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On June 07 2013 21:44 fferyllt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 16:40 Onegu wrote:
Ebwop
Say who or what you are thinking dont just fish for ideas. The person I am thinking about is Yavannah. Her posts did get better after I pushed her a little yesterday. As I was driving home last night and thinking about the game I was trying to figure out what it is about her play that still bothers me. And I realized it was the contrast with some of the other players who said they are new to the game. She seems so sure of her town reads.
I dont really have that feeling at this point. Has she said this is her first game? So far people have had some very strong reads and I dont think that makes you scummy. Why would scum want to say strong reads at this point when just sheeping is a better way of hideing.
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On June 07 2013 22:08 Skanjab1s wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 21:52 Spicydinosaur wrote:
I don't think Gotard is scum, just a very newb townie. His posts are completely lacking in self confidence and he gives the minimalist of readings on Xzavier and Umasi. His thoughts can be boiled down to "I'm really confused as to who may be mafia but if I had to take a guess I think its Xzavier or Umasi because i think i saw some sheeping going on." But the thing that makes him townie.... he doesn't change his story when pressed. He defends it, knowing he's in a tight spot. If he were scum I'd expect him to back down or change in some way. But he keeps at it... he's not typing some smartly conceived thought, but his gut reactions. Thats more town indicating than scum. He did backtrack though from his initial post, he initially said that if he had to lynch, it would be between Xzav and Umasi, but after being pressured he said that he doesn't actually want Xzav dead. Then he used that terrible "Well you can't be 100% sure of everyone!" defense to justify him wanting to lynch someone who he had apparently had a townread on. I'm getting more of a newbie scum vibe than a new-townie vibe from him.
His initial post (copied below) doesnt say he would lynch xzavier, just that he thought he was scummy then townie. Thats not a scum read, just an observation. It was only after he was pushed on it that he said he'd vote xzavier.
On June 07 2013 02:25 Gotard wrote:After reading everything twice I've came with conclusion that some of you are far from being newbies like me (or you are just really good at pretending which is even worse if you are aren't townies T_T). All in all after some hardcore analysis (aka reading) I sadly do know nothing  . Xzavier seemed to be a scum (after following Umasi's accusations) but then he had some awesome pro-town posts. What to do!? What to do!?
In my first two games playing I had a few posts that looked like this, thought not as bad as this was, they were similar. I would say that X started off scummy but then started talking like a town.
I also cant help to think that if he was scum, he would be getting excellent advice in the scum chat especially with a coach that would help him get out of this position. I think we can all agree his position and posting hasn't improved much so that rules that out.
I think Gotard is a bad lynch D1 and too easy for everyone to sheep onto.
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On June 07 2013 22:16 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 21:44 fferyllt wrote:On June 07 2013 16:40 Onegu wrote:
Ebwop
Say who or what you are thinking dont just fish for ideas. The person I am thinking about is Yavannah. Her posts did get better after I pushed her a little yesterday. As I was driving home last night and thinking about the game I was trying to figure out what it is about her play that still bothers me. And I realized it was the contrast with some of the other players who said they are new to the game. She seems so sure of her town reads. I dont really have that feeling at this point. Has she said this is her first game? So far people have had some very strong reads and I dont think that makes you scummy. Why would scum want to say strong reads at this point when just sheeping is a better way of hideing.
Onegu I want to pick your brain on something. It seems that fferyllt's problem with Yavannah is that her posts are full of confidence on reads and since this is a newbie game, then that could be only because she's mafia. If that is fferyllt's line of thinking, I believe it shows that fferyllt is town because she is not confident in her reads.
What do you think?
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I have a lot to write
On June 07 2013 14:23 Umasi wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=147475I think we can draw parallels between Gotard and Misder that are not trivial: Ver: Show nested quote +Newer mafia players will try to emphasize their inexperience as a way of overcompensating. Gotard: Show nested quote +After reading everything twice I've came with conclusion that some of you are far from being newbies like me Like, right from the fucking get go. And he acknowledges that he made a mistake (see above), which I take as basically apologizing. Why would he apologize? For holding a contrary read?
