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SMcCoy
228 Posts
 McGann, do you feel ostracized? Could you expand on this one, I don't really get what you're trying to convey. I don't want to lynch JP because take a look at the post after I ask him what happens if tennant is town and trout is scum, where does he look the next day. He in no certain terms says he's coming after me: Someone who added close to nothing to the dr.t lynch and who called the trout lynch a policy. | ||
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A McGann
81 Posts
I'd feel more confident in the read on HW if Trout would make his alignment more apparent. The entire case hinges on Trout being town. If HW was given the choice of bussing Dr.T, who flipped goon, and Trout, who could be anything, then bussing the goon under suspicion is the obvious choice, making his day 1 vote look much less town. I'll give him town for now with a caveat of 'Ill come back here later with more information'. | ||
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A McGann
81 Posts
On June 04 2013 01:55 SMcCoy wrote: lol McGann, do you feel ostracized? Could you expand on this one, I don't really get what you're trying to convey. Sure. JPertwee posted this post: On May 31 2013 23:15 JPertwee wrote: McGann, I'm seriously impressed that you can call Troughton a "policy" lynch, when it's quite clearly not a policy lynch. I don't want to lynch him because he's role playing, I don't want to lynch him because he's lurking, I want to lynch him because he's scum who already tipped his hand. Calling me out for calling it a policy lynch. I'd dispute that I called it that, but whatever, inconsequential. I then post this, somewhat warming up to his way of thinking, also trying to get a better insight into him: On May 31 2013 23:32 A McGann wrote: Alright, I respect that. Well thought-out. What I would like from you is assuming we lynch Trout today, he flips scum, where do you look tomorrow? Obviously this is going to be subject to change from how D1 finishes, but work with what you have now. His response is: On May 31 2013 23:58 JPertwee wrote: Well, first thing is looking into Tennant more, and deciding if it was indeed a bus. If I don't think it is, then the plan from that point forward is looking into those who sheeped the case on Tennant, but didn't add to it. If I don't think there's anything to be found in there, then it's looking into those who sheeped and only added a little. And if there's nothing in there again, looking at the people who really pushed his case. Right now the most suspicious people (assuming Tennant is town, and Troughton has flipped scum) are anyone who referred to Troughton as a policy lynch (trying to defend Troughton without actually defending the case), especially if they were sheeping the Tennant case without adding anything, or adding very little. Saying "If Trout is scum and Dr.T is town, i'm coming after YOU", since I'm one of the few (only?) that fit his criteria of adding very little to the Dr.T lynch and in his mind referred to Trout as a policy. If he was scum with Dr.T, I feel like he wouldn't be so quick to alienate someone that may have been swayed into swinging their vote into his favour if he was truly desperate to save his teammate. Maybe he was just trying to scare me into voting with him? I'm not sure. | ||
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A McGann
81 Posts
I would not tell the first guy that starts buddying me that I was going to kill him at my nearest convenience if I had the chance. | ||
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SMcCoy
228 Posts
JP nevermind one of my questions. While rereading I saw you actually did comment further on HW, so scrap that one. McGann, consider that it could as well have been acting. All that pre-flip connection talk is always a nice excuse to write tons and tons of fluff. What I found especially scummy was the Troughton town -> DrT town reasoning, for the simple reason that he was using a 3 minute pause between post and vote to create all that scenario. The reason I misunderstood what he meant is cause I wouldn't even have thought of that worthy of consideration, so I thought he was alluding to the post where DrT is the first to call Trout out for not commenting on him. JP skipped on all the points pointing to DrT being scum to justify the Troughton lynch over his lynch based on a 3 minute gap between posts, and that after agreeing that DrT had a fair chance of being scum. If he really, genuinely thought that then he would have been able to weigh in the pro's against that needle in a haystack of con. | ||
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A McGann
81 Posts
