is a semi-noob game so I'm unsure if a mafia would have the confidence to go out and control the game/ put pressure on early on. Another thing is that I dont think I've seen much (if anything) from Cloud 9. He may be in same situation as me and I'll give him Benefit of the doubt though. It's extremely odd that he specifically points out Cloud-9 as opposed to any of the other players who haven't posted. This shows pretty clearly that he's not trying at all to find scum, he doesn't even know who hasn't posted. Also looking at Kirby. Lurkers be lurking. As I said I just skimmed over after returning. Cloud 9 was a name I didn't see when comparing the posts I saw to the player list, so I pointed it out. And I have been trying to get something to talk about other than what seem to be mini discussions between certain people. I also don't get why you're attacking me saying "I'm not trying to find scum". In my own post I said that I was going to look it over again and get reads, obviously meaning that I hadn't looked that hard for scum yet. Right now my biggest scum read is HZflank, because I still think Umasi is doing mostly pro town moves yet hz says its scummy. If it pushes to me actually being lynched I think that I'd still feel this way. He also had an early post or two that distracted somewhat from the discussion, which I'm always suspicious of. I'll give nightcat benefit of the doubt. It's a bit weird he showed up once his name came up but eh. I realize thats not really a great reason but seems like we're in semi-similar situations. Xzavier I'm more suspicious of, he didnt have many posts then in his first one he shows up saying he'll consider lynching me. It's really scummy play to lurk then show up ready to lynch imo.
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On July 13 2013 12:49 Chromatically wrote:This Stim thing doesn't make sense at all. Look at the chain of events: 1) Rainbow pressures Stim 2) Stim posts an angry response 3) Stim claims that his anger was due to formatting 4) Stim claims that he wasn't actually angry, and that he acted like it to get a reaction. 3 and 4 are incompatible. Stim is claiming that he was angry from the formatting, and then lied about his reasoning for doing it later. This doesn't make sense from a town perspective. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 11:55 StiMaDDict wrote:
I did respond quite aggressively and in an angry manner, even though I was not really angry at all. There were 2 purposes: 1) To see if Rainbow would 'flinch' 2) To establish myself to others as capable of defending myself. Conclusion: He didn't flinch and I did clear my name somewhat. I could have counter pressured to get some sort of read from Rainbow, however I didn't, because it IS early in the game and without proving myself as an active town, it would have a less of impact and leave a bad impression of me.
Town wouldn't say "There were 2 purposes" for their anger if they had just made up those purposes now. Town most certainly wouldn't say "I wasn't actually angry" if they were, like Stim is claiming he was now. ##Vote: StimI'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts.
I could see a townie claiming that his anger was fabricated due to pride. It's embarrassing to admit you got mad for silly reasons to a group of strangers. Obviously that's not in the best interest of the game, but for some, ego will always come first.
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On July 13 2013 16:02 Umasi wrote:
Alright, here, hurricane. Who do you think is worth voting at this time?
From your post, I got the gist that it'd be Superfluous or me. Is that correct?
More like Superfluous, Lurkers, Gulf of Mexico, Mariana's Trench, then you. I'd be a fool to vote for one of the few reliably active players that isn't overtly anti-town over a Lurker at this point (it's always in the back of my mind that literally everyone who has posted is town, and there are 3 lurking scum just laughing and drinking champaign in their QT.)
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On July 13 2013 08:19 Koshi wrote:
@Hurricane Sponge
Koshi: I am still learning on how to play the game properly. I am extremely bad at scumhunting. I get very easily annoyed by people saying that I am scum (I am working on this). I love fluff posts. I hate illogical posts but it seems that illogical does not mean you are scum, however, I am not planning on ever making an illogical post and when I do please call me on it.
As you can see, I got a lot of bad qualities that make me look scum all the time. However, I always prove that I am town by trying and hopefully this game I can prove it by actually nailing some scumreads.
@Koshi
Prove you're town by trying. Trying = posting.
What are your gut reactions to the thread so far? Give me your top 2 scum reads and top 2 town reads.
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On July 13 2013 16:40 Umasi wrote:
k, at this point, I can't really think of anything to talk about from your post, Sponge. I think Chrom is on the slightly townier side, xzav is more planet neutral, and kirby is not super towny, just by gut reads.
At this point I'm still happy with a StiM lynch though, but Superfluous is contesting it pretty hard. and depending on what nightcat says, I'll rethink him, but he's still ehhhhh.
I may just be judging people a little too quickly, but that's because I sit at my computer pretty much constantly being a lazy asshole with the thread open, refreshing every five minutes.
I'd be very grateful if you could provide the evidence that has you leaning town on Chrom for me. I want him to be town too because I think he is an extremely strong player, but that only gives me more pause when examining the uncharacteristic analysis mistakes he's made thus far.
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On July 13 2013 16:43 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 16:34 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 12:49 Chromatically wrote:This Stim thing doesn't make sense at all. Look at the chain of events: 1) Rainbow pressures Stim 2) Stim posts an angry response 3) Stim claims that his anger was due to formatting 4) Stim claims that he wasn't actually angry, and that he acted like it to get a reaction. 3 and 4 are incompatible. Stim is claiming that he was angry from the formatting, and then lied about his reasoning for doing it later. This doesn't make sense from a town perspective. On July 13 2013 11:55 StiMaDDict wrote:
I did respond quite aggressively and in an angry manner, even though I was not really angry at all. There were 2 purposes: 1) To see if Rainbow would 'flinch' 2) To establish myself to others as capable of defending myself. Conclusion: He didn't flinch and I did clear my name somewhat. I could have counter pressured to get some sort of read from Rainbow, however I didn't, because it IS early in the game and without proving myself as an active town, it would have a less of impact and leave a bad impression of me.
Town wouldn't say "There were 2 purposes" for their anger if they had just made up those purposes now. Town most certainly wouldn't say "I wasn't actually angry" if they were, like Stim is claiming he was now. ##Vote: StimI'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts. I could see a townie claiming that his anger was fabricated due to pride. It's embarrassing to admit you got mad for silly reasons to a group of strangers. Obviously that's not in the best interest of the game, but for some, ego will always come first. Actually, at fear of falling prey to meta~~~ He did do a similar thing in the mafia game I played with him, where I called out his post as scummy as he self voted. He basically returned to the thread to save face, (since he flipped town) so that wouldn't be out of line for him. In fact, it fits with what I know. -I am leery of meta though because the entire obs qt of the last game was like "meta bad!"
The only thing meta can tell us right now is that StiM has self-voted as town in the past. He is self-voting now. (The 'Meta Is Bad' counter-argument is that we have no way of knowing if scum StiM would self-vote.)
Based on his personality profile, we can assume that he is a player that tilts. I haven't seen any posts claiming that their read on the StiM self-vote is a ploy or trick to get pressure off him. There seems to be a pretty clear town consensus that he's just being petty (and in my opinion, that is alignment-neutral).
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On July 13 2013 16:46 Umasi wrote:
Because he was the first one to vote for StiM and if StiM flipped town, that would be extraordinarily suspicious.
1. Rainbows claimed credit for the StiM wagon.
2. Scum and Townie alike lead bandwagons all the time.
This is not good logic to me. And saying the 'general feel' of someone's posts is townie doesn't really help me here.
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On July 13 2013 16:46 Umasi wrote:
Because he was the first one to vote for StiM and if StiM flipped town, that would be extraordinarily suspicious.
I'll put it another way. If StiM flipped green, would you push for a Chrom lynch?
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On July 13 2013 17:01 Umasi wrote:
why is me thinking he's slightly towny a big deal though?
I wouldn't say it's a big deal. I just wanted to see what evidence you had gathered to make your read, because it's useful for the town if you can help us identify Chrom as town.
@Chrom:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 19:17 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +@Chrom: Can you explain what this post means? On July 13 2013 13:23 Chromatically wrote:
If everyone who just randomly popped out to soft call me sum could actually give their opinions on the situation, that'd be great. I also have a nitpick with this post: On July 13 2013 14:04 Chromatically wrote:
Yes, we'll technically never be able to totally disprove the possibility that Stim is town. It's just far less likely. Look at what Stim has done.
Lie about his anger
Town motivation: none
Scum motivation: screwed up the explanation because the anger was faked in the first place
Martyr
Town motivation: none, far more likely that he just explains
Scum motivation: knows he can't explain, so he acts emotional to get people to switch I feel like the anger was definitely real, and StiM was trying play play Mr. Cool Cat by claiming that he was really in control the whole time, and just pretended to be angry. Still not clear what that motivation could have been, but the above 2x2 leaves out some key points and I feel you're making a bit more assumptions that you usually do... Several people suddenly posted to tell Stim that I could be scum, and then didn't actually give an opinion on Stim. It was really wierd. You've brought up this same idea a few times about Stim trying to "act cool", but I don't see any particular reason to believe it. Why do you? As I've said before, there will always be a possibility of a town explanation, it's just less likely. If Stim is town, he'll return with a clear explanation. If you want to bring up meta, town should have lynched Stim in XLII. He could have easily been scum, and I said as much in the obs. A more convincing point is that Stim never reacted this way to pressure in XLIII, even though several votes were thrown on him over the course (if I remember). Hypothetical: If Stim doesn't return, what will you do?
If Stim hadn't have returned, I'd probably drop the issue entirely and focus my efforts elsewhere, anticipating a /replacement or mod action.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 19:28 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 16:29 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 16:02 Umasi wrote:
Alright, here, hurricane. Who do you think is worth voting at this time?
From your post, I got the gist that it'd be Superfluous or me. Is that correct? I'm still a bit mad at StiM for his post implying that it was our job to keep him entertained. I'm going to give myself some time to cool off on that, because I don't appreciate people quitting on my team (if he is in fact town). This is a time investment for everybody, and it's damn selfish of him to pack up his ball and go home after really light pressure. Townville: Kirby pressured me appropriately after my opener. I like that. He also seems to have the same attitude as me regarding the quick StiMwagon: On July 13 2013 13:31 jrkirby wrote:
2 votes land on a guy is quick succession, I'd be stupid if I weren't at least a BIT suspicious. As far as I can tell, stim is just acting like a bit of an idiot, is flustered, and frustrated. Doesn't seem like scumtell to me. You're free to have your vote, and I don't have a solid scumread on either of you, but I will be looking a bit more closely at your filters. hz is aggressively posting reads and seems to emulate my thoughts on the early Superfluous post: On July 13 2013 09:42 hzflank wrote:I think Jrkirby's and Sponge's opening posts had the same motivation: to get discussion moving. Both have done this and we have multiple discussions taking place. Since then, Sponge did a little coaching. Sponge has come under pressure from multiple people (for his opening post), and has dealt with it while being reasonably open. The only time that he has not been open is by refusing to post the other version of his opening post. Sponge did a little coaching again as he tried to stop Umasi from defending him. So far my read on Sponge has moved very slightly towards town. Since his opening, Jrkirby has attacked Sponge for his opening post, and done nothing else. That's fine because it is early and Jrkirby is pushing to get a reaction from someone. This is not scummy to me, null read. Umasi has defended Hurricane, which cannot be viewed as scummy at this point. Umasi has attacked Superfluous. I would say that this attack could be scummy as it is based on nothing, but it could just be to get Super to post more (he only has one post). Umasi then repeats that he thinks Super's post is scummy and votes for him. The problem I have with this is that Umasi claims Super's only post was scummy, when I do not think that it was. On July 13 2013 08:33 Superfluous wrote:
While I agree that we should lynch someone if they are super scummy, I'd like to point out that voting for no lynch is an option. Assuming I'm interpreting the rules/setup right, mafia only has 1 kp so there's no immediate motive for lynching such as reducing kp. It may be a stronger play to not lynch and hope that cop(if there is one) gets a turn to check before lynch. It is a risk though because I believe we are not guaranteed to have a cop. Just an idea I wanted to throw out and get your guys' thoughts on. If Umasi was looking for a reaction then I do not understand why he posted: On July 13 2013 08:59 Umasi wrote:
Where the hell are you. You popped in, gave a single post, that I think is scummy as crap, still haven't show back up. Pretty confusing, because the post you gave was irrelevant. How was Super's post scummy as crap? I do not think that Umasi is looking for scum, and if he is not just fishing for Super to respond then I think that Umasi is just looking for a neutral place to put his early vote. Unlike Jrkirby's, Umasi's vote is not a troll vote. I have a slight scum read on Umasi. Xzavier posted some decent thoughts (although he really didn't go out on any limbs): On July 13 2013 11:19 Xzavier wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Superfluous wrote:
While I agree that we should lynch someone if they are super scummy, I'd like to point out that voting for no lynch is an option. Assuming I'm interpreting the rules/setup right, mafia only has 1 kp so there's no immediate motive for lynching such as reducing kp. It may be a stronger play to not lynch and hope that cop(if there is one) gets a turn to check before lynch. It is a risk though because I believe we are not guaranteed to have a cop. Just an idea I wanted to throw out and get your guys' thoughts on. i know usami has touched on this, but i see voting for No-lynch is like sacrificing a townie or playing russian roullet for zero prize money. its just basically saying "i want to start this game a townie down" it seems silly to me, if somebody comes and gives me an ungodly reason for no-lynching ill hear it. but i see it as silly. Also from playing with usami before, hes a super fucking hyper aggressive person who needs like a single post to tunnel somebody for a full day, that can be bad. we need to keep our eyes open and looking at multiple people. As i learned my first game, a tunnel vision day1 can lead to a mislynch, or in this gametype, a no-lynch. Its far better to lynch scum, and thats what we should try to do. Even day1 we lynch either a lurker or our top scumread, if nobody has any strong scumreads, lynching the scummiest lurker is the best townplay day1. (it yields the highest chance of killing scum while creating the best pro-town enviroment) with that im also shocked of how active stim-addict is being. its nice to see a usual lurker picking it up leaving less for the scum to hide behind :D again, even Superfluous is at the top of my scumdar, he isnt high enough to deserve a vote yet. I want to lynch a lurker or superfluous depending on how he reacts to our posts and the events of the day. if the rest of it goes uneventful/no major scumslips i want to fuck up a lurker as i believe that to be the best pro-town action. Rainbows is active and is claiming credit for the StiM wagon. If StiM is town, as I suspect, I don't think scum would be claiming lead on an eventual green flip: On July 13 2013 15:43 Rainbows wrote:
Sponge, I started the whole Stim thing. Chrom just questioned both of us then pooped all over him with it :p Planet Neutral:I've found confusing material on Chrom that some may deem scummy (misrepresenting facts, leaping to conclusions, overblowing alignment-neutral mistakes). However, he also did his usual early game Poke'n'Prod, getting people to clarify their random claims that might otherwise have gone unchecked (very town). Umasi is incredibly active, and hunting. The logic leaps, confirmation bias, and clumsy attacks aren't really helping the town, however (other than to just provide really obvious pressure). If there was a shade between Green and Black, I'd use it because I think the three options for Umasi are 'Bad Town' 'Good Scum' and 'Good Town That I Just Have Trouble Reading For Whatever Reason'. Scum Central:Superfluous has a lot of ground to make up. I don't like people attacking him for his bad policy, but at the end of the day, that's not the only thing going against him. I really disagree with his reads, and that has to account for something: On July 13 2013 12:24 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 10:59 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 10:49 StiMaDDict wrote:
I may be biased but I put Chromatically as the most capable scumhunter. In last game, he pretty much had the whole scum team Day1. It goes without saying that I do not Chromatically's alignment as of right now.
@Chromatically Your current scum reads? Superfluous looks really bad, he's been apologetic in his posts (not trying to rock the boat) and has only said what others have already said. It looks like he's trying hard to find anything to post about because he wants to look active. On July 13 2013 10:05 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 09:55 Umasi wrote:
Superfluous, do you have any current scum reads? At the moment no, as I said I was gone for a couple hours then came back and just skimmed through the thread . I mean to go through it again in more detail once I'm finished defending myself or w/e. Two things are on my mind though. One is that I think you are town (not just to suck up to you b/c you are pressuring me). Reasons being that in my personal experience those who are most aggressive are generally town, and also that this is a semi-noob game so I'm unsure if a mafia would have the confidence to go out and control the game/ put pressure on early on. Another thing is that I dont think I've seen much (if anything) from Cloud 9. He may be in same situation as me and I'll give him Benefit of the doubt though. It's extremely odd that he specifically points out Cloud-9 as opposed to any of the other players who haven't posted. This shows pretty clearly that he's not trying at all to find scum, he doesn't even know who hasn't posted. Also looking at Kirby. Lurkers be lurking. As I said I just skimmed over after returning. Cloud 9 was a name I didn't see when comparing the posts I saw to the player list, so I pointed it out. And I have been trying to get something to talk about other than what seem to be mini discussions between certain people. I also don't get why you're attacking me saying "I'm not trying to find scum". In my own post I said that I was going to look it over again and get reads, obviously meaning that I hadn't looked that hard for scum yet. Right now my biggest scum read is HZflank, because I still think Umasi is doing mostly pro town moves yet hz says its scummy. If it pushes to me actually being lynched I think that I'd still feel this way. He also had an early post or two that distracted somewhat from the discussion, which I'm always suspicious of. I'll give nightcat benefit of the doubt. It's a bit weird he showed up once his name came up but eh. I realize thats not really a great reason but seems like we're in semi-similar situations. Xzavier I'm more suspicious of, he didnt have many posts then in his first one he shows up saying he'll consider lynching me. It's really scummy play to lurk then show up ready to lynch imo. These are some wierd-ass wierd reads (formatted in a list, might I add...). You give town reads to a large number of people based on almost nothing? You say that me and Umasi are actively scumhunting, and then say we're null? All followed by a sheep on Super while waiting to commit to Stim. It all feels really odd. Why is xzavier more townie then Umasi/me? Why did you post town reads in the first place?
I'm surprised you do not agree with my reads. I shall re-evaluate them. You are Neutral to me for the reasons I mentioned: while you and Umasi are scumhunting (+), I believe you're doing it in an anti-town manner (-). That is: making logical leaps, confirmation bias, poor analysis. Scum can scumhunt too, and that's exactly how I imagine they'd do it. I also don't feel like I'm sheeping Superfluous. I raised some independent analysis regarding him in my earlier post (centering on the fact that our reads are very different, signifying a disconnect from my own POV that is significant enough to be Town-Scum). Are there any other glaring mistakes in particular you'd like to hear my thoughts on?
On July 13 2013 19:37 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 15:53 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 15:43 Rainbows wrote:
Sponge, I started the whole Stim thing. Chrom just questioned both of us then pooped all over him with it :p Chrom has made a couple missteps that I would consider 'uncharacteristic'. At the very least, they are poor play I did not expect from him. 1. His enthusiasm to lynch StiM after the blow-up (surely we can all see that it was more likely immature and pissy play from StiM and alignment-independent) contained logical leaks and overblows the importance of whether StiM lied about being mad or not. 2. Saying Superfluous was trying to not 'make waves' when he was the lone voice speaking up for an unpopular policy (Day 1 No Lynch) More importantly, when viewed as a whole, the bolded section above is a big stop sign on my vote to lynch StiM: Why would scum not alert StiM that everyone and their mother knew the jokepost was a joke and let him carry on in this manner? He'd have to be willfully disobeying his team, or (more likely) flying solo. If someone can give me a satisfactory answer to that, I'd feel much better about a StiM lynch. 1) You seem confident that Stim's blowup was alignment independent, can you address my earlier posts about why it's more likely from scum? I think it's pretty hard to overblow the importance of someone lying about their motivation without being able to explain it. You disagree? 2) The apologetic tone is the entire reason why Super looks bad. He's trying not to draw attention to himself and not to incite anyone (scummy). The Nolynch thing is totally non alignment indicative, which you should know. Explain your scumread on Super more.
On July 13 2013 12:24 Superfluous wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:59 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 10:49 StiMaDDict wrote:
I may be biased but I put Chromatically as the most capable scumhunter. In last game, he pretty much had the whole scum team Day1. It goes without saying that I do not Chromatically's alignment as of right now.
@Chromatically Your current scum reads? Superfluous looks really bad, he's been apologetic in his posts (not trying to rock the boat) and has only said what others have already said. It looks like he's trying hard to find anything to post about because he wants to look active. On July 13 2013 10:05 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 09:55 Umasi wrote:
Superfluous, do you have any current scum reads? At the moment no, as I said I was gone for a couple hours then came back and just skimmed through the thread . I mean to go through it again in more detail once I'm finished defending myself or w/e. Two things are on my mind though. One is that I think you are town (not just to suck up to you b/c you are pressuring me). Reasons being that in my personal experience those who are most aggressive are generally town, and also that this is a semi-noob game so I'm unsure if a mafia would have the confidence to go out and control the game/ put pressure on early on. Another thing is that I dont think I've seen much (if anything) from Cloud 9. He may be in same situation as me and I'll give him Benefit of the doubt though. It's extremely odd that he specifically points out Cloud-9 as opposed to any of the other players who haven't posted. This shows pretty clearly that he's not trying at all to find scum, he doesn't even know who hasn't posted. Also looking at Kirby. Lurkers be lurking. As I said I just skimmed over after returning. Cloud 9 was a name I didn't see when comparing the posts I saw to the player list, so I pointed it out. And I have been trying to get something to talk about other than what seem to be mini discussions between certain people. I also don't get why you're attacking me saying "I'm not trying to find scum". In my own post I said that I was going to look it over again and get reads, obviously meaning that I hadn't looked that hard for scum yet. Right now my biggest scum read is HZflank, because I still think Umasi is doing mostly pro town moves yet hz says its scummy. If it pushes to me actually being lynched I think that I'd still feel this way. He also had an early post or two that distracted somewhat from the discussion, which I'm always suspicious of. I'll give nightcat benefit of the doubt. It's a bit weird he showed up once his name came up but eh. I realize thats not really a great reason but seems like we're in semi-similar situations. Xzavier I'm more suspicious of, he didnt have many posts then in his first one he shows up saying he'll consider lynching me. It's really scummy play to lurk then show up ready to lynch imo.
I really don't like that last part where he gives one lurker the FoS, but a second one a free pass in the same post. I don't like that his reads seem diametrically opposed to mine, which implies a significant difference in frame-of-reference. I don't like his case on HZ (which is a case in name only). I don't like that he's suspicious of townies who enter the thread willing to lynch.
On July 13 2013 21:48 Chromatically wrote:
Sponge, could you also elaborate on you Umasi read?
As I told Umasi late last night when we were the only two in the thread, I love his scumhunting, but I cringe at his methods. He's got a big problem with confirmation bias and attacking his target when he should just be poking, bringing the level of discourse down into the mud too soon. Like I said in the earlier post, I think he's Green-Black: Bad Town, Good Scum, or Good Town That I Just Can't Read. The early game aggression is much preferred to the alternative (lurking), but if he keeps some of these traits up into the late game, I'm worried for town.
Moving on:
On July 13 2013 21:54 Koshi wrote:I am from Belgium guys, This game started at 12PM and I was tired after a working week. I read the thread once now and my initial (this is without using filters, just reading all the posts) is that H.Sponge build enough town kred to not get lynched day 1 no matter what. I loved his opening post, and I loved his defense on that post. Even if he is scum, he has been very helpful to town, and every town should go and read that opening post. Scum reads are on Umasi and Chroma. Umasi because his entire early posts were just sucking up to H.Sponge, which is just not useful at all, H. Sponge clearly doesn't need to be defended like this. Another thing I dont like about Umasi is him trying to redirect the thread twice for a Superfluous train on a rather useless moment. Superfluous entered the thread with a bad post, but went afk after, which is not a clear scumread. Not enough the get a train going, and make the rest of the day useless. Chroma is currently tunneling so heavily on StiMaDDict. The guy is afk, treat him as an afk bad town till he comes back. It is a good thing to spark some conversation around StiMaDDict, but at this point I feel that Chroma is derailing more than necessarily. It's just tunneling into oblivion. I start filtering now: Reading Chroma his filter I get a serious scum vibe. Post like this: Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 11:39 Chromatically wrote:
Also just noticed that Sponge hasn't given a single opinion on anyone all game after saying that he wanted people to judge him on his scumhunting, interesting. This is just being a jack-ass, at least it would be if you say things like this in real life. In mafia it is trying to put suspicion onto somebody without saying anything. I haven't crosschecked this message with the referring Sponge message but it feels dirty. What was your intention while typing this down Chromo? @ Chromo, Do you agree that this is a very suspicious post? And explain to me why it is "interesting" that Sponge likes to have interaction on his scumreads while playing this game? Reading Umasi his filter after the Chroma filter makes me want to lynch one of these 2 guys. Umasi and Chroma are either bromancing it up on the stimaddict lynch, or they are both scum. Here is Umasi his game till now: --> Defend Sponge while pushing lynch on Superfluous. --> Argue with Sponge about Chroma while pusing a lynch on StiMaDDict.
I hate Umasi and Chrom as lynch targets for Day 1. Town does not want to lynch guys this active and scumhunting this hard. Regardless of the fact that I think Superfluous is scummier at this point, I'd push for a Lurker lynch over one of either of Umasi or Chrom.
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Current Events:
I think StiM's case on Kirby is weak. Lots of fallacies in there. Everything quoted is interpreted single-mindedly as scum, and even the stuff that's pro town is justified as 'this is clearly scum trying to look town'.
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On July 14 2013 02:14 Rainbows wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 14 2013 01:51 StiMaDDict wrote:*sigh I fucked up. @Chromatically: You let me down and I let you down. I don't really know. I had a shitty day. I was pissed off at other things and I tried to let my stresses go away by posting on here. Then you blew it. Your nitpicking on whether I was angry or not and whether I was lying or not was really under my expectation. I think I gave you WAY TOO much credit from last game. Also you keep saying that I can't explain my so-called lie, but I did, god damn it. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 12:19 StiMaDDict wrote:Show nested quote +Note to all: + Show Spoiler +btw, I'm really trying to stay active. Sometimes I write really slow and I might be answering something that is couple of pages back. Sometimes I write one liners. My bad. + Show Spoiler +If you don't like it, well fuck you This. Pretty much repeating what Xzavier did in the last game, calling everyone retard, was from me being genuinely mad. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:34 StiMaDDict wrote:
My bad, guys.
Got pissed for no reason. Spoilers and quotes kept getting messed up. Overall attitude in my posts and impolite words in them were for the purpose I have stated. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 11:55 StiMaDDict wrote:
I did respond quite aggressively and in an angry manner, even though I was not really angry at all. There were 2 purposes: 1) To see if Rainbow would 'flinch' 2) To establish myself to others as capable of defending myself. Conclusion: He didn't flinch and I did clear my name somewhat. I could have counter pressured to get some sort of read from Rainbow, however I didn't, because it IS early in the game and without proving myself as an active town, it would have a less of impact and leave a bad impression of me. Do note: I'm not a good actor and I am not sure whether there was a clear boundary between me being mad because of quotes and spoilers and pretending to be mad at Rainbow. I was not bothered by Rainbow's pressure to put it simply and it is not in my best interest to lie about this. On July 13 2013 12:24 StiMaDDict wrote:
My previous post looks confusing.
1) I was mad at messing up posts but not at Rainbow
2) My anger reflected on my posts
3) Later when I realized that my posts were angry sounding I gave them purposes and maintain similar style.
I hope this explains it better. Not sure if this is a relevant topic though. First one wasn't clear enough so I wrote the second. I had a shitty day, alright, so I wrote some cuss words on the Internet. It wasn't something that I was proud of but it happened. So I tried to cover it up as if it was intentional with purposes and purposes they did accomplished. If you want to argue about when I came up with the idea, well, why don't dissect my brain and see. Gosh, you pissed me off. @jkirby: What you doing? + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 07:41 jrkirby wrote:Ok. I've been studying this long and hard, and I think I have enough evidence to make a clear case. hzflank is scumShow nested quote +On July 09 2013 04:04 hzflank wrote:On July 09 2013 03:22 WaveofShadow wrote:On July 09 2013 03:20 hzflank wrote:On July 09 2013 02:13 Stutters695 wrote:Obligatory USE YOUR COACHESWe're great guys and here to help With WoS as the scum coach, I do not think that town will need your assistance. Uh, ouch? Need I remind you that you won a game with Ace as the scum coach too? I meant it as a compliment. Sometimes the greatest players are the worst coaches because you just cannot teach pure brilliance. Clearly, hzflank is lying about this compliment. Liars are always scum. And look who he's talking to: the scum coach. Obviously he's in league with them. He goes on, still talking to the scum: Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 04:22 hzflank wrote:On July 09 2013 04:09 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
If you vote for an hzflank lynch based on pregame meta, I will fall instantly in love with you. Then scum should night kill the first person to vote for me, because as their lover you will also die. This is an obvious admission that he wants town to die. Anyone who wants town to die is scum, end of story. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 04:19 hzflank wrote:On July 13 2013 04:09 Chromatically wrote:
I won't be here for two hours after start. Then who will call my first post scummy? I will. Right here, right now. And for his first post: Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 07:11 hzflank wrote:
So we are using a majority vote system. As we all know there is much more chance of a No Lynch with this system than with plurality voting.
I think it is in our best interest to try to lynch someone every day. This may seem a bit odd at first, because a mis-lynch is obviously better for scum than for town. However, the only way that town will win is by lynching scum, and we will never be sure if we are lynching town or scum unless the lynch actually goes through. If we narrowly fail to lynch then we end up spending the next day discussing it and do not move forward as much.
Also, scum already know who they are. When someone is lynched the alignment information from their flip benefits town, but not scum.
Therefore, I suggest we work together as much as possible to actually get lynches through, if they are in doubt. He's trying to get us to sheep together and follow a Bandwagon instead of looking for evidence and finding scum. Finally: Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 07:31 hzflank wrote:On July 13 2013 07:26 Koshi wrote:
Are there experienced players here? People that played a decent amount of games. Everyone here has played 3 or less games. On July 13 2013 07:24 Koshi wrote:
Hi all. I played 1 newbie game in the TL+ forums and I am atm also playing in the nuclear mafia game.
I am with Rainbows on the lynching of lurkers. The tl+ game got RUINED because nobody posted. So if you are town, I want you to make around 10 posts a day. Try to make posts that are aggressive and confront people with your thought. Don't be afraid to be wrong. If you are town, please consider doing this to help town and force scum to make posts.
I think it is a bit early to be thinking about policy lynches on lurkers. Policy lynching can stifle discussion and we need discussion today. Once we get 24-36 hours in then we can consider it. Also, sometimes RL just happens for a day or two. Also, I think that there will be enough activity here. There are several players who I know will post a lot and we (the active players) cannot all die really early. Trying to defend one of the scum who is planning to lurk. You can't ignore all this evidence guys. hzflank is scum. ##Vote: hzflank He makes a pressure vote on hzflank and he never followed up on it at all. Yes, it did create a discussion between Rainbow and I, but not much from hzflank. He never provided his motive, explanation, or response after he made that one post. We know he was around when Rainbow and I were duking it out. Am I the only crazy one here and it's a normal thing to do with a pressure vote? If the purpose of the pressure vote is create a discussion why didn't he take a part? He takes it down couple of pages later basic saying that it didn't do much except getting some discussion. jkirby on Hurricane is basically this in my eyes: Your first post makes you look town. I think you post this AS A SCUM. If you are not, then show us your other post. Darn, it's too late now. I follow the thought process but it doesn't do much. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 09:35 jrkirby wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:30 StiMaDDict wrote:On July 13 2013 09:22 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 09:14 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 09:10 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:57 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:54 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:42 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? Correct. I would not have posted this particular post as scum. On July 13 2013 08:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:43 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:41 Umasi wrote:
[quote]
I certainly wouldn't post that if I were scum, it is nothing but a good thing for town. Why WOULD he want to post that as scum? to look town. Scum love to spew general pro town thingsvto get ez town cred.. This is correct. In general, these sorts of posts should result in a null read in a veteran game. But Early Day 1, when it's generally assumed nothing interesting is happening, seemed like a good time to get PSA's out of the way for a newbie crowd. The info is valuable, but it should not get me town cred. It's more important to me that there's a town consensus on the actual content of the post, not my alignment. (Plenty of time for that later.) You obviously think that your post was pro town, right? That's why you shouldn't have posted it as scum. But then you say that you shouldn't get town cred from it, indicating that you don't think it's pro town. ? Pro town in a newbie game, yes. Probably wouldn't have posted it in a Veteran game unless I really felt the Day 1 conversation stagnating early. I think all my posts are pro-town. Otherwise, why would I post them? (That should apply to everyone but those with a severe inferiority complex.) That doesn't answer the point. The point is that your logic is inconsistant. You say that you wouldn't have posted this as scum. Why? You think that the post is valuable enough to town that scum wouldn't want to post it. You think that only a townie would post it. However, you say that you shouldn't get a town read for it, even though you think that only town would post it. I'm not in the business of telling people I'm town. I'm going to scumhunt and try to win this game, and a byproduct of that should be that people will view me as town. Put another way: I don't believe posting specifically with the goal of acquiring towncred is particularly helpful in anything but circumstances where I could be mislynched. I'm prioritizing getting the Town ducks in a row here in the early going so we can move on to the scumhunt, not establishing my Townie-ness. Interestingly, people (Chrom and jrkirby) have seemed more interested in analyzing why I posted rather than what I posted. Can I infer by this that we largely agree with what I have said? Pretty much what you said was: meta is bad, this is the meta that I might accidentally do. That's fine, neither particularly good nor bad imo. But you claimed that you would only post it on the condition that you were town. You admit to having a post that you would post on the condition that you're scum (which I think is foolish), but you won't show it to us, and that's just a tiny bit suspicious. Seriously man.. this is the best you can do? If he has scum post, big deal. For all we know THIS could be his scum post. Who knows. Is this your first game jrkirby? "For all we know, THIS could be his scum post." That's exactly what I was trying to get information on. Here was my reasoning: if this is his scum post, then he won't HAVE a real scum post. But it's been long enough that he could've written another one by now, so no point in pushing it anymore.No, this is my second game, kinda. This starts jkirby's trend of hedging. He drops the pressure as soon as he feels as it has been too long and Sponge could've written a copy. He doesn't say Sponge is a town or scum because of this, which I find disturbing. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 09:46 jrkirby wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:41 Umasi wrote:On July 13 2013 09:35 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 09:30 StiMaDDict wrote:On July 13 2013 09:22 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 09:14 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 09:10 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:57 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:54 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:42 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
[quote]
Correct. I would not have posted this particular post as scum. On July 13 2013 08:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
[quote]
This is correct. In general, these sorts of posts should result in a null read in a veteran game. But Early Day 1, when it's generally assumed nothing interesting is happening, seemed like a good time to get PSA's out of the way for a newbie crowd.
The info is valuable, but it should not get me town cred. It's more important to me that there's a town consensus on the actual content of the post, not my alignment. (Plenty of time for that later.) You obviously think that your post was pro town, right? That's why you shouldn't have posted it as scum. But then you say that you shouldn't get town cred from it, indicating that you don't think it's pro town. ? Pro town in a newbie game, yes. Probably wouldn't have posted it in a Veteran game unless I really felt the Day 1 conversation stagnating early. I think all my posts are pro-town. Otherwise, why would I post them? (That should apply to everyone but those with a severe inferiority complex.) That doesn't answer the point. The point is that your logic is inconsistant. You say that you wouldn't have posted this as scum. Why? You think that the post is valuable enough to town that scum wouldn't want to post it. You think that only a townie would post it. However, you say that you shouldn't get a town read for it, even though you think that only town would post it. I'm not in the business of telling people I'm town. I'm going to scumhunt and try to win this game, and a byproduct of that should be that people will view me as town. Put another way: I don't believe posting specifically with the goal of acquiring towncred is particularly helpful in anything but circumstances where I could be mislynched. I'm prioritizing getting the Town ducks in a row here in the early going so we can move on to the scumhunt, not establishing my Townie-ness. Interestingly, people (Chrom and jrkirby) have seemed more interested in analyzing why I posted rather than what I posted. Can I infer by this that we largely agree with what I have said? Pretty much what you said was: meta is bad, this is the meta that I might accidentally do. That's fine, neither particularly good nor bad imo. But you claimed that you would only post it on the condition that you were town. You admit to having a post that you would post on the condition that you're scum (which I think is foolish), but you won't show it to us, and that's just a tiny bit suspicious. Seriously man.. this is the best you can do? If he has scum post, big deal. For all we know THIS could be his scum post. Who knows. Is this your first game jrkirby? "For all we know, THIS could be his scum post." That's exactly what I was trying to get information on. Here was my reasoning: if this is his scum post, then he won't HAVE a real scum post. But it's been long enough that he could've written another one by now, so no point in pushing it anymore. No, this is my second game, kinda. Why is there no point in pushing it? There's no reason to not push it if you think it was scummy, and if you were pushing it for the sake of having something to do, just go do something else. Still, more people, what do you think of Superfluous post and then disappearance? Me - "It's been long enough that he could've written another one by now." If he had posted one immediately after I had asked it means something different than if he posts one an hour or two after I asked. Superfluous's post & lurk is bad, but give him a bit, he might show back up. Umasi feels the same way it seems. Another excuse and nothing to indicate how he feels about Sponge as a result. The bold part is another hedging. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 09:58 jrkirby wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:53 Superfluous wrote:
To address some things, especially umasi I guess. I apologize for not answering sooner, the other forums I have played on move much slower and there arent 2 and a half pages of posts after being gone for just 3-4 hours. I would be annoyed at your pushing but I think in general its a good town move as it forces information out of people. All I was saying is that, to me, we have a higher chance of lynching town than mafia. We may also end up outing a role prematurely by pushing for a day one lynch. The games that I've played/followed where mafia has 1 kp it's standard to not lynch day one. Here there is no guarantee of cop so it's different, that's why I was asking about others' opinions and not saying we 100% should do it. Sorry if you felt my post was irrelevant but no one else had even pointed it out as an option. I feel like I'm just re stating what I already said in my previous post, not sure what else you want. I think it's foolish to PLAN to not lynch day one. But if I have a choice of lynching someone that I townread, and lynching no one, I will try to lynch no one. I hope other people would follow suit. This is his opinion. I don't agree with persay but it isn't really alignment indicative. It isn't a strong expression of opinion to be honest, just a "wish" (I added this because I didn't want to only pick out scummy things jkirby said and ignore rest of his filter) + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 10:13 jrkirby wrote:
Koshi
Xzavier
Nightcat99
Gotard
cloud-9
These players haven't posted anything/enough in my opinion. It's only been a couple hours, so you might be asleep/ at work. But just a PSA, these are currently "lurkers". Doesn't reveal his view on lurkers but just "throw" the topic of lurkers out on the table. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 10:22 jrkirby wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:18 Umasi wrote:
Does it really matter if we haven't seen things from other players at this point?
It's been two hours since the game began, some people could still be working, etc. The way you popped in, said one thing kinda suspicious, then popped out is what really irks me.
Don't apologize and talk about other forums as an excuse, excuses are bad. Reasons are fine, but that didn't feel like a reason to me.
We don't need to point out no lynching as an option, because it's BAD
No lynching is something that scum would LIKE.
I think I said it in the last game I played (too lazy to dig it up,) but the only tool a townie has is their vote, so don't waste it on something like a no lynch. There should always be someone who is objectively "scummiest" that you'd rather vote for than no lynch, have a little confidence. Well, this game is majority lynch, so voting for the "scummiest" person could be what causes a lynch not to happen. I'm pretty sure scum wouldn't mind lynching town either. General common sense. It's just me but I don't like this semi-joking statement. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 10:32 jrkirby wrote:Honestly? I have real trouble seeing scum until I see voting patterns. I'm slightly more suspicious of Sponge, Umasi, and Rainbows than the rest. Sponge I've stated my reasons for. I don't really trust my read on Rainbows because [meta here] I thought he was scum last time I played with him and he wasn't. Umasi just reads a bit ornery, so that could be the reason for my weak read.My vote on hzflank was kinda a combo of joke/pressure as you guys pointed out. It got a bit of discussion, but didn't get much of a rise out of hzflank, who I currently have null read on. I guess I should unvote him now, since the pressure obviously didn't do too much. ##unvote: hzflank A list of suspicion list that doesn't have "legitimate" reasons or evidence. So he does feel suspicious about Sponge afterall about him not sharing his opening post in time, I'm assuming. About Rainbow, I am not sure. He words in a confusing way. In last game, jkirby thought Rainbow was scum but he was a town. So in this game he thinks Rainbow is a town but he could be a scum or vise versa? Concerning Umasi, his reasoning it not satisfying either. Also he doubts his ability to read other people. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 11:03 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:32 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 10:23 Chromatically wrote:
Kirby, who do you think is scum? Honestly? I have real trouble seeing scum until I see voting patterns. I'm slightly more suspicious of Sponge, Umasi, and Rainbows than the rest. Sponge I've stated my reasons for. I don't really trust my read on Rainbows because [meta here] I thought he was scum last time I played with him and he wasn't. Umasi just reads a bit ornery, so that could be the reason for my weak read. My vote on hzflank was kinda a combo of joke/pressure as you guys pointed out. It got a bit of discussion, but didn't get much of a rise out of hzflank, who I currently have null read on. I guess I should unvote him now, since the pressure obviously didn't do too much. ##unvote: hzflank Why are you suspicious of Rainbows? What do you think about Super? Chromatically followed up asking why jkirby is suspicious of Rainbow and what he thinks of Super. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 11:56 StiMaDDict wrote:
Waiting on jkirby's response to Chromatically's question. I had same question as Chromatically and brought it back up. At the end, he still hasn't answered it at the time of me posting this. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 10:47 jrkirby wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:42 Rainbows wrote:
I play exactly the same as scum and town imo.
Last game was just me being frustrated and correct :p lol. You should fear the Rainbows. Anyone think this could be a scumslip? He seems the kind that might want to subtly brag about it if he were scum. I can never figure out when people are joking and not. This is just really fucking weak and gets on my nerve. If it is a joke, then fuck me. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 10:58 jrkirby wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:56 Umasi wrote:
He came in, emphasized his newness to the game, and it felt like he was giving excuses for not posting, not reasons.
(I realize that they're extremely similar, but I think it's a matter of tone)
the timing he came in at (right when we brought up lurkers) to be like "I'm trying not to lurk"
is just
kind of......weird?
I think it's out of place and scummy. He said he couldn't be in here at the beginning before the game started, right? No real reason to have suspicion on the lurkers yet, just note that they're lurking. This is pretty fucking bad. Protecting a lurker when he was the one to bring up the topic at all. I don't know what he is trying to do, but then again, I'm fucked up pretty hard with my playstyle.. Anyway, protecting not just one lurker but pretty much all of them and making an excuse for them makes me think he is a scum. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 13:21 jrkirby wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 13:14 StiMaDDict wrote:On July 13 2013 13:08 Umasi wrote:
Nightcat, the best way to establish innocence is to scum hunt, it's always time to scumhunt. Apparently I'm the scummiest fucking bastard in this game. Jump on board the StiM wagon and earn easy town cred! You know, I'm done. Contribute? Yeah fucking right. Sit in front of the computer for 6 fucking hours refreshing and trying to god damn contribute and what I get is "so you weren't angry but you pretended to be angry?" Town shouldn't lie about that. I wasn't fucking lying. Jesus. w/e. Cool it dude. For all you know, the people voting for you could be scum trying to get you riled up. Just calm down, post reads, question things, and have a good game. You won't play your best when you're tilting. You're in no way doomed right now. I guess I should thanks for his kind words (?) but as Chromatically has pointed out, he is trying to pat me on the head as if he is saying, "Chromatically and Umasi could scum you know. Come here, you poor baby." + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 13:31 jrkirby wrote:
2 votes land on a guy is quick succession, I'd be stupid if I weren't at least a BIT suspicious. As far as I can tell, stim is just acting like a bit of an idiot, is flustered, and frustrated. Doesn't seem like scumtell to me. You're free to have your vote, and I don't have a solid scumread on either of you, but I will be looking a bit more closely at your filters. No stand or point whatsoever. I'm not a scum. Chromatically and Umasi are not scum, but they are "bit" suspicious. What is your stance man? Stop hedging. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 13:38 jrkirby wrote:
I don't think he's town. I think he's stupid, and have a nullread. Well thanks, I think I'm stupid too. I'm not a town but you have a nullread on me? What was the purpose of writing above two posts then? Confused and scummy. I am not liking how he is dealing with me blowing up. He seems to be neither or both defending and pressuring in this situation. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 13:42 jrkirby wrote:
I don't think he's thinking through what he's saying. His actions don't seem town because they're foolish from every way you look at them. But that doesn't make him clearly scum. Hedging. Period. Conclusion: jkirby is my biggest scumread atm. He seems to be Onegue from XLII. Acting as if he is contributing but without actual content. He is not really expressing his reads and tend much more to hedge. He has not established a strong stance as a town and hasn't given clear reasons for his suspicion. ##Vote: jkirby Mmmm greetings stranger. I'm not surprised to see your kind around here... I like the case, esp the hedging point. +1
Can you explain which parts of the case are most compelling to you? I disagree with this case, and I'd like to hear from someone who buys into it.
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On July 14 2013 03:37 StiMaDDict wrote:Show nested quote +I hate Umasi and Chrom as lynch targets for Day 1. Town does not want to lynch guys this active and scumhunting this hard. Regardless of the fact that I think Superfluous is scummier at this point, I'd push for a Lurker lynch over one of either of Umasi or Chrom. Elaboration on this please. Specifically who do you consider Lurker at this point? Note: I agree that Umasi and Chromatically are bad lynch candidates
I consider Superfluous and Nightcat the most dangerous kind of 'lurkers' at this point. They've checked into the thread but haven't offered anything without being directly questioned first. Koshi and Gotard could have also fit this bill, but their activity is trending upwards. It seemed silly to call people out on activity level when the game opened on a Friday night, and now we're in the weekend, but since the deadline is going to come Sunday night, I guess it's starting to become relevant.
On July 14 2013 03:39 Koshi wrote:Super is not putting enough effort into this game, the annoying part is that his posts make that blatantly obvious. I would lynch him over 9-cloud. My policy on 0 posters is that they are mathematically town. Let them get modkilled or replaced, but never lynch.
Who would be your primary lynch candidtate at this time?
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On July 14 2013 04:20 Rainbows wrote:
Consider Gotard, he is mafia. Fairly inactive and scummy. Good lynch.
Just went filter diving on Gotard. Even in his list post he has yet to actually call anyone scummy. All he's done is confirm town reads. Mathematically, he thinks more people are town than is possible:
On July 13 2013 19:53 Gotard wrote:Hello! After some lurking (jk I was sleeping) i'd like to share my thoughts: 1) hzflank - cold, calculated. Null read. 2) StiMaDDict - bad town. It would be too easy if he's mafia. 3) Chromatically - I think he's pushing stim too hard (he's agressive in general) but at the same time it's good for town to see some bandwagons going 4) jrkirby - confuses me a little.But he has a similar view on StiMaDDict as i do. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 13:38 jrkirby wrote:
I don't think he's town. I think he's stupid, and have a nullread. 5) Koshi - inexperienced or lurking hard. 6) Xzavier - one good post Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 04:58 Xzavier wrote:
its fine, all i have to do is show supporting evidence and never try to make my own case on gotard. No wait, that one was good. Need to see some more activity from him to have a read. I don't agree that lynching lurker is better than no lynch (9v3 > 8v3) 7) Rainbows - A lot of posts with minimum impact seems more townie than mafia. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:42 Rainbows wrote:
I play exactly the same as scum and town imo.
wtf? 8) Nightcat99 - lurking newbie. 9) Umasi - Very aggressive same as last game I played with him (He was town). 11) Hurricane Sponge - biggest town read. Really liked this post. 12) Superfluous - Town vibe. 13) cloud-9 - US timezone and 0 posts.
@Gotard
You mention that your biggest scum reads thought StiM was town. Who are these 'biggest scum reads' you're referring to?
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On July 14 2013 04:29 Superfluous wrote:Going back through the posts, I'm a little alarmed at Hurricane Sponge's change of tone. In this post he disagrees with my opinion and says it casts suspicion on me, but doesnt state that I'm a huge scumread or anything. Here I interpreted his post as acknowledging that while we disagree, I was still trying to state my opinion and reasons for having that view. He then says some weird things here though. For instance, he says that he agrees with others' view of me who had semi-defended me, and in the same list puts me as the only scum read. I realize his view may have changed, but it strikes me especially considering in the second post I listed he acknowledged the possibility of a bandwagon on me just because of differing opinions. We also have a mutual disagreement on reads as well. I don't see how hzflank and xzavier have contributed substantially more than me. While knowing everyone's scum reads is good, I don't like it when people show up, say their scum reads, then expect other people to act on them. As for Stim I think he's more likely bad town then mafia. Then again everyone else is saying the same thing, so could be mafia excuse for not lynching him.
You still haven't shared any of your scumhunting with us. You're showing massive weakness to relationship / association theory (i.e. your suspicion of hz because he's suspicious of Umasi, your claim that because I agree with some of the views of people who happened to semi-defend you that I must think you're town, etc.)
I much prefer people who show up and share their scumreads than people not sharing scumreads (and reasoning for them) at all as I've seen from you so far. The only scumhunting I've seen from you is a weak FoS on hzflank, the reasoning being that he was suspicious of Umasi. I think you can agree this is not particularly compelling.
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On July 14 2013 04:51 Superfluous wrote:
I'm pointing out Sponge as a possibility as he has seemed to be clear from suspicion after jrkirby's early pressure. Xzavier is my biggest scum read atm for the reasons listed. I have a gut feeling and really have not liked the tone in his posts.
Quote a post, bold the relevant parts, and make a case. I don't feel a strong sense of direction from your posting. Scumhunt with purpose and you'll get the town's attention. Right now it just feels like you're 'hunting' to clear yourself from suspicion, not for the benefit of the Town.
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EBWOP: By which I mean it feels like you're saying 'jeez, i'm hunting, get off my back' not 'guys, I really think this guy is scum and we should be getting our votes on him now'
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On July 14 2013 05:32 Gotard wrote:
I didn't want to bring any names to the table because "my biggest scum reads" were weak because it was an early stage of the game and I wanted to stop Chromatically from tunneling Stim (saying my thoughts straight made me explaining myself for whole day in the last game I played and I would be lynched if mafia didn't make silly mistakes and few other townies said that i'm bad and not mafia. The same think i did with stim).
"All he's done is confirm town reads. Mathematically, he thinks more people are town than is possible:"
My "biggest" reads:
1) hzflank - cold, calculated. Null read.
4) jrkirby - confuses me a little. But he has a similar view on StiMaDDict as i do.
5) Koshi - inexperienced or lurking hard.
6) Xzavier - one good post [...] Need to see some more activity from him to have a read
8) Nightcat99 - lurking newbie.
13) cloud-9 - US timezone and 0 posts.
and Rainbows seemed really confusing.
you have some possible people to choose from...
You need to understand that if someone is 99.9% town for me he still might be mafia but it's highly unlikely and don't say "Mathematically" if you can't prove something "Mathematically" (you didn't even try rotfl).
Have you done anything to chase down these reads? None of this is an indictment of any of these players and it seems like you being confused is grounds for being scum in your eyes (your Rainbow and Kirby reads). You also list inexperience as scummy (with your koshi read). And then you list null reads in your scum list (hzflank).
I asked you for your scum reads at the time you posted that. This isn't a list of scum reads; it's a list of players in the game and gut reactions to each. Have you based none of this on actual post analysis or evidence?
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[QUOTE]On July 14 2013 05:18 Rainbows wrote:
Super sounds so scummy, or like he plays on epicmafia.com too much.
In either case we do need 7 votes to lynch today. if its a nl, imma be pissed.
/QUOTE]
Why do you think Super sounds scummy?
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On July 14 2013 05:47 Superfluous wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 05:17 Umasi wrote:On July 14 2013 05:14 Superfluous wrote:
Admittedly I am giving reads more to get off my back than to help us. I'm trying to get reads, but nothing is super strong so I'm not going to jump to lynch someone. I would vote for xzavier right now because he's my strongest read, but thats because we have to vote not because I feel he's 100% scum It really hurts us to lynch town day one, which is the same reason I brought up the idea of no lynching, and the same reason I'm trying to relieve pressure from myself.
That said ##Vote Xzavier Because I'm going to a concert tonight and may be up late/ sleep in so I don't want to forget to vote. You could also be trying to relieve pressure from yourself because you're scum /gasp You literally just told us "I have not been scumhunting, I am just trying not to die" It goes without saying that I could be relieving pressure from myself because I'm mafia. If I pointed it out in my post it would just seem like I'm prematurely covering for myself and change nothing. Don't put words in my mouth, I didn't say I haven't been scumhunting I said I haven't gotten a read a feel confident enough to push a lynch for. And obviously I'm trying not to die, everyone doesn't want to die day one regardless of alignment. Both because it would hurt your team and you wouldnt get to play as long.
Can you make a case on Xzavier? It seems like you have thread support (several people have mentioned they find Xzavier scummy).
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EBWOP:
@Superfluous
Also, you have to vote in the voting thread for it to count.
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On July 14 2013 05:56 Chromatically wrote:KirbyStim's case on Kirby takes a lot of stuff that's not scummy and says it is, but it also has good points (some of which are probably repeated here). Here's what I don't like: a) fluff about Sponge's first post b) wishy-washy reads c) lurker list d) Stim interactions a) fluff about Sponge's first postA large amount of Kirby's early posting is talking about Sponge's pregame post and trying to get him to post it. He only starts doing this light pressure AFTER I start it. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? Scum are always looking for some way to post so that they seem town without actually doing anything. This pregame thing is something VERY easy for scum to comment on and lightly push. He notices that I'm a little suspicious and seizes on it so that he can post something at all. Notice how very lightly he's pressuring: Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:48 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 08:47 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:46 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 08:42 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? Correct. I would not have posted this particular post as scum. But you might have posted another post starting with the same line. Or maybe you did post that as scum. But you certainly would never have said: The following was written on the contingency I got Scum in my role PM. Hahaha! Very right you are, I hadn't thought of that. So then show us the post that you would have posted if you rolled scum, eh? Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:03 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 08:54 Hurricane Sponge wrote:Umasi, stop defending me. Don't defend people in general. It's more valuable to hear them defend themselves by tenfold. (Also, I don't want you handcuffing yourself to my ankle then flipping scum and having Town waste a bunch of time re-vetting me.) On July 13 2013 08:48 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 08:47 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:46 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 08:42 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? Correct. I would not have posted this particular post as scum. But you might have posted another post starting with the same line. Or maybe you did post that as scum. But you certainly would never have said: The following was written on the contingency I got Scum in my role PM. Hahaha! Very right you are, I hadn't thought of that. So then show us the post that you would have posted if you rolled scum, eh? This is a very reasonable request, but unfortunately I will not be posting it at this time for a couple reasons. First, it's not as impressive as the one I posted. Second, I intend to stay active in this community and will probably end up using a version of it at some point when (if?) I ever get that 'You Are Scum' PM. You ought to post it anyway. Having something that you'd post on the condition that you're scum is foolish in any respect, even if no one knows what it is. Ideally, a scum player would want to post the same way as scum as they do town in almost all situations. The first one is a conversational question, the second one is a suggestion. When I pressure someone I think is suspicious, I don't "suggest" things to them and tell them "what they ought to do". He doesn't actually care about getting the post, he just wants to look like he does.b) wishy-washy readsShow nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:22 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 09:14 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 09:10 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:57 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:54 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:42 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? Correct. I would not have posted this particular post as scum. On July 13 2013 08:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:43 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:41 Umasi wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:
[quote]
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum?
[quote]
I'd be very interested in hearing your explanation as to why you honestly think this is scummy. I certainly wouldn't post that if I were scum, it is nothing but a good thing for town. Why WOULD he want to post that as scum? to look town. Scum love to spew general pro town thingsvto get ez town cred.. This is correct. In general, these sorts of posts should result in a null read in a veteran game. But Early Day 1, when it's generally assumed nothing interesting is happening, seemed like a good time to get PSA's out of the way for a newbie crowd. The info is valuable, but it should not get me town cred. It's more important to me that there's a town consensus on the actual content of the post, not my alignment. (Plenty of time for that later.) You obviously think that your post was pro town, right? That's why you shouldn't have posted it as scum. But then you say that you shouldn't get town cred from it, indicating that you don't think it's pro town. ? Pro town in a newbie game, yes. Probably wouldn't have posted it in a Veteran game unless I really felt the Day 1 conversation stagnating early. I think all my posts are pro-town. Otherwise, why would I post them? (That should apply to everyone but those with a severe inferiority complex.) That doesn't answer the point. The point is that your logic is inconsistant. You say that you wouldn't have posted this as scum. Why? You think that the post is valuable enough to town that scum wouldn't want to post it. You think that only a townie would post it. However, you say that you shouldn't get a town read for it, even though you think that only town would post it. I'm not in the business of telling people I'm town. I'm going to scumhunt and try to win this game, and a byproduct of that should be that people will view me as town. Put another way: I don't believe posting specifically with the goal of acquiring towncred is particularly helpful in anything but circumstances where I could be mislynched. I'm prioritizing getting the Town ducks in a row here in the early going so we can move on to the scumhunt, not establishing my Townie-ness. Interestingly, people (Chrom and jrkirby) have seemed more interested in analyzing why I posted rather than what I posted. Can I infer by this that we largely agree with what I have said? Pretty much what you said was: meta is bad, this is the meta that I might accidentally do. That's fine, neither particularly good nor bad imo. But you claimed that you would only post it on the condition that you were town. You admit to having a post that you would post on the condition that you're scum (which I think is foolish), but you won't show it to us, and that's just a tiny bit suspicious. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:46 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 09:41 Umasi wrote:On July 13 2013 09:35 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 09:30 StiMaDDict wrote:On July 13 2013 09:22 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 09:14 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 09:10 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:57 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:54 Chromatically wrote:
[quote]
[quote]
You obviously think that your post was pro town, right? That's why you shouldn't have posted it as scum.
But then you say that you shouldn't get town cred from it, indicating that you don't think it's pro town.
