EPTOn July 13 2013 08:54 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Umasi, stop defending me. Don't defend people in general. It's more valuable to hear them defend themselves by tenfold.
(Also, I don't want you handcuffing yourself to my ankle then flipping scum and having Town waste a bunch of time re-vetting me.)
This is a very reasonable request, but unfortunately I will not be posting it at this time for a couple reasons. First, it's not as impressive as the one I posted. Second, I intend to stay active in this community and will probably end up using a version of it at some point when (if?) I ever get that 'You Are Scum' PM.
Umasi, stop defending me. Don't defend people in general. It's more valuable to hear them defend themselves by tenfold.
(Also, I don't want you handcuffing yourself to my ankle then flipping scum and having Town waste a bunch of time re-vetting me.)
This is a very reasonable request, but unfortunately I will not be posting it at this time for a couple reasons. First, it's not as impressive as the one I posted. Second, I intend to stay active in this community and will probably end up using a version of it at some point when (if?) I ever get that 'You Are Scum' PM.
Why write this if you filp town, and we play in another game together and you post something similar but not as good I will tunnel you, and bring up this post.
On July 13 2013 15:39 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Just caught up on the thread for entertainment purposes:
First thoughts:
This fits StiM's playbook to a letter. The self-vote and martyring happened in XLII. Unfortunately, this happened while he was Town, so this doesn't really tell us anything. I like that there are other reasons for the votes (haven't done proper analysis yet), but I strongly encourage people to not interpret StiM on tilt as a scumtell.
Going back now to read the entire train of thought in context now:
Early on, StiM breaks down why he thought the kirby jokepost wasn't credible. (This elicits a big eyeroll, but is pretty benign albeit unnecessary).
+ Show Spoiler +
Then comes the massive over-reaction:
+ Show Spoiler +
I've read that post ten times, and can't really glean anything meaningful other than that StiM is in full-on turtle-up Defend Self At All Costs mode. Not necessarily a scumtell in a newbie game, I guess. I mean, who wants to die? Still, odd.
Chromatically notes that one of these posts sits very oddly with him (I'd guess it's the second one), but StiM's next post is one defending me / going after Kirby:
+ Show Spoiler +
So early in the game, I have felt pressure from Kirby and Chrom, while receiving unsolicited White Knighting from Umasi and StiM. (Side note: If there's some crazy mafia play floating around out there to chum up to me to make me look scummy after you guys flip Red, that's a losing strategy, boys.)
Important post from hz regarding StiM flipping out while everyone else interpreted the jokepost as a joke:
+ Show Spoiler +
Immediately, the first thing I thought of was that there is no way in hell the scum QT would let him continue ranting and raving like this. They would have told him immediately to chill out and claim he was joking too, or something. Bolding because this is the first real revelation I've had on this case.
If someone can provide a logical answer to the above, I'd appreciate it. Re: If StiM was Scum, would scum have really let him react this poorly and dig his own grave for this long?
Moving on: Rainbow seems to be sheeping Chromatically's pressure on StiM a bit.
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
Finally getting to the part where StiM starts posting about whether or not he was mad. Chromatically seems to be leading this attack. StiM gets tripped up trying to explain whether he was mad or pretending to be mad. None of this comes of making StiM look good.
+ Show Spoiler +
.... and then he takes his ball and goes home. Color me baffled. Could be town (like I said, he has proven he's willing to vote himself and go on tilt really easily), but definitely could be scum panicking. Moreso, I'm offended by his implication that the onus is on US to keep HIM entertained and willing to play this game.
Then Umasi joins the bandwagon:
+ Show Spoiler +
The first two 'reasons' reek of confirmation bias, and don't hold any weight for me. It could be construed as a scum Umasi hopping on a surefire bandwagon, but I have no confidence based on his earlier play that this poor play is inconsistent with a Town Umasi.
Other valuable thoughts to avoid Quadposting:
- I disagree with Superfluous' opinion on policy about No Lynch Day 1's, but the similarities to the Aqua - NN Claim issue is so striking I actually laughed aloud. My gut read was 'he's scum, day 1 lynch is the best play', but now I realize how the people pushing for Aqua's lynch Day 1 felt!
- Umasi really rushed to my defense early and often which leaves me with a weird scummy feeling for some reason. Kirby and Chrom were pressuring me, but they weren't firing fastballs. I feel like I explained myself well, but Umasi's intrusion made the whole exchange way more combative than I felt it deserved. Right now, my nightmare is that Umasi flips scum, and people link him to me via these early exchanges, leading to my own mislynch.
- Combining these two thoughts, Umasi then votes Superfluous for his 'scummy as crap' Day 1 No Lynch post (which I have explained in bullet point #1 I think is wrong, but not scummy).