Yes, I had considered that he was just implying something that he knew he would never have to come through on, its just not the move I would have made in that position, so I find it harder to analyse. I still maintain that there is at least one scum somewhere in TheDavis, JPertwee and PTroughton2, and that todays lynch should be one of them. TheNewDavis called me tunnelled, which honestly just pissed me off and made me even less objective, so I default to your read here, for now. JPertwee was the leader of what looks to be the obvious counterwagon on day 1, yet some of his play gives me pause to wanting to hang him. PTrout will be the first person I go after if JPertwee flips town, I hope what the replacement has to say is just so blindingly town that it melts my eyeballs right out of my skull, to put some of my concerns to rest. | ||
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PTroughton2
82 Posts
On June 03 2013 18:00 TheDavison wrote: Mr. PT2000, If I may direct some of your energy towards the below. PT2000. A.McGann provided an excellent take on Eccleston here. (1) Once you have had a chance to assimilate, let us know if your opinion has changed. + Show Spoiler [*Snip*] + MSmith had a really nice conversation starter and also pointed out what struck me immediately about Ecc as I began to read the thread, started with a green read on MSmith and I don't really recall much else sticking out during the rest of the day. maybe I'm just too sleepy to remember or maybe there's something there to look at. Here's where my original read stemmed from: I'd be careful. Baker1986 might be jealous of the great polishing job you just gave to SMcCoy. (2) What I would like to know is your motivation for raising Baker as an item of discussion instead of a hot potato like JPertwee? This is exacerbated by the below. (3) Yes, please share the JP read. Quick responses, just sitting down to catch up. 1) Will do; not sure if I want to fully read the game again or just start with the filter, but I think re-reading is going to be the way to go. I'll be around as I catch up and take notes. 2) The reason for bringing this up is that presumably McCoy has at least a null or perhaps town-leaning read on Baker at this point. The overt willingness from Baker to sheep McCoy is suspicious to me because he's enabled to sheep McCoy BECAUSE of McCoy's town read on him. If Baker is playing a magnificent early scum game in which he's in the town leadership's good graces, he can a) let his activity drop off as someone in the thread is speaking for him and b) absolve himself of blame for any mislynches. I wrote that post tired after a quick read-through, but that idea developed in my mind as I was catching up for the first time and I wanted to make a note of it so you knew where I was headed. Need to see how Baker has been participating in the mean time. Granted, if I recall correctly he said this very recently, perhaps during the night? I'll have a better-informed read of Baker when I'm finished re-reading. 3) It's in the pipeline. | ||
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PTroughton2
82 Posts
On May 29 2013 23:44 Baker1986 wrote: Also McCoy confirmed for smartest guy in thread, I'll sheep him. At this stage of the game, it makes little sense to say that you are willing to sheep McCoy. McCoy could have been wrong (thought I doubt it since I share both a town read on him and his suspicions of Eccleston by this point of the game) and giving him another vote by proxy isn't quite scummy but it is... suspect. McCoy is at that point focusing in on Eccleston, and Baker is in a mild manner in the thread where he starts with a not-certain town read on McCoy to McCoy is the smartest dude in the thread. This is all centered around the events of discussing Eccleston, particularly this post occurs that gives Baker a 100% town read on McCoy: On May 29 2013 23:30 SMcCoy wrote: [PT2000 note: (Smith in the above sentence was EBWOP'd to Ecclestone)] Yes. He started by criticizing others for bringing up a topic he deemed unworthy of discussion, when he could have created one himself. Then he proceeded to ask a rather useless question, showing something which is definitely ambiguous, but without showing his thought process. This brings me back to my current attackers. I find it hard to believe that they would truly believe my post was ambiguous, while skipping on this post by Ecclestone. We both express two possible options for the people we speak of, but while I lay out my reasoning, Ecclestone doesn't. This looks suspicious and might imply that these subjects are linked to each other for their selectivity, speaking of DrTennant here who brought the so called wishy-washy up first. It seems that Baker comes to the conclusion that the chainsaw defense of Ecc by DrT means both of them are probably scum. If Ecc flips mafia, there's no way in hell Baker is mafia. No way. He's willing to hand off his vote to his strongest town read and calls out a rather obvious scum pair in the thread and if he's right, that's just too gutsy for hours into day one. Baker is town, or he's got brass ones. I take back my suspicions. Or do you disagree that this would make him town? Just too far out for him to be potentially bussing his entire team when he presumably has the ability and time to steer things away so early in the game. The counter