? Pro town in a newbie game, yes. Probably wouldn't have posted it in a Veteran game unless I really felt the Day 1 conversation stagnating early. I think all my posts are pro-town. Otherwise, why would I post them? (That should apply to everyone but those with a severe inferiority complex.) That doesn't answer the point. The point is that your logic is inconsistant. You say that you wouldn't have posted this as scum. Why? You think that the post is valuable enough to town that scum wouldn't want to post it. You think that only a townie would post it. However, you say that you shouldn't get a town read for it, even though you think that only town would post it. I'm not in the business of telling people I'm town. I'm going to scumhunt and try to win this game, and a byproduct of that should be that people will view me as town. Put another way: I don't believe posting specifically with the goal of acquiring towncred is particularly helpful in anything but circumstances where I could be mislynched. I'm prioritizing getting the Town ducks in a row here in the early going so we can move on to the scumhunt, not establishing my Townie-ness. Interestingly, people (Chrom and jrkirby) have seemed more interested in analyzing why I posted rather than what I posted. Can I infer by this that we largely agree with what I have said? Pretty much what you said was: meta is bad, this is the meta that I might accidentally do. That's fine, neither particularly good nor bad imo. But you claimed that you would only post it on the condition that you were town. You admit to having a post that you would post on the condition that you're scum (which I think is foolish), but you won't show it to us, and that's just a tiny bit suspicious. Seriously man.. this is the best you can do? If he has scum post, big deal. For all we know THIS could be his scum post. Who knows. Is this your first game jrkirby? "For all we know, THIS could be his scum post." That's exactly what I was trying to get information on. Here was my reasoning: if this is his scum post, then he won't HAVE a real scum post. But it's been long enough that he could've written another one by now, so no point in pushing it anymore. No, this is my second game, kinda. Why is there no point in pushing it? There's no reason to not push it if you think it was scummy, and if you were pushing it for the sake of having something to do, just go do something else. Still, more people, what do you think of Superfluous post and then disappearance? Me - "It's been long enough that he could've written another one by now." If he had posted one immediately after I had asked it means something different than if he posts one an hour or two after I asked. Superfluous's post & lurk is bad, but give him a bit, he might show back up. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:32 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 10:23 Chromatically wrote:
Kirby, who do you think is scum? Honestly? I have real trouble seeing scum until I see voting patterns. I'm slightly more suspicious of Sponge, Umasi, and Rainbows than the rest. Sponge I've stated my reasons for. I don't really trust my read on Rainbows because [meta here] I thought he was scum last time I played with him and he wasn't. Umasi just reads a bit ornery, so that could be the reason for my weak read. My vote on hzflank was kinda a combo of joke/pressure as you guys pointed out. It got a bit of discussion, but didn't get much of a rise out of hzflank, who I currently have null read on. I guess I should unvote him now, since the pressure obviously didn't do too much. ##unvote: hzflank This is just generic wishy-washiness and unwillingness to commit to reads. Townies have at least some scum reads that they provide to the thread and push, at least a little. Kirby hasn't pushed a scumread all game. Kirby hasn't even had a scumread that he couldn't easily back out of. As scum, Kirby can easily justify a vote on anyone now because he doesn't have any reads out there. c) lurker listShow nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:13 jrkirby wrote:
Koshi
Xzavier
Nightcat99
Gotard
cloud-9
These players haven't posted anything/enough in my opinion. It's only been a couple hours, so you might be asleep/ at work. But just a PSA, these are currently "lurkers". This should be pretty obvious, but lurker lists are scummy in general. Everyone knows who hasn't posted. There's no reason to post something like this as town, it's totally useless. Scum sometimes do stuff like this because they really really want to look useful. Scum think that lists like this will look pro town and give them something to post about so that they seem active. d) Stim interactionsShow nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:32 jrkirby wrote:
Keep your cool stim, rainbows just misinterpreted your post, that's all. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 13:21 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 13:14 StiMaDDict wrote:On July 13 2013 13:08 Umasi wrote:
Nightcat, the best way to establish innocence is to scum hunt, it's always time to scumhunt. Apparently I'm the scummiest fucking bastard in this game. Jump on board the StiM wagon and earn easy town cred! You know, I'm done. Contribute? Yeah fucking right. Sit in front of the computer for 6 fucking hours refreshing and trying to god damn contribute and what I get is "so you weren't angry but you pretended to be angry?" Town shouldn't lie about that. I wasn't fucking lying. Jesus. w/e. Cool it dude. For all you know, the people voting for you could be scum trying to get you riled up. Just calm down, post reads, question things, and have a good game. You won't play your best when you're tilting. You're in no way doomed right now. Kirby consoles Stim twice during the game. Read both of these (especially the second one), and ask yourself why does it seem like Kirby KNOWS that Stim is town?Look at that second quote. "You won't play your best when you're tilting." There's not a HINT of doubt in that post that Stim is town. That's not something that you post to someone that you're even slightly suspicious of. "Well this makes sense if he has a town read on Stim, right?" Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 13:38 jrkirby wrote:
I don't think he's town. I think he's stupid, and have a nullread. Apart from the simple fact that he's trying to leave his options open to switch on the wagon later, this is COMPLETELY at odds with his subconscious attitude toward Stim in the previous conversation. ##Unvote##Vote: jrkirby
a.) Generally, I'm more forgiving of fluff in the beginning (as I think most of us are). The sheeping pressure is much more concerning to me. I'm willing to write off his repeated request for my scumpost as curiosity, but there's literally no reason I can think of that a Townie would want another Townie to post what he would have posted as scum. It would just clutter the thread, and pressing it as hard as he did after I gave the reasons I wouldn't post is strange to me.
b.) His only unique analysis that I can find in his filter is attempting to chase down my contingency post and then awkwardly hollering at the thread about a Rainbows 'scumslip' that was clearly a jokepost:
On July 13 2013 10:47 jrkirby wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:42 Rainbows wrote:
I play exactly the same as scum and town imo.
Last game was just me being frustrated and correct :p lol. You should fear the Rainbows. Anyone think this could be a scumslip? He seems the kind that might want to subtly brag about it if he were scum.
He makes a very subjective personality read and projects that into an alignment read. (Hint: THIS IS BAD PLAY) I'd say that he was just trying to put some pressure on Rainbows, but again there is zero follow-up.
Regardless, on the point of wishy-washy reads, everyone who clicks his filter would agree with Chrom's assessment.
c.) Attention Town: Chrom hates lists. Don't post lists in Chrom games. Personally, I don't find lists intrinsically scummy, but a list of lurkers sure isn't content. It's easy to incorporate a PSA like this into a scumhunting post, so I can't explain town motivation for posting a list of lurkers other than if they were thinking they were somehow doing a favor to the community in a newbie game. Weak post.
d.) I don't agree with part of Chrom's analysis here. I see a very human motivation for posting in this fashion: When addressing someone directly, you're more likely to frame your dialogue as if they were town. When answering questions ABOUT a person, you are more honest about how scummy you think they are. I don't think Kirby was posting as if he knew StiM was town; I think he was just addressing him as town out of basic human respect for the volitile situation.
However, I'm very glad Chrom included point 'd' in his case because it pointed out the fact that he did try to comfort StiM on two occasions without actually having a Town read on him. To me, the concern with this point is that Kirby swooping in to try to calm the situation down only serves to stifle the conversation. StiM flipping out was giving us great reads and the more he posted, the more it revealed about himself and his attackers. I wouldn't want to calm StiM (or anyone) down! I want people to flip out, because there is truth in anger. If he were angry scum, it makes him easier to tag if he's rageposting. If he's angry town, those emotions will be relatable and we should be able to tell if they are genuine.
Kirby does follow-up with the stock good advice for a player on tilt (play the game, tell us your reads, don't be on tilt, etc.), but I have a hard time giving him town cred for this.
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On July 14 2013 06:24 Chromatically wrote:
No no no, it's not an association at all. That's actually my favorite part of the whole thing.
If Kirby KNOWS that Stim is town, then he is 100% scum. That is a fact, not a preflip association.
Kirby's interactions with Stim make it seem like he either KNOWS, or he STRONGLY SUSPECTS that Stim is town. However, he doesn't suspect this at all, he has a null read.
I'll admit, that was my favorite part too. I would be really proud of climbing that deep into a scum mind. That kind of inconsistency in attitudes feels rare. It's juicy, but I don't think it can be the only evidence. Fortunately, it's not. The lack of conviction combined with lurkiness make Kirby a strong lynch candidate to me.
##vote: jrkirby
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EBWOP: To bring up a point from hz that I fell in love with, the only 'green mark' I can come up with for kirby is his jokepost where he made a 'case' on hzflank. That would be a pretty weird opening post as scum, but I can think of a couple different justifications for it, so it's not a deal-breaker.
Compared to the 4 or 5 'red marks' he's accumulated from various sources, I feel comfortable putting my vote on him.
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On July 14 2013 07:11 Koshi wrote:
@hzflank
That is a really impressing post. I would give you a cookie but I will give you this instead.
##Vote: Superfluous
I also like the kirby case but kirby hasn't posted in the last 20 hours. So I am reluctant to put my vote on him. Kirby has proven that he can make big analytical posts or at least is willing to do so. He has proven that he can pick up on 1 scummier sentence in a big convincing pro town post. So I would like to give kirby the chance to do this before I put my vote on him.
What?! Find one. Now. Please.
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On July 14 2013 07:22 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 07:04 Chromatically wrote:
Trying to stay alive isn't a scumtell though. Let's say that you come back to the thread and see a case on you. Your forat order of business, as would be any townie's, is to defend yourself.
I really think that Super is just new. His posting doesn't feel like scum. He makes an honest effort to scumhunt, he points out things that he thinks are scummy (ex: one random sponge post). When the game starts on day 1 the first order of business is not to stay alive, but to create an environment in which scum can be found. The second order of business is to find scum. If you do these things then you do not have to worry about staying alive. While Super may be new he does say that he has experience on other forums. There was not a case on him, only some very light pressure. There was no need for him to defend himself rather than looking for scum. I feel like I gave him a chance to explain his reads and he failed to do so. He did not have to give me reasoning that I fully agree with, he just had to show me reasoning that I can understand from a town point of view. It is very scummy that he avoided the questions and later gave answers that I cannot understand. He says that Xzavier is his current scum read, which is obviously a reasonable town position at this point. Super's reasoning there is understandable, but has not yet attempted to strengthen the read. What does he expect people to do about gut feelings? I cannot see anything in Super's filter that looks town.
Super's reasoning is OMGUS.
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None of these three are mutually exclusive to me right now. All look scummy for a wide variety of reasons, and I wouldn't expect the flip of one to drastically affect my opinion of the other two. I could conceive of a scum team that included all three of these guys simultaneously.
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On July 14 2013 08:02 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 07:22 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 14 2013 07:11 Koshi wrote:
@hzflank
That is a really impressing post. I would give you a cookie but I will give you this instead.
##Vote: Superfluous
I also like the kirby case but kirby hasn't posted in the last 20 hours. So I am reluctant to put my vote on him. Kirby has proven that he can make big analytical posts or at least is willing to do so. He has proven that he can pick up on 1 scummier sentence in a big convincing pro town post. So I would like to give kirby the chance to do this before I put my vote on him. What?! Find one. Now. Please. The joking one. I didn't say it was good. I am just saying that he is willing to do so.
Wow. Even if you interpret a joke post as evidence that someone is capable of making a serious case (/eyeroll), then that's actually evidence that he's NOT willing to do so, because he hasn't made a case yet in the actual game.
I question your judgement, Koshi. Is that the leading reason you're leaning Town on kirby? Or is it because he's lurking, and you apparently find that to be a pro-town move?
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On July 14 2013 08:07 Koshi wrote:
I am not leaning Town on kirby AT ALL. But I am saying that I like the Super case much better. If there was a lynch right now I would go:
1) Super
2) kirby
3) Gotard
4) no lynch unless everybody really wants Stim.
Fine. I want you to address your train of thought on why someone posting a jokepost and then nothing gives you confidence that they will make serious cases in the future. I also want you to comment on why you think lurking makes someone more pro-town.
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On July 14 2013 08:22 Gotard wrote:
Jrkirby looks like a better lynch than Superfluous right now.
Why not Superfluous? He isn't afraid to share his strong reads. His posts aren't full of useless crap (Hello Rainbows!) even when he isn't 100% right which concerns me. More pro town that jrkirby in general feel.
Why Jrkirby? I don't see him making pro town content. His post claiming that hzflank is mafia was awkward and then he defended himself saying that it was only a joke/pressure combo. Then posing useless lurker list (seems like every newbie game needs one). But as far as his interaction with stim goes I think you are overthinking it.
##vote: jrkirby.
Do you think Superfluous is Town?
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On July 14 2013 13:31 Chromatically wrote:I just reread hz's case, and I really don't like it. He calls out a lot of things that aren't actually scummy. Look at the summary: Show nested quote +
To conclude, Super's priorities seem to be
1) Stay Alive
2) Find a person to vote for
3) Find justifications for voting
This is literally a list of objectives as either alignment. Town obviously wants to stay alive. Finding a person to vote for with reasoning is also town. The difference between the alignments is that town want to find scum, and mafia doesn't actually want to. Super looks like he's honestly trying to find scum. In particular, I really like these two posts: Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 04:29 Superfluous wrote:Going back through the posts, I'm a little alarmed at Hurricane Sponge's change of tone. In this post he disagrees with my opinion and says it casts suspicion on me, but doesnt state that I'm a huge scumread or anything. Here I interpreted his post as acknowledging that while we disagree, I was still trying to state my opinion and reasons for having that view. He then says some weird things here though. For instance, he says that he agrees with others' view of me who had semi-defended me, and in the same list puts me as the only scum read. I realize his view may have changed, but it strikes me especially considering in the second post I listed he acknowledged the possibility of a bandwagon on me just because of differing opinions. We also have a mutual disagreement on reads as well. I don't see how hzflank and xzavier have contributed substantially more than me. While knowing everyone's scum reads is good, I don't like it when people show up, say their scum reads, then expect other people to act on them. As for Stim I think he's more likely bad town then mafia. Then again everyone else is saying the same thing, so could be mafia excuse for not lynching him. Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 04:37 Superfluous wrote:
Also, idk what is up with jrkirby. If there was a third party that'd be my guess for him, right now just null read I guess though. This is because his play has been somewhat erratic with no clear goal to me other than tunneling on Sponge, which didn't really do much. He strikes me as the type of player who could be dangerous late game for us because he seems hard to read. Im curious jrkirby, what has been your goal with your posts thus far? Super wasn't under any pressure when he posted these. He's actively reading the thread, looking for scum, and most importantly sharing his thought process with the thread. This is very, very genuine and townie. Basically: Super is trying to find scum, even if it doesn't look like it at first glance. Kirby is NOT trying to find scum, but he's trying to look like he is.
He wasn't trying to find scum. He only posted that because I issued a list of my reads and he was the only one in bright red on the list. That was a 'Defend Thyself' reaction post, nothing proactive about it, Chrom.
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On July 15 2013 05:29 Superfluous wrote:
Well the main strength of vet is getting hit at a point when mafia needs a kill then claiming. Now you should lead town since you claimed but you're saying you are getting replaced.
It'd be a risky claim by maf but there's no definitive role list so we can't be certain that you're telling the truth, even if you probably are and this is just a bad play.
wat
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On July 15 2013 05:13 Xzavier wrote:
honestly, between jkirby and super im kinda stunned. I see them both as scummy as shit. Right now i dont even feel the need to OMGUS super because his vote on my was without a case and the only case he made wasnt even on me.
Im sorry for working a fuckton, im home for the rest of the day and will be active for the most part( ill be active for sure before and up to the deadline, it would be horrid if we didnt get a lynch off) my schuelde last week was this 2:30-11 pretty much every day the second half of the week, add classes in the morning to that and what else do you want me to do?
my schuelde for this week is alot nicer and i can see myself being able to be present more. So ill do that. And people will be happy and like it.
after reading the cases on super and jkirby, im kinda feeling like they are slightly more useful than somebody like cloud-9 who has lurked the entire fucking game.
like i said a while back they were both on my scumdar, right now i want to lynch super, because his play has shown no potential to benefit town.
laddies and gents, i give you:
SUPERRRRR
the only thing i dont understand about him is why vote me when everybody else clearly states that you dont have a tangible reason to do so? and then you make a case on a different person but dont switch your vote? I dont follow your play at all, its confusing. But its scummy because it couldnt possibly be from a town perspective. you havent dont much at all in the ways of actively scumhunt. i get that you werent here yesterday and im the last one to yell at you for lurking, but beyond that you actually havnt added anythign to the conversation, or defended yourself. Have made a point to dodge questions that a town would love to jump at in order to display innocence.
him sticking to his "gut-read" is damning the town. he needs to vote on a bandwagon or we run the possibility of a no-lynch which by far benefits scum the most, we NEED to get a lynch off.
jkirby also throwing his vote away is worrying me, but atleast hes made a case on the person he has voted for.
basically what this boils down to is im voting Super because i havnt seen any actual real scumhunting out of him and iv seem attempts (although unsuccessful/silly) out of Jkirby, This leads me to think that he is actually trying.
##VOTE: Superfluous
Typical Xzavier OMGUS post. The basis for your entire vote on him is because he voted for you. Try to expand your horizons a bit, Xzavier...
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On July 15 2013 05:33 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 05:27 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 14 2013 13:31 Chromatically wrote:I just reread hz's case, and I really don't like it. He calls out a lot of things that aren't actually scummy. Look at the summary:
To conclude, Super's priorities seem to be
1) Stay Alive
2) Find a person to vote for
3) Find justifications for voting
This is literally a list of objectives as either alignment. Town obviously wants to stay alive. Finding a person to vote for with reasoning is also town. The difference between the alignments is that town want to find scum, and mafia doesn't actually want to. Super looks like he's honestly trying to find scum. In particular, I really like these two posts: On July 14 2013 04:29 Superfluous wrote:Going back through the posts, I'm a little alarmed at Hurricane Sponge's change of tone. In this post he disagrees with my opinion and says it casts suspicion on me, but doesnt state that I'm a huge scumread or anything. Here I interpreted his post as acknowledging that while we disagree, I was still trying to state my opinion and reasons for having that view. He then says some weird things here though. For instance, he says that he agrees with others' view of me who had semi-defended me, and in the same list puts me as the only scum read. I realize his view may have changed, but it strikes me especially considering in the second post I listed he acknowledged the possibility of a bandwagon on me just because of differing opinions. We also have a mutual disagreement on reads as well. I don't see how hzflank and xzavier have contributed substantially more than me. While knowing everyone's scum reads is good, I don't like it when people show up, say their scum reads, then expect other people to act on them. As for Stim I think he's more likely bad town then mafia. Then again everyone else is saying the same thing, so could be mafia excuse for not lynching him. On July 14 2013 04:37 Superfluous wrote:
Also, idk what is up with jrkirby. If there was a third party that'd be my guess for him, right now just null read I guess though. This is because his play has been somewhat erratic with no clear goal to me other than tunneling on Sponge, which didn't really do much. He strikes me as the type of player who could be dangerous late game for us because he seems hard to read. Im curious jrkirby, what has been your goal with your posts thus far? Super wasn't under any pressure when he posted these. He's actively reading the thread, looking for scum, and most importantly sharing his thought process with the thread. This is very, very genuine and townie. Basically: Super is trying to find scum, even if it doesn't look like it at first glance. Kirby is NOT trying to find scum, but he's trying to look like he is. He wasn't trying to find scum. He only posted that because I issued a list of my reads and he was the only one in bright red on the list. That was a 'Defend Thyself' reaction post, nothing proactive about it, Chrom. Why would you think that? There's no reason to think that. You weren't even voting him. Kirby has only issues scumreads when someone has SPECIFICALLY ASKED him for them, so he had no choice. No one was asking Super specifically about his reads. It was proactive.
I wasn't voting him, but it was a form of pressure, and obviously he felt that pressure. I'm on #teamlynchkirby for now, but don't say Super has been proactive with scumhunting. He wasn't here, and he hasn't been since.
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On July 15 2013 05:35 Superfluous wrote:
He asked if he was a good play. I'm saying its not, and it doesn't help the town. In an experienced player game it could be an early gambit here I don't think it is if only because he's being replaced.
Where did all that vet stuff come from?
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Rainbows seems like a very very very style-based player. His seems to be a bit of a yolomancer, so endgame with him should be quite fun, if he makes it.
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I'd be on board for a gotard hammer if someone can make a good case that mafia are on this wagon pushing for a mislynch.
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From Nightcat via votethread: "Sorry for just voting , I just got off th airport , and my phone is dieing. I will post my reason when get home."
StiM calling out lurkers for last-second votes. The irony is clogging my pores.
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On July 15 2013 05:50 jrkirby wrote:
Well, superfluous is probably going to vote me, and I'll die.
So, reads:
hzflank and chromatically seem town.
Koshi, xzavier seem a bit scummy, not a bad choice.
cloud-9 is probably going to get replaced, no info on him.
nightcat might come back and be worth something, I wish he had realized he couldn't commit to this. Nullread.
Rainbows sounds pretty town to me too.
Hurricane is someone you should take a close look at, it's hard to tell. He might not be the best lynch tomorrow.
Umasi i don't have a good read on, neither stim.
Gotard would be an excellent lynch tomorrow if I die.
Oh no! A list post!
 ucks for cover from the Rage of Chromaggus*
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EBWOP: Ducks* (yay TL default 13-year old girl smiley set...)
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On July 15 2013 05:56 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 05:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
I'd be on board for a gotard hammer if someone can make a good case that mafia are on this wagon pushing for a mislynch. You don't think that Mafia are on that wagon? From my position you are on the scummy wagon.I am reading Gotard again. I did not think that the cases against him were strong, but on the other hand Gotard's filter after 24 hours was horrible. The problem that I have with reading his more recent posts is that I am struggling to separate an alignment read from a personality read. I think Gotard could very well be scum, but I still think that Super is more likely. If you look at Chrom's defense of Super, almost every point was that it was bad play rather than scum play. When you make that many consecutive defenses and call them all bad play then alarm bells should be ringing.
Elaborate on this if you can, hz.
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@Superfluous
Can you post a list of your Town and Scum reads like kirby did in case you die tonight?
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On July 15 2013 07:06 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 07:01 Chromatically wrote:On July 15 2013 06:53 Koshi wrote:On July 14 2013 04:45 Superfluous wrote:
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough in my posts, but my reasons for Hzflank and xzavier were not only because of association. I am suspicious of Hzflank because he had posts which didn't contribute or add anything (he defended it by saying it's his style of getting discussion started) and because he posted early on then didn't post much afterwards. Xzavier didn't post at all, then showed up and basically agreed with what had been said. He also said I was his biggest scum read but wasn't ready yet to vote for me. It struck me the wrong WAY, and I interpreted it as he was waiting for a reason to lynch me, not that he wasn't going to at all. Again, my interpretation here, but I already listed these reasons in previous posts just want to make it clearer. On July 14 2013 04:51 Superfluous wrote:
I'm pointing out Sponge as a possibility as he has seemed to be clear from suspicion after jrkirby's early pressure. Xzavier is my biggest scum read atm for the reasons listed. I have a gut feeling and really have not liked the tone in his posts. Look at ALL THE REASONS SUPER GIVES. WOOOOWWWWOWWW You sure suddenly have very strong feelings about Super when he wasn't even a scumread not too long ago. There's no way you honestly believe that those are his only reasons. I control-F'd "Xzavier" in his filter and here's the reasons I found: 1) Xzav lurked before suddenly jumping on him JEEZ THIS IS SCUMMY2) Xzav read him as scum SO DID UMASI3) Xzav hasn't contributed YES HE DID? READ THE ENTIRE XZAV POST WHERE HE ALSO MENTIONS SUPER 4) Xzav lurked and then sheeped thread sentiment by voting for him SHEEPED WHO? UMASI? 5) Gut read CRAZYYYYYYYYY I personally agree with points 3 and 4, that's why I don't like Xzav. I find it hard to believe that you honestly missed all of these posts. I capslocked my response. I quoted all 3 posts of Super about Xzavier You were able to find 5 points? I am having a feeling that you are all-in on this Kirby vs Super lynch? Chrom, you are going to look very bad when Super turns red. You realise that?
A Townie realizes it and doesn't care. Mafia would realize it and back off their case. Especially a Day 1 case when it's easy to get away with fuzzy reads and FoS.
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##unvote jrkirby
I'm going to be active at the deadline, and I don't want someone putting the hammer vote into kirby just to ensure there's a lynch. It's now 5-on-5, and I'll be able to follow the next vote to ensure a lynch.
I think both of these guys are scum (you can check my filter to confirm if you haven't been paying attention), and we need a lynch.
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On July 15 2013 07:13 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 07:09 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 15 2013 07:06 Koshi wrote:On July 15 2013 07:01 Chromatically wrote:On July 15 2013 06:53 Koshi wrote:On July 14 2013 04:45 Superfluous wrote:
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough in my posts, but my reasons for Hzflank and xzavier were not only because of association. I am suspicious of Hzflank because he had posts which didn't contribute or add anything (he defended it by saying it's his style of getting discussion started) and because he posted early on then didn't post much afterwards. Xzavier didn't post at all, then showed up and basically agreed with what had been said. He also said I was his biggest scum read but wasn't ready yet to vote for me. It struck me the wrong WAY, and I interpreted it as he was waiting for a reason to lynch me, not that he wasn't going to at all. Again, my interpretation here, but I already listed these reasons in previous posts just want to make it clearer. On July 14 2013 04:51 Superfluous wrote:
I'm pointing out Sponge as a possibility as he has seemed to be clear from suspicion after jrkirby's early pressure. Xzavier is my biggest scum read atm for the reasons listed. I have a gut feeling and really have not liked the tone in his posts. Look at ALL THE REASONS SUPER GIVES. WOOOOWWWWOWWW You sure suddenly have very strong feelings about Super when he wasn't even a scumread not too long ago. There's no way you honestly believe that those are his only reasons. I control-F'd "Xzavier" in his filter and here's the reasons I found: 1) Xzav lurked before suddenly jumping on him JEEZ THIS IS SCUMMY2) Xzav read him as scum SO DID UMASI3) Xzav hasn't contributed YES HE DID? READ THE ENTIRE XZAV POST WHERE HE ALSO MENTIONS SUPER 4) Xzav lurked and then sheeped thread sentiment by voting for him SHEEPED WHO? UMASI? 5) Gut read CRAZYYYYYYYYY I personally agree with points 3 and 4, that's why I don't like Xzav. I find it hard to believe that you honestly missed all of these posts. I capslocked my response. I quoted all 3 posts of Super about Xzavier You were able to find 5 points? I am having a feeling that you are all-in on this Kirby vs Super lynch? Chrom, you are going to look very bad when Super turns red. You realise that? A Townie realizes it and doesn't care. Mafia would realize it and back off their case. Especially a Day 1 case when it's easy to get away with fuzzy reads and FoS. I agree. That's why I say that it feels like he is going all in right now. Remember there is only 3 scum. 1 down now would be VERY bad. Sponge please read the Super log. Or read the 3 Super posts that I quoted I bolded the parts that Super talks about Xzavier. It's everything. I even quoted your posts ssaying that Super had done nothing till that point. Super did NO READ on xzavier and voted him. While Super his policy is that not voting is ok for day 1. Come on. COME ON.
Dude, I hate Super as pro-town. That's no secret.
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Honestly, I don't get how anyone can defend either Super or Kirby as 'pro town' at this point. The way to win votes is 'sure they're both scummy, but my guy is a bit scummier'.
Once hz and chrom started pitching their guy as 'the other guy is just bad town' they sort of lost me.
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On July 15 2013 07:16 Koshi wrote:Then why is Chroma defending him so hard? He is even making up fucking reasons. Show nested quote +1) Xzav lurked before suddenly jumping on him
2) Xzav read him as scum
3) Xzav hasn't contributed
4) Xzav lurked and then sheeped thread sentiment by voting for him
5) Gut read I am laughing so hard when I read these reasons after reading the super log over and over.
Because he believes very strongly in his read. This is the towniest thing since Lord Patrick Townington went to townville. He doesn't have a self-preservation instinct because he's town, and not under suspicion. He can throw himself around with abandon like this because he has mental freedom scum does not possess.
Attacking Chrom will get you nowhere with me. Focus on the subjects.
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On July 15 2013 07:19 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 06:47 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 15 2013 05:56 hzflank wrote:On July 15 2013 05:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
I'd be on board for a gotard hammer if someone can make a good case that mafia are on this wagon pushing for a mislynch. You don't think that Mafia are on that wagon? From my position you are on the scummy wagon.I am reading Gotard again. I did not think that the cases against him were strong, but on the other hand Gotard's filter after 24 hours was horrible. The problem that I have with reading his more recent posts is that I am struggling to separate an alignment read from a personality read. I think Gotard could very well be scum, but I still think that Super is more likely. If you look at Chrom's defense of Super, almost every point was that it was bad play rather than scum play. When you make that many consecutive defenses and call them all bad play then alarm bells should be ringing. Elaborate on this if you can, hz. Gotard is scummy. Stim is still at least in the top 5 of my scum list. Nightcat is a lurker who just randomly added his vote. Chrom is neutral at best. At best that wagon has 2 scummy, 2 neutral and 2 townie players on it. The other wagon has Umasi, who I think is townie. Xzavier who is neutral (too much lurking, his posts are not good enough to make up for that that much lurking) and Koshi. Some other people have been calling Koshi scum recently, but I have him as neutral.
Mmmmmmmmm nope. I like Chrom's answer better:
On July 15 2013 05:48 Chromatically wrote:
The three scummiest people in the game (Kirby, Koshi, Xzav) are on the Super wagon.
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@ Umasi
@ Rainbows
We three control this lynch. I think everyone else is entrenched (via either conviction or inactivity). If you agree, we need to establish some things between the three of us.
First, do we all agree that both of the current wagons are acceptable lynch candidates?
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On July 15 2013 07:26 Rainbows wrote:
Acceptable yes. Im really unsure of who to vote but super seems best imo.
Both might be town.
You mentioned that, and that's why this is sort of an unholy alliance. Even though the odds are staggeringly in your favor, I would actually be more inclined to believe they were both scum rather than both town. I feel like I have a decent eye for town-on-town crime, although to be fair, kirby and super haven't been sniping at each other NEARLY enough for my taste.
Regardless, this is good news. Now we just need Umasi to confirm he finds both players scummy, and we can decide this lynch.
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@ Superfluous
Please post your reads in the event you are lynched today.
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On July 15 2013 07:37 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 07:24 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
@ Umasi
@ Rainbows
We three control this lynch. I think everyone else is entrenched (via either conviction or inactivity). If you agree, we need to establish some things between the three of us.
First, do we all agree that both of the current wagons are acceptable lynch candidates? Not finished reading, want to reply before I forget Yes, I accept that they are both absolutely acceptable lynch targets
Fantastic. I'm going to give Superfluous a bit more time to post his reads, and then the Tribunal Council To Ensure Daily Lynches can begin deliberations.
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To the rest of y'all, is there anyone else that is okay with lynching either target tonight? I know you may lean one way or another, but to avoid mafia deadline shenanigans that may lead to a No Lynch (or mislynch) day, this would work better with one more person.
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On July 15 2013 07:43 Chromatically wrote:
I would consolidate if it is literally the only way to avoid a no lynch.
Don't worry. You're the bandwagon leader. I don't need your mobility today. Keep on doing you, Chrom.
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On July 15 2013 07:41 Superfluous wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 06:53 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
@Superfluous
Can you post a list of your Town and Scum reads like kirby did in case you die tonight? Town: Chroma Umasi Hurricane (mostly because I really like this post) I did have that post calling you out earlier but you havent done anything similar since. Stimaddict (bad play revealing role but w/e) Jrkirby, though now I would lynch him to save myself seeing as its definitely coming to that. Maf: Xzavier Koshi Insert Lurker here Hzflank (weakest tho) I'll point out again how hard koshi is going on me and in some ways trying to distract from jkirby/discredit chroma. If Either of them flip maf I'd be suspicious of the other, though the same could be said of me and chroma I suppose.
Neat! We have something to talk about. Why do you think hzflank is scum?
Why do you think Koshi is scum?
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On July 15 2013 07:46 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 07:43 Chromatically wrote:
I would consolidate if it is literally the only way to avoid a no lynch. THIS IS BULLSHIT TOWN WE ARE GOING TO GET SO MUCH INFO WHEN WE LYNCH THERE ARE ONLY 3 FUCKING SCUMS. A MISSLYNCH IS NOT BAD. ARE YOU PEOPLE KIDDING ME? WE ALL AGREED THAT LYNCHING WAS GOOD. AND NOW CHROM WANTS TO PROTECT SUPER SO MADLY THAT A NO LYNHC IS OK? WE AGREE THAT THEY BOTH LOOK SCUM. FUCK THIS
Hahaha. Reading comprehension, kids! Learn to love it.
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Chromatically, don't bother responding to that. It's just clutter.
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TRIBUNAL COMMENCE:
I'm leaning Super right now. One tiebreaker is activity level. Kirby has 3 1/2 pages of content vs. Super's 1 1/2.
My reads also line up better with Kirby. Super has some of the easiest, surface-level scum reads in the history of mankind. Guy who poked him early (Xzavier), guy leading his wagon (hzflank), and Lurkers. Not like, actual lurkers, but literally the word 'lurkers'. Didn't even name actual lurkers that he's suspicious of.
The koshi scum read is odd, but I'm willing to chalk that up to a mafia protecting his mafiabro in the event he flips red. If Super were to flip green, this interpretation would be moot.
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On July 15 2013 07:56 Rainbows wrote:
Okay what the fuck is that vote nightcat
What umasi said. Looks like nightcat realized his vote was out-of-date. Didn't raise too many scumbells for me. I'd be more concerned that he's scum trying to get bus cred now that the Almighty Tribunal Of Awesome Lynch Assurance has formed.
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On July 15 2013 07:55 Chromatically wrote:
Wow, look at all the scum resistance to this Super lynch.
Is this a typo, Chrom? Did you mean 'Kirby' lynch? Because I think the Tribunal might establish that there may not be much resistance to lynching either side.
(Which gives credence to Rainbows town-town theory.)
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That'd be really funny. Play with Style seems to be a common meme on TL Mafia. The only thing giving me pause is (META ALERT) Gotard proved in XLII that he's a low postcount Townie who is basically only useful as a pro-town sheep vote. This play is very similar, so arguing that this play is scummy is not a slam dunk for me yet.
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TRIBUNAL ALERT:
Nightcat smells fishy. The early vote on kirby could have been a towncred vote to put distance between them. It's possible he came back and saw a close vote and can't risk being the vote that lynches his buddy now.
It seemed a bit too easy to get votes onto Super. Let's get them onto Kirby now, and continue deliberations.
##unvote
##vote: JrKirby
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ATTENTION THREAD:
The Tribunal has proven it means business. Chromatically, your claim that the votes moved around too easily on Superfluous has been rendered moot.
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On July 15 2013 08:11 Chromatically wrote:
What?
You sarcastically mentioned that you thought the fact that the votes poured in on Super represented little mafia resistance to the lynch (thus indicating a mislynch).
We have proven by getting Kirby up on the block in the span of about 10 seconds that this is not valid reasoning.
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Oh, right. Super still hasn't switched his vote.
Entertaining play.
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EBWOP: Shoutouts to FirmTofu
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On July 15 2013 08:14 Nightcat99 wrote:Show nested quote +TRIBUNAL ALERT:
Nightcat smells fishy. The early vote on kirby could have been a towncred vote to put distance between them. It's possible he came back and saw a close vote and can't risk being the vote that lynches his buddy now.
It seemed a bit too easy to get votes onto Super. Let's get them onto Kirby now, and continue deliberations.
##unvote
##vote: JrKirby i would just like to respond to this since its directed to me, i cant argue about the towncrad vote claim because theres nothing i can say to make you believe other wise but when i came back it was not a close vote, if you check kirby's vote was on 4 with my vote and super is on a 6, and it seems a little odd that you suddenly decided to jump on me for changing my vote because theres already enough vote to lynch either player , regardless where i stand.
Can you make a case defending why you would not vote for JrKirby at this time?
Can you tell me why you think Superfluous is the better lynch target?
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On July 15 2013 08:15 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 08:13 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 15 2013 08:11 Chromatically wrote:
What? You sarcastically mentioned that you thought the fact that the votes poured in on Super represented little mafia resistance to the lynch (thus indicating a mislynch). We have proven by getting Kirby up on the block in the span of about 10 seconds that this is not valid reasoning. No you haven't? You don't honestly think this, right? It's just a small side point, but I was saying that Super is likely a mislynch because of how easily the wagon started and grew. Scum aren't resisting it and scum could have easily hopped on. I'm pretty much the only reason that everyone's not on Super. Your weird stunt doesn't have anything to do with that.
Right. Now apply that logic to the current situation, but input 'Kirby' for 'super', since we just flipped the votes with equal ease.
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On July 15 2013 08:17 Superfluous wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 08:15 Koshi wrote:On July 15 2013 08:14 Superfluous wrote:On July 15 2013 08:06 Koshi wrote:
I am just going to trow this out here. But with a pending superfluous lynch. Do we want to see superfluous roleclaim? If he claims blue we might want to let him stay alive? It is up to scum to kill him tonight? Or not?
I realize fluff is fluff but maybe we want this to happen? That post is so scummy/ baiting. I've clearly demonstrated a basic knowledge of mafia and it goes without saying I would claim if needed/true. Suggesting I role claim gains nothing. Plus, if you thought there was a possibility I was blue, why the fuck would you push for my lynch? Clearly you believe it's a possibility because you suggest it about me but didn't when jkirby was at 6 votes. I actually didn't know kirby was leading atm. I don't understand how this change happened but it happened. When I made the post I was at 7 votes, and I was referring to 15 minutes earlier when Kirby was at 6, not now when kirby is at 6.
So the only reason you voted was to assure a lynch? You find both targets scummy? (Or townie)?
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@WAGONMEN (Mr. Kirby and Mr. Superfluous)
The Grand Tribunal Of Townie Bloodlust has proven that it holds your fate in their hands. Mr. Chromatically and Mr. hzflank have done admiral jobs presenting and defending your cases. But now.... you must deal with us.
Appeal to The Tribunal: defend your innocence, attack your foe, and try give us something to work with, for Pete's sake.
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On July 15 2013 08:21 Xzavier wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 08:17 Umasi wrote:On July 15 2013 08:15 Xzavier wrote:
what could would either of them claiming do? if you claim 15 min before you die your probably still goign to die anyway, its like when in the movies you hold a gun to somebodys head and they start spewing off how they will do anything, give anything, blahblahblah. same principle.
i honestly am so lost right now, i think super is a fine lynch. But im not following this tribunal at all, it appears to have formed during my 25 min game of LoL.. T.T
is the tribunal the hammer that was going to hit gotard really close before the end? the tribunal is OUR GLORIOUS LEADER, Rainbows, and me Basically we will swap votes wherever to prevent no lynch shenaniganry. i like this idea, because the three most active people who i have strong townreads on working together. This is like the anti-scum team with their own KP (actually stealing the towns KP xD) i like the idea of this, im kinda afraid of how quickly it formed right before a deadline, as in my first game of mafia, stupid shit happens when there are 5 posts a minute up till the deadline. apart from that i like it. the leader is hurricane right?
Way to direct the NK, hotshot.
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On July 15 2013 08:24 Xzavier wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 08:21 Nightcat99 wrote:
and i disagree with the role claim because if they are going to die theres no reason for the scum to know we are missing a blue or if there are enough scum vote to save them last sec and switch to someone else that would be worst, cause now they can get 2 people if a 1-2 people switch last moment and suddenly its a mislynch, shits gonna go down. That goes without saying. (i mean, last minute with absolutely shit reason or no reason, hell even a good reason, it would need to be a reason that makes me bow down and worship their scumhunting skills for me to not lynch them the next day, certainly if its a blue mislynch) they would instantly become 90% of what i would talk about the next day. also, if this fucking tribunal is the scumteam, im going to cry myself to sleep tonight, and hope i never wake up.
1-2? Yeah. But we have 3-6 (depending on who you trust).
Regardless, I'm doing some analysis and will post in a second with BIG PLAYS.
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DOUBLE SECRET TRIBUNAL MEETING
Attn: If you are not part of the Incredible Tribunal For Make Great Benefit Lynching Daily, you must stop reading this post now and cover your eyes.
Alright, now that all the legit folks are in here, I think we've gotten some useful information. We've confirmed that we control 4 mobile votes today (this may change in the future). Sponge, Umasi, Rainbows, Nightcat.
In addition, we have two semi-mobile votes in Chromatically (probably) and hzflank (maybe probably), both unconfirmed however. We could go after the scummiest Other. The more I think about Rainbow's 'town-town' claim, the more it seems like a possibility. I'm still leaning Super as scummiest, but we can talk about that after I get thoughts on the following play:
We could totally drop Gotard or Koshi tonight if we wanted.
Koshi is in the 'too scum to be scum' category for me right now. Gonna dive his filter. Gotard is gotard. For right now, I want tribunal thoughts on this play.
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When I say the town-town claim seems possible, I just mean that I don't see any of the cases or support as scummy. Koshi's attack on Chrom was the scummiest thing to come from the Kirby-and-Super shitshow.
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On July 15 2013 08:33 Nightcat99 wrote:
i would like to say that even through i am sticking with my vote i feel the last minute switch from super to jrikrby is a wierd decision because the reason of the lynch switch was completely base on my switch and the reasoning for my switch was explained.i will be honest i am feeling much less resistence for when we are trying to lynch jrkirby then when we are trying to lynch super. Because i feel jrkirby's reasoning that theres no scum team backing him up is legit, since no one has come to his defense from the beginning.
Yeah. It was an arbitrary switch to see if you were mobile. You moved, so that gives us information. It was a reaction-test.
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On July 15 2013 08:33 Umasi wrote:
WHISPER WHISPER
Gotard, I do not think, is the best lynch
Koshi has said some good stuff, said some absolutely shit stuff, and is absolutely going to be incompetent as we get later in the game. I still think this is not town-town.
On July 15 2013 08:34 Xzavier wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 08:31 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
DOUBLE SECRET TRIBUNAL MEETING
Attn: If you are not part of the Incredible Tribunal For Make Great Benefit Lynching Daily, you must stop reading this post now and cover your eyes.
Alright, now that all the legit folks are in here, I think we've gotten some useful information. We've confirmed that we control 4 mobile votes today (this may change in the future). Sponge, Umasi, Rainbows, Nightcat.
In addition, we have two semi-mobile votes in Chromatically (probably) and hzflank (maybe probably), both unconfirmed however. We could go after the scummiest Other. The more I think about Rainbow's 'town-town' claim, the more it seems like a possibility. I'm still leaning Super as scummiest, but we can talk about that after I get thoughts on the following play:
We could totally drop Gotard or Koshi tonight if we wanted.
Koshi is in the 'too scum to be scum' category for me right now. Gonna dive his filter. Gotard is gotard. For right now, I want tribunal thoughts on this play. im worried that this is too big, i liked it when it was just you three, but when you add more you are giving an open invitation to sheep with little to no reason and nothing to lose if its a mislynch, because they were simply following orders. i dont think there is a scum in the core 3, but im super worried that scum can easily tag along and ride the wagon for free.
Good stuff. Let's stick with the wagons we have then.
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On July 15 2013 08:34 jrkirby wrote:
The way this is turning out, I am having major doubts that super is scum. I would much much much rather have gotard or koshi lynch.
Not Umasi and Xzavier? They seem to be more logical targets for you, no?
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Alright, both targets look fine to me. We're coming up on 15 minutes, so lets hear the leanings of the other tribunalmans.
Umasi, Rainbows: Who ya got?
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hz, you okay with this? I hate to break your heart.
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Tribunal stand by for potential super-secret vote switch. Filter diving real quick for something very specific. Odds of finding are quite low, but just in case be ready ~5 minutes.
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On July 15 2013 08:43 Chromatically wrote:I think I would prefer a switch to Koshi right now. Read his filter and look at his opinions on Kirby/Super: Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 03:39 Koshi wrote:
If you don't agree with me that both players look scummy atm but Kirby might be easier to read in Day 2 because he posts more and is more aggressive. Then we don't have much to discuss.
If there are 6 votes on Kirby expect me to give the 7th.
But for now I believe Super is the best choice. It seems like he thinks both are very similar in scumminess. Then, with no reasoning, he accuses me of tunneling, being full of shit, and starts attacking Super and hard defending Kirby. He also gave this nonsense reason for a town read on Kirby: Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 08:02 Koshi wrote:On July 14 2013 07:22 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 14 2013 07:11 Koshi wrote:
@hzflank
That is a really impressing post. I would give you a cookie but I will give you this instead.
##Vote: Superfluous
I also like the kirby case but kirby hasn't posted in the last 20 hours. So I am reluctant to put my vote on him. Kirby has proven that he can make big analytical posts or at least is willing to do so. He has proven that he can pick up on 1 scummier sentence in a big convincing pro town post. So I would like to give kirby the chance to do this before I put my vote on him. What?! Find one. Now. Please. The joking one. I didn't say it was good. I am just saying that he is willing to do so.
By this logic, he is protecting Kirby, no? Making both scum? Why the rush to lynch Koshi over Kirby?
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EBWOP: Derp, NOW I see what you're saying.
I think everyone has a scumread on Koshi, right?
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But... but... Xzavier.... BIG PLAYS!
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And nightcat, unless NC and Koshi are scum
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This game just got awesome.
Alright, I've seen enough. JrKirby is the tribunal's lynch target tonight.
Kirby, any updated reads you can give us would be helpful. I promise to filter dive you post-mortem.
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I wanna go Superfluous too.
Rainbows, Nightcat, confirm you are in the thread right now.
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I wanna go Superfluous too.
Rainbows, Nightcat, confirm you are in the thread right now.
BOLD FOR IMPORTANT
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ahahaha StiM. If NC and Rainbows post in the next 60 seconds, we go on Super.
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Alright, we doin' kirby then. We'll get Super tomorrow.
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No. This game is particularly full of AWESOME
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On July 15 2013 08:57 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 08:56 Umasi wrote:
STIM, THE VOICE OF THE ANGELS
KIRBY
IT
FUCKING
IS
WHAM BAM SLAM DONT !!!! LISTEN TO HURRICANE. PLEASE UMAS Fuck punctuation.
Keep the votes steady. Kirby lynch tonight. Super tomorrow.
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On July 15 2013 08:58 jrkirby wrote:
Ok, Gotard is an excellent lynch target tomorrow. I think chrom should only be lynched after a scum is found, but maybe checked by cop.
I have less of a feeling about koshi, umasi, super.
Xzavier is decent, but not the best lynch.
Chrom and super should be lynched together should one of them be scum by flip or cop check.
That's the best I got, GG guys.
<3 thanks!
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Everybody get up
It's time to slam now
We got a real jam going down
Welcome to Alakaslam
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Also, thank god no modkills. We got us a real game, folks.
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Onegu and Slam give reads when you're caught up on the thread. I'm probably out for a bit (as I expect many people are).
Day 1 mislynch is far from the end of the world. And that Day 1 discussion was juicy as hell. We're still in this thing, folks.
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On July 15 2013 23:46 Nightcat99 wrote:
I just woke up but i have a question i been thinking about.
Regardless that there is a mislynch, do you think the scum will kill one of the tribunal tonight to ensure that theres less voting power tonight, and if none of them die tonight does that make a the tribunal suspicious?
For the record, the Tribunal is not a persistent entity. It was formed based on the flexible votes for the Day. Tomorrow, if it is necessary, it will be composed of an entirely new set of people (which may or may not include me). The group is valuable because it has vote mobility. It was necessary because Town needed to ensure a lynch.
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On July 16 2013 01:43 hzflank wrote:Play by play starting at Rainbows case on Gotard. I will spoiler the first part because it is a wall of text, but I do think that is an interesting read. + Show Spoiler +Rainbows thinks that Gotard is scum. Koshi wants to lynch Super. Sponge thinks that Super is lurking. Koshi says that he is going to sheep as he has no targets to lynch (contradicts Koshi's earlier post about lynching Super?).
Rainbows still wants to lynch Gotard. Sponge thinks that Gotard is scum. Sponge thinks that Super is scum. Super thinks that Kirby might be 3P. Umasi votes for Super. Super thinks that hzflank and Xzavier are scum. Hzflank thinks Gotard is scummy. Umasi thinks that Xzav is town. Hzflank thinks that Super is scum. Chrom thinks that Umasi is town. Chrom thinks that Kirby and Xzavier are scum. Umasi thinks that Super is scum.
Chrom makes case on Kirby. Umasi thinks that Super is scum, Kirby second scum. Sponge thinks that Kirby is scum. Hzflank makes case against Super. Chrom begins to defend Super. Koshi votes for Super. Umasi thinks that Super is scum. Umasi does not think Gotard should be lynched today. Hzflank thinks Kirby is scum, but less chance than Super. Rainbows thinks Gotard is scum. Umasi wants the wagons to be between Kirby and Super.
Sponge thinks that Kirby, Super and Gotard all look scummy. Koshi thinks the same, but Super most scum. Xzavier thinks that Super is scum. Koshi defends Kirby. Gotatd votes for Kirby. Umasi says that he is willing to switch his vote to Kirby (worded a lot like he is going to switch his vote once Kirby comes back?)
Koshi is the first to mention consolidating votes, says that both Super and Kirby are perfect targets (perfect targets?!).
Koshi repeats that we should pick one of those 2 targets. Koshi thinks that Super is more likely scum. Kirby thinks Gotard is scum. Kirby thinks Xzavier is scum. Stim thinks that Koshi is scum. Rainbows thinks Gotard is scum but unvotes him as he thinks that Super is the better lynch. Koshi wants people to switch their votes to Super.
Umasi is unsure of whether he wants to lynch Super or Kirby. Super thinks that Kirby is town. Rainbows thinks that Super is scum. Xzavier votes for Super. Rainbows does not care which of Super and Kirby are lynched. Rainbows thinks that Gotard is scum, but is null on Kirby and Super. Stim thinks that Kirby is scum. Nightcat votes for Kirby. Current situation: Kirby looks like he will be lynched. Umasi considers switching his vote to Kirby. Xzavier is willing to switch his vote to secure a lynch. Rainbows thinks that Kirby is town, even though he is currently voting for him. Rainbows repeats that he thinks Kirby is town, and adds that he thinks Super might be town also. Umasi thinks Super is scum. Rainbows thinks that Kirby is town. Sponge unvotes Kirby, he thinks Kirby and Super are both scum but does not want anyone else putting the hammer vote on kirby (What?!). I thought it was valuable for Town to control the lynch. I wanted to undermine the mafia's ability to switch votes at the last second.Rainbows says that he is going to vote for Super, putting Super in the lead. Sponge asks to work together with Umasi and Rainbows, as he thinks that together they control the lynch. Rainbows thinks that Super and Kirby should both be lynched on days 1 and 2. (Even though he thinks that they are both town?) Umasi and Rainbows have both agreed to work with Sponge. Umasi says that Super and Kirby are both acceptable lynch targets. Rainbows wants to lynch Gotard. Sponge wants to lynch Super. Nightcat vores for Super. At this point Super is likely to be lynched. Umasi wants Super to be lynched. Sponge wants Kirby to be lynched. I had already established that I (as well as all of the members of the council) was okay with either a Super or Kirby (or lurker) lynch, as long as there WAS a lynch. Rainbows wants Kirby and Super to role claim. Umasi does not want to lynch Gotard. Sponge, Umasi, Rainbows and Nightcat all vote for Kirby. Kirby is lynched. Will do quick conclusion now with more in depth to follow: There was far too much sheeping. Half the town was completely willing to just sheep, and this started a long time before the deadline. Sponge basically controlled 4 votes in the end. There are some glaring inconsistencies that I need to question individuals about. Which will follow in an hour or so.
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On July 16 2013 01:57 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 01:53 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 15 2013 23:46 Nightcat99 wrote:
I just woke up but i have a question i been thinking about.
Regardless that there is a mislynch, do you think the scum will kill one of the tribunal tonight to ensure that theres less voting power tonight, and if none of them die tonight does that make a the tribunal suspicious? For the record, the Tribunal is not a persistent entity. It was formed based on the flexible votes for the Day. Tomorrow, if it is necessary, it will be composed of an entirely new set of people (which may or may not include me). The group is valuable because it has vote mobility. It was necessary because Town needed to ensure a lynch. The problem is you mostly controled it, and didnt let it move of of what looks like 2 town wagons.
I'm going to reply to your train-of-thought during the daytime. For now, I want to see you scumhunt (even if that target is me.)
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On July 16 2013 01:14 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 05:13 Rainbows wrote:On July 15 2013 05:07 Rainbows wrote:
Not really. I phone post 90% of the time so it's hard to sit down and make a case of it.
I feel like either of them could be scum. Super just toqnreads everyone when as town you should be suspect of everyone I lied this describes Gotard better. My votes on super but I really dont care who's lynched between the two. #Scummylogic How come I got crushed for this but he hardly gets any heat?
When did you get crushed for this? In another game?
There's a significant difference between Majority lynch and Plurality lynch. One of which is that people have to be more flexible and accepting of multiple lynch options to ensure we avoid a No Lynch.
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On July 16 2013 01:59 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 01:58 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 16 2013 01:57 Onegu wrote:On July 16 2013 01:53 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 15 2013 23:46 Nightcat99 wrote:
I just woke up but i have a question i been thinking about.
Regardless that there is a mislynch, do you think the scum will kill one of the tribunal tonight to ensure that theres less voting power tonight, and if none of them die tonight does that make a the tribunal suspicious? For the record, the Tribunal is not a persistent entity. It was formed based on the flexible votes for the Day. Tomorrow, if it is necessary, it will be composed of an entirely new set of people (which may or may not include me). The group is valuable because it has vote mobility. It was necessary because Town needed to ensure a lynch. The problem is you mostly controled it, and didnt let it move of of what looks like 2 town wagons. I'm going to reply to your train-of-thought during the daytime. For now, I want to see you scumhunt (even if that target is me.) Are you caught up on the thread?
Yes, I was reading it all last night. I didn't want to interrupt you or Alakaslam, because I wanted your thoughts to develop organically. I have responses to you for Day 2, and I expect we will have a very interesting conversation.
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On July 16 2013 02:01 Onegu wrote:
Last newbie game as scum I said I didnt care who was lynched day 1.
Last newbie game was plurality. This is majority. It is a significant difference.
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On July 16 2013 02:04 Chromatically wrote:
No, people who have no preference either way are still very scummy.
Its one thing to consolidate if necessary, its another to not care at all
I'll put it another way:
Sometimes, (especially late in the day) Townies can care more about making sure a lynch happens (since there are so many entrenched votes) more than making giant cases on why their #1 scum read should be lynched over their #2.
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On July 16 2013 02:04 Chromatically wrote:
No, people who have no preference either way are still very scummy.
Its one thing to consolidate if necessary, its another to not care at all
OH, I get what you guys are saying. When asked, he should have an opinion as to which one is scummier. No skin off his back to just talk about it, especially if asked.
You guys are right, I think I am wrong (or talking about something different).
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On July 16 2013 02:08 Onegu wrote:
No meta updates on me and alakaslam?
Sure! I can do that! (Promise you won't get mad...)
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Context from Page 13:
"Upon realizing the importance of identifying my own biases, I am hereby disclosing everything I think I know now. If you catch me treating you based on any of the following, ask me to support it with analysis from this game if you feel I'm being unfair or displaying bias: (quicklist)"
Onegu: no Town-side data available, as scum- willing to be generous with reads and assessments of fellow players, reacts poorly to pressure (concedes or makes ill-conceived claims in the interest of self-preservation), picks on lurkers as scum, hybrid activity level (active when able, often has legitimate real-world priorities, but always contributes to the game in meaningful ways)
Alakaslam: chaotic poster. High activity level. high amount of fluff posted. insecure with reads, but very capable of independent analysis. has a hard time getting other townies on board with cases / reluctant to post full cases. reacts quickly to developments in the thread. Personally, I have an extremely difficult time reading Alakaslam, so I will probably leave it to the rest of the players to help me figure him out.
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On July 16 2013 02:08 hzflank wrote:@Koshi: How did you get from Super being scummy to wanting to sheep because you have 'no targets that need to get lynched now'? Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 02:42 Koshi wrote:
Super scummy is putting words in my mouth. I don't like that. Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 04:14 Koshi wrote:
I would sheep. I have no targets that need to get lynched now. Why did Kirby and Super both look like perfect targets? What specifically made Kirby become a bad target when you later defended him? How did you get such a solid town-read on Sponge and Umasi that you were willing to just sheep them? You were so sure of your town reads that you even encouraged others to sheep them. Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 00:10 Koshi wrote:
Guys, we need to get our shit together if we want a lynch. Don't forget we need at least 7 people on 1 guy. Both look perfect targets, let's try to come to a consensus now so that the more inactive people can follow us if they pop in.
I would say that Sponge and Umasi try to work this out and they give us final target? It seems that Chroma made the kirby case and that hzflank made the super case.
Me, StiM and all others should FOLLOW lead. With more than seven hours until the deadline, why should everyone need to pick one of two targets? Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 00:13 Koshi wrote:
When you follow lead you should also give own reasoning obviously. But at this point we just need to pick one of these 2 targets.
I'd like to add to this. The last line of the second-to-last quote leaped off the page at me. Koshi and StiM were actually the two guys who were most resistant to following the lead of the Tribunal. Seems odd to fight his own advice when the opportunity actually presented itself.
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On July 16 2013 02:39 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 02:15 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Context from Page 13:
"Upon realizing the importance of identifying my own biases, I am hereby disclosing everything I think I know now. If you catch me treating you based on any of the following, ask me to support it with analysis from this game if you feel I'm being unfair or displaying bias: (quicklist)"
Onegu: no Town-side data available, as scum- willing to be generous with reads and assessments of fellow players, reacts poorly to pressure (concedes or makes ill-conceived claims in the interest of self-preservation), picks on lurkers as scum, hybrid activity level (active when able, often has legitimate real-world priorities, but always contributes to the game in meaningful ways)
Alakaslam: chaotic poster. High activity level. high amount of fluff posted. insecure with reads, but very capable of independent analysis. has a hard time getting other townies on board with cases / reluctant to post full cases. reacts quickly to developments in the thread. Personally, I have an extremely difficult time reading Alakaslam, so I will probably leave it to the rest of the players to help me figure him out. Good luck to anyone with alakaslam. And to be fair my coach mentioned concedeing in scum qt before I thought about it.
Most of the book on you is moot anyway because you're in such a unique position: your entire meta (not counting potentially NWM) is scum, and I (as well as most of the town, i think) have a strong Town read on you/StiM right now. You're a blank slate, but it is comforting to me personally that you're not picking on lurkers or confirming people as 'noob town' as you did in your scum games.
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On July 16 2013 04:45 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 01:57 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
I thought it was valuable for Town to control the lynch. I wanted to undermine the mafia's ability to switch votes at the last second.
That's fine, but also very risky on day 1. I had town reads on Umasi and Rainbows too, but I did not trust them. It might be worth discussing how to avoid this in future. For example, perhaps we could ask everyone to lock in their votes an hour before deadline, and no one is allowed to change as long as there is a majority. If there is not a majority then it gives us say 45 minutes to discuss it, and then we lock in a lynch with 15 minutes to go. Thoughts?
This would be the ideal solution. I didn't see a majority at the time of the Tribunal's formation, so I decided to make a play to ensure there was a lynch. Your proposal is a better option.
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On July 16 2013 06:33 Koshi wrote:My case on kirby super has always been that kirby was worth saving more than super. There was a post that I made during lynch that was titles "Why we should save kirby over super" If you compare what Superfluous did with what Xzavier did, or what Kirby defense Kirby case did. Kirby on Day 2 or Super on Day 2? I wanted Kirby. The only thing that you can blame me for is being too fast on the Kirby or Super lynch. I was already pushing one of those 2 around 6 hours before deadline? But I thought I was 4 hours at that time.
I can vouch for the bolded, actually. I also thought the deadline was a couple hours before it actually was until the mod posted otherwise.
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On July 16 2013 07:03 Xzavier wrote:i remember asking people to check the Tribunal after it was just the three of them, what i mostly wanted to know was who tried to join them, nobody came out and directly said as such, but when the list of votes they controlled came out somebody knew was on the list: Nightcat, a hardcore lurker at the time. now he was not invited to join this team, i dont recall him asking to either, i just remember him following the wishes of it.(However indirectly as it may be) This blinks scummy on my scumdar. Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 08:19 Nightcat99 wrote:can you make a case defending why you would not vote for JrKirby at this time?
Can you tell me why you think Superfluous is the better lynch target? no i cannot make a case to not vote for jrkirby because i stated that i want to make sure to have 1 person lynch, when i came back it seem super was the more likely target but since you guys disagree. ##UNVOTE ##VOTE JRKIRBY being given the option of switching his vote for a simple reason of "since you guys disagree" and not making a case or updating any reads is bad, because its a super easy for scum to hide without drawing any attention to himself. his entire reason for voting is "the person whos more likely to be lynched" thats a roundabout way of describing a scums voting pattern. they want to blend in and not stick out. So throwing his vote early and the person more likely to be lynched is a great way to lurk successfully.
My scumdar says Scum on nightcat right now______ now im happy with how hurricane reacted to me saying keep your circle small and that further solidifies my stupidly massive town read on him(sponge) (scum would want to try to control as many votes as possible, they would already control the "holes" in there town circle) so the people saying that one of the three is scum, its not him: The points brought up against rainbow has totally shattered the confidence of my town read on him, his actions are nonsensical. I think that Usami is town still as he has played a far more pro-town game and has cut out almost all of his spam (from games iv previously played with him) while i know meta is bad to use for a case in newbie games, but i feel like a scum wouldnt try so hard to improve his town play as they would replicate it. This is another reason for my Umasi read after all of that. if we are assuming scum tried to get one player onto the "tribunal" they were either succesful and got Rainbows on it, or used it as an excuse for nightcat to sheep his vote.
