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11589 Posts
On May 07 2013 02:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 02:00 yamato77 wrote:On May 07 2013 01:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On May 07 2013 01:55 yamato77 wrote:
Idk dude, it seems like your plan is designed to keep Palmar alive rather than actually figure out his true alignment. He claims to have an information role. I wish for him to live another day to acquire said information. ...this is scummy how? Because the information it supposedly gains us is only useful if he's town, and it's not even necessarily that useful in the first place. Yes, and there's no downside to letting him live for a day more to have a practically confirmed BC in case he IS town. When Palmar flips and he flips green BC is in a whole lotta shit. If we confirm he's insane and not paranoid and he flips cop then we might not actually end up killing BC, saving us a potential mislynch. Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 02:01 yamato77 wrote:On May 07 2013 01:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also if I'm scum with Palmar why the hell would I want you off the table when Hopeless flips town? So you look good when everyone else decides to lynch me? Fair point, but I won't let you get lynched.
I'll have to mull it over.
I guess I'm fine with killing off Hopeless today, but something feels off about the lynch. I don't like how everyone has now invented desire to lynch Hopeless.
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On May 07 2013 02:02 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 02:01 Palmar wrote:
I've gone back about 5 days in your filter and literally the only reasoning is that you expect me to use my role in a certain fashion and I don't do that.
Do you think that makes me scum? I expect you to not be the second worst cop I've ever seen, yes.
I admit, not realizing I could be insane is pretty bad, but again, that's not alignment indicative. Explain to me how that makes me mafia rather than town.
But the other thing isn't that bad at all, except for I overestimated the ability of a few people, most notably Ace, who was third party (I was pretty sure he wasn't scum), of arguing based on cop sanities.
1. I think BC is scum
2. I get guilty on BC
3. I claim and try to get BC lynched.
the key point being 1. I actually think BC is scum, and I did not expect a bunch of people to step up for him and other cops to claim to make it a bit of a mess. I expected town to quietly lynch him, thus accelerating the process of me figuring out my alignment. I would've been okay pushing BC's lynch WITHOUT any kind of a check.
So, since the BC thing was alright, and hell, in your own words:
On May 01 2013 14:58 yamato77 wrote:
So back to Palmar/BC; I find it more likely that Palmar is town than BC. Palmar, while relatively inactive, has attempted at times to push his own agenda in lynching VE, good or bad. He's also had a believable narrative in checking/claiming a red check on BC. Is he capable of this sort of play as mafia? It's possible, but I feel it likely that Palmar is actually telling the truth that he simply cba to do anything. It's an illness that often strikes Palmar.
So given that you actually understand this narrative, what has changed your mind must be the fact that I did not send in a check last night.
Now, explain how that, specifically, makes me mafia. If you cannot, you're full of shit.
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On May 07 2013 02:07 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 02:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On May 07 2013 02:00 yamato77 wrote:On May 07 2013 01:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On May 07 2013 01:55 yamato77 wrote:
Idk dude, it seems like your plan is designed to keep Palmar alive rather than actually figure out his true alignment. He claims to have an information role. I wish for him to live another day to acquire said information. ...this is scummy how? Because the information it supposedly gains us is only useful if he's town, and it's not even necessarily that useful in the first place. Yes, and there's no downside to letting him live for a day more to have a practically confirmed BC in case he IS town. When Palmar flips and he flips green BC is in a whole lotta shit. If we confirm he's insane and not paranoid and he flips cop then we might not actually end up killing BC, saving us a potential mislynch. On May 07 2013 02:01 yamato77 wrote:On May 07 2013 01:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also if I'm scum with Palmar why the hell would I want you off the table when Hopeless flips town? So you look good when everyone else decides to lynch me? Fair point, but I won't let you get lynched. I'll have to mull it over. I guess I'm fine with killing off Hopeless today, but something feels off about the lynch. I don't like how everyone has now invented desire to lynch Hopeless.
It might just be that Hopeless has given up and given permission to the other scum to bus him. He did sound fairly defeatist earlier.
