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On May 16 2013 05:52 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 04:23 VayneAuthority wrote:On May 16 2013 03:50 ObviousOne wrote:On May 16 2013 03:47 VayneAuthority wrote:On May 16 2013 03:31 ObviousOne wrote:On May 16 2013 01:59 slOosh wrote:
I'm starting to doubt my initial read on Rayn. His continued followup and focus on OO looks good and addresses a bulk of my case indirectly. It throws me off that he misses my huge posts but that could be an innocent mistake. I'm most thrown off by how many people have echoed agreement but no one was willing to put votes on him, you know, to actually get him lynched.
And that's the general atmosphere of how I'm reading Day 1. Many people voicing suspicions and pointing fingers, but very few people actually pushing / consolidating / willing to get people lynched. That leads me to believe that we have a more lurky / timid type scum team that is joining on what is available rather than actively working to push lynches. The difficulty is that we have a bunch of lurky town who are doing the exact same thing and letting scum hide amongst them.
My stance upon OO is dependent on if he can back his words with proof - if he can mount a meta case on Vayne and therefore justify his actions and stances, then he doesn't look that bad, given that I don't really find Prom's "scumslip" thing that big, as indicated by my earlier question to him.
People I want to lynch will reveal themselves early tomorrow. If they don't / can't push the cases / suspicions that they voiced in day 1, then we know they were full of fluff and just pretending to look good. You might be waiting a few games to get a full fledged meta case on Vayne. You know, considering this is game 2 for him on this forum here on this account as far as I am aware. If you call me saying him reacting emotionally to Prom when he said that's what he does as town in this very game (and a far as I'm aware that is where this concept originates, that he will get emotional as town when he is headed for a mislynch), why should I believe it? So I take his last game and his explanation from his play there and extend it to here and I'm left with conflicting ideas brought up by his own design that he essentially is authoring his own meta on a game by game basis. All I have to go on is his own word regarding this and that's why I don't trust it as it makes me wonder why it is that you DO. If I precluded my own play this game with "I only get demotivated about the game as town" and then did what I did, would you honestly take my word for it they I pre-emotes my actions with reasoning? Besides all that, meta is icing on the cake and not a sole basis for my case. His points regarding Prp were null, not scummy, and I wanted to hang him for lynching Prp for basically manufactured reasons. His emotional response at 3 votes is absolutely out of this world incongruent with the game state. you're overanalyzing this shitty player, I could never be so sneaky. I have one playstyle and thats it hurrr Don't forget who the main wagons were either. Show me some of that sweet sweet vote analysis you say is one of your strengths. Show us. alright serious face. If you guys are really intent on visceraeyes being a good player (I cant meta this) then he is honestly really suspicious and not just for omgus reasons. just take one look at his voting history this past day, he was pretty much up to lynch just about anyone and anything. Bounced around so much you cant even get any info on him when he flips later. Completely disassociated himself from his voting and seemed indifferent at actually lynching town or scum. Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 04:24 VayneAuthority wrote:
Of course im equally sure that him and prome show up dead tonight, so take that with a grain of salt. You call him suspicious but are sure that he will show up dead tonight? Doesn't compute
point being if he doesnt die tonight, that raises my suspicion of him
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On May 16 2013 05:22 ObviousOne wrote:
I'll read back on Chaoser when Judge Judy is over.
I'm seeing a very much more involved Chaoser when it comes to a lot of these older games from him as BOTH town and scum, so I'm guessing alignment isn't a huge tell from him and there's something happening outside the confines of the game. Need that content from Chaoser.
( TL mafia database from the illustrious Kita: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17349384 you can get a good look at many of his games if you scroll down the player list and open his spoiler) OMG BONUS ADORABLE POST: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15063623
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I think it will rather be me and/or BH. No one is considering us for lynch, and WoS is scum.
You know what to do if we die tonight. Lynch that dude. No WIFOM bullshit. Go read what dead people wrote.
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I'm too tired to write anything big now. I just got "home" and need to sleep. Protect Prome/Sloosh. I don't care if VE/chaoser/BH die, even if they are town, as VE is probably scum, chaoser has disappeared since his questions for me, and BH is being useless besides his push on WoS.
