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This is why JarJar is scum in case someone missed it:
JarJar: "gumshoe is mafia for looking my certain posts from only from the scum perspective. He does not address how a townie could not make those posts."
JarJar: "rayn i think is town, but Vivax case is good"
Conclusion: That means Vivax is also (in JarJar's mind) only looking my posts from scum perspective, and does not address the possible town perspective.
Contradiction: Why does Vivax get to do this, or Oats, but not gumshoe? It does not matter that they are accusing me and not him, if you are town you treat every accusation equally, whether or not they are towards you, because you want to delete the bad arguments from the thread asap. Also why am i town if Vivax' case is good? Or if i am town, why is Vivax' case good? wtf?
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On July 01 2013 23:30 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2013 23:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:On July 01 2013 23:16 JarJarDrinks wrote:Someone comment on this exchange: On July 01 2013 11:17 gumshoe wrote:On July 01 2013 11:02 JarJarDrinks wrote:
OK. Rayne's kinda convinced me that he's town over the last few pages. I think he's legit pissed @ oats. I'd prefer not lynching rayn (though if I have to vote him to save myself I obviously will).
I laid out my case against Solstice already. He'd be my preferred lynch today. Wow, flip flop much? Also a willingness to vote for someone you think is good to save yourself... is towny how? On July 01 2013 11:22 JarJarDrinks wrote:On July 01 2013 11:17 gumshoe wrote:On July 01 2013 11:02 JarJarDrinks wrote:
OK. Rayne's kinda convinced me that he's town over the last few pages. I think he's legit pissed @ oats. I'd prefer not lynching rayn (though if I have to vote him to save myself I obviously will).
I laid out my case against Solstice already. He'd be my preferred lynch today. Wow, flip flop much? Also a willingness to vote for someone you think is good to save yourself... is towny how? Is this a serious question? Because I know for a fact that I am town. If I get lynched, the town is definately 100% losing a townie. On July 01 2013 11:24 JarJarDrinks wrote:
I mean, I don't even understand how you can ask that? Are you saying that you'd be willing to stick your head in a noose if it would save someone that you have a town read on? On July 01 2013 11:32 gumshoe wrote:On July 01 2013 11:24 JarJarDrinks wrote:
I mean, I don't even understand how you can ask that? Are you saying that you'd be willing to stick your head in a noose if it would save someone that you have a town read on? My point is you dont sound like your in it to find scum or help town at this point, your just trying to not piss people off and survive the day. And honestly do you think I can treat the old "I'm town so towns gonna get hurt when I die" with any value whatsoever? On July 01 2013 11:51 JarJarDrinks wrote:On July 01 2013 11:32 gumshoe wrote:On July 01 2013 11:24 JarJarDrinks wrote:
I mean, I don't even understand how you can ask that? Are you saying that you'd be willing to stick your head in a noose if it would save someone that you have a town read on? My point is you dont sound like your in it to find scum or help town at this point, your just trying to not piss people off and survive the day. No, that wasn't your point. You asked me how it was townish to be willing to vote someone that I had a townread on to save myself. You were not saying or even implying anything about me not pissing people off. You jumped on a statement I made and tried to call it scummy which it wasn't @ all. Which you are straight up admitting by not answering my question. And honestly do you think I can treat the old "I'm town so towns gonna get hurt when I die" with any value whatsoever? And then here you try to twist it around like I'm trying to use it to make myself seem more town when YOU'RE the one who asked the question. How is this not scummy as hell? He jumps on me for saying something. He then basically admits that he'd do the exact same thing in my situation and tries to turn the whole exchange around. gumshoe is saying "why don't you find mafia or convince the town your scumread is mafia instead of saying i'll vote for rayn if it's gonna be close". Of course you are going to vote for me in that situation, there is no need to say that, everyone knows you'll do so. Huh? Did you read what he wrote? If everyone knows that then why would he say "Also a willingness to vote for someone you think is good to save yourself... is towny how?" He's saying that doing so makes me scummy. How can you read what he's saying any other way?