Good analysis, but I don't think Scum tried to get one of their own onto the Tribunal. That would only make sense if it were a Scum-Town lynch. I'm leaning toward thinking Super was Town, which makes yesterday a Town-Town lynch. Why would scum care how we shuffled our votes on the titanic? They're just happy a lynch is happening.
To me, apathy yesterday would be a much stronger correlation with scumminess (a point that can be taken in tandem with your analysis).
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I'd like to hear people's thoughts on a matter regarding last night's Near-Lynch of Superfluous:
Superfluous' vote stayed on Xzavier all day, even in the face of his own impending lynch. Any sane person looking to save themselves would have put that vote onto Kirby at some point late in the day, whether they were Town or Scum. I've tried to logic it out, but I can't come up with anything that seem plausible.
Can anyone come up with reasons for Town and / or for Scum to behave like this?
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I'm demoting Superfluous to 'Lurker' until he proves me otherwise.
Hint: You don't want to be a Lurker.
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On July 15 2013 23:46 Nightcat99 wrote:
I just woke up but i have a question i been thinking about.
Regardless that there is a mislynch, do you think the scum will kill one of the tribunal tonight to ensure that theres less voting power tonight, and if none of them die tonight does that make a the tribunal suspicious?
Now that we're past the deadline, I want to point out that this post scared the crap out of me. This just screams 'Please help me direct my NK, guys' to me.
The mafia in this game may be scared of the Tribunal (which isn't even a real thing, as I've explained) if Umasi, Rainbows and Myself all actually happen to be town.
I was sad that Chrom posted his huge (compelling and legitimate) case on Nightcat as I was planning to pressure him hard after the deadline tonight / early Day 2. I will still do so if I don't die tonight. But if my clues from Nightcat are correct, I may be the NK target.
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Getting some thoughts out while I can. Sorry if this post lacks direction, but I've been limiting the content of my posting during night-time to deny mafia sensitive information. I think everyone should be looking to make a post similar to what Chromatically posted here:
On July 16 2013 05:09 Chromatically wrote:Okay, here's what I've got. I can't be here at deadline so I'm going to post it now. Scum are in the group of Xzav, Rainbows, Nightcat, Gotard, Super. Everyone else is too town. Koshi is town. He's posting too much and drawing too much attention to be mafia. I thought it was weird how he changed from "we should follow others" to a STRONG Super read, but if you look at his filter it feels very natural. He gradually moves and becomes more and more entrenched as time goes along, which is pretty town. Scum would be much more likely to just say "I think Super is scum" and then stay on his lynch and push it a little. There's no reason to do this and draw all that attention as scum when you could easily just artificially put a vote on Super. There's also a little bit of "too mental to be mafia" with his self vote stunt. Martyring stuff like that isn't necessarily townie, but it would just be a REALLY bold move as mafia. His pressure on me before and after the lynch, and his general actions after the lynch are townie. He's been hardcore pushing his read on me, and what he's saying makes sense from a town POV (for the most part). He's mostly tunneling me, which would be possible to fake as scum, but he's a central figure in the discussion now and it doesn't seem like scum at all. Super still feels townieish to me. It's mostly a gut read, but his posting feels open and honest to me. He's given some reads at this point that feel natural to me. I don't think that scum would randomly start talking about the cop like he did. I also think that yesterday was town-town wagons because of the general amount of apathy and unjustified voting that went around. Xzavier just hasn't done anything to make me feel that he's town. I hate that he gave a really long list of reads and didn't actually come to any conclusions on whether people were town or not, the entire purpose of a list of reads. The rest of his posting actually looks fine to me though. He's mostly here by process of elimination. Rainbows' big problem is his apathy about the lynch. hz's already pointed it out, but it makes no sense from a town perspective. First, he posts this: Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 06:24 Rainbows wrote:
Okay so here's my thing.
Kirby is town. His list post and recent activity feels townie.
Super might be scum. Lynch him. But I think both might be town here.
If I'm right I believe Koshi/Gotard/plus one lurker are scumteam.
Id love to explain but again, working atm. Im trying to shoot off what im thinking as we go but it sucks i cant quote here. Will probably be voting super again later.
"Both might be town, but Super is scummier."Then this: Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 07:32 Rainbows wrote:
I feel as if we should lynch both days 1 and 2. This doesn't make sense with what he just said at all. He then sheeps onto the Kirby wagon with no resistance at all. He doesn't even protest at all. Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 03:58 Rainbows wrote:
Hey guys.
By the end of Day 1 I thought both super and Kirby were probably town and wanted to lynch one because nobody wanted to lynch Gotard. Just because I think they might be town doesn't mean they shouldn't be lynched. I don't know their alignment, nor does any other townie. I'd have preferred to lynch somebody else but even with the Tribunal shit going down it didn't look like It'd happen.
So, I gave very little shits who was lynched. It's day 1. Tomorrow shit gets real.
If I were scum I'd know the alignments of both these guys and have a strong stance and just never really waver from it. Hz, I'm blatantly thinking about the game and trying to figure out who was town/scum. I thought Kirby was prolly town, yes, but i don't know he's town. Super was scummier objectively imo, but it seemed a lot like he just played 'follow the cop' a lot on epicmafia or something. I jumped around terribly. It doesn't mean I'm mafia -- it means I don't know wtf anyone is in this game.
It would have been hell of a lot less suspicious to just jump on either candidate (provided super is town as well) and just sit there.
It is possible that it comes from town, yes, but that doesn't remove the scumminess of it. If he thought that Kirby had a better chance of flipping town, I would expect ANY townie to give at least minimal resistance. No resistance was given at all. Also, where on earth did this attitude go? Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 07:29 Rainbows wrote:
I demolished a game as scum and troll claimed cop and ppl still believed me. my first town game i called out scum d1 ezpz. Last game i had 2 of 3 scum on my list of 3, but nobody believed me.
thats my history. He went from "calling out scum d1 ez" to "I gave very little shits who was lynched, it's day 1, I don't know wtf anyone is in this game" when he was pressured about it. Gotard has already been talked about a lot. His problem is that he gives out WAY to many townreads and, more importantly, defends too many people. For example, the Stim thing. He first posts this about Stim: But then when I talk to him about it, here's what he says: Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 20:51 Gotard wrote:
Because it's obvious that he's mad that you think that he's mafia. I don't see any reasoning behind his posts except for being mad. Why would he write posts like that if he's mafia? Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 21:35 Gotard wrote:
But there was no reason for him to get mad if he's mafia. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 22:41 Gotard wrote:
Yeah he looks bad or i should say useless for town. But you need to ask yourself "What would he gain with posts like that as mafia?". Bad town not mafia. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 22:52 Gotard wrote:
So what he need to do to prove himself innocence? You are tunneling him too hard. You need to see the difference between someone being bad and scummy. I don't see any reason to rage like that if you are mafia. Why didn't he mention any of this in his original post? Why is he so confident that Stim is town if his reason is that "It would be too easy if he's mafia"? This whole time, I was explaining why it would be beneficial for Stim to ragequit, be he was ADAMANT that Stim was town. He was extremely, unusually confident in this townread for no reason. He also defended me and Umasi from Koshi a little for no reason. He then sheeped onto Kirby with a little justification, and then sailed through the lynch. Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 02:44 Gotard wrote:On July 15 2013 07:46 Koshi wrote:On July 15 2013 07:43 Chromatically wrote:
I would consolidate if it is literally the only way to avoid a no lynch. THIS IS BULLSHIT TOWN WE ARE GOING TO GET SO MUCH INFO WHEN WE LYNCH THERE ARE ONLY 3 FUCKING SCUMS. A MISSLYNCH IS NOT BAD. ARE YOU PEOPLE KIDDING ME? WE ALL AGREED THAT LYNCHING WAS GOOD. AND NOW CHROM WANTS TO PROTECT SUPER SO MADLY THAT A NO LYNHC IS OK? WE AGREE THAT THEY BOTH LOOK SCUM. FUCK THIS Getting mad after misreading. Emotional plays like that indicates bad town to me. Unless he wants to fake being mad after I defended Stim. His case on Koshi called him "bad town" (...) instead of mafia, so why post it at all? Town is looking to find mafia. If he's going to case Koshi without actually thinking he's mafia, then he's just posting for the sake of posting - aka scum. Nightcat is who I'd really like to lynch tomorrow. His posting is essentially all fluff. Look at this post for example: Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 07:30 Nightcat99 wrote:
Just want to give an update on my situation, I am quiet busy today but i will catch up on everything before the first day ends. Since I will be home on Sunday about 2 pm est as long as the plane doesn't screw me over again.
I would like to vote after I reread everything again that,s nt on my tiny phone screen but as far as stim's situation , I feel that he's either a bad mafia or a angry townie , so either way not worth a vote now because now everyone will put an watchful eye on him. This is pretty much the only read he's given apart from just sheeping the wagons (and a random town read), but it says literally nothing at all. He comes in a while after Stim has stopped being a topic of discussion and gives his thoughts as "he's either town or mafia" (like everyone else thought at that time). And then doesn't vote him of course because no one else is. He randomly votes Kirby with no explanation, saying he'll explain later, but then he switches onto Super with literally NO explanation at all. Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 07:54 Nightcat99 wrote:
hi guys i just got back home and i am reading through the filters for jrkiby and super, i might have mis judge jirkiby plus it seems like he wont get enough vote to be lynch, since i am a supporter of lynch one person a day i am going to jump on the super wagon for now but i will read through everything first and i will difently till the end of the voting period, so i will be able to read any message from now.
I also wanted to apoloygize for my absents, i really dont go on trips that often and from the one this game was looking, i wasnt expecting it to start before i come back, but i will be here everyday from now one and be much more active.
#unvote jrkirby
#vote: superfluous He doesn't even say that one of the cases convinced him, it's just that "I might have misjudged Kirby" with no reasoning why. The votes were 5-4 at the time in favor of Super, so the "consolidation" reason is quite obviously made up. He later sheeps the "tribunal" in switching back to Kirby, but offers no resistance at all. Despite wanting to lynch Super for unknown reasons, he doesn't try to convince anyone to vote him. What really tipped me off to him was what he posted right before the night post came up. Sadly, it was edited out, but here's essentially what it said: Why on EARTH wouldn't you post that BEFORE the deadline instead? If you honestly think that, you should try to get people to switch off of Kirby. The way he posted it, however, the only explanation is that he's trying to distance himself from the lynch by showing that he wasn't really in support of it. Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 09:26 Nightcat99 wrote:
Superfluous (4): hzlank, Koshi, Xzavier, jrkirby
jrkirby (7): StiMaDDict, Chromatically, Gotard, Hurricane Sponge, umasi, Rainbows, nightcat99
Xzavier (1): Superfluous
first of all, theres got to be some scum that jump on the jrkirby wagon because he was super helpful and its a good move to have him removed. super's vote on xzavier made no sense that wouldn't change anything, stim's last mintue vote.. i dotn even know whos playing but if it was stim then that last minute post seemed a bit mroe townie then scum. i dont feel like hurricane and umasi is scum but gotard and chrom is someone we shall look at . and about the votes that stayed on super.
those are more likely to be townie then not. If he was super helpful, why wouldn't you resist his lynch? Why wouldn't you talk about this before the lynch actually occured? More importantly, he doesn't even have a reason why he was "super helpful" apart from the fact that he was "active". I don't know about you, but I don't consider people to be "super helpful" if they're active right before they get lynched. This just reads like more distancing: "Kirby was SUPER helpful, I didn't REALLY support his lynch".
Now, I may not agree 100% with all of cchrom's reads (a lot of them do line up), but that's not what's important. For you guys who are getting frustrated that we're accusing you of not scumhunting: That is scumhunting at its finest. If everyone posted one Last Will-type post like that behind the Night Action deadline, but before the NK, Town would benefit greatly.
I'm glad we got Alakaslam and Onegu to replace in for the inactives. These are two extremely active, creative, and (in my opinion) personable players of the newbie game. I generally disagree with Alakaslam's reads, but we have all of Day 2 to talk about it. He was using gut reactions and misinterpreting a LOT of stuff that went down. I'll probably have to make two mega-posts (one for him and one for o negu) to engage each in conversation about their catch-up posts. Regardless, it's great they're active, and I really hope Onegu doesn't have to eat his tablet tonight.
If anyone has any questions about the Tribunal thing, PLEASE direct them to me as soon as possible. I feel like I have a unique perspective, and as such, have unique reads on Rainbows and Umasi. In addition, the vote mobility we established should prove illuminating once flips start coming in. I'm posting a bit frantically right now because I think Onegu is going to eat his tablet, so pplease let me know if you need my insight on anything specific.
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OR vig. I'd be terrified if there was a SK in a newbie game.
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Koshi looked scummy to a lot of people. I imagine some hero vig tried to make big plays.
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Holy shit. SK in a newbie game.
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Alright, Onegu. I guess I can start refuting your 'case' now. Where do you want me to begin?
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On July 16 2013 09:30 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 09:29 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Koshi looked scummy to a lot of people. I imagine some hero vig tried to make big plays. Rainbows also looked scummy to a lot of people. How do you know that the scum did not kill Koshi?
Really?
Koshi was one of the scummiest looking players by town consensus. He'd be way easier to mislynch, and was not helping town discussion. I wouldn't have been scared of him ferreting out mafia as scum at all.
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On July 16 2013 09:36 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 09:35 Onegu wrote:On July 16 2013 09:30 hzflank wrote:On July 16 2013 09:29 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Koshi looked scummy to a lot of people. I imagine some hero vig tried to make big plays. Rainbows also looked scummy to a lot of people. How do you know that the scum did not kill Koshi? Its not likely because scum do not want to NK people that have a high chance to be lynched. Do you think that Koshi had a much higher chance of being lynched than Rainbows? I have Rainbows as more scummy as Koshi, as you can see in my pre day post (2 scum, 2 most scummy neutral, 2 most town).
Well we were all wrong, in any case. They were both town.
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On July 16 2013 09:37 hzflank wrote:
Chrom also had Rainbows as more scum in his pre-day post. And Sponge has Chrom as town.
Because I have to be in lock-step with all of my town reads on their scum reads, right?
Where's your head at right now, hz? You're not making sense.
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On July 16 2013 09:41 hzflank wrote:
When I got over the shock of seeing the second kill, I had no idea which kill was made by scum and which kill was made by the SK. You seemed to know.
Hey, I could be wrong. But based on my reads, that's what I figured. I'm not obsessing over it, because I don't think that information is relevant, is it?
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On July 16 2013 09:42 Nightcat99 wrote:
well as i stated before i think the scum would try to break up the tribunal if there is one thats form by 3 townie so i think rainbow was kill by scum, what i dont understand is why rainbow , because he seems to be the least active and is just following along with what you guys decide.
Yeah, it's a weird NK target. I'm not complaining though, because I didn't die and they hit sort of a Yolo Townie that a couple people were apparently suspicious of. Honestly, I think Onegu's pressure on my last night (and my restraint in answering him) might have saved me.
Onegu's pressure might have convinced the Mafia team that I could be lynched tomorrow (3 mafia votes tagging along to Onegu's nomination). So I guess, weirdly... Thanks for the FoS, Onegu. And now how may I address your concern so we can get you on the right path?
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On July 16 2013 09:46 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 09:43 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 16 2013 09:41 hzflank wrote:
When I got over the shock of seeing the second kill, I had no idea which kill was made by scum and which kill was made by the SK. You seemed to know. Hey, I could be wrong. But based on my reads, that's what I figured. I'm not obsessing over it, because I don't think that information is relevant, is it? Sure it's relevant. The first thing you thought was that Koshi was not killed by scum. It looks very much like you know who the scum killed.
My scumdar is blinking pretty loudly now. HZ is pursuing a line of thought that isn't relevant to the thread (it's only relevant because he thinks I have knowledge of it). I explained myself fully, and he's not dropping it. This seems like scum trying to derail the thread.
hz, give me a reason that in a vacuum, knowledge of which faction took out whom is valuable, if you wish to pursue this issue.
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On July 16 2013 09:51 hzflank wrote:
Because if you know which faction took out whom then you must be scum.
And if I have a theory of it? What does that tell us?
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This is good. It looks like scum is taking Onegu's FoS and running with it.
Going to dive hz's filter now.
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Onegu, I'm repeating this now so it will hopefully sink in by the time the lynch comes around.
I believe it is currently the Mafia's plan to take your case and parlay it into a mislynch. Once I refute your case, please don't be overwhelmed by confirmation bias of random people coming out of the woodwork agreeing with you. They are likely scum.
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On July 16 2013 09:58 hzflank wrote:
So you suddenly think I am scum because I caught your slip?
If you think that's a slip, I guess that's your right. I thought you were a better player, so the more reasonable explanation to me at this point is that you're the SK (omg you slipped because you knew it was SK and not vig after the kill) or scum than town.
Although it looks like Onegu is going to be in full tunnel mode despite the obvious flaws in his train-of-thought during the downtime.
On July 15 2013 10:13 Onegu wrote:Sorry hope you guus dont mind if I post as I go, some of it may have been addressed already but I want to give my take like it just happend. I would have been all over the stim lynch. I really want to lynch all liars. Then hurricane says Show nested quote +Immediately, the first thing I thought of was that there is no way in hell the scum QT would let him continue ranting and raving like this. They would have told him immediately to chill out and claim he was joking too, or something. Bolding because this is the first real revelation I've had on this case. There is no way you can know this my first game sometimes I would ask a question and not get a reponse for hours, so there is no way you should ever make this assumption.
It was unique analysis that I was bringing to the table. I would assume scum would be very active in the early stages of the game, laying plans and setting out to plot our demise. I don't think it's unreasonable to speculate in this manner, especially considering Onegu can confirm that I was right in my read (StiM / Onegu is not scum). At the least it's independent analysis and a null read. I'm actually pretty proud of that point.
On July 15 2013 11:04 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 03:21 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 17:01 Umasi wrote:
why is me thinking he's slightly towny a big deal though? I wouldn't say it's a big deal. I just wanted to see what evidence you had gathered to make your read, because it's useful for the town if you can help us identify Chrom as town. @Chrom: + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 19:17 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +@Chrom: Can you explain what this post means? On July 13 2013 13:23 Chromatically wrote:
If everyone who just randomly popped out to soft call me sum could actually give their opinions on the situation, that'd be great. I also have a nitpick with this post: On July 13 2013 14:04 Chromatically wrote:
Yes, we'll technically never be able to totally disprove the possibility that Stim is town. It's just far less likely. Look at what Stim has done.
Lie about his anger
Town motivation: none
Scum motivation: screwed up the explanation because the anger was faked in the first place
Martyr
Town motivation: none, far more likely that he just explains
Scum motivation: knows he can't explain, so he acts emotional to get people to switch I feel like the anger was definitely real, and StiM was trying play play Mr. Cool Cat by claiming that he was really in control the whole time, and just pretended to be angry. Still not clear what that motivation could have been, but the above 2x2 leaves out some key points and I feel you're making a bit more assumptions that you usually do... Several people suddenly posted to tell Stim that I could be scum, and then didn't actually give an opinion on Stim. It was really wierd. You've brought up this same idea a few times about Stim trying to "act cool", but I don't see any particular reason to believe it. Why do you? As I've said before, there will always be a possibility of a town explanation, it's just less likely. If Stim is town, he'll return with a clear explanation. If you want to bring up meta, town should have lynched Stim in XLII. He could have easily been scum, and I said as much in the obs. A more convincing point is that Stim never reacted this way to pressure in XLIII, even though several votes were thrown on him over the course (if I remember). Hypothetical: If Stim doesn't return, what will you do? If Stim hadn't have returned, I'd probably drop the issue entirely and focus my efforts elsewhere, anticipating a /replacement or mod action. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 19:28 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 16:29 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 16:02 Umasi wrote:
Alright, here, hurricane. Who do you think is worth voting at this time?
From your post, I got the gist that it'd be Superfluous or me. Is that correct? I'm still a bit mad at StiM for his post implying that it was our job to keep him entertained. I'm going to give myself some time to cool off on that, because I don't appreciate people quitting on my team (if he is in fact town). This is a time investment for everybody, and it's damn selfish of him to pack up his ball and go home after really light pressure. Townville: Kirby pressured me appropriately after my opener. I like that. He also seems to have the same attitude as me regarding the quick StiMwagon: On July 13 2013 13:31 jrkirby wrote:
2 votes land on a guy is quick succession, I'd be stupid if I weren't at least a BIT suspicious. As far as I can tell, stim is just acting like a bit of an idiot, is flustered, and frustrated. Doesn't seem like scumtell to me. You're free to have your vote, and I don't have a solid scumread on either of you, but I will be looking a bit more closely at your filters. hz is aggressively posting reads and seems to emulate my thoughts on the early Superfluous post: On July 13 2013 09:42 hzflank wrote:I think Jrkirby's and Sponge's opening posts had the same motivation: to get discussion moving. Both have done this and we have multiple discussions taking place. Since then, Sponge did a little coaching. Sponge has come under pressure from multiple people (for his opening post), and has dealt with it while being reasonably open. The only time that he has not been open is by refusing to post the other version of his opening post. Sponge did a little coaching again as he tried to stop Umasi from defending him. So far my read on Sponge has moved very slightly towards town. Since his opening, Jrkirby has attacked Sponge for his opening post, and done nothing else. That's fine because it is early and Jrkirby is pushing to get a reaction from someone. This is not scummy to me, null read. Umasi has defended Hurricane, which cannot be viewed as scummy at this point. Umasi has attacked Superfluous. I would say that this attack could be scummy as it is based on nothing, but it could just be to get Super to post more (he only has one post). Umasi then repeats that he thinks Super's post is scummy and votes for him. The problem I have with this is that Umasi claims Super's only post was scummy, when I do not think that it was. On July 13 2013 08:33 Superfluous wrote:
While I agree that we should lynch someone if they are super scummy, I'd like to point out that voting for no lynch is an option. Assuming I'm interpreting the rules/setup right, mafia only has 1 kp so there's no immediate motive for lynching such as reducing kp. It may be a stronger play to not lynch and hope that cop(if there is one) gets a turn to check before lynch. It is a risk though because I believe we are not guaranteed to have a cop. Just an idea I wanted to throw out and get your guys' thoughts on. If Umasi was looking for a reaction then I do not understand why he posted: On July 13 2013 08:59 Umasi wrote:
Where the hell are you. You popped in, gave a single post, that I think is scummy as crap, still haven't show back up. Pretty confusing, because the post you gave was irrelevant. How was Super's post scummy as crap? I do not think that Umasi is looking for scum, and if he is not just fishing for Super to respond then I think that Umasi is just looking for a neutral place to put his early vote. Unlike Jrkirby's, Umasi's vote is not a troll vote. I have a slight scum read on Umasi. Xzavier posted some decent thoughts (although he really didn't go out on any limbs): On July 13 2013 11:19 Xzavier wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Superfluous wrote:
While I agree that we should lynch someone if they are super scummy, I'd like to point out that voting for no lynch is an option. Assuming I'm interpreting the rules/setup right, mafia only has 1 kp so there's no immediate motive for lynching such as reducing kp. It may be a stronger play to not lynch and hope that cop(if there is one) gets a turn to check before lynch. It is a risk though because I believe we are not guaranteed to have a cop. Just an idea I wanted to throw out and get your guys' thoughts on. i know usami has touched on this, but i see voting for No-lynch is like sacrificing a townie or playing russian roullet for zero prize money. its just basically saying "i want to start this game a townie down" it seems silly to me, if somebody comes and gives me an ungodly reason for no-lynching ill hear it. but i see it as silly. Also from playing with usami before, hes a super fucking hyper aggressive person who needs like a single post to tunnel somebody for a full day, that can be bad. we need to keep our eyes open and looking at multiple people. As i learned my first game, a tunnel vision day1 can lead to a mislynch, or in this gametype, a no-lynch. Its far better to lynch scum, and thats what we should try to do. Even day1 we lynch either a lurker or our top scumread, if nobody has any strong scumreads, lynching the scummiest lurker is the best townplay day1. (it yields the highest chance of killing scum while creating the best pro-town enviroment) with that im also shocked of how active stim-addict is being. its nice to see a usual lurker picking it up leaving less for the scum to hide behind :D again, even Superfluous is at the top of my scumdar, he isnt high enough to deserve a vote yet. I want to lynch a lurker or superfluous depending on how he reacts to our posts and the events of the day. if the rest of it goes uneventful/no major scumslips i want to fuck up a lurker as i believe that to be the best pro-town action. Rainbows is active and is claiming credit for the StiM wagon. If StiM is town, as I suspect, I don't think scum would be claiming lead on an eventual green flip: On July 13 2013 15:43 Rainbows wrote:
Sponge, I started the whole Stim thing. Chrom just questioned both of us then pooped all over him with it :p Planet Neutral:I've found confusing material on Chrom that some may deem scummy (misrepresenting facts, leaping to conclusions, overblowing alignment-neutral mistakes). However, he also did his usual early game Poke'n'Prod, getting people to clarify their random claims that might otherwise have gone unchecked (very town). Umasi is incredibly active, and hunting. The logic leaps, confirmation bias, and clumsy attacks aren't really helping the town, however (other than to just provide really obvious pressure). If there was a shade between Green and Black, I'd use it because I think the three options for Umasi are 'Bad Town' 'Good Scum' and 'Good Town That I Just Have Trouble Reading For Whatever Reason'. Scum Central:Superfluous has a lot of ground to make up. I don't like people attacking him for his bad policy, but at the end of the day, that's not the only thing going against him. I really disagree with his reads, and that has to account for something: On July 13 2013 12:24 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 10:59 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 10:49 StiMaDDict wrote:
I may be biased but I put Chromatically as the most capable scumhunter. In last game, he pretty much had the whole scum team Day1. It goes without saying that I do not Chromatically's alignment as of right now.
@Chromatically Your current scum reads? Superfluous looks really bad, he's been apologetic in his posts (not trying to rock the boat) and has only said what others have already said. It looks like he's trying hard to find anything to post about because he wants to look active. On July 13 2013 10:05 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 09:55 Umasi wrote:
Superfluous, do you have any current scum reads? At the moment no, as I said I was gone for a couple hours then came back and just skimmed through the thread . I mean to go through it again in more detail once I'm finished defending myself or w/e. Two things are on my mind though. One is that I think you are town (not just to suck up to you b/c you are pressuring me). Reasons being that in my personal experience those who are most aggressive are generally town, and also that this is a semi-noob game so I'm unsure if a mafia would have the confidence to go out and control the game/ put pressure on early on. Another thing is that I dont think I've seen much (if anything) from Cloud 9. He may be in same situation as me and I'll give him Benefit of the doubt though. It's extremely odd that he specifically points out Cloud-9 as opposed to any of the other players who haven't posted. This shows pretty clearly that he's not trying at all to find scum, he doesn't even know who hasn't posted. Also looking at Kirby. Lurkers be lurking. As I said I just skimmed over after returning. Cloud 9 was a name I didn't see when comparing the posts I saw to the player list, so I pointed it out. And I have been trying to get something to talk about other than what seem to be mini discussions between certain people. I also don't get why you're attacking me saying "I'm not trying to find scum". In my own post I said that I was going to look it over again and get reads, obviously meaning that I hadn't looked that hard for scum yet. Right now my biggest scum read is HZflank, because I still think Umasi is doing mostly pro town moves yet hz says its scummy. If it pushes to me actually being lynched I think that I'd still feel this way. He also had an early post or two that distracted somewhat from the discussion, which I'm always suspicious of. I'll give nightcat benefit of the doubt. It's a bit weird he showed up once his name came up but eh. I realize thats not really a great reason but seems like we're in semi-similar situations. Xzavier I'm more suspicious of, he didnt have many posts then in his first one he shows up saying he'll consider lynching me. It's really scummy play to lurk then show up ready to lynch imo. These are some wierd-ass wierd reads (formatted in a list, might I add...). You give town reads to a large number of people based on almost nothing? You say that me and Umasi are actively scumhunting, and then say we're null? All followed by a sheep on Super while waiting to commit to Stim. It all feels really odd. Why is xzavier more townie then Umasi/me? Why did you post town reads in the first place? I'm surprised you do not agree with my reads. I shall re-evaluate them. You are Neutral to me for the reasons I mentioned: while you and Umasi are scumhunting (+), I believe you're doing it in an anti-town manner (-). That is: making logical leaps, confirmation bias, poor analysis. Scum can scumhunt too, and that's exactly how I imagine they'd do it. I also don't feel like I'm sheeping Superfluous. I raised some independent analysis regarding him in my earlier post (centering on the fact that our reads are very different, signifying a disconnect from my own POV that is significant enough to be Town-Scum). Are there any other glaring mistakes in particular you'd like to hear my thoughts on? On July 13 2013 19:37 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 15:53 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 15:43 Rainbows wrote:
Sponge, I started the whole Stim thing. Chrom just questioned both of us then pooped all over him with it :p Chrom has made a couple missteps that I would consider 'uncharacteristic'. At the very least, they are poor play I did not expect from him. 1. His enthusiasm to lynch StiM after the blow-up (surely we can all see that it was more likely immature and pissy play from StiM and alignment-independent) contained logical leaks and overblows the importance of whether StiM lied about being mad or not. 2. Saying Superfluous was trying to not 'make waves' when he was the lone voice speaking up for an unpopular policy (Day 1 No Lynch) More importantly, when viewed as a whole, the bolded section above is a big stop sign on my vote to lynch StiM: Why would scum not alert StiM that everyone and their mother knew the jokepost was a joke and let him carry on in this manner? He'd have to be willfully disobeying his team, or (more likely) flying solo. If someone can give me a satisfactory answer to that, I'd feel much better about a StiM lynch. 1) You seem confident that Stim's blowup was alignment independent, can you address my earlier posts about why it's more likely from scum? I think it's pretty hard to overblow the importance of someone lying about their motivation without being able to explain it. You disagree? 2) The apologetic tone is the entire reason why Super looks bad. He's trying not to draw attention to himself and not to incite anyone (scummy). The Nolynch thing is totally non alignment indicative, which you should know. Explain your scumread on Super more. On July 13 2013 12:24 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 10:59 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 10:49 StiMaDDict wrote:
I may be biased but I put Chromatically as the most capable scumhunter. In last game, he pretty much had the whole scum team Day1. It goes without saying that I do not Chromatically's alignment as of right now.
@Chromatically Your current scum reads? Superfluous looks really bad, he's been apologetic in his posts (not trying to rock the boat) and has only said what others have already said. It looks like he's trying hard to find anything to post about because he wants to look active. On July 13 2013 10:05 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 09:55 Umasi wrote:
Superfluous, do you have any current scum reads? At the moment no, as I said I was gone for a couple hours then came back and just skimmed through the thread . I mean to go through it again in more detail once I'm finished defending myself or w/e. Two things are on my mind though. One is that I think you are town (not just to suck up to you b/c you are pressuring me). Reasons being that in my personal experience those who are most aggressive are generally town, and also that this is a semi-noob game so I'm unsure if a mafia would have the confidence to go out and control the game/ put pressure on early on. Another thing is that I dont think I've seen much (if anything) from Cloud 9. He may be in same situation as me and I'll give him Benefit of the doubt though. It's extremely odd that he specifically points out Cloud-9 as opposed to any of the other players who haven't posted. This shows pretty clearly that he's not trying at all to find scum, he doesn't even know who hasn't posted. Also looking at Kirby. Lurkers be lurking. As I said I just skimmed over after returning. Cloud 9 was a name I didn't see when comparing the posts I saw to the player list, so I pointed it out. And I have been trying to get something to talk about other than what seem to be mini discussions between certain people. I also don't get why you're attacking me saying "I'm not trying to find scum". In my own post I said that I was going to look it over again and get reads, obviously meaning that I hadn't looked that hard for scum yet. Right now my biggest scum read is HZflank, because I still think Umasi is doing mostly pro town moves yet hz says its scummy. If it pushes to me actually being lynched I think that I'd still feel this way. He also had an early post or two that distracted somewhat from the discussion, which I'm always suspicious of. I'll give nightcat benefit of the doubt. It's a bit weird he showed up once his name came up but eh. I realize thats not really a great reason but seems like we're in semi-similar situations. Xzavier I'm more suspicious of, he didnt have many posts then in his first one he shows up saying he'll consider lynching me. It's really scummy play to lurk then show up ready to lynch imo. I really don't like that last part where he gives one lurker the FoS, but a second one a free pass in the same post. I don't like that his reads seem diametrically opposed to mine, which implies a significant difference in frame-of-reference. I don't like his case on HZ (which is a case in name only). I don't like that he's suspicious of townies who enter the thread willing to lynch. On July 13 2013 21:48 Chromatically wrote:
Sponge, could you also elaborate on you Umasi read? As I told Umasi late last night when we were the only two in the thread, I love his scumhunting, but I cringe at his methods. He's got a big problem with confirmation bias and attacking his target when he should just be poking, bringing the level of discourse down into the mud too soon. Like I said in the earlier post, I think he's Green-Black: Bad Town, Good Scum, or Good Town That I Just Can't Read. The early game aggression is much preferred to the alternative (lurking), but if he keeps some of these traits up into the late game, I'm worried for town. Moving on: On July 13 2013 21:54 Koshi wrote:I am from Belgium guys, This game started at 12PM and I was tired after a working week. I read the thread once now and my initial (this is without using filters, just reading all the posts) is that H.Sponge build enough town kred to not get lynched day 1 no matter what. I loved his opening post, and I loved his defense on that post. Even if he is scum, he has been very helpful to town, and every town should go and read that opening post. Scum reads are on Umasi and Chroma. Umasi because his entire early posts were just sucking up to H.Sponge, which is just not useful at all, H. Sponge clearly doesn't need to be defended like this. Another thing I dont like about Umasi is him trying to redirect the thread twice for a Superfluous train on a rather useless moment. Superfluous entered the thread with a bad post, but went afk after, which is not a clear scumread. Not enough the get a train going, and make the rest of the day useless. Chroma is currently tunneling so heavily on StiMaDDict. The guy is afk, treat him as an afk bad town till he comes back. It is a good thing to spark some conversation around StiMaDDict, but at this point I feel that Chroma is derailing more than necessarily. It's just tunneling into oblivion. I start filtering now: Reading Chroma his filter I get a serious scum vibe. Post like this: On July 13 2013 11:39 Chromatically wrote:
Also just noticed that Sponge hasn't given a single opinion on anyone all game after saying that he wanted people to judge him on his scumhunting, interesting. This is just being a jack-ass, at least it would be if you say things like this in real life. In mafia it is trying to put suspicion onto somebody without saying anything. I haven't crosschecked this message with the referring Sponge message but it feels dirty. What was your intention while typing this down Chromo? @ Chromo, Do you agree that this is a very suspicious post? And explain to me why it is "interesting" that Sponge likes to have interaction on his scumreads while playing this game? Reading Umasi his filter after the Chroma filter makes me want to lynch one of these 2 guys. Umasi and Chroma are either bromancing it up on the stimaddict lynch, or they are both scum. Here is Umasi his game till now: --> Defend Sponge while pushing lynch on Superfluous. --> Argue with Sponge about Chroma while pusing a lynch on StiMaDDict. I hate Umasi and Chrom as lynch targets for Day 1. Town does not want to lynch guys this active and scumhunting this hard. Regardless of the fact that I think Superfluous is scummier at this point, I'd push for a Lurker lynch over one of either of Umasi or Chrom. ---------------- Current Events: I think StiM's case on Kirby is weak. Lots of fallacies in there. Everything quoted is interpreted single-mindedly as scum, and even the stuff that's pro town is justified as 'this is clearly scum trying to look town'. Please re read this post. He doesnt like someone because they have a different POV. Italso seems like he wants people to be with his scumhunting methods.
Early in the game, someone having vastly disparate reads from you is noticeable. I think that's reasonable suspicion. The second part of your concern doesn't really make sense. Maybe you can elaborate.
On July 15 2013 14:47 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 07:30 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 15 2013 07:26 Rainbows wrote:
Acceptable yes. Im really unsure of who to vote but super seems best imo.
Both might be town. You mentioned that, and that's why this is sort of an unholy alliance. Even though the odds are staggeringly in your favor, I would actually be more inclined to believe they were both scum rather than both town. I feel like I have a decent eye for town-on-town crime, although to be fair, kirby and super haven't been sniping at each other NEARLY enough for my taste. Regardless, this is good news. Now we just need Umasi to confirm he finds both players scummy, and we can decide this lynch. This just seems like you are setting your self up that no matter the flip you dont get heat.
I honestly don't know what Onegu is reading. So I'm not allowed to update my reads as people post more content? Onegu is in full confirmation bias mode now.
On July 15 2013 14:49 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 07:24 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
@ Umasi
@ Rainbows
We three control this lynch. I think everyone else is entrenched (via either conviction or inactivity). If you agree, we need to establish some things between the three of us.
First, do we all agree that both of the current wagons are acceptable lynch candidates? Here you make sure 100% that the wagons stay exacty the same there will be one of these 2 town lynched.
Here, you look silly because I tried to orchestrate an off-man lurker lynch late in day 1, proving this point completely false.
On July 15 2013 15:57 Onegu wrote:
Scumteam
Hurricane
Koshi
Rainbow/gotard
I am really confidant in my hurricane read btw, he made sure he led the council and could make sure we never got off a town/town bandwagon. Alot of his posts just seem like he wants town cred, unlike last game.
I didn't know it was a town/town bandwagon, and at the end actually tried to get a Gotard lynch with the votes we'd accumulated. Read the thread. Also, I've openly refused town cred for posts that I don't think deserved it (first one).
On July 15 2013 19:16 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 18:50 Gotard wrote:Hi Onegu. Nice to see ya! Chromatically - For me he looks more like a town that mafia. He tends to put himself in a headlights by creating wagons and defending them really strongly with no fear (but sometimes he's tunneling himself like when he was pressuring Stim). In 'The Super Case' he brought good points and made some more room for discussion. Would he make such a strong defense to save his scum buddy? I don't thing so because after Super flipping scum he would be in a big trouble. Pushing lynch isn't scummy if you have good points and your target barely shows and signs of life innocence. On July 15 2013 15:57 Onegu wrote:
Scumteam
Hurricane
Koshi
Rainbow/gotard
I am really confidant in my hurricane read btw, he made sure he led the council and could make sure we never got off a town/town bandwagon. Alot of his posts just seem like he wants town cred, unlike last game. Hurricane ensured lynch that day. Everyone agreed that both of them are super scummy. I think leadership like that is useful when you need majority to lynch. His posts are super pro town in general and leading town like that even in wrong direction isn't scummy to me. Koshi - reading comprehension... I will address him later after reading his filter. I will say this it is hard for me to be objective since I already knew there was a mislynch, but I tried my best, but you are right he made sure there was a lynch, but he made sure to focus on those two and didnt let it drift away, if he is scum he knows it is a town town bandwagon it doesnt matter he ensures a lynch as long as he ensures it on one of them, which is what he did.
Again, Onegu hammering the point that I was holding the town hostage on a town/town lynch when in reality, I tried to get a 3rd party lynch going once we had the votes for it. Umasi and StiM actually put the axe to my idea of moving off the two candidates. And as we know... StiM is actually Gotard...
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Onegu said he'd lynch StiM (despite knowing StiM's role) in his introductory post. I'd be really surprised if Onegu flipped red this game.
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((Sorry guys, just had 'a talk' with the girlfriend. I may be out of commission til the morning. Feel free to discuss Onegu's case when it comes out, but do not feel the need to White Knight on my behalf. We'll get more info out of the people attacking, and I'm perfectly capable of defending everything I've said to this point.))
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On July 16 2013 12:06 Nightcat99 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 05:48 Chromatically wrote:
The three scummiest people in the game (Kirby, Koshi, Xzav) are on the Super wagon. thats totally not true here because 2 of them is dead and the scummiest people is got ot be on the kirby wagon since scum knows hes a townie.His claim to being roleblock is super strange too, i dont see that doing anything for the town but its a great way to get towncredit.
This point is moot if it was a town/town wagon. I don't agree with Nightcat's logic on a lot of the points he's made. I'm also still concerned about him trying to get info on how we'd react if scum shot one of the Tribunal. It could just be bad townie play, but it blinks bright red to me as scum trying to get town consensus going into the NK flip.
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I'm not sure if it's helpful to speculate on the SK at this point, but I think I can make a case on Xzavier being SK. Unfortunately, we need SK to shoot scum tonight (and vote for a Scum lynch today) if he isn't lynched Day 2, or else we're in a situation where a mislynch Day 2 leads to 5/3/1. Assuming scum hit their NK Night 2, that makes us 4/3/1, and if SK misses his shot it's GG.
Can any of the veteran players shed insight on whether it's worthwhile at this time for me to try to chase down the SK?
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Filter-diving Rainbows, he actually didn't give a lot of scum reads. One of his last posts FoS's Gotard, but it's not really passionate or compelling.
On July 16 2013 05:23 Rainbows wrote:
We're lynching Gotard tomorrow btw guise.
Chrom, your case on me is bad. It boils down to me lynching the guy you wanted, and not really caring. Nobody wanted to lynch Gotard so I lynched the other dude. I can't really oppose the lynch when all I can do is watch and write little snippets from my phone at work.
Did some more diving, and Rainbows may have been tunneling Gotard all game. Check his filter and control-F 'Gotard':
On July 14 2013 03:30 Rainbows wrote:I think Gotard is mafia His first post is a giant list that accomplishes next to nothing and provides little original. Lists are generally an easy way to feign contribution while doing jack. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 19:53 Gotard wrote:Hello! After some lurking (jk I was sleeping) i'd like to share my thoughts: 1) hzflank - cold, calculated. Null read. 2) StiMaDDict - bad town. It would be too easy if he's mafia. 3) Chromatically - I think he's pushing stim too hard (he's agressive in general) but at the same time it's good for town to see some bandwagons going 4) jrkirby - confuses me a little.But he has a similar view on StiMaDDict as i do. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 13:38 jrkirby wrote:
I don't think he's town. I think he's stupid, and have a nullread. 5) Koshi - inexperienced or lurking hard. 6) Xzavier - one good post Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 04:58 Xzavier wrote:
its fine, all i have to do is show supporting evidence and never try to make my own case on gotard. No wait, that one was good. Need to see some more activity from him to have a read. I don't agree that lynching lurker is better than no lynch (9v3 > 8v3) 7) Rainbows - A lot of posts with minimum impact seems more townie than mafia. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:42 Rainbows wrote:
I play exactly the same as scum and town imo.
wtf? 8) Nightcat99 - lurking newbie. 9) Umasi - Very aggressive same as last game I played with him (He was town). 11) Hurricane Sponge - biggest town read. Really liked this post. 12) Superfluous - Town vibe. 13) cloud-9 - US timezone and 0 posts. He also seems apprehensive about making decisions. In the following he notes that he is "confused. . . not sure of anything", as if he doesn't want to take responsibility for his scum reads. His jokes (see below and above) are also punctuated with (jk) like he really doesn't want to be taken seriously. "Just incase you guys were wondering, that's a joke post" -MLuneth, scum. On July 13 2013 20:12 Gotard wrote:Easy question. Umasi and Xzavier!!! (jk)
I'm really confused because my biggest (biggest doesn't mean that i'm really sure of anything) scum reads don't think that Stim is mafia. Maybe they don't want to vote on him because they know that this is too easy and don't want to jump on him that early. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 19:57 Chromatically wrote:
Why don't you think that Stim is scum? He looks like a bad town not like mafia. The rest of Gotard's filter is calling Stim not mafia. He's obviously bad town guise and not mafia.. he knows? Anyway, Gotard has a low post count, does lists, and seems nervous about things when he really shouldn't be if town. I think he's scum. Discuss. ##Vote: Gotard
On July 14 2013 04:20 Rainbows wrote:
Consider Gotard, he is mafia. Fairly inactive and scummy. Good lynch.
On July 14 2013 07:45 Rainbows wrote:Gotard still scummy guise .. whenever i get home ill revote cus u guys dont wanna kill him. im feeling jrkirby is the better lynch, I'll case it later.
On July 15 2013 05:20 Rainbows wrote:
I think gotard is scum, nobody listened tho.
kirby and super could be anything.
He's subtle about it (that may be being nice. I could just as easily say 'lazy'), but if the NK was a protection-kill, Gotard deserves a second look out of respect to a fallen townie.
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On July 17 2013 02:06 Nightcat99 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 01:51 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 16 2013 12:06 Nightcat99 wrote:On July 15 2013 05:48 Chromatically wrote:
The three scummiest people in the game (Kirby, Koshi, Xzav) are on the Super wagon. thats totally not true here because 2 of them is dead and the scummiest people is got ot be on the kirby wagon since scum knows hes a townie.His claim to being roleblock is super strange too, i dont see that doing anything for the town but its a great way to get towncredit. This point is moot if it was a town/town wagon. I don't agree with Nightcat's logic on a lot of the points he's made. I'm also still concerned about him trying to get info on how we'd react if scum shot one of the Tribunal. It could just be bad townie play, but it blinks bright red to me as scum trying to get town consensus going into the NK flip. Arent you the one that was pushing for a lynch on either super or kirby , why are you so convince its a town/town wagon now when super didnt show up to do much after the day 1 end.and if i was trying to get reaction for killing a tribunal , wont it have been better to just shoot a tribunal?
You know what, that's a good point. Super could still be scum. I demoted him to 'lurker' status, and he still hasn't independently posted content without being directly pressured.
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Running with that, if Super is scum, the next logical avenue to chase down is the Kirby lynch. If Superfluous is scum, then either he was bussed, or there were scum entrenched on the Kirby wagon. StiM/Onegu, Chromatically, and Gotard were the three entrenched votes. I don't think Onegu/StiM or Chromatically are scum (and Chrom offered that his vote was semi-mobile). But it's hard to believe that only one scum (Gotard, in this case) was on a wagon to save their team. So I guess a Day 1 bus is possible.
Chasing down the Bus Super avenue, that'd tag HZ as the only likely scum on that wagon (as the guy who started the wagon). Now, hz is a phenomenal mafia player, but that's a hell of a play. He was ready to paint his face and go to war to get Super lynched. Everyone has to make that call on their own. I don't think scum would bus like that, and most of the thread thinks hz is town.
Neither of these scenarios seem as likely as a town/town wagon with an arbitrary distribution of scumvotes to me.
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On July 15 2013 11:59 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 11:51 Umasi wrote:
I think he's townier than a lot of people give him credit for, but whatever. my reads are apparently worth jack in the face of mighty Alakaslam.
by the way
you are literally trying to build post flip cred by saying "oh I think kirby's town. Wait, he's town? WHAT A COINKIDINK!"
I have a hard time believing that you'd just enter the thread and be like "huh the games been going on, and I'm in it. That means someone was modkilled, or requested a replacement, which will occur at the end of the day."
"huh it must be the middle of the day."
I'd assume that the first thing you did was LOOK AT THE RESULT. Ok, I'm sorry for being so bombastic but after the Mind rape that is NWM this game looks solved practically. But when I think about it, I always look scummy too, so I'll read like suggested. But holy shizang you are right, my confidence has shot to 10,000%
Alakaslam (and welcome to the jam): Tell us what you were thinking in this moment, even though I know your feelings may have shifted from this point.
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Gotard is a strong lynch candidate, but it's a long day. It's important to make secondary reads (and even tertiary reads from there) to remain flexible and bring more to the thread than just Tunnel Vision.
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On July 17 2013 02:31 Onegu wrote:
@hurricane
Defend thyself before I sleep.
I'll defend once I see the rest of the scum jump on your wagon. Right now, it's solo pressure and I don't respect it. Once I get some votes on me, I'll refute what I need to, but for now, I'm going to scumhunt.
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On July 15 2013 15:57 Onegu wrote:
Scumteam
Hurricane
Koshi
Rainbow/gotard
I am really confidant in my hurricane read btw, he made sure he led the council and could make sure we never got off a town/town bandwagon. Alot of his posts just seem like he wants town cred, unlike last game.
I'd also recommend you develop your secondary reads, Onegu. Otherwise you're going to waste a day tunneling.
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On July 17 2013 02:37 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 02:34 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 17 2013 02:31 Onegu wrote:
@hurricane
Defend thyself before I sleep. I'll defend once I see the rest of the scum jump on your wagon. Right now, it's solo pressure and I don't respect it. Once I get some votes on me, I'll refute what I need to, but for now, I'm going to scumhunt. What? This is just mindlessly throwing shit, calling anyone that votes for you scum, You're not giving your opinion because you "don't respect" his case?
I've publicly stated that I think the mafia's play was to run with the Onegu FoS which is what saved me from the NK. I'm willing to wait to see who piles on before I refute the case. Is gathering reads in this manner unacceptable?
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On July 15 2013 13:43 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 07:22 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 15 2013 07:19 hzflank wrote:On July 15 2013 06:47 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 15 2013 05:56 hzflank wrote:On July 15 2013 05:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
I'd be on board for a gotard hammer if someone can make a good case that mafia are on this wagon pushing for a mislynch. You don't think that Mafia are on that wagon? From my position you are on the scummy wagon.I am reading Gotard again. I did not think that the cases against him were strong, but on the other hand Gotard's filter after 24 hours was horrible. The problem that I have with reading his more recent posts is that I am struggling to separate an alignment read from a personality read. I think Gotard could very well be scum, but I still think that Super is more likely. If you look at Chrom's defense of Super, almost every point was that it was bad play rather than scum play. When you make that many consecutive defenses and call them all bad play then alarm bells should be ringing. Elaborate on this if you can, hz. Gotard is scummy. Stim is still at least in the top 5 of my scum list. Nightcat is a lurker who just randomly added his vote. Chrom is neutral at best. At best that wagon has 2 scummy, 2 neutral and 2 townie players on it. The other wagon has Umasi, who I think is townie. Xzavier who is neutral (too much lurking, his posts are not good enough to make up for that that much lurking) and Koshi. Some other people have been calling Koshi scum recently, but I have him as neutral. Mmmmmmmmm nope. I like Chrom's answer better: On July 15 2013 05:48 Chromatically wrote:
The three scummiest people in the game (Kirby, Koshi, Xzav) are on the Super wagon. Hurricane did you get enough sleep before this? Three scummiest in a mini, while he votes on another! And town consensus is on a fifth!
This confused me to. Not like, your logic confused me, but literally the words in that order confused me. Can you clarify this point if it's still relevant?
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On July 17 2013 02:42 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 02:40 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 15 2013 15:57 Onegu wrote:
Scumteam
Hurricane
Koshi
Rainbow/gotard
I am really confidant in my hurricane read btw, he made sure he led the council and could make sure we never got off a town/town bandwagon. Alot of his posts just seem like he wants town cred, unlike last game. I'd also recommend you develop your secondary reads, Onegu. Otherwise you're going to waste a day tunneling. Dont worry about me I will post other reads, I dont mind tunneling if I feel I am correct and I want to keep focus on you until you defend yourself.
Good stuff. Sorry if it feels like I'm wasting your time, but I honestly believe we'll learn something by having me as one of the wagons for Early Day 2.
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On July 17 2013 02:46 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 02:41 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 17 2013 02:37 Chromatically wrote:On July 17 2013 02:34 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 17 2013 02:31 Onegu wrote:
@hurricane
Defend thyself before I sleep. I'll defend once I see the rest of the scum jump on your wagon. Right now, it's solo pressure and I don't respect it. Once I get some votes on me, I'll refute what I need to, but for now, I'm going to scumhunt. What? This is just mindlessly throwing shit, calling anyone that votes for you scum, You're not giving your opinion because you "don't respect" his case? I've publicly stated that I think the mafia's play was to run with the Onegu FoS which is what saved me from the NK. I'm willing to wait to see who piles on before I refute the case. Is gathering reads in this manner unacceptable? Why do you think that scum are going to push for your mislynch? Do you think Onegu is scum?
No, I think Onegu is town. (He's posting like town, and I had a town read by the end on StiM). I was sure that I was the NK target early Night 1, which is why I was actually happy/sad to see Onegu start pressuring me hard. I figured if the Mafia decided they could back his case with 3 votes, they'd just need to convince just two townies to hop on to secure a mislynch, and they'd be able to get rid of one of the most active pro-town posters in the game. However, the points Onegu was making in Night 1 were weak (and I believe I've addressed all of them already. If I missed one, let me know) so I wasn't sure if they'd go for it. (For a while, I entertained the idea that Onegu was fake pressuring for the sole purpose of saving my life that night, because his arguments were pretty bad and filled with confirmation bias.)
Lo and behold, I was not targeted for the NK and immediately hz starts jumping on me for a very flimsy reason after Onegu re-affirms his pressure. Everything looked exactly like I thought it would if the scum were following the plan. Fortunately, this pressure didn't surprise me, and I am well prepared for the next 24 hours.
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On July 17 2013 02:51 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 02:41 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 17 2013 02:37 Chromatically wrote:On July 17 2013 02:34 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 17 2013 02:31 Onegu wrote:
@hurricane
Defend thyself before I sleep. I'll defend once I see the rest of the scum jump on your wagon. Right now, it's solo pressure and I don't respect it. Once I get some votes on me, I'll refute what I need to, but for now, I'm going to scumhunt. What? This is just mindlessly throwing shit, calling anyone that votes for you scum, You're not giving your opinion because you "don't respect" his case? I've publicly stated that I think the mafia's play was to run with the Onegu FoS which is what saved me from the NK. I'm willing to wait to see who piles on before I refute the case. Is gathering reads in this manner unacceptable? Did Onegu's night post really put you under so much pressure that you were worried of being lynched on day 2? You were not the only person that Onegu attacked during the night, so there was no reason to expect him to tunnel you on day 2. Also, I am not going to let you tell me who I can or cannot vote for on day 2, when you tried to tell me not to move my vote on day 1 while you were controlling 4 other votes. And you scum-slipped. ##Vote: Hurricane Sponge
Haha, read his filter and tell me I had no way of knowing Onegu would pressure me. And you're going to learn something very valuable about claiming 'scum-slips' in endgame. But regardless, I'm leaning scum (or over-confident town) on you, and your vote has been acknowledged.
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On July 17 2013 02:57 Nightcat99 wrote:
i just wanted to point out that i have been reading the guides for mafia and it clearly stated
Priority #1: Establishing Your Innocence
so hurricane not willing to explain his case because there is only one finger pointing at him is kind of odd so
points finger.
I established my innocence via quality posting. I'll refute the individual arguments when I feel the time is right. For now, get your vote on me if you actually think I'm scum. Otherwise, let's see some hunting, not sheeping.
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On July 17 2013 03:00 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 02:17 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Running with that, if Super is scum, the next logical avenue to chase down is the Kirby lynch. If Superfluous is scum, then either he was bussed, or there were scum entrenched on the Kirby wagon. StiM/Onegu, Chromatically, and Gotard were the three entrenched votes. I don't think Onegu/StiM or Chromatically are scum (and Chrom offered that his vote was semi-mobile). But it's hard to believe that only one scum (Gotard, in this case) was on a wagon to save their team. So I guess a Day 1 bus is possible.
Chasing down the Bus Super avenue, that'd tag HZ as the only likely scum on that wagon (as the guy who started the wagon). Now, hz is a phenomenal mafia player, but that's a hell of a play. He was ready to paint his face and go to war to get Super lynched. Everyone has to make that call on their own. I don't think scum would bus like that, and most of the thread thinks hz is town.
Neither of these scenarios seem as likely as a town/town wagon with an arbitrary distribution of scumvotes to me. Is this association stuff the only reason why Super is town? Also, why did you think that scum would jump on you after you PUBLICLY pointed out several times that you thought scum would jump on you?
So it wouldn't be written off as just OMGUS.
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On July 17 2013 03:03 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 03:02 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 17 2013 03:00 Chromatically wrote:On July 17 2013 02:17 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Running with that, if Super is scum, the next logical avenue to chase down is the Kirby lynch. If Superfluous is scum, then either he was bussed, or there were scum entrenched on the Kirby wagon. StiM/Onegu, Chromatically, and Gotard were the three entrenched votes. I don't think Onegu/StiM or Chromatically are scum (and Chrom offered that his vote was semi-mobile). But it's hard to believe that only one scum (Gotard, in this case) was on a wagon to save their team. So I guess a Day 1 bus is possible.
Chasing down the Bus Super avenue, that'd tag HZ as the only likely scum on that wagon (as the guy who started the wagon). Now, hz is a phenomenal mafia player, but that's a hell of a play. He was ready to paint his face and go to war to get Super lynched. Everyone has to make that call on their own. I don't think scum would bus like that, and most of the thread thinks hz is town.
Neither of these scenarios seem as likely as a town/town wagon with an arbitrary distribution of scumvotes to me. Is this association stuff the only reason why Super is town? Also, why did you think that scum would jump on you after you PUBLICLY pointed out several times that you thought scum would jump on you? So it wouldn't be written off as just OMGUS. That doesn't answer the question (either of them). Why would scum go "this guy expects us to jump on his wagon, we should obviously do that"?
It's win-win. If they don't jump on me, then I won't die. If they do, then it gives us reads on scum. There's another reason that I'm not quite ready to share yet (time-sensitive), but I promise I will share it if it looks like my lynch is inevitable.
(The above bolded is the reason I'm making this play)
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Honestly, Chrom, if you want my opinion, I'd say to back off me for a little bit and force others to chime in with their thoughts. You're a strong town read for most of us (myself included), so you doing the pressure for the scum isn't really giving us any new material to work with.
See: Nightcat sheeping
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On July 17 2013 03:07 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 02:59 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 17 2013 02:51 hzflank wrote:On July 17 2013 02:41 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 17 2013 02:37 Chromatically wrote:On July 17 2013 02:34 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 17 2013 02:31 Onegu wrote:
@hurricane
Defend thyself before I sleep. I'll defend once I see the rest of the scum jump on your wagon. Right now, it's solo pressure and I don't respect it. Once I get some votes on me, I'll refute what I need to, but for now, I'm going to scumhunt. What? This is just mindlessly throwing shit, calling anyone that votes for you scum, You're not giving your opinion because you "don't respect" his case? I've publicly stated that I think the mafia's play was to run with the Onegu FoS which is what saved me from the NK. I'm willing to wait to see who piles on before I refute the case. Is gathering reads in this manner unacceptable? Did Onegu's night post really put you under so much pressure that you were worried of being lynched on day 2? You were not the only person that Onegu attacked during the night, so there was no reason to expect him to tunnel you on day 2. Also, I am not going to let you tell me who I can or cannot vote for on day 2, when you tried to tell me not to move my vote on day 1 while you were controlling 4 other votes. And you scum-slipped. ##Vote: Hurricane Sponge Haha, read his filter and tell me I had no way of knowing Onegu would pressure me. And you're going to learn something very valuable about claiming 'scum-slips' in endgame. But regardless, I'm leaning scum (or over-confident town) on you, and your vote has been acknowledged. As it happened I just read his filter before I posted that (I thought I spotted an inconsistency from Onegu, but I was wrong). It looked like he might pressure you, but not enough to force you to go into turtle mode. It certainly was not strong enough to make me think that scum would act on it in any way.
Really? I count seven posts in which he is openly suspicious of me before the night-flip. That's significantly more pressure than anyone has ever put on me in my TL Mafia career. I thought it was pretty obvious he'd be going after me, and look at that: he actually is.
(I seem to be getting heat for being right a lot. hz thinks I'm scum because I was right about thinking Onegu would pressure me. Onegu thinks I'm scum because I raised a defense for StiM, who he knows is Town)
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On July 17 2013 03:10 Chromatically wrote:
Can you answer my question about your read on Super?
Yes, sorry. I think that the relationships are a relatively mathematical way to approach the problem, but honestly I expect my Super read to change drastically based on his Day 2 posts. He's a full-on lurker at this point, and hasn't really done anything I'd consider as pro-town as most of the people (nightcat excluded) active right now have done.