Lynch Oats/VE/Kush tomorrow if nothing changes. For Oats, read my and his filter, you should see why. For VE, his vote was bullshit on a person that would never get lynched and the push was really weak. He also calls Oats' list "interesting" but does not contribute to it after, even when asked. Kush is really really bad, but not in a normal townie kush way. Anyone who has played a game with him should noticve this.
shiro/Vivax are odd, keep an eye on them. I don't like Vivax sheeping BH and then saying "I pushed WoS lynch". Vivax also can't possibly have a town read on shiro based on his contributions because that dude is a sneaky bitch sometimes. I am the only one who can really read shiro based on his contributions so far, and i am starting to doubt my read on him. He would never try to lynch me if he was scum (as i would get him lynched before), and it seems like he is trying to cast suspicion on me as some strong players are suspicious of me without doing shit about it. When i ask for reasons he is just joking about it. Other than that shiro just plain out sheeps BH. There is no way he can have a town read on BH, or if he does, he needs to explain it. Also if in any case shiro flips mafia, look at his D1 contributions. He is hesitant to buss or even talk about his teammates unless asked, that would mean all his suspects from D1 are 100% town.
That's all i got for you guys now. I'm really just too tired to make big posts now..
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Shiro should be treated as confirmed town just for openly flipflopping like that on Rayn back then. That isn't stuff scum would ever think about.
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On May 15 2013 02:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
yeah that's all i need, shirokami is town.
Look at this, he wrote it after I identified that post as townie, but now Rayn calls him odd.
I currently think scum is WoS, Rayn, Vayne
Less sure but gut-wise: S & B, chaoser, kush. I didn't check those connection wise but it would be a wise choice to look at how these 6 players interacted with each other.
Vayne even defended himself in advance for calling WoS town:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 15 2013 04:10 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2013 04:06 strongandbig wrote:On May 15 2013 04:02 WaveofShadow wrote:On May 15 2013 04:00 strongandbig wrote:quick oatsmaster update: I don't like that no one is talking about him T_Tguess i need to be more like bh if i want people to talk about my arguments Anyway I'm gonna do something else so I dont just tunnel him for all of time
question for shirokami: I see you posting a bunch of one-liners about how you agree with bh's case on wos. Could you give me your second best scum read and why? Or maybe read someone else's case on their scumread and tell me why they are wrong?
Same question for vayneauthority except with wos replaced by prplhz.
Responding to a question asked of me: On May 14 2013 09:07 WaveofShadow wrote:On May 14 2013 07:20 strongandbig wrote:On May 12 2013 19:48 Bill Murray wrote:
hi guys ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7Hbrlxz.png) pubic service announcement bill murray is signed up for this game and also he posted Funny pic is always +1 to town in my book. y u no vote Oats, SnB? I generally don't like to vote until I'm pretty serious about killing someone. I'd like for some more people to tell me what they think about Oats before I decide whether to commit to voting him.
My opinion on someone else that has votes on him: I quite like Sloosh's case on Ryan: + Show Spoiler +On May 14 2013 10:42 slOosh wrote:The last votecount should have WoS at [L-6]We need to start consolidating our votes. 6 wagons with a handful of people who I can't recall posting is a recipe for disaster.
I really would like more discussion on rayn than "he is good if not we can kill him later". 1) I have no idea how good he is, and even if he was good, there's no reason to give "good players" a "free multi day pass". 2) This doesn't actually work. In Liquid City Mafia, I was caught and exposed early by BloodyCobbler because of my weak scum play, yet no one actually lynched me. 3) Traditionally mafia KP is based upon mafia #. Lowering mafia # lowers mafia KP. His re-entry into the thread has 3 red flags: Flag 1:Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 02:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I agree with Prome on OO. I also do not like OO's analysis on my playstyle in this game. I can't read OO well and after Red Team Prize i have just mostly ignored him. Here i think he is a good lynch.
There is 0 contribution in this post. He sheeps Prome, comments that he doesn't like OO's analysis on himself but neglects to give any concrete proof or explanation, pre-emptively shirks responsibility for making a correct lynch by saying that he cannot read him, admits to ignoring him, and still concludes that he is a good lynch. Flag 2:From memory or reread, look at the people who find rayn suspicious. Ok. Now look at the things / people he chooses to address. Ok. Notice the discrepancy? He totally fails to address me. The one who (arguably) made the most clear cut, straightforward case against him. Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 00:55 slOosh wrote:In light of the DarthPunk flip I went back and reread people's stances on him. Because he had so much spotlight on him, scum would be compelled to make an opinion on him, or at least comment on him. What is important is to see how people justify their suspicions / read on him - town players have straightforward explanations while mafia try to make stuff up. Out of them, rayn sticks out the most: On May 13 2013 04:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
It's not optimal. It's stupid or mafia. This is a classic mafia tactic. Push and lynch people for being bad, not scum. On May 13 2013 04:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I mean it's not optimal to claim miller if you don't know the exact number of delf-aware millers. What Hiro said, it only allows mafia to get away with claiming it right in the beginning. If you are town you should never be checked by a cop. Here rayn implicitly calls DarthPunk mafia without actually doing so. He is pushing the idea that because it is "not optimal" that he is scum upon a ridiculous premise. "If you are town you shouldn't be checked". Read that out loud to yourself. It's nonsense. If that was the case then cops would always land red checks. Rayn is justifying his vote with bad (read non existent) reasoning. On May 13 2013 05:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:On May 13 2013 05:28 Vivax wrote:
Rayn what do you make of Kita calling WoS scum without reason and then more or less disappearing? I dunno what to make of it. Maybe he will explain it, maybe not, i'll judge later. I'm more interested in DP defending his claim as "what only townie would do" and then saying he is a good scum player and would never draw attention to himself like that as scum. If he thinks this is optimal town play, why so defensive?And calling people who think claiming miller is scummy stupid/scum is ridiculous. I would atm lynch him based purely on that. Avoiding giving opinions on kitaman(!!!) and draws attention back on DarthPunk. Then proceeds to ask a loaded question. On May 13 2013 05:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:On May 13 2013 05:45 DarthPunk wrote:On May 13 2013 05:38 WaveofShadow wrote:
Only think I don't like about your claim is why N0, DP?