Of course it makes you scummy. As town you would say "i don't want to lynch rayn because i have a town read on him, therefore both of the suspects are probably town and we should lynch X because of Y".
You are basically saying "i don't want to die, but i also don't want to do anything about it so i'll tell now that i will vote for rayn in the end, just that you know".
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Okay you are clearly unable to understand my thought process so it's useless to discuss the same things over and over again.
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JJD: But why was it a reason for him to be mafia?
Vivax: You saying i have not asked Fuba to comment on JarJar/WoS is a straight out lie. Why are you lieing?
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I wanna lynch WoS unless counter-claim.
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Or Fuba, whoever of those talks less shit before PC.
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On July 01 2013 23:52 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +
WaveofShadow:
Useless. Even says he will be useless. Why not say something useful instead? Continues being useless, like having voted Stutters and what's the follow up? He does not try to find out his scumbuddies, he doesn't question him in any way. Actually, he does not question anyone in any way. If JarJar is somehow town WoS is sure scum by trying to avoid attention after called out. Who is scum WoS and why? What are your thoughts on Vivax/JarJar/Fuba?
Sick case. Lynching people for being useless after having claimed to be busy. I have a better idea, we lynch you.
No you are not, you are way scummy than i am. You are lying.
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Don't worry JJD, i don't think you are scum unless there is a counter-claim. But what gumshoe said actually made sense.
Wanna kill WoS or Fuba, or who do you prefer?
I don't think your case on Solstice is good, all he did was ask about scummy behaviour in thread. Do you think Solstice would defend me when the lynch is between me/you? What would he gain as scum from it?
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On July 01 2013 23:59 Vivax wrote:
I bet Rayn would wet his pants if he had to claim his name.
Not really, would you?
Actually i'm in for mass-claim. :D
Let's see which side gets the best of it. I can claim first if Fuba - WoS - you are the next.
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Blues do not mean shit. It's all about scumhunting.
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##Unvote:
Vote: WaveofShadow
Time to start posting something.
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The point is Fuba, if i had been miller i would have done just what marv did, i would have not claimed my role name in case some scum wants to claim miller aswell. If i was scum i would never ever claim miller in fear of that someone claims and i have to contest them in "who tells their rolename first" which could result in 50% outright chance of me being outed.
The way marv claimed makes perfect sense to me if he is town. The way marv claimed makes zero sense to me as scum, because i would never myself claim as scum, and that's why i think marv is town.
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On July 02 2013 01:48 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 01:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The point is Fuba, if i had been miller i would have done just what marv did, i would have not claimed my role name in case some scum wants to claim miller aswell. If i was scum i would never ever claim miller in fear of that someone claims and i have to contest them in "who tells their rolename first" which could result in 50% outright chance of me being outed.
The way marv claimed makes perfect sense to me if he is town. The way marv claimed makes zero sense to me as scum, because i would never myself claim as scum, and that's why i think marv is town. 40 % chance of there being counterclaimed. 50 % chance of having to say your name last and picking the one you want. 40/100 * 50/100 = 2000 /10000 = 1/5 chance of the claim failing like you say. If anything the other rolename makes it easier coz you can claim to be the other miller.
I don't know what do you mean with the probabilities but i try to say what i think compared to a normal, similar sized semi-open setup:
- The fact that the setup introduces 2 different millers means for me that there could be one miller, that's highly likely, probably not 2 cos that would be scum nightmare. Maybe 0, but highly unlike.
- Now, if i was mafia, what does that mean to me? If i fakeclaim miller, this is what happens. I get probably cc'd. What happens next? People start talking about who should claim their role-name first. It puts high pressure on me + the townie to prove our towniness compared to only each other. I am at a bad spot, obviously, as i am mafia and he is town. I MUST accuse him somehow of being mafia, what if i am not able to? If i am not able to, and need to claim first, i have a 50% chance of getting insta-outed.
