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Just for clarifications sake, I think that Gotard meant to say "a few pro town posts during the first day"
as in, be cautious, compared to telling us he had no pro town posts.
That said, him coming back and saying basically nothing doesn't convince me, especially because he has a very weak defense where he basically says "I'm not scum, let's go catch scum huh?"
And this is my first game too, and people DO seem to know what they're doing, but I'm not going to call myself inferior and apologize for it, before I've even done anything wrong. I'm going to recognize I MAY BE inferior, and be more cautious because of it.
That said, can you explain what mistake you were apologizing for?
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Spicy, I agree that Firerer looks suspicious, because he hasn't posted anything of worth yet, but I think it's okay to give him a bit of time to come contribute. I don't want to be distracted from a Gotard lynch today unless someone posts a super rock solid defense of him.
But if Firere hasn't posted anything of worth by the next lynch period, I'll happily consider him.
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Umasi, I want you to take a step back and look at Gotard's filter and ask yourself "is this something scum would actually do in a game?" Ask yourself what is the reasoning behind it? His posts look awful, but not calculated. Its mostly reactionary and full of self doubt. Does this really fit what a true scum player would do? I've said this before but since he is new and if he were scum, he would definitely be getting advice in scum chat, especially from a coach. There is no indication that he has improved his posts at all.
So what was his plan here? He had none. He had a suspicion because of perceived sheeping and when pressured, said thats who he would vote for but wasn't 100% sure. I also don't think scum would throw him under the bus first day in a newbie game... just doesn't seem smart. It just doesn't make any sense for him to do this as scum. Does it look bad? Yes.... but we are here to find scum, not bad townies.
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EBWOP: The above goes for everyone else voting Gotard. Everyone please take another look at him.
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I'm actually fine with a Firere lynch today too, like what SD said before, that last post is just a rehash of things that have already been said, and the quoting of those pro-town posts had no purpose, other than to make it look like he is contributing.
[quote="Onegu"]I also dont like how skan has jumped votes multiple times, at least iV has given strong reasons.[/quote]
That isn't a scumtell, its a playstyle.
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Sigh fail quotes.
EBWOP: On June 07 2013 23:23 Onegu wrote:
I also dont like how skan has jumped votes multiple times, at least iV has given strong reasons.
That isn't a scumtell, its a playstyle.
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Spicy, I personally really like Gotard as a lynch, because I don't think anyone else has as high of a chance as flipping scum at the moment. I'll reevaluate, and look at some OTHER players, but I honestly believe he is objectively scummy and got in the flow of the conversation because of a god awful entry post. Could this have happened as town?
Sure!
Which is why we can't be a hundred percent positive.
And I do think he could have received help in the scum QT, but I think that absolving someone because they didn't improve over the course of the day is stupid. It's entirely possible that the others in the QT were just /afk while he was around, or that their collective consensus was "lessen your attack on xzav, jeez, that was an awful idea."
As for the coach, they don't try to give direct advice, so possibly he laid out a guideline for gotard to follow, or whatever, it's entirely possible that the coach didn't respond either or he didn't ask the coach.
In general, I think it is wise to ignore possible coach help/scum qt talking. And just because he doesn't have a plan doesn't mean he's town t.t
Rather here, I'm going to link to Ver's guide again
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=147475
Look at misders first posts. What does misders plan look like in his very first post? Well...he basically says nothing, and you can't really discern a plan from it. The difference is, in gotards, he slipped up and we immediately pressured him, giving him little to change the subject off of.
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Is this the strong reasoning that you were speaking about?
On June 07 2013 13:50 iVLosK! wrote:
I like it.
##Unvote
##Vote: Gotard
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On June 08 2013 00:17 Skanjab1s wrote:
I'm actually fine with a Firere lynch today too, like what SD said before, that last post is just a rehash of things that have already been said, and the quoting of those pro-town posts had no purpose, other than to make it look like he is contributing.
[quote="Onegu"]I also dont like how skan has jumped votes multiple times, at least iV has given strong reasons.
That isn't a scumtell, its a playstyle.[/QUOTE]
So what were your reasons?
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On June 08 2013 00:24 Skanjab1s wrote:Is this the strong reasoning that you were speaking about?
He hasent explained the last one but he did the others, I would like a deeper resoning on gotard from.
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Please refrain from actively or passively discussing coaches in the thread. I have seen nothing out of line yet, but this is a reminder.