In short: My read on Super is lurky-town, but I expect that to change today (because he promised to post more).
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On July 17 2013 03:14 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 03:12 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
hz thinks I'm scum because I was right about thinking Onegu would pressure me.
That is not true.
My apologies then. I interpreted you being suspicious of my preparations for pressure as scummy.
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On July 16 2013 02:44 Gotard wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 04:14 Koshi wrote:
I would sheep. I have no targets that need to get lynched now. As promised Koshi's case: Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:19 Koshi wrote:
@Hurricane Sponge
Koshi: I am still learning on how to play the game properly. I am extremely bad at scumhunting. I get very easily annoyed by people saying that I am scum (I am working on this). I love fluff posts. I hate illogical posts but it seems that illogical does not mean you are scum, however, I am not planning on ever making an illogical post and when I do please call me on it.
As you can see, I got a lot of bad qualities that make me look scum all the time. However, I always prove that I am town by trying and hopefully this game I can prove it by actually nailing some scumreads. Yeah he's bad so there is not much point to listen to him just ignore... Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 00:10 Koshi wrote:
Guys, we need to get our shit together if we want a lynch. Don't forget we need at least 7 people on 1 guy. Both look perfect targets, let's try to come to a consensus now so that the more inactive people can follow us if they pop in.
I would say that Sponge and Umasi try to work this out and they give us final target? It seems that Chroma made the kirby case and that hzflank made the super case.
Me, StiM and all others should FOLLOW lead. all others should FOLLOW. Interesting. why would he want others to just follow? It's easy to hide as a scum if people are just following few leaders. And then trying to correct himself but it's still FOCUS ON THEM. Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 00:13 Koshi wrote:
When you follow lead you should also give own reasoning obviously. But at this point we just need to pick one of these 2 targets. Change in his activity level is really interesting as well. He started with "hello i'm bad" lurking type of player and became 2nd Umasi (no offence) and he of course explained it. Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 09:55 Koshi wrote:On July 15 2013 09:49 Chromatically wrote:
Why am I "smarter than that"? Weren't you just calling me "full of shit" a short bit ago? I actually think you are pretty smart. I was just screaming and kicking in the lynch so that I could get a good read on you and other people. Imagine how boring that last lynch would have been without the two of us. But I am currently having serious scum vibes coming from you. I am pretty sure that I am partially the reason why Kirby died. I played my role as lunatic in the start and people stopped listening to me. I tried to be more serious at the end of the lynch with my "Why Kirby is a better save than Super" but it was too late. But anyway, the only reason why I stopped being the lunatic is because I am 100% certain that your defense of Super is unholy. I hope that people will see the same reasoning. Also, with the green flip of kirby I should NEVER be seen as scum. Or I am that retard that wants to go 2 versus 11 with a bit of townkred from the Day 1 scum lynch. Personally I didn't find that defense particularly scummy. So Koshi's reasons: + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 09:18 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 09:14 Umasi wrote:
And also, how good of a target is Super to you, Chrom? Chrom is becoming the target and not Super. I hope I have time to make a good case in the next 24hours. Because the defense of Chrom was UNHOLY. Even if Super flips town, the reasoning of Chrom was getting out of control. At this point I feel If super is scum than 100% Chrom is scum. If super is town, 50% Chrom is scum. Reasoning --> That defense, he must have known Super was town, because that defense made 0 sense. I am not talking about kirby here. I am talking 100% Chrom putting his neck out for a guy that was not better than kirby. On July 15 2013 11:22 Koshi wrote:Red lights in my head after this post. + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 03:25 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 03:21 Koshi wrote:
Can we get a Super lynch going? Chromatically could you please consider this? Don't you think that Kirby is better for town if both Kirby and Super are at this point equally scum? Kirby posts much better than Super, if Kirby is scum I feel like it will be easier to catch him later on than Super.
I see that you guys (StiM, Croma) are thinking that I am scum. It's fine by me, we can discuss it later, I am not going to stop posting, I am during Europe times online A LOT, you can keep grilling me. This is blatantly untrue. Super actually posts scumreads with reasoning. Kirby does not. Chrom defending super. MAJOR RED LIGHTS going off in my head. You can see that I started being really active in this lynch right after this post below. + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 05:31 Chromatically wrote:I have to rewrite this because my computer crashed, so I'm just going to c/p the parts that hz wrote (without the quotes from Super). Original case is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=420227¤tpage=28#549The Super CaseShow nested quote +
Super introduces himself as a player who understands that people cannot always respond to posts quickly and as a player who thinks that applying pressure on other players is a good thing. His later posts do not exhibit these traits at all.
Before even starting to scum-hunt, Super is concerned with self-preservation. He is not even interested in getting good conversation flowing to produce information. Self-preservation comes first.
This isn't scummy. I've already talked about this at length, but everyone's first priority is to stay alive. If there was suspicion on me, my first priority is to remove it.Ask yourself: what would you do if you walked into the thread and there was a case on you? You'd defend yourself. Show nested quote +
One of the first things that Super says comes to his mind is that Cloud has not posted yet. Why is this the next thing that Super thinks of, after self-preservation? He later gives a reason but I cannot understand how he arrived at that train of thought.
? His reason makes sense. He didn't have time to do anything more than skim, so he called out someone he thought was lurking. Not particularly townie, but not at all scummy. Show nested quote +
Next Super says that he has not yet scum-hunted, but so far I was his biggest scum read. That would be fine if his reads were fluid after he actually did some scum-hunting. As we will see later though, his read on me persists until I really hammer home the point that there is no good town motivation for his read on me.
This isn't scummy. Bad reads =/= scum, bad townies make bad reads all of the time. You say there's no town motivation, but there's really no scum motivation. Scum know that they won't get a mislynch on you, so they have no reason to scumread you. Show nested quote +
Also, why is he so worried that posting this early read might push him to being lynched? I think that it is because he already knows that he cannot actually justify his read on me.
I didn't really understand what he was saying in that sentence. Show nested quote +
Next, Super calls me a lurker but says that the other Europeans should be excused for not posting much. I had already made several posts at this point and am a European myself.
This isn't scummy. This is bad reasoning. Bad reasoning often comes from bad town. If anything, this is overzealous scumhunting. Show nested quote +
He says that he wants to see more from me, but does not give any indication of what he wants to see. When I later make posts directed towards him he completely ignores then as though they are invisible. If he had a scum read on me and wanted to see more, why does he not reply to my posts?
This, once again, isn't scummy. If I say that I want a scumread to post more, that does NOT mean that I'm planning on replying to them. All it means is that I want them to post their reads and reasoning more often. I'm probably NOT going to reply to them, most of the time, unless I have something in particular to say. I cannot understand why you think this is bad. Show nested quote +
Next Super says that he still thinks I am scum. His reasons are that I have not posted anything which contributed to finding scum. I may be biased on this point, but I do not see how a town Super could say that I had not been contributing. Note that I stopped playing at around 2 AM my time last night, but Super seems to think that it was scummy of me to stop posting. Why would a town player think that?
Once again, bad logic =/= scum. Show nested quote +
Now, Super is still more concerned with self-preservation that with finding scum. He also gently suggests that we should consider a no lynch. If a town player was under pressure at this point they would push a scum-read as hard as they could, but they would not try for a no lynch. Super switches his primary scum read from me to Xzavier, without ever saying why I suddenly became less scummy or Xzavier became more scummy (as Xzavier has not posted in a long time). This is still self-preservation without pushing a scum target with any significant force.
Why would a scum player say that they were just giving reads in self defense? I'll admit that this is a decent point though. So almost all of hz's case is stuff that isn't scummy. When I look at Super's filter, I see someone who's at least trying to find scum and share their reads freely. This is way more than you can say for Kirby. So I am pushing Chrom now. I find his defense unholy and I want to see how far he wants to bring this defense. So I make a timeline that is not favoring superflous. But hey, this is why everybody has the superflous scumvibe. Look how Chrom counters this timeline. Chrom says I leave out all the reads Super makes on Xzavier and Hz + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 06:41 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 06:32 Koshi wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 06:07 Koshi wrote:
Superflous timeline
Why the fuck Xzavier? Super his first and second post are about not lynching on the first day and now he starts a vote train. I think because he thinks days take 24hours?
Conclusion: This isn't town play. this is surviving. Surviving because he is blue or scum? I say scum because of that last vote. Comments on this Chrom? Isn't this exactly what Super did? Read his filter after reading this. I think it's misrepresenting Super's play to make it sound worse than it is. Show nested quote +Entrance with post that no lynch is an option. 1h20m laterApologizing for being gone, defending his previous post in 8 lines. Mentions he has no reads, but cloud didn't post anythinh 2h20m laterapalogising for saying cloud was afk. (in 4 lines) Biggest scumread is HZ, because Umasi is town and HZ commented on Umasi. the read was because he thought hz was using bad logic AND because he posted fluff in the early gameMentions NightCat to be town, Xzavier is scum because Xzavier says Super is scum (Remember Umasi was allowed to do so) he didn't call nightcat town, he didn't like xzavier for lurking and then jumping on him11hours later3rd time sucking up to Umasi. mentions Koshi and Gotard are town. apparently explaining a townread == sucking up now4h 30min laterSuper is alarmed that H.Sponge is disagreeing with him. But maybe Sponge is scummy? Super not making a case but he mentions some things. Eventually a couple times apologizing as well. this is bringing suspicions to the thread and is townie1h later Super goes to a concert and votes Xzavier. his top scum readyou also leave out all of the posts where he is explaining his reads on hz and Xzav Now I admit that I don't really know why I was being the caps lock lunatic. But I looked up all the superflous posts that contained "reads" on Xzavier. I suggest you do the same. There are 3(?) total and 2 are quoted in this post. Look at the 5 reasons Chroms shakes out of his head. Read Xzav his log and he didn't do much but he made 1 big post, the post where he putted Superflous on top of his scumlist, but he talked about 3-4 people iirc. This post contained more than Super did, and on a moment Sponge knew this as well. I don't see why he forgot it during the lynch. + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 07:01 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 06:53 Koshi wrote:On July 14 2013 04:45 Superfluous wrote:
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough in my posts, but my reasons for Hzflank and xzavier were not only because of association. I am suspicious of Hzflank because he had posts which didn't contribute or add anything (he defended it by saying it's his style of getting discussion started) and because he posted early on then didn't post much afterwards. Xzavier didn't post at all, then showed up and basically agreed with what had been said. He also said I was his biggest scum read but wasn't ready yet to vote for me. It struck me the wrong WAY, and I interpreted it as he was waiting for a reason to lynch me, not that he wasn't going to at all. Again, my interpretation here, but I already listed these reasons in previous posts just want to make it clearer. On July 14 2013 04:51 Superfluous wrote:
I'm pointing out Sponge as a possibility as he has seemed to be clear from suspicion after jrkirby's early pressure. Xzavier is my biggest scum read atm for the reasons listed. I have a gut feeling and really have not liked the tone in his posts. Look at ALL THE REASONS SUPER GIVES. WOOOOWWWWOWWW You sure suddenly have very strong feelings about Super when he wasn't even a scumread not too long ago. There's no way you honestly believe that those are his only reasons. I control-F'd "Xzavier" in his filter and here's the reasons I found: 1) Xzav lurked before suddenly jumping on him 2) Xzav read him as scum 3) Xzav hasn't contributed 4) Xzav lurked and then sheeped thread sentiment by voting for him 5) Gut read I personally agree with points 3 and 4, that's why I don't like Xzav. I find it hard to believe that you honestly missed all of these posts. I want everybody to read super his log and READ what he says about xzavier. Then tell me why Chrom thinks Super is so special? Anyway, Chrom seems to be unaware that I am targetting him at this point. At this point I start to think that Super must be scum on top of the fact that Chrom is defending him without a good case, Chrom doesn't want to play this game with only 2 scums. Come on. How can Chrom blatantly ignore Kirby his case on Godart but find 5(!) reasons in the 2 quoted posts from superflous. + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 07:19 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 07:06 Koshi wrote:On July 15 2013 07:01 Chromatically wrote:On July 15 2013 06:53 Koshi wrote:On July 14 2013 04:45 Superfluous wrote:
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough in my posts, but my reasons for Hzflank and xzavier were not only because of association. I am suspicious of Hzflank because he had posts which didn't contribute or add anything (he defended it by saying it's his style of getting discussion started) and because he posted early on then didn't post much afterwards. Xzavier didn't post at all, then showed up and basically agreed with what had been said. He also said I was his biggest scum read but wasn't ready yet to vote for me. It struck me the wrong WAY, and I interpreted it as he was waiting for a reason to lynch me, not that he wasn't going to at all. Again, my interpretation here, but I already listed these reasons in previous posts just want to make it clearer. On July 14 2013 04:51 Superfluous wrote:
I'm pointing out Sponge as a possibility as he has seemed to be clear from suspicion after jrkirby's early pressure. Xzavier is my biggest scum read atm for the reasons listed. I have a gut feeling and really have not liked the tone in his posts. Look at ALL THE REASONS SUPER GIVES. WOOOOWWWWOWWW You sure suddenly have very strong feelings about Super when he wasn't even a scumread not too long ago. There's no way you honestly believe that those are his only reasons. I control-F'd "Xzavier" in his filter and here's the reasons I found: 1) Xzav lurked before suddenly jumping on him JEEZ THIS IS SCUMMY2) Xzav read him as scum SO DID UMASI3) Xzav hasn't contributed YES HE DID? READ THE ENTIRE XZAV POST WHERE HE ALSO MENTIONS SUPER 4) Xzav lurked and then sheeped thread sentiment by voting for him SHEEPED WHO? UMASI? 5) Gut read CRAZYYYYYYYYY I personally agree with points 3 and 4, that's why I don't like Xzav. I find it hard to believe that you honestly missed all of these posts. I capslocked my response. I quoted all 3 posts of Super about Xzavier You were able to find 5 points? I am having a feeling that you are all-in on this Kirby vs Super lynch? Chrom, you are going to look very bad when Super turns red. You realise that? Why are you suddenly defending Xzavier? We're discussing Super, not Xzavier. It doesn't even matter if his points are good (even though 3 and 4 are), it just matters that they exist and come from a town POV. Super has 7 posts about Xzav. Here are the two: Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 04:29 Superfluous wrote:Going back through the posts, I'm a little alarmed at Hurricane Sponge's change of tone. In this post he disagrees with my opinion and says it casts suspicion on me, but doesnt state that I'm a huge scumread or anything. Here I interpreted his post as acknowledging that while we disagree, I was still trying to state my opinion and reasons for having that view. He then says some weird things here though. For instance, he says that he agrees with others' view of me who had semi-defended me, and in the same list puts me as the only scum read. I realize his view may have changed, but it strikes me especially considering in the second post I listed he acknowledged the possibility of a bandwagon on me just because of differing opinions. We also have a mutual disagreement on reads as well. I don't see how hzflank and xzavier have contributed substantially more than me. While knowing everyone's scum reads is good, I don't like it when people show up, say their scum reads, then expect other people to act on them. As for Stim I think he's more likely bad town then mafia. Then again everyone else is saying the same thing, so could be mafia excuse for not lynching him. Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 04:45 Superfluous wrote:
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough in my posts, but my reasons for Hzflank and xzavier were not only because of association. I am suspicious of Hzflank because he had posts which didn't contribute or add anything (he defended it by saying it's his style of getting discussion started) and because he posted early on then didn't post much afterwards. Xzavier didn't post at all, then showed up and basically agreed with what had been said. He also said I was his biggest scum read but wasn't ready yet to vote for me. It struck me the wrong WAY, and I interpreted it as he was waiting for a reason to lynch me, not that he wasn't going to at all. Again, my interpretation here, but I already listed these reasons in previous posts just want to make it clearer. On July 15 2013 21:42 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 21:28 Onegu wrote:On July 15 2013 21:14 Koshi wrote:EDITED VERSION OF THE POST ABOVE THISOn July 15 2013 20:09 Onegu wrote:On July 15 2013 16:27 Koshi wrote:On July 15 2013 09:16 Chromatically wrote:
ahhhhhhhhhh
The case on Kirby was better than the one on Super, Kirby only looked town for the last ~10 minutes. I'll stand by that.
One of Super or Koshi is scum. Koshi's hard defense of Kirby with little reasoning looks like it could be scum trying to get town cred from a town flip to me. I'll also look at Nightcat because he didn't care about who was lynched at all. @OneguCan you please comment on this post by Chroma? I don't want you to comment solely on Chroma, but give your own opinion on the different parts of it. 1)One of Super or Koshi is scum a) Multiple times Chroma said Super wasn't scum, kirby flip shouldn't affect this. Your opinion? b) Why is it Super or Koshi? What is the connection between us? 2) Koshi's hard defense of Kirby with little reasoning looks like it could be scum trying to get town cred from a town flip. a) Do you agree that superfluou would have been a better lynch over kirby? Why? I think that kirby could have been more useful and easier to read Day 2. 1. I dont understand this, its like saying kirby or chrome is scum. It doesnt make sense find reasons for them being scum and then use votes as iceing on the cake.2. I will be biased here because I know the flip already so it is hard for me to answer this. I dont think super is scum. You guys hardly ever went off bandwagon. You let hurricane control this, not saying it is 100% your fault as anyone could have spoken up. I feel it is easier for scum to hide in majority lynch as there wont be 3 bandwagons so when all the votes will be on only 2 people scum has good reasons for being on a bandwagon as it is harder to analyse flips because no one will be off a bandwaggon. You got to know that Chroma was defending Super the whole time, I can quote Chroma a couple times where he says Super is NOT scum. Him suddenly typing that either Super or I might be scum because Jirby flipped town is suspicious because it is illogical as hell to go change on Super. You must know that Chroma had been defending Super 6 hours, he read all Super his logs, he thought all super his actions through, and then when kirby flips town Super is suspicious? That doesn't make sense, you don't think like that. Unless you already know that Super is scum and you are creating a distance? Why did Chroma add that it is Super or Koshi?
There is no correlation between me and Super. You can not make this assumption. Why is Chroma saying this? Maybe trying to keep the option "Koshi" open and try to save Super after all?There are more posts like this. Where Chroma made suspicious posts that no townie would do. Like seeing that Superfluous made a case against Xzavier. No Townie here saw that. Nobody saw that case like Chroma saw it. I am not willing to also point that out again. But if you want... The difference between my bad play (tunneling super) and Chroma his bad play(tunneling on kirby) is that Chroma did silly things that no Townie would do. You disagree? I dont know why he did this, and he needs to answer. What I am saying is it is the same thing as saying kirby or chrome is scum, neither statement has any foundation. I will go over chromes filter, but while reading the thread I remember agreeing with alot of his points early in the game and most scum arent leading one of the day 1 bandwagons, which made me slightly town on him. I want to say something real fast also, defending someone even if they flip scum is a scumtell, at least that is what happahuli told me in scum QT NMMXLII. Chrom said a lot of things that you could agree with, he made me look silly sometimes. But that doesn't mean he isn't scum. You have to look at some of the assumptions he made, the ignoring of the defense Kirby made, the ignoring of the case vs Godart that Kirby made. There is a post where Chroma defends Super by saying that survival is a townplay, and that is a town thing to do when somebody makes a case against you that you defend yourself. It was a really good post by Chroma. But why did Chroma ignore the BIG DEFENSE Kirby made on Chroma his post about Kirby. Chroma gave it not enough attention at all, and it was a really good defense. This is suspicious. There are really multiple things like this. Chroma makes good posts but ignores obvious things that someone like Chroma doesn't do on purpose. Seems weird to me that he takes aggressive stance like that after saying "others should FOLLOW lead" he's ignoring his own advice. But is it scummy or not? Problem is that his advice was scummy so playing against it was pro town but at the same time i don't see how his "all caps madness" was beneficial for town. So I see that like his trying to sheep Chromatically after bad lynch day one. Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 07:46 Koshi wrote:On July 15 2013 07:43 Chromatically wrote:
I would consolidate if it is literally the only way to avoid a no lynch. THIS IS BULLSHIT TOWN WE ARE GOING TO GET SO MUCH INFO WHEN WE LYNCH THERE ARE ONLY 3 FUCKING SCUMS. A MISSLYNCH IS NOT BAD. ARE YOU PEOPLE KIDDING ME? WE ALL AGREED THAT LYNCHING WAS GOOD. AND NOW CHROM WANTS TO PROTECT SUPER SO MADLY THAT A NO LYNHC IS OK? WE AGREE THAT THEY BOTH LOOK SCUM. FUCK THIS Getting mad after misreading. Emotional plays like that indicates bad town to me. Unless he wants to fake being mad after I defended Stim. And the most important note : he can't spell my name.
Quoted above is an example of one of Gotard's reads. It looks like he's making a scumcase, but apparently he thinks he's town. You've made a lot of cases for people being town, but I haven't seen significant scumhunting aside from a vote on Kirby here...
On July 14 2013 08:22 Gotard wrote:
Jrkirby looks like a better lynch than Superfluous right now.
Why not Superfluous? He isn't afraid to share his strong reads. His posts aren't full of useless crap (Hello Rainbows!) even when he isn't 100% right which concerns me. More pro town that jrkirby in general feel.
Why Jrkirby? I don't see him making pro town content. His post claiming that hzflank is mafia was awkward and then he defended himself saying that it was only a joke/pressure combo. Then posing useless lurker list (seems like every newbie game needs one). But as far as his interaction with stim goes I think you are overthinking it.
##vote: jrkirby.
... and the follow-up here:
On July 14 2013 08:22 Gotard wrote:
Jrkirby looks like a better lynch than Superfluous right now.
Why not Superfluous? He isn't afraid to share his strong reads. His posts aren't full of useless crap (Hello Rainbows!) even when he isn't 100% right which concerns me. More pro town that jrkirby in general feel.
Why Jrkirby? I don't see him making pro town content. His post claiming that hzflank is mafia was awkward and then he defended himself saying that it was only a joke/pressure combo. Then posing useless lurker list (seems like every newbie game needs one). But as far as his interaction with stim goes I think you are overthinking it.
##vote: jrkirby.
On July 14 2013 19:12 Gotard wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 08:36 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Do you think Superfluous is Town? I would say him being scum is more likely even now than it was before because he can't really defend himself. Yes, he had some pro town post giving his reads in semi-aggressive way but then he writes something like that: Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 05:14 Superfluous wrote:
Admittedly I am giving reads more to get off my back than to help us. My problem is that after seeing stuff like that i usually tend to think: "Isn't it to easy to be true" and I would put mistakes like that into inexperience basket but he admitted himself that he played mafia on some other forums... His way of getting out of trouble doesn't seem pro town whatsoever so i have to say hi's scum if he won't change anything in his posting. Overall I still think jrkirby is a little bit more scummy.
@Gotard
I'd like to hear who your top 2 scum reads are as of right now.
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On July 17 2013 03:20 Onegu wrote:
Really that is just a small part, the big thing is you created a group of people who you made sure was ok with either lynch, and then made sure it stayed where it was. And you said it was needed, but in reality was in no way needed.
Read the thread. I actually floated the idea of moving the lynch to someone else before the deadline once we had the votes. That's one of the weaker points of your argument to me. Read the posts before the deadline carefully: You'll see it was Umasi, StiM(yourself) and Xzavier who resisted the lynch:
On July 15 2013 08:31 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
DOUBLE SECRET TRIBUNAL MEETING
Attn: If you are not part of the Incredible Tribunal For Make Great Benefit Lynching Daily, you must stop reading this post now and cover your eyes.
Alright, now that all the legit folks are in here, I think we've gotten some useful information. We've confirmed that we control 4 mobile votes today (this may change in the future). Sponge, Umasi, Rainbows, Nightcat.
In addition, we have two semi-mobile votes in Chromatically (probably) and hzflank (maybe probably), both unconfirmed however. We could go after the scummiest Other. The more I think about Rainbow's 'town-town' claim, the more it seems like a possibility. I'm still leaning Super as scummiest, but we can talk about that after I get thoughts on the following play:
We could totally drop Gotard or Koshi tonight if we wanted.
Koshi is in the 'too scum to be scum' category for me right now. Gonna dive his filter. Gotard is gotard. For right now, I want tribunal thoughts on this play.
The resistance to moving off the established wagons:
On July 15 2013 08:33 Umasi wrote:
WHISPER WHISPER
Gotard, I do not think, is the best lynch
Koshi has said some good stuff, said some absolutely shit stuff, and is absolutely going to be incompetent as we get later in the game. I still think this is not town-town.
On July 15 2013 08:34 Xzavier wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 08:31 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
DOUBLE SECRET TRIBUNAL MEETING
Attn: If you are not part of the Incredible Tribunal For Make Great Benefit Lynching Daily, you must stop reading this post now and cover your eyes.
Alright, now that all the legit folks are in here, I think we've gotten some useful information. We've confirmed that we control 4 mobile votes today (this may change in the future). Sponge, Umasi, Rainbows, Nightcat.
In addition, we have two semi-mobile votes in Chromatically (probably) and hzflank (maybe probably), both unconfirmed however. We could go after the scummiest Other. The more I think about Rainbow's 'town-town' claim, the more it seems like a possibility. I'm still leaning Super as scummiest, but we can talk about that after I get thoughts on the following play:
We could totally drop Gotard or Koshi tonight if we wanted.
Koshi is in the 'too scum to be scum' category for me right now. Gonna dive his filter. Gotard is gotard. For right now, I want tribunal thoughts on this play. im worried that this is too big, i liked it when it was just you three, but when you add more you are giving an open invitation to sheep with little to no reason and nothing to lose if its a mislynch, because they were simply following orders. i dont think there is a scum in the core 3, but im super worried that scum can easily tag along and ride the wagon for free.
On July 15 2013 08:55 StiMaDDict wrote:
DO NOT SWITCH. TOO MUCH RISKY OF MISCOMMUNICATION. VOTE JKIRBY AND KEEP QUESTIONING KOSHI.
I stole my brother's phone btw.
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EBWOP: DEM TIMESTAMPS on the quotes. Too sexy. You're welcome.
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On July 17 2013 03:37 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 03:33 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 17 2013 03:20 Onegu wrote:
Really that is just a small part, the big thing is you created a group of people who you made sure was ok with either lynch, and then made sure it stayed where it was. And you said it was needed, but in reality was in no way needed. Read the thread. I actually floated the idea of moving the lynch to someone else before the deadline once we had the votes. That's one of the weaker points of your argument to me. Read the posts before the deadline carefully: You'll see it was Umasi, StiM(yourself) and Xzavier who resisted the lynch: On July 15 2013 08:31 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
DOUBLE SECRET TRIBUNAL MEETING
Attn: If you are not part of the Incredible Tribunal For Make Great Benefit Lynching Daily, you must stop reading this post now and cover your eyes.
Alright, now that all the legit folks are in here, I think we've gotten some useful information. We've confirmed that we control 4 mobile votes today (this may change in the future). Sponge, Umasi, Rainbows, Nightcat.
In addition, we have two semi-mobile votes in Chromatically (probably) and hzflank (maybe probably), both unconfirmed however. We could go after the scummiest Other. The more I think about Rainbow's 'town-town' claim, the more it seems like a possibility. I'm still leaning Super as scummiest, but we can talk about that after I get thoughts on the following play:
We could totally drop Gotard or Koshi tonight if we wanted.
Koshi is in the 'too scum to be scum' category for me right now. Gonna dive his filter. Gotard is gotard. For right now, I want tribunal thoughts on this play. The resistance to moving off the established wagons: On July 15 2013 08:33 Umasi wrote:
WHISPER WHISPER
Gotard, I do not think, is the best lynch
Koshi has said some good stuff, said some absolutely shit stuff, and is absolutely going to be incompetent as we get later in the game. I still think this is not town-town. On July 15 2013 08:34 Xzavier wrote:On July 15 2013 08:31 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
DOUBLE SECRET TRIBUNAL MEETING
Attn: If you are not part of the Incredible Tribunal For Make Great Benefit Lynching Daily, you must stop reading this post now and cover your eyes.
Alright, now that all the legit folks are in here, I think we've gotten some useful information. We've confirmed that we control 4 mobile votes today (this may change in the future). Sponge, Umasi, Rainbows, Nightcat.
In addition, we have two semi-mobile votes in Chromatically (probably) and hzflank (maybe probably), both unconfirmed however. We could go after the scummiest Other. The more I think about Rainbow's 'town-town' claim, the more it seems like a possibility. I'm still leaning Super as scummiest, but we can talk about that after I get thoughts on the following play:
We could totally drop Gotard or Koshi tonight if we wanted.
Koshi is in the 'too scum to be scum' category for me right now. Gonna dive his filter. Gotard is gotard. For right now, I want tribunal thoughts on this play. im worried that this is too big, i liked it when it was just you three, but when you add more you are giving an open invitation to sheep with little to no reason and nothing to lose if its a mislynch, because they were simply following orders. i dont think there is a scum in the core 3, but im super worried that scum can easily tag along and ride the wagon for free. On July 15 2013 08:55 StiMaDDict wrote:
DO NOT SWITCH. TOO MUCH RISKY OF MISCOMMUNICATION. VOTE JKIRBY AND KEEP QUESTIONING KOSHI.
I stole my brother's phone btw. You didnt make a case, and it was so close to the deadline it was to risky to switch like stim said, you should have known that. Second like I point out multiple time you recruit people are ok with the current wagons not some random other person.
The whole point of the Tribunal was to ensure that a lynch happened that day. To that end, a player who will not vote for one of the main wagons is useless for the purposes of ensuring a lynch. I'm starting to think you missed the entire point of the Tribunal.
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On July 17 2013 03:42 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 03:39 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 17 2013 03:37 Onegu wrote:On July 17 2013 03:33 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 17 2013 03:20 Onegu wrote:
Really that is just a small part, the big thing is you created a group of people who you made sure was ok with either lynch, and then made sure it stayed where it was. And you said it was needed, but in reality was in no way needed. Read the thread. I actually floated the idea of moving the lynch to someone else before the deadline once we had the votes. That's one of the weaker points of your argument to me. Read the posts before the deadline carefully: You'll see it was Umasi, StiM(yourself) and Xzavier who resisted the lynch: On July 15 2013 08:31 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
DOUBLE SECRET TRIBUNAL MEETING
Attn: If you are not part of the Incredible Tribunal For Make Great Benefit Lynching Daily, you must stop reading this post now and cover your eyes.
Alright, now that all the legit folks are in here, I think we've gotten some useful information. We've confirmed that we control 4 mobile votes today (this may change in the future). Sponge, Umasi, Rainbows, Nightcat.
In addition, we have two semi-mobile votes in Chromatically (probably) and hzflank (maybe probably), both unconfirmed however. We could go after the scummiest Other. The more I think about Rainbow's 'town-town' claim, the more it seems like a possibility. I'm still leaning Super as scummiest, but we can talk about that after I get thoughts on the following play:
We could totally drop Gotard or Koshi tonight if we wanted.
Koshi is in the 'too scum to be scum' category for me right now. Gonna dive his filter. Gotard is gotard. For right now, I want tribunal thoughts on this play. The resistance to moving off the established wagons: On July 15 2013 08:33 Umasi wrote:
WHISPER WHISPER
Gotard, I do not think, is the best lynch
Koshi has said some good stuff, said some absolutely shit stuff, and is absolutely going to be incompetent as we get later in the game. I still think this is not town-town. On July 15 2013 08:34 Xzavier wrote:On July 15 2013 08:31 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
DOUBLE SECRET TRIBUNAL MEETING
Attn: If you are not part of the Incredible Tribunal For Make Great Benefit Lynching Daily, you must stop reading this post now and cover your eyes.
Alright, now that all the legit folks are in here, I think we've gotten some useful information. We've confirmed that we control 4 mobile votes today (this may change in the future). Sponge, Umasi, Rainbows, Nightcat.
In addition, we have two semi-mobile votes in Chromatically (probably) and hzflank (maybe probably), both unconfirmed however. We could go after the scummiest Other. The more I think about Rainbow's 'town-town' claim, the more it seems like a possibility. I'm still leaning Super as scummiest, but we can talk about that after I get thoughts on the following play:
We could totally drop Gotard or Koshi tonight if we wanted.
Koshi is in the 'too scum to be scum' category for me right now. Gonna dive his filter. Gotard is gotard. For right now, I want tribunal thoughts on this play. im worried that this is too big, i liked it when it was just you three, but when you add more you are giving an open invitation to sheep with little to no reason and nothing to lose if its a mislynch, because they were simply following orders. i dont think there is a scum in the core 3, but im super worried that scum can easily tag along and ride the wagon for free. On July 15 2013 08:55 StiMaDDict wrote:
DO NOT SWITCH. TOO MUCH RISKY OF MISCOMMUNICATION. VOTE JKIRBY AND KEEP QUESTIONING KOSHI.
I stole my brother's phone btw. You didnt make a case, and it was so close to the deadline it was to risky to switch like stim said, you should have known that. Second like I point out multiple time you recruit people are ok with the current wagons not some random other person. The whole point of the Tribunal was to ensure that a lynch happened that day. To that end, a player who will not vote for one of the main wagons is useless for the purposes of ensuring a lynch. I'm starting to think you missed the entire point of the Tribunal. Did you read my point on why a tribunal wasnt needed?
No one spoke up in the thread saying it was a bad idea (correct me if I'm wrong), and you being Captain Hindsight doesn't really hold the biggest hammer in this argument.
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On July 17 2013 03:43 Onegu wrote:
On July 16 2013 01:53 Hurricane Sponge wrote:Show nested quote +For the record, the Tribunal is not a persistent entity. It was formed based on the flexible votes for the Day. Tomorrow, if it is necessary, it will be composed of an entirely new set of people (which may or may not include me). The group is valuable because it has vote mobility. It was necessary because Town needed to ensure a lynch.
It wont be necessary, it wasnt necessary. The only time we need to be afraid of vote switches for a no lynch is if there are a majority on one person who is scum and a second scum is on the same wagon, and the second scum jumps off for a mislynch, well guess what we now have 2 almost confirmed scum to lynch at that point. Only time this is really dangerous is if we are at yolo. Scum arent going to make a mislynch on someone not scum, and town better not be stupid enough to let a mislynch through. What you did was recruit people who you made sure were ok with only the current wagons and made sure no one got off. What you did was incredibly scummy here and I dont know why I am the only one who really sees what happened.
Scumslip.
In all seriousness, you're making a lot of assumptions for a newbie game. You may be the only one who sees it because it's wrong. We agreed as a town that we needed to lynch Day 1, no matter what. Forming the Tribunal served that end. By definition, it is a Pro-Town move. Captain Hindsight thinks it wasn't necessary because he can see the future and just absolutely positively knows that there won't be a No Lynch. You don't really have a foot to stand on here.
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Day 1 in a newbie game, I can certainly see someone moving their vote in confusion (or due to maliciousness) or making some other bad play regarding votes and it costing us a Day 1 lynch. Is it scummy? Maybe. Could a newbie make such a mistake? Absolutely.
The tribunal ensured SOMEBODY got bodied. It did its job. I doubt it will be needed as the days progress (less excuses to give re: confusion on voting rules), but it may. I won't rule it out. I probably wouldn't be the one leading it, though.
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On July 17 2013 03:49 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 03:05 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 17 2013 03:03 Chromatically wrote:On July 17 2013 03:02 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 17 2013 03:00 Chromatically wrote:On July 17 2013 02:17 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Running with that, if Super is scum, the next logical avenue to chase down is the Kirby lynch. If Superfluous is scum, then either he was bussed, or there were scum entrenched on the Kirby wagon. StiM/Onegu, Chromatically, and Gotard were the three entrenched votes. I don't think Onegu/StiM or Chromatically are scum (and Chrom offered that his vote was semi-mobile). But it's hard to believe that only one scum (Gotard, in this case) was on a wagon to save their team. So I guess a Day 1 bus is possible.
Chasing down the Bus Super avenue, that'd tag HZ as the only likely scum on that wagon (as the guy who started the wagon). Now, hz is a phenomenal mafia player, but that's a hell of a play. He was ready to paint his face and go to war to get Super lynched. Everyone has to make that call on their own. I don't think scum would bus like that, and most of the thread thinks hz is town.
Neither of these scenarios seem as likely as a town/town wagon with an arbitrary distribution of scumvotes to me. Is this association stuff the only reason why Super is town? Also, why did you think that scum would jump on you after you PUBLICLY pointed out several times that you thought scum would jump on you? So it wouldn't be written off as just OMGUS. That doesn't answer the question (either of them). Why would scum go "this guy expects us to jump on his wagon, we should obviously do that"? It's win-win. If they don't jump on me, then I won't die. If they do, then it gives us reads on scum. There's another reason that I'm not quite ready to share yet (time-sensitive), but I promise I will share it if it looks like my lynch is inevitable.(The above bolded is the reason I'm making this play) NO NO NO NO NO FUCK THAT FUCK THAT ALL THE WAY TO HELL JESUS I DON'T EVEN GET LIKE, A SCUM READ ON YOU THAT'S JUST STUPID you basically just said "well if my lynch is inevitable I will then post something useful to town" jeeeeezus tell me if I misunderstood horribly.
If you read between the lines, it will become clear. A closed mind is dangerous to the town.
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On July 17 2013 03:52 Onegu wrote:
I know town wont cause a mislynch only scum. So if a mislynch is caused it will be by scum, if that happens we lynch the person who was set to be lynched and the person who caused the mislynch. The only time scum can do this is at lynch or lose, not day one.
Haha what? You think every mislynch is driven by scum?
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On July 17 2013 03:55 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 03:51 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Day 1 in a newbie game, I can certainly see someone moving their vote in confusion (or due to maliciousness) or making some other bad play regarding votes and it costing us a Day 1 lynch. Is it scummy? Maybe. Could a newbie make such a mistake? Absolutely.
The tribunal ensured SOMEBODY got bodied. It did its job. I doubt it will be needed as the days progress (less excuses to give re: confusion on voting rules), but it may. I won't rule it out. I probably wouldn't be the one leading it, though. No because that is all you talked about for the first half of the day and on and off the whole day is there cant be a mislynch.
You have too much faith in newbies. And I think you mean 'No Lynch' when you say mislynch. Don't do that.
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On July 17 2013 03:59 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 03:56 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 17 2013 03:55 Onegu wrote:On July 17 2013 03:51 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Day 1 in a newbie game, I can certainly see someone moving their vote in confusion (or due to maliciousness) or making some other bad play regarding votes and it costing us a Day 1 lynch. Is it scummy? Maybe. Could a newbie make such a mistake? Absolutely.
The tribunal ensured SOMEBODY got bodied. It did its job. I doubt it will be needed as the days progress (less excuses to give re: confusion on voting rules), but it may. I won't rule it out. I probably wouldn't be the one leading it, though. No because that is all you talked about for the first half of the day and on and off the whole day is there cant be a mislynch. You have too much faith in newbies. And I think you mean 'No Lynch' when you say mislynch. Don't do that. I have faith that if it came down to the last 10 minutes and there was one vote short on someone that one of the players who understands would ensure the lynch, and no I dont see newbie town last second vote switching to cause a no lynch.
Then you have more faith in newbies than me. We had newbies who didn't know you could talk during night time. The intricacies and implications of the majority lynch rules is a much more complex concept than that.
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On July 17 2013 04:00 Chromatically wrote:
For the record, I will personally strangle anyone who sets up any sort of "tribunal" today.
Shouldn't be necessary if we all agree to hz's proposal that votes lock in an hour before deadline, and any movement thereafter is punishable by death.
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I understand majority lynch
And the dire consequences of shenanigans at the deadline.
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I think I prefer plurality too, but meh. I also hate 'voting threads'. Pet peeve.
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I didn't understand Chrom's roleblock claim. Did any analysis come of that? Were we able to deduce anything?
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On July 17 2013 04:30 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 04:19 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
I didn't understand Chrom's roleblock claim. Did any analysis come of that? Were we able to deduce anything? You always claim roleblocks, it helps on later nights. Who do you want to lynch?
No clear target right now. Super needs to post more or he becomes a frontrunner to hang. Gotard needs to give me his scum reads. I'm still waiting to see who else puts their vote on me. Alakaslam is oddly silent, but I've directed questions to him that he should be answering when he gets back. (Xzavier is my pick for SK. No one has answered my appeal to the thread on whether or not it would be worth it to try to ferret out the SK at this time.)
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On July 17 2013 04:36 hzflank wrote:
Chrom's roleblock claim might be interesting to me. I am missing a couple of pieces to a puzzle at the moment though. If I get to the point where it becomes relevant I will post about it. Otherwise it might become useful to everyone on day 3.
PR associations are extremely difficult when all we have are 3 VT flips, 1 RB claim and an unidentified SK.
Dat tactical fuzzy-claim
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On July 17 2013 04:53 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 04:43 Chromatically wrote:
SK might have been playing pro-town D1, he'll be more obvious over time.
hz, why do you think that Sponge is scum? Sponge should not be able to avoid pressure by saying that anyone who pressure's him is scum. If anyone wants to pressure Sponge then that does not make them look scummy to me. It's early in the day and Sponge is the best place to leave my vote. I did not like that Sponge refused to defend Onegu's case, because it stopped conversation about it from flowing. I could of defended Onegu's case reasonably well, but Sponge refused to do it himself.
Is reacting passively to pressure a scum-tell to you?
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On July 17 2013 05:04 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 04:55 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Is reacting passively to pressure a scum-tell to you? No. I do think that you over-reacted to his pressure though. As I said, I could of defended his case, so I am sure that you could have. You do not seem passive, you seem flustered. Did you not mention reading between the lines? Go back and read from the start of page 77 up until this point (with a clear head).
Ah. I think I see your point.
On July 17 2013 05:05 Chromatically wrote:
Are you planning on waiting until Super and Gotard post until talking about the case?
The case on me, or the case on them? I'll talk about the cases on them right now. Their posting is relatively independent of my thoughts on the case on me. I'll talk about the case on me once I see who's on it.
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Super's most recent reads:
On July 15 2013 07:41 Superfluous wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 06:53 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
@Superfluous
Can you post a list of your Town and Scum reads like kirby did in case you die tonight? Town: Chroma Umasi Hurricane (mostly because I really like this post) I did have that post calling you out earlier but you havent done anything similar since. Stimaddict (bad play revealing role but w/e) Jrkirby, though now I would lynch him to save myself seeing as its definitely coming to that. Maf: Xzavier Koshi Insert Lurker here Hzflank (weakest tho) I'll point out again how hard koshi is going on me and in some ways trying to distract from jkirby/discredit chroma. If Either of them flip maf I'd be suspicious of the other, though the same could be said of me and chroma I suppose.
Gotard's most recent reads (albeit still ancient):
On July 14 2013 05:32 Gotard wrote:
I didn't want to bring any names to the table because "my biggest scum reads" were weak because it was an early stage of the game and I wanted to stop Chromatically from tunneling Stim (saying my thoughts straight made me explaining myself for whole day in the last game I played and I would be lynched if mafia didn't make silly mistakes and few other townies said that i'm bad and not mafia. The same think i did with stim).
"All he's done is confirm town reads. Mathematically, he thinks more people are town than is possible:"
My "biggest" reads:
1) hzflank - cold, calculated. Null read.
4) jrkirby - confuses me a little. But he has a similar view on StiMaDDict as i do.
5) Koshi - inexperienced or lurking hard.
6) Xzavier - one good post [...] Need to see some more activity from him to have a read
8) Nightcat99 - lurking newbie.
13) cloud-9 - US timezone and 0 posts.
and Rainbows seemed really confusing.
you have some possible people to choose from...
You need to understand that if someone is 99.9% town for me he still might be mafia but it's highly unlikely and don't say "Mathematically" if you can't prove something "Mathematically" (you didn't even try rotfl).
At the time of them posting these, I sort of felt similar to Super (and chalked up his hz scum read as OMGUS). I'm still trying to figure out why he behaved how he did with his vote on Day 1. Xzavier was his scum read (also could have been OMGUS), but he admits he thought Kirby was town (but that he'd vote for him to save his skin, something he never ended up not doing, either through inactivity or inscrutable play.)
Gotard's reads are as 'don't rock the boat' as it gets, but when pressured to give actual scum reads, he posted that. Still not exactly shoveling dirt on anyone, but I guess we can interpret it as him disclosing that his criteria for 'scummy' is based on two things:
1.) Lurking
2.) Being confusing to him
I posted his only scumhunting a page or two back. It was a weak case claiming Super was going to be more useful than Kirby. (A POV I didn't understand, as I thought both looked scummy. Defending one to get votes on the other was a poor strategy in my opinion for the Day 1 Lynch)
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EBWOP: something he ended up not going* (re: voting on kirby to save himself)
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Building on that, Gotard ended up voting for someone who indeed confused him (kirby), but inarguably was the more active player. So his vote is inconsistent with his read criteria as far as I can tell. Gotard does apparently support Superfluous very early though (in the form of a list post):
On July 13 2013 19:53 Gotard wrote:Hello! After some lurking (jk I was sleeping) i'd like to share my thoughts: 1) hzflank - cold, calculated. Null read. 2) StiMaDDict - bad town. It would be too easy if he's mafia. 3) Chromatically - I think he's pushing stim too hard (he's agressive in general) but at the same time it's good for town to see some bandwagons going 4) jrkirby - confuses me a little.But he has a similar view on StiMaDDict as i do. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 13:38 jrkirby wrote:
I don't think he's town. I think he's stupid, and have a nullread. 5) Koshi - inexperienced or lurking hard. 6) Xzavier - one good post Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 04:58 Xzavier wrote:
its fine, all i have to do is show supporting evidence and never try to make my own case on gotard. No wait, that one was good. Need to see some more activity from him to have a read. I don't agree that lynching lurker is better than no lynch (9v3 > 8v3) 7) Rainbows - A lot of posts with minimum impact seems more townie than mafia. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:42 Rainbows wrote:
I play exactly the same as scum and town imo.
wtf? 8) Nightcat99 - lurking newbie. 9) Umasi - Very aggressive same as last game I played with him (He was town). 11) Hurricane Sponge - biggest town read. Really liked this post. 12) Superfluous - Town vibe.13) cloud-9 - US timezone and 0 posts.
Bold emphasis mine
So at least his vote isn't completely inconsistent with the reads he had early. If he really got a town vibe off Superfluous, his defense is consistent.
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On July 17 2013 05:30 hzflank wrote:Gotard seemed to scum-hunt Koshi. This post is the only thing in his filter that I would say can be considered scum-hunting: Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 02:44 Gotard wrote:On July 14 2013 04:14 Koshi wrote:
I would sheep. I have no targets that need to get lynched now. As promised Koshi's case: On July 13 2013 08:19 Koshi wrote:
@Hurricane Sponge
Koshi: I am still learning on how to play the game properly. I am extremely bad at scumhunting. I get very easily annoyed by people saying that I am scum (I am working on this). I love fluff posts. I hate illogical posts but it seems that illogical does not mean you are scum, however, I am not planning on ever making an illogical post and when I do please call me on it.
As you can see, I got a lot of bad qualities that make me look scum all the time. However, I always prove that I am town by trying and hopefully this game I can prove it by actually nailing some scumreads. Yeah he's bad so there is not much point to listen to him just ignore... On July 15 2013 00:10 Koshi wrote:
Guys, we need to get our shit together if we want a lynch. Don't forget we need at least 7 people on 1 guy. Both look perfect targets, let's try to come to a consensus now so that the more inactive people can follow us if they pop in.
I would say that Sponge and Umasi try to work this out and they give us final target? It seems that Chroma made the kirby case and that hzflank made the super case.
Me, StiM and all others should FOLLOW lead. all others should FOLLOW. Interesting. why would he want others to just follow? It's easy to hide as a scum if people are just following few leaders. And then trying to correct himself but it's still FOCUS ON THEM. On July 15 2013 00:13 Koshi wrote:
When you follow lead you should also give own reasoning obviously. But at this point we just need to pick one of these 2 targets. Change in his activity level is really interesting as well. He started with "hello i'm bad" lurking type of player and became 2nd Umasi (no offence) and he of course explained it. On July 15 2013 09:55 Koshi wrote:On July 15 2013 09:49 Chromatically wrote:
Why am I "smarter than that"? Weren't you just calling me "full of shit" a short bit ago? I actually think you are pretty smart. I was just screaming and kicking in the lynch so that I could get a good read on you and other people. Imagine how boring that last lynch would have been without the two of us. But I am currently having serious scum vibes coming from you. I am pretty sure that I am partially the reason why Kirby died. I played my role as lunatic in the start and people stopped listening to me. I tried to be more serious at the end of the lynch with my "Why Kirby is a better save than Super" but it was too late. But anyway, the only reason why I stopped being the lunatic is because I am 100% certain that your defense of Super is unholy. I hope that people will see the same reasoning. Also, with the green flip of kirby I should NEVER be seen as scum. Or I am that retard that wants to go 2 versus 11 with a bit of townkred from the Day 1 scum lynch. Personally I didn't find that defense particularly scummy. So Koshi's reasons: + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 09:18 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 09:14 Umasi wrote:
And also, how good of a target is Super to you, Chrom? Chrom is becoming the target and not Super. I hope I have time to make a good case in the next 24hours. Because the defense of Chrom was UNHOLY. Even if Super flips town, the reasoning of Chrom was getting out of control. At this point I feel If super is scum than 100% Chrom is scum. If super is town, 50% Chrom is scum. Reasoning --> That defense, he must have known Super was town, because that defense made 0 sense. I am not talking about kirby here. I am talking 100% Chrom putting his neck out for a guy that was not better than kirby. On July 15 2013 11:22 Koshi wrote:Red lights in my head after this post. + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 03:25 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 03:21 Koshi wrote:
Can we get a Super lynch going? Chromatically could you please consider this? Don't you think that Kirby is better for town if both Kirby and Super are at this point equally scum? Kirby posts much better than Super, if Kirby is scum I feel like it will be easier to catch him later on than Super.
I see that you guys (StiM, Croma) are thinking that I am scum. It's fine by me, we can discuss it later, I am not going to stop posting, I am during Europe times online A LOT, you can keep grilling me. This is blatantly untrue. Super actually posts scumreads with reasoning. Kirby does not. Chrom defending super. MAJOR RED LIGHTS going off in my head. You can see that I started being really active in this lynch right after this post below. + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 05:31 Chromatically wrote:I have to rewrite this because my computer crashed, so I'm just going to c/p the parts that hz wrote (without the quotes from Super). Original case is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=420227¤tpage=28#549The Super CaseShow nested quote +
Super introduces himself as a player who understands that people cannot always respond to posts quickly and as a player who thinks that applying pressure on other players is a good thing. His later posts do not exhibit these traits at all.
Before even starting to scum-hunt, Super is concerned with self-preservation. He is not even interested in getting good conversation flowing to produce information. Self-preservation comes first.
This isn't scummy. I've already talked about this at length, but everyone's first priority is to stay alive. If there was suspicion on me, my first priority is to remove it.Ask yourself: what would you do if you walked into the thread and there was a case on you? You'd defend yourself. Show nested quote +
One of the first things that Super says comes to his mind is that Cloud has not posted yet. Why is this the next thing that Super thinks of, after self-preservation? He later gives a reason but I cannot understand how he arrived at that train of thought.
? His reason makes sense. He didn't have time to do anything more than skim, so he called out someone he thought was lurking. Not particularly townie, but not at all scummy. Show nested quote +
Next Super says that he has not yet scum-hunted, but so far I was his biggest scum read. That would be fine if his reads were fluid after he actually did some scum-hunting. As we will see later though, his read on me persists until I really hammer home the point that there is no good town motivation for his read on me.
This isn't scummy. Bad reads =/= scum, bad townies make bad reads all of the time. You say there's no town motivation, but there's really no scum motivation. Scum know that they won't get a mislynch on you, so they have no reason to scumread you. Show nested quote +
Also, why is he so worried that posting this early read might push him to being lynched? I think that it is because he already knows that he cannot actually justify his read on me.
I didn't really understand what he was saying in that sentence. Show nested quote +
Next, Super calls me a lurker but says that the other Europeans should be excused for not posting much. I had already made several posts at this point and am a European myself.
This isn't scummy. This is bad reasoning. Bad reasoning often comes from bad town. If anything, this is overzealous scumhunting. Show nested quote +
He says that he wants to see more from me, but does not give any indication of what he wants to see. When I later make posts directed towards him he completely ignores then as though they are invisible. If he had a scum read on me and wanted to see more, why does he not reply to my posts?
This, once again, isn't scummy. If I say that I want a scumread to post more, that does NOT mean that I'm planning on replying to them. All it means is that I want them to post their reads and reasoning more often. I'm probably NOT going to reply to them, most of the time, unless I have something in particular to say. I cannot understand why you think this is bad. Show nested quote +
Next Super says that he still thinks I am scum. His reasons are that I have not posted anything which contributed to finding scum. I may be biased on this point, but I do not see how a town Super could say that I had not been contributing. Note that I stopped playing at around 2 AM my time last night, but Super seems to think that it was scummy of me to stop posting. Why would a town player think that?
Once again, bad logic =/= scum. Show nested quote +
Now, Super is still more concerned with self-preservation that with finding scum. He also gently suggests that we should consider a no lynch. If a town player was under pressure at this point they would push a scum-read as hard as they could, but they would not try for a no lynch. Super switches his primary scum read from me to Xzavier, without ever saying why I suddenly became less scummy or Xzavier became more scummy (as Xzavier has not posted in a long time). This is still self-preservation without pushing a scum target with any significant force.
Why would a scum player say that they were just giving reads in self defense? I'll admit that this is a decent point though. So almost all of hz's case is stuff that isn't scummy. When I look at Super's filter, I see someone who's at least trying to find scum and share their reads freely. This is way more than you can say for Kirby. So I am pushing Chrom now. I find his defense unholy and I want to see how far he wants to bring this defense. So I make a timeline that is not favoring superflous. But hey, this is why everybody has the superflous scumvibe. Look how Chrom counters this timeline. Chrom says I leave out all the reads Super makes on Xzavier and Hz + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 06:41 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 06:32 Koshi wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 06:07 Koshi wrote:
Superflous timeline
Why the fuck Xzavier? Super his first and second post are about not lynching on the first day and now he starts a vote train. I think because he thinks days take 24hours?
Conclusion: This isn't town play. this is surviving. Surviving because he is blue or scum? I say scum because of that last vote. Comments on this Chrom? Isn't this exactly what Super did? Read his filter after reading this. I think it's misrepresenting Super's play to make it sound worse than it is. Show nested quote +Entrance with post that no lynch is an option. 1h20m laterApologizing for being gone, defending his previous post in 8 lines. Mentions he has no reads, but cloud didn't post anythinh 2h20m laterapalogising for saying cloud was afk. (in 4 lines) Biggest scumread is HZ, because Umasi is town and HZ commented on Umasi. the read was because he thought hz was using bad logic AND because he posted fluff in the early gameMentions NightCat to be town, Xzavier is scum because Xzavier says Super is scum (Remember Umasi was allowed to do so) he didn't call nightcat town, he didn't like xzavier for lurking and then jumping on him11hours later3rd time sucking up to Umasi. mentions Koshi and Gotard are town. apparently explaining a townread == sucking up now4h 30min laterSuper is alarmed that H.Sponge is disagreeing with him. But maybe Sponge is scummy? Super not making a case but he mentions some things. Eventually a couple times apologizing as well. this is bringing suspicions to the thread and is townie1h later Super goes to a concert and votes Xzavier. his top scum readyou also leave out all of the posts where he is explaining his reads on hz and Xzav Now I admit that I don't really know why I was being the caps lock lunatic. But I looked up all the superflous posts that contained "reads" on Xzavier. I suggest you do the same. There are 3(?) total and 2 are quoted in this post. Look at the 5 reasons Chroms shakes out of his head. Read Xzav his log and he didn't do much but he made 1 big post, the post where he putted Superflous on top of his scumlist, but he talked about 3-4 people iirc. This post contained more than Super did, and on a moment Sponge knew this as well. I don't see why he forgot it during the lynch. + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 07:01 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 06:53 Koshi wrote:On July 14 2013 04:45 Superfluous wrote:
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough in my posts, but my reasons for Hzflank and xzavier were not only because of association. I am suspicious of Hzflank because he had posts which didn't contribute or add anything (he defended it by saying it's his style of getting discussion started) and because he posted early on then didn't post much afterwards. Xzavier didn't post at all, then showed up and basically agreed with what had been said. He also said I was his biggest scum read but wasn't ready yet to vote for me. It struck me the wrong WAY, and I interpreted it as he was waiting for a reason to lynch me, not that he wasn't going to at all. Again, my interpretation here, but I already listed these reasons in previous posts just want to make it clearer. On July 14 2013 04:51 Superfluous wrote:
I'm pointing out Sponge as a possibility as he has seemed to be clear from suspicion after jrkirby's early pressure. Xzavier is my biggest scum read atm for the reasons listed. I have a gut feeling and really have not liked the tone in his posts. Look at ALL THE REASONS SUPER GIVES. WOOOOWWWWOWWW You sure suddenly have very strong feelings about Super when he wasn't even a scumread not too long ago. There's no way you honestly believe that those are his only reasons. I control-F'd "Xzavier" in his filter and here's the reasons I found: 1) Xzav lurked before suddenly jumping on him 2) Xzav read him as scum 3) Xzav hasn't contributed 4) Xzav lurked and then sheeped thread sentiment by voting for him 5) Gut read I personally agree with points 3 and 4, that's why I don't like Xzav. I find it hard to believe that you honestly missed all of these posts. I want everybody to read super his log and READ what he says about xzavier. Then tell me why Chrom thinks Super is so special? Anyway, Chrom seems to be unaware that I am targetting him at this point. At this point I start to think that Super must be scum on top of the fact that Chrom is defending him without a good case, Chrom doesn't want to play this game with only 2 scums. Come on. How can Chrom blatantly ignore Kirby his case on Godart but find 5(!) reasons in the 2 quoted posts from superflous. + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 07:19 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 07:06 Koshi wrote:On July 15 2013 07:01 Chromatically wrote:On July 15 2013 06:53 Koshi wrote:On July 14 2013 04:45 Superfluous wrote:
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough in my posts, but my reasons for Hzflank and xzavier were not only because of association. I am suspicious of Hzflank because he had posts which didn't contribute or add anything (he defended it by saying it's his style of getting discussion started) and because he posted early on then didn't post much afterwards. Xzavier didn't post at all, then showed up and basically agreed with what had been said. He also said I was his biggest scum read but wasn't ready yet to vote for me. It struck me the wrong WAY, and I interpreted it as he was waiting for a reason to lynch me, not that he wasn't going to at all. Again, my interpretation here, but I already listed these reasons in previous posts just want to make it clearer. On July 14 2013 04:51 Superfluous wrote:
I'm pointing out Sponge as a possibility as he has seemed to be clear from suspicion after jrkirby's early pressure. Xzavier is my biggest scum read atm for the reasons listed. I have a gut feeling and really have not liked the tone in his posts. Look at ALL THE REASONS SUPER GIVES. WOOOOWWWWOWWW You sure suddenly have very strong feelings about Super when he wasn't even a scumread not too long ago. There's no way you honestly believe that those are his only reasons. I control-F'd "Xzavier" in his filter and here's the reasons I found: 1) Xzav lurked before suddenly jumping on him JEEZ THIS IS SCUMMY2) Xzav read him as scum SO DID UMASI3) Xzav hasn't contributed YES HE DID? READ THE ENTIRE XZAV POST WHERE HE ALSO MENTIONS SUPER 4) Xzav lurked and then sheeped thread sentiment by voting for him SHEEPED WHO? UMASI? 5) Gut read CRAZYYYYYYYYY I personally agree with points 3 and 4, that's why I don't like Xzav. I find it hard to believe that you honestly missed all of these posts. I capslocked my response. I quoted all 3 posts of Super about Xzavier You were able to find 5 points? I am having a feeling that you are all-in on this Kirby vs Super lynch? Chrom, you are going to look very bad when Super turns red. You realise that? Why are you suddenly defending Xzavier? We're discussing Super, not Xzavier. It doesn't even matter if his points are good (even though 3 and 4 are), it just matters that they exist and come from a town POV. Super has 7 posts about Xzav. Here are the two: Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 04:29 Superfluous wrote:Going back through the posts, I'm a little alarmed at Hurricane Sponge's change of tone. In this post he disagrees with my opinion and says it casts suspicion on me, but doesnt state that I'm a huge scumread or anything. Here I interpreted his post as acknowledging that while we disagree, I was still trying to state my opinion and reasons for having that view. He then says some weird things here though. For instance, he says that he agrees with others' view of me who had semi-defended me, and in the same list puts me as the only scum read. I realize his view may have changed, but it strikes me especially considering in the second post I listed he acknowledged the possibility of a bandwagon on me just because of differing opinions. We also have a mutual disagreement on reads as well. I don't see how hzflank and xzavier have contributed substantially more than me. While knowing everyone's scum reads is good, I don't like it when people show up, say their scum reads, then expect other people to act on them. As for Stim I think he's more likely bad town then mafia. Then again everyone else is saying the same thing, so could be mafia excuse for not lynching him. Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 04:45 Superfluous wrote:
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough in my posts, but my reasons for Hzflank and xzavier were not only because of association. I am suspicious of Hzflank because he had posts which didn't contribute or add anything (he defended it by saying it's his style of getting discussion started) and because he posted early on then didn't post much afterwards. Xzavier didn't post at all, then showed up and basically agreed with what had been said. He also said I was his biggest scum read but wasn't ready yet to vote for me. It struck me the wrong WAY, and I interpreted it as he was waiting for a reason to lynch me, not that he wasn't going to at all. Again, my interpretation here, but I already listed these reasons in previous posts just want to make it clearer. On July 15 2013 21:42 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 21:28 Onegu wrote:On July 15 2013 21:14 Koshi wrote:EDITED VERSION OF THE POST ABOVE THISOn July 15 2013 20:09 Onegu wrote:On July 15 2013 16:27 Koshi wrote:On July 15 2013 09:16 Chromatically wrote:
ahhhhhhhhhh
The case on Kirby was better than the one on Super, Kirby only looked town for the last ~10 minutes. I'll stand by that.