- People are being too hard on lurkers (especially people who posted at the game start and then disappeared). It's talk that doesn't move the game forward because it's a freaking Friday Night. Umasi's supporting 'evidence' (i.e. he's lurking) on Superfluous is what inspired this bulletpoint, pointed out nicely by hz:
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
Unlike hz, however, I think these are just bad reads and bad play. Could be scum, of course, but it could equally likely be town. Still some good content, on my radar, and I'm glad hz pointed it out. Chromatically chimes in later with a post on Superfluous saying he has tried to not 'rock the boat' (which is exactly what he did with the No Lynch position he took):
+ Show Spoiler +
Yet more Superfluous pressure from Umasi.... the tunnel is on?:
+ Show Spoiler +
Just hit this post by Superfluous that set off real scumbells for me:
+ Show Spoiler +
I completely disagree with many significant points on this post (thinking Xzavier's post is scummy, finding one lurker scummier than the other, deciding Umasi is town because he's tunneling someone). It almost seems like he's OMGUS'ing hz because of the pressure on Umasi? Seems like a viable scumbuddy tactic: Call out in the QT for someone to defend you so you don't have to get into a shitfight yourself.
@Chrom:
Can you explain what this post means?
I also have a nitpick with this post:
I feel like the anger was definitely real, and StiM was trying play play Mr. Cool Cat by claiming that he was really in control the whole time, and just pretended to be angry. Still not clear what that motivation could have been, but the above 2x2 leaves out some key points and I feel you're making a bit more assumptions that you usually do...
Just caught up on the thread for entertainment purposes:
First thoughts:
This fits StiM's playbook to a letter. The self-vote and martyring happened in XLII. Unfortunately, this happened while he was Town, so this doesn't really tell us anything. I like that there are other reasons for the votes (haven't done proper analysis yet), but I strongly encourage people to not interpret StiM on tilt as a scumtell.
Going back now to read the entire train of thought in context now:
Early on, StiM breaks down why he thought the kirby jokepost wasn't credible. (This elicits a big eyeroll, but is pretty benign albeit unnecessary).
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 13 2013 09:25 StiMaDDict wrote:
@Rainbow
Also my read on jrkirby is null. This is a response to a request for elaboration from Rainbow.
+ Show Spoiler +
Pregame posts when people didn't even get their role pm are evidence to his case. Do I need to say more?
Not sure where he is going with this one..
He hasn't even fucking got his role pm and he's joking around pregame.
ok..
+ Show Spoiler +
And for his first post:
He's trying to get us to sheep together and follow a Bandwagon instead of looking for evidence and finding scum.
Finally:
Trying to defend one of the scum who is planning to lurk.
You can't ignore all this evidence guys. hzflank is scum.
##Vote: hzflank
I am not trying to defend hzflank in any shape or form however I do not agree with jrkirby's "read" on hzflank's post and I do not think it was alignment indicative.
Again I do not think this post point hzflank as a scum.
@Rainbow
Also my read on jrkirby is null. This is a response to a request for elaboration from Rainbow.
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 13 2013 07:41 jrkirby wrote:
Ok. I've been studying this long and hard, and I think I have enough evidence to make a clear case.
hzflank is scum
Clearly, hzflank is lying about this compliment. Liars are always scum. And look who he's talking to: the scum coach. Obviously he's in league with them.
He goes on, still talking to the scum:
This is an obvious admission that he wants town to die. Anyone who wants town to die is scum, end of story.
I will. Right here, right now.
Ok. I've been studying this long and hard, and I think I have enough evidence to make a clear case.
hzflank is scum
Clearly, hzflank is lying about this compliment. Liars are always scum. And look who he's talking to: the scum coach. Obviously he's in league with them.
He goes on, still talking to the scum:
This is an obvious admission that he wants town to die. Anyone who wants town to die is scum, end of story.
I will. Right here, right now.
Pregame posts when people didn't even get their role pm are evidence to his case. Do I need to say more?
Not sure where he is going with this one..
He hasn't even fucking got his role pm and he's joking around pregame.
ok..
+ Show Spoiler +
And for his first post:
He's trying to get us to sheep together and follow a Bandwagon instead of looking for evidence and finding scum.
Finally:
Trying to defend one of the scum who is planning to lurk.
You can't ignore all this evidence guys. hzflank is scum.
##Vote: hzflank
I am not trying to defend hzflank in any shape or form however I do not agree with jrkirby's "read" on hzflank's post and I do not think it was alignment indicative.
Again I do not think this post point hzflank as a scum.
Then comes the massive over-reaction:
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 13 2013 09:25 StiMaDDict wrote:
Another thing that is annoying the fuck out of me is that how Rainbow "interpreted" my post. This is what I wrote.
Explanation: I find a pressure vote to be a strategy for some people. It works sometimes but not all the times. jrkirby's "case" really is not something of content to be honest. I assumed that it was pressure vote to get some discussions going. So that is what I said. As for the second sentence, his "case" is really fucking bullshit, so there are two possibilities. Either he is joking around or he suck at scumhunting.
Now let's look at how Rainbow made me sound like.