Imagine you're playing your first game and then read first few pages after game started. People seem to know really well what they are doing. I had two suspects and this at point and i wanted to share my thoughts. And everyone made a huge deal that i even dared to suspect Xzavier.
And by the way emphasizing inexperience as a way of overcompensating might be used in every multiplayer game. If you think of it imagine you are a townie and you post something that looks scummy for more experienced players. What is your firsts reaction? Because I do apologize when I make a mistake that can hurt not only me but also my team. Problem is that you "wasted" a lot of time investigating me. Now let's go and find a real scum, shall we?
On June 07 2013 21:52 Spicydinosaur wrote:
I don't think Gotard is scum, just a very newb townie. His posts are completely lacking in self confidence and he gives the minimalist of readings on Xzavier and Umasi. His thoughts can be boiled down to "I'm really confused as to who may be mafia but if I had to take a guess I think its Xzavier or Umasi because i think i saw some sheeping going on." But the thing that makes him townie.... he doesn't change his story when pressed. He defends it, knowing he's in a tight spot. If he were scum I'd expect him to back down or change in some way. But he keeps at it... he's not typing some smartly conceived thought, but his gut reactions. Thats more town indicating than scum.
Spicydinosaur you are smart
To Xzavier: You are overreacting. I've never voted to kill you. Umasi was much more suspicious than you. 99% of my posts addressed you because everyone asked to explain myself "why Xzavier". And my reasoning was plain and simple as Spicydinosaur pointed.
On the bright side of life every time I post I get more and more votes! Oh wait a minute... it is not good to get votes in this game 
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@Gotard
Who do you think is scum at this point? Look through filters of people and tells us what you think. But most importantly, EXPLAIN why.
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On June 07 2013 22:24 Spicydinosaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 22:16 Onegu wrote:On June 07 2013 21:44 fferyllt wrote:On June 07 2013 16:40 Onegu wrote:
Ebwop
Say who or what you are thinking dont just fish for ideas. The person I am thinking about is Yavannah. Her posts did get better after I pushed her a little yesterday. As I was driving home last night and thinking about the game I was trying to figure out what it is about her play that still bothers me. And I realized it was the contrast with some of the other players who said they are new to the game. She seems so sure of her town reads. I dont really have that feeling at this point. Has she said this is her first game? So far people have had some very strong reads and I dont think that makes you scummy. Why would scum want to say strong reads at this point when just sheeping is a better way of hideing. Onegu I want to pick your brain on something. It seems that fferyllt's problem with Yavannah is that her posts are full of confidence on reads and since this is a newbie game, then that could be only because she's mafia. If that is fferyllt's line of thinking, I believe it shows that fferyllt is town because she is not confident in her reads. What do you think?
I dont have a problem with someone not being confident in thier reads, what I have a problem with is when someone makes a read then when they see something else they drop thier read and sheep the majority.
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On June 07 2013 22:16 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 21:44 fferyllt wrote:On June 07 2013 16:40 Onegu wrote:
Ebwop
Say who or what you are thinking dont just fish for ideas. The person I am thinking about is Yavannah. Her posts did get better after I pushed her a little yesterday. As I was driving home last night and thinking about the game I was trying to figure out what it is about her play that still bothers me. And I realized it was the contrast with some of the other players who said they are new to the game. She seems so sure of her town reads. I dont really have that feeling at this point. Has she said this is her first game? So far people have had some very strong reads and I dont think that makes you scummy. Why would scum want to say strong reads at this point when just sheeping is a better way of hideing.
She did say this is her first game.