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Unless of course, yamato, you think I'm scum based on my analysis (most of what was written last night).
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11589 Posts
If I take away BC as a possible scum candidate, I have to reassess why I think you could be town, because the logic that says you're town previously included BC actually being mafia.
No longer do I have faith in you being town. Your cop claim is alignment null AT BEST, and so is the rest of your play. At worst, it's pretty fucking scummy. You checked OO, supposedly to confirm your own sanity, and then VE, I suppose in the same pursuit? It seems convenient that you checked VE the night he gets shot by mafia. But as I said before, you've constructed a possible narrative to you not being mafia; you're just bad at cop.
Why should I believe you? I have no reason to trust the word of Palmar this game.
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On May 07 2013 02:24 yamato77 wrote:
If I take away BC as a possible scum candidate, I have to reassess why I think you could be town, because the logic that says you're town previously included BC actually being mafia.
No longer do I have faith in you being town. Your cop claim is alignment null AT BEST, and so is the rest of your play. At worst, it's pretty fucking scummy. You checked OO, supposedly to confirm your own sanity, and then VE, I suppose in the same pursuit? It seems convenient that you checked VE the night he gets shot by mafia. But as I said before, you've constructed a possible narrative to you not being mafia; you're just bad at cop.
Why should I believe you? I have no reason to trust the word of Palmar this game.
My cop claim is null, that is exactly what it is.
You should go back and read some of my scum games, just for enlightenment. I'm sure you'll find them interesting.
I checked VE because why not. Also I was pretty sure he'd flip if he was town so might as well.
You should believe me because of everything else, because there is absolutely nothing objectively scummy about my play, it's a perfect match to what it actually is, lazy Palmar. Yes, lazy Palmar is less readable than super-active mega-town Palmar, but that doesn't make me scum. When I'm scum I do scummy things, like not re-reading the thread and not offering any explanations to whatever I do. I think I've been fairly detailed on what little I have done this game.
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11589 Posts
I highly doubt that you're town. Just because you're not objectively scummy doesn't mean you aren't mafia.
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On May 07 2013 01:53 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 00:46 WaveofShadow wrote:On May 07 2013 00:31 Palmar wrote:
What if I told you I wasn't scum WoS? What if I told you I don't care what you have to say at this point? Then you're an idiot. If you're town, have read all my contributions, and still think I'm scum I don't think you can be helped.
Yeah that's about all you've deigned to say to me all game.
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Something opped into my head while I was filter diving artnanis:
Question, why are BC and Palmar even being talked about as suspects still? if they were both RBed night 1 they should both be town. Unless, were assuming ace got hit night 1 or they double stacked Vivax. Consiering no one was really hard pushing Ace in a way that would suggest he had survived a shot, i find this to be unlikely.. No way Mafia defensive jailed before vigis could shoot. So they must hve blocked one and shot the other, which would mean they would both be town.
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On May 07 2013 03:18 TheRavensName wrote:
Something opped into my head while I was filter diving artnanis:
Question, why are BC and Palmar even being talked about as suspects still? if they were both RBed night 1 they should both be town. Unless, were assuming ace got hit night 1 or they double stacked Vivax. Consiering no one was really hard pushing Ace in a way that would suggest he had survived a shot, i find this to be unlikely.. No way Mafia defensive jailed before vigis could shoot. So they must hve blocked one and shot the other, which would mean they would both be town.
Those scenarios are quite likely, TRN, as well the fact that mafia may not have had 2 (non-vigi)KP at any point during the game, especially since we don't have town vig.
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On May 07 2013 03:21 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 03:18 TheRavensName wrote:
Something opped into my head while I was filter diving artnanis:
Question, why are BC and Palmar even being talked about as suspects still? if they were both RBed night 1 they should both be town. Unless, were assuming ace got hit night 1 or they double stacked Vivax. Consiering no one was really hard pushing Ace in a way that would suggest he had survived a shot, i find this to be unlikely.. No way Mafia defensive jailed before vigis could shoot. So they must hve blocked one and shot the other, which would mean they would both be town. Those scenarios are quite likely, TRN, as well the fact that mafia may not have had 2 (non-vigi)KP at any point during the game, especially since we don't have town vig.