One of Super or Koshi is scum. Koshi's hard defense of Kirby with little reasoning looks like it could be scum trying to get town cred from a town flip to me. I'll also look at Nightcat because he didn't care about who was lynched at all. @OneguCan you please comment on this post by Chroma? I don't want you to comment solely on Chroma, but give your own opinion on the different parts of it. 1)One of Super or Koshi is scum a) Multiple times Chroma said Super wasn't scum, kirby flip shouldn't affect this. Your opinion? b) Why is it Super or Koshi? What is the connection between us? 2) Koshi's hard defense of Kirby with little reasoning looks like it could be scum trying to get town cred from a town flip. a) Do you agree that superfluou would have been a better lynch over kirby? Why? I think that kirby could have been more useful and easier to read Day 2. 1. I dont understand this, its like saying kirby or chrome is scum. It doesnt make sense find reasons for them being scum and then use votes as iceing on the cake.2. I will be biased here because I know the flip already so it is hard for me to answer this. I dont think super is scum. You guys hardly ever went off bandwagon. You let hurricane control this, not saying it is 100% your fault as anyone could have spoken up. I feel it is easier for scum to hide in majority lynch as there wont be 3 bandwagons so when all the votes will be on only 2 people scum has good reasons for being on a bandwagon as it is harder to analyse flips because no one will be off a bandwaggon. You got to know that Chroma was defending Super the whole time, I can quote Chroma a couple times where he says Super is NOT scum. Him suddenly typing that either Super or I might be scum because Jirby flipped town is suspicious because it is illogical as hell to go change on Super. You must know that Chroma had been defending Super 6 hours, he read all Super his logs, he thought all super his actions through, and then when kirby flips town Super is suspicious? That doesn't make sense, you don't think like that. Unless you already know that Super is scum and you are creating a distance? Why did Chroma add that it is Super or Koshi?
There is no correlation between me and Super. You can not make this assumption. Why is Chroma saying this? Maybe trying to keep the option "Koshi" open and try to save Super after all?There are more posts like this. Where Chroma made suspicious posts that no townie would do. Like seeing that Superfluous made a case against Xzavier. No Townie here saw that. Nobody saw that case like Chroma saw it. I am not willing to also point that out again. But if you want... The difference between my bad play (tunneling super) and Chroma his bad play(tunneling on kirby) is that Chroma did silly things that no Townie would do. You disagree? I dont know why he did this, and he needs to answer. What I am saying is it is the same thing as saying kirby or chrome is scum, neither statement has any foundation. I will go over chromes filter, but while reading the thread I remember agreeing with alot of his points early in the game and most scum arent leading one of the day 1 bandwagons, which made me slightly town on him. I want to say something real fast also, defending someone even if they flip scum is a scumtell, at least that is what happahuli told me in scum QT NMMXLII. Chrom said a lot of things that you could agree with, he made me look silly sometimes. But that doesn't mean he isn't scum. You have to look at some of the assumptions he made, the ignoring of the defense Kirby made, the ignoring of the case vs Godart that Kirby made. There is a post where Chroma defends Super by saying that survival is a townplay, and that is a town thing to do when somebody makes a case against you that you defend yourself. It was a really good post by Chroma. But why did Chroma ignore the BIG DEFENSE Kirby made on Chroma his post about Kirby. Chroma gave it not enough attention at all, and it was a really good defense. This is suspicious. There are really multiple things like this. Chroma makes good posts but ignores obvious things that someone like Chroma doesn't do on purpose. Seems weird to me that he takes aggressive stance like that after saying "others should FOLLOW lead" he's ignoring his own advice. But is it scummy or not? Problem is that his advice was scummy so playing against it was pro town but at the same time i don't see how his "all caps madness" was beneficial for town. So I see that like his trying to sheep Chromatically after bad lynch day one. On July 15 2013 07:46 Koshi wrote:On July 15 2013 07:43 Chromatically wrote:
I would consolidate if it is literally the only way to avoid a no lynch. THIS IS BULLSHIT TOWN WE ARE GOING TO GET SO MUCH INFO WHEN WE LYNCH THERE ARE ONLY 3 FUCKING SCUMS. A MISSLYNCH IS NOT BAD. ARE YOU PEOPLE KIDDING ME? WE ALL AGREED THAT LYNCHING WAS GOOD. AND NOW CHROM WANTS TO PROTECT SUPER SO MADLY THAT A NO LYNHC IS OK? WE AGREE THAT THEY BOTH LOOK SCUM. FUCK THIS Getting mad after misreading. Emotional plays like that indicates bad town to me. Unless he wants to fake being mad after I defended Stim. And the most important note : he can't spell my name.
That's what I thought at first too. But look closer. Third to last sentence: "Emotional plays like that indicates bad town to me." At the end of the post, he apparently thinks Koshi is just 'bad town'. Turns out not to be a scumhunt after all?
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Although I do disagree with his logic. Emotional play in one-time reactionary posts (check time stamps, kids) are a null read for me. Only over prolonged debates does emotional posting give us valuable pro-town or scum reads.
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Full disclosure, if I had zero meta on Gotard, this lynch would be a no-brainer. But he let this happen to him in NMMXLII as a useless townie, too. That doesn't exonerate him, but it does tell us that sometimes bad play is just bad play.
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He really needs to post, though. Where you at, Gotard?
##vote: Gotard
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Meta is what's protecting him from me. I'm consciously ignoring it, and putting my vote on him.
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Yeah, I'm just sort of in a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't position here. I want Gotard and Super to post more, so we can get reads. The only way we can do this apparently is to pressure them. But we can only pressure one of them at a time, and the other one will continue being inactive (because "hey, why would I post if they're on the other guy"). Ideally, I want to get both of them posting today, and piling on Gotard means Super may not post.
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Has anyone supported Gotard as town at all in the thread? You'd think scumbuddies would have said something if he actually were mafia.
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Going through filters. If Gotard flips red, Super looks worse to me.
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This is the only dissenting material I could find between them:
On July 14 2013 19:12 Gotard wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 08:36 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Do you think Superfluous is Town? I would say him being scum is more likely even now than it was before because he can't really defend himself. Yes, he had some pro town post giving his reads in semi-aggressive way but then he writes something like that: Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 05:14 Superfluous wrote:
Admittedly I am giving reads more to get off my back than to help us. My problem is that after seeing stuff like that i usually tend to think: "Isn't it to easy to be true" and I would put mistakes like that into inexperience basket but he admitted himself that he played mafia on some other forums... His way of getting out of trouble doesn't seem pro town whatsoever so i have to say hi's scum if he won't change anything in his posting. Overall I still think jrkirby is a little bit more scummy.
The only occurrence of Gotard in Super's filter is him mentioning Time Zones:
On July 13 2013 23:56 Superfluous wrote:
To be fair to Umasi, he has stopped tunneling on me in terms of asking me stuff since I gave my 3rd or 4th post explaining my reads/ logic. I'd still like to here some more from Hzflank, cloud 9, night cat and other lurkers I've forgotten. Koshi and Gotard have euro time zones so it makes sense that they weren't active early on, and right now they are trying to contribute something so they're town reads for me.
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On July 15 2013 08:58 jrkirby wrote:
Ok, Gotard is an excellent lynch target tomorrow. I think chrom should only be lynched after a scum is found, but maybe checked by cop.
I have less of a feeling about koshi, umasi, super.
Xzavier is decent, but not the best lynch.
Chrom and super should be lynched together should one of them be scum by flip or cop check.
That's the best I got, GG guys.
Remember the dead
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On July 15 2013 09:18 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 09:14 Umasi wrote:
And also, how good of a target is Super to you, Chrom? Chrom is becoming the target and not Super. I hope I have time to make a good case in the next 24hours. Because the defense of Chrom was UNHOLY. Even if Super flips town, the reasoning of Chrom was getting out of control. At this point I feel If super is scum than 100% Chrom is scum. If super is town, 50% Chrom is scum. Reasoning --> That defense, he must have known Super was town, because that defense made 0 sense. I am not talking about kirby here. I am talking 100% Chrom putting his neck out for a guy that was not better than kirby.
Wow. The dead hate Chrom.
Kidding aside, the Koshi filter dive was a bit disappointing. A lot of ranting, some martyring, a bunch of tunneling but not a ton of actual scumhunting.
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On July 16 2013 05:23 Rainbows wrote:
We're lynching Gotard tomorrow btw guise.
Chrom, your case on me is bad. It boils down to me lynching the guy you wanted, and not really caring. Nobody wanted to lynch Gotard so I lynched the other dude. I can't really oppose the lynch when all I can do is watch and write little snippets from my phone at work.
And the dead hate Gotard. Rainbows was a tough read for me, but I liked playing with him. I'm sad he's gone.
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I need about 955% more Alakaslam in my life right now.
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On July 17 2013 07:27 Gotard wrote:My top reads: Town: -Umasi -Onegu Mafia: Superfluous - still didn't do anything pro town except for out of place cop advice. But everyone assumes town-town lynch day 1. Problem is that we couldn't move our votes freely because this tribunal thingy and there wasn't enough place for mafia to make big plays even when they would like to defend him. Another this is that Chromatically defended him so mafia didn't even have to do that. To be honest jrkirby's case on me could be good enough to put him as 2nd lynch but someone needed to put some effort into highlighting that. That is why even when that lynch looked like it was town-town it might not be the case. Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 10:59 Superfluous wrote:
For once I agree with Xzavier, Maf don't have to role block so they could just skip a night and say one of them got role blocked. That said I doubt they'd do it night one. This post looks like "hey everyone! Mafia don't have a role blocker!". Nightcat99 - Ask questions that you can easily google and find answers in 10 seconds. Shitload of useless one/two liners. 4 pages of bad content. Off-topic: I was surprised that you can post during the day in my first game, but you should check it...
Can anyone explain to me what the bolded section means?
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On July 17 2013 09:27 Nightcat99 wrote:I have been reading the filters again for gotard and super and here is what i think. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 19:53 Gotard wrote:
Hello! After some lurking (jk I was sleeping) i'd like to share my thoughts:
Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 20:12 Gotard wrote:On July 13 2013 19:57 Chromatically wrote:
Gotard, who do you want to lynch? Easy question. Umasi and Xzavier!!! (jk) Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 05:32 Gotard wrote:
"On top of that, he's barely posted, hasn't posted an original scumread, and has pressured no one.". It's hard to post "original scumread" when you are in EU timezone and game is the most active when you sleep. Do you want me to talk to myself? rotfl. (That was a little scummy excuse T_T). I do what I can do which is more passive play. Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 02:44 Gotard wrote:
Getting mad after misreading. Emotional plays like that indicates bad town to me. Unless he wants to fake being mad after I defended Stim.
And the most important note : he can't spell my name. Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 03:40 Gotard wrote:On July 16 2013 03:33 Koshi wrote:
Gotard, How can I become good town? You need to become town first. Play again!? Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 07:33 Gotard wrote:Wanted to check stuff before going to sleep. (offtopic I might add you on osu! later if I will remember)[ He has been adding in j/k and other things in his post to make his posting seem much more relax then it is and thats a very scummy read to me. Plus it can be a precaution for future slip ups. Also he most recent post after long hour of lurking didnt help the situation but seems to make things worst Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 07:27 Gotard wrote:My top reads: Town: -Umasi -Onegu Mafia: Superfluous - still didn't do anything pro town except for out of place cop advice. But everyone assumes town-town lynch day 1. Problem is that we couldn't move our votes freely because this tribunal thingy and there wasn't enough place for mafia to make big plays even when they would like to defend him. Another this is that Chromatically defended him so mafia didn't even have to do that. To be honest jrkirby's case on me could be good enough to put him as 2nd lynch but someone needed to put some effort into highlighting that. That is why even when that lynch looked like it was town-town it might not be the case. On July 16 2013 10:59 Superfluous wrote:
For once I agree with Xzavier, Maf don't have to role block so they could just skip a night and say one of them got role blocked. That said I doubt they'd do it night one. This post looks like "hey everyone! Mafia don't have a role blocker!". Nightcat99 - Ask questions that you can easily google and find answers in 10 seconds. Shitload of useless one/two liners. 4 pages of bad content. Off-topic: I was surprised that you can post during the day in my first game, but you should check it... i mean his top 2 town read were umasi, who no one has accused and onegu, who replaced stim, who gave alot of tells, athough nothing is for sure, no one is accusing onegu mainly because os stims blowup. his mafia picks superfluous , the current most voted person , and me which isnt even an accusation. I would vote gotard at a heart beat atm, but i am still hoping super would come back and post somethings before i put my vote in, beside there is plenty of time left.
This is interesting analysis. Thank you for posting it. (Trying to be encouraging to new players who are bringing unique analysis to the scumhunt)
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On July 17 2013 10:00 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 09:57 Chromatically wrote:
Onegu, Sponge is still your top scum read, right? Yeah until he defends himself fully at least, but still his whole arguememt on the tribunal, and then changed the subject to not let it happen again left a bad taste in my mouth. @Hurricane really you think I scumslipped?
No, it was just a joke because you put 'yolo' instead of 'lylo' (or 'mylo').
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On July 17 2013 20:11 Gotard wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 08:08 Chromatically wrote:On July 16 2013 03:40 Gotard wrote:On July 16 2013 03:33 Koshi wrote:
Gotard, How can I become good town? You need to become town first. Play again!? So why did you write this if you thought that he was bad town? Have you seen Koshi's answer? It was obvious that it was a joke. Do you expect me to write what he need to do to be considered good town? In this game you can call someone town after that person is DEAD. When I call someone 'bad town' I assume we can lynch him if we don't have any better reads because he isn't that much useful and killing him gives information. Problem is that day 1 we traded potential information for secured lynch. Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 08:22 Nightcat99 wrote:On July 17 2013 07:27 Gotard wrote:My top reads: Town: -Umasi -Onegu Mafia: Superfluous - still didn't do anything pro town except for out of place cop advice. But everyone assumes town-town lynch day 1. Problem is that we couldn't move our votes freely because this tribunal thingy and there wasn't enough place for mafia to make big plays even when they would like to defend him. Another this is that Chromatically defended him so mafia didn't even have to do that. To be honest jrkirby's case on me could be good enough to put him as 2nd lynch but someone needed to put some effort into highlighting that. That is why even when that lynch looked like it was town-town it might not be the case. On July 16 2013 10:59 Superfluous wrote:
For once I agree with Xzavier, Maf don't have to role block so they could just skip a night and say one of them got role blocked. That said I doubt they'd do it night one. This post looks like "hey everyone! Mafia don't have a role blocker!". Nightcat99 - Ask questions that you can easily google and find answers in 10 seconds. Shitload of useless one/two liners. 4 pages of bad content. Off-topic: I was surprised that you can post during the day in my first game, but you should check it... Dont know why you say that every one assume town town lynch day one and then you put him back on scum list , and i dont think every one thinks its town- town because if so then why is there vote on him now. On July 15 2013 05:29 jrkirby wrote:
I think that you're right about gotard. He seems a lot like jarjardrinks in the first game I played. But no one is really taking a second look at him. In about 10 minutes I'm going to switch my vote from gotard to superflous, as he seems a bit scummy and I'd rather lynch him than no one.
But I would much prefer it if the case on gotard were reviewed by everyone. When I called him out on his sheep vote, instead of giving good reasons for his vote, he just said,oh, other people are doing the same thing. That's not an excuse.
And besides, gotard: Other people ARE posting why they are on the bandwagon their on. Sure, some people haven't voted yet, but most people who have voted have at least a bit of reasonig behind it, rather than just "I find you scummy." this is the kriby's case on you , why does this make him a better second day lynch. His case against you were basically he called you a sheep and you didnt respond, thats not a reason to make him a second day lynch. And the part about me, i dont even feel like thats a scum accusation and you obviously just jump through my filter and didnt read, why i asked the question. so i wont bother answering that. Maybe I should say majority not everyone. If you look at jrkirby's reads on me they were way better than what Superfluous did at this point in time and it was more than "calling me sheep". Seems like jrkirby couldn't get out of lynch without anyone's help. Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 09:27 Nightcat99 wrote:I have been reading the filters again for gotard and super and here is what i think. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 19:53 Gotard wrote:
Hello! After some lurking (jk I was sleeping) i'd like to share my thoughts:
On July 13 2013 20:12 Gotard wrote:Easy question. Umasi and Xzavier!!! (jk) On July 14 2013 05:32 Gotard wrote:
"On top of that, he's barely posted, hasn't posted an original scumread, and has pressured no one.". It's hard to post "original scumread" when you are in EU timezone and game is the most active when you sleep. Do you want me to talk to myself? rotfl. (That was a little scummy excuse T_T). I do what I can do which is more passive play. On July 16 2013 02:44 Gotard wrote:
Getting mad after misreading. Emotional plays like that indicates bad town to me. Unless he wants to fake being mad after I defended Stim.
And the most important note : he can't spell my name. On July 16 2013 03:40 Gotard wrote:You need to become town first. Play again!? On July 17 2013 07:33 Gotard wrote:Wanted to check stuff before going to sleep. (offtopic I might add you on osu! later if I will remember)[ He has been adding in j/k and other things in his post to make his posting seem much more relax then it is and thats a very scummy read to me. Plus it can be a precaution for future slip ups. Also he most recent post after long hour of lurking didnt help the situation but seems to make things worst On July 17 2013 07:27 Gotard wrote:My top reads: Town: -Umasi -Onegu Mafia: Superfluous - still didn't do anything pro town except for out of place cop advice. But everyone assumes town-town lynch day 1. Problem is that we couldn't move our votes freely because this tribunal thingy and there wasn't enough place for mafia to make big plays even when they would like to defend him. Another this is that Chromatically defended him so mafia didn't even have to do that. To be honest jrkirby's case on me could be good enough to put him as 2nd lynch but someone needed to put some effort into highlighting that. That is why even when that lynch looked like it was town-town it might not be the case. On July 16 2013 10:59 Superfluous wrote:
For once I agree with Xzavier, Maf don't have to role block so they could just skip a night and say one of them got role blocked. That said I doubt they'd do it night one. This post looks like "hey everyone! Mafia don't have a role blocker!". Nightcat99 - Ask questions that you can easily google and find answers in 10 seconds. Shitload of useless one/two liners. 4 pages of bad content. Off-topic: I was surprised that you can post during the day in my first game, but you should check it... i mean his top 2 town read were umasi, who no one has accused and onegu, who replaced stim, who gave alot of tells, athough nothing is for sure, no one is accusing onegu mainly because os stims blowup. his mafia picks superfluous , the current most voted person , and me which isnt even an accusation. I would vote gotard at a heart beat atm, but i am still hoping super would come back and post somethings before i put my vote in, beside there is plenty of time left. Doesn't matter if I'm scum or not I play for fun and I don't see any reasons for jokes being scummy unless they are forced in some way which isn't the case. I think it's obvious that my top town reads are people commonly considered as town and I don't think that no one accused Umasi in this game (I'm too lazy to find quotes). I can say the same think about you now. I don't see him pro town in any way. Don't force me to change my mind only because it's too easy to call him scum. Yes, you did a lot of pro town content. Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 07:27 Gotard wrote:
Nightcat99 - Ask questions that you can easily google and find answers in 10 seconds. Shitload of useless one/two liners. 4 pages of bad content.
If you don't think it's an accusation you need to stop using ctrl+f when looking for accusations.
I hate the bolded. His logic when picking town reads is that everyone else thinks that they're town. I'm amazed he actually admitted that.
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On July 17 2013 20:28 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 13:02 Nightcat99 wrote:
Ya I got nothing to say about the timing of my respond, I was taking the train so I had time to respond, and now I am In the hotel bit thet got a lot of alcohol so if I start posting nonsense, I blame the alcohol.
I will be honest that I don't have a read on super yet, it just feels like he might be busy like me and today is the first day so I will need to find some time to reread everything when I am home.
I however feel that the beginning of the ame is not a time for witch hurt but a time to establish your innocent, because there is only 3 scum and 10 iinnocent, if we are able to find 4 innocent to work together, we shall not be able to lose.
Btw, if there is any grammar or spelling error in my post, I apologize in advance, it's really hard to type o. The phone. I know this is conspiracy crazy but if hurricane and nightcat were scum together, here is the start of the tribunal.Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 08:50 Nightcat99 wrote:
lol hzflank my vote is not suspicious because they dont need my vote for a switch. regardless who i vote they still have 3 people to lynch either kirby or super, my vote is just away to prove my innocents and that i am mobile and active now. Votes in no way are a way to prove innocense. Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 09:29 Nightcat99 wrote:and the game got really hectic, i will be honest that i really wanted to switch out of jrkirby ont he last few minutes because his last minute insight is very sounded and seems very townie. Ok, Gotard is an excellent lynch target tomorrow. I think chrom should only be lynched after a scum is found, but maybe checked by cop.
I have less of a feeling about koshi, umasi, super.
Xzavier is decent, but not the best lynch.
Chrom and super should be lynched together should one of them be scum by flip or cop check.
That's the best I got, GG guys. and also since hes a proven townie now , we shall really look into his reads. I didnt want to vote the townie, guys Im innocent. Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 09:06 Nightcat99 wrote:
just curious if none of you guys on the tribunal die , does that make me less suspicious? Again this post is really just like please dont look at me no matter what happens. Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 11:52 Nightcat99 wrote:
Well since i feel like i am on the chopping block i will do what i can.
First off all, stim's blow up can just be a big play since he was on the chopping block, even with his claim does make him a townie by any means.
cloud posted almost nothing , if cloud continuing playing i would have put him as a lurking scum because he posted no opinion of his own but he got replaced so.....
i am still leaning that gotard is scum because of his snarky comment on every other post, it seem like he recheck his post and put those in in case there is future slip ups.
super can still be scum , nothing has change in the last 24 hour i dont know why a mislynch turn into a town - town read.
i was totally expecting either hurricane or umasi to die and didnt know see rainbow going, so even through i had strong feeling that these two were town, now i am not so sure, but if i have to pick it will be hurricane that is the scummier of the two, because hes the one that started the first day tribunal and that is a silly idea even to me. but i really have nothing .
P.S. i will keep reading and this game is hard i am getting a headache.
Talking about lurking scum because he didnt post at all. I thought you talked about makeing a group of four people to control the lynch. Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 09:58 Nightcat99 wrote:On July 17 2013 09:45 hzflank wrote:
Thanks Nightcat. I agree with your points on Gotard and with most of your reasoning (timing of your vote, etc).
Out of interest, what do you think of Onegu? My opinion on Onegu is that he got way too much credit for stims blowup and VT claim, its like he walks into the game with a townie tag on his head and every one just accepted that. As far as i am concern, since we dont know the reason stim left, the blowup could still be a big scum play cause he feels that hes in danger. On July 15 2013 15:57 Onegu wrote:
Scumteam
Hurricane
Koshi
Rainbow/gotard
I am really confidant in my hurricane read btw, he made sure he led the council and could make sure we never got off a town/town bandwagon. Alot of his posts just seem like he wants town cred, unlike last game. This is the only post i have foound on Onegu for scum reads, every thing else is just commenting on other peoples post and giving an opinion or saying if they are good or bad, Onegu made alot of post but not alot of reads. So i would like to ask for your new scum reads now because those picks are obviously outdated and atleast 50% incorrect. That is what scum hunting is... Alot of I am sorry in his filter also.
That was nightcat volunteering to sheep the Tribunal. We controlled his vote, but in no way did I trust him to be Town. All he proved is that his vote was mobile (which gave me reads on whether it was a town-town lynch if we can flip Nightcat red).
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On July 16 2013 20:02 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:54 Hurricane Sponge wrote:Umasi, stop defending me. Don't defend people in general. It's more valuable to hear them defend themselves by tenfold. (Also, I don't want you handcuffing yourself to my ankle then flipping scum and having Town waste a bunch of time re-vetting me.) On July 13 2013 08:48 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 08:47 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:46 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 08:42 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? Correct. I would not have posted this particular post as scum. But you might have posted another post starting with the same line. Or maybe you did post that as scum. But you certainly would never have said: The following was written on the contingency I got Scum in my role PM. Hahaha! Very right you are, I hadn't thought of that. So then show us the post that you would have posted if you rolled scum, eh? This is a very reasonable request, but unfortunately I will not be posting it at this time for a couple reasons. First, it's not as impressive as the one I posted. Second, I intend to stay active in this community and will probably end up using a version of it at some point when (if?) I ever get that 'You Are Scum' PM. Why write this if you filp town, and we play in another game together and you post something similar but not as good I will tunnel you, and bring up this post. I never said my scum write-up was similar. And you're tunneling me now. And at the endgame, you'll see it was a bad move. I'm not worried about future games, I'm playing this one. Don't try to threaten me with action in future games to get some kind of result in this one. It's very bad manner. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 15:39 Hurricane Sponge wrote:Just caught up on the thread for entertainment purposes: First thoughts: This fits StiM's playbook to a letter. The self-vote and martyring happened in XLII. Unfortunately, this happened while he was Town, so this doesn't really tell us anything. I like that there are other reasons for the votes (haven't done proper analysis yet), but I strongly encourage people to not interpret StiM on tilt as a scumtell. Going back now to read the entire train of thought in context now: Early on, StiM breaks down why he thought the kirby jokepost wasn't credible. (This elicits a big eyeroll, but is pretty benign albeit unnecessary). + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 09:25 StiMaDDict wrote:@RainbowAlso my read on jrkirby is null. This is a response to a request for elaboration from Rainbow. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 07:41 jrkirby wrote:Ok. I've been studying this long and hard, and I think I have enough evidence to make a clear case. hzflank is scumShow nested quote +On July 09 2013 04:04 hzflank wrote:On July 09 2013 03:22 WaveofShadow wrote:On July 09 2013 03:20 hzflank wrote:On July 09 2013 02:13 Stutters695 wrote:Obligatory USE YOUR COACHESWe're great guys and here to help With WoS as the scum coach, I do not think that town will need your assistance. Uh, ouch? Need I remind you that you won a game with Ace as the scum coach too? I meant it as a compliment. Sometimes the greatest players are the worst coaches because you just cannot teach pure brilliance. Clearly, hzflank is lying about this compliment. Liars are always scum. And look who he's talking to: the scum coach. Obviously he's in league with them. He goes on, still talking to the scum: Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 04:22 hzflank wrote:On July 09 2013 04:09 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
If you vote for an hzflank lynch based on pregame meta, I will fall instantly in love with you. Then scum should night kill the first person to vote for me, because as their lover you will also die. This is an obvious admission that he wants town to die. Anyone who wants town to die is scum, end of story. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 04:19 hzflank wrote:On July 13 2013 04:09 Chromatically wrote:
I won't be here for two hours after start. Then who will call my first post scummy? I will. Right here, right now. Pregame posts when people didn't even get their role pm are evidence to his case. Do I need to say more? Show nested quote +Clearly, hzflank is lying about this compliment. Liars are always scum. And look who he's talking to: the scum coach. Obviously he's in league with them.
He goes on, still talking to the scum: Not sure where he is going with this one.. Show nested quote +This is an obvious admission that he wants town to die. Anyone who wants town to die is scum, end of story. He hasn't even fucking got his role pm and he's joking around pregame. ok.. + Show Spoiler +And for his first post: Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 07:11 hzflank wrote:
So we are using a majority vote system. As we all know there is much more chance of a No Lynch with this system than with plurality voting.
I think it is in our best interest to try to lynch someone every day. This may seem a bit odd at first, because a mis-lynch is obviously better for scum than for town. However, the only way that town will win is by lynching scum, and we will never be sure if we are lynching town or scum unless the lynch actually goes through. If we narrowly fail to lynch then we end up spending the next day discussing it and do not move forward as much.
Also, scum already know who they are. When someone is lynched the alignment information from their flip benefits town, but not scum.
Therefore, I suggest we work together as much as possible to actually get lynches through, if they are in doubt. He's trying to get us to sheep together and follow a Bandwagon instead of looking for evidence and finding scum. Finally: Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 07:31 hzflank wrote:On July 13 2013 07:26 Koshi wrote:
Are there experienced players here? People that played a decent amount of games. Everyone here has played 3 or less games. On July 13 2013 07:24 Koshi wrote:
Hi all. I played 1 newbie game in the TL+ forums and I am atm also playing in the nuclear mafia game.
I am with Rainbows on the lynching of lurkers. The tl+ game got RUINED because nobody posted. So if you are town, I want you to make around 10 posts a day. Try to make posts that are aggressive and confront people with your thought. Don't be afraid to be wrong. If you are town, please consider doing this to help town and force scum to make posts.
I think it is a bit early to be thinking about policy lynches on lurkers. Policy lynching can stifle discussion and we need discussion today. Once we get 24-36 hours in then we can consider it. Also, sometimes RL just happens for a day or two. Also, I think that there will be enough activity here. There are several players who I know will post a lot and we (the active players) cannot all die really early. Trying to defend one of the scum who is planning to lurk. You can't ignore all this evidence guys. hzflank is scum. ##Vote: hzflankShow nested quote +And for his first post:
He's trying to get us to sheep together and follow a Bandwagon instead of looking for evidence and finding scum. I am not trying to defend hzflank in any shape or form however I do not agree with jrkirby's "read" on hzflank's post and I do not think it was alignment indicative. Again I do not think this post point hzflank as a scum. Then comes the massive over-reaction: + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 09:25 StiMaDDict wrote:Another thing that is annoying the fuck out of me is that how Rainbow "interpreted" my post. This is what I wrote. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:07 StiMaDDict wrote:
I can only look at jrkirby's post as a pressure vote at this point. He didn't seem to be the type to joke around from the pre game though.
Explanation: I find a pressure vote to be a strategy for some people. It works sometimes but not all the times. jrkirby's "case" really is not something of content to be honest. I assumed that it was pressure vote to get some discussions going. So that is what I said. As for the second sentence, his "case" is really fucking bullshit, so there are two possibilities. Either he is joking around or he suck at scumhunting. Now let's look at how Rainbow made me sound like. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:20 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:07 StiMaDDict wrote:
I can only look at jrkirby's post as a pressure vote at this point. He didn't seem to be the type to joke around from the pre game though.
This post is scummy. Gives a reason for jkirbys post and then casts doubt on it. U scum? Scummy? Yes, I did give jkirby's post a reason but I didn't doubt it. If I had said it was a joke vote and he didn't seem to be a joker, your statement makes sense. I said pressure vote and nothing more. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:28 Rainbows wrote:
Yes. What is odd about his vote? Why ia this joking around suspicious? I didn't fucking say it was odd. Jesus, give me a break. I NEVER FUCKING SAID IT WAS SUSPICIOUS. Note to all: + Show Spoiler +btw, I'm really trying to stay active. Sometimes I write really slow and I might be answering something that is couple of pages back. Sometimes I write one liners. My bad. + Show Spoiler +If you don't like it, well fuck you I've read that post ten times, and can't really glean anything meaningful other than that StiM is in full-on turtle-up Defend Self At All Costs mode. Not necessarily a scumtell in a newbie game, I guess. I mean, who wants to die? Still, odd. Chromatically notes that one of these posts sits very oddly with him (I'd guess it's the second one), but StiM's next post is one defending me / going after Kirby: + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 09:30 StiMaDDict wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:22 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 09:14 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 09:10 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:57 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:54 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:42 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? Correct. I would not have posted this particular post as scum. On July 13 2013 08:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:43 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:41 Umasi wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:
[quote]
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum?
[quote]
I'd be very interested in hearing your explanation as to why you honestly think this is scummy. I certainly wouldn't post that if I were scum, it is nothing but a good thing for town. Why WOULD he want to post that as scum? to look town. Scum love to spew general pro town thingsvto get ez town cred.. This is correct. In general, these sorts of posts should result in a null read in a veteran game. But Early Day 1, when it's generally assumed nothing interesting is happening, seemed like a good time to get PSA's out of the way for a newbie crowd. The info is valuable, but it should not get me town cred. It's more important to me that there's a town consensus on the actual content of the post, not my alignment. (Plenty of time for that later.) You obviously think that your post was pro town, right? That's why you shouldn't have posted it as scum. But then you say that you shouldn't get town cred from it, indicating that you don't think it's pro town. ? Pro town in a newbie game, yes. Probably wouldn't have posted it in a Veteran game unless I really felt the Day 1 conversation stagnating early. I think all my posts are pro-town. Otherwise, why would I post them? (That should apply to everyone but those with a severe inferiority complex.) That doesn't answer the point. The point is that your logic is inconsistant. You say that you wouldn't have posted this as scum. Why? You think that the post is valuable enough to town that scum wouldn't want to post it. You think that only a townie would post it. However, you say that you shouldn't get a town read for it, even though you think that only town would post it. I'm not in the business of telling people I'm town. I'm going to scumhunt and try to win this game, and a byproduct of that should be that people will view me as town. Put another way: I don't believe posting specifically with the goal of acquiring towncred is particularly helpful in anything but circumstances where I could be mislynched. I'm prioritizing getting the Town ducks in a row here in the early going so we can move on to the scumhunt, not establishing my Townie-ness. Interestingly, people (Chrom and jrkirby) have seemed more interested in analyzing why I posted rather than what I posted. Can I infer by this that we largely agree with what I have said? Pretty much what you said was: meta is bad, this is the meta that I might accidentally do. That's fine, neither particularly good nor bad imo. But you claimed that you would only post it on the condition that you were town. You admit to having a post that you would post on the condition that you're scum (which I think is foolish), but you won't show it to us, and that's just a tiny bit suspicious. Seriously man.. this is the best you can do? If he has scum post, big deal. For all we know THIS could be his scum post. Who knows. Is this your first game jrkirby? So early in the game, I have felt pressure from Kirby and Chrom, while receiving unsolicited White Knighting from Umasi and StiM. (Side note: If there's some crazy mafia play floating around out there to chum up to me to make me look scummy after you guys flip Red, that's a losing strategy, boys.) Important post from hz regarding StiM flipping out while everyone else interpreted the jokepost as a joke: + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 09:58 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:44 Rainbows wrote:
What do you think about Stims reaction, HZ? He kinda derailed to some soft pressure :/ The first thing to note is that Stim was unsure of whether Jrkirby's post was a joke or not. Stim reacted very different than everyone else did, but this could be because he viewed it as semi-serious while everyone else viewed it as a joke. After that Stim tries to defend himself. Again Stim's reaction seems odd at first, but normal if you consider that Stim thinks the original case was serious. Stim is posting in an aggressive manner but that is more of a personality tell than an alignment tell. I cannot help but be wish-washy here and conclude: I am eager to see more from Stim because I have absolutely no read on his alignment at this point. Bolding because this is the first real revelation I've had on this case. If someone can provide a logical answer to the above, I'd appreciate it. Re: If StiM was Scum, would scum have really let him react this poorly and dig his own grave for this long? Moving on: Rainbow seems to be sheeping Chromatically's pressure on StiM a bit. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 10:01 Rainbows wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:58 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 09:25 StiMaDDict wrote:Another thing that is annoying the fuck out of me is that how Rainbow "interpreted" my post. This is what I wrote. On July 13 2013 08:07 StiMaDDict wrote:
I can only look at jrkirby's post as a pressure vote at this point. He didn't seem to be the type to joke around from the pre game though.
Explanation: I find a pressure vote to be a strategy for some people. It works sometimes but not all the times. jrkirby's "case" really is not something of content to be honest. I assumed that it was pressure vote to get some discussions going. So that is what I said. As for the second sentence, his "case" is really fucking bullshit, so there are two possibilities. Either he is joking around or he suck at scumhunting.
So you posted it because you wanted to point out that he's either a townie joking or a bad townie? Why would you post the second sentence at all? And then someone else words it better than I can. Bravo. On July 13 2013 10:03 Rainbows wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:01 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 09:52 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 09:47 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 09:26 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 09:21 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 09:12 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:41 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? On July 13 2013 08:20 Rainbows wrote:
[quote]
This post is scummy. Gives a reason for jkirbys post and then casts doubt on it. U scum? I'd be very interested in hearing your explanation as to why you honestly think this is scummy. It's scummy because it's renouncing jkirbys jokepost while he gave a reason for it. He never explains why this joking around is suspicious just passively finger points. I want to hear elaboration. "It's a pressure vote, but his joking is wierd because he doesn't seem like a joker." Where's the inconsistency? The point is he is finger pointing without actually doing anything like asking a question.I want to hear his response It sounded like you had two points. 1) "It's scummy because it's renouncing jkirbys jokepost while he gave a reason for it." (inconsistency) 2) "He never explains why this joking around is suspicious just passively finger points." (finger pointing) Maybe I wasn't explicit enough. Is this untrue? I assume pressure vote = town move and then he says jkirby is joking which is unlike him = scummy? two separate feels imo. Are you asking me..? Or is that a reason why you thought it was scummy? The reason I thought it scummy. It's hard to say how I thought about it, but then again I post rather sporadically with random thoughts. Finally getting to the part where StiM starts posting about whether or not he was mad. Chromatically seems to be leading this attack. StiM gets tripped up trying to explain whether he was mad or pretending to be mad. None of this comes of making StiM look good. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 12:59 StiMaDDict wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 12:49 Chromatically wrote:This Stim thing doesn't make sense at all. Look at the chain of events: 1) Rainbow pressures Stim 2) Stim posts an angry response 3) Stim claims that his anger was due to formatting 4) Stim claims that he wasn't actually angry, and that he acted like it to get a reaction. 3 and 4 are incompatible. Stim is claiming that he was angry from the formatting, and then lied about his reasoning for doing it later. This doesn't make sense from a town perspective. On July 13 2013 11:55 StiMaDDict wrote:
I did respond quite aggressively and in an angry manner, even though I was not really angry at all. There were 2 purposes: 1) To see if Rainbow would 'flinch' 2) To establish myself to others as capable of defending myself. Conclusion: He didn't flinch and I did clear my name somewhat. I could have counter pressured to get some sort of read from Rainbow, however I didn't, because it IS early in the game and without proving myself as an active town, it would have a less of impact and leave a bad impression of me.
Town wouldn't say "There were 2 purposes" for their anger if they had just made up those purposes now. Town most certainly wouldn't say "I wasn't actually angry" if they were, like Stim is claiming he was now. ##Vote: StimI'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts. Edit: If this is what you came up with, then gg wp. Not really motivating to play anymore really. .... and then he takes his ball and goes home. Color me baffled. Could be town (like I said, he has proven he's willing to vote himself and go on tilt really easily), but definitely could be scum panicking. Moreso, I'm offended by his implication that the onus is on US to keep HIM entertained and willing to play this game. Then Umasi joins the bandwagon: + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 13:06 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:49 StiMaDDict wrote:
I may be biased but I put Chromatically as the most capable scumhunter. In last game, he pretty much had the whole scum team Day1. It goes without saying that I do not Chromatically's alignment as of right now.
@Chromatically Your current scum reads? Looking at it as stim is scum, it feels like he's trying to buddy him up as he has him read as a threat. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:50 StiMaDDict wrote:
Edit: *It goes without saying that I do not know Chromatically's alignment as of right now This reads to me as trying to assuage a concern someone would have with it before someone talked about it. And seriously, why would you even bother doing that? Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 12:59 StiMaDDict wrote:On July 13 2013 12:49 Chromatically wrote:This Stim thing doesn't make sense at all. Look at the chain of events: 1) Rainbow pressures Stim 2) Stim posts an angry response 3) Stim claims that his anger was due to formatting 4) Stim claims that he wasn't actually angry, and that he acted like it to get a reaction. 3 and 4 are incompatible. Stim is claiming that he was angry from the formatting, and then lied about his reasoning for doing it later. This doesn't make sense from a town perspective. On July 13 2013 11:55 StiMaDDict wrote:
I did respond quite aggressively and in an angry manner, even though I was not really angry at all. There were 2 purposes: 1) To see if Rainbow would 'flinch' 2) To establish myself to others as capable of defending myself. Conclusion: He didn't flinch and I did clear my name somewhat. I could have counter pressured to get some sort of read from Rainbow, however I didn't, because it IS early in the game and without proving myself as an active town, it would have a less of impact and leave a bad impression of me.
Town wouldn't say "There were 2 purposes" for their anger if they had just made up those purposes now. Town most certainly wouldn't say "I wasn't actually angry" if they were, like Stim is claiming he was now. ##Vote: StimI'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts. Edit: If this is what you came up with, then gg wp. Not really motivating to play anymore really. It's not motivating to play because you don't have perma town cred? Expect people to think you're scum, or not guaranteed town. Like, why is it gg? If I remember you said Chrom was a solid scumhunter. It's actually up there in this post Don't omgus out of the fucking game, because that is not pro town, not defensible, and a surefire way to be lynched. And if you're town, that's obviously bad, because you're directly hurting town, wasting our time and not scumhunting. If you're scum, that's ALSO an awful idea, because you're just saccing yourself. Basically, rethink this and ignore what chrom has said about you and go contribute as much as you can in a protown way to turn opinions around, not just complain "I don't like people thinking I'm scum" You are now a priority to figure out over Superfluous, although I still am looking at Superfluous. ##UNVOTE##VOTE StiMadDDict The first two 'reasons' reek of confirmation bias, and don't hold any weight for me. It could be construed as a scum Umasi hopping on a surefire bandwagon, but I have no confidence based on his earlier play that this poor play is inconsistent with a Town Umasi. Other valuable thoughts to avoid Quadposting: - I disagree with Superfluous' opinion on policy about No Lynch Day 1's, but the similarities to the Aqua - NN Claim issue is so striking I actually laughed aloud. My gut read was 'he's scum, day 1 lynch is the best play', but now I realize how the people pushing for Aqua's lynch Day 1 felt! - Umasi really rushed to my defense early and often which leaves me with a weird scummy feeling for some reason. Kirby and Chrom were pressuring me, but they weren't firing fastballs. I feel like I explained myself well, but Umasi's intrusion made the whole exchange way more combative than I felt it deserved. Right now, my nightmare is that Umasi flips scum, and people link him to me via these early exchanges, leading to my own mislynch. - Combining these two thoughts, Umasi then votes Superfluous for his 'scummy as crap' Day 1 No Lynch post (which I have explained in bullet point #1 I think is wrong, but not scummy). - People are being too hard on lurkers (especially people who posted at the game start and then disappeared). It's talk that doesn't move the game forward because it's a freaking Friday Night. Umasi's supporting 'evidence' (i.e. he's lurking) on Superfluous is what inspired this bulletpoint, pointed out nicely by hz: + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 09:42 hzflank wrote:I think Jrkirby's and Sponge's opening posts had the same motivation: to get discussion moving. Both have done this and we have multiple discussions taking place. Since then, Sponge did a little coaching. Sponge has come under pressure from multiple people (for his opening post), and has dealt with it while being reasonably open. The only time that he has not been open is by refusing to post the other version of his opening post. Sponge did a little coaching again as he tried to stop Umasi from defending him. So far my read on Sponge has moved very slightly towards town. Since his opening, Jrkirby has attacked Sponge for his opening post, and done nothing else. That's fine because it is early and Jrkirby is pushing to get a reaction from someone. This is not scummy to me, null read. Umasi has defended Hurricane, which cannot be viewed as scummy at this point. Umasi has attacked Superfluous. I would say that this attack could be scummy as it is based on nothing, but it could just be to get Super to post more (he only has one post). Umasi then repeats that he thinks Super's post is scummy and votes for him. The problem I have with this is that Umasi claims Super's only post was scummy, when I do not think that it was. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:33 Superfluous wrote:
While I agree that we should lynch someone if they are super scummy, I'd like to point out that voting for no lynch is an option. Assuming I'm interpreting the rules/setup right, mafia only has 1 kp so there's no immediate motive for lynching such as reducing kp. It may be a stronger play to not lynch and hope that cop(if there is one) gets a turn to check before lynch. It is a risk though because I believe we are not guaranteed to have a cop. Just an idea I wanted to throw out and get your guys' thoughts on. If Umasi was looking for a reaction then I do not understand why he posted: Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:59 Umasi wrote:
Where the hell are you. You popped in, gave a single post, that I think is scummy as crap, still haven't show back up. Pretty confusing, because the post you gave was irrelevant. How was Super's post scummy as crap? I do not think that Umasi is looking for scum, and if he is not just fishing for Super to respond then I think that Umasi is just looking for a neutral place to put his early vote. Unlike Jrkirby's, Umasi's vote is not a troll vote. I have a slight scum read on Umasi. On July 13 2013 10:56 Umasi wrote:
He came in, emphasized his newness to the game, and it felt like he was giving excuses for not posting, not reasons.
(I realize that they're extremely similar, but I think it's a matter of tone)
the timing he came in at (right when we brought up lurkers) to be like "I'm trying not to lurk"
is just
kind of......weird?
I think it's out of place and scummy. Unlike hz, however, I think these are just bad reads and bad play. Could be scum, of course, but it could equally likely be town. Still some good content, on my radar, and I'm glad hz pointed it out. Chromatically chimes in later with a post on Superfluous saying he has tried to not 'rock the boat' (which is exactly what he did with the No Lynch position he took): + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 10:59 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:49 StiMaDDict wrote:
I may be biased but I put Chromatically as the most capable scumhunter. In last game, he pretty much had the whole scum team Day1. It goes without saying that I do not Chromatically's alignment as of right now.
@Chromatically Your current scum reads? Superfluous looks really bad, he's been apologetic in his posts (not trying to rock the boat) and has only said what others have already said. It looks like he's trying hard to find anything to post about because he wants to look active. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:05 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 09:55 Umasi wrote:
Superfluous, do you have any current scum reads? At the moment no, as I said I was gone for a couple hours then came back and just skimmed through the thread . I mean to go through it again in more detail once I'm finished defending myself or w/e. Two things are on my mind though. One is that I think you are town (not just to suck up to you b/c you are pressuring me). Reasons being that in my personal experience those who are most aggressive are generally town, and also that this is a semi-noob game so I'm unsure if a mafia would have the confidence to go out and control the game/ put pressure on early on. Another thing is that I dont think I've seen much (if anything) from Cloud 9. He may be in same situation as me and I'll give him Benefit of the doubt though. It's extremely odd that he specifically points out Cloud-9 as opposed to any of the other players who haven't posted. This shows pretty clearly that he's not trying at all to find scum, he doesn't even know who hasn't posted. Also looking at Kirby. Lurkers be lurking. Yet more Superfluous pressure from Umasi.... the tunnel is on?: + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 11:02 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:58 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 10:56 Umasi wrote:
He came in, emphasized his newness to the game, and it felt like he was giving excuses for not posting, not reasons.
(I realize that they're extremely similar, but I think it's a matter of tone)
the timing he came in at (right when we brought up lurkers) to be like "I'm trying not to lurk"
is just
kind of......weird?
I think it's out of place and scummy. He said he couldn't be in here at the beginning before the game started, right? No real reason to have suspicion on the lurkers yet, just note that they're lurking. The difference here, is that he's ...... like hard to articulate. He is lurking, and pops in to post a comment at such a WEIRD time like, immediately when the conversation mentions lurkers compared to otherwise contributing thoughts. I think Super is the best choice atm, but I'm by no means positive. Just hit this post by Superfluous that set off real scumbells for me: + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 12:24 Superfluous wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:59 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 10:49 StiMaDDict wrote:
I may be biased but I put Chromatically as the most capable scumhunter. In last game, he pretty much had the whole scum team Day1. It goes without saying that I do not Chromatically's alignment as of right now.
@Chromatically Your current scum reads? Superfluous looks really bad, he's been apologetic in his posts (not trying to rock the boat) and has only said what others have already said. It looks like he's trying hard to find anything to post about because he wants to look active. On July 13 2013 10:05 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 09:55 Umasi wrote:
Superfluous, do you have any current scum reads? At the moment no, as I said I was gone for a couple hours then came back and just skimmed through the thread . I mean to go through it again in more detail once I'm finished defending myself or w/e. Two things are on my mind though. One is that I think you are town (not just to suck up to you b/c you are pressuring me). Reasons being that in my personal experience those who are most aggressive are generally town, and also that this is a semi-noob game so I'm unsure if a mafia would have the confidence to go out and control the game/ put pressure on early on. Another thing is that I dont think I've seen much (if anything) from Cloud 9. He may be in same situation as me and I'll give him Benefit of the doubt though. It's extremely odd that he specifically points out Cloud-9 as opposed to any of the other players who haven't posted. This shows pretty clearly that he's not trying at all to find scum, he doesn't even know who hasn't posted. Also looking at Kirby. Lurkers be lurking. As I said I just skimmed over after returning. Cloud 9 was a name I didn't see when comparing the posts I saw to the player list, so I pointed it out. And I have been trying to get something to talk about other than what seem to be mini discussions between certain people. I also don't get why you're attacking me saying "I'm not trying to find scum". In my own post I said that I was going to look it over again and get reads, obviously meaning that I hadn't looked that hard for scum yet. Right now my biggest scum read is HZflank, because I still think Umasi is doing mostly pro town moves yet hz says its scummy. If it pushes to me actually being lynched I think that I'd still feel this way. He also had an early post or two that distracted somewhat from the discussion, which I'm always suspicious of. I'll give nightcat benefit of the doubt. It's a bit weird he showed up once his name came up but eh. I realize thats not really a great reason but seems like we're in semi-similar situations. Xzavier I'm more suspicious of, he didnt have many posts then in his first one he shows up saying he'll consider lynching me. It's really scummy play to lurk then show up ready to lynch imo. I completely disagree with many significant points on this post (thinking Xzavier's post is scummy, finding one lurker scummier than the other, deciding Umasi is town because he's tunneling someone). It almost seems like he's OMGUS'ing hz because of the pressure on Umasi? Seems like a viable scumbuddy tactic: Call out in the QT for someone to defend you so you don't have to get into a shitfight yourself. @Chrom: Can you explain what this post means? On July 13 2013 13:23 Chromatically wrote:
If everyone who just randomly popped out to soft call me sum could actually give their opinions on the situation, that'd be great. I also have a nitpick with this post: On July 13 2013 14:04 Chromatically wrote:
Yes, we'll technically never be able to totally disprove the possibility that Stim is town. It's just far less likely. Look at what Stim has done.
Lie about his anger
Town motivation: none
Scum motivation: screwed up the explanation because the anger was faked in the first place
Martyr
Town motivation: none, far more likely that he just explains
Scum motivation: knows he can't explain, so he acts emotional to get people to switch I feel like the anger was definitely real, and StiM was trying play play Mr. Cool Cat by claiming that he was really in control the whole time, and just pretended to be angry. Still not clear what that motivation could have been, but the above 2x2 leaves out some key points and I feel you're making a bit more assumptions that you usually do... Ok this is a long one and hurricane makes a few incorrect leaps in logic. First in NMM XLII yes stim self voted, but day 3 under zero pressure. He was under alot of pressure here when he self voted. He was under pressure. He was on tilt. He had just devoted his whole game to tunneling LoneMeow who flipped Town. Then your bolded first real revelation, unless you are in scum qt you dont know who or what is said in scum qt so trying to saythey wouldnt let him do something is just wrong, first scum game for me we had a modkill lurker and a regular lurker so there wasnt anyone to discuss things with. I'm not going to assume the scum are sitting quietly in the library at the start of a game. Maybe you can because you have that experience, but I always try to assume I'm facing a competent opponent. Also why defend stim? Why not let him defend himself like you advocate? Once I had a town read on him, I thought he was dangerously close to just ragequitting the game which would leave town one man down. But that isn't the reason I defended him. In fact, I was actually still pretty mad at him. But leaving my feelings aside, I thought he was town. And town doesn't want to lynch town, no matter how bad they are (despite what Gotard says).Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 16:29 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 16:02 Umasi wrote:
Alright, here, hurricane. Who do you think is worth voting at this time?
From your post, I got the gist that it'd be Superfluous or me. Is that correct? I'm still a bit mad at StiM for his post implying that it was our job to keep him entertained. I'm going to give myself some time to cool off on that, because I don't appreciate people quitting on my team (if he is in fact town). This is a time investment for everybody, and it's damn selfish of him to pack up his ball and go home after really light pressure. Townville: Kirby pressured me appropriately after my opener. I like that. He also seems to have the same attitude as me regarding the quick StiMwagon: On July 13 2013 13:31 jrkirby wrote:
2 votes land on a guy is quick succession, I'd be stupid if I weren't at least a BIT suspicious. As far as I can tell, stim is just acting like a bit of an idiot, is flustered, and frustrated. Doesn't seem like scumtell to me. You're free to have your vote, and I don't have a solid scumread on either of you, but I will be looking a bit more closely at your filters. hz is aggressively posting reads and seems to emulate my thoughts on the early Superfluous post: On July 13 2013 09:42 hzflank wrote:I think Jrkirby's and Sponge's opening posts had the same motivation: to get discussion moving. Both have done this and we have multiple discussions taking place. Since then, Sponge did a little coaching. Sponge has come under pressure from multiple people (for his opening post), and has dealt with it while being reasonably open. The only time that he has not been open is by refusing to post the other version of his opening post. Sponge did a little coaching again as he tried to stop Umasi from defending him. So far my read on Sponge has moved very slightly towards town. Since his opening, Jrkirby has attacked Sponge for his opening post, and done nothing else. That's fine because it is early and Jrkirby is pushing to get a reaction from someone. This is not scummy to me, null read. Umasi has defended Hurricane, which cannot be viewed as scummy at this point. Umasi has attacked Superfluous. I would say that this attack could be scummy as it is based on nothing, but it could just be to get Super to post more (he only has one post). Umasi then repeats that he thinks Super's post is scummy and votes for him. The problem I have with this is that Umasi claims Super's only post was scummy, when I do not think that it was. On July 13 2013 08:33 Superfluous wrote:
While I agree that we should lynch someone if they are super scummy, I'd like to point out that voting for no lynch is an option. Assuming I'm interpreting the rules/setup right, mafia only has 1 kp so there's no immediate motive for lynching such as reducing kp. It may be a stronger play to not lynch and hope that cop(if there is one) gets a turn to check before lynch. It is a risk though because I believe we are not guaranteed to have a cop. Just an idea I wanted to throw out and get your guys' thoughts on. If Umasi was looking for a reaction then I do not understand why he posted: On July 13 2013 08:59 Umasi wrote:
Where the hell are you. You popped in, gave a single post, that I think is scummy as crap, still haven't show back up. Pretty confusing, because the post you gave was irrelevant. How was Super's post scummy as crap? I do not think that Umasi is looking for scum, and if he is not just fishing for Super to respond then I think that Umasi is just looking for a neutral place to put his early vote. Unlike Jrkirby's, Umasi's vote is not a troll vote. I have a slight scum read on Umasi. Xzavier posted some decent thoughts (although he really didn't go out on any limbs): On July 13 2013 11:19 Xzavier wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Superfluous wrote:
While I agree that we should lynch someone if they are super scummy, I'd like to point out that voting for no lynch is an option. Assuming I'm interpreting the rules/setup right, mafia only has 1 kp so there's no immediate motive for lynching such as reducing kp. It may be a stronger play to not lynch and hope that cop(if there is one) gets a turn to check before lynch. It is a risk though because I believe we are not guaranteed to have a cop. Just an idea I wanted to throw out and get your guys' thoughts on. i know usami has touched on this, but i see voting for No-lynch is like sacrificing a townie or playing russian roullet for zero prize money. its just basically saying "i want to start this game a townie down" it seems silly to me, if somebody comes and gives me an ungodly reason for no-lynching ill hear it. but i see it as silly. Also from playing with usami before, hes a super fucking hyper aggressive person who needs like a single post to tunnel somebody for a full day, that can be bad. we need to keep our eyes open and looking at multiple people. As i learned my first game, a tunnel vision day1 can lead to a mislynch, or in this gametype, a no-lynch. Its far better to lynch scum, and thats what we should try to do. Even day1 we lynch either a lurker or our top scumread, if nobody has any strong scumreads, lynching the scummiest lurker is the best townplay day1. (it yields the highest chance of killing scum while creating the best pro-town enviroment) with that im also shocked of how active stim-addict is being. its nice to see a usual lurker picking it up leaving less for the scum to hide behind :D again, even Superfluous is at the top of my scumdar, he isnt high enough to deserve a vote yet. I want to lynch a lurker or superfluous depending on how he reacts to our posts and the events of the day. if the rest of it goes uneventful/no major scumslips i want to fuck up a lurker as i believe that to be the best pro-town action. Rainbows is active and is claiming credit for the StiM wagon. If StiM is town, as I suspect, I don't think scum would be claiming lead on an eventual green flip: On July 13 2013 15:43 Rainbows wrote:
Sponge, I started the whole Stim thing. Chrom just questioned both of us then pooped all over him with it :p Planet Neutral:I've found confusing material on Chrom that some may deem scummy (misrepresenting facts, leaping to conclusions, overblowing alignment-neutral mistakes). However, he also did his usual early game Poke'n'Prod, getting people to clarify their random claims that might otherwise have gone unchecked (very town). Umasi is incredibly active, and hunting. The logic leaps, confirmation bias, and clumsy attacks aren't really helping the town, however (other than to just provide really obvious pressure). If there was a shade between Green and Black, I'd use it because I think the three options for Umasi are 'Bad Town' 'Good Scum' and 'Good Town That I Just Have Trouble Reading For Whatever Reason'. Scum Central:Superfluous has a lot of ground to make up. I don't like people attacking him for his bad policy, but at the end of the day, that's not the only thing going against him. I really disagree with his reads, and that has to account for something: On July 13 2013 12:24 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 10:59 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 10:49 StiMaDDict wrote:
I may be biased but I put Chromatically as the most capable scumhunter. In last game, he pretty much had the whole scum team Day1. It goes without saying that I do not Chromatically's alignment as of right now.
