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Boardwalk Empire Mafia: Pick Your Power - Page 191

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
April 16 2013 03:34 GMT
#3801
On April 16 2013 12:26 geript wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2013 07:58 Vivax wrote:
If he looks like a great potential mislynch it should be in your interest to try the hardest to figure out his alignment no? Defending him isn't exactly the way to go. You say he could also be lazy scum, are you trying to get him to play in a way to exclude or confirm that possibility?No, you're doing the opposite.

@Mocsta do you remember if it was Vivax or Kush who pointed out Yamato's attack on Hapa in DukeNukem in a similar way?

Sorry I don't know.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 03:35 GMT
#3802
There's also a soft defense of Vivax from VE in responding to palmar.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
April 16 2013 03:36 GMT
#3803
On April 16 2013 12:10 MockArmor wrote:
Guys. Pls refrain from quick votes.

I really think we need to filter dive

And put up dot point cases to substantiate votes.
We shouldn't let scum come in throw a vote and leave
On April 16 2013 12:14 MockArmor wrote:
This situation is reminding me heavily of Mafia lx where random bum lurked to second place.

He never pushed anything and stayed off ppl radar.

In this game two people satisfy that.
Sinani and Shevlocke.

We also know from hydra, scum oats has no issues arguing with me.

vivax
Who did u get a check on...?

On April 16 2013 12:15 MockArmor wrote:
sinani
Why did u activate double lynch?

On April 16 2013 12:21 MockArmor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2013 12:15 geript wrote:
Mocsta who did you check last night?

I will let you know once vivax gives his check result

On April 16 2013 12:28 MockArmor wrote:
I'm comfortable lynching oats based on a few things.

Really disruptive early game

Late game. Oats sheep's. Here he is trying to set the pace

No one has posted logs. If oats is town, surely the start of the qt would be one of the two trying to find alignment. I'm thinking of this as the logs from BH and gk in the game.

Recruiting mason is a null pick for town or scum. Its not kp, but the guy was low on craft list and its better than a vt. And bm choosing jv gives precedent for odd picks.


Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
April 16 2013 03:39 GMT
#3804
I'm comfortable with vivax based on association defended from a few of the flipped scum.

But before voting vivax I need to read his filter to check his stances during the lynches.

His absence is frustrating but it equally applies to most ppl here.

Geript that u r here now trying to solve the game. Is a big plus for u, even though u tunneled keirathi.

As stated before though. I think we need dot point cases instead of OK want to vote for this guy. Scum need to work for this win.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 03:39 GMT
#3805
On April 08 2013 02:45 deconduo wrote:
Seeing as you are having trouble with this Vivax:

-I think X is scummy
-Y votes for X

You seem to think that means I should assume Y is town. This obviously completely wrong. There is nothing stopping Y being scum and X being town.

One of the major things I remember from the podcast about LX was that Vivax had a very odd argument about people who didn't agree with him were scum. It's an argument that he didn't use as Town in the Game from what I remember. But this summary which is pretty spot on IMO is a return to the "if people don't agree with you then they're likely scum" mentality that Vivax attacked deconduo for.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 03:40 GMT
#3806
Meh, I just want the game to be over one way or another honestly. Lynching scum is the easiest way to do that and my time in the next couple of days will be limited to say the least.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
April 16 2013 03:41 GMT
#3807
Geript the key with vivax is descriminating defending a scum buddy vs a townie likely to be future lynched.

E.g. in the game, BH chose the town gk to hard defend. If gk mislynched, he looked good.

The meta defends of vivax is in a similar vein....but.. I do not recall vivax being close to being lynched, so the read did come out a an odd time.

I'm at work on tablet. Can anyone pls summarise oats stance on the scum lynches vs town lynches?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
April 16 2013 03:44 GMT
#3808
Geript.

Can u pls post the vivax quote.

Like I said. I'm at work on tablet. Its hard to filter dive without getting caught
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 03:49 GMT
#3809
On April 13 2013 02:55 Vivax wrote:
Scum always defend their scumbuddies yeah.

Just like OO.
Oh wait.

I find this an exceptionally odd quote. It's like he's very aware of when and how scum bussed. Then he looks for when OO bussed Artanis.

On April 15 2013 13:02 Vivax wrote:
Other incriminating stuff:

Yamato initially wanted to lynch these guys:
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 07 2013 15:13 yamato77 wrote:
Going to bed.

When I wake up tomorrow, I'm taking a look at this list of people:

VE
PALMAR
SINANI
MEAPAK
AUSTIN

One of them will get lynched.