..... Scum started at 5 which means they could shoot twice night 1.
i think a Veteran would have told them not to double stack vivax, and instead shoot him once and shoot someone else, then just shoot him again if they had to. And I don't think a newer player would have noticed the crumb as anything else other then self martyring after a failed lynch they pushed.
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On May 07 2013 03:25 TheRavensName wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 03:21 WaveofShadow wrote:On May 07 2013 03:18 TheRavensName wrote:
Something opped into my head while I was filter diving artnanis:
Question, why are BC and Palmar even being talked about as suspects still? if they were both RBed night 1 they should both be town. Unless, were assuming ace got hit night 1 or they double stacked Vivax. Consiering no one was really hard pushing Ace in a way that would suggest he had survived a shot, i find this to be unlikely.. No way Mafia defensive jailed before vigis could shoot. So they must hve blocked one and shot the other, which would mean they would both be town. Those scenarios are quite likely, TRN, as well the fact that mafia may not have had 2 (non-vigi)KP at any point during the game, especially since we don't have town vig. ..... Scum started at 5 which means they could shoot twice night 1. i think a Veteran would have told them not to double stack vivax, and instead shoot him once and shoot someone else, then just shoot him again if they had to. And I don't think a newer player would have noticed the crumb as anything else other then self martyring after a failed lynch they pushed.
Where does the OP talk about scum KP formula?
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On May 07 2013 03:28 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 03:25 TheRavensName wrote:On May 07 2013 03:21 WaveofShadow wrote:On May 07 2013 03:18 TheRavensName wrote:
Something opped into my head while I was filter diving artnanis:
Question, why are BC and Palmar even being talked about as suspects still? if they were both RBed night 1 they should both be town. Unless, were assuming ace got hit night 1 or they double stacked Vivax. Consiering no one was really hard pushing Ace in a way that would suggest he had survived a shot, i find this to be unlikely.. No way Mafia defensive jailed before vigis could shoot. So they must hve blocked one and shot the other, which would mean they would both be town. Those scenarios are quite likely, TRN, as well the fact that mafia may not have had 2 (non-vigi)KP at any point during the game, especially since we don't have town vig. ..... Scum started at 5 which means they could shoot twice night 1. i think a Veteran would have told them not to double stack vivax, and instead shoot him once and shoot someone else, then just shoot him again if they had to. And I don't think a newer player would have noticed the crumb as anything else other then self martyring after a failed lynch they pushed. Where does the OP talk about scum KP formula?
Ah found it, ok you're right.
Doublestacking is more common than you'd think though.
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On March 22 2013 20:48 Blazinghand wrote:Death Eaters Scum KP is # of scum / 2, rounded down. Scum KP is delivered factionally and cannot be roleblocked. Scum will return normal-looking roles to rolecop checks (ie Scum Vigilante returns Vigilante, Scum Goon returns Vanilla, Scum Framer returns Cop) but with the exception of the Godfather, return Red to DT checks.
You slipping Again WoS? its right there in the role listing. I think a town would have noticed this. Especially sense its been brought up before about why Mafia would bus one about to be mod killed in order to save one of their KP shots.
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On May 07 2013 03:29 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 03:28 WaveofShadow wrote:On May 07 2013 03:25 TheRavensName wrote:On May 07 2013 03:21 WaveofShadow wrote:On May 07 2013 03:18 TheRavensName wrote:
Something opped into my head while I was filter diving artnanis:
Question, why are BC and Palmar even being talked about as suspects still? if they were both RBed night 1 they should both be town. Unless, were assuming ace got hit night 1 or they double stacked Vivax. Consiering no one was really hard pushing Ace in a way that would suggest he had survived a shot, i find this to be unlikely.. No way Mafia defensive jailed before vigis could shoot. So they must hve blocked one and shot the other, which would mean they would both be town. Those scenarios are quite likely, TRN, as well the fact that mafia may not have had 2 (non-vigi)KP at any point during the game, especially since we don't have town vig. ..... Scum started at 5 which means they could shoot twice night 1. i think a Veteran would have told them not to double stack vivax, and instead shoot him once and shoot someone else, then just shoot him again if they had to. And I don't think a newer player would have noticed the crumb as anything else other then self martyring after a failed lynch they pushed. Where does the OP talk about scum KP formula? Ah found it, ok you're right. Doublestacking is more common than you'd think though.