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On June 07 2013 22:42 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 22:24 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 07 2013 22:16 Onegu wrote:On June 07 2013 21:44 fferyllt wrote:On June 07 2013 16:40 Onegu wrote:
Ebwop
Say who or what you are thinking dont just fish for ideas. The person I am thinking about is Yavannah. Her posts did get better after I pushed her a little yesterday. As I was driving home last night and thinking about the game I was trying to figure out what it is about her play that still bothers me. And I realized it was the contrast with some of the other players who said they are new to the game. She seems so sure of her town reads. I dont really have that feeling at this point. Has she said this is her first game? So far people have had some very strong reads and I dont think that makes you scummy. Why would scum want to say strong reads at this point when just sheeping is a better way of hideing. Onegu I want to pick your brain on something. It seems that fferyllt's problem with Yavannah is that her posts are full of confidence on reads and since this is a newbie game, then that could be only because she's mafia. If that is fferyllt's line of thinking, I believe it shows that fferyllt is town because she is not confident in her reads. What do you think? I dont have a problem with someone not being confident in thier reads, what I have a problem with is when someone makes a read then when they see something else they drop thier read and sheep the majority.
Doesn't that seem a bit contradictory? fferyllt had a read but wasn't confident, then switched it something else. Or are you saying a non-confident read is ok as long as you dont jump ship for the majority the first chance you get?
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On June 07 2013 22:42 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 22:24 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 07 2013 22:16 Onegu wrote:On June 07 2013 21:44 fferyllt wrote:On June 07 2013 16:40 Onegu wrote:
Ebwop
Say who or what you are thinking dont just fish for ideas. The person I am thinking about is Yavannah. Her posts did get better after I pushed her a little yesterday. As I was driving home last night and thinking about the game I was trying to figure out what it is about her play that still bothers me. And I realized it was the contrast with some of the other players who said they are new to the game. She seems so sure of her town reads. I dont really have that feeling at this point. Has she said this is her first game? So far people have had some very strong reads and I dont think that makes you scummy. Why would scum want to say strong reads at this point when just sheeping is a better way of hideing. Onegu I want to pick your brain on something. It seems that fferyllt's problem with Yavannah is that her posts are full of confidence on reads and since this is a newbie game, then that could be only because she's mafia. If that is fferyllt's line of thinking, I believe it shows that fferyllt is town because she is not confident in her reads. What do you think? I dont have a problem with someone not being confident in thier reads, what I have a problem with is when someone makes a read then when they see something else they drop thier read and sheep the majority.
Are you saying that I'm doing this?
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On June 07 2013 22:51 fferyllt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 22:42 Onegu wrote:On June 07 2013 22:24 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 07 2013 22:16 Onegu wrote:On June 07 2013 21:44 fferyllt wrote:On June 07 2013 16:40 Onegu wrote:
Ebwop
Say who or what you are thinking dont just fish for ideas. The person I am thinking about is Yavannah. Her posts did get better after I pushed her a little yesterday. As I was driving home last night and thinking about the game I was trying to figure out what it is about her play that still bothers me. And I realized it was the contrast with some of the other players who said they are new to the game. She seems so sure of her town reads. I dont really have that feeling at this point. Has she said this is her first game? So far people have had some very strong reads and I dont think that makes you scummy. Why would scum want to say strong reads at this point when just sheeping is a better way of hideing. Onegu I want to pick your brain on something. It seems that fferyllt's problem with Yavannah is that her posts are full of confidence on reads and since this is a newbie game, then that could be only because she's mafia. If that is fferyllt's line of thinking, I believe it shows that fferyllt is town because she is not confident in her reads. What do you think? I dont have a problem with someone not being confident in thier reads, what I have a problem with is when someone makes a read then when they see something else they drop thier read and sheep the majority. Are you saying that I'm doing this?
No I am not saying you are doing this you have kept to your read and not just jump on gotard. If you jump ship without good reason and just say xzav is doing so Ill drop it.
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@fferyllt since you are around... who are your scum reads?