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On June 08 2013 00:28 Skanjab1s wrote:
Uhh my reasons for what?
For jumping votes 3 times.
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Because that is how I play?
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On June 07 2013 22:41 Spicydinosaur wrote:
@Gotard
Who do you think is scum at this point? Look through filters of people and tells us what you think. But most importantly, EXPLAIN why.
Onegu - 70% Town. Looks like he dosn't like useless discussions and seems pro-town to me.
tE_ - I don't know this guy. Who is he? 
Firere345 - 30% Town. It really seems like he really wants to kll people. If you look at his last questions he wants me to answer good old shit again and again to waste even more time. Do you really want me to quote his pro-town posts when everyone considers him pro town?
StiMaDDicT - "GL&HF!" I'm having fun living on the edge and how about you?
fferyllt - 80% Town. But it might change really fast. I don't see anything really suspicious.
Spicydinosaur - 90% Town. He understands my braindeadness* even after asking for translation
On June 07 2013 06:15 Spicydinosaur wrote:
If someone could translate what the hell Gotard is saying I would be gratefully appreciative.
Gotard - Only true town. Awesome dude! No way he's mafia with those posts! Right!?
Xzavier - 75% Town. He's pressuring me really hard and i don't think he would do that if he was a scum. He's in a spotlight with me and I don't think mafia member would risk that to lynch some newbie townie
Yavanna - ???. I'm confused. A lot of irrelevant posts.
Umasi - 50-50. He writes so much. Time to chill dude! He's like Firere345 on drugs! Trys to find people to lynch exaggerates and accusations. After answering his question i became suspect number one!
On June 07 2013 05:30 Umasi wrote:
Gotard, what's the difference in contributions between you and those two? All I really understand from your first post is that you're new and feel inferior.
I'm new and feel inferior, but have tried to do what I can, even if it's bad!
So say what's on your mind!
On June 07 2013 05:34 Gotard wrote:
Math dosn't lie I have like infinity times more posts.
If i had to vote now i would lynch you or Xzavier but a the same time it's way too risky to kill the most active (potential) allies.
(two posts combined)
Skanjab1s - 40% Town. Jumping with votes like creazy sometimes without really explaining why. And then
On June 07 2013 22:08 Skanjab1s wrote:
He did backtrack though from his initial post, he initially said that if he had to lynch, it would be between Xzav and Umasi, but after being pressured he said that he doesn't actually want Xzav dead.
I expressed my doubts in my first post and then listed him anyway as my 2nd suspect
IvLosK! - 70% Town. Wierd and confusing begining of the game need much more posts from him.
LoneMeow - 75% Town. Town wibe in general but little activity it might be suspicious.
My votes for now (in random order):
-Firere345
-Skanjab1s
-Umasi
Ok 2nd question I will answer
On June 07 2013 23:59 Umasi wrote:
That said, can you explain what mistake you were apologizing for?
Saying that I suspect Xzavier when I was 50-50 about him with just a hunch and not really evidence. Which caused townies to waste their time focusing on me
*I know words like that don't extist
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On June 08 2013 00:32 Skanjab1s wrote:
Because that is how I play?
Anyone else find this scummy
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On June 08 2013 00:42 Onegu wrote:Anyone else find this scummy
lol
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Onegu, I found what iV was doing scummy and it turned out he was just being an asshole.
Gotard, you became suspect number one after xzav posted what I think is a killer case on you.
And a contribution is not the number of posts you have (in which case man you're set over them), it's what you've..wait for it....contributed to the discussion, and you contributed either A nothing or B xzav as a possible lynch, which is straight up counterproductive, because heaven would have to fall on its shoulders if xzav were lynched today.
You were counterproductive, and you haven't yet become productive, and townies aren't "wasting their time on you", because if we found you to be townie, that is not time wasted.
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ebwop: Rather, onegu, finding an excuse of "because that's how I play" scummy is silly, because some people give that as their reasoning, turns out they're town, and don't care enough to talk horrendous amounts like I try to.
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On June 08 2013 00:42 Onegu wrote:Anyone else find this scummy
Not really. I'm null/leaning a little town on Skanjab1 mostly because his play style is not unusual where I learned mafia. The emphasis on casebuilding at TL is more alien to me than moving votes around on the basis of what's happening in the thread.
Although he's not stating reasons why his vote changes, there's a trajectory - someone posts something hinky and his next post is a vote on that person.
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EPT