@Chromatically Your current scum reads? Superfluous looks really bad, he's been apologetic in his posts (not trying to rock the boat) and has only said what others have already said. It looks like he's trying hard to find anything to post about because he wants to look active. On July 13 2013 10:05 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 09:55 Umasi wrote:
Superfluous, do you have any current scum reads? At the moment no, as I said I was gone for a couple hours then came back and just skimmed through the thread . I mean to go through it again in more detail once I'm finished defending myself or w/e. Two things are on my mind though. One is that I think you are town (not just to suck up to you b/c you are pressuring me). Reasons being that in my personal experience those who are most aggressive are generally town, and also that this is a semi-noob game so I'm unsure if a mafia would have the confidence to go out and control the game/ put pressure on early on. Another thing is that I dont think I've seen much (if anything) from Cloud 9. He may be in same situation as me and I'll give him Benefit of the doubt though. It's extremely odd that he specifically points out Cloud-9 as opposed to any of the other players who haven't posted. This shows pretty clearly that he's not trying at all to find scum, he doesn't even know who hasn't posted. Also looking at Kirby. Lurkers be lurking. As I said I just skimmed over after returning. Cloud 9 was a name I didn't see when comparing the posts I saw to the player list, so I pointed it out. And I have been trying to get something to talk about other than what seem to be mini discussions between certain people. I also don't get why you're attacking me saying "I'm not trying to find scum". In my own post I said that I was going to look it over again and get reads, obviously meaning that I hadn't looked that hard for scum yet. Right now my biggest scum read is HZflank, because I still think Umasi is doing mostly pro town moves yet hz says its scummy. If it pushes to me actually being lynched I think that I'd still feel this way. He also had an early post or two that distracted somewhat from the discussion, which I'm always suspicious of. I'll give nightcat benefit of the doubt. It's a bit weird he showed up once his name came up but eh. I realize thats not really a great reason but seems like we're in semi-similar situations. Xzavier I'm more suspicious of, he didnt have many posts then in his first one he shows up saying he'll consider lynching me. It's really scummy play to lurk then show up ready to lynch imo. So the only reason you have super as scum is because you really dont like his reads? Check the timestamp. It was very early in the game. When I have vastly disparate reads than someone else that early, it sets of warning bells for me. I thought this was worth noting, yes. Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 07:24 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
@ Umasi
@ Rainbows
We three control this lynch. I think everyone else is entrenched (via either conviction or inactivity). If you agree, we need to establish some things between the three of us.
First, do we all agree that both of the current wagons are acceptable lynch candidates? The start, also notice "current wagons" recruiting town to control these 2 wagons. At this point, we were closing in on the deadline. (The admin later moved the deadline back a couple hours which gave us more time than we thought.) The town had agreed we needed to ensure a lynch, and no one had a majority yet. I reached out to both sides of the aisle, and pulled my towniest mobile read from the Super wagon, and the towniest mobile read from the Kirby wagon. If the goal is to ensure the lynch with time winding down, it doesn't make sense to try to gather votes for a third party so close to the deadline. That's not to say I didn't like both wagons; I thought both were scum. Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 07:42 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
To the rest of y'all, is there anyone else that is okay with lynching either target tonight? I know you may lean one way or another, but to avoid mafia deadline shenanigans that may lead to a No Lynch (or mislynch) day, this would work better with one more person. More recruiting but you have to be ok with these 2 wagons. Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 08:31 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
DOUBLE SECRET TRIBUNAL MEETING
Attn: If you are not part of the Incredible Tribunal For Make Great Benefit Lynching Daily, you must stop reading this post now and cover your eyes.
Alright, now that all the legit folks are in here, I think we've gotten some useful information. We've confirmed that we control 4 mobile votes today (this may change in the future). Sponge, Umasi, Rainbows, Nightcat.
In addition, we have two semi-mobile votes in Chromatically (probably) and hzflank (maybe probably), both unconfirmed however. We could go after the scummiest Other. The more I think about Rainbow's 'town-town' claim, the more it seems like a possibility. I'm still leaning Super as scummiest, but we can talk about that after I get thoughts on the following play:
We could totally drop Gotard or Koshi tonight if we wanted.
Koshi is in the 'too scum to be scum' category for me right now. Gonna dive his filter. Gotard is gotard. For right now, I want tribunal thoughts on this play. So this is where you say you are ok with gotard, but you offer no case at all. After this you say ok we will keep the wagons the same, and just read other peoples cases without makeing your own. It was close to the deadline. There wasn't a lot of time to post cases. I floated the idea to see if other people thought Gotard was scummy enough to ninja-lynch, and the response I got seemed to be 'yes, he's scummy, but no let's stick with the wagons'. So I dropped it. Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 01:53 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 15 2013 23:46 Nightcat99 wrote:
I just woke up but i have a question i been thinking about.
Regardless that there is a mislynch, do you think the scum will kill one of the tribunal tonight to ensure that theres less voting power tonight, and if none of them die tonight does that make a the tribunal suspicious? For the record, the Tribunal is not a persistent entity. It was formed based on the flexible votes for the Day. Tomorrow, if it is necessary, it will be composed of an entirely new set of people (which may or may not include me). The group is valuable because it has vote mobility. It was necessary because Town needed to ensure a lynch. It wont be necessary, it wasnt necessary. The only time we need to be afraid of vote switches for a no lynch is if there are a majority on one person who is scum and a second scum is on the same wagon, and the second scum jumps off for a mislynch, well guess what we now have 2 almost confirmed scum to lynch at that point. Only time this is really dangerous is if we are at yolo. Scum arent going to make a mislynch on someone not scum, and town better not be stupid enough to let a mislynch through. What you did was recruit people who you made sure were ok with only the current wagons and made sure no one got off. What you did was incredibly scummy here and I dont know why I am the only one who really sees what happened. I explained why I thought the Tribunal was a good play: It ensured a lynch (and took the lynch power out of mafia hands). It also gave us some valuable reads on the members and Nightcat for the Town to analyze. This accusation reeks of Captain Hindsight, and no one echoed your opinion in the heat of the moment. Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 07:12 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 16 2013 07:03 Xzavier wrote:i remember asking people to check the Tribunal after it was just the three of them, what i mostly wanted to know was who tried to join them, nobody came out and directly said as such, but when the list of votes they controlled came out somebody knew was on the list: Nightcat, a hardcore lurker at the time. now he was not invited to join this team, i dont recall him asking to either, i just remember him following the wishes of it.(However indirectly as it may be) This blinks scummy on my scumdar. On July 15 2013 08:19 Nightcat99 wrote:can you make a case defending why you would not vote for JrKirby at this time?
Can you tell me why you think Superfluous is the better lynch target? no i cannot make a case to not vote for jrkirby because i stated that i want to make sure to have 1 person lynch, when i came back it seem super was the more likely target but since you guys disagree. ##UNVOTE ##VOTE JRKIRBY being given the option of switching his vote for a simple reason of "since you guys disagree" and not making a case or updating any reads is bad, because its a super easy for scum to hide without drawing any attention to himself. his entire reason for voting is "the person whos more likely to be lynched" thats a roundabout way of describing a scums voting pattern. they want to blend in and not stick out. So throwing his vote early and the person more likely to be lynched is a great way to lurk successfully.
My scumdar says Scum on nightcat right now______ now im happy with how hurricane reacted to me saying keep your circle small and that further solidifies my stupidly massive town read on him(sponge) (scum would want to try to control as many votes as possible, they would already control the "holes" in there town circle) so the people saying that one of the three is scum, its not him: The points brought up against rainbow has totally shattered the confidence of my town read on him, his actions are nonsensical. I think that Usami is town still as he has played a far more pro-town game and has cut out almost all of his spam (from games iv previously played with him) while i know meta is bad to use for a case in newbie games, but i feel like a scum wouldnt try so hard to improve his town play as they would replicate it. This is another reason for my Umasi read after all of that. if we are assuming scum tried to get one player onto the "tribunal" they were either succesful and got Rainbows on it, or used it as an excuse for nightcat to sheep his vote. Good analysis, but I don't think Scum tried to get one of their own onto the Tribunal. That would only make sense if it were a Scum-Town lynch. I'm leaning toward thinking Super was Town, which makes yesterday a Town-Town lynch. Why would scum care how we shuffled our votes on the titanic? They're just happy a lynch is happening. To me, apathy yesterday would be a much stronger correlation with scumminess (a point that can be taken in tandem with your analysis). So now you are saying it was town town lynch? What changed your mind on super? The ease of which we could throw votes around was a big part of it. If it were town-scum, I would have expected more backlash from someone (scumbuddy) when we piled votes onto one of the candidates with time running down. Also, if you think Nightcat is scum, that supports the town-town lynch theory. There are other reasons, but I went over them already in my post analyzing the consequences of the Super wagon if he were scum. Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 02:17 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Running with that, if Super is scum, the next logical avenue to chase down is the Kirby lynch. If Superfluous is scum, then either he was bussed, or there were scum entrenched on the Kirby wagon. StiM/Onegu, Chromatically, and Gotard were the three entrenched votes. I don't think Onegu/StiM or Chromatically are scum (and Chrom offered that his vote was semi-mobile). But it's hard to believe that only one scum (Gotard, in this case) was on a wagon to save their team. So I guess a Day 1 bus is possible.
Chasing down the Bus Super avenue, that'd tag HZ as the only likely scum on that wagon (as the guy who started the wagon). Now, hz is a phenomenal mafia player, but that's a hell of a play. He was ready to paint his face and go to war to get Super lynched. Everyone has to make that call on their own. I don't think scum would bus like that, and most of the thread thinks hz is town.
Neither of these scenarios seem as likely as a town/town wagon with an arbitrary distribution of scumvotes to me. : Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 09:55 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Onegu, I'm repeating this now so it will hopefully sink in by the time the lynch comes around.
I believe it is currently the Mafia's plan to take your case and parlay it into a mislynch. Once I refute your case, please don't be overwhelmed by confirmation bias of random people coming out of the woodwork agreeing with you. They are likely scum. Already said it but this post is incredibly scummy. PEOPLE OF THE THREAD WHEN ONEGUS CASE IS SOLID AND PEOPLE START TO AGREE THEY ARE SCUM VOTE THEM NOT ME! If you think that this is a scummy play, that's your opinion. It's not, and you'll find that out in endgame, I guess. Hint: Your case isn't solid. (And I'm not the only one who thinks so.) It's confirmation bias at its most dangerous.Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 10:10 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 16 2013 09:58 hzflank wrote:
So you suddenly think I am scum because I caught your slip? If you think that's a slip, I guess that's your right. I thought you were a better player, so the more reasonable explanation to me at this point is that you're the SK (omg you slipped because you knew it was SK and not vig after the kill) or scum than town. Although it looks like Onegu is going to be in full tunnel mode despite the obvious flaws in his train-of-thought during the downtime. On July 15 2013 10:13 Onegu wrote:Sorry hope you guus dont mind if I post as I go, some of it may have been addressed already but I want to give my take like it just happend. I would have been all over the stim lynch. I really want to lynch all liars. Then hurricane says Immediately, the first thing I thought of was that there is no way in hell the scum QT would let him continue ranting and raving like this. They would have told him immediately to chill out and claim he was joking too, or something. Bolding because this is the first real revelation I've had on this case. There is no way you can know this my first game sometimes I would ask a question and not get a reponse for hours, so there is no way you should ever make this assumption. It was unique analysis that I was bringing to the table. I would assume scum would be very active in the early stages of the game, laying plans and setting out to plot our demise. I don't think it's unreasonable to speculate in this manner, especially considering Onegu can confirm that I was right in my read (StiM / Onegu is not scum). At the least it's independent analysis and a null read. I'm actually pretty proud of that point. On July 15 2013 11:04 Onegu wrote:On July 14 2013 03:21 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 17:01 Umasi wrote:
why is me thinking he's slightly towny a big deal though? I wouldn't say it's a big deal. I just wanted to see what evidence you had gathered to make your read, because it's useful for the town if you can help us identify Chrom as town. @Chrom: + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 19:17 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +@Chrom: Can you explain what this post means? On July 13 2013 13:23 Chromatically wrote:
If everyone who just randomly popped out to soft call me sum could actually give their opinions on the situation, that'd be great. I also have a nitpick with this post: On July 13 2013 14:04 Chromatically wrote:
Yes, we'll technically never be able to totally disprove the possibility that Stim is town. It's just far less likely. Look at what Stim has done.
Lie about his anger
Town motivation: none
Scum motivation: screwed up the explanation because the anger was faked in the first place
Martyr
Town motivation: none, far more likely that he just explains
Scum motivation: knows he can't explain, so he acts emotional to get people to switch I feel like the anger was definitely real, and StiM was trying play play Mr. Cool Cat by claiming that he was really in control the whole time, and just pretended to be angry. Still not clear what that motivation could have been, but the above 2x2 leaves out some key points and I feel you're making a bit more assumptions that you usually do... Several people suddenly posted to tell Stim that I could be scum, and then didn't actually give an opinion on Stim. It was really wierd. You've brought up this same idea a few times about Stim trying to "act cool", but I don't see any particular reason to believe it. Why do you? As I've said before, there will always be a possibility of a town explanation, it's just less likely. If Stim is town, he'll return with a clear explanation. If you want to bring up meta, town should have lynched Stim in XLII. He could have easily been scum, and I said as much in the obs. A more convincing point is that Stim never reacted this way to pressure in XLIII, even though several votes were thrown on him over the course (if I remember). Hypothetical: If Stim doesn't return, what will you do? If Stim hadn't have returned, I'd probably drop the issue entirely and focus my efforts elsewhere, anticipating a /replacement or mod action. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 19:28 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 16:29 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 16:02 Umasi wrote:
Alright, here, hurricane. Who do you think is worth voting at this time?
From your post, I got the gist that it'd be Superfluous or me. Is that correct? I'm still a bit mad at StiM for his post implying that it was our job to keep him entertained. I'm going to give myself some time to cool off on that, because I don't appreciate people quitting on my team (if he is in fact town). This is a time investment for everybody, and it's damn selfish of him to pack up his ball and go home after really light pressure. Townville: Kirby pressured me appropriately after my opener. I like that. He also seems to have the same attitude as me regarding the quick StiMwagon: On July 13 2013 13:31 jrkirby wrote:
2 votes land on a guy is quick succession, I'd be stupid if I weren't at least a BIT suspicious. As far as I can tell, stim is just acting like a bit of an idiot, is flustered, and frustrated. Doesn't seem like scumtell to me. You're free to have your vote, and I don't have a solid scumread on either of you, but I will be looking a bit more closely at your filters. hz is aggressively posting reads and seems to emulate my thoughts on the early Superfluous post: On July 13 2013 09:42 hzflank wrote:I think Jrkirby's and Sponge's opening posts had the same motivation: to get discussion moving. Both have done this and we have multiple discussions taking place. Since then, Sponge did a little coaching. Sponge has come under pressure from multiple people (for his opening post), and has dealt with it while being reasonably open. The only time that he has not been open is by refusing to post the other version of his opening post. Sponge did a little coaching again as he tried to stop Umasi from defending him. So far my read on Sponge has moved very slightly towards town. Since his opening, Jrkirby has attacked Sponge for his opening post, and done nothing else. That's fine because it is early and Jrkirby is pushing to get a reaction from someone. This is not scummy to me, null read. Umasi has defended Hurricane, which cannot be viewed as scummy at this point. Umasi has attacked Superfluous. I would say that this attack could be scummy as it is based on nothing, but it could just be to get Super to post more (he only has one post). Umasi then repeats that he thinks Super's post is scummy and votes for him. The problem I have with this is that Umasi claims Super's only post was scummy, when I do not think that it was. On July 13 2013 08:33 Superfluous wrote:
While I agree that we should lynch someone if they are super scummy, I'd like to point out that voting for no lynch is an option. Assuming I'm interpreting the rules/setup right, mafia only has 1 kp so there's no immediate motive for lynching such as reducing kp. It may be a stronger play to not lynch and hope that cop(if there is one) gets a turn to check before lynch. It is a risk though because I believe we are not guaranteed to have a cop. Just an idea I wanted to throw out and get your guys' thoughts on. If Umasi was looking for a reaction then I do not understand why he posted: On July 13 2013 08:59 Umasi wrote:
Where the hell are you. You popped in, gave a single post, that I think is scummy as crap, still haven't show back up. Pretty confusing, because the post you gave was irrelevant. How was Super's post scummy as crap? I do not think that Umasi is looking for scum, and if he is not just fishing for Super to respond then I think that Umasi is just looking for a neutral place to put his early vote. Unlike Jrkirby's, Umasi's vote is not a troll vote. I have a slight scum read on Umasi. Xzavier posted some decent thoughts (although he really didn't go out on any limbs): On July 13 2013 11:19 Xzavier wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Superfluous wrote:
While I agree that we should lynch someone if they are super scummy, I'd like to point out that voting for no lynch is an option. Assuming I'm interpreting the rules/setup right, mafia only has 1 kp so there's no immediate motive for lynching such as reducing kp. It may be a stronger play to not lynch and hope that cop(if there is one) gets a turn to check before lynch. It is a risk though because I believe we are not guaranteed to have a cop. Just an idea I wanted to throw out and get your guys' thoughts on. i know usami has touched on this, but i see voting for No-lynch is like sacrificing a townie or playing russian roullet for zero prize money. its just basically saying "i want to start this game a townie down" it seems silly to me, if somebody comes and gives me an ungodly reason for no-lynching ill hear it. but i see it as silly. Also from playing with usami before, hes a super fucking hyper aggressive person who needs like a single post to tunnel somebody for a full day, that can be bad. we need to keep our eyes open and looking at multiple people. As i learned my first game, a tunnel vision day1 can lead to a mislynch, or in this gametype, a no-lynch. Its far better to lynch scum, and thats what we should try to do. Even day1 we lynch either a lurker or our top scumread, if nobody has any strong scumreads, lynching the scummiest lurker is the best townplay day1. (it yields the highest chance of killing scum while creating the best pro-town enviroment) with that im also shocked of how active stim-addict is being. its nice to see a usual lurker picking it up leaving less for the scum to hide behind :D again, even Superfluous is at the top of my scumdar, he isnt high enough to deserve a vote yet. I want to lynch a lurker or superfluous depending on how he reacts to our posts and the events of the day. if the rest of it goes uneventful/no major scumslips i want to fuck up a lurker as i believe that to be the best pro-town action. Rainbows is active and is claiming credit for the StiM wagon. If StiM is town, as I suspect, I don't think scum would be claiming lead on an eventual green flip: On July 13 2013 15:43 Rainbows wrote:
Sponge, I started the whole Stim thing. Chrom just questioned both of us then pooped all over him with it :p Planet Neutral:I've found confusing material on Chrom that some may deem scummy (misrepresenting facts, leaping to conclusions, overblowing alignment-neutral mistakes). However, he also did his usual early game Poke'n'Prod, getting people to clarify their random claims that might otherwise have gone unchecked (very town). Umasi is incredibly active, and hunting. The logic leaps, confirmation bias, and clumsy attacks aren't really helping the town, however (other than to just provide really obvious pressure). If there was a shade between Green and Black, I'd use it because I think the three options for Umasi are 'Bad Town' 'Good Scum' and 'Good Town That I Just Have Trouble Reading For Whatever Reason'. Scum Central:Superfluous has a lot of ground to make up. I don't like people attacking him for his bad policy, but at the end of the day, that's not the only thing going against him. I really disagree with his reads, and that has to account for something: On July 13 2013 12:24 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 10:59 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 10:49 StiMaDDict wrote:
I may be biased but I put Chromatically as the most capable scumhunter. In last game, he pretty much had the whole scum team Day1. It goes without saying that I do not Chromatically's alignment as of right now.
@Chromatically Your current scum reads? Superfluous looks really bad, he's been apologetic in his posts (not trying to rock the boat) and has only said what others have already said. It looks like he's trying hard to find anything to post about because he wants to look active. On July 13 2013 10:05 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 09:55 Umasi wrote:
Superfluous, do you have any current scum reads? At the moment no, as I said I was gone for a couple hours then came back and just skimmed through the thread . I mean to go through it again in more detail once I'm finished defending myself or w/e. Two things are on my mind though. One is that I think you are town (not just to suck up to you b/c you are pressuring me). Reasons being that in my personal experience those who are most aggressive are generally town, and also that this is a semi-noob game so I'm unsure if a mafia would have the confidence to go out and control the game/ put pressure on early on. Another thing is that I dont think I've seen much (if anything) from Cloud 9. He may be in same situation as me and I'll give him Benefit of the doubt though. It's extremely odd that he specifically points out Cloud-9 as opposed to any of the other players who haven't posted. This shows pretty clearly that he's not trying at all to find scum, he doesn't even know who hasn't posted. Also looking at Kirby. Lurkers be lurking. As I said I just skimmed over after returning. Cloud 9 was a name I didn't see when comparing the posts I saw to the player list, so I pointed it out. And I have been trying to get something to talk about other than what seem to be mini discussions between certain people. I also don't get why you're attacking me saying "I'm not trying to find scum". In my own post I said that I was going to look it over again and get reads, obviously meaning that I hadn't looked that hard for scum yet. Right now my biggest scum read is HZflank, because I still think Umasi is doing mostly pro town moves yet hz says its scummy. If it pushes to me actually being lynched I think that I'd still feel this way. He also had an early post or two that distracted somewhat from the discussion, which I'm always suspicious of. I'll give nightcat benefit of the doubt. It's a bit weird he showed up once his name came up but eh. I realize thats not really a great reason but seems like we're in semi-similar situations. Xzavier I'm more suspicious of, he didnt have many posts then in his first one he shows up saying he'll consider lynching me. It's really scummy play to lurk then show up ready to lynch imo. These are some wierd-ass wierd reads (formatted in a list, might I add...). You give town reads to a large number of people based on almost nothing? You say that me and Umasi are actively scumhunting, and then say we're null? All followed by a sheep on Super while waiting to commit to Stim. It all feels really odd. Why is xzavier more townie then Umasi/me? Why did you post town reads in the first place? I'm surprised you do not agree with my reads. I shall re-evaluate them. You are Neutral to me for the reasons I mentioned: while you and Umasi are scumhunting (+), I believe you're doing it in an anti-town manner (-). That is: making logical leaps, confirmation bias, poor analysis. Scum can scumhunt too, and that's exactly how I imagine they'd do it. I also don't feel like I'm sheeping Superfluous. I raised some independent analysis regarding him in my earlier post (centering on the fact that our reads are very different, signifying a disconnect from my own POV that is significant enough to be Town-Scum). Are there any other glaring mistakes in particular you'd like to hear my thoughts on? On July 13 2013 19:37 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 15:53 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 15:43 Rainbows wrote:
Sponge, I started the whole Stim thing. Chrom just questioned both of us then pooped all over him with it :p Chrom has made a couple missteps that I would consider 'uncharacteristic'. At the very least, they are poor play I did not expect from him. 1. His enthusiasm to lynch StiM after the blow-up (surely we can all see that it was more likely immature and pissy play from StiM and alignment-independent) contained logical leaks and overblows the importance of whether StiM lied about being mad or not. 2. Saying Superfluous was trying to not 'make waves' when he was the lone voice speaking up for an unpopular policy (Day 1 No Lynch) More importantly, when viewed as a whole, the bolded section above is a big stop sign on my vote to lynch StiM: Why would scum not alert StiM that everyone and their mother knew the jokepost was a joke and let him carry on in this manner? He'd have to be willfully disobeying his team, or (more likely) flying solo. If someone can give me a satisfactory answer to that, I'd feel much better about a StiM lynch. 1) You seem confident that Stim's blowup was alignment independent, can you address my earlier posts about why it's more likely from scum? I think it's pretty hard to overblow the importance of someone lying about their motivation without being able to explain it. You disagree? 2) The apologetic tone is the entire reason why Super looks bad. He's trying not to draw attention to himself and not to incite anyone (scummy). The Nolynch thing is totally non alignment indicative, which you should know. Explain your scumread on Super more. On July 13 2013 12:24 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 10:59 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 10:49 StiMaDDict wrote:
I may be biased but I put Chromatically as the most capable scumhunter. In last game, he pretty much had the whole scum team Day1. It goes without saying that I do not Chromatically's alignment as of right now.
@Chromatically Your current scum reads? Superfluous looks really bad, he's been apologetic in his posts (not trying to rock the boat) and has only said what others have already said. It looks like he's trying hard to find anything to post about because he wants to look active. On July 13 2013 10:05 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 09:55 Umasi wrote:
Superfluous, do you have any current scum reads? At the moment no, as I said I was gone for a couple hours then came back and just skimmed through the thread . I mean to go through it again in more detail once I'm finished defending myself or w/e. Two things are on my mind though. One is that I think you are town (not just to suck up to you b/c you are pressuring me). Reasons being that in my personal experience those who are most aggressive are generally town, and also that this is a semi-noob game so I'm unsure if a mafia would have the confidence to go out and control the game/ put pressure on early on. Another thing is that I dont think I've seen much (if anything) from Cloud 9. He may be in same situation as me and I'll give him Benefit of the doubt though. It's extremely odd that he specifically points out Cloud-9 as opposed to any of the other players who haven't posted. This shows pretty clearly that he's not trying at all to find scum, he doesn't even know who hasn't posted. Also looking at Kirby. Lurkers be lurking. As I said I just skimmed over after returning. Cloud 9 was a name I didn't see when comparing the posts I saw to the player list, so I pointed it out. And I have been trying to get something to talk about other than what seem to be mini discussions between certain people. I also don't get why you're attacking me saying "I'm not trying to find scum". In my own post I said that I was going to look it over again and get reads, obviously meaning that I hadn't looked that hard for scum yet. Right now my biggest scum read is HZflank, because I still think Umasi is doing mostly pro town moves yet hz says its scummy. If it pushes to me actually being lynched I think that I'd still feel this way. He also had an early post or two that distracted somewhat from the discussion, which I'm always suspicious of. I'll give nightcat benefit of the doubt. It's a bit weird he showed up once his name came up but eh. I realize thats not really a great reason but seems like we're in semi-similar situations. Xzavier I'm more suspicious of, he didnt have many posts then in his first one he shows up saying he'll consider lynching me. It's really scummy play to lurk then show up ready to lynch imo. I really don't like that last part where he gives one lurker the FoS, but a second one a free pass in the same post. I don't like that his reads seem diametrically opposed to mine, which implies a significant difference in frame-of-reference. I don't like his case on HZ (which is a case in name only). I don't like that he's suspicious of townies who enter the thread willing to lynch. On July 13 2013 21:48 Chromatically wrote:
Sponge, could you also elaborate on you Umasi read? As I told Umasi late last night when we were the only two in the thread, I love his scumhunting, but I cringe at his methods. He's got a big problem with confirmation bias and attacking his target when he should just be poking, bringing the level of discourse down into the mud too soon. Like I said in the earlier post, I think he's Green-Black: Bad Town, Good Scum, or Good Town That I Just Can't Read. The early game aggression is much preferred to the alternative (lurking), but if he keeps some of these traits up into the late game, I'm worried for town. Moving on: On July 13 2013 21:54 Koshi wrote:I am from Belgium guys, This game started at 12PM and I was tired after a working week. I read the thread once now and my initial (this is without using filters, just reading all the posts) is that H.Sponge build enough town kred to not get lynched day 1 no matter what. I loved his opening post, and I loved his defense on that post. Even if he is scum, he has been very helpful to town, and every town should go and read that opening post. Scum reads are on Umasi and Chroma. Umasi because his entire early posts were just sucking up to H.Sponge, which is just not useful at all, H. Sponge clearly doesn't need to be defended like this. Another thing I dont like about Umasi is him trying to redirect the thread twice for a Superfluous train on a rather useless moment. Superfluous entered the thread with a bad post, but went afk after, which is not a clear scumread. Not enough the get a train going, and make the rest of the day useless. Chroma is currently tunneling so heavily on StiMaDDict. The guy is afk, treat him as an afk bad town till he comes back. It is a good thing to spark some conversation around StiMaDDict, but at this point I feel that Chroma is derailing more than necessarily. It's just tunneling into oblivion. I start filtering now: Reading Chroma his filter I get a serious scum vibe. Post like this: On July 13 2013 11:39 Chromatically wrote:
Also just noticed that Sponge hasn't given a single opinion on anyone all game after saying that he wanted people to judge him on his scumhunting, interesting. This is just being a jack-ass, at least it would be if you say things like this in real life. In mafia it is trying to put suspicion onto somebody without saying anything. I haven't crosschecked this message with the referring Sponge message but it feels dirty. What was your intention while typing this down Chromo? @ Chromo, Do you agree that this is a very suspicious post? And explain to me why it is "interesting" that Sponge likes to have interaction on his scumreads while playing this game? Reading Umasi his filter after the Chroma filter makes me want to lynch one of these 2 guys. Umasi and Chroma are either bromancing it up on the stimaddict lynch, or they are both scum. Here is Umasi his game till now: --> Defend Sponge while pushing lynch on Superfluous. --> Argue with Sponge about Chroma while pusing a lynch on StiMaDDict. I hate Umasi and Chrom as lynch targets for Day 1. Town does not want to lynch guys this active and scumhunting this hard. Regardless of the fact that I think Superfluous is scummier at this point, I'd push for a Lurker lynch over one of either of Umasi or Chrom. ---------------- Current Events: I think StiM's case on Kirby is weak. Lots of fallacies in there. Everything quoted is interpreted single-mindedly as scum, and even the stuff that's pro town is justified as 'this is clearly scum trying to look town'. Please re read this post. He doesnt like someone because they have a different POV. Italso seems like he wants people to be with his scumhunting methods. Early in the game, someone having vastly disparate reads from you is noticeable. I think that's reasonable suspicion. The second part of your concern doesn't really make sense. Maybe you can elaborate. On July 15 2013 14:47 Onegu wrote:On July 15 2013 07:30 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 15 2013 07:26 Rainbows wrote:
Acceptable yes. Im really unsure of who to vote but super seems best imo.
Both might be town. You mentioned that, and that's why this is sort of an unholy alliance. Even though the odds are staggeringly in your favor, I would actually be more inclined to believe they were both scum rather than both town. I feel like I have a decent eye for town-on-town crime, although to be fair, kirby and super haven't been sniping at each other NEARLY enough for my taste. Regardless, this is good news. Now we just need Umasi to confirm he finds both players scummy, and we can decide this lynch. This just seems like you are setting your self up that no matter the flip you dont get heat. I honestly don't know what Onegu is reading. So I'm not allowed to update my reads as people post more content? Onegu is in full confirmation bias mode now. On July 15 2013 14:49 Onegu wrote:On July 15 2013 07:24 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
@ Umasi
@ Rainbows
We three control this lynch. I think everyone else is entrenched (via either conviction or inactivity). If you agree, we need to establish some things between the three of us.
First, do we all agree that both of the current wagons are acceptable lynch candidates? Here you make sure 100% that the wagons stay exacty the same there will be one of these 2 town lynched. Here, you look silly because I tried to orchestrate an off-man lurker lynch late in day 1, proving this point completely false. On July 15 2013 15:57 Onegu wrote:
Scumteam
Hurricane
Koshi
Rainbow/gotard
I am really confidant in my hurricane read btw, he made sure he led the council and could make sure we never got off a town/town bandwagon. Alot of his posts just seem like he wants town cred, unlike last game. I didn't know it was a town/town bandwagon, and at the end actually tried to get a Gotard lynch with the votes we'd accumulated. Read the thread. Also, I've openly refused town cred for posts that I don't think deserved it (first one). On July 15 2013 19:16 Onegu wrote:On July 15 2013 18:50 Gotard wrote:Hi Onegu. Nice to see ya! Chromatically - For me he looks more like a town that mafia. He tends to put himself in a headlights by creating wagons and defending them really strongly with no fear (but sometimes he's tunneling himself like when he was pressuring Stim). In 'The Super Case' he brought good points and made some more room for discussion. Would he make such a strong defense to save his scum buddy? I don't thing so because after Super flipping scum he would be in a big trouble. Pushing lynch isn't scummy if you have good points and your target barely shows and signs of life innocence. On July 15 2013 15:57 Onegu wrote:
Scumteam
Hurricane
Koshi
Rainbow/gotard
I am really confidant in my hurricane read btw, he made sure he led the council and could make sure we never got off a town/town bandwagon. Alot of his posts just seem like he wants town cred, unlike last game. Hurricane ensured lynch that day. Everyone agreed that both of them are super scummy. I think leadership like that is useful when you need majority to lynch. His posts are super pro town in general and leading town like that even in wrong direction isn't scummy to me. Koshi - reading comprehension... I will address him later after reading his filter. I will say this it is hard for me to be objective since I already knew there was a mislynch, but I tried my best, but you are right he made sure there was a lynch, but he made sure to focus on those two and didnt let it drift away, if he is scum he knows it is a town town bandwagon it doesnt matter he ensures a lynch as long as he ensures it on one of them, which is what he did. Again, Onegu hammering the point that I was holding the town hostage on a town/town lynch when in reality, I tried to get a 3rd party lynch going once we had the votes for it. Umasi and StiM actually put the axe to my idea of moving off the two candidates. And as we know... StiM is actually Gotard... First point. It is unreasonable as there is no way you can know or guess what is going on im scum qt unless you are scum. And really you are looking at me to confirm I am town? It's unreasonable to speculate how my enemies are acting? Isn't that the point of the game? Second point. No no its not, if someone has different reads then you when the information is still limited isnt in any way scummy or reason for suspicion. Also I was wrong on the second part, you post a little bit on the "right way to scumhunt" which is null not scummy We disagree about that. I'm pretty confident in my ability to read town, and if someone thinks my top town reads are scum, that gets my attention. Third Point. You might be correct I could be biased here. Fourth Point. No you didnt, you say one time very close to deadline where it would be to dangerous to get 7 vote switchs and risk a mislynch. And you didnt even offer a case on him. Fifth Point. Again you never make a case, and earlier you make sure when you recruit to get people who are currently ok with the 2 wagons so why would they switch. You're just repeating yourself here, but I won't do the same.
Answers in green.
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On July 18 2013 01:12 Gotard wrote:
Hurricane Sponge you want my top town reads to be scummy?
The logic for your town reads should be 'he said this _____ which I think is pro town' or 'he has been scumhunting effectively all game'. It should not be 'everyone else thinks he's town so I guess I do too'. That kind of groupthink is incredibly dangerous to yourself and the town.
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On July 18 2013 01:53 hzflank wrote:
Sponge, how did you go from thinking that you would be the nightkill target on night 1, to thinking that you will never be the nightkill target?
What? I don't think I'll never be the nightkill target. In fact, I think I'm dying tonight. Can you point to where I said I think I will never be NK'd?
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Oh. I guess I meant like... the afterparty? Where we can all see the obs thread, and can talk freely? What would you call that?
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For the record, it looks like Alakaslam put his vote on me. Interesting play, my friend.
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Obviously I hope I live to the endgame. But that's a different matter. If Onegu is in full blown balls-to-the-wall HAM tunnel confirmation bias mode, it's going to complicate LYLO / MYLO situations as long as we're both alive.
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On July 18 2013 01:59 Gotard wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 01:40 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 18 2013 01:12 Gotard wrote:
Hurricane Sponge you want my top town reads to be scummy? The logic for your town reads should be 'he said this _____ which I think is pro town' or 'he has been scumhunting effectively all game'. It should not be 'everyone else thinks he's town so I guess I do too'. That kind of groupthink is incredibly dangerous to yourself and the town. And this is my logic. But Nightcat attacked me that my town reads are generally considered as town and suddenly they can't be counted because it's to safe too put them into my top town list.
It's fine for your top reads to be the same as everyone else's. But the reason for them being your top reads is a bad one. You're basically sheeping your town reads. If you explained WHY your top reads are your top reads (give us some insight on your thought process) then you give us something to work with.
Requesting reads from you isn't a multiple choice quiz. It's not "Give the right answer, or we lynch you." Honestly, the names are probably the least important part. What we want is your thought process on how you arrived to the conclusions. Show your work.
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On July 18 2013 02:01 hzflank wrote:
No that's fine. Your answers just read very differently when you view endgame as the final mod post ("You will see why I did it when I am alive at the end of the game!").
Ah well. No edit buttons. If you substitute 'post-game' for 'endgame' in the megapost, it should make more sense to you. I'd be shocked if I survived to the LYLO/MYLO 'endgame' scenario. My only chance at avoiding the NK is if Onegu is town, and the mafia think he's going to tunnel me the whole way down.
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On July 18 2013 02:05 Gotard wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 02:02 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
You're basically sheeping your town reads. I don't understand what do you mean.
When there is pressure on someone, a lot of times other people jump in with their vote on them without giving reasons. This is called sheeping.
You're doing this, but with Town reads. You see someone that a lot of people think is town, and you give them a town read without analyzing them yourself. You're just following the pack.
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When do we start exploring a Super lynch over Gotard? He's still lurking (as we knew he would without pressure). Gotard has responded and given us a little bit to go off of for today's lynch.
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On July 18 2013 02:18 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 02:13 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
When do we start exploring a Super lynch over Gotard? He's still lurking (as we knew he would without pressure). Gotard has responded and given us a little bit to go off of for today's lynch. Did Gotard's responses make him townier to you?
No. But I want Super to post.
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@Alakaslam
I'm very eager to hear your thoughts on my answers to Onegu's case.
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On July 18 2013 03:04 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 01:11 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 17 2013 20:28 Onegu wrote:On July 13 2013 13:02 Nightcat99 wrote:
Ya I got nothing to say about the timing of my respond, I was taking the train so I had time to respond, and now I am In the hotel bit thet got a lot of alcohol so if I start posting nonsense, I blame the alcohol.
I will be honest that I don't have a read on super yet, it just feels like he might be busy like me and today is the first day so I will need to find some time to reread everything when I am home.
I however feel that the beginning of the ame is not a time for witch hurt but a time to establish your innocent, because there is only 3 scum and 10 iinnocent, if we are able to find 4 innocent to work together, we shall not be able to lose.
Btw, if there is any grammar or spelling error in my post, I apologize in advance, it's really hard to type o. The phone. I know this is conspiracy crazy but if hurricane and nightcat were scum together, here is the start of the tribunal.On July 15 2013 08:50 Nightcat99 wrote:
lol hzflank my vote is not suspicious because they dont need my vote for a switch. regardless who i vote they still have 3 people to lynch either kirby or super, my vote is just away to prove my innocents and that i am mobile and active now. Votes in no way are a way to prove innocense. On July 15 2013 09:29 Nightcat99 wrote:and the game got really hectic, i will be honest that i really wanted to switch out of jrkirby ont he last few minutes because his last minute insight is very sounded and seems very townie. Ok, Gotard is an excellent lynch target tomorrow. I think chrom should only be lynched after a scum is found, but maybe checked by cop.
I have less of a feeling about koshi, umasi, super.
Xzavier is decent, but not the best lynch.
Chrom and super should be lynched together should one of them be scum by flip or cop check.
That's the best I got, GG guys. and also since hes a proven townie now , we shall really look into his reads. I didnt want to vote the townie, guys Im innocent. On July 16 2013 09:06 Nightcat99 wrote:
just curious if none of you guys on the tribunal die , does that make me less suspicious? Again this post is really just like please dont look at me no matter what happens. On July 16 2013 11:52 Nightcat99 wrote:
Well since i feel like i am on the chopping block i will do what i can.
First off all, stim's blow up can just be a big play since he was on the chopping block, even with his claim does make him a townie by any means.
cloud posted almost nothing , if cloud continuing playing i would have put him as a lurking scum because he posted no opinion of his own but he got replaced so.....
i am still leaning that gotard is scum because of his snarky comment on every other post, it seem like he recheck his post and put those in in case there is future slip ups.
super can still be scum , nothing has change in the last 24 hour i dont know why a mislynch turn into a town - town read.
i was totally expecting either hurricane or umasi to die and didnt know see rainbow going, so even through i had strong feeling that these two were town, now i am not so sure, but if i have to pick it will be hurricane that is the scummier of the two, because hes the one that started the first day tribunal and that is a silly idea even to me. but i really have nothing .
P.S. i will keep reading and this game is hard i am getting a headache.
Talking about lurking scum because he didnt post at all. I thought you talked about makeing a group of four people to control the lynch. On July 17 2013 09:58 Nightcat99 wrote:On July 17 2013 09:45 hzflank wrote:
Thanks Nightcat. I agree with your points on Gotard and with most of your reasoning (timing of your vote, etc).
Out of interest, what do you think of Onegu? My opinion on Onegu is that he got way too much credit for stims blowup and VT claim, its like he walks into the game with a townie tag on his head and every one just accepted that. As far as i am concern, since we dont know the reason stim left, the blowup could still be a big scum play cause he feels that hes in danger. On July 15 2013 15:57 Onegu wrote:
Scumteam
Hurricane
Koshi
Rainbow/gotard
I am really confidant in my hurricane read btw, he made sure he led the council and could make sure we never got off a town/town bandwagon. Alot of his posts just seem like he wants town cred, unlike last game. This is the only post i have foound on Onegu for scum reads, every thing else is just commenting on other peoples post and giving an opinion or saying if they are good or bad, Onegu made alot of post but not alot of reads. So i would like to ask for your new scum reads now because those picks are obviously outdated and atleast 50% incorrect. That is what scum hunting is... Alot of I am sorry in his filter also. That was nightcat volunteering to sheep the Tribunal. We controlled his vote, but in no way did I trust him to be Town. All he proved is that his vote was mobile (which gave me reads on whether it was a town-town lynch if we can flip Nightcat red). Nope you are wrong here his post is on page 20, the tribual being started by you was page 41.
Oh, sorry. I thought that was the quote of him sheeping us after the formation (reading comprehension yay). The point stands that he was never a part of the Tribunal, and was just sheeping his vote around at our request. He was never a strong enough town read for me to trust him as such and (as xzavier pointed out) the Tribunal was most effective when limited to 3 people.
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On July 18 2013 03:09 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 02:25 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
@Alakaslam
I'm very eager to hear your thoughts on my answers to Onegu's case. I like them, you did quite well. But that isn't why I voted you. Meta meta! Thou art a bombastically assured individual this game, not the hurricane I know*. Then again I have changed some as well. Of course, at this point I am solo voting you**, why do this in majority***? So see the thread. I had already liked a Gotard lynch before****.
*: Using meta
**: Misrepreseting facts (see: lying)
***: WIFOM
****: Unwillingness to vote Gotard despite scum read
Not a good look, slambro.
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For the record, someone like Alakaslam is exactly who I was trying to draw out by deferring my defense for so long.
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On July 18 2013 03:18 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 01:38 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 16 2013 20:02 Onegu wrote:On July 13 2013 08:54 Hurricane Sponge wrote:Umasi, stop defending me. Don't defend people in general. It's more valuable to hear them defend themselves by tenfold. (Also, I don't want you handcuffing yourself to my ankle then flipping scum and having Town waste a bunch of time re-vetting me.) On July 13 2013 08:48 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 08:47 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:46 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 08:42 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? Correct. I would not have posted this particular post as scum. But you might have posted another post starting with the same line. Or maybe you did post that as scum. But you certainly would never have said: The following was written on the contingency I got Scum in my role PM. Hahaha! Very right you are, I hadn't thought of that. So then show us the post that you would have posted if you rolled scum, eh? This is a very reasonable request, but unfortunately I will not be posting it at this time for a couple reasons. First, it's not as impressive as the one I posted. Second, I intend to stay active in this community and will probably end up using a version of it at some point when (if?) I ever get that 'You Are Scum' PM. Why write this if you filp town, and we play in another game together and you post something similar but not as good I will tunnel you, and bring up this post. I never said my scum write-up was similar. And you're tunneling me now. And at the endgame, you'll see it was a bad move. I'm not worried about future games, I'm playing this one. Don't try to threaten me with action in future games to get some kind of result in this one. It's very bad manner. On July 13 2013 15:39 Hurricane Sponge wrote:Just caught up on the thread for entertainment purposes: First thoughts: This fits StiM's playbook to a letter. The self-vote and martyring happened in XLII. Unfortunately, this happened while he was Town, so this doesn't really tell us anything. I like that there are other reasons for the votes (haven't done proper analysis yet), but I strongly encourage people to not interpret StiM on tilt as a scumtell. Going back now to read the entire train of thought in context now: Early on, StiM breaks down why he thought the kirby jokepost wasn't credible. (This elicits a big eyeroll, but is pretty benign albeit unnecessary). + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 09:25 StiMaDDict wrote:@RainbowAlso my read on jrkirby is null. This is a response to a request for elaboration from Rainbow. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 07:41 jrkirby wrote:Ok. I've been studying this long and hard, and I think I have enough evidence to make a clear case. hzflank is scumShow nested quote +On July 09 2013 04:04 hzflank wrote:On July 09 2013 03:22 WaveofShadow wrote:On July 09 2013 03:20 hzflank wrote:On July 09 2013 02:13 Stutters695 wrote:Obligatory USE YOUR COACHESWe're great guys and here to help With WoS as the scum coach, I do not think that town will need your assistance. Uh, ouch? Need I remind you that you won a game with Ace as the scum coach too? I meant it as a compliment. Sometimes the greatest players are the worst coaches because you just cannot teach pure brilliance. Clearly, hzflank is lying about this compliment. Liars are always scum. And look who he's talking to: the scum coach. Obviously he's in league with them. He goes on, still talking to the scum: Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 04:22 hzflank wrote:On July 09 2013 04:09 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
If you vote for an hzflank lynch based on pregame meta, I will fall instantly in love with you. Then scum should night kill the first person to vote for me, because as their lover you will also die. This is an obvious admission that he wants town to die. Anyone who wants town to die is scum, end of story. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 04:19 hzflank wrote:On July 13 2013 04:09 Chromatically wrote:
I won't be here for two hours after start. Then who will call my first post scummy? I will. Right here, right now. Pregame posts when people didn't even get their role pm are evidence to his case. Do I need to say more? Show nested quote +Clearly, hzflank is lying about this compliment. Liars are always scum. And look who he's talking to: the scum coach. Obviously he's in league with them.
He goes on, still talking to the scum: Not sure where he is going with this one.. Show nested quote +This is an obvious admission that he wants town to die. Anyone who wants town to die is scum, end of story. He hasn't even fucking got his role pm and he's joking around pregame. ok.. + Show Spoiler +And for his first post: Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 07:11 hzflank wrote:
So we are using a majority vote system. As we all know there is much more chance of a No Lynch with this system than with plurality voting.
I think it is in our best interest to try to lynch someone every day. This may seem a bit odd at first, because a mis-lynch is obviously better for scum than for town. However, the only way that town will win is by lynching scum, and we will never be sure if we are lynching town or scum unless the lynch actually goes through. If we narrowly fail to lynch then we end up spending the next day discussing it and do not move forward as much.
Also, scum already know who they are. When someone is lynched the alignment information from their flip benefits town, but not scum.
Therefore, I suggest we work together as much as possible to actually get lynches through, if they are in doubt. He's trying to get us to sheep together and follow a Bandwagon instead of looking for evidence and finding scum. Finally: Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 07:31 hzflank wrote:On July 13 2013 07:26 Koshi wrote:
Are there experienced players here? People that played a decent amount of games. Everyone here has played 3 or less games. On July 13 2013 07:24 Koshi wrote:
Hi all. I played 1 newbie game in the TL+ forums and I am atm also playing in the nuclear mafia game.
I am with Rainbows on the lynching of lurkers. The tl+ game got RUINED because nobody posted. So if you are town, I want you to make around 10 posts a day. Try to make posts that are aggressive and confront people with your thought. Don't be afraid to be wrong. If you are town, please consider doing this to help town and force scum to make posts.
I think it is a bit early to be thinking about policy lynches on lurkers. Policy lynching can stifle discussion and we need discussion today. Once we get 24-36 hours in then we can consider it. Also, sometimes RL just happens for a day or two. Also, I think that there will be enough activity here. There are several players who I know will post a lot and we (the active players) cannot all die really early. Trying to defend one of the scum who is planning to lurk. You can't ignore all this evidence guys. hzflank is scum. ##Vote: hzflankShow nested quote +And for his first post:
He's trying to get us to sheep together and follow a Bandwagon instead of looking for evidence and finding scum. I am not trying to defend hzflank in any shape or form however I do not agree with jrkirby's "read" on hzflank's post and I do not think it was alignment indicative. Again I do not think this post point hzflank as a scum. Then comes the massive over-reaction: + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 09:25 StiMaDDict wrote:Another thing that is annoying the fuck out of me is that how Rainbow "interpreted" my post. This is what I wrote. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:07 StiMaDDict wrote:
I can only look at jrkirby's post as a pressure vote at this point. He didn't seem to be the type to joke around from the pre game though.
Explanation: I find a pressure vote to be a strategy for some people. It works sometimes but not all the times. jrkirby's "case" really is not something of content to be honest. I assumed that it was pressure vote to get some discussions going. So that is what I said. As for the second sentence, his "case" is really fucking bullshit, so there are two possibilities. Either he is joking around or he suck at scumhunting. Now let's look at how Rainbow made me sound like. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:20 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:07 StiMaDDict wrote:
I can only look at jrkirby's post as a pressure vote at this point. He didn't seem to be the type to joke around from the pre game though.
This post is scummy. Gives a reason for jkirbys post and then casts doubt on it. U scum? Scummy? Yes, I did give jkirby's post a reason but I didn't doubt it. If I had said it was a joke vote and he didn't seem to be a joker, your statement makes sense. I said pressure vote and nothing more. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:28 Rainbows wrote:
Yes. What is odd about his vote? Why ia this joking around suspicious? I didn't fucking say it was odd. Jesus, give me a break. I NEVER FUCKING SAID IT WAS SUSPICIOUS. Note to all: + Show Spoiler +btw, I'm really trying to stay active. Sometimes I write really slow and I might be answering something that is couple of pages back. Sometimes I write one liners. My bad. + Show Spoiler +If you don't like it, well fuck you I've read that post ten times, and can't really glean anything meaningful other than that StiM is in full-on turtle-up Defend Self At All Costs mode. Not necessarily a scumtell in a newbie game, I guess. I mean, who wants to die? Still, odd. Chromatically notes that one of these posts sits very oddly with him (I'd guess it's the second one), but StiM's next post is one defending me / going after Kirby: + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 09:30 StiMaDDict wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:22 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 09:14 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 09:10 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:57 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:54 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:42 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? Correct. I would not have posted this particular post as scum. On July 13 2013 08:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:43 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:41 Umasi wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:
[quote]
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum?
[quote]
I'd be very interested in hearing your explanation as to why you honestly think this is scummy. I certainly wouldn't post that if I were scum, it is nothing but a good thing for town. Why WOULD he want to post that as scum? to look town. Scum love to spew general pro town thingsvto get ez town cred.. This is correct. In general, these sorts of posts should result in a null read in a veteran game. But Early Day 1, when it's generally assumed nothing interesting is happening, seemed like a good time to get PSA's out of the way for a newbie crowd. The info is valuable, but it should not get me town cred. It's more important to me that there's a town consensus on the actual content of the post, not my alignment. (Plenty of time for that later.) You obviously think that your post was pro town, right? That's why you shouldn't have posted it as scum. But then you say that you shouldn't get town cred from it, indicating that you don't think it's pro town. ? Pro town in a newbie game, yes. Probably wouldn't have posted it in a Veteran game unless I really felt the Day 1 conversation stagnating early. I think all my posts are pro-town. Otherwise, why would I post them? (That should apply to everyone but those with a severe inferiority complex.) That doesn't answer the point. The point is that your logic is inconsistant. You say that you wouldn't have posted this as scum. Why? You think that the post is valuable enough to town that scum wouldn't want to post it. You think that only a townie would post it. However, you say that you shouldn't get a town read for it, even though you think that only town would post it. I'm not in the business of telling people I'm town. I'm going to scumhunt and try to win this game, and a byproduct of that should be that people will view me as town. Put another way: I don't believe posting specifically with the goal of acquiring towncred is particularly helpful in anything but circumstances where I could be mislynched. I'm prioritizing getting the Town ducks in a row here in the early going so we can move on to the scumhunt, not establishing my Townie-ness. Interestingly, people (Chrom and jrkirby) have seemed more interested in analyzing why I posted rather than what I posted. Can I infer by this that we largely agree with what I have said? Pretty much what you said was: meta is bad, this is the meta that I might accidentally do. That's fine, neither particularly good nor bad imo. But you claimed that you would only post it on the condition that you were town. You admit to having a post that you would post on the condition that you're scum (which I think is foolish), but you won't show it to us, and that's just a tiny bit suspicious. Seriously man.. this is the best you can do? If he has scum post, big deal. For all we know THIS could be his scum post. Who knows. Is this your first game jrkirby? So early in the game, I have felt pressure from Kirby and Chrom, while receiving unsolicited White Knighting from Umasi and StiM. (Side note: If there's some crazy mafia play floating around out there to chum up to me to make me look scummy after you guys flip Red, that's a losing strategy, boys.) Important post from hz regarding StiM flipping out while everyone else interpreted the jokepost as a joke: + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 09:58 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:44 Rainbows wrote:
What do you think about Stims reaction, HZ? He kinda derailed to some soft pressure :/ The first thing to note is that Stim was unsure of whether Jrkirby's post was a joke or not. Stim reacted very different than everyone else did, but this could be because he viewed it as semi-serious while everyone else viewed it as a joke. After that Stim tries to defend himself. Again Stim's reaction seems odd at first, but normal if you consider that Stim thinks the original case was serious. Stim is posting in an aggressive manner but that is more of a personality tell than an alignment tell. I cannot help but be wish-washy here and conclude: I am eager to see more from Stim because I have absolutely no read on his alignment at this point. Bolding because this is the first real revelation I've had on this case. If someone can provide a logical answer to the above, I'd appreciate it. Re: If StiM was Scum, would scum have really let him react this poorly and dig his own grave for this long? Moving on: Rainbow seems to be sheeping Chromatically's pressure on StiM a bit. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 10:01 Rainbows wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:58 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 09:25 StiMaDDict wrote:Another thing that is annoying the fuck out of me is that how Rainbow "interpreted" my post. This is what I wrote. On July 13 2013 08:07 StiMaDDict wrote:
I can only look at jrkirby's post as a pressure vote at this point. He didn't seem to be the type to joke around from the pre game though.
Explanation: I find a pressure vote to be a strategy for some people. It works sometimes but not all the times. jrkirby's "case" really is not something of content to be honest. I assumed that it was pressure vote to get some discussions going. So that is what I said. As for the second sentence, his "case" is really fucking bullshit, so there are two possibilities. Either he is joking around or he suck at scumhunting.
So you posted it because you wanted to point out that he's either a townie joking or a bad townie? Why would you post the second sentence at all? And then someone else words it better than I can. Bravo. On July 13 2013 10:03 Rainbows wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:01 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 09:52 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 09:47 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 09:26 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 09:21 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 09:12 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:41 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? On July 13 2013 08:20 Rainbows wrote:
[quote]
This post is scummy. Gives a reason for jkirbys post and then casts doubt on it. U scum? I'd be very interested in hearing your explanation as to why you honestly think this is scummy. It's scummy because it's renouncing jkirbys jokepost while he gave a reason for it. He never explains why this joking around is suspicious just passively finger points. I want to hear elaboration. "It's a pressure vote, but his joking is wierd because he doesn't seem like a joker." Where's the inconsistency? The point is he is finger pointing without actually doing anything like asking a question.I want to hear his response It sounded like you had two points. 1) "It's scummy because it's renouncing jkirbys jokepost while he gave a reason for it." (inconsistency) 2) "He never explains why this joking around is suspicious just passively finger points." (finger pointing) Maybe I wasn't explicit enough. Is this untrue? I assume pressure vote = town move and then he says jkirby is joking which is unlike him = scummy? two separate feels imo. Are you asking me..? Or is that a reason why you thought it was scummy? The reason I thought it scummy. It's hard to say how I thought about it, but then again I post rather sporadically with random thoughts. Finally getting to the part where StiM starts posting about whether or not he was mad. Chromatically seems to be leading this attack. StiM gets tripped up trying to explain whether he was mad or pretending to be mad. None of this comes of making StiM look good. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 12:59 StiMaDDict wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 12:49 Chromatically wrote:This Stim thing doesn't make sense at all. Look at the chain of events: 1) Rainbow pressures Stim 2) Stim posts an angry response 3) Stim claims that his anger was due to formatting 4) Stim claims that he wasn't actually angry, and that he acted like it to get a reaction. 3 and 4 are incompatible. Stim is claiming that he was angry from the formatting, and then lied about his reasoning for doing it later. This doesn't make sense from a town perspective. On July 13 2013 11:55 StiMaDDict wrote:
I did respond quite aggressively and in an angry manner, even though I was not really angry at all. There were 2 purposes: 1) To see if Rainbow would 'flinch' 2) To establish myself to others as capable of defending myself. Conclusion: He didn't flinch and I did clear my name somewhat. I could have counter pressured to get some sort of read from Rainbow, however I didn't, because it IS early in the game and without proving myself as an active town, it would have a less of impact and leave a bad impression of me.
Town wouldn't say "There were 2 purposes" for their anger if they had just made up those purposes now. Town most certainly wouldn't say "I wasn't actually angry" if they were, like Stim is claiming he was now. ##Vote: StimI'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts. Edit: If this is what you came up with, then gg wp. Not really motivating to play anymore really. .... and then he takes his ball and goes home. Color me baffled. Could be town (like I said, he has proven he's willing to vote himself and go on tilt really easily), but definitely could be scum panicking. Moreso, I'm offended by his implication that the onus is on US to keep HIM entertained and willing to play this game. Then Umasi joins the bandwagon: + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 13:06 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:49 StiMaDDict wrote:
I may be biased but I put Chromatically as the most capable scumhunter. In last game, he pretty much had the whole scum team Day1. It goes without saying that I do not Chromatically's alignment as of right now.
@Chromatically Your current scum reads? Looking at it as stim is scum, it feels like he's trying to buddy him up as he has him read as a threat. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:50 StiMaDDict wrote:
Edit: *It goes without saying that I do not know Chromatically's alignment as of right now This reads to me as trying to assuage a concern someone would have with it before someone talked about it. And seriously, why would you even bother doing that? Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 12:59 StiMaDDict wrote:On July 13 2013 12:49 Chromatically wrote:This Stim thing doesn't make sense at all. Look at the chain of events: 1) Rainbow pressures Stim 2) Stim posts an angry response 3) Stim claims that his anger was due to formatting 4) Stim claims that he wasn't actually angry, and that he acted like it to get a reaction. 3 and 4 are incompatible. Stim is claiming that he was angry from the formatting, and then lied about his reasoning for doing it later. This doesn't make sense from a town perspective. On July 13 2013 11:55 StiMaDDict wrote:
I did respond quite aggressively and in an angry manner, even though I was not really angry at all. There were 2 purposes: 1) To see if Rainbow would 'flinch' 2) To establish myself to others as capable of defending myself. Conclusion: He didn't flinch and I did clear my name somewhat. I could have counter pressured to get some sort of read from Rainbow, however I didn't, because it IS early in the game and without proving myself as an active town, it would have a less of impact and leave a bad impression of me.
