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yamato77
11589 Posts
On April 22 2013 13:51 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Its day 1, id expect to not get those from me at this juncture. Yamato is likely scum, BM should be lynched or vigi'd. If drH doesn't appear within the next 12 hoursish he is almost deff scum. No, you're mafia! | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
By that I mean identify the whole team. Or, at least, the 5 people I'm most suspicious of at that time. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
On April 22 2013 16:58 yamato77 wrote: If you guys are lucky, I'll tell you who mafia is tomorrow. By that I mean identify the whole team. Or, at least, the 5 people I'm most suspicious of at that time. Oh wow, yamato is gonna grace us with his rare burst of intelligence. IM SO EXCITED \o/ | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
##Unvote: Bill Murray I really hate your play. I agree with BC you should be vigged asap. Then. This is the post where Sharrant votes for me: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2013 07:45 Sharrant wrote: This needs pointing out. One: I did not accuse you of trying to policy lynch Bill Murray. What you quoted at the top there, that is about you saying I did not come to a conclusion about policy lynching miller claims. It's interesting that you feel the need to be defensive about that. Two: You are hilariously hung up on me asking for his games. If he's a townie, then he should be all for establishing his townieness. I am not going to search through other forums to try and find where he may have possibly played, especially given he could have played under any name he wanted. You think that asking that automatically means that I have not looked at his games on TL. I'm still interested on why you think this is so scummy? It's actually gotten to the point I find this hilarious. Three: You're definitely right, you have a big case on BM, and it has nothing to do with policy. I had no opinion of you trying to lynch Bill Murray, I have no idea yet if he's a good lynch or not. But how do you explain that? The thing you have posted about most in this game, is policy lynching BM and anyone else who does what he did. ##unvote:TheRavensName ##Vote:Raynepelikoneet And his post where he explains his scumread on me: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2013 13:26 Sharrant wrote: It was part of the thought process that got me to look at you in the first place. Obviously TRN is not getting lynched so there is no credit for you to gain from it anymore. It is even, apparently, something you told TRN that you would do as mafia (though you did not state you would do it specifically to him). You seem to be misinterpreting my definition of small chance. Small chance of being mafia still meant a greater chance than anyone elses actions in the thread. At that point I figured he probably had about a 40 percent chance of being mafia, if I were to assign a value to it. A small chance, but still greater than I felt anyone else had. So I went after him because he was the strongest scum read I had. When Rayn made these two posts: That was a lot more effort than anyone took to explain TRN. Everyone that commented on him, or I asked to comment on him, just stated they thought he was a noob town, but generally people had to be prodded into action. Rayn came in attacking me with a very weak case because of my case on TRN. At this point, I am very happy because I am sure I have at least one mafia in these 2 players. I am sure after that attack and defense that Rayn is mafia either defending a mafia to deflect a bandwagon before it can start, or defending someone he sees will be lynched later and thus he would be able to go "Hey look, I knew he was town allt he way back then and I defended him!" regardless of whether he was lynched today, or tomorrow, or a week from now. At this point I am 100% sure of Rayn, and 50/50 on TRN. When TRN came in and said that he had a town read on Rayn despite the inconsistincies myself and others had pointed out, I had TRN down as very likely to be scum. But when he later mentioned how Rayn had told him that he planned to do this exact same thing as scum before, and subsequently moved him to a null read, that was when I was pretty sure that TRN was town. At this point I am less sure about Rayn being scum than I was then, because his conversations with other players has generally been good since that time, but he's still in my top 3 to lynch. I just haven't decided if there's someone I'd rather lynch more, like say Hopeless. Any more questions? Now, what do we have here? Look at the posts very closely. There is nothing, absolutely nothing in his first post that in any way implies this is actually why Sharrant thinks i am scum (as his theory suggests in the second post i quoted). There is nothing between these posts that suggests Sharrant thinks this is why i am scum. This is a bullshit theory in the first place. If he did actually have this theory at that time, who are the people Sharrant should have been looking into between these posts? People who did support his TRN vote. Those people are no other than Vivax. What are Sharrant's interactions with Vivax during this time. He agreed with Vivax that Hopeless is an okay lynch. Makes any sense? Because to me it doesn't. Sharrant's read on TRN quickly changes from possibly scum to likely town when TRN says "Rayn had told him that he planned to do this exact same thing as scum before". First of all i would like to know what this means, that i would defend a newbie townie to gain town credit when he is lynched as me being mafia? Second of all, i have never said anything like that to TRN.. ever.. I fucking went through my own filter from NMXXXIX to see if i had actually said something like that, i havn't. Sharrant however believes his scumread instantly when they say something like that, doesn't want TRN to explain exactly where i have told him so. Seems like he knows TRN is town in the first place, or for some other reasons does not want to question TRN's statement and takes it as face value. ##Vote: Sharrant | ||