- Even if i do not get insta-outed, i am at best null.
Now if we compare this to a normal game with as many people as here where we know there are 0-2 self aware millers, i really do not it's easier to get away with a miller claim here.
Fact of the matter, marv told you he fakeclaimed in another game. You didn't care.
Yes, i did not. The setup is different so i did not care. I don't waste time in figuring what he was thinking there, because i know it makes no sense for scum to fakeclaim in this setup we are playing right here. That being said i am not familiar with C9++ setup and i don't know how it randoms the roles. I also skimmed through the game and saw that scum lost, so i do not think the claim paid off, regardless of if the claim did/did not keep marv/yamato alive longer than they should be without it.
Fact of the matter, you were hostile towards miller claims in Roulette.
No i wasn't. It was in Carnival Cruise and LXI.
Carnival Cruise was 21 players, LXI was 25 (if i remember correctly).
- It's already expected there are millers, self-aware, or unself-aware (which also helps mafia fakeclaiming).
- It's not expected that there is only one miller as there are many players.
- The number of millers depends on the number of cops (balancewise). We did not know how many cops there are, and we would not know until much later into the game.
- The game setup and the situation is in the first place entirely different compared to this game, and i don't really understand how you all fail to see that.
And you want to tell us that you were acting all differently than in Roulette just cause here you can have two different millers with two different names?[/QUOTE]
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And you want to tell us that you were acting all differently than in Roulette just cause here you can have two different millers with two different names?
Basically yes. and what i said before.
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I gotta go now and i will be around near the deadline.
I don't want to claim my rolename, because i am fairly confident i can find scum and have already done so.
I'm really interested in seeing what fuba has to say. Ask him about WoS. I still don't want to lynch Vivax, he has shown some interest in looking into other people than me aswell, and he is asking good questions. I'm going to take a relook into Lazer if i am able to when i get back, because i just realized something. scum have fucking 2 KP. That makes sense in a way that it doesn't really matter which townie they lynch on D1 if the town is enough on the wrong track, because they can get rid of 2 during the night. His defence on me makes sense from scum PoV aswell..
I think our best bet for scum lynches today are WoS/Fuba/Lazer. I still don't think Stutters qualifies as a good lynch because he was trying to divert the attention from rayn-miller-discussion into other things when he would have no need to do so as mafia.
cya in a couple of hours.
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Yeah, Lazer is probably scum. I'm okay with murdering him.
Addition to Vivax' case (actually i think Vivax talked about it earlier, but just to clarify), Lazer says this:
Lazer: "marv did not claim his role name"
Lazer: "marv is probably town"
Vivax: "marv did not claim his role name, that's pretty scummy"
Lazer: "Good point!"
Now how does this make sense?
I don't like the fact that Lazer is not even trying to push Vayne lynch as he has seemingly been suspicious of him all the game because "noone else would vote for him anyways". Not even question him in any way.
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WoS & Fuba, wanna kill Lazer?
It really bothers me that Fuba, despite being asked multiple times, fails to comment on WoS.
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I also don't like the fact that first Fuba says he understands why i think marv is town, but when Vivax makes his case on me he suddenly goes "oh yeah, those are good points, you can't think like that as town". Vivax presents an alternative thought process for me. Fuba has agreed it's possible that i have town!reasons for thinking marv is town, but suddenly the town!reasons that were there exist no more.
What do you think about what i just said Vivax?
At least i would never do that as town. If i have formed a read on someone for some reason i just don't drop those reasons instantly when someone gives an alternative read until something radical happens, and thread sentiment changing to think i am scum does not count, because that could be scum motivated.
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On July 02 2013 04:37 marvellosity wrote:
Day finishes in 1h 23 or so?
yes
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Fuck, i'm really torn between Lazer and Fuba right now. I doubt we get anything out from WoS, and i don't know what to think about that.
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EPT
