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These are all examples of antagonistic, not constructive play.
On May 15 2013 12:26 Oatsmaster wrote:Is this one of your "GREAT TOWN PLAYER" reads? Or a BH read?
He attacks a town read, with a tone that could either be jokey or aggressive, I'm not sure, but it's not constructive.
On May 15 2013 22:13 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2013 19:09 phagga wrote:
Just a few thoughts about mechanics since nothing else is going on right now:
We have three different parameters to distinct the moving of the players:
- Moving Direction
- Moving Speed
- Watching Direction
We have to be really unlucky to not confirm the spot of most players in the first night with this many possible unique combinations. So we should all claim our values for those 3 parameters right before deadline.
Also another host question:
Can two players be on the same spot? If not, what happens when they both move on the same spot? Can a player get on a spot where a statue is? If not, what happens when he tries to do so? why repeat what everyone has said already?
Loaded question.
On May 15 2013 22:21 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2013 22:16 marvellosity wrote:On May 15 2013 22:13 Oatsmaster wrote:On May 15 2013 19:09 phagga wrote:
Just a few thoughts about mechanics since nothing else is going on right now:
We have three different parameters to distinct the moving of the players:
- Moving Direction
- Moving Speed
- Watching Direction
We have to be really unlucky to not confirm the spot of most players in the first night with this many possible unique combinations. So we should all claim our values for those 3 parameters right before deadline.
Also another host question:
Can two players be on the same spot? If not, what happens when they both move on the same spot? Can a player get on a spot where a statue is? If not, what happens when he tries to do so? why repeat what everyone has said already? Why bitch at people if you haven't anything to add yourself, dear?  Trying to be like you dear Reads marv?
Aggressive tone.
He started like this, then his posts started improving a little, he might have started to feel pressured.
I can't neglect that there's also a policy component to my lynch since he started to play this disruptively. I don't want to end up with Oats at LYLO, no offense.
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On May 16 2013 21:34 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 21:19 Vivax wrote:On May 16 2013 21:04 Oatsmaster wrote:On May 16 2013 21:01 Vivax wrote:
@ Phagga
I feel he was needlessly antagonistic, and he didn't seem interested in setup discussion. He is more cooperative now though. ##unvote If your whole reason for voting me is OMGUS, you will have to keep that vote on me brah I didnt actually mean to quote that lol. Why say that you think im not scummy then say Im your top scumspect. hmmmm?
I said you improved your way of interacting with others, asking more useful questions, less loaded ones, less antagonizing.
I suggest you keep it up that way and play as transparently and friendly as possible, we still have enough time, and if I think someone is more worthy of a lynch than you, then I'll not hesitate to make the right choice.
On May 16 2013 20:37 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +That post is so bad that I could see it coming from a townie, actually. I'd rather expect him to do some forced bullshit push, or jump on the bandwagon against me at this point, not apologize and admit that he's got nothing to contribute.
Um nope, mafia are known for posting a good looking/longish post not saying anything cause they dont actually need to scumhunt. That looks a lot like a scum first post after not being there.
Point being that the post does not look designed to look good and is not really longish either.
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On May 16 2013 21:39 marvellosity wrote:
The problem with that Vivax is that it's basically entirely a policy lynch, because you well know Oats does that shit all the time as town.
Suggest a better alternative then. I'm listening.
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We mustn't forget to talk about our moves though. Finding a good lynch target is fine, but not having the angels feed on us is possibly a higher priority than that. This game is won on the board for them.
I'm currently looking at B and J and they are close to each other, they are basically already in a pair, any idea on how they should move ideally?
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What I'm suggesting is a general pattern we should be using to reach the sides quickly as possible or whatever.
Or how we can coordinate our movements to maximize the effectiveness of B and J.
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Marv, you're starting to piss me off. Think about a good strategy instead of talking about "scumslips".
For example, the majority of players is on the left, if you want to reach the sides of the board, what would you do? You would let everyone move left, cause if everyone moves right, logically the majority would reach a position in the middle.
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On May 16 2013 22:12 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 22:09 Vivax wrote:
Marv, you're starting to piss me off. Think about a good strategy instead of talking about "scumslips".
For example, the majority of players is on the left, if you want to reach the sides of the board, what would you do? You would let everyone move left, cause if everyone moves right, logically the majority would reach a position in the middle. You provided the specific example of B and J being together and how they should move optimally. How do you propose we do anything about this when we don't know who we are?
I don't have anything concrete for them, I was trying to start some general musing about strategy.
There might be a pattern to use to maximize the effectiveness of people being close to each other, the movement they make, the direction they face.
And by pattern I mean, something everyone can agree on using, maybe cause there is a constellation on the board that encourages the use of a specific common strategy.
