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On March 18 2013 11:43 sciberbia wrote:
Kitaman, do you have an opinion on zarepath?
Also DYH, did you find anything interesting in zarepath's meta?
I guess I'll go make a votecount myself. Seems like we are between zarepath and greymist tho.
I did find some interesting corroborating evidence in his meta, but I also ran into a some frustration in the form of his old scum game that I can't decide whether or not is a good heuristic.
I can't really compare activity between his past games and this one because we know that he can't be as active on weekends, and that has cut down his post count for this day 1.
What I looked at was tone. Hopeless, Scib, and I all separately took issue with the tone of zarepath's posts. Hopeless thought that he seemed like he was looking for things to say, stances to take. Scib thought that his heart wasn't in it, that he was producing generic pro-town advice to fake being town. I said that I felt like his scumhunting felt shallow, that he was shuffling players into his suspicions using silly categories.
That kind of critique could not be made of the day1 posts of those 3 town games I linked earlier. In those games his tone is very active, even when he is uncertain (Clicky). Note that in that post his tone is completely different than what we have seen in this game, it looks like he isn't just commenting, he is participating. The one big thing I would draw your attention to in that post is that he states, "My reads are all very close to null at this point on everyone. ". At this point in that game he has even fewer solid reads than he has shown in this one. And yet, his tone is so incredibly superior.
The frustration comes with his really old scum game. Some things fit: the posting of generic pro-town advice, the passive tone in a lot of his posts. Other things do not: the bold strokes of suggesting an rng lynch right off the bat, the hard defense of the day1 townie lynch, and the way he responds to slOosh's case.
I can't decide whether or not to throw out this game because of it's age or to leave it in there and just have it be a non-alignment indicative piece of evidence.
tl;dr - I think zarepath's meta supports him being scum this game mainly by analyzing tone.
(PS. Please check me on all this, I don't want to be screwed by confirmation bias.)
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unofficial, possibly incorrect, vote count:
goodkarma (3): GreYMisT, kitaman, kenpachi
GreYMisT (9): Ryu, GK, Vivax, Geript, coagulation, cosmicomics, wade fell, wiggles, TPS
zarepath (5): sciberbia, Hopeless1der, DYH, DP, layabout
DoYouHas (1): TranceStorm
DarthPunk (5): VE, WoS, glurio, Coagulation, zarepath
not voting (2): Hyaach, TestSubject893
If a host could give an official one that would be great.
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I just switched to GreYMisT based mostly off of a look through his filter and the timing of his chiming in on other people who are already being suspected by others, or how almost everyone he mentions looks maybe scummy but he's not sure. (I recognize I am also kind of guilty of that last point, but I personally know I'm not scum, so there's that.)
Unvote: DarthPunk
Vote: GreYMisT
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updated unofficial vote count
goodkarma (2): GreYMisT, kitaman
GreYMisT (11): Ryu, GK, Vivax, Geript, coagulation, cosmicomics, wade fell, wiggles, TPS, kenpachi, zarepath
zarepath (5): sciberbia, Hopeless1der, DYH, DP, layabout
DoYouHas (1): TranceStorm
DarthPunk (4): VE, WoS, glurio, Coagulation
not voting (2): Hyaach, TestSubject893
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DYH, I just did a quick check for you and I disagree with you about Zarepath's scumminess. 
I don't know what to tell you about tone. I've honestly felt pretty uncertain on Day 1 of every game I play, but I think that I have possibly been a little more scared off because of the large player pool (the biggest game I've been in was 15 players, I think). Picking particular candidates out of a pool of so many on Day 1 with so little info when I can barely remember who is who has been difficult, especially considering my inability to participate all weekend.
To be fair, I think you can throw out my mafia game because it was from so long ago and I like to think that I would play it very differently now.
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On March 18 2013 09:19 sciberbia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 08:51 zarepath wrote:On March 17 2013 08:45 cosmicomics wrote:On March 17 2013 06:16 layabout wrote:On March 17 2013 05:51 cosmicomics wrote:On March 16 2013 23:42 Vivax wrote:
Sandro:
I don't like this post.
Quick conclusions. No arguments, no read on BH and VE (just being silly) and conclusive reads on people I actually find scummy. Townish reads on a guy who contributed something pointless. Not the sandro I would expect as town. Leaning red.
What does town sandro look like? What do you think of DarthPunk? You can see in the nested quotes that geript drops RNG for setup spec "I thought I couldn't use it from what was said in pregame and the tarot stuff got me interested." and then moves into asking about a different topic "How do you feel about this being based on some sort of tarot stuff?" So DarthPunk is acting as if geript is still attempting his RNG stuff (he isn't) and trying to lynch him off that, and doesn't actually address him. How do you get so mad at someone you totally dismiss his posting so quickly?
