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On May 16 2013 09:54 shirokami wrote:
blah rayn dont flatter yourself, the townread on BH is gone. vivax is my friend now.
I still want to lynch WoS and you.
How the fuck does this make any sense at all?
Is this an association tell based on me as well?
The fact that Vivax afked the latter half of yesterday and left his vote on me is enough for you because BH changed it, even though BH was the main and aggressive proponent of my lynch all yesterday?
Fuck this is stupid.
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On May 16 2013 10:00 kushm4sta wrote:
As for my play d1: yup I had no idea wtf was going on and my opinion was pretty much not work anything. I abandoned wagons because they were pure sheeps. D1 should be give you a null read of me.
Tonight I will try to find the scum and that is a kush promise..
Based on [REDACTED] I am forced to believe you. Just actually fucking do it, and don't just say you'll do it.
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What reasons are there for a town player to outright follow another player just based on who they are? The most common are that they have a strong town read on that player and a reasonably good opinion of their ability or that they have such a high view of that person's ability that they'll blindly follow them, enamored by the thought that this player will solve the game for them and make everything right (a la prplhz/Mattchew).
In Vivax's posts, I don't see a single reason for thinking that Blazinghand is town. In fact, the only time Vivax ever mentions an opinion on Blazinhand's alignment (before following him) is when he says that BH reminds him more of his mafia play than his play as detective. After that there's never any indication of a reason for thinking BH is town that doesn't have to do with the push on WaveOfShadow. At the same time, when asked why he values BH's ability highly, Vivax can't (or won't) offer up a single reason or example.
There is a good reason for mafia to do this kind of play though: avoiding responsibility. The reasons that Vivax gives for WaveOfShadow being mafia are always balanced out by the explanation that he's mostly doing it because BH is so confident and gave a '10'. Mafia are often concerned about negative backlash from a mislynch and Vivax appears to use BH's presence as a way to avoid this danger and instead pin the blame on someone else.
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On May 16 2013 03:31 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 01:59 slOosh wrote:
I'm starting to doubt my initial read on Rayn. His continued followup and focus on OO looks good and addresses a bulk of my case indirectly. It throws me off that he misses my huge posts but that could be an innocent mistake. I'm most thrown off by how many people have echoed agreement but no one was willing to put votes on him, you know, to actually get him lynched.
And that's the general atmosphere of how I'm reading Day 1. Many people voicing suspicions and pointing fingers, but very few people actually pushing / consolidating / willing to get people lynched. That leads me to believe that we have a more lurky / timid type scum team that is joining on what is available rather than actively working to push lynches. The difficulty is that we have a bunch of lurky town who are doing the exact same thing and letting scum hide amongst them.
My stance upon OO is dependent on if he can back his words with proof - if he can mount a meta case on Vayne and therefore justify his actions and stances, then he doesn't look that bad, given that I don't really find Prom's "scumslip" thing that big, as indicated by my earlier question to him.
People I want to lynch will reveal themselves early tomorrow. If they don't / can't push the cases / suspicions that they voiced in day 1, then we know they were full of fluff and just pretending to look good. You might be waiting a few games to get a full fledged meta case on Vayne. You know, considering this is game 2 for him on this forum here on this account as far as I am aware. If you call me saying him reacting emotionally to Prom when he said that's what he does as town in this very game (and a far as I'm aware that is where this concept originates, that he will get emotional as town when he is headed for a mislynch), why should I believe it? So I take his last game and his explanation from his play there and extend it to here and I'm left with conflicting ideas brought up by his own design that he essentially is authoring his own meta on a game by game basis. All I have to go on is his own word regarding this and that's why I don't trust it as it makes me wonder why it is that you DO. If I precluded my own play this game with "I only get demotivated about the game as town" and then did what I did, would you honestly take my word for it they I pre-emotes my actions with reasoning? Besides all that, meta is icing on the cake and not a sole basis for my case. His points regarding Prp were null, not scummy, and I wanted to hang him for lynching Prp for basically manufactured reasons. His emotional response at 3 votes is absolutely out of this world incongruent with the game state.
I'm sorry, where do I do the bolded?