Town wouldn't say "There were 2 purposes" for their anger if they had just made up those purposes now. Town most certainly wouldn't say "I wasn't actually angry" if they were, like Stim is claiming he was now. ##Vote: StimI'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts. Edit: If this is what you came up with, then gg wp. Not really motivating to play anymore really. It's not motivating to play because you don't have perma town cred? Expect people to think you're scum, or not guaranteed town. Like, why is it gg? If I remember you said Chrom was a solid scumhunter. It's actually up there in this post Don't omgus out of the fucking game, because that is not pro town, not defensible, and a surefire way to be lynched. And if you're town, that's obviously bad, because you're directly hurting town, wasting our time and not scumhunting. If you're scum, that's ALSO an awful idea, because you're just saccing yourself. Basically, rethink this and ignore what chrom has said about you and go contribute as much as you can in a protown way to turn opinions around, not just complain "I don't like people thinking I'm scum" You are now a priority to figure out over Superfluous, although I still am looking at Superfluous. ##UNVOTE##VOTE StiMadDDict The first two 'reasons' reek of confirmation bias, and don't hold any weight for me. It could be construed as a scum Umasi hopping on a surefire bandwagon, but I have no confidence based on his earlier play that this poor play is inconsistent with a Town Umasi. Other valuable thoughts to avoid Quadposting: - I disagree with Superfluous' opinion on policy about No Lynch Day 1's, but the similarities to the Aqua - NN Claim issue is so striking I actually laughed aloud. My gut read was 'he's scum, day 1 lynch is the best play', but now I realize how the people pushing for Aqua's lynch Day 1 felt! - Umasi really rushed to my defense early and often which leaves me with a weird scummy feeling for some reason. Kirby and Chrom were pressuring me, but they weren't firing fastballs. I feel like I explained myself well, but Umasi's intrusion made the whole exchange way more combative than I felt it deserved. Right now, my nightmare is that Umasi flips scum, and people link him to me via these early exchanges, leading to my own mislynch. - Combining these two thoughts, Umasi then votes Superfluous for his 'scummy as crap' Day 1 No Lynch post (which I have explained in bullet point #1 I think is wrong, but not scummy). - People are being too hard on lurkers (especially people who posted at the game start and then disappeared). It's talk that doesn't move the game forward because it's a freaking Friday Night. Umasi's supporting 'evidence' (i.e. he's lurking) on Superfluous is what inspired this bulletpoint, pointed out nicely by hz: + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 09:42 hzflank wrote:I think Jrkirby's and Sponge's opening posts had the same motivation: to get discussion moving. Both have done this and we have multiple discussions taking place. Since then, Sponge did a little coaching. Sponge has come under pressure from multiple people (for his opening post), and has dealt with it while being reasonably open. The only time that he has not been open is by refusing to post the other version of his opening post. Sponge did a little coaching again as he tried to stop Umasi from defending him. So far my read on Sponge has moved very slightly towards town. Since his opening, Jrkirby has attacked Sponge for his opening post, and done nothing else. That's fine because it is early and Jrkirby is pushing to get a reaction from someone. This is not scummy to me, null read. Umasi has defended Hurricane, which cannot be viewed as scummy at this point. Umasi has attacked Superfluous. I would say that this attack could be scummy as it is based on nothing, but it could just be to get Super to post more (he only has one post). Umasi then repeats that he thinks Super's post is scummy and votes for him. The problem I have with this is that Umasi claims Super's only post was scummy, when I do not think that it was. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:33 Superfluous wrote:
While I agree that we should lynch someone if they are super scummy, I'd like to point out that voting for no lynch is an option. Assuming I'm interpreting the rules/setup right, mafia only has 1 kp so there's no immediate motive for lynching such as reducing kp. It may be a stronger play to not lynch and hope that cop(if there is one) gets a turn to check before lynch. It is a risk though because I believe we are not guaranteed to have a cop. Just an idea I wanted to throw out and get your guys' thoughts on. If Umasi was looking for a reaction then I do not understand why he posted: Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:59 Umasi wrote:
Where the hell are you. You popped in, gave a single post, that I think is scummy as crap, still haven't show back up. Pretty confusing, because the post you gave was irrelevant. How was Super's post scummy as crap? I do not think that Umasi is looking for scum, and if he is not just fishing for Super to respond then I think that Umasi is just looking for a neutral place to put his early vote. Unlike Jrkirby's, Umasi's vote is not a troll vote. I have a slight scum read on Umasi. On July 13 2013 10:56 Umasi wrote:
He came in, emphasized his newness to the game, and it felt like he was giving excuses for not posting, not reasons.
(I realize that they're extremely similar, but I think it's a matter of tone)
the timing he came in at (right when we brought up lurkers) to be like "I'm trying not to lurk"
is just
kind of......weird?
I think it's out of place and scummy. Unlike hz, however, I think these are just bad reads and bad play. Could be scum, of course, but it could equally likely be town. Still some good content, on my radar, and I'm glad hz pointed it out. Chromatically chimes in later with a post on Superfluous saying he has tried to not 'rock the boat' (which is exactly what he did with the No Lynch position he took): + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 10:59 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:49 StiMaDDict wrote:
I may be biased but I put Chromatically as the most capable scumhunter. In last game, he pretty much had the whole scum team Day1. It goes without saying that I do not Chromatically's alignment as of right now.
@Chromatically Your current scum reads? Superfluous looks really bad, he's been apologetic in his posts (not trying to rock the boat) and has only said what others have already said. It looks like he's trying hard to find anything to post about because he wants to look active. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:05 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 09:55 Umasi wrote:
Superfluous, do you have any current scum reads? At the moment no, as I said I was gone for a couple hours then came back and just skimmed through the thread . I mean to go through it again in more detail once I'm finished defending myself or w/e. Two things are on my mind though. One is that I think you are town (not just to suck up to you b/c you are pressuring me). Reasons being that in my personal experience those who are most aggressive are generally town, and also that this is a semi-noob game so I'm unsure if a mafia would have the confidence to go out and control the game/ put pressure on early on. Another thing is that I dont think I've seen much (if anything) from Cloud 9. He may be in same situation as me and I'll give him Benefit of the doubt though. It's extremely odd that he specifically points out Cloud-9 as opposed to any of the other players who haven't posted. This shows pretty clearly that he's not trying at all to find scum, he doesn't even know who hasn't posted. Also looking at Kirby. Lurkers be lurking. Yet more Superfluous pressure from Umasi.... the tunnel is on?: + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 11:02 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:58 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 10:56 Umasi wrote:
He came in, emphasized his newness to the game, and it felt like he was giving excuses for not posting, not reasons.
(I realize that they're extremely similar, but I think it's a matter of tone)
the timing he came in at (right when we brought up lurkers) to be like "I'm trying not to lurk"
is just
kind of......weird?
I think it's out of place and scummy. He said he couldn't be in here at the beginning before the game started, right? No real reason to have suspicion on the lurkers yet, just note that they're lurking. The difference here, is that he's ...... like hard to articulate. He is lurking, and pops in to post a comment at such a WEIRD time like, immediately when the conversation mentions lurkers compared to otherwise contributing thoughts. I think Super is the best choice atm, but I'm by no means positive. Just hit this post by Superfluous that set off real scumbells for me: + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 12:24 Superfluous wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:59 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 10:49 StiMaDDict wrote:
I may be biased but I put Chromatically as the most capable scumhunter. In last game, he pretty much had the whole scum team Day1. It goes without saying that I do not Chromatically's alignment as of right now.
@Chromatically Your current scum reads? Superfluous looks really bad, he's been apologetic in his posts (not trying to rock the boat) and has only said what others have already said. It looks like he's trying hard to find anything to post about because he wants to look active. On July 13 2013 10:05 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 09:55 Umasi wrote:
Superfluous, do you have any current scum reads? At the moment no, as I said I was gone for a couple hours then came back and just skimmed through the thread . I mean to go through it again in more detail once I'm finished defending myself or w/e. Two things are on my mind though. One is that I think you are town (not just to suck up to you b/c you are pressuring me). Reasons being that in my personal experience those who are most aggressive are generally town, and also that this is a semi-noob game so I'm unsure if a mafia would have the confidence to go out and control the game/ put pressure on early on. Another thing is that I dont think I've seen much (if anything) from Cloud 9. He may be in same situation as me and I'll give him Benefit of the doubt though. It's extremely odd that he specifically points out Cloud-9 as opposed to any of the other players who haven't posted. This shows pretty clearly that he's not trying at all to find scum, he doesn't even know who hasn't posted. Also looking at Kirby. Lurkers be lurking. As I said I just skimmed over after returning. Cloud 9 was a name I didn't see when comparing the posts I saw to the player list, so I pointed it out. And I have been trying to get something to talk about other than what seem to be mini discussions between certain people. I also don't get why you're attacking me saying "I'm not trying to find scum". In my own post I said that I was going to look it over again and get reads, obviously meaning that I hadn't looked that hard for scum yet. Right now my biggest scum read is HZflank, because I still think Umasi is doing mostly pro town moves yet hz says its scummy. If it pushes to me actually being lynched I think that I'd still feel this way. He also had an early post or two that distracted somewhat from the discussion, which I'm always suspicious of. I'll give nightcat benefit of the doubt. It's a bit weird he showed up once his name came up but eh. I realize thats not really a great reason but seems like we're in semi-similar situations. Xzavier I'm more suspicious of, he didnt have many posts then in his first one he shows up saying he'll consider lynching me. It's really scummy play to lurk then show up ready to lynch imo. I completely disagree with many significant points on this post (thinking Xzavier's post is scummy, finding one lurker scummier than the other, deciding Umasi is town because he's tunneling someone). It almost seems like he's OMGUS'ing hz because of the pressure on Umasi? Seems like a viable scumbuddy tactic: Call out in the QT for someone to defend you so you don't have to get into a shitfight yourself. @Chrom: Can you explain what this post means? On July 13 2013 13:23 Chromatically wrote:
If everyone who just randomly popped out to soft call me sum could actually give their opinions on the situation, that'd be great. I also have a nitpick with this post: On July 13 2013 14:04 Chromatically wrote:
Yes, we'll technically never be able to totally disprove the possibility that Stim is town. It's just far less likely. Look at what Stim has done.
Lie about his anger
Town motivation: none
Scum motivation: screwed up the explanation because the anger was faked in the first place
Martyr
Town motivation: none, far more likely that he just explains
Scum motivation: knows he can't explain, so he acts emotional to get people to switch I feel like the anger was definitely real, and StiM was trying play play Mr. Cool Cat by claiming that he was really in control the whole time, and just pretended to be angry. Still not clear what that motivation could have been, but the above 2x2 leaves out some key points and I feel you're making a bit more assumptions that you usually do... Ok this is a long one and hurricane makes a few incorrect leaps in logic. First in NMM XLII yes stim self voted, but day 3 under zero pressure. He was under alot of pressure here when he self voted. He was under pressure. He was on tilt. He had just devoted his whole game to tunneling LoneMeow who flipped Town. Then your bolded first real revelation, unless you are in scum qt you dont know who or what is said in scum qt so trying to saythey wouldnt let him do something is just wrong, first scum game for me we had a modkill lurker and a regular lurker so there wasnt anyone to discuss things with. I'm not going to assume the scum are sitting quietly in the library at the start of a game. Maybe you can because you have that experience, but I always try to assume I'm facing a competent opponent. Also why defend stim? Why not let him defend himself like you advocate? Once I had a town read on him, I thought he was dangerously close to just ragequitting the game which would leave town one man down. But that isn't the reason I defended him. In fact, I was actually still pretty mad at him. But leaving my feelings aside, I thought he was town. And town doesn't want to lynch town, no matter how bad they are (despite what Gotard says).On July 13 2013 16:29 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 16:02 Umasi wrote:
Alright, here, hurricane. Who do you think is worth voting at this time?
From your post, I got the gist that it'd be Superfluous or me. Is that correct? I'm still a bit mad at StiM for his post implying that it was our job to keep him entertained. I'm going to give myself some time to cool off on that, because I don't appreciate people quitting on my team (if he is in fact town). This is a time investment for everybody, and it's damn selfish of him to pack up his ball and go home after really light pressure. Townville: Kirby pressured me appropriately after my opener. I like that. He also seems to have the same attitude as me regarding the quick StiMwagon: On July 13 2013 13:31 jrkirby wrote:
2 votes land on a guy is quick succession, I'd be stupid if I weren't at least a BIT suspicious. As far as I can tell, stim is just acting like a bit of an idiot, is flustered, and frustrated. Doesn't seem like scumtell to me. You're free to have your vote, and I don't have a solid scumread on either of you, but I will be looking a bit more closely at your filters. hz is aggressively posting reads and seems to emulate my thoughts on the early Superfluous post: On July 13 2013 09:42 hzflank wrote:I think Jrkirby's and Sponge's opening posts had the same motivation: to get discussion moving. Both have done this and we have multiple discussions taking place. Since then, Sponge did a little coaching. Sponge has come under pressure from multiple people (for his opening post), and has dealt with it while being reasonably open. The only time that he has not been open is by refusing to post the other version of his opening post. Sponge did a little coaching again as he tried to stop Umasi from defending him. So far my read on Sponge has moved very slightly towards town. Since his opening, Jrkirby has attacked Sponge for his opening post, and done nothing else. That's fine because it is early and Jrkirby is pushing to get a reaction from someone. This is not scummy to me, null read. Umasi has defended Hurricane, which cannot be viewed as scummy at this point. Umasi has attacked Superfluous. I would say that this attack could be scummy as it is based on nothing, but it could just be to get Super to post more (he only has one post). Umasi then repeats that he thinks Super's post is scummy and votes for him. The problem I have with this is that Umasi claims Super's only post was scummy, when I do not think that it was. On July 13 2013 08:33 Superfluous wrote:
While I agree that we should lynch someone if they are super scummy, I'd like to point out that voting for no lynch is an option. Assuming I'm interpreting the rules/setup right, mafia only has 1 kp so there's no immediate motive for lynching such as reducing kp. It may be a stronger play to not lynch and hope that cop(if there is one) gets a turn to check before lynch. It is a risk though because I believe we are not guaranteed to have a cop. Just an idea I wanted to throw out and get your guys' thoughts on. If Umasi was looking for a reaction then I do not understand why he posted: On July 13 2013 08:59 Umasi wrote:
Where the hell are you. You popped in, gave a single post, that I think is scummy as crap, still haven't show back up. Pretty confusing, because the post you gave was irrelevant. How was Super's post scummy as crap? I do not think that Umasi is looking for scum, and if he is not just fishing for Super to respond then I think that Umasi is just looking for a neutral place to put his early vote. Unlike Jrkirby's, Umasi's vote is not a troll vote. I have a slight scum read on Umasi. Xzavier posted some decent thoughts (although he really didn't go out on any limbs): On July 13 2013 11:19 Xzavier wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Superfluous wrote:
While I agree that we should lynch someone if they are super scummy, I'd like to point out that voting for no lynch is an option. Assuming I'm interpreting the rules/setup right, mafia only has 1 kp so there's no immediate motive for lynching such as reducing kp. It may be a stronger play to not lynch and hope that cop(if there is one) gets a turn to check before lynch. It is a risk though because I believe we are not guaranteed to have a cop. Just an idea I wanted to throw out and get your guys' thoughts on. i know usami has touched on this, but i see voting for No-lynch is like sacrificing a townie or playing russian roullet for zero prize money. its just basically saying "i want to start this game a townie down" it seems silly to me, if somebody comes and gives me an ungodly reason for no-lynching ill hear it. but i see it as silly. Also from playing with usami before, hes a super fucking hyper aggressive person who needs like a single post to tunnel somebody for a full day, that can be bad. we need to keep our eyes open and looking at multiple people. As i learned my first game, a tunnel vision day1 can lead to a mislynch, or in this gametype, a no-lynch. Its far better to lynch scum, and thats what we should try to do. Even day1 we lynch either a lurker or our top scumread, if nobody has any strong scumreads, lynching the scummiest lurker is the best townplay day1. (it yields the highest chance of killing scum while creating the best pro-town enviroment) with that im also shocked of how active stim-addict is being. its nice to see a usual lurker picking it up leaving less for the scum to hide behind :D again, even Superfluous is at the top of my scumdar, he isnt high enough to deserve a vote yet. I want to lynch a lurker or superfluous depending on how he reacts to our posts and the events of the day. if the rest of it goes uneventful/no major scumslips i want to fuck up a lurker as i believe that to be the best pro-town action. Rainbows is active and is claiming credit for the StiM wagon. If StiM is town, as I suspect, I don't think scum would be claiming lead on an eventual green flip: On July 13 2013 15:43 Rainbows wrote:
Sponge, I started the whole Stim thing. Chrom just questioned both of us then pooped all over him with it :p Planet Neutral:I've found confusing material on Chrom that some may deem scummy (misrepresenting facts, leaping to conclusions, overblowing alignment-neutral mistakes). However, he also did his usual early game Poke'n'Prod, getting people to clarify their random claims that might otherwise have gone unchecked (very town). Umasi is incredibly active, and hunting. The logic leaps, confirmation bias, and clumsy attacks aren't really helping the town, however (other than to just provide really obvious pressure). If there was a shade between Green and Black, I'd use it because I think the three options for Umasi are 'Bad Town' 'Good Scum' and 'Good Town That I Just Have Trouble Reading For Whatever Reason'. Scum Central:Superfluous has a lot of ground to make up. I don't like people attacking him for his bad policy, but at the end of the day, that's not the only thing going against him. I really disagree with his reads, and that has to account for something: On July 13 2013 12:24 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 10:59 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 10:49 StiMaDDict wrote:
I may be biased but I put Chromatically as the most capable scumhunter. In last game, he pretty much had the whole scum team Day1. It goes without saying that I do not Chromatically's alignment as of right now.
@Chromatically Your current scum reads? Superfluous looks really bad, he's been apologetic in his posts (not trying to rock the boat) and has only said what others have already said. It looks like he's trying hard to find anything to post about because he wants to look active. On July 13 2013 10:05 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 09:55 Umasi wrote:
Superfluous, do you have any current scum reads? At the moment no, as I said I was gone for a couple hours then came back and just skimmed through the thread . I mean to go through it again in more detail once I'm finished defending myself or w/e. Two things are on my mind though. One is that I think you are town (not just to suck up to you b/c you are pressuring me). Reasons being that in my personal experience those who are most aggressive are generally town, and also that this is a semi-noob game so I'm unsure if a mafia would have the confidence to go out and control the game/ put pressure on early on. Another thing is that I dont think I've seen much (if anything) from Cloud 9. He may be in same situation as me and I'll give him Benefit of the doubt though. It's extremely odd that he specifically points out Cloud-9 as opposed to any of the other players who haven't posted. This shows pretty clearly that he's not trying at all to find scum, he doesn't even know who hasn't posted. Also looking at Kirby. Lurkers be lurking. As I said I just skimmed over after returning. Cloud 9 was a name I didn't see when comparing the posts I saw to the player list, so I pointed it out. And I have been trying to get something to talk about other than what seem to be mini discussions between certain people. I also don't get why you're attacking me saying "I'm not trying to find scum". In my own post I said that I was going to look it over again and get reads, obviously meaning that I hadn't looked that hard for scum yet. Right now my biggest scum read is HZflank, because I still think Umasi is doing mostly pro town moves yet hz says its scummy. If it pushes to me actually being lynched I think that I'd still feel this way. He also had an early post or two that distracted somewhat from the discussion, which I'm always suspicious of. I'll give nightcat benefit of the doubt. It's a bit weird he showed up once his name came up but eh. I realize thats not really a great reason but seems like we're in semi-similar situations. Xzavier I'm more suspicious of, he didnt have many posts then in his first one he shows up saying he'll consider lynching me. It's really scummy play to lurk then show up ready to lynch imo. So the only reason you have super as scum is because you really dont like his reads? Check the timestamp. It was very early in the game. When I have vastly disparate reads than someone else that early, it sets of warning bells for me. I thought this was worth noting, yes. On July 15 2013 07:24 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
@ Umasi
@ Rainbows
We three control this lynch. I think everyone else is entrenched (via either conviction or inactivity). If you agree, we need to establish some things between the three of us.
First, do we all agree that both of the current wagons are acceptable lynch candidates? The start, also notice "current wagons" recruiting town to control these 2 wagons. At this point, we were closing in on the deadline. (The admin later moved the deadline back a couple hours which gave us more time than we thought.) The town had agreed we needed to ensure a lynch, and no one had a majority yet. I reached out to both sides of the aisle, and pulled my towniest mobile read from the Super wagon, and the towniest mobile read from the Kirby wagon. If the goal is to ensure the lynch with time winding down, it doesn't make sense to try to gather votes for a third party so close to the deadline. That's not to say I didn't like both wagons; I thought both were scum. On July 15 2013 07:42 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
To the rest of y'all, is there anyone else that is okay with lynching either target tonight? I know you may lean one way or another, but to avoid mafia deadline shenanigans that may lead to a No Lynch (or mislynch) day, this would work better with one more person. More recruiting but you have to be ok with these 2 wagons. On July 15 2013 08:31 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
DOUBLE SECRET TRIBUNAL MEETING
Attn: If you are not part of the Incredible Tribunal For Make Great Benefit Lynching Daily, you must stop reading this post now and cover your eyes.
Alright, now that all the legit folks are in here, I think we've gotten some useful information. We've confirmed that we control 4 mobile votes today (this may change in the future). Sponge, Umasi, Rainbows, Nightcat.
In addition, we have two semi-mobile votes in Chromatically (probably) and hzflank (maybe probably), both unconfirmed however. We could go after the scummiest Other. The more I think about Rainbow's 'town-town' claim, the more it seems like a possibility. I'm still leaning Super as scummiest, but we can talk about that after I get thoughts on the following play:
We could totally drop Gotard or Koshi tonight if we wanted.
Koshi is in the 'too scum to be scum' category for me right now. Gonna dive his filter. Gotard is gotard. For right now, I want tribunal thoughts on this play. So this is where you say you are ok with gotard, but you offer no case at all. After this you say ok we will keep the wagons the same, and just read other peoples cases without makeing your own. It was close to the deadline. There wasn't a lot of time to post cases. I floated the idea to see if other people thought Gotard was scummy enough to ninja-lynch, and the response I got seemed to be 'yes, he's scummy, but no let's stick with the wagons'. So I dropped it. On July 16 2013 01:53 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 15 2013 23:46 Nightcat99 wrote:
I just woke up but i have a question i been thinking about.
Regardless that there is a mislynch, do you think the scum will kill one of the tribunal tonight to ensure that theres less voting power tonight, and if none of them die tonight does that make a the tribunal suspicious? For the record, the Tribunal is not a persistent entity. It was formed based on the flexible votes for the Day. Tomorrow, if it is necessary, it will be composed of an entirely new set of people (which may or may not include me). The group is valuable because it has vote mobility. It was necessary because Town needed to ensure a lynch. It wont be necessary, it wasnt necessary. The only time we need to be afraid of vote switches for a no lynch is if there are a majority on one person who is scum and a second scum is on the same wagon, and the second scum jumps off for a mislynch, well guess what we now have 2 almost confirmed scum to lynch at that point. Only time this is really dangerous is if we are at yolo. Scum arent going to make a mislynch on someone not scum, and town better not be stupid enough to let a mislynch through. What you did was recruit people who you made sure were ok with only the current wagons and made sure no one got off. What you did was incredibly scummy here and I dont know why I am the only one who really sees what happened. I explained why I thought the Tribunal was a good play: It ensured a lynch (and took the lynch power out of mafia hands). It also gave us some valuable reads on the members and Nightcat for the Town to analyze. This accusation reeks of Captain Hindsight, and no one echoed your opinion in the heat of the moment. On July 16 2013 07:12 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 16 2013 07:03 Xzavier wrote:i remember asking people to check the Tribunal after it was just the three of them, what i mostly wanted to know was who tried to join them, nobody came out and directly said as such, but when the list of votes they controlled came out somebody knew was on the list: Nightcat, a hardcore lurker at the time. now he was not invited to join this team, i dont recall him asking to either, i just remember him following the wishes of it.(However indirectly as it may be) This blinks scummy on my scumdar. On July 15 2013 08:19 Nightcat99 wrote:can you make a case defending why you would not vote for JrKirby at this time?
Can you tell me why you think Superfluous is the better lynch target? no i cannot make a case to not vote for jrkirby because i stated that i want to make sure to have 1 person lynch, when i came back it seem super was the more likely target but since you guys disagree. ##UNVOTE ##VOTE JRKIRBY being given the option of switching his vote for a simple reason of "since you guys disagree" and not making a case or updating any reads is bad, because its a super easy for scum to hide without drawing any attention to himself. his entire reason for voting is "the person whos more likely to be lynched" thats a roundabout way of describing a scums voting pattern. they want to blend in and not stick out. So throwing his vote early and the person more likely to be lynched is a great way to lurk successfully.
My scumdar says Scum on nightcat right now______ now im happy with how hurricane reacted to me saying keep your circle small and that further solidifies my stupidly massive town read on him(sponge) (scum would want to try to control as many votes as possible, they would already control the "holes" in there town circle) so the people saying that one of the three is scum, its not him: The points brought up against rainbow has totally shattered the confidence of my town read on him, his actions are nonsensical. I think that Usami is town still as he has played a far more pro-town game and has cut out almost all of his spam (from games iv previously played with him) while i know meta is bad to use for a case in newbie games, but i feel like a scum wouldnt try so hard to improve his town play as they would replicate it. This is another reason for my Umasi read after all of that. if we are assuming scum tried to get one player onto the "tribunal" they were either succesful and got Rainbows on it, or used it as an excuse for nightcat to sheep his vote. Good analysis, but I don't think Scum tried to get one of their own onto the Tribunal. That would only make sense if it were a Scum-Town lynch. I'm leaning toward thinking Super was Town, which makes yesterday a Town-Town lynch. Why would scum care how we shuffled our votes on the titanic? They're just happy a lynch is happening. To me, apathy yesterday would be a much stronger correlation with scumminess (a point that can be taken in tandem with your analysis). So now you are saying it was town town lynch? What changed your mind on super? The ease of which we could throw votes around was a big part of it. If it were town-scum, I would have expected more backlash from someone (scumbuddy) when we piled votes onto one of the candidates with time running down. Also, if you think Nightcat is scum, that supports the town-town lynch theory. There are other reasons, but I went over them already in my post analyzing the consequences of the Super wagon if he were scum. On July 17 2013 02:17 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Running with that, if Super is scum, the next logical avenue to chase down is the Kirby lynch. If Superfluous is scum, then either he was bussed, or there were scum entrenched on the Kirby wagon. StiM/Onegu, Chromatically, and Gotard were the three entrenched votes. I don't think Onegu/StiM or Chromatically are scum (and Chrom offered that his vote was semi-mobile). But it's hard to believe that only one scum (Gotard, in this case) was on a wagon to save their team. So I guess a Day 1 bus is possible.
Chasing down the Bus Super avenue, that'd tag HZ as the only likely scum on that wagon (as the guy who started the wagon). Now, hz is a phenomenal mafia player, but that's a hell of a play. He was ready to paint his face and go to war to get Super lynched. Everyone has to make that call on their own. I don't think scum would bus like that, and most of the thread thinks hz is town.
Neither of these scenarios seem as likely as a town/town wagon with an arbitrary distribution of scumvotes to me. : On July 16 2013 09:55 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Onegu, I'm repeating this now so it will hopefully sink in by the time the lynch comes around.
I believe it is currently the Mafia's plan to take your case and parlay it into a mislynch. Once I refute your case, please don't be overwhelmed by confirmation bias of random people coming out of the woodwork agreeing with you. They are likely scum. Already said it but this post is incredibly scummy. PEOPLE OF THE THREAD WHEN ONEGUS CASE IS SOLID AND PEOPLE START TO AGREE THEY ARE SCUM VOTE THEM NOT ME! If you think that this is a scummy play, that's your opinion. It's not, and you'll find that out in endgame, I guess. Hint: Your case isn't solid. (And I'm not the only one who thinks so.) It's confirmation bias at its most dangerous.On July 16 2013 10:10 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 16 2013 09:58 hzflank wrote:
So you suddenly think I am scum because I caught your slip? If you think that's a slip, I guess that's your right. I thought you were a better player, so the more reasonable explanation to me at this point is that you're the SK (omg you slipped because you knew it was SK and not vig after the kill) or scum than town. Although it looks like Onegu is going to be in full tunnel mode despite the obvious flaws in his train-of-thought during the downtime. On July 15 2013 10:13 Onegu wrote:Sorry hope you guus dont mind if I post as I go, some of it may have been addressed already but I want to give my take like it just happend. I would have been all over the stim lynch. I really want to lynch all liars. Then hurricane says Immediately, the first thing I thought of was that there is no way in hell the scum QT would let him continue ranting and raving like this. They would have told him immediately to chill out and claim he was joking too, or something. Bolding because this is the first real revelation I've had on this case. There is no way you can know this my first game sometimes I would ask a question and not get a reponse for hours, so there is no way you should ever make this assumption. It was unique analysis that I was bringing to the table. I would assume scum would be very active in the early stages of the game, laying plans and setting out to plot our demise. I don't think it's unreasonable to speculate in this manner, especially considering Onegu can confirm that I was right in my read (StiM / Onegu is not scum). At the least it's independent analysis and a null read. I'm actually pretty proud of that point. On July 15 2013 11:04 Onegu wrote:On July 14 2013 03:21 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 17:01 Umasi wrote:
why is me thinking he's slightly towny a big deal though? I wouldn't say it's a big deal. I just wanted to see what evidence you had gathered to make your read, because it's useful for the town if you can help us identify Chrom as town. @Chrom: + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 19:17 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +@Chrom: Can you explain what this post means? On July 13 2013 13:23 Chromatically wrote:
If everyone who just randomly popped out to soft call me sum could actually give their opinions on the situation, that'd be great. I also have a nitpick with this post: On July 13 2013 14:04 Chromatically wrote:
Yes, we'll technically never be able to totally disprove the possibility that Stim is town. It's just far less likely. Look at what Stim has done.
Lie about his anger
Town motivation: none
Scum motivation: screwed up the explanation because the anger was faked in the first place
Martyr
Town motivation: none, far more likely that he just explains
Scum motivation: knows he can't explain, so he acts emotional to get people to switch I feel like the anger was definitely real, and StiM was trying play play Mr. Cool Cat by claiming that he was really in control the whole time, and just pretended to be angry. Still not clear what that motivation could have been, but the above 2x2 leaves out some key points and I feel you're making a bit more assumptions that you usually do... Several people suddenly posted to tell Stim that I could be scum, and then didn't actually give an opinion on Stim. It was really wierd. You've brought up this same idea a few times about Stim trying to "act cool", but I don't see any particular reason to believe it. Why do you? As I've said before, there will always be a possibility of a town explanation, it's just less likely. If Stim is town, he'll return with a clear explanation. If you want to bring up meta, town should have lynched Stim in XLII. He could have easily been scum, and I said as much in the obs. A more convincing point is that Stim never reacted this way to pressure in XLIII, even though several votes were thrown on him over the course (if I remember). Hypothetical: If Stim doesn't return, what will you do? If Stim hadn't have returned, I'd probably drop the issue entirely and focus my efforts elsewhere, anticipating a /replacement or mod action. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 19:28 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 16:29 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 16:02 Umasi wrote:
Alright, here, hurricane. Who do you think is worth voting at this time?
From your post, I got the gist that it'd be Superfluous or me. Is that correct? I'm still a bit mad at StiM for his post implying that it was our job to keep him entertained. I'm going to give myself some time to cool off on that, because I don't appreciate people quitting on my team (if he is in fact town). This is a time investment for everybody, and it's damn selfish of him to pack up his ball and go home after really light pressure. Townville: Kirby pressured me appropriately after my opener. I like that. He also seems to have the same attitude as me regarding the quick StiMwagon: On July 13 2013 13:31 jrkirby wrote:
2 votes land on a guy is quick succession, I'd be stupid if I weren't at least a BIT suspicious. As far as I can tell, stim is just acting like a bit of an idiot, is flustered, and frustrated. Doesn't seem like scumtell to me. You're free to have your vote, and I don't have a solid scumread on either of you, but I will be looking a bit more closely at your filters. hz is aggressively posting reads and seems to emulate my thoughts on the early Superfluous post: On July 13 2013 09:42 hzflank wrote:I think Jrkirby's and Sponge's opening posts had the same motivation: to get discussion moving. Both have done this and we have multiple discussions taking place. Since then, Sponge did a little coaching. Sponge has come under pressure from multiple people (for his opening post), and has dealt with it while being reasonably open. The only time that he has not been open is by refusing to post the other version of his opening post. Sponge did a little coaching again as he tried to stop Umasi from defending him. So far my read on Sponge has moved very slightly towards town. Since his opening, Jrkirby has attacked Sponge for his opening post, and done nothing else. That's fine because it is early and Jrkirby is pushing to get a reaction from someone. This is not scummy to me, null read. Umasi has defended Hurricane, which cannot be viewed as scummy at this point. Umasi has attacked Superfluous. I would say that this attack could be scummy as it is based on nothing, but it could just be to get Super to post more (he only has one post). Umasi then repeats that he thinks Super's post is scummy and votes for him. The problem I have with this is that Umasi claims Super's only post was scummy, when I do not think that it was. On July 13 2013 08:33 Superfluous wrote:
While I agree that we should lynch someone if they are super scummy, I'd like to point out that voting for no lynch is an option. Assuming I'm interpreting the rules/setup right, mafia only has 1 kp so there's no immediate motive for lynching such as reducing kp. It may be a stronger play to not lynch and hope that cop(if there is one) gets a turn to check before lynch. It is a risk though because I believe we are not guaranteed to have a cop. Just an idea I wanted to throw out and get your guys' thoughts on. If Umasi was looking for a reaction then I do not understand why he posted: On July 13 2013 08:59 Umasi wrote:
Where the hell are you. You popped in, gave a single post, that I think is scummy as crap, still haven't show back up. Pretty confusing, because the post you gave was irrelevant. How was Super's post scummy as crap? I do not think that Umasi is looking for scum, and if he is not just fishing for Super to respond then I think that Umasi is just looking for a neutral place to put his early vote. Unlike Jrkirby's, Umasi's vote is not a troll vote. I have a slight scum read on Umasi. Xzavier posted some decent thoughts (although he really didn't go out on any limbs): On July 13 2013 11:19 Xzavier wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Superfluous wrote:
While I agree that we should lynch someone if they are super scummy, I'd like to point out that voting for no lynch is an option. Assuming I'm interpreting the rules/setup right, mafia only has 1 kp so there's no immediate motive for lynching such as reducing kp. It may be a stronger play to not lynch and hope that cop(if there is one) gets a turn to check before lynch. It is a risk though because I believe we are not guaranteed to have a cop. Just an idea I wanted to throw out and get your guys' thoughts on. i know usami has touched on this, but i see voting for No-lynch is like sacrificing a townie or playing russian roullet for zero prize money. its just basically saying "i want to start this game a townie down" it seems silly to me, if somebody comes and gives me an ungodly reason for no-lynching ill hear it. but i see it as silly. Also from playing with usami before, hes a super fucking hyper aggressive person who needs like a single post to tunnel somebody for a full day, that can be bad. we need to keep our eyes open and looking at multiple people. As i learned my first game, a tunnel vision day1 can lead to a mislynch, or in this gametype, a no-lynch. Its far better to lynch scum, and thats what we should try to do. Even day1 we lynch either a lurker or our top scumread, if nobody has any strong scumreads, lynching the scummiest lurker is the best townplay day1. (it yields the highest chance of killing scum while creating the best pro-town enviroment) with that im also shocked of how active stim-addict is being. its nice to see a usual lurker picking it up leaving less for the scum to hide behind :D again, even Superfluous is at the top of my scumdar, he isnt high enough to deserve a vote yet. I want to lynch a lurker or superfluous depending on how he reacts to our posts and the events of the day. if the rest of it goes uneventful/no major scumslips i want to fuck up a lurker as i believe that to be the best pro-town action. Rainbows is active and is claiming credit for the StiM wagon. If StiM is town, as I suspect, I don't think scum would be claiming lead on an eventual green flip: On July 13 2013 15:43 Rainbows wrote:
Sponge, I started the whole Stim thing. Chrom just questioned both of us then pooped all over him with it :p Planet Neutral:I've found confusing material on Chrom that some may deem scummy (misrepresenting facts, leaping to conclusions, overblowing alignment-neutral mistakes). However, he also did his usual early game Poke'n'Prod, getting people to clarify their random claims that might otherwise have gone unchecked (very town). Umasi is incredibly active, and hunting. The logic leaps, confirmation bias, and clumsy attacks aren't really helping the town, however (other than to just provide really obvious pressure). If there was a shade between Green and Black, I'd use it because I think the three options for Umasi are 'Bad Town' 'Good Scum' and 'Good Town That I Just Have Trouble Reading For Whatever Reason'. Scum Central:Superfluous has a lot of ground to make up. I don't like people attacking him for his bad policy, but at the end of the day, that's not the only thing going against him. I really disagree with his reads, and that has to account for something: On July 13 2013 12:24 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 10:59 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 10:49 StiMaDDict wrote:
I may be biased but I put Chromatically as the most capable scumhunter. In last game, he pretty much had the whole scum team Day1. It goes without saying that I do not Chromatically's alignment as of right now.
@Chromatically Your current scum reads? Superfluous looks really bad, he's been apologetic in his posts (not trying to rock the boat) and has only said what others have already said. It looks like he's trying hard to find anything to post about because he wants to look active. On July 13 2013 10:05 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 09:55 Umasi wrote:
Superfluous, do you have any current scum reads? At the moment no, as I said I was gone for a couple hours then came back and just skimmed through the thread . I mean to go through it again in more detail once I'm finished defending myself or w/e. Two things are on my mind though. One is that I think you are town (not just to suck up to you b/c you are pressuring me). Reasons being that in my personal experience those who are most aggressive are generally town, and also that this is a semi-noob game so I'm unsure if a mafia would have the confidence to go out and control the game/ put pressure on early on. Another thing is that I dont think I've seen much (if anything) from Cloud 9. He may be in same situation as me and I'll give him Benefit of the doubt though. It's extremely odd that he specifically points out Cloud-9 as opposed to any of the other players who haven't posted. This shows pretty clearly that he's not trying at all to find scum, he doesn't even know who hasn't posted. Also looking at Kirby. Lurkers be lurking. As I said I just skimmed over after returning. Cloud 9 was a name I didn't see when comparing the posts I saw to the player list, so I pointed it out. And I have been trying to get something to talk about other than what seem to be mini discussions between certain people. I also don't get why you're attacking me saying "I'm not trying to find scum". In my own post I said that I was going to look it over again and get reads, obviously meaning that I hadn't looked that hard for scum yet. Right now my biggest scum read is HZflank, because I still think Umasi is doing mostly pro town moves yet hz says its scummy. If it pushes to me actually being lynched I think that I'd still feel this way. He also had an early post or two that distracted somewhat from the discussion, which I'm always suspicious of. I'll give nightcat benefit of the doubt. It's a bit weird he showed up once his name came up but eh. I realize thats not really a great reason but seems like we're in semi-similar situations. Xzavier I'm more suspicious of, he didnt have many posts then in his first one he shows up saying he'll consider lynching me. It's really scummy play to lurk then show up ready to lynch imo. These are some wierd-ass wierd reads (formatted in a list, might I add...). You give town reads to a large number of people based on almost nothing? You say that me and Umasi are actively scumhunting, and then say we're null? All followed by a sheep on Super while waiting to commit to Stim. It all feels really odd. Why is xzavier more townie then Umasi/me? Why did you post town reads in the first place? I'm surprised you do not agree with my reads. I shall re-evaluate them. You are Neutral to me for the reasons I mentioned: while you and Umasi are scumhunting (+), I believe you're doing it in an anti-town manner (-). That is: making logical leaps, confirmation bias, poor analysis. Scum can scumhunt too, and that's exactly how I imagine they'd do it. I also don't feel like I'm sheeping Superfluous. I raised some independent analysis regarding him in my earlier post (centering on the fact that our reads are very different, signifying a disconnect from my own POV that is significant enough to be Town-Scum). Are there any other glaring mistakes in particular you'd like to hear my thoughts on? On July 13 2013 19:37 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 15:53 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 15:43 Rainbows wrote:
Sponge, I started the whole Stim thing. Chrom just questioned both of us then pooped all over him with it :p Chrom has made a couple missteps that I would consider 'uncharacteristic'. At the very least, they are poor play I did not expect from him. 1. His enthusiasm to lynch StiM after the blow-up (surely we can all see that it was more likely immature and pissy play from StiM and alignment-independent) contained logical leaks and overblows the importance of whether StiM lied about being mad or not. 2. Saying Superfluous was trying to not 'make waves' when he was the lone voice speaking up for an unpopular policy (Day 1 No Lynch) More importantly, when viewed as a whole, the bolded section above is a big stop sign on my vote to lynch StiM: Why would scum not alert StiM that everyone and their mother knew the jokepost was a joke and let him carry on in this manner? He'd have to be willfully disobeying his team, or (more likely) flying solo. If someone can give me a satisfactory answer to that, I'd feel much better about a StiM lynch. 1) You seem confident that Stim's blowup was alignment independent, can you address my earlier posts about why it's more likely from scum? I think it's pretty hard to overblow the importance of someone lying about their motivation without being able to explain it. You disagree? 2) The apologetic tone is the entire reason why Super looks bad. He's trying not to draw attention to himself and not to incite anyone (scummy). The Nolynch thing is totally non alignment indicative, which you should know. Explain your scumread on Super more. On July 13 2013 12:24 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 10:59 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 10:49 StiMaDDict wrote:
I may be biased but I put Chromatically as the most capable scumhunter. In last game, he pretty much had the whole scum team Day1. It goes without saying that I do not Chromatically's alignment as of right now.
@Chromatically Your current scum reads? Superfluous looks really bad, he's been apologetic in his posts (not trying to rock the boat) and has only said what others have already said. It looks like he's trying hard to find anything to post about because he wants to look active. On July 13 2013 10:05 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 09:55 Umasi wrote:
Superfluous, do you have any current scum reads? At the moment no, as I said I was gone for a couple hours then came back and just skimmed through the thread . I mean to go through it again in more detail once I'm finished defending myself or w/e. Two things are on my mind though. One is that I think you are town (not just to suck up to you b/c you are pressuring me). Reasons being that in my personal experience those who are most aggressive are generally town, and also that this is a semi-noob game so I'm unsure if a mafia would have the confidence to go out and control the game/ put pressure on early on. Another thing is that I dont think I've seen much (if anything) from Cloud 9. He may be in same situation as me and I'll give him Benefit of the doubt though. It's extremely odd that he specifically points out Cloud-9 as opposed to any of the other players who haven't posted. This shows pretty clearly that he's not trying at all to find scum, he doesn't even know who hasn't posted. Also looking at Kirby. Lurkers be lurking. As I said I just skimmed over after returning. Cloud 9 was a name I didn't see when comparing the posts I saw to the player list, so I pointed it out. And I have been trying to get something to talk about other than what seem to be mini discussions between certain people. I also don't get why you're attacking me saying "I'm not trying to find scum". In my own post I said that I was going to look it over again and get reads, obviously meaning that I hadn't looked that hard for scum yet. Right now my biggest scum read is HZflank, because I still think Umasi is doing mostly pro town moves yet hz says its scummy. If it pushes to me actually being lynched I think that I'd still feel this way. He also had an early post or two that distracted somewhat from the discussion, which I'm always suspicious of. I'll give nightcat benefit of the doubt. It's a bit weird he showed up once his name came up but eh. I realize thats not really a great reason but seems like we're in semi-similar situations. Xzavier I'm more suspicious of, he didnt have many posts then in his first one he shows up saying he'll consider lynching me. It's really scummy play to lurk then show up ready to lynch imo. I really don't like that last part where he gives one lurker the FoS, but a second one a free pass in the same post. I don't like that his reads seem diametrically opposed to mine, which implies a significant difference in frame-of-reference. I don't like his case on HZ (which is a case in name only). I don't like that he's suspicious of townies who enter the thread willing to lynch. On July 13 2013 21:48 Chromatically wrote:
Sponge, could you also elaborate on you Umasi read? As I told Umasi late last night when we were the only two in the thread, I love his scumhunting, but I cringe at his methods. He's got a big problem with confirmation bias and attacking his target when he should just be poking, bringing the level of discourse down into the mud too soon. Like I said in the earlier post, I think he's Green-Black: Bad Town, Good Scum, or Good Town That I Just Can't Read. The early game aggression is much preferred to the alternative (lurking), but if he keeps some of these traits up into the late game, I'm worried for town. Moving on: On July 13 2013 21:54 Koshi wrote:I am from Belgium guys, This game started at 12PM and I was tired after a working week. I read the thread once now and my initial (this is without using filters, just reading all the posts) is that H.Sponge build enough town kred to not get lynched day 1 no matter what. I loved his opening post, and I loved his defense on that post. Even if he is scum, he has been very helpful to town, and every town should go and read that opening post. Scum reads are on Umasi and Chroma. Umasi because his entire early posts were just sucking up to H.Sponge, which is just not useful at all, H. Sponge clearly doesn't need to be defended like this. Another thing I dont like about Umasi is him trying to redirect the thread twice for a Superfluous train on a rather useless moment. Superfluous entered the thread with a bad post, but went afk after, which is not a clear scumread. Not enough the get a train going, and make the rest of the day useless. Chroma is currently tunneling so heavily on StiMaDDict. The guy is afk, treat him as an afk bad town till he comes back. It is a good thing to spark some conversation around StiMaDDict, but at this point I feel that Chroma is derailing more than necessarily. It's just tunneling into oblivion. I start filtering now: Reading Chroma his filter I get a serious scum vibe. Post like this: On July 13 2013 11:39 Chromatically wrote:
Also just noticed that Sponge hasn't given a single opinion on anyone all game after saying that he wanted people to judge him on his scumhunting, interesting. This is just being a jack-ass, at least it would be if you say things like this in real life. In mafia it is trying to put suspicion onto somebody without saying anything. I haven't crosschecked this message with the referring Sponge message but it feels dirty. What was your intention while typing this down Chromo? @ Chromo, Do you agree that this is a very suspicious post? And explain to me why it is "interesting" that Sponge likes to have interaction on his scumreads while playing this game? Reading Umasi his filter after the Chroma filter makes me want to lynch one of these 2 guys. Umasi and Chroma are either bromancing it up on the stimaddict lynch, or they are both scum. Here is Umasi his game till now: --> Defend Sponge while pushing lynch on Superfluous. --> Argue with Sponge about Chroma while pusing a lynch on StiMaDDict. I hate Umasi and Chrom as lynch targets for Day 1. Town does not want to lynch guys this active and scumhunting this hard. Regardless of the fact that I think Superfluous is scummier at this point, I'd push for a Lurker lynch over one of either of Umasi or Chrom. ---------------- Current Events: I think StiM's case on Kirby is weak. Lots of fallacies in there. Everything quoted is interpreted single-mindedly as scum, and even the stuff that's pro town is justified as 'this is clearly scum trying to look town'. Please re read this post. He doesnt like someone because they have a different POV. Italso seems like he wants people to be with his scumhunting methods. Early in the game, someone having vastly disparate reads from you is noticeable. I think that's reasonable suspicion. The second part of your concern doesn't really make sense. Maybe you can elaborate. On July 15 2013 14:47 Onegu wrote:On July 15 2013 07:30 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 15 2013 07:26 Rainbows wrote:
Acceptable yes. Im really unsure of who to vote but super seems best imo.
Both might be town. You mentioned that, and that's why this is sort of an unholy alliance. Even though the odds are staggeringly in your favor, I would actually be more inclined to believe they were both scum rather than both town. I feel like I have a decent eye for town-on-town crime, although to be fair, kirby and super haven't been sniping at each other NEARLY enough for my taste. Regardless, this is good news. Now we just need Umasi to confirm he finds both players scummy, and we can decide this lynch. This just seems like you are setting your self up that no matter the flip you dont get heat. I honestly don't know what Onegu is reading. So I'm not allowed to update my reads as people post more content? Onegu is in full confirmation bias mode now. On July 15 2013 14:49 Onegu wrote:On July 15 2013 07:24 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
@ Umasi
@ Rainbows
We three control this lynch. I think everyone else is entrenched (via either conviction or inactivity). If you agree, we need to establish some things between the three of us.
First, do we all agree that both of the current wagons are acceptable lynch candidates? Here you make sure 100% that the wagons stay exacty the same there will be one of these 2 town lynched. Here, you look silly because I tried to orchestrate an off-man lurker lynch late in day 1, proving this point completely false. On July 15 2013 15:57 Onegu wrote:
Scumteam
Hurricane
Koshi
Rainbow/gotard
I am really confidant in my hurricane read btw, he made sure he led the council and could make sure we never got off a town/town bandwagon. Alot of his posts just seem like he wants town cred, unlike last game. I didn't know it was a town/town bandwagon, and at the end actually tried to get a Gotard lynch with the votes we'd accumulated. Read the thread. Also, I've openly refused town cred for posts that I don't think deserved it (first one). On July 15 2013 19:16 Onegu wrote:On July 15 2013 18:50 Gotard wrote:Hi Onegu. Nice to see ya! Chromatically - For me he looks more like a town that mafia. He tends to put himself in a headlights by creating wagons and defending them really strongly with no fear (but sometimes he's tunneling himself like when he was pressuring Stim). In 'The Super Case' he brought good points and made some more room for discussion. Would he make such a strong defense to save his scum buddy? I don't thing so because after Super flipping scum he would be in a big trouble. Pushing lynch isn't scummy if you have good points and your target barely shows and signs of life innocence. On July 15 2013 15:57 Onegu wrote:
Scumteam
Hurricane
Koshi
Rainbow/gotard
I am really confidant in my hurricane read btw, he made sure he led the council and could make sure we never got off a town/town bandwagon. Alot of his posts just seem like he wants town cred, unlike last game. Hurricane ensured lynch that day. Everyone agreed that both of them are super scummy. I think leadership like that is useful when you need majority to lynch. His posts are super pro town in general and leading town like that even in wrong direction isn't scummy to me. Koshi - reading comprehension... I will address him later after reading his filter. I will say this it is hard for me to be objective since I already knew there was a mislynch, but I tried my best, but you are right he made sure there was a lynch, but he made sure to focus on those two and didnt let it drift away, if he is scum he knows it is a town town bandwagon it doesnt matter he ensures a lynch as long as he ensures it on one of them, which is what he did. Again, Onegu hammering the point that I was holding the town hostage on a town/town lynch when in reality, I tried to get a 3rd party lynch going once we had the votes for it. Umasi and StiM actually put the axe to my idea of moving off the two candidates. And as we know... StiM is actually Gotard... First point. It is unreasonable as there is no way you can know or guess what is going on im scum qt unless you are scum. And really you are looking at me to confirm I am town? It's unreasonable to speculate how my enemies are acting? Isn't that the point of the game? Second point. No no its not, if someone has different reads then you when the information is still limited isnt in any way scummy or reason for suspicion. Also I was wrong on the second part, you post a little bit on the "right way to scumhunt" which is null not scummy We disagree about that. I'm pretty confident in my ability to read town, and if someone thinks my top town reads are scum, that gets my attention. Third Point. You might be correct I could be biased here. Fourth Point. No you didnt, you say one time very close to deadline where it would be to dangerous to get 7 vote switchs and risk a mislynch. And you didnt even offer a case on him. Fifth Point. Again you never make a case, and earlier you make sure when you recruit to get people who are currently ok with the 2 wagons so why would they switch. You're just repeating yourself here, but I won't do the same. Answers in green. You dont say simalar sorry, but you do say it will be not as impressive. It just seem like you posts feel like you only wrote one opener that you would post no matter you rolled scum or town. This is massive, unfounded assumption by you. And it is incorrect, as well as illogical. 2. He wasnt under pressure at the time the wagons were set on me and umasi, stim randomly pops in votes him self makeing umasi jump on him ending in a xzavier mislynch. 3. You are willing to assume scum are competent, but town are not. [green] Competence is founded in information and the free exchange thereof. Mafia by definition have 1.) more information and 2.) a way to coordinate that is exclusive to their faction. 4. Depends sometimes town are unhealthy to town. 5. No matter how early if someone thinks different it isnt a scum tell. And apparently thinking so is a scum tell to you? I wanted to start pressuring, and that was a fine place to start. I liked my reasoning, and will continue using it in the future. A lot of these points seem to be you disagreeing with me on game theory which you find scummy. 6. So you admit you didnt try to get a 3rd wagon lynch you just floated a idea close to the deadline that would never go through. No. I tried to see if we could get a ninja-lynch. It was the rest of the people who said it was too many moving parts. At this point you're not even reading my responses with an open mind. You're just looking to justify your scum read. 7. We have talked about enough, not hindsight because you floated the idea to have on D2. Dont know why people didnt speak up D1. 8. Specualate what they are doing sure, speculateing on whats going on in scum qt no. What's the harm in this? Why is this a scum tell to you? 9. Sigh. So you think I am scum because I dont agree with you? I have said multiple times I think you're town. Getting my attention is not the same thing as me thinking someone is full-blown scum. 10. Ok
I feel like Onegu is in full-blown tunnel confirmation bias mode. He will not listen to me anymore, and as such, I am feeling discouraged. If someone else can try to communicate with him at this point, I will not object.
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On July 18 2013 03:23 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 03:17 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
For the record, someone like Alakaslam is exactly who I was trying to draw out by deferring my defense for so long. Meta again, you & Onegu switch places now I don't give a crap about don't use meta it is all I'm remotely good at
You think you're good at using meta? By your logic, if I do ANYTHING differently this game from last game, I am scum. Is this correct?
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On July 18 2013 03:26 Alakaslam wrote:
Ebwop 2 of my posts up
In other words why not Hzflank? He voted you too and was the only other one who then switched his vote, causing me to be solo
His vote on me was a play. He practically had to spell it out for me (by requesting I go back and read a specific page-set with a clear head). He was fake-supporting Onegu's pressure so scum wouldn't feel exposed when they tried to hop on. hz even says that Onegu's case is weak in another post.
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On July 18 2013 03:27 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 03:25 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 18 2013 03:23 Alakaslam wrote:On July 18 2013 03:17 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
For the record, someone like Alakaslam is exactly who I was trying to draw out by deferring my defense for so long. Meta again, you & Onegu switch places now I don't give a crap about don't use meta it is all I'm remotely good at You think you're good at using meta? By your logic, if I do ANYTHING differently this game from last game, I am scum. Is this correct? No. If your entire style and aims are. Which is the case.
I'll play along. What's different this time compared to last time? Quote posts and be specific. I don't care about your 'gut reads' because scum can claim gut reads just as easily as town.
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And there goes the ninja voteswap. Alakaslam is panicking now.
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I'm super duper convinced 'slam is scum. Is anyone else picking up on this?
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On July 18 2013 03:35 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 03:31 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 18 2013 03:27 Alakaslam wrote:On July 18 2013 03:25 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 18 2013 03:23 Alakaslam wrote:On July 18 2013 03:17 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
For the record, someone like Alakaslam is exactly who I was trying to draw out by deferring my defense for so long. Meta again, you & Onegu switch places now I don't give a crap about don't use meta it is all I'm remotely good at You think you're good at using meta? By your logic, if I do ANYTHING differently this game from last game, I am scum. Is this correct? No. If your entire style and aims are. Which is the case. I'll play along. What's different this time compared to last time? Quote posts and be specific. I don't care about your 'gut reads' because scum can claim gut reads just as easily as town. This will take some Time and be a fairly Long post, plus my phone may drop it on me multiple times. Basically you are far more bombastic and willing to cherry pick town mistakes rather than point out town mistakes and build town. People can see your interactions with me for one but I have changed a lot so... I am developing a style now that sux but isn't as bad as when I try to be fully legit. So gimme whole day or is that gist enough?
You don't have a day. If you can't post evidence, you shouldn't have jumped on the wagon. Posting an appeal purely to buy yourself time is scummy to me.
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On July 18 2013 03:54 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:57 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:54 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:42 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? Correct. I would not have posted this particular post as scum. On July 13 2013 08:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:43 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:41 Umasi wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? On July 13 2013 08:20 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:07 StiMaDDict wrote:
I can only look at jrkirby's post as a pressure vote at this point. He didn't seem to be the type to joke around from the pre game though.
This post is scummy. Gives a reason for jkirbys post and then casts doubt on it. U scum? I'd be very interested in hearing your explanation as to why you honestly think this is scummy. I certainly wouldn't post that if I were scum, it is nothing but a good thing for town. Why WOULD he want to post that as scum? to look town. Scum love to spew general pro town thingsvto get ez town cred.. This is correct. In general, these sorts of posts should result in a null read in a veteran game. But Early Day 1, when it's generally assumed nothing interesting is happening, seemed like a good time to get PSA's out of the way for a newbie crowd. The info is valuable, but it should not get me town cred. It's more important to me that there's a town consensus on the actual content of the post, not my alignment. (Plenty of time for that later.) You obviously think that your post was pro town, right? That's why you shouldn't have posted it as scum. But then you say that you shouldn't get town cred from it, indicating that you don't think it's pro town. ? Pro town in a newbie game, yes. Probably wouldn't have posted it in a Veteran game unless I really felt the Day 1 conversation stagnating early. I think all my posts are pro-town. Otherwise, why would I post them? (That should apply to everyone but those with a severe inferiority complex.) see this, and last game you saw that immediately, this game I am not part of the scum team so... Onegu style takes advantage of the fact
What does this mean?
1.) What did I see immediately?
2.) What is 'Onegu style'
3.) What is it that 'Onegu style' takes advantage of?
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Right now, I'm hoping Super is just Real-Life inactive and not intentionally lurking. We could use a counter-triple-kill (lynch scum, modkill scum, SK shoots scum). A boy can dream...
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EBWOP: Although at this point, if he does jump in with a random vote, he's lynch-bait for Day 3 anyway. Super may just be hosed.
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@Alakaslam
What do you think of Superfluous?
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On July 18 2013 04:18 Xzavier wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 04:02 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Right now, I'm hoping Super is just Real-Life inactive and not intentionally lurking. We could use a counter-triple-kill (lynch scum, modkill scum, SK shoots scum). A boy can dream... its like he just did his job of getting suspicion off him and removing himself from the lynch candidates then goes inactive, like it doesn't matter who gets lynched as long as it isnt him. Thats pretty scummy, suppose he pops in the last few hours, which honestly to me is at any point between now and the lynch, the closer to the lynch the worse. IMO this looks like a good way to wait until a bandwagon has formed on not him, then show up when its too late to form another candidate. and thats scummy as hell to me. and as far from pro-town you can get short of posting 100% spam. hes already posted so all he has to do is throw a last minute vote on the bandwagon, and then he is magically forgotten about again. and watch, now that he is being talked about he is in a "damned if you do, damned if you dont" because hes lurked for too long, and so he would appear once hes starting to be talked about again/deadline. Whatever he does at this point looks scummy, which is frustrating because unless he gets a rock solid case on somebody he is my top scumread. He is my lynch candidate. However gotard does look scummy, i see him as a serious lynch candidate, but who the fuck is running against him to die? Nobody? isnt that strange in and of itself. When there are mutliple scummy people in the game and only one of them is getting votes? shouldnt scum buddies be atleast SEMI-attempting to defend him? It seems to me like scum are okay with this lynch, and that is worrysome. there was no resistance to his case (basically) and i cant imagine people full-bussing when all they would have to do is ask/answer harmless questions and make pro-town moves to do it.
i think lynching super helps us more, do you want super at LYLO? atleast gotard you can get reads off of because he posts. Having a hardcore lurker at LYLO is a horrible nightmare.
The bolded is exactly what I thought at one point. But there is an explanation: What if his scumbuddies are lurking. If Super is scum and legit afk, he obviously won't defend Gotard. Then it just takes one independently-acting scummer to see the writing on the wall and Bus gotard, or otherwise just blend in.
I love a Super lynch tonight if he posts or votes, but I don't like a Super lynch if he's going to get /replaced (kicked for inactivity).