##Vote: DarthPunk
At the same time, do you really see scum laying a vote down that early? I'll have to check, but I dont' think thread sentiment was exactly pushing for a geript lynch. Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 09:03 zarepath wrote:
Okay, I just poked in to catch up as much as I can -- sorry that I am looking scummy; I will be able to participate much more during the week (as opposed to the weekend) and will hopefully be able to prove my alignment in a better fashion than I have thus far.
Darth Punk was one of something like 8 different people I suspected yesterday, and from the last couple of pages it seems as though his defense of other people's pressure hasn't been stellar. Mainly, all of his reads have been people who have been pressuring him, and much of his text is defending the first day of his game, not actively trying to find out who is scum.
The people he lists as scum suspects are not people he's trying to get others to lynch; it's entirely responsive.
I don't know if anybody else has mentioned this, but his first post seemed almost suspiciously over the top (I'm so excited for this game!), and that's another reason I feel okay about lynching him.
I wish I'd had time to look over some more candidates, but at this moment (and time is running short) I don't feel too bad about throwing my vote onto DarthPunk.
##Vote: DarthPunk Why did you defend DP from cosmicomics yesterday if you thought his first post was suspiciously over the top and you suspected him?
@zarepath
Can you answer to this?
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Sidenote: how do you find the games someone's been in? Just by manually looking into all the games or is there another way?
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On March 18 2013 12:15 sciberbia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 09:19 sciberbia wrote:On March 17 2013 08:51 zarepath wrote:On March 17 2013 08:45 cosmicomics wrote:On March 17 2013 06:16 layabout wrote:On March 17 2013 05:51 cosmicomics wrote:On March 16 2013 23:42 Vivax wrote:
Sandro:
I don't like this post.
Quick conclusions. No arguments, no read on BH and VE (just being silly) and conclusive reads on people I actually find scummy. Townish reads on a guy who contributed something pointless. Not the sandro I would expect as town. Leaning red.
What does town sandro look like? What do you think of DarthPunk? You can see in the nested quotes that geript drops RNG for setup spec "I thought I couldn't use it from what was said in pregame and the tarot stuff got me interested." and then moves into asking about a different topic "How do you feel about this being based on some sort of tarot stuff?" So DarthPunk is acting as if geript is still attempting his RNG stuff (he isn't) and trying to lynch him off that, and doesn't actually address him. How do you get so mad at someone you totally dismiss his posting so quickly?
##Vote: DarthPunk
At the same time, do you really see scum laying a vote down that early? I'll have to check, but I dont' think thread sentiment was exactly pushing for a geript lynch. On March 18 2013 09:03 zarepath wrote:
Okay, I just poked in to catch up as much as I can -- sorry that I am looking scummy; I will be able to participate much more during the week (as opposed to the weekend) and will hopefully be able to prove my alignment in a better fashion than I have thus far.
Darth Punk was one of something like 8 different people I suspected yesterday, and from the last couple of pages it seems as though his defense of other people's pressure hasn't been stellar. Mainly, all of his reads have been people who have been pressuring him, and much of his text is defending the first day of his game, not actively trying to find out who is scum.
The people he lists as scum suspects are not people he's trying to get others to lynch; it's entirely responsive.
I don't know if anybody else has mentioned this, but his first post seemed almost suspiciously over the top (I'm so excited for this game!), and that's another reason I feel okay about lynching him.
I wish I'd had time to look over some more candidates, but at this moment (and time is running short) I don't feel too bad about throwing my vote onto DarthPunk.
##Vote: DarthPunk Why did you defend DP from cosmicomics yesterday if you thought his first post was suspiciously over the top and you suspected him? @zarepath Can you answer to this?
This is a good point. It wasn't a soft defense so much as something that needed to be considered and answered if you were to make a case on him. He'd been on my radar at the time. Tonight, when I started trying to catch up, I saw DP's defenses which seemed really OMGUSy and a total lack of pro-town argument (other than prevent his own mislynch), and figured it was a good vote -- for some reaosn I thought the lynch deadline was going to be quite soon, and was actually worried that I'd already missed it when I came into the thread and just tried to get a vote down asaply.
Now I'm on greymist because I think it's coming down between me and him, and I don't like his pattern of seeding suspicion onto players and then acting unsure, or letting others do the work.
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On March 18 2013 12:21 geript wrote:
Sidenote: how do you find the games someone's been in? Just by manually looking into all the games or is there another way?
I go to their profile, click posts, then work back through them, any mafia title you find where the person posts more than 10-20 times they probably played in, just clicky and check the filter list.