You're calling for us to waste a vigi shot that could be put to possible better use later on in the game. you don't have to shoot now.... Like obviously I don't want to die. I would RATHER be vigged than lynched though. if it comes to that. Hopefully you can all read my alignment by all the posts I am making clearly outlining the reasons behind my actions. How about you stop defending your sole action and start scumhunting instead? Another loaded question, pushing suspicion on him without any justification. ##Vote raynpelikoneet Instead of addressing this primary suspicion on him, he chooses to instead address Vivax's fake - role name business, which wasn't even the primary source of suspicion on him. This is cherry picking; this is sidestepping. Flag 3:False "contribution". I don't remember who said this, but they said they liked rayn's most recent contributions. Well they should read again. Pick out just how many of his posts are questions. Those posts are not alignment telling - scum can do it no problem because it's so easy. In fact I resort to asking questions as scum because it's safe and I know I won't get flak for it, but it makes it look like I'm participating in discussion. You have to look into purpose and motivation behind the questions. The ultimate difference in scum and town is that town want scum dead while scum want to look like they want scum dead. Therefore, the ultimate heuristic in finding scum is to ask "are they actually trying to get scum lynched?" From his filter, rayn's only "meaningful" suspicion is on OO. You can see this because he tries to get people to focus on OO. However, they are in the form of "what do you think of OO? why not lynch him?", when he himself had given no proper reasoning to lynching him. There is no honest effort to make players understand his view of OO. It is uncertain if he actually wants OO (or anyone in particular) lynched or not. Makings of scum play - as long as it isn't scum, they don't care where the lynch lands. Everyone who hasn't, and everyone who has needs to give their updated views on rayn. If you want to push for someone else, you best have something more than a 1 liner saying "he looks bad". Rayne did respond to this but I don't find his response sufficient: + Show Spoiler +On May 15 2013 02:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:First, Sloosh and your case: + Show Spoiler +On May 14 2013 00:55 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 13:49 Oatsmaster wrote:
That was the absolutely worst vig shot in the history of mafia Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 13:49 Oatsmaster wrote:
Or scum decided to kill a dude under pressure. How can it be both a bad vig shot and a bad scum shot? This makes no sense at all.
In light of the DarthPunk flip I went back and reread people's stances on him. Because he had so much spotlight on him, scum would be compelled to make an opinion on him, or at least comment on him. What is important is to see how people justify their suspicions / read on him - town players have straightforward explanations while mafia try to make stuff up. Out of them, rayn sticks out the most: Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 04:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
It's not optimal. It's stupid or mafia. (1)This is a classic mafia tactic. Push and lynch people for being bad, not scum. Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 04:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I mean it's not optimal to claim miller if you don't know the exact number of delf-aware millers. What Hiro said, it only allows mafia to get away with claiming it right in the beginning. If you are town you should never be checked by a cop. (2)Here rayn implicitly calls DarthPunk mafia without actually doing so. He is pushing the idea that because it is "not optimal" that he is scum upon a ridiculous premise. "If you are town you shouldn't be checked". Read that out loud to yourself. It's nonsense. If that was the case then cops would always land red checks. Rayn is justifying his vote with bad (read non existent) reasoning. Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 05:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:On May 13 2013 05:28 Vivax wrote:
Rayn what do you make of Kita calling WoS scum without reason and then more or less disappearing? I dunno what to make of it. Maybe he will explain it, maybe not, i'll judge later. I'm more interested in DP defending his claim as "what only townie would do" and then saying he is a good scum player and would never draw attention to himself like that as scum. If he thinks this is optimal town play, why so defensive?And calling people who think claiming miller is scummy stupid/scum is ridiculous. I would atm lynch him based purely on that. (3)Avoiding giving opinions on kitaman(!!!) and draws attention back on DarthPunk. Then proceeds to ask a loaded question. Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 05:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:On May 13 2013 05:45 DarthPunk wrote:On May 13 2013 05:38 WaveofShadow wrote:
Only think I don't like about your claim is why N0, DP?