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On June 07 2013 23:03 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 22:51 fferyllt wrote:On June 07 2013 22:42 Onegu wrote:On June 07 2013 22:24 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 07 2013 22:16 Onegu wrote:On June 07 2013 21:44 fferyllt wrote:On June 07 2013 16:40 Onegu wrote:
Ebwop
Say who or what you are thinking dont just fish for ideas. The person I am thinking about is Yavannah. Her posts did get better after I pushed her a little yesterday. As I was driving home last night and thinking about the game I was trying to figure out what it is about her play that still bothers me. And I realized it was the contrast with some of the other players who said they are new to the game. She seems so sure of her town reads. I dont really have that feeling at this point. Has she said this is her first game? So far people have had some very strong reads and I dont think that makes you scummy. Why would scum want to say strong reads at this point when just sheeping is a better way of hideing. Onegu I want to pick your brain on something. It seems that fferyllt's problem with Yavannah is that her posts are full of confidence on reads and since this is a newbie game, then that could be only because she's mafia. If that is fferyllt's line of thinking, I believe it shows that fferyllt is town because she is not confident in her reads. What do you think? I dont have a problem with someone not being confident in thier reads, what I have a problem with is when someone makes a read then when they see something else they drop thier read and sheep the majority. Are you saying that I'm doing this? No I am not saying you are doing this you have kept to your read and not just jump on gotard. If you jump ship without good reason and just say xzav is doing so Ill drop it.
I am way more likely to vote firere today than Gotard.
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On June 07 2013 23:04 Spicydinosaur wrote:
@fferyllt since you are around... who are your scum reads?
Yavannah and Firere.
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On June 07 2013 23:05 fferyllt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 23:03 Onegu wrote:On June 07 2013 22:51 fferyllt wrote:On June 07 2013 22:42 Onegu wrote:On June 07 2013 22:24 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 07 2013 22:16 Onegu wrote:On June 07 2013 21:44 fferyllt wrote:On June 07 2013 16:40 Onegu wrote:
Ebwop
Say who or what you are thinking dont just fish for ideas. The person I am thinking about is Yavannah. Her posts did get better after I pushed her a little yesterday. As I was driving home last night and thinking about the game I was trying to figure out what it is about her play that still bothers me. And I realized it was the contrast with some of the other players who said they are new to the game. She seems so sure of her town reads. I dont really have that feeling at this point. Has she said this is her first game? So far people have had some very strong reads and I dont think that makes you scummy. Why would scum want to say strong reads at this point when just sheeping is a better way of hideing. Onegu I want to pick your brain on something. It seems that fferyllt's problem with Yavannah is that her posts are full of confidence on reads and since this is a newbie game, then that could be only because she's mafia. If that is fferyllt's line of thinking, I believe it shows that fferyllt is town because she is not confident in her reads. What do you think? I dont have a problem with someone not being confident in thier reads, what I have a problem with is when someone makes a read then when they see something else they drop thier read and sheep the majority. Are you saying that I'm doing this? No I am not saying you are doing this you have kept to your read and not just jump on gotard. If you jump ship without good reason and just say xzav is doing so Ill drop it. I am way more likely to vote firere today than Gotard.
that is what I am saying I feel town because you arent just sheeping.
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Well, Meow, I kinda need to sleep sometimes, Last night I posted that and then went to sleep, only waking up a few minutes ago.
On June 07 2013 14:28 Firere345 wrote:
Fortunately, tonight was my last night of having prior commitments
On June 07 2013 05:40 Gotard wrote:
If i had to vote now i would lynch you or Xzavier but a the same time it's way too risky to kill the most active (potential) allies.
What I want to know is why your top two scum reads are also the two you saw as potential allies, and also why at that point I hadn't made the list  . You kinda disrupted the flow of the thread with your post suspecting Xzav, which in itself isn't a scum indication if you can defend it. But unfortunately your only defense of it I've seen is
On June 07 2013 07:01 Gotard wrote:It's relevant if someone rushes to join someone else's accusations it might mean that he isn't townie. Few pro town posts during first day dosn't mean that guy is innocence. You can never be 100% sure who is who and you can throw random votes on people if you have even one small reason. I know I've made some big mistakes and I hope you won't lynch me today
Few P-T posts during first day?
What about this one?