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On March 18 2013 12:12 zarepath wrote:
I just switched to GreYMisT based mostly off of a look through his filter and the timing of his chiming in on other people who are already being suspected by others, or how almost everyone he mentions looks maybe scummy but he's not sure. (I recognize I am also kind of guilty of that last point, but I personally know I'm not scum, so there's that.)
Unvote: DarthPunk
Vote: GreYMisT
LOL you just vote for whoever is popular to vote for at the time. You scum bro.
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On March 18 2013 11:43 sciberbia wrote:
Kitaman, do you have an opinion on zarepath?
Like I mentioned earlier, I think his first big post was more of a "post for the sake of posting" than anything actually meaningful. I am bothered by his swap to GreYMisT, after failing to mention him at all earlier than the day.
Between the two, I'm sticking with GreYMisT though. Time for bed. Hope to start the work week off with a scumflip.
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3 and a half hours to deadline
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No DYH, I think you're right.
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Alright, so I finally got caught up. Here's what I've got to say.
GreYMisT seems to be doing the martyr thing we saw vivax and prome do in LX. Its a scummy play and I think its our greatest evidence against anyone right now, so I'll be voting for him.
##Vote: GreYMisT
I'm not sure why DP was getting so much heat earlier, I was happy with his explanation and liked his case against VE. VE made himself look pretty bad and has moved himself to a solid scumread in my book with his comments about town not being able to vote to influence behavior. I refuse to believe he has such a fundamental misunderstanding of the game that he believes that to be true.
I've been putting some thought into BH too and he's definitely someone I'm leaning more and more scum on. He seems to be of the mentality that he's made up his mind on who is scum (apparently me included, for daring to disagree with the mighty BH) and he'll come up with reasons for it later. It made sense last game when he was a cop, but even if he is one this game he can't have checked yet. It adds up to scummy play in my eyes.
Geript and zare have not done themselves any favors either. They still look bad and worse.
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Alright reading through zare's filter his lack of commitment and hardcore line of questioning strikes me as the differences between his play here and in NMM 37, the only game in which I have played with him. He makes an early weak suspicion case against me and does not follow up on it whatsoever, completely ignoring the fact that he drew suspicion on me whatsoever despite me responding to him. His activity does go down from its usual on weekends that is true, but even with that excuse his play seems much weaker than the town play I'm used to seeing from zare.
Usually much stronger cases and less sheeping. My meta reads are overall fairly weak thus far into my mafia career though so I'm not yet comfortable lynching zare based on that evidence. I'm inclined to agree with geript's thoughts of 'waiting it out' to see if his play improves since GM seems to be the stronger choice for today. Zare wouldn't mind a response to MY response to your earlier suspicion against me.
As for GM, he holds something in common with zare, in that he also brings up suspicion against me, calls me scummier than DarthPunk, doesn't back it up, and then ignores me completely. His AHA! post reeks of bad towny play (stupid gambit is stupid), but isn't Grey supposed to be a mafia veteran? That kind of 'trap' is something that zare tried to spring on the rest of the town AS a townie in NMM 37 but it only ended up muddling up the whole thread for that day and accomplishing nothing. Greymist's trap seems like an easy way to hide behind the fact that he couldn't be assed to contribute in a positive way and to jump on the first person to call him out for being gone (whether for legit reasons or not) as others have pointed out.
It's nice that other people seem to think DP isn't scummy anymore btw, (and the flailing around once under heavy suspicion seems more like a towny think to do than scum) so he's null for me right now. I still don't lke the stance on lurkers despite how he described it.
Unvote: DarthPunk
Vote GreYMisT
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Deadline has been extended for 1 hour. Continue your work mortals
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VOTE COUNT!
ThePeashooter (0): Wade Fell, VisceraEyes, Coagulation
goodkarma (1): Mr. Wiggles, kitaman27, VisceraEyes, GreYMisT, kitaman27, Kenpachi
Coagulation (0): ThePeashooter
GreYMisT (12): goodkarma, RyuSuzaku, goodkarma, Vivax, geript, ThePeashooter, cosmicomics, Wade Fell, Mr. Wiggles, Kenpachi, zarepath, kitaman27, TestSubject893, WaveofShadow
testsubject893 (0): Wade Fell
Sandroba (0): goodkarma, glurio
zarepath (6): geript, sciberbia, Hopeless1der, DoYouHas, DarthPunk, layabout, geript
DoYouHas (1): TranceStorm
cosmicomics (0): Vivax
DarthPunk (3): layabout, VisceraEyes, [s]WaveofShadow[s], glurio, Coagulation, zarepath, cosmicomics
Vivax (0):: kitaman27, Coagulation
VisceraEyes (0): DarthPunk
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The deadline is not extended, the day ends in 30 minutes roughly.
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EPT