I never claimed meta was a sole basis for your case. And I addressed the other points of your case:
On May 15 2013 13:00 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2013 08:09 ObviousOne wrote:
I don't like it and I think I'll vote to lynch you now that I've reviewed your filter. Nothing in Prplhz filter says scum to me right now. Your point about Kita interaction means precisely nothing. Saying you suck to slOosh is null. Two null points do not a scum read make. This is a staggering fabrication while you yourself remain distanced and full of "logic" but your logic is faulty and a such you are either willfully pushing a bad lynch or you are simply not aware that most players here are friendly with each other and that basic interactions are useful not only to determine alignment but to greet each other when they haven't played together in some time.
##unvote Sinani
##vote VayneAuthority No mention at all about Vayne's meta. These are all points that existed before, and there isn't actually stuff in there that is used to prove he is scum as much as it is used to prove that he is a "bad player". Therefore the original meta use is total fluff.
You are merely using points that VE (iirc) already brought up against Vayne, just with more flourish. Your case on Vayne boils down to him being a poor player rather than scum, and you still have failed to provide any meaningful meta on him, saying that it can't be done but still using it as justification for lynching him. So 0 contribution on that end.
Your two previous votes are on yourself and on a total lurker, and this all when thread sentiment was focusing on you and a wagon was building on you:
On May 15 2013 05:51 ObviousOne wrote:
I changed my mind. Rayn is not smart. Other than that I really have nothing to add to the conversation. I got asked a question or three along the way but I CBF to answer them. I have zero passion for this game today. You can take that as you will. The fact that I was trying to get people to talk N0 and honey badgered my way up through the first flips apparently holds no weight with anyone and drained my motivation when I now see that people who were not or just barely participating are still not or just barely participating and I have no response to that except to help remove myself from this situation.
##vote ObviousOne On May 15 2013 06:47 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2013 06:39 WaveofShadow wrote:On May 15 2013 06:30 ObviousOne wrote:
You offered to listen. Why say that nobody is listening to you in a conversation with me? I already read the thread once yes. I simply can't be useful today. Maybe I will have some insight later when I get my brain back and this headache is gone.
Someone was talking about preflip associations. The cure is to flip someone. Not hard. IML is so good. Well listening when someone is feeling down usually comes with an offer advice or assistance; if you didn't want that then I apologize. I said no one was listening to me because you said "If you feel I could redeem myself." It doesn't matter what I personally feel since no one is listening to me anyway. That's what I was getting at. Anywho, do you have any thoughts at all about the game currently or you're going to wait for a flip first? Okay. That makes some sense. FWIW I don't think you are mafia and I do plan to re-read tonight despite my condition. So let's do this and vote Sinani. BM is easy enough to figure out when he posts. Let's vote Sinani off the ship. ##unvote ObviousOne
##vote SinaniResistance will be met with aggression and hostility. If you are counting on a mod kill, shut your hole. If you think you can read into him with zero posts, you're deranged. Take out the trash. First lynch is a gift.
And you say I'm farting into the wind?
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Also, if you choose to use [REDACTED], whatever that means, please support it with something else within the thread.
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[QUOTE]On May 16 2013 03:57 strongandbig wrote:
Okay let's talk about this stuff
- Wanting to kill people who "have a bad attitude" or who "are making promises" are classic scum tactics. Scum need to find someone to kill for a reason other than that they are scum, and this is often taken as an easy out. The reason that's the scummiest and worst post in the thread is that oats is trying to pass this off as normal.
[quote]
Or you didnt read the 'bad' attitude? Coupled with the previous scummiest, that tipped the balance for me.
[quote]
- I don't care that oats claimed that his vote was stolen, I care that he just casually passed it off without bringing any attention or analysis to it. It's a scummy way to make a claim of kind of an unusual role-mechanic.
[/quote]
Kind sir, can you elaborate on the kind of analysis that you want from a pm that I got saying 'your vote is stolen today''?
[quote]
- It's not the way that oats came to the conclusion that rayn had scumslipped, it's how he reacted to the supposed scumslip. If you're a townie and you think someone has scumslipped, you jump all over them. You explain why it's a scumslip, you bring it to people's attention, you try and get that scum killed. Instead oats just casually threw out "hey doods its a scum slip," without pursuing it or even explaining what the scumslip was.