You're calling for us to waste a vigi shot that could be put to possible better use later on in the game. you don't have to shoot now.... Like obviously I don't want to die. I would RATHER be vigged than lynched though. if it comes to that. Hopefully you can all read my alignment by all the posts I am making clearly outlining the reasons behind my actions. How about you stop defending your sole action and start scumhunting instead? (4)Another loaded question, pushing suspicion on him without any justification. ##Vote raynpelikoneet 1) No it's not. It's an opinion that i expressed as simple as it was possible. I think claiming miller in a setup where the number (or existance) of millers is not known is stupid or scum. 2) The bolded part you quoted; I think as town you should play as pro-town as possible, right? Cops do not check people they think are town right? I didn't understand why DP, at the start of the game, was worried about being checked by a cop. For me it seemed like he was scum who was afraid of being checked. I hope you get what i mean. 3 and 4) As is said, i unfortunately have limited time. I was not interested in kitaman at that time, i did not know what to make of him calling WoS scum that early in the game, so i ignored it. I wanted to hear more from DP, and wanted him to do something else than to defend himself. Everyone was discussing him at that moment, i wanted to know what else than his claim was on his mind. If i got something else to clarify to you, ask me.
About why i am voting for OO: What Prome said about OO and OO having an explanation to the DP night kill. In top of that DP was suspicious of OO, makes sense. Another thing that's very very odd from OO: OO called me out for meta reasons. I then posted in thread that i have a tight work schedule. What does OO answer: Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 03:04 ObviousOne wrote:
Oh does this mean you are more busy than last game, Rayn? I'll keep that in mind then.
As far as my comment, it's exactly what it said. You asked a shit load of questions last game as town and it worked very well for a) me seeing that we were having similar thought processes and b) you generated a lot of things to analyze by prodding people. I wasn't seeing that from you so far here but if that's due to a change in your schedule then that potentially changes my expectations of town you in this scenario. In my opinion this has nothing to do with meta, at all. If i post less i post less, but i still act as i usually do whatever my alignment is. OO is dropping his meta scum-read on me because of my work schedule. How does that make sense? Right, it doesn't, unless he knows i'm town and made up a meta read on me before i was even able to fully contribute to anything but DP-stuff.
shiro: You are saying that if WoS is town i am scum. How does that make sense? Are you saying i am not able to form town reads on people other people think is scum? I have given my reasons why i think WoS is town, are they bullshit? Elaborate please. Ryan doesn't address two of Sloosh's stronger points: that Ryan is asking more questions than he is making contributions or providing opinions, in such a way as to appear to be contributing without actually contributing, and that he's not engaging with his serious opponents but instead cherry-picking weaker posts to respond to. That said I like that ryan is actually taking a serious look at oatsmaster, who i still think is more likely to be scum. See this is exactly what I mean. WTF is this? Look at how many of my posts are about Oats. How can I take this fucking game seriously? true but no one is listening to you, so it doesn't really help - i want to get some discussion on him. what does me leaving you out have to do with taking the game seriously? like, huh? On May 15 2013 04:02 VayneAuthority wrote:On May 15 2013 04:00 strongandbig wrote:quick oatsmaster update: I don't like that no one is talking about him T_T guess i need to be more like bh if i want people to talk about my arguments Anyway I'm gonna do something else so I dont just tunnel him for all of time
question for shirokami: I see you posting a bunch of one-liners about how you agree with bh's case on wos. Could you give me your second best scum read and why? Or maybe read someone else's case on their scumread and tell me why they are wrong?
Same question for vayneauthority except with wos replaced by prplhz.
Responding to a question asked of me: On May 14 2013 09:07 WaveofShadow wrote:On May 14 2013 07:20 strongandbig wrote:On May 12 2013 19:48 Bill Murray wrote:
hi guys pubic service announcement bill murray is signed up for this game and also he posted Funny pic is always +1 to town in my book. y u no vote Oats, SnB? I generally don't like to vote until I'm pretty serious about killing someone. I'd like for some more people to tell me what they think about Oats before I decide whether to commit to voting him.
My opinion on someone else that has votes on him: I quite like Sloosh's case on Ryan: + Show Spoiler +On May 14 2013 10:42 slOosh wrote:The last votecount should have WoS at [L-6]We need to start consolidating our votes. 6 wagons with a handful of people who I can't recall posting is a recipe for disaster.