Scummy? Yes, I did give jkirby's post a reason but I didn't doubt it. If I had said it was a joke vote and he didn't seem to be a joker, your statement makes sense. I said pressure vote and nothing more.
I didn't fucking say it was odd. Jesus, give me a break. I NEVER FUCKING SAID IT WAS SUSPICIOUS.
Note to all:
+ Show Spoiler +
Another thing that is annoying the fuck out of me is that how Rainbow "interpreted" my post. This is what I wrote.
Explanation: I find a pressure vote to be a strategy for some people. It works sometimes but not all the times. jrkirby's "case" really is not something of content to be honest. I assumed that it was pressure vote to get some discussions going. So that is what I said. As for the second sentence, his "case" is really fucking bullshit, so there are two possibilities. Either he is joking around or he suck at scumhunting.
Now let's look at how Rainbow made me sound like.
Scummy? Yes, I did give jkirby's post a reason but I didn't doubt it. If I had said it was a joke vote and he didn't seem to be a joker, your statement makes sense. I said pressure vote and nothing more.
I didn't fucking say it was odd. Jesus, give me a break. I NEVER FUCKING SAID IT WAS SUSPICIOUS.
Note to all:
+ Show Spoiler +
btw, I'm really trying to stay active. Sometimes I write really slow and I might be answering something that is couple of pages back. Sometimes I write one liners. My bad. + Show Spoiler +
If you don't like it, well fuck you
I've read that post ten times, and can't really glean anything meaningful other than that StiM is in full-on turtle-up Defend Self At All Costs mode. Not necessarily a scumtell in a newbie game, I guess. I mean, who wants to die? Still, odd.
Chromatically notes that one of these posts sits very oddly with him (I'd guess it's the second one), but StiM's next post is one defending me / going after Kirby:
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 13 2013 09:30 StiMaDDict wrote:
Seriously man.. this is the best you can do? If he has scum post, big deal. For all we know THIS could be his scum post. Who knows. Is this your first game jrkirby?
Seriously man.. this is the best you can do? If he has scum post, big deal. For all we know THIS could be his scum post. Who knows. Is this your first game jrkirby?
So early in the game, I have felt pressure from Kirby and Chrom, while receiving unsolicited White Knighting from Umasi and StiM. (Side note: If there's some crazy mafia play floating around out there to chum up to me to make me look scummy after you guys flip Red, that's a losing strategy, boys.)
Important post from hz regarding StiM flipping out while everyone else interpreted the jokepost as a joke:
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 13 2013 09:58 hzflank wrote:
The first thing to note is that Stim was unsure of whether Jrkirby's post was a joke or not. Stim reacted very different than everyone else did, but this could be because he viewed it as semi-serious while everyone else viewed it as a joke.
After that Stim tries to defend himself. Again Stim's reaction seems odd at first, but normal if you consider that Stim thinks the original case was serious. Stim is posting in an aggressive manner but that is more of a personality tell than an alignment tell.
I cannot help but be wish-washy here and conclude: I am eager to see more from Stim because I have absolutely no read on his alignment at this point.
The first thing to note is that Stim was unsure of whether Jrkirby's post was a joke or not. Stim reacted very different than everyone else did, but this could be because he viewed it as semi-serious while everyone else viewed it as a joke.
After that Stim tries to defend himself. Again Stim's reaction seems odd at first, but normal if you consider that Stim thinks the original case was serious. Stim is posting in an aggressive manner but that is more of a personality tell than an alignment tell.
I cannot help but be wish-washy here and conclude: I am eager to see more from Stim because I have absolutely no read on his alignment at this point.
Immediately, the first thing I thought of was that there is no way in hell the scum QT would let him continue ranting and raving like this. They would have told him immediately to chill out and claim he was joking too, or something. Bolding because this is the first real revelation I've had on this case.
If someone can provide a logical answer to the above, I'd appreciate it. Re: If StiM was Scum, would scum have really let him react this poorly and dig his own grave for this long?
Moving on: Rainbow seems to be sheeping Chromatically's pressure on StiM a bit.
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 13 2013 10:01 Rainbows wrote:
And then someone else words it better than I can. Bravo.
And then someone else words it better than I can. Bravo.
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 13 2013 10:03 Rainbows wrote:
The reason I thought it scummy.
It's hard to say how I thought about it, but then again I post rather sporadically with random thoughts.
The reason I thought it scummy.
It's hard to say how I thought about it, but then again I post rather sporadically with random thoughts.
Finally getting to the part where StiM starts posting about whether or not he was mad. Chromatically seems to be leading this attack. StiM gets tripped up trying to explain whether he was mad or pretending to be mad. None of this comes of making StiM look good.
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 13 2013 12:59 StiMaDDict wrote:
Edit:
If this is what you came up with, then gg wp.
Not really motivating to play anymore really.
Edit:
If this is what you came up with, then gg wp.
Not really motivating to play anymore really.