OO deciding to bus artanis at this time:

+ Show Spoiler +
On April 08 2013 08:23 ObviousOne wrote:
British Empire Mini Mafia II [Town]:
Comfortable with 180 when confronted with new information
Openly questions his detractors
Sarcasm/teeth to his posts
Early game attention grabber with BS vote on Marv (wasn't even in the game) - not afraid of the spotlight
Direct/engaged mid-lategame
One of his post-game posts I believe he mentioned before in this game, that he was trying to change up his playstyle a bit:
+ Show Spoiler +
On March 09 2013 09:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Well, just reading the thread and getting reads off that is easy, actually doing analysis on players and posting it and trying to convince others, using meta, etc. is something else and it's not something you bothered with. When I did do so and people barely/didn't respond to it and still happily voted for me, it doesn't particularly make the game very fun.


Fruity Mafia [Town]:
First major thing that stands out to me is how he formulated this post. He talked about 4 other players then said ObviousOne looked bad (I really did, bee tee dubs):
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17802815
He guilted me out of my scum read on Toad (Zessionar in that game):
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17811235
Full of questions / interactions / poking
Was a town power role and got very bold D2 but town confidence overall was high.
Otherwise rather similar to British

TL Mafia LI [Mafia]:
Talks about things mafia would/wouldn't do (his example was scum don't make big slips)
Points out a big scum slip (lol see above)
Posts in a reassuring tone (regarding his own reads)
Attacked inactivity and claims
Post-game confessions:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2012 14:32 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'm surprised so many people thought I was scum, given that I would've done the same lurking as town given the size of the game. I would've posted more if I could but I simply got lost in all the traffic; def won't be playing another 30 player game. The only post that really tipped me off was the one ghost accurately called out, I don't think I would've made that as town but mafia IRC said it was a good idea. Given my early bus on VE after his claim I'd think after VE flipped I'd get a bit more credit too.


Characteristics I picked out from Haunted [2010]:
- Makes summaries {conglomerations of players posts} with blanket statements regarding alignment - I used to do this all the time especially in my earliest games
- Feigned/Real inactivity/unavailability - not necessarily a scum tell but a useful scum tool
- Offers to be "helpful" for a period of time - not taking the initiative and doing something useful himself
- Defensive stance - possibly a product of being under suspicion when being replaced in, but in this game was used to misdirect suspicion on lurkers to non-mafia faction

THIS GAME:
Dismissive in D0, not chasing shadows or anything really
Some concept of a plan presented, not really pushed
Not very inquisitive
Giant poop in the thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18226316
No real back-and-forth happening
Barely here

The OBVIOUS conclusion:

Scum

Spend way more time defending / deflecting than scum hunting, less interactive than his town games. By extension of this, he's missing that edge of sarcasm and incredulity in his voice that is present when he calls people out on their bullshit as town. He doesn't seem interested in getting people to re-factor their reads. Way too defensive to match his town meta in any way.

Added note: his filter is barely 2 pages and we've already been active for four real-time days if I am not fucking up my maths. Both scum game filters were short (less than 3 pages each) and showed him hiding by posting just enough to not be considered a lurker.


Suddenly Artanis is among yamato's scumreads:
+ Show Spoiler +

On April 08 2013 09:42 yamato77 wrote:
Let's lynch Artanis. The fact that the lynch has met resistance and people are arguing about other cases that are "scummier" is a good thing. I love information. OO's analysis of his meta is decent, and coupled with gonzaw's case, I could see Artanus as scum.

As for who to vig, it should obviously be sinani. If you read his filter, he posts opportunistically, and generally has little to say. One post in particular I called out as being especially horrible, the one where he gives his "thoughts" on the lynch candidates and is null on three out of four. I was scum with him in Red Team's Prize, and he's acting similar to that game, here his posting in the thread is quiet and not forceful. His "push" of BM as a vig shot is also terrible, because I actually have him down as likely town.

As for myself, since people seem to think I need to contribute more, meh. I gave the game the start I wanted and I have some decent town reads out of that, so as far as continuing a high level of activity, I don't feel that it's necessary. I'm doing my own scum hunting, and I make myself known throughout the day on where I'm at. If I drop off the face of the planet, feel free to shoot/lynch me, but I'm not going to be hyperactive in these games anymore.



Shortly after OO bussed, yamato adds Artanis to those he would lynch, without fighting for his own choices.


Not only that, there's reasonable soft defenses of multiple scum buddies.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 03:50 GMT
#3810
On April 08 2013 01:29 VisceraEyes wrote:
In what way is this post

Show nested quote +
On April 07 2013 23:35 Vivax wrote:
Anyone else finding S & B scummy?


any different from this post?