I really would like more discussion on rayn than "he is good if not we can kill him later". 1) I have no idea how good he is, and even if he was good, there's no reason to give "good players" a "free multi day pass". 2) This doesn't actually work. In Liquid City Mafia, I was caught and exposed early by BloodyCobbler because of my weak scum play, yet no one actually lynched me. 3) Traditionally mafia KP is based upon mafia #. Lowering mafia # lowers mafia KP. His re-entry into the thread has 3 red flags: Flag 1:Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 02:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I agree with Prome on OO. I also do not like OO's analysis on my playstyle in this game. I can't read OO well and after Red Team Prize i have just mostly ignored him. Here i think he is a good lynch.
There is 0 contribution in this post. He sheeps Prome, comments that he doesn't like OO's analysis on himself but neglects to give any concrete proof or explanation, pre-emptively shirks responsibility for making a correct lynch by saying that he cannot read him, admits to ignoring him, and still concludes that he is a good lynch. Flag 2:From memory or reread, look at the people who find rayn suspicious. Ok. Now look at the things / people he chooses to address. Ok. Notice the discrepancy? He totally fails to address me. The one who (arguably) made the most clear cut, straightforward case against him. Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 00:55 slOosh wrote:In light of the DarthPunk flip I went back and reread people's stances on him. Because he had so much spotlight on him, scum would be compelled to make an opinion on him, or at least comment on him. What is important is to see how people justify their suspicions / read on him - town players have straightforward explanations while mafia try to make stuff up. Out of them, rayn sticks out the most: On May 13 2013 04:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
It's not optimal. It's stupid or mafia. This is a classic mafia tactic. Push and lynch people for being bad, not scum. On May 13 2013 04:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I mean it's not optimal to claim miller if you don't know the exact number of delf-aware millers. What Hiro said, it only allows mafia to get away with claiming it right in the beginning. If you are town you should never be checked by a cop. Here rayn implicitly calls DarthPunk mafia without actually doing so. He is pushing the idea that because it is "not optimal" that he is scum upon a ridiculous premise. "If you are town you shouldn't be checked". Read that out loud to yourself. It's nonsense. If that was the case then cops would always land red checks. Rayn is justifying his vote with bad (read non existent) reasoning. On May 13 2013 05:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:On May 13 2013 05:28 Vivax wrote:
Rayn what do you make of Kita calling WoS scum without reason and then more or less disappearing? I dunno what to make of it. Maybe he will explain it, maybe not, i'll judge later. I'm more interested in DP defending his claim as "what only townie would do" and then saying he is a good scum player and would never draw attention to himself like that as scum. If he thinks this is optimal town play, why so defensive?And calling people who think claiming miller is scummy stupid/scum is ridiculous. I would atm lynch him based purely on that. Avoiding giving opinions on kitaman(!!!) and draws attention back on DarthPunk. Then proceeds to ask a loaded question. On May 13 2013 05:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:On May 13 2013 05:45 DarthPunk wrote:On May 13 2013 05:38 WaveofShadow wrote:
Only think I don't like about your claim is why N0, DP?
You're calling for us to waste a vigi shot that could be put to possible better use later on in the game. you don't have to shoot now.... Like obviously I don't want to die. I would RATHER be vigged than lynched though. if it comes to that. Hopefully you can all read my alignment by all the posts I am making clearly outlining the reasons behind my actions. How about you stop defending your sole action and start scumhunting instead? Another loaded question, pushing suspicion on him without any justification. ##Vote raynpelikoneet Instead of addressing this primary suspicion on him, he chooses to instead address Vivax's fake - role name business, which wasn't even the primary source of suspicion on him. This is cherry picking; this is sidestepping. Flag 3:False "contribution". I don't remember who said this, but they said they liked rayn's most recent contributions. Well they should read again. Pick out just how many of his posts are questions. Those posts are not alignment telling - scum can do it no problem because it's so easy. In fact I resort to asking questions as scum because it's safe and I know I won't get flak for it, but it makes it look like I'm participating in discussion. You have to look into purpose and motivation behind the questions. The ultimate difference in scum and town is that town want scum dead while scum want to look like they want scum dead. Therefore, the ultimate heuristic in finding scum is to ask "are they actually trying to get scum lynched?" From his filter, rayn's only "meaningful" suspicion is on OO. You can see this because he tries to get people to focus on OO. However, they are in the form of "what do you think of OO? why not lynch him?", when he himself had given no proper reasoning to lynching him. There is no honest effort to make players understand his view of OO. It is uncertain if he actually wants OO (or anyone in particular) lynched or not. Makings of scum play - as long as it isn't scum, they don't care where the lynch lands. Everyone who hasn't, and everyone who has needs to give their updated views on rayn. If you want to push for someone else, you best have something more than a 1 liner saying "he looks bad". Rayne did respond to this but I don't find his response sufficient: + Show Spoiler +On May 15 2013 02:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:First, Sloosh and your case: + Show Spoiler +On May 14 2013 00:55 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 13:49 Oatsmaster wrote:
That was the absolutely worst vig shot in the history of mafia Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 13:49 Oatsmaster wrote:
Or scum decided to kill a dude under pressure. How can it be both a bad vig shot and a bad scum shot? This makes no sense at all.