[/quote]
Yeah, you would think as scum that I would go all out on that scumslip right? Funny huh, how Im not playing like mafia.
I dont think scumslips actually exist further than info that they shouldnt know like number of mafia in a closed setup game and stuff like that. That was not the case.
[quote]
- finally, if you really think voting someone early, in an instant-majority game, without explaining yourself further than "let's get this wagon rolling" is a good townie way to play, I would hate to live in a town where you were in charge. The scum motivation for that kind of vote is totally clear.
[/quote]
Except I can unvote. And unvote. And vote for someone else.
Why didnt you bring this up when I first did it if you thought it was objectively scummy?(it isnt.)
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Night post will be late (no more than 30 minutes) because I'll be moving around.
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On May 16 2013 03:57 strongandbig wrote:
Okay let's talk about this stuff
- Wanting to kill people who "have a bad attitude" or who "are making promises" are classic scum tactics. Scum need to find someone to kill for a reason other than that they are scum, and this is often taken as an easy out. The reason that's the scummiest and worst post in the thread is that oats is trying to pass this off as normal.
Or you didnt read the 'bad' attitude? Coupled with the previous scummiest, that tipped the balance for me.
- I don't care that oats claimed that his vote was stolen, I care that he just casually passed it off without bringing any attention or analysis to it. It's a scummy way to make a claim of kind of an unusual role-mechanic.
Kind sir, can you elaborate on the kind of analysis that you want from a pm that I got saying 'your vote is stolen today''?
- It's not the way that oats came to the conclusion that rayn had scumslipped, it's how he reacted to the supposed scumslip. If you're a townie and you think someone has scumslipped, you jump all over them. You explain why it's a scumslip, you bring it to people's attention, you try and get that scum killed. Instead oats just casually threw out "hey doods its a scum slip," without pursuing it or even explaining what the scumslip was.
Yeah, you would think as scum that I would go all out on that scumslip right? Funny huh, how Im not playing like mafia.
I dont think scumslips actually exist further than info that they shouldnt know like number of mafia in a closed setup game and stuff like that. That was not the case.
- finally, if you really think voting someone early, in an instant-majority game, without explaining yourself further than "let's get this wagon rolling" is a good townie way to play, I would hate to live in a town where you were in charge. The scum motivation for that kind of vote is totally clear.
Except I can unvote. And unvote. And vote for someone else.
Why didnt you bring this up when I first did it if you thought it was objectively scummy?(it isnt.)
[/QUOTE]
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 16 2013 10:06 WaveofShadow wrote:
How the fuck does this make any sense at all?
Is this an association tell based on me as well?
The fact that Vivax afked the latter half of yesterday and left his vote on me is enough for you because BH changed it, even though BH was the main and aggressive proponent of my lynch all yesterday?
Fuck this is stupid.
I just lost my hope on BH and vivax seems like a good guy, and I also want to see you hang buddy. Im like a the tramp dog from dat disney movie, on monday I eat at this italian who gives me pizza, next day I eat at donnie's who gives me some chicken. Im not a genius, I dont make posts that are hard to read because they are too long and full of emotional or useless bullshit, I dont say someone is scum because of his meta. I just like to agree with the towniest guy there is. BUT I will tell my OWN opinion when I seem it is necessary. but now, it is N1 and thx to some stupid people there were no-lynch. The NK will tell us something, And If I have an opinion about it, I will post it. My filter is short, and rayn and vivax can already tell that im town based on it, do you know why? IT IS EASY TO READ.
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
i'm not made out of time at the moment but tomorrow i will be hardpressed to lynch anyone but OO
has to do with how lynched turned out, basically if there were any scum NOT on OO why weren't they when we were one vote from lynching him? they wanted us chasing own tails for +1 day
bh out
/dunked
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![[image loading]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vECBXJBflIw/UD-1mHuTSTI/AAAAAAAAMgI/M_LQ-qqvc1Y/s1600/Basic+ground+rules+for+a+cruise.png) Night 1
VayneAuthority, The Virgin Cruiser (Vanilla Town) has been killed
+ Show Spoiler +
Virgin Cruiser (Vanilla Town) - Welcome to another wonderful adventure with Carnival Cruise lines where high fantasy meets the high seas! When I wrote this role PM I realized the double meaning behind the words and snickered. Then I remembered the FBI and CIA might have bugged my computer for sex crime violations so I'm going to play this safe. You are a first time cruiser, not an actual virgin as far as I know, and have heard crazy stories about what goes down on a cruise ship. You also realize the first day on the ship how expensive everything is. It's ok, you started making friends with some other passengers and just when you start having fun you hear some people are trying to take over the ship. A little peeved that the first time you set sail it might be ruined you resolve to find these bad guys and get them off the ship. You win when all threats to the cruise passengers (Town) are eliminated. Good luck! Have fun!