+ Show Spoiler +On June 06 2013 11:59 Xzavier wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 11:45 iVLosK! wrote:On June 06 2013 11:44 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 06 2013 11:34 Xzavier wrote:
Also the reason im for lynching a lurker night one is even if it is a noobie who realized they didnt have the time for it, then they arnt ever gonna be useful for us in this game, so it still would be more productive than a No-lynch.
I disagree with this. I would rather have a no lynch than to lynch someone i think is a lurking town. We should only be lynching scum, not bad town. I don't see how lynching a townie lurker is more productive. If you think vote for someone because you think he's a lurking scum... fine, but a lurking town vote doesn't help I agree with this. The least productive thing is doing nothing. It contributes nothing to the town cause. The more people you leave in the game, the less likely you are to lynch a mafia. The longer you let them kill people. The ONLY day you can even consider a no-lynch is day1. And I'm opposed to it because the fewer lurkers in the game, the better it is for town. That's a fact. The more you make people post, the more information/reads you can get on them. If people aren't posting then mafia has no reason to. They can sit back and kill us 1 at a time. Thats my reasoning behind lynching a lurker. obviously this isnt random lurker with least number of posts gets lynched. and of course they have every chance to defend themselves. and if they defend themself/start contributing, we move suspicion elsewhere. And no shit you try to kill the scummiest one. This much make sense?
Or this one?
+ Show Spoiler +On June 06 2013 12:04 Xzavier wrote:Show nested quote +A townie is still a townie and still counts towards the town count, regardless of how invested they are in the game. Okay, i should refresh the page before i post. Vloski thats the most suspicious thing iv seen so far. There are atleast 3 types of townies: Useful ones who create content Inactive ones who do nothing to help prevent impending doom Counterproductive ones who spam the thread then bandwagon votes Useful ones win the game, inactive ones dont. Their is a difference between townies. However you dont need to post all the time or even often, Quality over Quantity, but if your posting little and their is no new information to gain from it, that is pretty scummy. If your posting little and when you do post its with an ironclad case (which was the other way of playing this game that i was considering) Is also acceptable, as this doesnt make you a high profile target for the mafia, and benefits the town.
##Vote: Gotard
+ Show Spoiler +I'm leaving now, be back in 6 or 7 hours
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I also dont like how skan has jumped votes multiple times, at least iV has given strong reasons.
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On June 07 2013 23:12 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 23:05 fferyllt wrote:On June 07 2013 23:03 Onegu wrote:On June 07 2013 22:51 fferyllt wrote:On June 07 2013 22:42 Onegu wrote:On June 07 2013 22:24 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 07 2013 22:16 Onegu wrote:On June 07 2013 21:44 fferyllt wrote:On June 07 2013 16:40 Onegu wrote:
Ebwop
Say who or what you are thinking dont just fish for ideas. The person I am thinking about is Yavannah. Her posts did get better after I pushed her a little yesterday. As I was driving home last night and thinking about the game I was trying to figure out what it is about her play that still bothers me. And I realized it was the contrast with some of the other players who said they are new to the game. She seems so sure of her town reads. I dont really have that feeling at this point. Has she said this is her first game? So far people have had some very strong reads and I dont think that makes you scummy. Why would scum want to say strong reads at this point when just sheeping is a better way of hideing. Onegu I want to pick your brain on something. It seems that fferyllt's problem with Yavannah is that her posts are full of confidence on reads and since this is a newbie game, then that could be only because she's mafia. If that is fferyllt's line of thinking, I believe it shows that fferyllt is town because she is not confident in her reads. What do you think? I dont have a problem with someone not being confident in thier reads, what I have a problem with is when someone makes a read then when they see something else they drop thier read and sheep the majority. Are you saying that I'm doing this? No I am not saying you are doing this you have kept to your read and not just jump on gotard. If you jump ship without good reason and just say xzav is doing so Ill drop it. I am way more likely to vote firere today than Gotard. that is what I am saying I feel town because you arent just sheeping.
IMO there is a place in mafia for sheeping, and I occasionally find myself in that place.