In light of the DarthPunk flip I went back and reread people's stances on him. Because he had so much spotlight on him, scum would be compelled to make an opinion on him, or at least comment on him. What is important is to see how people justify their suspicions / read on him - town players have straightforward explanations while mafia try to make stuff up. Out of them, rayn sticks out the most: Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 04:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
It's not optimal. It's stupid or mafia. (1)This is a classic mafia tactic. Push and lynch people for being bad, not scum. Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 04:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I mean it's not optimal to claim miller if you don't know the exact number of delf-aware millers. What Hiro said, it only allows mafia to get away with claiming it right in the beginning. If you are town you should never be checked by a cop. (2)Here rayn implicitly calls DarthPunk mafia without actually doing so. He is pushing the idea that because it is "not optimal" that he is scum upon a ridiculous premise. "If you are town you shouldn't be checked". Read that out loud to yourself. It's nonsense. If that was the case then cops would always land red checks. Rayn is justifying his vote with bad (read non existent) reasoning. Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 05:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:On May 13 2013 05:28 Vivax wrote:
Rayn what do you make of Kita calling WoS scum without reason and then more or less disappearing? I dunno what to make of it. Maybe he will explain it, maybe not, i'll judge later. I'm more interested in DP defending his claim as "what only townie would do" and then saying he is a good scum player and would never draw attention to himself like that as scum. If he thinks this is optimal town play, why so defensive?And calling people who think claiming miller is scummy stupid/scum is ridiculous. I would atm lynch him based purely on that. (3)Avoiding giving opinions on kitaman(!!!) and draws attention back on DarthPunk. Then proceeds to ask a loaded question. Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 05:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:On May 13 2013 05:45 DarthPunk wrote:On May 13 2013 05:38 WaveofShadow wrote:
Only think I don't like about your claim is why N0, DP?
You're calling for us to waste a vigi shot that could be put to possible better use later on in the game. you don't have to shoot now.... Like obviously I don't want to die. I would RATHER be vigged than lynched though. if it comes to that. Hopefully you can all read my alignment by all the posts I am making clearly outlining the reasons behind my actions. How about you stop defending your sole action and start scumhunting instead? (4)Another loaded question, pushing suspicion on him without any justification. ##Vote raynpelikoneet 1) No it's not. It's an opinion that i expressed as simple as it was possible. I think claiming miller in a setup where the number (or existance) of millers is not known is stupid or scum. 2) The bolded part you quoted; I think as town you should play as pro-town as possible, right? Cops do not check people they think are town right? I didn't understand why DP, at the start of the game, was worried about being checked by a cop. For me it seemed like he was scum who was afraid of being checked. I hope you get what i mean. 3 and 4) As is said, i unfortunately have limited time. I was not interested in kitaman at that time, i did not know what to make of him calling WoS scum that early in the game, so i ignored it. I wanted to hear more from DP, and wanted him to do something else than to defend himself. Everyone was discussing him at that moment, i wanted to know what else than his claim was on his mind. If i got something else to clarify to you, ask me.
About why i am voting for OO: What Prome said about OO and OO having an explanation to the DP night kill. In top of that DP was suspicious of OO, makes sense. Another thing that's very very odd from OO: OO called me out for meta reasons. I then posted in thread that i have a tight work schedule. What does OO answer: Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 03:04 ObviousOne wrote:
Oh does this mean you are more busy than last game, Rayn? I'll keep that in mind then.