point to that is that Baker WANTS the two to be linked together, since DrT is well on his way to a lynch and not doing much good for himself trying to change that. Therefore by linking up with McCoy he's not at the forefront of a push that will lynch his entire team but potentially at least trading one clearly scummy teammate for a very lynchable theoretical-town-Ecc. Davison this sort of ties in to your request to read the McGann case not that long ago because it's closely tied into Eccleston at the moment, at least for me. On June 03 2013 13:34 A McGann wrote: Nope. I do not like this Eccleston lynch that is forming. You think he's scum after this post: Look at the time this is posted on Page 8. The voting is: DrT(3): McCoy, Baker, Msmith Hurndall(2): Ptrout, Thedavis Ptrout(4): Tom, Jpertwee, DrT, Hrundall Now examine this post with the information that DrT is scum and pretend that you're Eccleston, also scum. "Hey guys, I think lynching the leading counterwagon to my teammate would be extremely unwise at this point because he's just as likely to be town." Now, I know Msmith already touched on this and came to the conclusion that Eccleston tried to back out of this read later, but I really do believe Eccleston was just overthinking it. Why would he have made the original post in the first place? The Ptrout wagon was picking up steam and leading at this point (4-3), bussing here is exceptionally premature as DrT was not leading the vote count, why would you start discrediting your teammates only chance at survival when he wasn't even close to doomed? If he WAS going to bus here, why wouldn't he just slam his vote down on DrT in the same post and make it official and be on the wagon sooner. Eccleston held himself back from lynching my slot and that gives him some town credit, especially in the dichotomy of lynching someone who is very obviously scummy and having the out of voting the inactive player. The only time this makes no sense is if my slot is scum with Eccleston, so presumably at P18 of the thread McGann is waiting for hear from my slot to make a decision on its alignment and hasn't taken the original player's sole contribution to the game as the end-all for discussion about PT2. This is interesting. I will think about it as I'm continue to catch up. As a note, It also comes full circle to JP, and this isn't a complete case but something to note, that JP was one of the few who didn't have an immediate scum read on DrT, but rather understood where he was coming from, which is something I want to take a deeper look at when I'm finished with this round of notes. More on this later, back to re-reading. | ||
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JPertwee
27 Posts
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HartnellWill
40 Posts
On June 04 2013 01:58 A McGann wrote: I cant fault MSmiths analysis of HartnellWill's day 1 actions, as sparse as they are. I'd feel more confident in the read on HW if Trout would make his alignment more apparent. The entire case hinges on Trout being town. If HW was given the choice of bussing Dr.T, who flipped goon, and Trout, who could be anything, then bussing the goon under suspicion is the obvious choice, making his day 1 vote look much less town. I'll give him town for now with a caveat of 'Ill come back here later with more information'. Pooping in here quick to say that this is faulty logic. If Trout is town and DrT is scum and both are equal in votes, as a scum I'd rather push the Trout wagon because it's not worth sheeping the scum if there's a 50-50 chance I can convince people to sheep the town instead. Buh bye. | ||
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TomB4
61 Posts
There's still so few posts...I'd be down to kill JP or HW but with no one posting there's almost no way to tell who's scum and who's just afking as town. | ||
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Baker1986
217 Posts
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A McGann
81 Posts
On June 04 2013 06:48 HartnellWill wrote: Pooping in here quick to say that this is faulty logic. If Trout is town and DrT is scum and both are equal in votes, as a scum I'd rather push the Trout wagon because it's not worth sheeping the scum if there's a 50-50 chance I can convince people to sheep the town instead. Buh bye. This is a case of my brain working faster than my fingers. The point I was trying to express was "If HW was given the choice of bussing Dr.t AND Trout, then the logical choice is bussing Dr.T who is the goon, as Trout could be any mafia role." Why are you only 'pooping' into the thread whenever someone mentions your name? Do something useful. Read filters, give reads. We're apparently about to lynch our medic. | ||
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A McGann
81 Posts
I want to put an idea to you. | ||
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A McGann
81 Posts