.... and then he takes his ball and goes home. Color me baffled. Could be town (like I said, he has proven he's willing to vote himself and go on tilt really easily), but definitely could be scum panicking. Moreso, I'm offended by his implication that the onus is on US to keep HIM entertained and willing to play this game.
Then Umasi joins the bandwagon:
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 13 2013 13:06 Umasi wrote:
Looking at it as stim is scum, it feels like he's trying to buddy him up as he has him read as a threat.
This reads to me as trying to assuage a concern someone would have with it before someone talked about it. And seriously, why would you even bother doing that?
It's not motivating to play because you don't have perma town cred?
Expect people to think you're scum, or not guaranteed town.
Like, why is it gg? If I remember you said Chrom was a solid scumhunter.
It's actually up there in this post
Don't omgus out of the fucking game, because that is not pro town, not defensible, and a surefire way to be lynched. And if you're town, that's obviously bad, because you're directly hurting town, wasting our time and not scumhunting.
If you're scum, that's ALSO an awful idea, because you're just saccing yourself.
Basically, rethink this and ignore what chrom has said about you and go contribute as much as you can in a protown way to turn opinions around, not just complain "I don't like people thinking I'm scum"
You are now a priority to figure out over Superfluous, although I still am looking at Superfluous.
##UNVOTE
##VOTE StiMadDDict
Looking at it as stim is scum, it feels like he's trying to buddy him up as he has him read as a threat.
This reads to me as trying to assuage a concern someone would have with it before someone talked about it. And seriously, why would you even bother doing that?
It's not motivating to play because you don't have perma town cred?
Expect people to think you're scum, or not guaranteed town.
Like, why is it gg? If I remember you said Chrom was a solid scumhunter.
It's actually up there in this post
Don't omgus out of the fucking game, because that is not pro town, not defensible, and a surefire way to be lynched. And if you're town, that's obviously bad, because you're directly hurting town, wasting our time and not scumhunting.
If you're scum, that's ALSO an awful idea, because you're just saccing yourself.
Basically, rethink this and ignore what chrom has said about you and go contribute as much as you can in a protown way to turn opinions around, not just complain "I don't like people thinking I'm scum"
You are now a priority to figure out over Superfluous, although I still am looking at Superfluous.
##UNVOTE
##VOTE StiMadDDict
The first two 'reasons' reek of confirmation bias, and don't hold any weight for me. It could be construed as a scum Umasi hopping on a surefire bandwagon, but I have no confidence based on his earlier play that this poor play is inconsistent with a Town Umasi.
Other valuable thoughts to avoid Quadposting:
- I disagree with Superfluous' opinion on policy about No Lynch Day 1's, but the similarities to the Aqua - NN Claim issue is so striking I actually laughed aloud. My gut read was 'he's scum, day 1 lynch is the best play', but now I realize how the people pushing for Aqua's lynch Day 1 felt!
- Umasi really rushed to my defense early and often which leaves me with a weird scummy feeling for some reason. Kirby and Chrom were pressuring me, but they weren't firing fastballs. I feel like I explained myself well, but Umasi's intrusion made the whole exchange way more combative than I felt it deserved. Right now, my nightmare is that Umasi flips scum, and people link him to me via these early exchanges, leading to my own mislynch.
- Combining these two thoughts, Umasi then votes Superfluous for his 'scummy as crap' Day 1 No Lynch post (which I have explained in bullet point #1 I think is wrong, but not scummy).
- People are being too hard on lurkers (especially people who posted at the game start and then disappeared). It's talk that doesn't move the game forward because it's a freaking Friday Night. Umasi's supporting 'evidence' (i.e. he's lurking) on Superfluous is what inspired this bulletpoint, pointed out nicely by hz:
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 13 2013 09:42 hzflank wrote:
I think Jrkirby's and Sponge's opening posts had the same motivation: to get discussion moving. Both have done this and we have multiple discussions taking place.
Since then, Sponge did a little coaching. Sponge has come under pressure from multiple people (for his opening post), and has dealt with it while being reasonably open. The only time that he has not been open is by refusing to post the other version of his opening post. Sponge did a little coaching again as he tried to stop Umasi from defending him. So far my read on Sponge has moved very slightly towards town.
Since his opening, Jrkirby has attacked Sponge for his opening post, and done nothing else. That's fine because it is early and Jrkirby is pushing to get a reaction from someone. This is not scummy to me, null read.
Umasi has defended Hurricane, which cannot be viewed as scummy at this point. Umasi has attacked Superfluous. I would say that this attack could be scummy as it is based on nothing, but it could just be to get Super to post more (he only has one post). Umasi then repeats that he thinks Super's post is scummy and votes for him. The problem I have with this is that Umasi claims Super's only post was scummy, when I do not think that it was.
If Umasi was looking for a reaction then I do not understand why he posted:
How was Super's post scummy as crap? I do not think that Umasi is looking for scum, and if he is not just fishing for Super to respond then I think that Umasi is just looking for a neutral place to put his early vote. Unlike Jrkirby's, Umasi's vote is not a troll vote.