As far as my comment, it's exactly what it said. You asked a shit load of questions last game as town and it worked very well for a) me seeing that we were having similar thought processes and b) you generated a lot of things to analyze by prodding people. I wasn't seeing that from you so far here but if that's due to a change in your schedule then that potentially changes my expectations of town you in this scenario. In my opinion this has nothing to do with meta, at all. If i post less i post less, but i still act as i usually do whatever my alignment is. OO is dropping his meta scum-read on me because of my work schedule. How does that make sense? Right, it doesn't, unless he knows i'm town and made up a meta read on me before i was even able to fully contribute to anything but DP-stuff.
shiro: You are saying that if WoS is town i am scum. How does that make sense? Are you saying i am not able to form town reads on people other people think is scum? I have given my reasons why i think WoS is town, are they bullshit? Elaborate please. Ryan doesn't address two of Sloosh's stronger points: that Ryan is asking more questions than he is making contributions or providing opinions, in such a way as to appear to be contributing without actually contributing, and that he's not engaging with his serious opponents but instead cherry-picking weaker posts to respond to. That said I like that ryan is actually taking a serious look at oatsmaster, who i still think is more likely to be scum. Dont understand your question since I started the prplhz scumread, please rephrase your question. Could you either post a second scumread and explanation for it, or evaluate one of the cases someone else has made on someone with votes on them, and explain why you disagree Alright sure. I just posted a few more of my scumreads above so ill evaluate why I think WoS is not mafia. This goes back to the same analysis I played in my previous game to find a mafia, except now I am using it to find a town. When I am town, I get really fucking mad when people are going to lynch me because I know that im innocent and it gets me emotional to know that I played so fucking poorly that people are going to lynch me and we are going to lose for it. When im guilty I try to stay cool and reason with people and it is much easier to know since I inherently know that I am guilty so there's nothing to be upset about, people just played better than me and found me out. with how WoS is getting so mad, I really don't see him flipping mafia but of course not everyone is the same. He could be mafia, but I do not think so. On May 15 2013 04:19 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2013 04:14 Blazinghand wrote:
I understand the idea of "mad people must be town" but that's really not true. WoS under pressure does not get mad, he gets serious, he gets down to brass tacks. Like, pretending to be mad is literally one of the easiest things scum can do, and if you think that's a towntell I 100% guarantee you will get suckered by it every time. Is WoS acting angry? sure, yes he is. Is that in any way indicative of a town alignment? Typically I'd say it's a nulltell, but woS normally reacts to pressure by being good, not by being angry. This imo plus his attempting to find me scummy rather than find out who i am (until I called him out on it, of course, then he changed course to look less scummy) should be pretty serious scumtells for you.
I want better reasoning for allt hese not-WoS votes.
That being said I understand there are other people to be talked about today, and so I will offer my thoughts on other players. obviously there's no one way to know somebody is mafia or this game would be boring, not all mad people are innocent so you have to use your intuition at that point.
If he flips mafia I look really bad at this point and hes scheduled to be lynched, so think about that for later when deciding on my alignment. Would I really stick myself out this far and look bad on either flip for WoS if I was mafia? Now THAT makes no sense at all.
I don't mind exposing myself to a NK by sharing my reads cause I can't be around after resolution time due to EU time, I just want you to go back to this for the case I die.
As for other options, I'm
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Kush abandoned the WoS bandwagon very quickly to go for BH, his aggressor. He might have been scared about WoS getting lynched and went for a quick bus, then switched target when the waters calmed down.
Overall, scum doesn't even have to bus WoS. A lot of townies have him as town. A lot of my faith into him being scum is BH's confidence, if BH is scum then that would possibly have consequences for my Vayne and kush read.
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Hey sorry guys, work is kicking my ass. I'll hopefully get a chance to catch up before dawn. 
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On May 16 2013 06:13 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 05:22 ObviousOne wrote:
I'll read back on Chaoser when Judge Judy is over. I'm seeing a very much more involved Chaoser when it comes to a lot of these older games from him as BOTH town and scum, so I'm guessing alignment isn't a huge tell from him and there's something happening outside the confines of the game. Need that content from Chaoser.( TL mafia database from the illustrious Kita: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17349384 you can get a good look at many of his games if you scroll down the player list and open his spoiler) OMG BONUS ADORABLE POST: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15063623
EBWOP: activity isn't a huge scum tell from him. Lol I wrote alignment that's hilarious.
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vivax, blazinghand isn't a player with strong reads. his claim to fame is that every single person who he threatens to eat his hat over has flipped town. he's loud, bold, and will trumpet his greatness at every given opportunity but isn't really known for his ability to find mafia. quite frankly, I'm not sure why you have so much confidence in him. would you mind explaining?
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On May 16 2013 07:32 HiroPro wrote:
vivax, blazinghand isn't a player with strong reads. his claim to fame is that every single person who he threatens to eat his hat over has flipped town. he's loud, bold, and will trumpet his greatness at every given opportunity but isn't really known for his ability to find mafia. quite frankly, I'm not sure why you have so much confidence in him. would you mind explaining?
I have to say that you bother me somewhat, too, upon reading. You talked a lot about coming to the conclusion that prplhz is probably town and what he does is so bad but I hardly see you pushing cases on people since the one on OO.