Day 1 of a game with a bunch of players I don't know is not the place. When I'm uncertain about my scum reads and have a strong town read on someone whose scumdar I trust, I weigh their reads heavily in deciding my vote.
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Just went through Yavanna's filter and it doesn't look pretty. At the start she's either posting spam or asking others questions. The questions are alright but she has no follow up with them... and that indicates someone posting to look active without really contributing... aka scummy. Later on it turns into full blown sheeping of Xzav. She really only has 1 good post about Umasi at the end. Not sure right now if this is indicative of a new player finding her stride or calculated scum. Going to take a wait and see on her for D2.
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On June 07 2013 23:22 Firere345 wrote:Well, Meow, I kinda need to sleep sometimes, Last night I posted that and then went to sleep, only waking up a few minutes ago. Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 14:28 Firere345 wrote:
Fortunately, tonight was my last night of having prior commitments Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 05:40 Gotard wrote:
If i had to vote now i would lynch you or Xzavier but a the same time it's way too risky to kill the most active (potential) allies. What I want to know is why your top two scum reads are also the two you saw as potential allies, and also why at that point I hadn't made the list . You kinda disrupted the flow of the thread with your post suspecting Xzav, which in itself isn't a scum indication if you can defend it. But unfortunately your only defense of it I've seen is Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 07:01 Gotard wrote:It's relevant if someone rushes to join someone else's accusations it might mean that he isn't townie. Few pro town posts during first day dosn't mean that guy is innocence. You can never be 100% sure who is who and you can throw random votes on people if you have even one small reason. I know I've made some big mistakes and I hope you won't lynch me today Few P-T posts during first day? What about this one? + Show Spoiler +On June 06 2013 11:59 Xzavier wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 11:45 iVLosK! wrote:On June 06 2013 11:44 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 06 2013 11:34 Xzavier wrote:
Also the reason im for lynching a lurker night one is even if it is a noobie who realized they didnt have the time for it, then they arnt ever gonna be useful for us in this game, so it still would be more productive than a No-lynch.
I disagree with this. I would rather have a no lynch than to lynch someone i think is a lurking town. We should only be lynching scum, not bad town. I don't see how lynching a townie lurker is more productive. If you think vote for someone because you think he's a lurking scum... fine, but a lurking town vote doesn't help I agree with this. The least productive thing is doing nothing. It contributes nothing to the town cause. The more people you leave in the game, the less likely you are to lynch a mafia. The longer you let them kill people. The ONLY day you can even consider a no-lynch is day1. And I'm opposed to it because the fewer lurkers in the game, the better it is for town. That's a fact. The more you make people post, the more information/reads you can get on them. If people aren't posting then mafia has no reason to. They can sit back and kill us 1 at a time. Thats my reasoning behind lynching a lurker. obviously this isnt random lurker with least number of posts gets lynched. and of course they have every chance to defend themselves. and if they defend themself/start contributing, we move suspicion elsewhere. And no shit you try to kill the scummiest one. This much make sense? Or this one? + Show Spoiler +On June 06 2013 12:04 Xzavier wrote:Show nested quote +A townie is still a townie and still counts towards the town count, regardless of how invested they are in the game. Okay, i should refresh the page before i post. Vloski thats the most suspicious thing iv seen so far. There are atleast 3 types of townies: Useful ones who create content Inactive ones who do nothing to help prevent impending doom Counterproductive ones who spam the thread then bandwagon votes Useful ones win the game, inactive ones dont. Their is a difference between townies. However you dont need to post all the time or even often, Quality over Quantity, but if your posting little and their is no new information to gain from it, that is pretty scummy. If your posting little and when you do post its with an ironclad case (which was the other way of playing this game that i was considering) Is also acceptable, as this doesnt make you a high profile target for the mafia, and benefits the town. I'm leaving now, be back in 6 or 7 hours
I see nothing new here and just a rehash of the arguments that have already been stated by others. There is nothing new of substance here. No reads on other players, just sheeping the current majority. Dropping in once every 12 hours is not being active in this game, especially when your one post has 0 substance to it.
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EPT