raynpelikoneet, Internet Contest Winner (Vanilla Town) has been killed
+ Show Spoiler +
Internet Contest Winner (Vanilla Town) - Welcome to another wonderful adventure with Carnival Cruise lines where high fantasy meets the high seas! There you were browsing the internet at 4AM in the morning when one of those notorious pop ups escaped your ad block. Being in a festive and curious mood you clicked it and won a contest to join us on a lovely cruise! Not knowing what to expect you boarded the ship anyway only to be hit with grave news that the ship is in danger of being taken over by some unsavory characters. Panicking you pull out your trusty smartphone to dial the cops! Crap - no Wifi this far from civilization. You should have stayed your ass on the internet. You've watched enough anime to believe in the Will of Fire like Naruto says. You're gonna get rid of the bad guys. Or get killed when you remember you're out of shape and can't fight. You win when all threats to the cruise passengers (Town) are eliminated. Good luck! Have fun!
Vivax, The Crew Barber (Vigilante) has been killed
+ Show Spoiler +
Crew Barber (Vigilante) - trained in the manly arts of wielding a blade to conquer the ferocious hairs on man's chin, you now employ your timeless craft on this pitiful ship, crumbling to the whims of the crew and the passengers for a mere $10 a shave. But alas! At night you walk around clean shaven and brave, blade in your hand ready to strike at the first fool that dares quip at you "bet you won't shave your ass!". Getting rid of wise asses is a good thing, but steady your aim carefully. Don't cut any of the passengers (Town) players because malpractice insurance is a bitch but instead look for the cheap skates that refuse to pay their fare (anti-town) and give them a free cut! oh the joys of alliteration! or was that a metaphor? whatever. You can kill every night if you choose starting Night 0. You win when all threats to the cruise passengers (Town) are eliminated. Good luck!
It is now Day 2. With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Modkills will occur in 24 hours if no replacements sign up. Day 2 ends Saturday, May 18 4:00am GMT (GMT+00:00).
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so long, guess I should have wrote a will!
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Lol vivax you suck man, why shoot Vayne ?? 
K can we lynch WoS?
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That rayn shot was also kinda weird.
huh.
why not prome/bh/VE???
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
rayn shot is never weird, the man is a scumhunting genius
but yeah looks straightforwards to me, vivax shot vayne, scum shot rayn and sniped vivax. at least the guy got a bullet off before he died
so I see no reason not to ##vote obviousone
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I really don't understand that shot, Vivax, but gg. Clearly for all of his spouting shit off he either didn't actually think I was scum or was waiting on something; what it was I don't know.
Pretty much everything BH said though. BH what do you make of OO's attempts during the night?
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
basically what i'd expect. a lot of meaningles babbles (about chaoser) and some attempts to look more townie. absent the hideous no-lynch today, he looks a bit better, but none of the reasons have changed and really it's inexcusable not to lynch him now
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On May 16 2013 14:28 Oatsmaster wrote:
That rayn shot was also kinda weird.
huh.
why not prome/bh/VE???
No kill on Prom/BH worries me. The Vivax shot was honestly smart; the guy seems to pick up a strong blue role every game and every game he gets sniped for it. I can't say it was an attempt to frame me either since BH is still alive as well; despite the fact that he dropped me as prime target yesterday he was making it fairly clear he still wanted me dead. Rayn shot was obvious as well.
I've already been called out for this, but the fact that Prom and BH are both still alive and both were the primary proponents of me being scum yesterday means one of them must be scum imo. I am aware the Prom never attempted to push me beyond his initial case/suspicion but it fits with what I'm thinking. I'll attempt to build on this as the day progresses but it really doesn't feel good to me at all.
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EPT