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I've got stuff to study for the next few hours, I'll have a look into the thread from time to time.
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It's pretty obvious actually, everyone should be moving either left or right on the board. For example A I and E are at the upper and lower borders, so you risk being one of them not moving at all or having their flashlight not pointed on the board if you pick up or down as movement or face direction.
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That would be 3 people possibly not getting to know if those have their movement speed, whereas the others can identify which ones belong to their movement speed group reliably, whether they chose to go at maximum or not.
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I checked actually, and misunderstood how movement works. Forget everything I said -.-
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I missed crossfire's post about how movement works. I was still stuck into thinking you pick a cardinal direction and have to move into just one direction.
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Aright, I've finished doing my stuff.
Upon rereading the whole thread, I now have someone else I would lynch: Zephir.
On May 15 2013 06:34 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2013 06:28 Vivax wrote:
As far as I get it we can lynch players normally.
What I don't get is the board's role. How does it influence what happens to the players? Does an angel AND the player behind it simply die if he ends up in the flashlight of a townie? players and angels seem to be entirely anonymous. I could have a gun and point my flashlight to an angel, but I would not know it unless I had knowledge of my own handle(the letter on the board).Angels, on the other hand, have full knowledge of the board and what does it do.
That said, I'll claim that I will move four my full movement speed on day 1 in order to figure who I am. I will claim my MS after the movements are solved in order to not allow an angel to try to mimic my movements.
anyone agrees/disagrees with that? Also BJ are together hueheu
His posts are designed to look useful, but they actually contain a lot of false or pointless information. Bolded for false, italic for pointless.
False cause you would get a message that you saw an angel last night.
Pointless cause what he says is like saying "Mafia knows who townies are", and mafia can fakeclaim movement speed anyway.
In the next post, he goes as far as to refer to this again, but contradicting himself in the process.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 15 2013 08:56 Zephirdd wrote:
I do believe it is safe to assume that Angels have a moderate-to-high movement speed. Their objective is to feed on three town players - not kill, feed.
In the same sense, I also assume players with a strong role are supposed to have a low movement speed, and weaker or positional-dependant roles have a higher MS.
That said, I do believe it is quite easy to rule B as a non-angel. In fact, I find it hard to believe anyone on the group of A,J,B,C,F are Angels, simply because they are too close to each other. That does NOT rule them out as Angels, I just think it is less likely. ((for instance, if I could pick anyone there to be an angel, I'd say it's F or A because they seem have the smallest possibility of catching another player day 1))
That said, I like the idea of claiming the movement right before the lynch. If we can keep track of who is who(keep in mind Angels already have that info), we can use movement patterns to town's advantage.
Remember that you can mask your maximum MS if you don't want to disclose it(ie. claim moving "3 tiles" even if your MS is 5), and you could even try to create breadcrumbs prior to the night post in order to get a good claim.
He says that we should claim our movement speed, but also says it's fine to mask our movement speed by fakeclaiming. How does that make any fucking sense? It's just going to make it harder to discern who is who, and if you claim another movement speed than the one you used, then it's just going to get you into trouble later.
When the Sentinel matter arose, he quickly took his side, showing him being trigger-happy on me despite what had been posted on page 1 since the start of the game, but not only that. The whole matter was about setup speculation, and what shows that Zephir's whole reasoning is bogus, is the fact that
1) First he attacks me for saying we could claim max MS
2) When phagga points out that the host said the angels could already know it, he quickly retracts the vote.
3) The next time he votes for me, he actually says I am pushing votes aggressively in one line, says I am not tunneling in the next line (implying that tunneling is townie) and then he says I am scum for just setup speculating when I have been pushing Oats already, by his own words. Also, why unvote me before if that was setup speculation too?
This shows that he is just bringing multiple reasons up to push a lynch on me, and the timing to jump on the bandwagon on me is more telling anyway.
1) + Show Spoiler +On May 16 2013 05:20 Zephirdd wrote:sentinel's post is legit. Claiming max MS gives scum the information we don't have. This is the passage: Show nested quote +Claim choices and speed shortly before the phase ends.
People might end up doing the same movements though, but if everyone moves at maximum speed we will be able to sort it out and narrow down the options. Why are we required to move at max MS? by claiming direction+speed+facing_direction, we already narrow down tons of possibilities. also this Show nested quote +I'm not sure if it's a good idea to look for the sides, it might make you less vulnerable, but also more predictable for the angels. It's a 25x25 board. It's not predictable when we are completely protected from one entire side of the board. Vivax, bring in your scum reads. Reasoning etc, be active. ##Vote Vivax
2) On May 16 2013 05:29 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 05:26 marvellosity wrote:On May 16 2013 05:23 Zephirdd wrote:On May 16 2013 05:17 Vivax wrote:On May 16 2013 03:40 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On May 15 2013 22:42 deconduo wrote:
Can an Angel's movespeed be reduced to 0 if enough people are looking at it?