On June 04 2013 06:48 HartnellWill wrote: Pooping in here quick to say that this is faulty logic. If Trout is town and DrT is scum and both are equal in votes, as a scum I'd rather push the Trout wagon because it's not worth sheeping the scum if there's a 50-50 chance I can convince people to sheep the town instead. Buh bye. You posted 45 minutes after JPertwee claimed medic and felt no inclination to pass judgement on that statement? Surely you must have seen it, it was the very last post before you wrote yours. Right, screw this. Anyone interested in a late switch to HW? | ||
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TheDavison
157 Posts
Neither msmith or JP received a saved notification. So either scum withheld. Or JP is lying. Whilst I would hate to lynch an uncontested medic claim... I find it really unlikely scum withheld night1. That makes the game so much more difficult to win, especially when they already dropped a goon. I'm sticking with JP, unless someone is able to share more information to aid the equation. | ||
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A McGann
81 Posts
The choices are: Scum withheld, Scum shot at MSmith. IF Scum withheld, then JP is lying. If scum shot at MSmith, he would not know of this, and JP is telling the truth. I also find it unlikely that they withheld with the number of townies that were confirming eachother and grouping up into a block. | ||
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A McGann
81 Posts
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PTroughton2
82 Posts
On June 04 2013 08:17 A McGann wrote: You posted 45 minutes after JPertwee claimed medic and felt no inclination to pass judgement on that statement? Surely you must have seen it, it was the very last post before you wrote yours. Right, screw this. Anyone interested in a late switch to HW? Possibly. I haven't got notes on the full game but I swung into his filter to see what he has produced lately and I was semi-shocked it was this: On June 03 2013 09:51 HartnellWill wrote: I'm just a lurker who made the right vote at the right time. But I suppose I should make some sort of scumhunting effort to support my innocence shouldn't I On June 03 2013 10:24 HartnellWill wrote: This is what I see in the 14 posts of Eccleston's filter. 1 /in post 4 general earlygame banter posts discussing setup, other people's motives, etc. 1 post consisting of very fluffy DrTennant analysis that doesn't actually do anything and looks intentionally drawn out 1 post defending PT2 1 post redacting the post defending PT2 (note that this isn't scummy per se, but the fact that there's no pressure involved and the speculation doesn't do much to advance the game makes this post scummy in context) 1 post of wat 3 one-liners 1 post instasheeping DrT and redacting the post redacting the post defending PT2. Note the flip flops on possibly the strongest read this guy has had all game 1 post soft defending DrT ##Unvote ##Vote: Eccleston Back to the lurker den I'm not sure what attitude to attribute to this, but it reads like "meh better stop lurking for a minute" and then return to the status quo. Despite the fact that he is not really concerned about his thread appearance, as far as I can tell he was never truly a discussion topic D1. On June 01 2013 04:19 HartnellWill wrote: Holy fuck, this game is hard to play without knowing who anybody is. Wait why start a wagon in the middle of the day? Not even justifying that DrT is town, just saying that TomB4 also looks scummy so we should lynch him just for the fun of it? I don't like that direction at all. The bolded is concerning. Smurf game = play town as hell or die, right? So he's aware that he can't bank on his name to save him from his activity level. His main contribution is a case on Eccleston which may or not be correct but he's acting like he's allowed to drop cases and disappear from the resulting discussion which is highly suspect. Before that, a weird push on Davison who I haven't pegged yet due to how Davison sticks to his guns on his own cases which essentially sheeped thread sentiment again, much like his first vote on DrT. Huh. Counter-point? -Doesn't care about his thread image whatsoever, perhaps to his own detriment. There's not caring if you look scummy and then there's being scummy looking on top of it with your few contributions. Perhaps he doesn't truly understand the gravity of his activity level? JP claim: Can't think of a way to verify it, "trust but verify" works for me right now since we don't have a counter-claim. We'll see what happens tonight. | ||
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TheDavison
157 Posts
Hmmm. For me, that changes things. Msmith1 was a valid target. McCoy was too obvious. I'm at work and don't have time to re read JP though... I still hate his wishy washiness in promoting one. Ore lynch target, but pushing the status quo. Hence, currently I'm still sticking to my guns. I.e. this is a ploy. If someone is willing to do the leg work. I will check in 30min to lynch and reassess. Sorry guys. Work is work after all. | ||
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