I have a slight scum read on Umasi.
I think Jrkirby's and Sponge's opening posts had the same motivation: to get discussion moving. Both have done this and we have multiple discussions taking place.
Since then, Sponge did a little coaching. Sponge has come under pressure from multiple people (for his opening post), and has dealt with it while being reasonably open. The only time that he has not been open is by refusing to post the other version of his opening post. Sponge did a little coaching again as he tried to stop Umasi from defending him. So far my read on Sponge has moved very slightly towards town.
Since his opening, Jrkirby has attacked Sponge for his opening post, and done nothing else. That's fine because it is early and Jrkirby is pushing to get a reaction from someone. This is not scummy to me, null read.
Umasi has defended Hurricane, which cannot be viewed as scummy at this point. Umasi has attacked Superfluous. I would say that this attack could be scummy as it is based on nothing, but it could just be to get Super to post more (he only has one post). Umasi then repeats that he thinks Super's post is scummy and votes for him. The problem I have with this is that Umasi claims Super's only post was scummy, when I do not think that it was.
If Umasi was looking for a reaction then I do not understand why he posted:
How was Super's post scummy as crap? I do not think that Umasi is looking for scum, and if he is not just fishing for Super to respond then I think that Umasi is just looking for a neutral place to put his early vote. Unlike Jrkirby's, Umasi's vote is not a troll vote.
I have a slight scum read on Umasi.
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 13 2013 10:56 Umasi wrote:
He came in, emphasized his newness to the game, and it felt like he was giving excuses for not posting, not reasons.
(I realize that they're extremely similar, but I think it's a matter of tone)
the timing he came in at (right when we brought up lurkers) to be like "I'm trying not to lurk"
is just
kind of......weird?
I think it's out of place and scummy.
He came in, emphasized his newness to the game, and it felt like he was giving excuses for not posting, not reasons.
(I realize that they're extremely similar, but I think it's a matter of tone)
the timing he came in at (right when we brought up lurkers) to be like "I'm trying not to lurk"
is just
kind of......weird?
I think it's out of place and scummy.
Unlike hz, however, I think these are just bad reads and bad play. Could be scum, of course, but it could equally likely be town. Still some good content, on my radar, and I'm glad hz pointed it out. Chromatically chimes in later with a post on Superfluous saying he has tried to not 'rock the boat' (which is exactly what he did with the No Lynch position he took):
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 13 2013 10:59 Chromatically wrote:
Superfluous looks really bad, he's been apologetic in his posts (not trying to rock the boat) and has only said what others have already said. It looks like he's trying hard to find anything to post about because he wants to look active.
It's extremely odd that he specifically points out Cloud-9 as opposed to any of the other players who haven't posted. This shows pretty clearly that he's not trying at all to find scum, he doesn't even know who hasn't posted.
Also looking at Kirby.
Lurkers be lurking.
Superfluous looks really bad, he's been apologetic in his posts (not trying to rock the boat) and has only said what others have already said. It looks like he's trying hard to find anything to post about because he wants to look active.
It's extremely odd that he specifically points out Cloud-9 as opposed to any of the other players who haven't posted. This shows pretty clearly that he's not trying at all to find scum, he doesn't even know who hasn't posted.
Also looking at Kirby.
Lurkers be lurking.
Yet more Superfluous pressure from Umasi.... the tunnel is on?:
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 13 2013 11:02 Umasi wrote:
The difference here, is that he's ...... like
hard to articulate.
He is lurking, and pops in to post a comment at such a WEIRD time
like, immediately when the conversation mentions lurkers
compared to otherwise contributing thoughts.
I think Super is the best choice atm, but I'm by no means positive.
The difference here, is that he's ...... like
hard to articulate.
He is lurking, and pops in to post a comment at such a WEIRD time
like, immediately when the conversation mentions lurkers
compared to otherwise contributing thoughts.
I think Super is the best choice atm, but I'm by no means positive.
Just hit this post by Superfluous that set off real scumbells for me:
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 13 2013 12:24 Superfluous wrote:
As I said I just skimmed over after returning. Cloud 9 was a name I didn't see when comparing the posts I saw to the player list, so I pointed it out. And I have been trying to get something to talk about other than what seem to be mini discussions between certain people. I also don't get why you're attacking me saying "I'm not trying to find scum". In my own post I said that I was going to look it over again and get reads, obviously meaning that I hadn't looked that hard for scum yet.
Right now my biggest scum read is HZflank, because I still think Umasi is doing mostly pro town moves yet hz says its scummy. If it pushes to me actually being lynched I think that I'd still feel this way. He also had an early post or two that distracted somewhat from the discussion, which I'm always suspicious of.
I'll give nightcat benefit of the doubt. It's a bit weird he showed up once his name came up but eh. I realize thats not really a great reason but seems like we're in semi-similar situations. Xzavier I'm more suspicious of, he didnt have many posts then in his first one he shows up saying he'll consider lynching me. It's really scummy play to lurk then show up ready to lynch imo.