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Vivax
21768 Posts
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Vivax
21768 Posts
brb later | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
Back to the drawing board! | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
##vote yamato Word on the street is his scum play is obvious. I have never seen it myself but this game is looking very very different from town. VE implied that he had some sort of IRL issue that was causing him to be less active. That's what it looks like, but Yamato never said anything about his activity. On April 22 2013 16:58 yamato77 wrote: If you guys are lucky, I'll tell you who mafia is tomorrow. By that I mean identify the whole team. Or, at least, the 5 people I'm most suspicious of at that time. How is this even possible at this point?? DH, afk Tube, afk Drazak, afk Clarity, afk I've seen from his town games, he likes to investigate people one at a time, instead of watching and making a list. He has changed to the making a list method because he is half assing it as scum, a role he hates playing. | ||
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Sylencia
Australia1057 Posts
Notes: - I don't care about meta reads very much. It's easy to manipulate, especially when people outright say 'based on X's meta, he is acting like his town self'. Unless it's obvious, I generally disregard meta arguments. Comments / Observations: - Oats v Palmar early on. The way I read it, Oats seemingly made a joke statement about Palmar, yet the response was ever so serious. Palmar: Is your vote just parked on Oats while you look for actual suspicious people or do you seriously believe that Oats was calling you out there? Since it's instant majority lynch, a single vote doesn't really matter until we get to 10+ votes, but I'm just interested if your read on Oats has changed since the initial accusation. - I was actually suspicious of gemoript due to the super weak town reads / don't kill these guys yet post until the hydra cut occurred, and valid points have been raised about that action, but I don't really want to talk about that any further. On April 22 2013 05:20 Sharrant wrote: Noticed this too, I think Sylencia would be a good lynch today as well. Based on one statement I make which isn't indicative of anything whatsoever makes you think I'm scummy? It's fine if you're accusing me if you have a case but casual accusations with no followups don't sit well with me since it ends up being bait for people to jump on. So other than the lack of activity which I have shown thus far, are there any other points you'd like to make? On April 22 2013 10:24 ObviousOne wrote: @Sylencia, I would be most pleased if you could follow up with reads as you have them instead of posting them in batches, especially considering I have witnessed your activity levels in at least one past game where you post from work (This Town Ain't Big Enough, for example) so even if your questions are repeats of things that happen on future pages it would help a lot with getting a read on you to bang them out. I don't think you're scum necessarily yet; I just want to see more from you. Help me out? Trying. Not easy though, 20 pages of catchup doesn't make it easy to digest the content. On April 22 2013 10:32 TheRavensName wrote: I would be against lynching Rayn. In one of the Newbie games we played together we were in a similar situation and he took the opportunity to rip through me and just tunnel the entire game, so I think if he was scum this would be unlike him and I feel like I could have been a pretty easy push if he wanted to since he managed to basically do it before off less, even if there are much better people here who could see through it. (Unless he wantsto be my budy. dun dun dun.) In the same vain, I think Sharrant started out by taking a really easy way out of attacking me right out the gate and then just focuses on me and pushes around till hearing a few people saying that I was at least not scum, and then hops on Rayn without any real expliantion besides that hes going after BM for the miller soft claim and the fact that BM seems to be being useless, but that makes Ray more scummy then BM or someone else when Ray is actually being fairly active? So based off what I can figure out, I dislike Sharrant. He was convinced I was vote worthy, then hoped off before I got a chance to respond, but doesn't want to make a comment on BM til lBM shows up. Seems sketchy for me, and would probably be my vote target at the moment, but there is plenty of reading to be done and lots of time for more things to read. From the pages regarding TRN and Rayn, both have been hard at work defending each other, though I don't really understand the point being raised about why Rayn isn't scum. Was he scum when he tunneled or was he town? Rayn has shown tendencies in other games to shotgun vote and accuse others, and it's seen here and from your games he can tunnel too. His behaviour is erratic and so unless there's points regarding the content being townie, I don't think anything can be said about the way he plays. You dislike Sharrant, so does that mean you suspect him or are you just putting it out there? Does Rayn's activity put him in the town books for you, because while it can be used as a basis for a case when none others appear, it's pretty alignment indicitive. If it's not part of your reasoning behind it, why is rayn already town in your eyes? (Okay, seems like this is asked later on, but I'm leaving it here as per OO's request) On April 22 2013 10:46 