If this is the case, it makes a good argument for gathering in the middle with everyone looking outwards. If they can't reach us they can't kill us. But wouldn't mkfuba have to actively respond to the PM to participate in the game? I wouldn't say lynch him outright, but I'm a little suspicious. Let's see how the day goes though. My only red leaning read at this point is Vivax, whose filter after game start seems to be weak counterarguments to a fairly solid plan. His last post (the big one) also references the fact that with everyone moving at max speed, it would be easier to discern who is who. After explicitly saying that by learning this, Angels can figure out who is dangerous and vulnerable. I feel as if he is looking for this information for this reason. ##Vote: Vivax This is a scumslip, the host explicitly said that it's possible that the angels know our movement speeds already. You showing this level of security as to immediately call me scum in spite of that fact, is proof that you are either not reading the thread with your due diligence, or scum with the information that angels don't know our movement speed, given your overall play I'm strongly leaning on the latter. I'm expecting your explanation for this, and I want reads from you on every player who posted something substantial in the thread. >ctrl+f speed on crossfire's and greymist's filter > one match, saying 1. Which direction they would like to move (each player has a movement speed, you will be told this in your Role PM) Okay ctrl-f crossfire's filter for "possible" (er, or possibly) Oh. Yes. Show nested quote +On May 15 2013 06:51 Vivax wrote:
You also have to factor in that multiple players could have the same MS.
In the OP there's no mentioning of the angel's knowledge about other player's movement speed, cause if they don't know it, it might not be the smartest idea to claim it.
Do Angels know the players' movement speeds? okay.jpg ##unvote
3) On May 16 2013 22:10 Zephirdd wrote:
fferyllt disappeared after the initial pressure, as if he was fine with my unvote and didn't need to post anymore after that. Sigh.
Sharrant made one freaking post. I understand that he said "I have little time" etc but he simply made one post and, after nobody mentioning him, disappeared.
ghost_404 seems to be playing as normal from what I remember, not reading too much into it.
Sentinel attracted too much attention for a scum Sentinel, at least this early.
marv feel green.
BH latest few posts are really weird. I had a green read early on.
mkfuba is alive, hooray. Now here's to hoping he can contribute something other than fluff and self-defense.
deconduo's play feels underwhelming and dare-I-say, scummy. His case on someone, after we pressured him a little bit, was a case on the 2-post guy that posted on the beginning of the game. He did have a pretty pro-town plan early on, and if he was an Angel he probably would never have asked the question of "who is what" on the board.
Oatsmaster is acting pretty much how I'd expect a town Oats to act. Knowing him from IRC, he is 17 year old I think(or 16?), so I don't expect essays out of his posts - and he is being really abrasive. I think a scum Oats would be more reserved, prodding here and there but never being aggressive as he is now. If anyone played with scum Oats, please do prove me wrong.
Vivax seems to be really focused on Oatsmaster, and is trying to lynch him out of policy. Not only that, he seems to be pretty much ignoring any other player on the board except Sentinel(which he dropped atm). He IS being actually really aggressive towards oats, and calling oats' play "playing like scum" is, in my opinion, bullshit. Oats has a history of not liking setup talk(which means its not a scumtell) but he isn't actively trying to fuck up with reads or something like that, nor he is trying to blend in and go unnoticed. And specially, he is not tunnel-visioning - at least not like Vivax.
phagga seems like the standard townie. Nothing to add.
mkfuba = lol
Good morning everyone!
Having said all of that, I was about to vote fferyllt again but Vivax's obsession with BJ is troubling me. Why talk about movement again, and not try to scumhunt? I don't know, look at other players other than oats, ask questions etc... instead he came back to setup talk. That makes no sense.
I want to kill Vivax, fferyllt and Sharrant, in this order.
##vote Vivax
##Vote Zephirdd
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On May 17 2013 02:04 Zephirdd wrote:
We can still lynch sharrath i thimk. Deadline is in 3 hours iirc. Posting from phone @class so forgive me if this post is rushed.
I dislike a deconduo lynch though. I made a big post about all players where I say it - there was a question he asked that makes me think would never be asked by an angel.
Vivax looks like a better lynch than decond atm IMO
Why do you want to lynch Sharrant.
You said this earlier.
He now has made more posts, there is no updated reasoning from your side, you're just looking for something easy to lynch.
Sharrant made one freaking post. I understand that he said "I have little time" etc but he simply made one post and, after nobody mentioning him, disappeared.
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As for deconduo, you call his post to be drop and run, when you don't know his schedule, and part of it is his setup talk.