As I said I just skimmed over after returning. Cloud 9 was a name I didn't see when comparing the posts I saw to the player list, so I pointed it out. And I have been trying to get something to talk about other than what seem to be mini discussions between certain people. I also don't get why you're attacking me saying "I'm not trying to find scum". In my own post I said that I was going to look it over again and get reads, obviously meaning that I hadn't looked that hard for scum yet.
Right now my biggest scum read is HZflank, because I still think Umasi is doing mostly pro town moves yet hz says its scummy. If it pushes to me actually being lynched I think that I'd still feel this way. He also had an early post or two that distracted somewhat from the discussion, which I'm always suspicious of.
I'll give nightcat benefit of the doubt. It's a bit weird he showed up once his name came up but eh. I realize thats not really a great reason but seems like we're in semi-similar situations. Xzavier I'm more suspicious of, he didnt have many posts then in his first one he shows up saying he'll consider lynching me. It's really scummy play to lurk then show up ready to lynch imo.
I completely disagree with many significant points on this post (thinking Xzavier's post is scummy, finding one lurker scummier than the other, deciding Umasi is town because he's tunneling someone). It almost seems like he's OMGUS'ing hz because of the pressure on Umasi? Seems like a viable scumbuddy tactic: Call out in the QT for someone to defend you so you don't have to get into a shitfight yourself.
@Chrom:
Can you explain what this post means?
I also have a nitpick with this post:
I feel like the anger was definitely real, and StiM was trying play play Mr. Cool Cat by claiming that he was really in control the whole time, and just pretended to be angry. Still not clear what that motivation could have been, but the above 2x2 leaves out some key points and I feel you're making a bit more assumptions that you usually do...
Ok this is a long one and hurricane makes a few incorrect leaps in logic.
First in NMM XLII yes stim self voted, but day 3 under zero pressure. He was under alot of pressure here when he self voted.
Then your bolded first real revelation, unless you are in scum qt you dont know who or what is said in scum qt so trying to saythey wouldnt let him do something is just wrong, first scum game for me we had a modkill lurker and a regular lurker so there wasnt anyone to discuss things with.
Also why defend stim? Why not let him defend himself like you advocate?
On July 13 2013 16:29 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
I'm still a bit mad at StiM for his post implying that it was our job to keep him entertained. I'm going to give myself some time to cool off on that, because I don't appreciate people quitting on my team (if he is in fact town). This is a time investment for everybody, and it's damn selfish of him to pack up his ball and go home after really light pressure.
Townville:
Kirby pressured me appropriately after my opener. I like that. He also seems to have the same attitude as me regarding the quick StiMwagon:
hz is aggressively posting reads and seems to emulate my thoughts on the early Superfluous post:
Xzavier posted some decent thoughts (although he really didn't go out on any limbs):
Rainbows is active and is claiming credit for the StiM wagon. If StiM is town, as I suspect, I don't think scum would be claiming lead on an eventual green flip:
Planet Neutral:
I've found confusing material on Chrom that some may deem scummy (misrepresenting facts, leaping to conclusions, overblowing alignment-neutral mistakes). However, he also did his usual early game Poke'n'Prod, getting people to clarify their random claims that might otherwise have gone unchecked (very town).
Umasi is incredibly active, and hunting. The logic leaps, confirmation bias, and clumsy attacks aren't really helping the town, however (other than to just provide really obvious pressure). If there was a shade between Green and Black, I'd use it because I think the three options for Umasi are 'Bad Town' 'Good Scum' and 'Good Town That I Just Have Trouble Reading For Whatever Reason'.
Scum Central:
Superfluous has a lot of ground to make up. I don't like people attacking him for his bad policy, but at the end of the day, that's not the only thing going against him. I really disagree with his reads, and that has to account for something:
I'm still a bit mad at StiM for his post implying that it was our job to keep him entertained. I'm going to give myself some time to cool off on that, because I don't appreciate people quitting on my team (if he is in fact town). This is a time investment for everybody, and it's damn selfish of him to pack up his ball and go home after really light pressure.
Townville:
Kirby pressured me appropriately after my opener. I like that. He also seems to have the same attitude as me regarding the quick StiMwagon:
hz is aggressively posting reads and seems to emulate my thoughts on the early Superfluous post:
Xzavier posted some decent thoughts (although he really didn't go out on any limbs):
Rainbows is active and is claiming credit for the StiM wagon. If StiM is town, as I suspect, I don't think scum would be claiming lead on an eventual green flip:
Planet Neutral:
I've found confusing material on Chrom that some may deem scummy (misrepresenting facts, leaping to conclusions, overblowing alignment-neutral mistakes). However, he also did his usual early game Poke'n'Prod, getting people to clarify their random claims that might otherwise have gone unchecked (very town).