Perhaps when someone is actually a threat and likely to get protection. Vivax just lead a mislynch, which made protection quite unlikely. i don't see why Mafia would throw away their only gauranteed night of double shooting with how much of their team was afk/under suspicion.
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On May 07 2013 03:29 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 03:28 WaveofShadow wrote:On May 07 2013 03:25 TheRavensName wrote:On May 07 2013 03:21 WaveofShadow wrote:On May 07 2013 03:18 TheRavensName wrote:
Something opped into my head while I was filter diving artnanis:
Question, why are BC and Palmar even being talked about as suspects still? if they were both RBed night 1 they should both be town. Unless, were assuming ace got hit night 1 or they double stacked Vivax. Consiering no one was really hard pushing Ace in a way that would suggest he had survived a shot, i find this to be unlikely.. No way Mafia defensive jailed before vigis could shoot. So they must hve blocked one and shot the other, which would mean they would both be town. Those scenarios are quite likely, TRN, as well the fact that mafia may not have had 2 (non-vigi)KP at any point during the game, especially since we don't have town vig. ..... Scum started at 5 which means they could shoot twice night 1. i think a Veteran would have told them not to double stack vivax, and instead shoot him once and shoot someone else, then just shoot him again if they had to. And I don't think a newer player would have noticed the crumb as anything else other then self martyring after a failed lynch they pushed. Where does the OP talk about scum KP formula? Ah found it, ok you're right. Doublestacking is more common than you'd think though.
Burying shots on purpose does happen as well. I still think the only way we resolve this Palmar/BC horseshit that has been going on for days is we lynch one of them. My noose arm(finger?) is getting itchy so can we consolidate on some sort of plan?
If we really think that leaving Palmar alive another day is going to help us and he won't weasel his way out somehow then fine; I'll stave off his lynch one final day, but unless we have conclusive proof based on today's/tonight's actions that he is town I will be voting him and no one else tomorrow.
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On May 07 2013 03:05 yamato77 wrote:
I highly doubt that you're town. Just because you're not objectively scummy doesn't mean you aren't mafia.
"I don't think you've done anything like mafia would do, or acted like mafia, but you're probably mafia anyway"
I don't even know how to argue with this.
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On May 07 2013 03:18 TheRavensName wrote:
Something opped into my head while I was filter diving artnanis:
Question, why are BC and Palmar even being talked about as suspects still? if they were both RBed night 1 they should both be town. Unless, were assuming ace got hit night 1 or they double stacked Vivax. Consiering no one was really hard pushing Ace in a way that would suggest he had survived a shot, i find this to be unlikely.. No way Mafia defensive jailed before vigis could shoot. So they must hve blocked one and shot the other, which would mean they would both be town.
I brought this up earlier. Scum doesn't know Ace is 3rd party for sure though. It could be a veteran too. Also, there is someone that pushed Ace. Yamato kept bringing Ace to the table.
I already talked about this scenario before though.
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11589 Posts
On May 07 2013 03:53 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 03:05 yamato77 wrote:
I highly doubt that you're town. Just because you're not objectively scummy doesn't mean you aren't mafia. "I don't think you've done anything like mafia would do, or acted like mafia, but you're probably mafia anyway" I don't even know how to argue with this.
No, it means you haven't given me any reason to think you're town, and lategame, that's a fucking gigantic problem.
In the games I have played with you when you lived past night 1, I could easily read you as town. Most day 1's I can read you as town. I haven't had a solid town read on you the entire game. That's a problem, Palmar. It's enough for me to want to hang you this late in the game.
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EPT