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On July 18 2013 04:22 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 07:22 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 15 2013 07:19 hzflank wrote:On July 15 2013 06:47 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 15 2013 05:56 hzflank wrote:On July 15 2013 05:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
I'd be on board for a gotard hammer if someone can make a good case that mafia are on this wagon pushing for a mislynch. You don't think that Mafia are on that wagon? From my position you are on the scummy wagon.I am reading Gotard again. I did not think that the cases against him were strong, but on the other hand Gotard's filter after 24 hours was horrible. The problem that I have with reading his more recent posts is that I am struggling to separate an alignment read from a personality read. I think Gotard could very well be scum, but I still think that Super is more likely. If you look at Chrom's defense of Super, almost every point was that it was bad play rather than scum play. When you make that many consecutive defenses and call them all bad play then alarm bells should be ringing. Elaborate on this if you can, hz. Gotard is scummy. Stim is still at least in the top 5 of my scum list. Nightcat is a lurker who just randomly added his vote. Chrom is neutral at best. At best that wagon has 2 scummy, 2 neutral and 2 townie players on it. The other wagon has Umasi, who I think is townie. Xzavier who is neutral (too much lurking, his posts are not good enough to make up for that that much lurking) and Koshi. Some other people have been calling Koshi scum recently, but I have him as neutral. Mmmmmmmmm nope. I like Chrom's answer better: On July 15 2013 05:48 Chromatically wrote:
The three scummiest people in the game (Kirby, Koshi, Xzav) are on the Super wagon. & like I said this makes no sense. These three scummiest in the game? What about jkirby & superfluous? Righto, Svengali. Wide eyes, mesmerized, ain't he clever? Righto, Svengali! Obviously I felt the two candidates were scummier. Don't take your deficient reading comprehension out on me. Onegu where is your case on me for sayin it twice now? And the fact that you thought these isn't the point, that would just be captain hindsight. It would just mean you liked the idea that there were very likely 5 scum in the game. No, it means that the people who I trusted the least were on one bandwagon compared to people I trusted more on another. I can't believe you've never explored this avenue of logic. It's pretty intuitive. This has nothing to do with my meta ideas though This is just tunnel coming from trying to express that somehow So take with salt
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On July 18 2013 04:24 Xzavier wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 04:21 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 18 2013 04:18 Xzavier wrote:On July 18 2013 04:02 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Right now, I'm hoping Super is just Real-Life inactive and not intentionally lurking. We could use a counter-triple-kill (lynch scum, modkill scum, SK shoots scum). A boy can dream... its like he just did his job of getting suspicion off him and removing himself from the lynch candidates then goes inactive, like it doesn't matter who gets lynched as long as it isnt him. Thats pretty scummy, suppose he pops in the last few hours, which honestly to me is at any point between now and the lynch, the closer to the lynch the worse. IMO this looks like a good way to wait until a bandwagon has formed on not him, then show up when its too late to form another candidate. and thats scummy as hell to me. and as far from pro-town you can get short of posting 100% spam. hes already posted so all he has to do is throw a last minute vote on the bandwagon, and then he is magically forgotten about again. and watch, now that he is being talked about he is in a "damned if you do, damned if you dont" because hes lurked for too long, and so he would appear once hes starting to be talked about again/deadline. Whatever he does at this point looks scummy, which is frustrating because unless he gets a rock solid case on somebody he is my top scumread. He is my lynch candidate. However gotard does look scummy, i see him as a serious lynch candidate, but who the fuck is running against him to die? Nobody? isnt that strange in and of itself. When there are mutliple scummy people in the game and only one of them is getting votes? shouldnt scum buddies be atleast SEMI-attempting to defend him? It seems to me like scum are okay with this lynch, and that is worrysome. there was no resistance to his case (basically) and i cant imagine people full-bussing when all they would have to do is ask/answer harmless questions and make pro-town moves to do it.
i think lynching super helps us more, do you want super at LYLO? atleast gotard you can get reads off of because he posts. Having a hardcore lurker at LYLO is a horrible nightmare. The bolded is exactly what I thought at one point. But there is an explanation: What if his scumbuddies are lurking. If Super is scum and legit afk, he obviously won't defend Gotard. Then it just takes one independently-acting scummer to see the writing on the wall and Bus gotard, or otherwise just blend in. I love a Super lynch tonight if he posts or votes, but I don't like a Super lynch if he's going to get /replaced (kicked for inactivity). hes already posted, and he can wait to vote until he deems it too late to be lynched tonight yet not too late to instantly get lynched the next day, queue the damned if you do damned if you dont.
This is messed up. If he's following his wincon to the max, his only play now is to get himself /replaced. That is some seriously screwed up shit.
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Maybe an SK can put an end to this headache...
(Yes, I still think you are the SK.)
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So, I think this might be relevant. Alakaslam says Super is a town read to him:
On July 18 2013 04:16 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 04:12 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
@Alakaslam
What do you think of Superfluous? Town ish but why is he gone. Let me look you up or I will wind up not answering you
Townish! Well, that's certainly surprising. Ah well, but Alakaslam is full of surprises. It probably is just an isolated incident. A bad read based off some misunderstanding...
On July 14 2013 13:54 cloud-9 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 13:31 Chromatically wrote:I just reread hz's case, and I really don't like it. He calls out a lot of things that aren't actually scummy. Look at the summary:
To conclude, Super's priorities seem to be
1) Stay Alive
2) Find a person to vote for
3) Find justifications for voting
This is literally a list of objectives as either alignment. Town obviously wants to stay alive. Finding a person to vote for with reasoning is also town. The difference between the alignments is that town want to find scum, and mafia doesn't actually want to. Super looks like he's honestly trying to find scum. I agree that these objectives can belong to either alighnment and it is my intuition at this present moment that super is being earnest in his attempts to find scum.
....
Oh my...
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On July 18 2013 04:32 Onegu wrote:
Hurricane you scum on Alakaslam?
Yes. Hard scum. Firm scum. Solid scum. Anyway you want it that's the way you scum it.
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To spell it out (I'd do this during nighttime usually, but the NK was so wacky I'm going to stop WIFOMing the night actions):
Mafia:
Alakaslam
Gotard
Super
SK:
Xzavier
In that order of confidence.
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May as well make the cases for all of them while I'm here (I'll be out for the deadline starting at 5:30pm Eastern USA time, which shouldn't be a problem since the hz plan calls for us to lock our votes in an hour ahead of time):
Alakaslam:
Jumped into the trap laid by myself, hz, and (unwittingly) Onegu -
On July 18 2013 03:26 Alakaslam wrote:
Ebwop 2 of my posts up
In other words why not Hzflank? He voted you too and was the only other one who then switched his vote, causing me to be solo
Backs off his pressure of me IMMEDIATELY upon figuring out that he has fallen into said trap:
On July 18 2013 03:36 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 03:33 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
And there goes the ninja voteswap. Alakaslam is panicking now. That happened as soon as I finished the point where I said stop talking about the tribunal because SVENGALI if I was panicked I'd not say that ONEGU COME TUNNEL :D
Echoes unfounded support of Super by his predecessor cloud-9 -
On July 18 2013 04:16 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 04:12 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
@Alakaslam
What do you think of Superfluous? Town ish but why is he gone. Let me look you up or I will wind up not answering you
On July 14 2013 13:54 cloud-9 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 13:31 Chromatically wrote:I just reread hz's case, and I really don't like it. He calls out a lot of things that aren't actually scummy. Look at the summary:
To conclude, Super's priorities seem to be
1) Stay Alive
2) Find a person to vote for
3) Find justifications for voting
This is literally a list of objectives as either alignment. Town obviously wants to stay alive. Finding a person to vote for with reasoning is also town. The difference between the alignments is that town want to find scum, and mafia doesn't actually want to. Super looks like he's honestly trying to find scum. I agree that these objectives can belong to either alighnment and it is my intuition at this present moment that super is being earnest in his attempts to find scum.
Had a scum read on Chrom he never pressured:
*QUOTE UNAVAILABLE. NO EVIDENCE OF PRESSURE EVER DETECTED*
Unwilling to carry on a conversation. Due to inability to explain his actions? Devolves to 'No U' when not appropriate:
On July 18 2013 03:22 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 03:13 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 18 2013 03:09 Alakaslam wrote:On July 18 2013 02:25 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
@Alakaslam
I'm very eager to hear your thoughts on my answers to Onegu's case. I like them, you did quite well. But that isn't why I voted you. Meta meta! Thou art a bombastically assured individual this game, not the hurricane I know*. Then again I have changed some as well. Of course, at this point I am solo voting you**, why do this in majority***? So see the thread. I had already liked a Gotard lynch before****. *: Using meta**: Misrepreseting facts (see: lying)***: WIFOM****: Unwillingness to vote Gotard despite scum readNot a good look, slambro. You are doing much of what you accuse me of in here by doing this Not good look Rofl
Declares that I was 'wrong' about what was going on in the scum QT. Not 'he couldn't have known' (as Onegu said). But that I was actually definitively 'wrong' about what was going on there:
On July 17 2013 00:56 Alakaslam wrote:
Oh yeah him being wrong about qt- does this not point to him being null, he could make same mistake town or scum
This reaction to the Roleblock:
On July 16 2013 10:32 Alakaslam wrote:Shit
(This point continued at the bottom of the page. It's important to set this point up organically, as you will see)
Fearful of the Tribunal (a natural scum reaction if they were three townies):
On July 16 2013 00:50 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 23:52 hzflank wrote:
Just caught up. Initial thoughts:
Chrom and Super are not both scum. That's the only really solid association that I see. Chrom started to heavily defend Super 8 hours before the lynch, and that would never of happened if they were both scum. So to the people who are already making that association I suggest that you think along other lines.
I do not like that whole council thing. It made it too easy to sheep. It was too early in the game for players to have such solid town reads on each other. I almost feel like people tried to put a reverse-sheep on me where I was told I that I should not move my vote (I will vote as I think best, I do not need other people to give me reasons to vote).
First order of business is to be a play by play on the council thing. That whole council shpeil is based on too much NMM XLIII meta anyway. How the hell was that formed day 1... It like begging for Svengali play. Please google Svengali, outside of the context of mafia, if you don't get it. It's a French novel that I haven't read but that I know the gist of. Umasi where is the Chezzy post? Need it buried in a GOOD case
(Quick point on the above, neither Umasi and Rainbows were in NMM XLIII. Not sure what he's talking about here)
Jarring disparate read on two of the townies townies since Lady Galadritown went town shopping in Townton Abbey:
On July 15 2013 11:51 Alakaslam wrote:
Dude Lose shit meter 100%, in the total opposite fashion to other games. I have LOST IT! I neeeeeeeed to read. If I don't I would tunnel Chrom and Umasi into the dirt even if one flipped town. Gimme a sec!
Continuing with the reaction to the roleblock:
On July 16 2013 10:36 Alakaslam wrote:
Appears they ed: (the mafia) may (have a roleblocker). However you may have been jailed too.
Hmm.
I actually don't think jailer should claim if he did, actually I don't know if it was wise to claim this Chrom. I don't know though, how does it help town?
Now I want to reference the Night 1 flips. I assumed the SK killed Koshi (scum read) and mafia killed Rainbows (town read to me). I posted with this assumption, and hz jumped down my throat for it. Now remember, Chrom was one of Alakaslam's hardest Scum reads. Why would Alakaslam assume the mafia roleblocked him if he were scum? Wouldn't he assume the Town roleblocked him?
-----------------------------------------
The above is my case for Alakaslam being scum.
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On July 18 2013 04:55 Gotard wrote:
What's the point of lynching Superfluous right now? Since he's gone there's no discussion around him. his case was closed after first day. He can only hope that people will think that day one was town-town lynch which is the case.
Whoa, what? You think Superfluous is town?
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EBWOP: Oh, my heart stopped. I thought that was Onegu saying that. Just gotard, no worries.
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On July 18 2013 05:09 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 04:25 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 18 2013 04:22 Alakaslam wrote:On July 15 2013 07:22 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 15 2013 07:19 hzflank wrote:On July 15 2013 06:47 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 15 2013 05:56 hzflank wrote:On July 15 2013 05:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
I'd be on board for a gotard hammer if someone can make a good case that mafia are on this wagon pushing for a mislynch. You don't think that Mafia are on that wagon? From my position you are on the scummy wagon.I am reading Gotard again. I did not think that the cases against him were strong, but on the other hand Gotard's filter after 24 hours was horrible. The problem that I have with reading his more recent posts is that I am struggling to separate an alignment read from a personality read. I think Gotard could very well be scum, but I still think that Super is more likely. If you look at Chrom's defense of Super, almost every point was that it was bad play rather than scum play. When you make that many consecutive defenses and call them all bad play then alarm bells should be ringing. Elaborate on this if you can, hz. Gotard is scummy. Stim is still at least in the top 5 of my scum list. Nightcat is a lurker who just randomly added his vote. Chrom is neutral at best. At best that wagon has 2 scummy, 2 neutral and 2 townie players on it. The other wagon has Umasi, who I think is townie. Xzavier who is neutral (too much lurking, his posts are not good enough to make up for that that much lurking) and Koshi. Some other people have been calling Koshi scum recently, but I have him as neutral. Mmmmmmmmm nope. I like Chrom's answer better: On July 15 2013 05:48 Chromatically wrote:
The three scummiest people in the game (Kirby, Koshi, Xzav) are on the Super wagon. & like I said this makes no sense. These three scummiest in the game? What about jkirby & superfluous? Righto, Svengali. Wide eyes, mesmerized, ain't he clever? Righto, Svengali! Obviously I felt the two candidates were scummier. Don't take your deficient reading comprehension out on me. Onegu where is your case on me for sayin it twice now? And the fact that you thought these isn't the point, that would just be captain hindsight. It would just mean you liked the idea that there were very likely 5 scum in the game. No, it means that the people who I trusted the least were on one bandwagon compared to people I trusted more on another. I can't believe you've never explored this avenue of logic. It's pretty intuitive. This has nothing to do with my meta ideas though This is just tunnel coming from trying to express that somehow So take with salt Do I look intuitive to you? This actually makes stronger a previous point of mine regarding myself. However I now believe I can help town by this, which is so hard by phone I actually got to a PC. (I need to get P.O. Numbers for my fuel purchases anyway). + Show Spoiler +Oh this is so much easier not needing to type bbcode And find Images! :D ![[image loading]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/Flickr_jennerosity_3399911471--Nachos.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://www.themlbnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/new_york_mets_logo-95091.gif) Wooohoooo ![[image loading]](http://www.lolsx.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/15112012125305-the-original-portal.jpg) My theme song
Are you soft-claiming a PR?
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On July 18 2013 05:11 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 05:09 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
EBWOP: Oh, my heart stopped. I thought that was Onegu saying that. Just gotard, no worries. Gotard has been scum on Super, that's still a problem.
Sort of. He was an entrenched vote on Kirby when Super was a candidate Day 1. He thinks super is scum in words only, not with his vote.
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On July 18 2013 05:13 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 05:11 Xzavier wrote:
alaka, respond to his case, dont just try to pass it off as: "SEE THESE FUCKUPS I MADE PROOVE HIM MORE SCUM"
actually tell us why the inconsistencies and defend youself.
dont tunnel him so hard that you ignore cases against yourself. Problem is part of what he wants me to do is explain why I am suspicious of him. I'm not gonna defend myself, svengali has you all mesmerized. If I flip this will help more than defending myself against him, if he's town defending against him is scum's job.
What? If I'm town, it's scum's job to defend you from me?
Did you just admit you're scum?
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On July 18 2013 05:16 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 05:15 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 18 2013 05:13 Alakaslam wrote:On July 18 2013 05:11 Xzavier wrote:
alaka, respond to his case, dont just try to pass it off as: "SEE THESE FUCKUPS I MADE PROOVE HIM MORE SCUM"
actually tell us why the inconsistencies and defend youself.
dont tunnel him so hard that you ignore cases against yourself. Problem is part of what he wants me to do is explain why I am suspicious of him. I'm not gonna defend myself, svengali has you all mesmerized. If I flip this will help more than defending myself against him, if he's town defending against him is scum's job. What? If I'm town, it's scum's job to defend you from me? Did you just admit you're scum? I mean if I'm scum of course I'll defend. If I'm town I don't give a rat's ass so I don't Where is the bus if I'm scum
If you refuse to defend yourself, I guess that's your prerogative. But I hope you have a plan.
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On July 18 2013 05:16 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 05:13 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 18 2013 05:11 Chromatically wrote:On July 18 2013 05:09 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
EBWOP: Oh, my heart stopped. I thought that was Onegu saying that. Just gotard, no worries. Gotard has been scum on Super, that's still a problem. Sort of. He was an entrenched vote on Kirby when Super was a candidate Day 1. He thinks super is scum in words only, not with his vote. Yes? He's said that Super is top 2 scum for him and then just called him town.
I think we're arguing the same thing. That both Gotard and Super are scum.
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On July 18 2013 05:19 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 05:18 Xzavier wrote:On July 18 2013 05:17 Xzavier wrote:On July 18 2013 05:16 Alakaslam wrote:On July 18 2013 05:15 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 18 2013 05:13 Alakaslam wrote:On July 18 2013 05:11 Xzavier wrote:
alaka, respond to his case, dont just try to pass it off as: "SEE THESE FUCKUPS I MADE PROOVE HIM MORE SCUM"
actually tell us why the inconsistencies and defend youself.
dont tunnel him so hard that you ignore cases against yourself. Problem is part of what he wants me to do is explain why I am suspicious of him. I'm not gonna defend myself, svengali has you all mesmerized. If I flip this will help more than defending myself against him, if he's town defending against him is scum's job. What? If I'm town, it's scum's job to defend you from me? Did you just admit you're scum? I mean if I'm scum of course I'll defend. If I'm town I don't give a rat's ass so I don't Where is the bus if I'm scum why the fuck would scum need to bus you yet???? you seriously think your position right now is that your lynch is unavoidable O.O i dont get it, at all. YES
Alakaslam, I love you. But if this is your attitude, Forum Mafia may not be your game, friend.
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Wait, alakaslam thought I was scummy. Why is he packing it in as if I represent the entire town vote?
As town: A guy I think is scum accuses me. Play: Defend and counter-attack!
As scum: A guy I know has huge town cred attacks me. Play: Curl up and cry.
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WOW
For the record my post just now was not reactive. I was constructing it simultaneously. That is amazing how well I called that.
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On July 18 2013 05:22 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 05:19 Alakaslam wrote:On July 18 2013 05:18 Xzavier wrote:On July 18 2013 05:17 Xzavier wrote:On July 18 2013 05:16 Alakaslam wrote:On July 18 2013 05:15 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 18 2013 05:13 Alakaslam wrote:On July 18 2013 05:11 Xzavier wrote:
alaka, respond to his case, dont just try to pass it off as: "SEE THESE FUCKUPS I MADE PROOVE HIM MORE SCUM"
actually tell us why the inconsistencies and defend youself.
dont tunnel him so hard that you ignore cases against yourself. Problem is part of what he wants me to do is explain why I am suspicious of him. I'm not gonna defend myself, svengali has you all mesmerized. If I flip this will help more than defending myself against him, if he's town defending against him is scum's job. What? If I'm town, it's scum's job to defend you from me? Did you just admit you're scum? I mean if I'm scum of course I'll defend. If I'm town I don't give a rat's ass so I don't Where is the bus if I'm scum why the fuck would scum need to bus you yet???? you seriously think your position right now is that your lynch is unavoidable O.O i dont get it, at all. YES Well let me explain. Oneg had a case against hs that I thought was ok and he did defend really well. Then I had meta vibes, he's not playing like the strong town I once saw*. He is playing far more. . . I don't know, capably and with more influence. He is basically controlling town at this point.** I think that's great when there have been successful lynches but not when every single one seems to land on town**, yet with great cases. When scum has a great svengali esque leader, town loses- LOSES! It is better that one die and point this out with his death than that he go defending himself and give svengali more towncred.
*Not playing strong enough
**Playing too strong
*** There has been one (1) lynch
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If this were plurality, I'd be pushing for a 'slam lynch right now. I believe he is the slightly scummier player. Since it is majority, I'm extremely pleased we have the votes for a Gotard lynch. They're scum numbers #1 and #1a to me. Go forward with the Gotard lynch. We'll get Slam tomorrow if anyone has thoughts on my case. (assuming the game doesn't end tonight if Gotard is somehow a mislynch and the stupid SK kills a townie)
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Sponge's Official Meta
Dictated (but not read) by Professor Emeritus Alakaslam:
And Lo! Shall the Hurricane known as Sponge not be allowed to have fun at the silliness that may ensue in The Game. For that shall be deemed inconsistent with his demeanor most dour.
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Constructive criticism?
On July 17 2013 09:54 Hurricane Sponge wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 09:27 Nightcat99 wrote:I have been reading the filters again for gotard and super and here is what i think. On July 13 2013 19:53 Gotard wrote:
Hello! After some lurking (jk I was sleeping) i'd like to share my thoughts:
On July 13 2013 20:12 Gotard wrote:On July 13 2013 19:57 Chromatically wrote:
Gotard, who do you want to lynch? Easy question. Umasi and Xzavier!!! (jk) On July 14 2013 05:32 Gotard wrote:
"On top of that, he's barely posted, hasn't posted an original scumread, and has pressured no one.". It's hard to post "original scumread" when you are in EU timezone and game is the most active when you sleep. Do you want me to talk to myself? rotfl. (That was a little scummy excuse T_T). I do what I can do which is more passive play. On July 16 2013 02:44 Gotard wrote:
Getting mad after misreading. Emotional plays like that indicates bad town to me. Unless he wants to fake being mad after I defended Stim.
And the most important note : he can't spell my name. On July 16 2013 03:40 Gotard wrote:On July 16 2013 03:33 Koshi wrote:
Gotard, How can I become good town? You need to become town first. Play again!? On July 17 2013 07:33 Gotard wrote:Wanted to check stuff before going to sleep. (offtopic I might add you on osu! later if I will remember)[ He has been adding in j/k and other things in his post to make his posting seem much more relax then it is and thats a very scummy read to me. Plus it can be a precaution for future slip ups. Also he most recent post after long hour of lurking didnt help the situation but seems to make things worst On July 17 2013 07:27 Gotard wrote:My top reads: Town: -Umasi -Onegu Mafia: Superfluous - still didn't do anything pro town except for out of place cop advice. But everyone assumes town-town lynch day 1. Problem is that we couldn't move our votes freely because this tribunal thingy and there wasn't enough place for mafia to make big plays even when they would like to defend him. Another this is that Chromatically defended him so mafia didn't even have to do that. To be honest jrkirby's case on me could be good enough to put him as 2nd lynch but someone needed to put some effort into highlighting that. That is why even when that lynch looked like it was town-town it might not be the case. On July 16 2013 10:59 Superfluous wrote:
For once I agree with Xzavier, Maf don't have to role block so they could just skip a night and say one of them got role blocked. That said I doubt they'd do it night one. This post looks like "hey everyone! Mafia don't have a role blocker!". Nightcat99 - Ask questions that you can easily google and find answers in 10 seconds. Shitload of useless one/two liners. 4 pages of bad content. Off-topic: I was surprised that you can post during the day in my first game, but you should check it... i mean his top 2 town read were umasi, who no one has accused and onegu, who replaced stim, who gave alot of tells, athough nothing is for sure, no one is accusing onegu mainly because os stims blowup. his mafia picks superfluous , the current most voted person , and me which isnt even an accusation. I would vote gotard at a heart beat atm, but i am still hoping super would come back and post somethings before i put my vote in, beside there is plenty of time left. This is interesting analysis. Thank you for posting it. (Trying to be encouraging to new players who are bringing unique analysis to the scumhunt)
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You know what they say. There's nothing in the world more terrible than that moment in an argument that you realize you are wrong.
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On July 18 2013 05:37 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 05:29 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
We'll get Slam tomorrow if anyone has thoughts on my case. (assuming the game doesn't end tonight if Gotard is somehow a mislynch and the stupid SK kills a townie) We can think about who we pressure tomorrow after we see a flip. Lets just start by lynching scum today. The game cannot end yet due to night actions. Even if the town were to end up outnumbered by the scum, with the SK in the game almost anything could happen. Regardless, the ideal situation would be to lynch red today.
Mislynch, successful scum NK, SK hits a townie. That's game over in some formats because the Mafia equal the Townies (3 to 3). There was a game on TL mafia very recently involving a Survivor (I think it was Wave of Shadow?) where the admin said that once the mafia equal the number of town, it's endgame: winner Mafia.
Can we get a ruling for this game? Is it still game on if it's 3/3/1?
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On July 18 2013 05:37 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 05:36 Hurricane Sponge wrote:Constructive criticism? On July 17 2013 09:54 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 17 2013 09:27 Nightcat99 wrote:I have been reading the filters again for gotard and super and here is what i think. On July 13 2013 19:53 Gotard wrote:
Hello! After some lurking (jk I was sleeping) i'd like to share my thoughts:
On July 13 2013 20:12 Gotard wrote:On July 13 2013 19:57 Chromatically wrote:
Gotard, who do you want to lynch? Easy question. Umasi and Xzavier!!! (jk) On July 14 2013 05:32 Gotard wrote:
"On top of that, he's barely posted, hasn't posted an original scumread, and has pressured no one.". It's hard to post "original scumread" when you are in EU timezone and game is the most active when you sleep. Do you want me to talk to myself? rotfl. (That was a little scummy excuse T_T). I do what I can do which is more passive play. On July 16 2013 02:44 Gotard wrote:
Getting mad after misreading. Emotional plays like that indicates bad town to me. Unless he wants to fake being mad after I defended Stim.
And the most important note : he can't spell my name. On July 16 2013 03:40 Gotard wrote:On July 16 2013 03:33 Koshi wrote:
Gotard, How can I become good town? You need to become town first. Play again!? On July 17 2013 07:33 Gotard wrote:Wanted to check stuff before going to sleep. (offtopic I might add you on osu! later if I will remember)[ He has been adding in j/k and other things in his post to make his posting seem much more relax then it is and thats a very scummy read to me. Plus it can be a precaution for future slip ups. Also he most recent post after long hour of lurking didnt help the situation but seems to make things worst On July 17 2013 07:27 Gotard wrote:My top reads: Town: -Umasi -Onegu Mafia: Superfluous - still didn't do anything pro town except for out of place cop advice. But everyone assumes town-town lynch day 1. Problem is that we couldn't move our votes freely because this tribunal thingy and there wasn't enough place for mafia to make big plays even when they would like to defend him. Another this is that Chromatically defended him so mafia didn't even have to do that. To be honest jrkirby's case on me could be good enough to put him as 2nd lynch but someone needed to put some effort into highlighting that. That is why even when that lynch looked like it was town-town it might not be the case. On July 16 2013 10:59 Superfluous wrote:
For once I agree with Xzavier, Maf don't have to role block so they could just skip a night and say one of them got role blocked. That said I doubt they'd do it night one. This post looks like "hey everyone! Mafia don't have a role blocker!". Nightcat99 - Ask questions that you can easily google and find answers in 10 seconds. Shitload of useless one/two liners. 4 pages of bad content. Off-topic: I was surprised that you can post during the day in my first game, but you should check it... i mean his top 2 town read were umasi, who no one has accused and onegu, who replaced stim, who gave alot of tells, athough nothing is for sure, no one is accusing onegu mainly because os stims blowup. his mafia picks superfluous , the current most voted person , and me which isnt even an accusation. I would vote gotard at a heart beat atm, but i am still hoping super would come back and post somethings before i put my vote in, beside there is plenty of time left. This is interesting analysis. Thank you for posting it. (Trying to be encouraging to new players who are bringing unique analysis to the scumhunt) What did nightcat do wrong there that is just acknowledgement of trying and good yes but one must be willing to give to town for svengali play
So... not being nice enough... but when I'm being nice it's an obvious scum play.
Do you see the problem here?
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On July 18 2013 05:43 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 05:41 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 18 2013 05:37 Alakaslam wrote:On July 18 2013 05:36 Hurricane Sponge wrote:Constructive criticism? On July 17 2013 09:54 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 17 2013 09:27 Nightcat99 wrote:I have been reading the filters again for gotard and super and here is what i think. On July 13 2013 19:53 Gotard wrote:
Hello! After some lurking (jk I was sleeping) i'd like to share my thoughts:
On July 13 2013 20:12 Gotard wrote:On July 13 2013 19:57 Chromatically wrote:
Gotard, who do you want to lynch? Easy question. Umasi and Xzavier!!! (jk) On July 14 2013 05:32 Gotard wrote:
"On top of that, he's barely posted, hasn't posted an original scumread, and has pressured no one.". It's hard to post "original scumread" when you are in EU timezone and game is the most active when you sleep. Do you want me to talk to myself? rotfl. (That was a little scummy excuse T_T). I do what I can do which is more passive play. On July 16 2013 02:44 Gotard wrote:
Getting mad after misreading. Emotional plays like that indicates bad town to me. Unless he wants to fake being mad after I defended Stim.
And the most important note : he can't spell my name. On July 16 2013 03:40 Gotard wrote:On July 16 2013 03:33 Koshi wrote:
Gotard, How can I become good town? You need to become town first. Play again!? On July 17 2013 07:33 Gotard wrote:Wanted to check stuff before going to sleep. (offtopic I might add you on osu! later if I will remember)[ He has been adding in j/k and other things in his post to make his posting seem much more relax then it is and thats a very scummy read to me. Plus it can be a precaution for future slip ups. Also he most recent post after long hour of lurking didnt help the situation but seems to make things worst On July 17 2013 07:27 Gotard wrote:My top reads: Town: -Umasi -Onegu Mafia: Superfluous - still didn't do anything pro town except for out of place cop advice. But everyone assumes town-town lynch day 1. Problem is that we couldn't move our votes freely because this tribunal thingy and there wasn't enough place for mafia to make big plays even when they would like to defend him. Another this is that Chromatically defended him so mafia didn't even have to do that. To be honest jrkirby's case on me could be good enough to put him as 2nd lynch but someone needed to put some effort into highlighting that. That is why even when that lynch looked like it was town-town it might not be the case. On July 16 2013 10:59 Superfluous wrote:
For once I agree with Xzavier, Maf don't have to role block so they could just skip a night and say one of them got role blocked. That said I doubt they'd do it night one. This post looks like "hey everyone! Mafia don't have a role blocker!". Nightcat99 - Ask questions that you can easily google and find answers in 10 seconds. Shitload of useless one/two liners. 4 pages of bad content. Off-topic: I was surprised that you can post during the day in my first game, but you should check it... i mean his top 2 town read were umasi, who no one has accused and onegu, who replaced stim, who gave alot of tells, athough nothing is for sure, no one is accusing onegu mainly because os stims blowup. his mafia picks superfluous , the current most voted person , and me which isnt even an accusation. I would vote gotard at a heart beat atm, but i am still hoping super would come back and post somethings before i put my vote in, beside there is plenty of time left. This is interesting analysis. Thank you for posting it. (Trying to be encouraging to new players who are bringing unique analysis to the scumhunt) What did nightcat do wrong there that is just acknowledgement of trying and good yes but one must be willing to give to town for svengali play So... not being nice enough... but when I'm being nice it's an obvious scum play. Do you see the problem here? Not an obvious scum play, this is more of a scum play than I was claiming that was! you are taking big leaps on what I say but won't tolerate any potential leap I make. As for the comment about being wrong, don't lynch me then and stop tunneling. If you actually believe that I'd rather spare you the trouble.
I made a case on you that you refuse to defend. I've made my other reads public, and will post cases on them at Nighttime. The fact that you feel that 40 minutes of pressure is 'tunneling' seems like your problem, not mine.
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On July 18 2013 05:47 Alakaslam wrote:
I have finally hit it, this is what actually bugs me:
Hurricane does not second guess a single lynch option of his. He did this a bit last game.
That is probably not a good enough reason to tunnel him.
So I cannot say whether or not I should continue. Funny, I also just realized when you said defend and counterattack? What was I doing then? If this is curl up and cry this is some nutsy crying
And far more coherent than I usually am. But I sux when coherent
Check the filter. I've gone back and forth on Super a lot. I explored hz as a scum target before I figured out what he was doing. I usually wouldn't defend myself from these, but it's too tasty, and I want Alakaslam to have no excuses for not defending my case on him.
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On July 18 2013 05:47 Alakaslam wrote:
I have finally hit it, this is what actually bugs me:
Hurricane does not second guess a single lynch option of his. He did this a bit last game.
That is probably not a good enough reason to tunnel him.
So I cannot say whether or not I should continue. Funny, I also just realized when you said defend and counterattack? What was I doing then? If this is curl up and cry this is some nutsy crying
And far more coherent than I usually am. But I sux when coherent
Bolded for key ingredient missing.
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I want Onegu's thoughts on my case as well.
@Onegu
What do you think of my case on Alakaslam?
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On July 18 2013 05:53 hzflank wrote:
EBWOP
I know how to win as town at 3/3/1 with a survivor...but no need to show you that play since we do not have a survivor.
Postgame maybe. If I can find your second play.
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Xzavier, you crazy bastard, get your vote on Gotard so I can leave the house.
(We may be vulnerable to No Lynch shenanigans. Alakaslam could pull his vote off for any number of reasons leaving us at 6. Then it would just take one more person to feign confusion or just make terrible plays to cause a No Lynch)
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On July 18 2013 06:40 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 05:41 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 18 2013 05:37 hzflank wrote:On July 18 2013 05:29 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
We'll get Slam tomorrow if anyone has thoughts on my case. (assuming the game doesn't end tonight if Gotard is somehow a mislynch and the stupid SK kills a townie) We can think about who we pressure tomorrow after we see a flip. Lets just start by lynching scum today. The game cannot end yet due to night actions. Even if the town were to end up outnumbered by the scum, with the SK in the game almost anything could happen. Regardless, the ideal situation would be to lynch red today. Mislynch, successful scum NK, SK hits a townie. That's game over in some formats because the Mafia equal the Townies (3 to 3). There was a game on TL mafia very recently involving a Survivor (I think it was Wave of Shadow?) where the admin said that once the mafia equal the number of town, it's endgame: winner Mafia. Can we get a ruling for this game? Is it still game on if it's 3/3/1? If a day starts and there are 7 players (3 mafia, 3 VTs, and 1 SK), the game is not over.If a day starts and there are 7 players (3 mafia, 3 VTs, and 1 Survivor), the game is not over.If a night starts and there are 7 players (3 mafia, 3 VTs, and 1 SK), the game is not over.If a night starts and there are 7 players (3 mafia, 3 VTs, and 1 Survivor), the game is not over. In this example, though, town can't win. It's just a question of whether the scum shoot the Survivor or whether they shoot a VT-- determine if it's a Scum or Scum+3p victory.
You can find the specific win conditions for all factions in the OP.
Thank you Blazinghand. Best admin NA.
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On July 18 2013 06:46 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 06:36 Chromatically wrote:
I won't be here until after deadline, lynch Gotard and don't pull any shennanies. Okay guys, now is our chance, everyone vote for Chrom.
Did someone say Tribunal Time?!
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On July 18 2013 06:55 Xzavier wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 06:50 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 18 2013 06:46 hzflank wrote:On July 18 2013 06:36 Chromatically wrote:
I won't be here until after deadline, lynch Gotard and don't pull any shennanies. Okay guys, now is our chance, everyone vote for Chrom. Did someone say Tribunal Time?! I CALL UPON THE VOTES OF THE OTHERWORLDY SOULS HEAR ME AS I CALL YOUR VOTES INTO EXISTANCE KOSHI, FIRMTOFU, BLAZINGHAND, RAINBOWS, JKIRBY JOIN US AS WE LYNCH THE UNGRATEFUL SCUM OF THIS GALAXY CAST YOUR VOTES DOWN FROM THE HEAVENS UPON THINE THAT KNOWS THE NAME OF CHROMATICALLY
Xzavier confirmed Nosy Neighbor
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On July 18 2013 06:56 Xzavier wrote:
EBWOP:
Oh, i forgot the one guy who carried me in my first mafia game, he was the JK, whats his name again?
oh god hes gonna kill me for this
I think it was a girl, actually. 'firere' or 'fferylt' or something, right?
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Woooo! Mafia PR lynch!
Shoutouts to Kirby and Rainbows!
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Catching up on the thread:
The post by super surprises me. He like Onegu's case on me, but apparently thinks very little of my case on Alakaslam (calling Onegu's case 'the closest we have to proven'). Obviously this rings scum to me. I'd like to hear which parts of Onegu's case he finds most compelling.
@Superfluous
Why do you think I'm scum?
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You know what? My ego is getting in the way. I'm going to step back from defending myself for a bit and focus on my Alakaslam case and secondary reads. Superfluous, I'd still like an answer, but if you can spare the time, I'd also like your thoughts on the Alakaslam case I posted.
I'd also like to see some independent scumhunting from you, please.
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On July 18 2013 13:02 Alakaslam wrote:Yeah, well done to the dead. Hs town. I can't really see him bussing this way. He'd have pushed harder, and other differences I think. Onegu, you may find the contents interesting: + Show Spoiler + I just died in my offsite game. I was vigi'd at night, so... Take from that what you will XD I am confident my team will win though. Can't say more because Oats is also in that game, and FYI I rolled scum. So I need to be careful what I say... Anyway under 1/3 less stress, may be a little more normal here on out. I'm still me though
Alakaslam, you got any thoughts on the wild Superfluous appearing from the tall grass?
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If he lurks Day 3, my Patent Pending Alakaslam Lose Shit Meter that I borrowed will be in the thousands.
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EBWOP: Assuming I'm alive. But two - three people have expressed that they think I'm scum, so I should be safe.
(... he said, as a figure stepped out from the shadows...)
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On July 18 2013 13:10 Xzavier wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 13:09 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
If he lurks Day 3, my Patent Pending Alakaslam Lose Shit Meter that I borrowed will be in the thousands. i think i know what this means, but im not positive. your saying youll put off alakasms lynch or lynch him instantly?
I dunno. I'm gonna give myself a mental break. I went super hard on mafia today, and I can sort of relax during night actions. I'm just gonna count today as an epic victory and play reactionary for the next couple hours.
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On July 18 2013 13:11 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 13:09 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
If he lurks Day 3, my Patent Pending Alakaslam Lose Shit Meter that I borrowed will be in the thousands. Damn that thing works by percentage- I only ever hit 120 on it today
Maybe that ancient Chinese lady sold me a knock-off version. It does say 'Device For Make Benefit Great Measurement of Missing Excrement' on the back...
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On July 18 2013 13:14 Alakaslam wrote:
Wait a bit that was preflip?
Ohhhhhh........
Super just moved to scum, and thanks again because now I know I tunnel much twice on two best town.
If not me, lets get super
And if me, I say go for super next
He is lurkin again isn't he then
Superfluous FoS'd Chrom directly, FoS'd me via sheep, and FoS'd Umasi indirectly in that post.
Just gonna let that sit there for a bit...
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Finger of Suspicion. It has many uses, but most of them end up leaving your finger smelling funny.
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Alakaslam, what's your read on Nightcat?
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PSA:
Everyone needs to be way better about posting their reads in the 1-hour grace period between the deadline and the Night Flip. Look how valuable Kirby and Rainbows' reads were. Make your (potential) death meaningful! Craft an elegant post today, and post it right before the flip / after the action deadline passes.
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On July 18 2013 13:40 Onegu wrote:
Sorry posting from hospital, feeling bad but will be out later today. Im off nightcat now, he and gotard arent scum together look at there interactions with each other I doubt they would bus each other that hard.
Totally down for a alakaslam lynch. Hurricane is only slightly scum to me and I will take my sights off him for a bit, still think he has alot of scummy posts though.
Feel better Onegu
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On July 18 2013 14:38 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 03:33 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
And there goes the ninja voteswap. Alakaslam is panicking now. I voted a good while before you noticed!
(Which I hate. Read my early post. I specifically request people tag their votes in both threads as a courtesy to me.)
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On July 18 2013 14:36 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 03:27 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 18 2013 03:26 Alakaslam wrote:
Ebwop 2 of my posts up
In other words why not Hzflank? He voted you too and was the only other one who then switched his vote, causing me to be solo His vote on me was a play. He practically had to spell it out for me (by requesting I go back and read a specific page-set with a clear head). He was fake-supporting Onegu's pressure so scum wouldn't feel exposed when they tried to hop on. hz even says that Onegu's case is weak in another post. Was trying to get you to see what I thought obvious but will now state: "if anyone could see that, why do you think the 'trap' will actually catch scum?"
Because they couldn't resist. If I was the only one under pressure (and willfully not defending myself) it begs people to pile on. Then we could see who did it without proper analysis. And then we'd have our scum!
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On July 18 2013 14:30 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 03:13 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 18 2013 03:09 Alakaslam wrote:On July 18 2013 02:25 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
@Alakaslam
I'm very eager to hear your thoughts on my answers to Onegu's case. I like them, you did quite well. But that isn't why I voted you. Meta meta! Thou art a bombastically assured individual this game, not the hurricane I know*. Then again I have changed some as well. Of course, at this point I am solo voting you**, why do this in majority***? So see the thread. I had already liked a Gotard lynch before****. *: Using meta**: Misrepreseting facts (see: lying)***: WIFOM****: Unwillingness to vote Gotard despite scum readNot a good look, slambro. I was voting Gotard as you wrote that, oddly enough. Check time stamps, this is the one that started to make me think you were scum and bicker. I still will use meta where I can. I also admit that I had changed, noting I was soon to change my vote. Posted this pretty much right before doing so. I genuinely thought it was solo. How is it WIFOM to say I'm not going to solo vote in majority? "Reading comprehension bro", but I don't mean that. I admired your abstinence from rude play last game, and am rarely rude on purpose anyway. My life has been getting shot back at for what I perceived as compliments- see Asperger's Syndrome, the Tvtropes article on it is stellar. Movin on.
So let me try to get the timeline right.
You liked a Gotard lynch early.
A Gotard wagon forms.
You didn't vote on Gotard for whatever reason.
Then you like me for a lynch.
The wagon on me forms.
You put your vote on me.
Then you move your vote off me to vote on Gotard.
I'm concerned with the bolded portion of the timeline
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On July 18 2013 14:42 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 04:25 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 18 2013 04:22 Alakaslam wrote:On July 15 2013 07:22 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 15 2013 07:19 hzflank wrote:On July 15 2013 06:47 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 15 2013 05:56 hzflank wrote:On July 15 2013 05:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
I'd be on board for a gotard hammer if someone can make a good case that mafia are on this wagon pushing for a mislynch. You don't think that Mafia are on that wagon? From my position you are on the scummy wagon.I am reading Gotard again. I did not think that the cases against him were strong, but on the other hand Gotard's filter after 24 hours was horrible. The problem that I have with reading his more recent posts is that I am struggling to separate an alignment read from a personality read. I think Gotard could very well be scum, but I still think that Super is more likely. If you look at Chrom's defense of Super, almost every point was that it was bad play rather than scum play. When you make that many consecutive defenses and call them all bad play then alarm bells should be ringing. Elaborate on this if you can, hz. Gotard is scummy. Stim is still at least in the top 5 of my scum list. Nightcat is a lurker who just randomly added his vote. Chrom is neutral at best. At best that wagon has 2 scummy, 2 neutral and 2 townie players on it. The other wagon has Umasi, who I think is townie. Xzavier who is neutral (too much lurking, his posts are not good enough to make up for that that much lurking) and Koshi. Some other people have been calling Koshi scum recently, but I have him as neutral. Mmmmmmmmm nope. I like Chrom's answer better: On July 15 2013 05:48 Chromatically wrote:
The three scummiest people in the game (Kirby, Koshi, Xzav) are on the Super wagon. & like I said this makes no sense. These three scummiest in the game? What about jkirby & superfluous? Righto, Svengali. Wide eyes, mesmerized, ain't he clever? Righto, Svengali! Obviously I felt the two candidates were scummier. Don't take your deficient reading comprehension out on me. Don't ask me to? This was all I was going to allow myself, I thought if I defended I would only give a very capable scum player more ammo to lynch me with. I was refusing to do anything but paint you red so after my flip itd be more likely to mirror XLIII Onegu where is your case on me for sayin it twice now? And the fact that you thought these isn't the point, that would just be captain hindsight. It would just mean you liked the idea that there were very likely 5 scum in the game. No, it means that the people who I trusted the least were on one bandwagon compared to people I trusted more on another. I can't believe you've never explored this avenue of logic. It's pretty intuitive. Well I didn't, so lynch me. Don't expect town victory by that avenue. This has nothing to do with my meta ideas though This is just tunnel coming from trying to express that somehow So take with salt
What's that mean? "I'm going to call you scum, but don't defend it because I said it might be wrong, I dunno"
What reaction were you trying to get by posting that?
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You know that none of this is my actual case on you, right? Have you found my formal post accusing you of being scum?
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On July 18 2013 15:05 Alakaslam wrote:
And if town roleblocked Chrom why not say "Shit" in scum qt? This makes me want to lean town on you but it is really WIFOM so it doesn't affect my read.
You're missing a lot of the points entirely.
Wouldn't you be happy Chrom was roleblocked if you had a scum read on him?
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On July 18 2013 15:09 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 15:06 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 18 2013 15:05 Alakaslam wrote:
And if town roleblocked Chrom why not say "Shit" in scum qt? This makes me want to lean town on you but it is really WIFOM so it doesn't affect my read. You're missing a lot of the points entirely. Wouldn't you be happy Chrom was roleblocked if you had a scum read on him? Not really. It enforced town reads on him, and you can't roleblock scum KP. That is why scum isn't roleblocked as much I think, but I should read the page where that happened. Of course, some things are unnatural, such as a massive building. Does that make it an accident?
Why does one of your scum reads getting roleblocked make you think he's town?
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On July 18 2013 15:19 Alakaslam wrote:
Hence you don't block your scumreads if you are jailer, unless there are two which we don't know yet.
So your opinion on Chrom was changed toward Town because you thought it's possible that the town jailor jailed him?
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On July 18 2013 15:06 Alakaslam wrote:
What did I think?
I thought he was blue, meaning I had been tunneling blue.
Last post before a reply. Sorry about the spam BH & Angie.....
Wait, you thought he was blue based on a roleblock claim? Explain why you think this as well
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On July 18 2013 15:57 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 15:52 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 18 2013 15:19 Alakaslam wrote:
Hence you don't block your scumreads if you are jailer, unless there are two which we don't know yet. So your opinion on Chrom was changed toward Town because you thought it's possible that the town jailor jailed him? Think. Does scum RB scum? No. Therefore. Massive building. Why massive building. Are you scum.
You know that a jailor doesn't have special information that guarantees the person he jails is Town, right? Just because he thinks Chrom is town, your read shouldn't have been effected. Walk me through this.
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On the topic of the roleblock:
On July 16 2013 10:59 Superfluous wrote:
For once I agree with Xzavier, Maf don't have to role block so they could just skip a night and say one of them got role blocked. That said I doubt they'd do it night one.
But I couldn't find any context for this in Xzavier's filter. Closest I could find is this:
On July 16 2013 10:38 Xzavier wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 10:36 Alakaslam wrote:
Appears they may. However you may have been jailed too.
Hmm.
I actually don't think jailer should claim if he did, actually I don't know if it was wise to claim this Chrom. I don't know though, how does it help town? was this even a question? fuck no the JK shoudlnt claim, thats stupid. and yes chrom should have claimed, if nobody else claims they were roleblocked we now know that in this game there is atleast 1 of the following two, a town JK, or a scum RB. If we get another roleblocked claim then we know we have both. this helps town because this gives town more information. having the JK claim gifts a power role to scum. please stop
He never mentions scum skipping a roleblock. I wonder why that was on Super's mind? Perhaps a tactic discussed in scum QT? If someone can put Super's train of thought into context, please let me know if you find it.
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On July 18 2013 16:11 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 16:01 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 18 2013 15:57 Alakaslam wrote:On July 18 2013 15:52 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 18 2013 15:19 Alakaslam wrote:
Hence you don't block your scumreads if you are jailer, unless there are two which we don't know yet. So your opinion on Chrom was changed toward Town because you thought it's possible that the town jailor jailed him? Think. Does scum RB scum? No. Therefore. Massive building. Why massive building. Are you scum. You know that a jailor doesn't have special information that guarantees the person he jails is Town, right? Just because he thinks Chrom is town, your read shouldn't have been effected. Walk me through this. But what if he was RB by scum. This isn't my favorite topic at night.
So you're saying you automatically assumed that he was RB by scum. You didn't consider that he could have been jailed?
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So your opinion on him shifted to town because someone else (the theoretical jailor) thought he was town. Alright, thank you.
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Thanks, Alakaslam. I appreciate you staying up late with me.
Please let me know when you're online tomorrow. I very much need to talk to you, but it needs to be close to the deadline.
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EBWOP: That goes for everyone. Please have your Last Will-style posts ready to go at the deadline. We were bad about that Night 1, and there's really no excuse not to post reads in event of untimely death.
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(My FoS is off 'slam until I get additional information)
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On July 18 2013 04:55 Gotard wrote:
What's the point of lynching Superfluous right now? Since he's gone there's no discussion around him. his case was closed after first day. He can only hope that people will think that day one was town-town lynch which is the case.
I'm struggling with this comment. Gotard threw this out right before he was lynched. His death looked inevitable to me, although I suppose he could have thought there were going to be shenanigans at the deadline. The takeaways from this comment's inconsistency with his recent read of Superfluous being a scum read break down into a 2x2 grid: The two variables are Super is Scum / Super is Town, and Gotard Thought He Could Live / Gotard Knew He Was Dead. Matrix below:
-------------------------
Super is Scum / Gotard Thinks He Can Live:
1.) Gotard thinks he can live; he and Super are scum. Throws out a new Town read on Super as protection instinct. Solo votes Nightcat.
Super is Scum / Gotard Knows He Will Die:
2.) Gotard knows he's going to die; thinks giving Super a Town read on a scumbuddy is a good play for some reason (help with this please?).
Super is Town / Gotard Knows He Will Die:
2.) Gotard knows he's going to die (and flip red) and is trying to mindrape us into thinking Super is his scumbuddy by creating this new association so close to his flip. (Is it too sophisticated a play to assume from Gotard?)
Super is Town / Gotard Thinks He Can Live:
4.) Gotard thinks he can live; he knows Super is town. (I cannot come up with a plausible explanation for his comment.)
-------------------
Now, we obviously can't rule anything out based on Super's alignment (because we don't know it!) right now, but we might be able to speculate on whether we think / can find evidence of whether Gotard knew he was doomed last night or if he thought he could somehow avoid the day's lynch.
At first blush, I feel like Gotard didn't realize how much of a slam dunk lynch he was. He was still throwing out passive accusations, and (sort of) playing the game. There were no martyr posts, no attempt to defend the accusations against him, and he may not have realized just how much trouble he was in. The last post that I'd call a 'defense' came timestamped July 17th, 20:11. When he posted it, there were only 3 votes on him. Once the hz, 'slam, Gotard and Nightcat votes come in on him (early timestamp July 18th 1:12 - 4:00) Gotard doesn't post another formal defense for the rest of the game.
I know that play this poor this may seem hard to believe to some of us, but based on the quality of Gotard's play to this point, I believe it's possible he didn't know how super screwed he was. His last post comes 2.5 hours before Superfluous' vote on him, so it's possible that with Super gone from the mafia QT for most of Day 2, Gotard was flying solo or at least down a man when he was posting.
I'd like people's thoughts on this line of thinking. Did it seem to you like Gotard knew he'd be lynched yesterday?
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On July 18 2013 04:18 Xzavier wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 04:02 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Right now, I'm hoping Super is just Real-Life inactive and not intentionally lurking. We could use a counter-triple-kill (lynch scum, modkill scum, SK shoots scum). A boy can dream... its like he just did his job of getting suspicion off him and removing himself from the lynch candidates then goes inactive, like it doesn't matter who gets lynched as long as it isnt him. Thats pretty scummy, suppose he pops in the last few hours, which honestly to me is at any point between now and the lynch, the closer to the lynch the worse. IMO this looks like a good way to wait until a bandwagon has formed on not him, then show up when its too late to form another candidate. and thats scummy as hell to me. and as far from pro-town you can get short of posting 100% spam. hes already posted so all he has to do is throw a last minute vote on the bandwagon, and then he is magically forgotten about again. and watch, now that he is being talked about he is in a "damned if you do, damned if you dont" because hes lurked for too long, and so he would appear once hes starting to be talked about again/deadline. Whatever he does at this point looks scummy, which is frustrating because unless he gets a rock solid case on somebody he is my top scumread. He is my lynch candidate. However gotard does look scummy, i see him as a serious lynch candidate, but who the fuck is running against him to die? Nobody? isnt that strange in and of itself. When there are mutliple scummy people in the game and only one of them is getting votes? shouldnt scum buddies be atleast SEMI-attempting to defend him? It seems to me like scum are okay with this lynch, and that is worrysome. there was no resistance to his case (basically) and i cant imagine people full-bussing when all they would have to do is ask/answer harmless questions and make pro-town moves to do it. i think lynching super helps us more, do you want super at LYLO? atleast gotard you can get reads off of because he posts. Having a hardcore lurker at LYLO is a horrible nightmare.
On July 18 2013 07:37 Superfluous wrote:
Hey guys sorry I've been missing, been sick the last few days and mafia hasn't really taken priority. Regardless I'm back and surprised that I am somehow not the main lynch target. I think Gotard is a good lynch and would like to honor kirby's last reads. That said I find it strange how no one is defending him too too much, though if he's maf it may just be that his teammates felt town would really push his lynch and they didn't want to defend him only for him to turn red.
Other thoughts: Gut still says something's up with Xzavier, but with the revelation of sk it could be that and not necessarily maf.
I agree with Onegu's case against Hurricane, though don't really have much to add to it. I realize it's kinda scummy to show up and just agree with the closest we have to proven but eh.
I feel like Chroma has been playing completely differently day 2 than day 1. Now, maybe that's because he spent the first day defending me and had less to do today, but it feels weird how his main reason for defending me and calling me town was just to lynch kirby. Also keep in mind that while I think Maf killed Rainbows and not Koshi, Koshi WAS going really hard on Chroma for defending me. One line sticks out in my head, Koshi said that considering how hard Chroma was defending me it was almost as if he knew I was town. Something to keep in mind.
I also feel like Umashi has done very little for town on day 2. Day 1 he was putting out pressure and trying to accomplish something, and it doesn't feel the same today. Now, he has ceded this roll to Onegu as he is pretty much confirmed yet hasn't done much himself. (Correct me if you feel I'm terribly wrong, this is just from skimming over and trying to post my thoughts before lynch). I also thought he was the obvious kill for mafia n1 if he was doing a good job of leading town.
An interesting theoretical similarity I found. I already explained to Xzavier, but I'm surprised strong players like them didn't come to the same conclusion I did (re: the lurker/busser theory I developed). Not sure if scummy, or just a coincidence.
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EBWOP: The reason it sticks out to me is because Chrom used the same argument during the Day 1 lynch, and it managed to get the votes to swing to his target.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 07:55 Chromatically wrote:
Wow, look at all the scum resistance to this Super lynch.
Mafia may have observed that phenomenon and lightly tried to test those waters themselves (at sufficiently disparate intervals).
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So, we're about half an hour from the Night 2 end.
My reads based on the Gotard flip:
Xzavier's filter looks worst with the Gotard flip. He supports a Super lynch over a Gotard flip because: "atleast gotard you can get reads off of because he posts. Having a hardcore lurker at LYLO is a horrible nightmare." Not the most compelling argument ever, but I guess it's plausible as town. However, everyone else went hard after Gotard at some point, and after reading all the filters, Xzav's stuck out to me. Reading through it, both of his arguments were 'Yeah, gotard looks scummy, but here's a reason why he shouldn't be lynched: _________ '
Superfluous also seems scummy to me, which seems like a strange bedfellow for Xzavier. It's easy to pick on his post activity, but he also brings very little unique analysis to the table in his posts. There's still significant unnaccounted-for content in his filter (for example: I want him to respond to my question about what he was referencing during the Roleblock-ing conversation).
Continuing the theme, my third scummiest read is Umasi (somewhat by PoE, but his Day 2 / Night 2 doesn't help). He also catches some heat from Superfluous, but his filter when you control-f 'Gotard' doesn't look great. A lot of soft defense followed by softer FoS. He also flatly resisted moving onto Gotard Day 1 (like Xzavier did) when I floated the idea of ambushing Gotard or Koshi when we had the votes to make it happen.
Now, some of these reads seem incompatible with each other. It seems to pivot on Superfluous; both Xzavier and Umasi have targeted him with strong cases. But these three are what's left when I knock out the three guys I feel are 99.9% - 100.0% town, one who is probably Town (outside chance he's SK) but certainly not Mafia, and the other two who are fairly solidly Town by virtue of good activity levels and scumhunt-rich filters.
I don't see the value in specifically revealing my town reads right now, but if you've been following the game, the map I outlined may make sense to you. YMMV. Let me know if you absolutely have to know if someone is in some tier or something. I don't see the harm or benefits in revealing this information unsolicited, however.
One exception, because I feel it may surprise people who read my case on allah-kah-Slam:
I do not suspect Alakaslam is scum. And neither should any of you, if'n -yous- were paying attention tonight.
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Nope. I checked Gotard.
Alakaslam claimed JK during the night. I don't know how I'm the only one who saw it.
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Nightcat was actually the guy in my read pyramid who I said was Probably Town / Maybe SK / No way in hell Mafia.
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I'm surprised no one picked up on it. I posted a huge case on Alakaslam, he didn't defend it very well, and then I suddenly change my read on him from Scum #1 to Pure Town. The clues were there.
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Nightcat, you were my #1 scum read at the end of Night 1. Like I said in obs chat, this game setup screams of 'Fuck With The Cop' (Godfather, Framer, Unknown Miller). The mafia could make it so only 1 of their 3 guys returns red, so I tried to make cop checks based on my reads. I wanted to check the second-scummiest guy each night (Gotard night 1, Xzavier night 2) and take the results with a grain of salt.
Sure enough, when Gotard checked back 'Innocent', I figured he was Framed defensively (or the Godfather), and that helped exonerate Nightcat (my #1 read). I was going to push for a Gotard lynch either way on Day 2, but if I'd gotten a Red check back, I would have been much less active to force others to develop the wagons.
Second game ever, first as a PR (much less a cop) so tagging mafia in both of my checks makes me happy.
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They were setting up an amazing play, actually. They wanted to Roleblock the veteran and kill him in the same night, so the town would think that there was an SK running around (thinking two shots on the vet instead of a RB and a NK).
For obvious reasons, that plan didn't pan out quite as they anticipated.
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On July 22 2013 06:37 Chromatically wrote:
Sponge, were you ever actually suspicious of Alaka or was all of that a play?
I legit thought 'slam was scum until he soft-claimed JK. That case on him was solid. I went back and re-read his filter to see if it could come from a JK, and it made sense, so I backed off.
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In other words, it was not the Aqua fake pressure play I used in XLIII to stay alive. Onegu's ridiculous read on me was enough for that (although I guess it didn't end up making much of a difference in the end. I was still the second guy NK'd)
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I dunno, maybe I'm just in synch with 'slam for whatever reason (I do have the benefit of having played in his last newbie game, and followed his Nuke Mafia game for the first 50 pages). The 'Mets' picture was the first really obvious one, but the Eagles song (and his pounding home of the 'massive building' point) had me worried that scum would shoot him that night. The danger of breadcrumbing is if scum pick it up, you're an easy target for the NK.
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On July 22 2013 07:30 Nightcat99 wrote:
Man, i shalnt have skipped slam's filter cause it was giving me a headache......
Second night kill on him instead of hzflank , would have been so good for me.
Mafia or SK definitely win if that goes down.
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(For what it's worth, I think Chrom was very townie this game. That dude hunted like a mothertrucker.)
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On July 22 2013 07:52 Superfluous wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 07:30 hzflank wrote:
At the point of my death, I had Super as Cop (with a N1 guilty check on Xzav), Sponge as JK and Umasi as SK. I also had Rainbows as Vet on D1. Yeah, if you look through my filter knowing who's who you could interpret my posts as fake soft-claiming cop. I do this a decent amount because it can make mafia waste a kill on me instead of going after real cop. Didn't work out too much this game because I had so much pressure on me early. Also, my first two and top scumreads were hzflank and xzavier. Too pro.
If I had interpreted your soft-claim, I would have hard claimed and pushed for your lynch. Which would have ended up with both of us dead.
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On July 23 2013 04:34 jrkirby wrote:
Were there any blues except cop and JK?
Also, everyone who I personally accused of being scum was scum: both hzflank and gotard. Major points for me?
Umasi sounded like he got vet in post-game:
On July 22 2013 05:45 Umasi wrote:
dw Nightcat
just be like me
roll vet
never be threatening, always wrong, kinda scummy but pretty townie>never get shot
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EPT