Umasi is incredibly active, and hunting. The logic leaps, confirmation bias, and clumsy attacks aren't really helping the town, however (other than to just provide really obvious pressure). If there was a shade between Green and Black, I'd use it because I think the three options for Umasi are 'Bad Town' 'Good Scum' and 'Good Town That I Just Have Trouble Reading For Whatever Reason'.
Scum Central:
Superfluous has a lot of ground to make up. I don't like people attacking him for his bad policy, but at the end of the day, that's not the only thing going against him. I really disagree with his reads, and that has to account for something:
So the only reason you have super as scum is because you really dont like his reads?
On July 15 2013 07:24 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
@ Umasi
@ Rainbows
We three control this lynch. I think everyone else is entrenched (via either conviction or inactivity). If you agree, we need to establish some things between the three of us.
First, do we all agree that both of the current wagons are acceptable lynch candidates?
@ Umasi
@ Rainbows
We three control this lynch. I think everyone else is entrenched (via either conviction or inactivity). If you agree, we need to establish some things between the three of us.
First, do we all agree that both of the current wagons are acceptable lynch candidates?
The start, also notice "current wagons" recruiting town to control these 2 wagons.
More recruiting but you have to be ok with these 2 wagons.
On July 15 2013 08:31 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
DOUBLE SECRET TRIBUNAL MEETING
Attn: If you are not part of the Incredible Tribunal For Make Great Benefit Lynching Daily, you must stop reading this post now and cover your eyes.
Alright, now that all the legit folks are in here, I think we've gotten some useful information. We've confirmed that we control 4 mobile votes today (this may change in the future). Sponge, Umasi, Rainbows, Nightcat.
In addition, we have two semi-mobile votes in Chromatically (probably) and hzflank (maybe probably), both unconfirmed however. We could go after the scummiest Other. The more I think about Rainbow's 'town-town' claim, the more it seems like a possibility. I'm still leaning Super as scummiest, but we can talk about that after I get thoughts on the following play:
We could totally drop Gotard or Koshi tonight if we wanted.
Koshi is in the 'too scum to be scum' category for me right now. Gonna dive his filter. Gotard is gotard. For right now, I want tribunal thoughts on this play.
DOUBLE SECRET TRIBUNAL MEETING
Attn: If you are not part of the Incredible Tribunal For Make Great Benefit Lynching Daily, you must stop reading this post now and cover your eyes.
Alright, now that all the legit folks are in here, I think we've gotten some useful information. We've confirmed that we control 4 mobile votes today (this may change in the future). Sponge, Umasi, Rainbows, Nightcat.
In addition, we have two semi-mobile votes in Chromatically (probably) and hzflank (maybe probably), both unconfirmed however. We could go after the scummiest Other. The more I think about Rainbow's 'town-town' claim, the more it seems like a possibility. I'm still leaning Super as scummiest, but we can talk about that after I get thoughts on the following play:
We could totally drop Gotard or Koshi tonight if we wanted.
Koshi is in the 'too scum to be scum' category for me right now. Gonna dive his filter. Gotard is gotard. For right now, I want tribunal thoughts on this play.
So this is where you say you are ok with gotard, but you offer no case at all. After this you say ok we will keep the wagons the same, and just read other peoples cases without makeing your own.
On July 16 2013 01:53 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
For the record, the Tribunal is not a persistent entity. It was formed based on the flexible votes for the Day. Tomorrow, if it is necessary, it will be composed of an entirely new set of people (which may or may not include me). The group is valuable because it has vote mobility. It was necessary because Town needed to ensure a lynch.
For the record, the Tribunal is not a persistent entity. It was formed based on the flexible votes for the Day. Tomorrow, if it is necessary, it will be composed of an entirely new set of people (which may or may not include me). The group is valuable because it has vote mobility. It was necessary because Town needed to ensure a lynch.
It wont be necessary, it wasnt necessary. The only time we need to be afraid of vote switches for a no lynch is if there are a majority on one person who is scum and a second scum is on the same wagon, and the second scum jumps off for a mislynch, well guess what we now have 2 almost confirmed scum to lynch at that point. Only time this is really dangerous is if we are at yolo. Scum arent going to make a mislynch on someone not scum, and town better not be stupid enough to let a mislynch through. What you did was recruit people who you made sure were ok with only the current wagons and made sure no one got off. What you did was incredibly scummy here and I dont know why I am the only one who really sees what happened.
On July 16 2013 07:12 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Good analysis, but I don't think Scum tried to get one of their own onto the Tribunal. That would only make sense if it were a Scum-Town lynch. I'm leaning toward thinking Super was Town, which makes yesterday a Town-Town lynch. Why would scum care how we shuffled our votes on the titanic? They're just happy a lynch is happening.
To me, apathy yesterday would be a much stronger correlation with scumminess (a point that can be taken in tandem with your analysis).