TheRavensName wrote: Its enough that I like him a little more then everyone else. I am taking it with a grain of salt though. I was under the impression that out of 25 people one should do what they can to try and limit the number just a little bit to a more managable size. I'm somewhat doing the same, so I'm wondering how you can see someone as town without looking at the whole picture. I haven't really got any town reads due to this, but the fact you're able to either means you're doing something wrong, or you know something we don't. - Following from this there's a clear TRN-Sharrant-Rayn argument breaking out, with Sharrant backtracking on past accusations and rayn aggressively defending while accusing Sharrant as well. Rayn: Pushing for all millers to die (and voting on it) on day 1 honestly doesn't sound like a great plan. It wastes days where there's actually stuff to analyse, it creates a lazy town atmosphere which only helps scum, and with that comes a lot less conversation. You said you thought that BM was scum but what makes him so much more scummy at the time than someone else with low number of posts and providing just words and not content (eg. me)? In any case: On April 22 2013 01:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: Anyone who claims miller on D1 should be lynched. ##Vote: Bill Murray On April 22 2013 07:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am not trying to "policy lynch" BM. I think BM is scum. Bringing up the miller policy into this discussion adds nothing, because it's irrelevant regarding my reasons for wanting to lynch BM. This looks so dumb honestly. Ok, I'm done for now, ##vote rayn at the moment because of the weirdest irregularities in posts. | ||
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TheRavensName
United States911 Posts
On April 22 2013 12:46 TheRavensName wrote: Wos, could you please post some reads of your own, like ones on Sharrant and Ray seeing as how they seem to want to go at it and you shot only my read on one of them and ignored the other, who you have mostly been ignoring all game FoS on WoS seeing as how he has time to make comment that do nothing but not answer questions that would actually force him to post a read on people hes yelling at others for posting a flawed read on. | ||
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TheRavensName
United States911 Posts
On April 22 2013 20:45 Sylencia wrote: Based on one statement I make which isn't indicative of anything whatsoever makes you think I'm scummy? It's fine if you're accusing me if you have a case but casual accusations with no followups don't sit well with me since it ends up being bait for people to jump on. I'm somewhat doing the same, so I'm wondering how you can see someone as town without looking at the whole picture. I haven't really got any town reads due to this, but the fact you're able to either means you're doing something wrong, or you know something we don't. - Following from this there's a clear TRN-Sharrant-Rayn argument breaking out, with Sharrant backtracking on past accusations and rayn aggressively defending while accusing Sharrant as well. Rayn: Pushing for all millers to die (and voting on it) on day 1 honestly doesn't sound like a great plan. It wastes days where there's actually stuff to analyse, it creates a lazy town atmosphere which only helps scum, and with that comes a lot less conversation. You said you thought that BM was scum but what makes him so much more scummy at the time than someone else with low number of posts and providing just words and not content (eg. me)? In any case: This looks so dumb honestly. Ok, I'm done for now, ##vote rayn at the moment because of the weirdest irregularities in posts. Sharrant's done that a lot this game. As for Rayn, I guess I don't know what to think about him right now. It doesn't help the two real people until this oint that have been attacking my town read on him are people I dislike so... there is that. But when I read Rayn's statement about the miller lynch being more of a scummy time to claim then because hes a miller it makes more sense to me, especially when you couple with BM lurked for quite a bit after his claim then coming back and calling it a joke when he comes back and see people were upset with it and it lends itself to the gamble of: "I'm mr Mafia, please don't check me cause I am the miller and don't worry about me guys cause I'm town and you all bought that right?" But that is just my opinion. | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
Right now it looks like you are voting him because he wanted to lynch BM due to his claiming, but said it wasn't a policy lynch. Is that it? Rayn thinks the claim makes BM scum. That is why he doesn't consider it a policy lynch. I get how it can seem like a contradiction, but it all comes down to how you define the phrase "policy lynch." | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On April 22 2013 19:47 Vivax wrote: Sharrant has actually pointed out how you came up with saying that you don't want to policy lynch BM, but lynch him cause he's scum, whereas in earlier posts you kept saying "lynch everyone who claims miller". Yes but in the latest post of his that's no longer a reason for me to be mafia (as he between those posts i quoted said he agreed with my explanation). The reason for me being mafia suddenly changes into "rayn is trying to gain credit by lynching town!TRN" which definitely does not hold water. Can you read Sharrant's filter and tell me how do you think he could possibly have ended up into that kind of a conclusion? I can't see it, there is nothing that points in that direction before him flat out saying so to ShiaoPi. Same question could be asked from kush. Discretit my case if you think it's bad, don't discredit me without saying why you think my case is bad. | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