I am not a fan of incriminating people based on the setup talk, rather for shutting it down, and even a bad idea is only as influential as the number of people following it. Proposing ideas with the potential to look so bad reads to me as unafraid, actually, people jumping at bad ideas screaming bloody murder read as scum.
I disagree with his read on ghost though. His point is that ghost is scum for saying mechanics are useless and then discussing them nontheless. Scum doesn't want to post extra much without reason. There was intrinsic motivation for ghost to discuss mechanics even after announcing it wouldn't be the best idea, that means he's likely town, unless he's some master at self-representation.
@ Zephir
How can you say I was not scumhunting, it's not like I've only been talking setup the whole day.
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EBWOP: Point being, I don't want to lynch deconduo, and we should wait what he has to say to the accusations. Trigger-happy = bad
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On May 17 2013 02:39 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2013 02:30 Vivax wrote:On May 17 2013 02:04 Zephirdd wrote:
We can still lynch sharrath i thimk. Deadline is in 3 hours iirc. Posting from phone @class so forgive me if this post is rushed.
I dislike a deconduo lynch though. I made a big post about all players where I say it - there was a question he asked that makes me think would never be asked by an angel.
Vivax looks like a better lynch than decond atm IMO Why do you want to lynch Sharrant. You said this earlier. He now has made more posts, there is no updated reasoning from your side, you're just looking for something easy to lynch. Sharrant made one freaking post. I understand that he said "I have little time" etc but he simply made one post and, after nobody mentioning him, disappeared. Because of what marv said + his sudden jump on deconduo. I dont see much substance either on his few posts. I also have trouble formuling ideas and writting them on the phone.
Marv said he's backing off him.
So?
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On May 17 2013 02:57 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2013 02:49 Vivax wrote:
As for deconduo, you call his post to be drop and run, when you don't know his schedule, and part of it is his setup talk.
I am not a fan of incriminating people based on the setup talk, rather for shutting it down, and even a bad idea is only as influential as the number of people following it. Proposing ideas with the potential to look so bad reads to me as unafraid, actually, people jumping at bad ideas screaming bloody murder read as scum.
I disagree with his read on ghost though. His point is that ghost is scum for saying mechanics are useless and then discussing them nontheless. Scum doesn't want to post extra much without reason. There was intrinsic motivation for ghost to discuss mechanics even after announcing it wouldn't be the best idea, that means he's likely town, unless he's some master at self-representation.
@ Zephir
How can you say I was not scumhunting, it's not like I've only been talking setup the whole day. Deconduo disappeared after the ghost case. At this time yesterday he had posted at least once. Also you talked about two things: oats and setup. Where is sentinel by the way...? '-' he was postig a lot yesterday, but now that the steam is off him he is gone. @shatt I missed your post where you said you read the nested quote, and thought it was really weird.
No, I also talked about sentinel, and now I'm talking about you..
It's ridiculous that you try to call people for scum by judging them by their quantity of reads.
You for example have a post where you mention mkfuba=lol, not really worth mentioning, you should rather have people look at what you have to say regarding your subjects of most interest.
Scum knows quantity looks good, town looks where they care to look.
On May 17 2013 02:59 Zephirdd wrote:
There he is lol
@Vivax should he provide a good(great) defense + some thoughts/scumhunting of his own that makes sense, I'll gladly jump out of the vote line.
But you said this earlier:
Secondly, this post is more like telling sentinel what he should do to be safe than giving his thoughts on sentinel(what I had asked). I would be fine with this, but he doesnt try to tell fferyllt what she should do like he does with sentinel on that post. There is kind of an incosistency with his interaction between those two.
AAaand deconduo's case on ghost is downright strawpicking IMO. I do think anyone who followed that case at the time did a bad thing.
If you would truly believe these points you are made, how does him appearing and doing other stuff change your read on him? The points you are making seem to be unrelated to the future. Are you sure that he's scum or not?
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I have dinner in 23 minutes like every thursday btw, sucks but it's rl. Not sure if I'll be back before deadline.
If I have to vote decon for self-preservation, I will. But I'm not very happy with it.
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On May 17 2013 02:52 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
My plan is to leave a vote on ghost for now. I'll be home in an hour and a half where I'll try to contribute before the lynch. I've skimmed the thread since my last post and will reread when I get home.
Vote: ghost_403
Start here once you're back, I find it hard to figure out how you missed a post so close to yours:
I disagree with his read on ghost though. His point is that ghost is scum for saying mechanics are useless and then discussing them nontheless. Scum doesn't want to post extra much without reason. There was intrinsic motivation for ghost to discuss mechanics even after announcing it wouldn't be the best idea, that means he's likely town, unless he's some master at self-representation.
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EPT