Good analysis, but I don't think Scum tried to get one of their own onto the Tribunal. That would only make sense if it were a Scum-Town lynch. I'm leaning toward thinking Super was Town, which makes yesterday a Town-Town lynch. Why would scum care how we shuffled our votes on the titanic? They're just happy a lynch is happening.
To me, apathy yesterday would be a much stronger correlation with scumminess (a point that can be taken in tandem with your analysis).
So now you are saying it was town town lynch? What changed your mind on super?
On July 16 2013 09:55 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Onegu, I'm repeating this now so it will hopefully sink in by the time the lynch comes around.
I believe it is currently the Mafia's plan to take your case and parlay it into a mislynch. Once I refute your case, please don't be overwhelmed by confirmation bias of random people coming out of the woodwork agreeing with you. They are likely scum.
Onegu, I'm repeating this now so it will hopefully sink in by the time the lynch comes around.
I believe it is currently the Mafia's plan to take your case and parlay it into a mislynch. Once I refute your case, please don't be overwhelmed by confirmation bias of random people coming out of the woodwork agreeing with you. They are likely scum.
Already said it but this post is incredibly scummy. PEOPLE OF THE THREAD WHEN ONEGUS CASE IS SOLID AND PEOPLE START TO AGREE THEY ARE SCUM VOTE THEM NOT ME!
On July 16 2013 10:10 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
If you think that's a slip, I guess that's your right. I thought you were a better player, so the more reasonable explanation to me at this point is that you're the SK (omg you slipped because you knew it was SK and not vig after the kill) or scum than town.
Although it looks like Onegu is going to be in full tunnel mode despite the obvious flaws in his train-of-thought during the downtime.
It was unique analysis that I was bringing to the table. I would assume scum would be very active in the early stages of the game, laying plans and setting out to plot our demise. I don't think it's unreasonable to speculate in this manner, especially considering Onegu can confirm that I was right in my read (StiM / Onegu is not scum). At the least it's independent analysis and a null read. I'm actually pretty proud of that point.
Early in the game, someone having vastly disparate reads from you is noticeable. I think that's reasonable suspicion. The second part of your concern doesn't really make sense. Maybe you can elaborate.
I honestly don't know what Onegu is reading. So I'm not allowed to update my reads as people post more content? Onegu is in full confirmation bias mode now.
Here, you look silly because I tried to orchestrate an off-man lurker lynch late in day 1, proving this point completely false.
I didn't know it was a town/town bandwagon, and at the end actually tried to get a Gotard lynch with the votes we'd accumulated. Read the thread. Also, I've openly refused town cred for posts that I don't think deserved it (first one).
Again, Onegu hammering the point that I was holding the town hostage on a town/town lynch when in reality, I tried to get a 3rd party lynch going once we had the votes for it. Umasi and StiM actually put the axe to my idea of moving off the two candidates. And as we know... StiM is actually Gotard...
If you think that's a slip, I guess that's your right. I thought you were a better player, so the more reasonable explanation to me at this point is that you're the SK (omg you slipped because you knew it was SK and not vig after the kill) or scum than town.
Although it looks like Onegu is going to be in full tunnel mode despite the obvious flaws in his train-of-thought during the downtime.
It was unique analysis that I was bringing to the table. I would assume scum would be very active in the early stages of the game, laying plans and setting out to plot our demise. I don't think it's unreasonable to speculate in this manner, especially considering Onegu can confirm that I was right in my read (StiM / Onegu is not scum). At the least it's independent analysis and a null read. I'm actually pretty proud of that point.
Early in the game, someone having vastly disparate reads from you is noticeable. I think that's reasonable suspicion. The second part of your concern doesn't really make sense. Maybe you can elaborate.
I honestly don't know what Onegu is reading. So I'm not allowed to update my reads as people post more content? Onegu is in full confirmation bias mode now.
Here, you look silly because I tried to orchestrate an off-man lurker lynch late in day 1, proving this point completely false.
I didn't know it was a town/town bandwagon, and at the end actually tried to get a Gotard lynch with the votes we'd accumulated. Read the thread. Also, I've openly refused town cred for posts that I don't think deserved it (first one).
Again, Onegu hammering the point that I was holding the town hostage on a town/town lynch when in reality, I tried to get a 3rd party lynch going once we had the votes for it. Umasi and StiM actually put the axe to my idea of moving off the two candidates. And as we know... StiM is actually Gotard...
First point. It is unreasonable as there is no way you can know or guess what is going on im scum qt unless you are scum. And really you are looking at me to confirm I am town?
Second point. No no its not, if someone has different reads then you when the information is still limited isnt in any way scummy or reason for suspicion. Also I was wrong on the second part, you post a little bit on the "right way to scumhunt" which is null not scummy
Third Point. You might be correct I could be biased here.
Fourth Point. No you didnt, you say one time very close to deadline where it would be to dangerous to get 7 vote switchs and risk a mislynch. And you didnt even offer a case on him.
Fifth Point. Again you never make a case, and earlier you make sure when you recruit to get people who are currently ok with the 2 wagons so why would they switch.