Show nested quote +
On April 07 2013 10:06 deconduo wrote:
Yeah, after reading his filter again

## Vote strongandbig


You accuse Vivax of trying to "bandwagon" SnB but you yourself opened your "content" by similarly voting SnB with no reasoning. You accuse Vivax of not reading the thread, but somehow you missed the fact that gonzaw was scheduled for an earth-shattering scum-destroying case at the end of his countdown?

Palmar I'm quite interested in why you think decon is town. That feels kinda like fucking bullshit from you.

##Unvote
##Vote deconduo

geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 03:52 GMT
#3811
fwiw It's on page 68 if you're interested in looking up context later.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
April 16 2013 04:00 GMT
#3812
OK.. If vivax is top scum lynch based on associations

Do we use the double lynch?

I.e. do u assume someone is traitor or not.

I'm inclined to go with one lynch. That way if game proceeds we potentially have another townie, as oats can't be traitor.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 04:03 GMT
#3813
I'm not quite sure how we can just lynch 1 guy; if we can find a way, i think it's probably a decent idea. If there's scum + traitor, then it's Sinani and like yamato or shelvocke most likely. I can be scum but not traitor.
Shelvocke
Profile Joined March 2013
Grenada70 Posts
April 16 2013 04:04 GMT
#3814
##Vote Vivax
##Vote Oatsmaster


Oatsmaster: I don't think he's trying to find mafia. I'm too lazy to copy posts from the qt, but it's pretty much just MZ (and RO to a lesser extent) giving reasons and making points and asking Oats "town or scum" and oats will reply with a meaningless one-liner. He doesn't make any effort to say anything productive of his own. It's not what I expect from a town player who took a mason role.


Also nobody should be voting for yamato today. The fact that keirathi was killed last night is a strong indication that the last mafia member has to fear a cop check. As someone with a green check already on him, yamato doesn't have any reason to fear a cop.
Water, water everywhere, but not a drop to drink.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 04:05 GMT
#3815
I highly doubt there is a traitor honestly. Only 2 people could've picked it (Shelvocke/Yamato); I guess theoretically RO could've. I doubt that though. If anyone did, I'd expect it'd be Yamato. Even then I'd expect that he'd grab Reclusive Traitor as it's something more in his control and gives information if the scum guess fails.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 04:06 GMT
#3816
On April 16 2013 13:04 Shelvocke wrote:
##Vote Vivax
##Vote Oatsmaster


Oatsmaster: I don't think he's trying to find mafia. I'm too lazy to copy posts from the qt, but it's pretty much just MZ (and RO to a lesser extent) giving reasons and making points and asking Oats "town or scum" and oats will reply with a meaningless one-liner. He doesn't make any effort to say anything productive of his own. It's not what I expect from a town player who took a mason role.


Also nobody should be voting for yamato today. The fact that keirathi was killed last night is a strong indication that the last mafia member has to fear a cop check. As someone with a green check already on him, yamato doesn't have any reason to fear a cop.

I'll look into this line of thinking later... must sleep.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
April 16 2013 04:13 GMT
#3817
The guy with no check is cancel if I recall.

We really need vivax to share his check.

Shevlocke, any reason you didn't share this first opinion yesterday?

I also don't like your conclusion with kei being shot for being DT.
He was also a town contributor. So this jump to high DT value whilst interesting is too black/white for my liking.

Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
April 16 2013 04:15 GMT
#3818
can we vote no lynch for second vote?
Shelvocke
Profile Joined March 2013
Grenada70 Posts
April 16 2013 04:22 GMT
#3819
On April 16 2013 13:13 Mocsta wrote:
The guy with no check is cancel if I recall.

We really need vivax to share his check.

Shevlocke, any reason you didn't share this first opinion yesterday?

I also don't like your conclusion with kei being shot for being DT.
He was also a town contributor. So this jump to high DT value whilst interesting is too black/white for my liking.



Because it was night. I told you the important part. It shouldn't be too hard for you to draw conclusions from that.

As for the Keirathi shot, it's just simple logic. Is it the only possible explanation? No, but it's the one that makes best sense to me. Keirathi spent the latter part of the day saying that he wished he was dead and defending himself. That's not someone you expect mafia to shoot.
Water, water everywhere, but not a drop to drink.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
April 16 2013 04:33 GMT
#3820
Cool. That I understand.

So why shoot kei over vivax then? Both are alignment cops.

Your second para indicates vivax is top read.

The first para indicates oats?

In case their is a traitor, I think it would be ideal to only vote 1 person
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