Your whole push against OO looks like a calculated tunnel, your other reads are weird and don't include much reasoning. You don't inquire as much as I would want you to. You don't seem to give updates based on OO's newer play, but keep pointing to an old case.
There seems to be very few doubt in your filter. I initially saw your firm opinions as town tell, but since they're becoming too firm on the timeline, they are actually looking like agenda now.
I didn't check how my other reads treated you, but you sure are a good candidate for scum just based on that.
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On May 16 2013 07:47 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 07:32 HiroPro wrote:
vivax, blazinghand isn't a player with strong reads. his claim to fame is that every single person who he threatens to eat his hat over has flipped town. he's loud, bold, and will trumpet his greatness at every given opportunity but isn't really known for his ability to find mafia. quite frankly, I'm not sure why you have so much confidence in him. would you mind explaining? I have to say that you bother me somewhat, too, upon reading. You talked a lot about coming to the conclusion that prplhz is probably town and what he does is so bad but I hardly see you pushing cases on people since the one on OO. Your whole push against OO looks like a calculated tunnel, your other reads are weird and don't include much reasoning. You don't inquire as much as I would want you to. You don't seem to give updates based on OO's newer play, but keep pointing to an old case. There seems to be very few doubt in your filter. I initially saw your firm opinions as town tell, but since they're becoming too firm on the timeline, they are actually looking like agenda now. I didn't check how my other reads treated you, but you sure are a good candidate for scum just based on that.
Answer the question. Where does your confidence in blazinghand come from?
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
I would like to know as well
few people truly understand my skills
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On May 16 2013 06:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I'm too tired to write anything big now. I just got "home" and need to sleep. Protect Prome/Sloosh. I don't care if VE/chaoser/BH die, even if they are town, as VE is probably scum, chaoser has disappeared since his questions for me, and BH is being useless besides his push on WoS.
Lynch Oats/VE/Kush tomorrow if nothing changes. For Oats, read my and his filter, you should see why. For VE, his vote was bullshit on a person that would never get lynched and the push was really weak. He also calls Oats' list "interesting" but does not contribute to it after, even when asked. Kush is really really bad, but not in a normal townie kush way. Anyone who has played a game with him should noticve this.
shiro/Vivax are odd, keep an eye on them. I don't like Vivax sheeping BH and then saying "I pushed WoS lynch". Vivax also can't possibly have a town read on shiro based on his contributions because that dude is a sneaky bitch sometimes. I am the only one who can really read shiro based on his contributions so far, and i am starting to doubt my read on him. He would never try to lynch me if he was scum (as i would get him lynched before), and it seems like he is trying to cast suspicion on me as some strong players are suspicious of me without doing shit about it. When i ask for reasons he is just joking about it. Other than that shiro just plain out sheeps BH. There is no way he can have a town read on BH, or if he does, he needs to explain it. Also if in any case shiro flips mafia, look at his D1 contributions. He is hesitant to buss or even talk about his teammates unless asked, that would mean all his suspects from D1 are 100% town.
That's all i got for you guys now. I'm really just too tired to make big posts now..
Alright Rayn now I finally see what everyone else sees in your play.
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On May 16 2013 07:18 Vivax wrote:
Kush abandoned the WoS bandwagon very quickly to go for BH, his aggressor. He might have been scared about WoS getting lynched and went for a quick bus, then switched target when the waters calmed down.
Overall, scum doesn't even have to bus WoS. A lot of townies have him as town. A lot of my faith into him being scum is BH's confidence, if BH is scum then that would possibly have consequences for my Vayne and kush read.
So...association, association, association,
Your reads are garbage this game Vivax, what gives?
I put a great deal of merit in Rayn's most recent post but I also think it could be likely that Vivax and/or BH die tonight if they are town because something else mafia loves to do in games like this is frame me. In fact, just me talking about it may make it even more likely that they die huehuehuehuehue
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I have some baby stuff to do and eat dinner but I'll be back in full force later this evening.
I welcome any and all questions and/or suspicions.
Bring it scrubs
Oh before I go....why does it seem this game is almost divided into people who vehemently view me as scum and refuse to see any other option, and people who are almost the exact opposite, defending me at every turn?
Hiro I'm looking at you as an example of that latter option.
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blah rayn dont flatter yourself, the townread on BH is gone. vivax is my friend now.
I still want to lynch WoS and you.
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WoS you scummy fuck stop giving scum good ideas.
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As for my play d1: yup I had no idea wtf was going on and my opinion was pretty much not work anything. I abandoned wagons because they were pure sheeps. D1 should be give you a null read of me.
Tonight I will try to find the scum and that is a kush promise..
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EPT