No content=LYNCH. Good luck yamato. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
Looking back at it the Meta defense was pretty terrible, seeing as how in the same game he said that defending noob towns that would flip such was an easy scum tactic and one he had his partner use.... so yay... unsure what to think again. Point out to me where i have ever said so. For the record, Sharrant turned this into: It was part of the thought process that got me to look at you in the first place. Obviously TRN is not getting lynched so there is no credit for you to gain from it anymore. It is even, apparently, something you told TRN that you would do as mafia (though you did not state you would do it specifically to him). First of all, this is a straight out twisting TRN's words. TRN has not said i have done something like that, he said i had my partner do so. Second, i have not said so, ever, and Sharrant is trusting his scumread TRN (at that time) without wanting to know where i have said so. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
Can you read Sharrant's filter and tell me how do you think he could possibly have ended up into that kind of a conclusion? ..and not just flip-flop around the question and the case. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
I'm not discouraging reasonable townreads, I'm trying to keep things objective and informed. The two points against me are my comments on VE's entrance and Vivax/Palmar's entrance posts. For VE, watch carefully: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2013 01:50 Hopeless1der wrote: On March 22 2013 20:48 Blazinghand wrote: Sample PMs: How the fuck is this so difficult to understand? Am I trying to prevent townreads? You could say that. However, the reasoning used to attain a townread on VE was true of literally every player in the game. It's the equivalent of calling anyone who doesn't post for more than an hour scum. Man's gotta sleep right? Same way he has to READ THE OP TO LEARN WHAT HIS ROLE IS??? Vivax/Palmar's openings: Palmar, based on the plethora of information from Vivax's two posts, the first ones in the game, declares Vivax to be unlynchable. Just like that. And that was alright because I felt similar about it. I mean I'd still have an open mind, but Vivax's post did put me onto a townier side of Vivax. My problem with Palmar's post was that he called something really fucking stupid a valuable towntell heuristic. Let me break this shit down: DAY 1 POST timestamp On April 21 2013 16:55 Blazinghand wrote: Vivax's first posts, the ones Palmar was referring to On April 21 2013 18:23 Vivax wrote: Good morning. Is it safe to assume scum didn't post yet? On April 21 2013 18:28 Vivax wrote: Well I don't care that you say no, I'll treat everyone who posted before me as confirmed town for a while. So roughly an hour and a half. In addition there were 15ish posts between 6 players, obs notwithstanding. Also, the game started in the dead of night where I am. Hydra Mini scum in ~30 minutes, 33 posts into the game. Ego Mini: scum posted within an hour of game start. 34 posts in. Noir Mini: scum four minutes and 6 posts into the game British Empire II second post of the game 3 minutes in. Red team's prize Scum in under an hour, 25 posts in. The Game scum 5 minutes in, second post All of these games violate Vivax's heuristic, but fuck me for pointing it out (without proof i guess) and questioning Palmar as to why he felt it was valuable, eh guys? . These are literally games just going down the list of the TL Mafia forum. I'm obviouscum trying to derail town from giving out Completely valid and well thought out town reads based on sound reasoning. Nah, you can all go die in a fire if you want to lynch me for this. As of right now, I'm on Sharrant's side and would lynch rayn. I disllike his backpedal about "policy" miller lynching. I dislike his case overall as it is largely OMGUS, but still asks questions of the person he is accusing. However, his preface to his case was here: On April 22 2013 12:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: Wait what Sharrant.. Are you seriously saying that i'm trying to gain credit from town!TRN lynch on D1 as mafia? That's your conclusion? On April 22 2013 12:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes Sharrant, where are the other mafia players voting for TRN so that i can gain credit from the lynch? These two quotes don't accomplish anything to me. He's just throwing the question back at sharrant like a stall tactic of feigning disbelief. For having come up with a scumread on Sharrant it seems grounded in the fact that Sharrant is wrong, not necessarily scum. On April 22 2013 12:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: I fail to see how Sharrant can possibly think i am taking his "bait" and defending town!TRN (as he's now saying) as mafia. If TRN was my lynchbait, i would need my teammates to vote for him to gain the credit, otherwise defending him is useless for me. There is/was noone else voting for TRN. That's the worst reasoning to backpedal from a scumread i have ever heard. On top of that, Sharrant obviously hasn't even read why i think TRN is town. Hint: The post where i answer OO about him. "If I WERE mafia, blah blah blah" No. I say you ARE mafia. ##Vote: raynpelikoneet | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
On April 22 2013 21:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: kush, how about you just answer this: ..and not just flip-flop around the question and the case. maybe he has more than one reason for thinking you are scum? he thinks you are scum because you are pushing a mislynch on a newbie or something I dont know! your shitty argument was for the most part tldr honestly. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
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