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##Vote: marvellosity
Grrrrrrr. Mafia tricksy this game.
That hapa case I posted isn't applicable to this game, at least not to any real extent, because he was mainly focused on marv being lazy after a string of scum games (not the case here) AND that was a D2 case to actually CATCH him before LYLO (not the case here). I was really hoping that someone to use that case to defend him a little, see if we could catch multiple folks today. No dice.
YamatoOn March 17 2013 05:51 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 05:48 yamato77 wrote:
Stop over-thinking this. This IS NOT town marvellosity. I know it for a fact. Quoted for later purposes. I dunno right now whether you're town or scum. If you're town, go hunt NOT MARV. marv is caught. Commenting on it every 15 minutes does nothing, and 3/4 of the thread was super inactive today. I was hoping that someone would come out of the woodwork, defend marv, take the hapa bait, because we don't win this game by lynching marv. I guarantee you marv isn't all 5 scum players by himself. Yes, this is scum marv, but he's got buddies and we kind of have to catch them too, and just yelling that it's scum marv over and over and over doesn't do that.
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hiro, marv.
"marv was wrong about foolishness" is not exactly a full summary of the reasons he's mafia.
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At the very least, you think that townmarv is left for lylo?
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5 folks die overnight and you think cora was mafia?
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So we just magically had 3 extra KP last night? Stutters is lying and controls some multi-KP sleeper cell? You think that a death miller + multiple unknown extra KP last night is more likely than cora being town?
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Wait...Hiro, you're claiming that Vivax is a politician and has used that power to steal a vote and put it on himself at practically the beginning of a day?
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I'll vote marv or vivax. Willing to believe this, given Vivax's wrong-kind-of-scummy play + unclaimed votestealing, especially in light of cora's votestealing probably being from town given the NKs last night.
Moreover, I don't really understand why scumHiro would do this. Most of the way through a day in which votes are spread out on 4 different people? Even if hiro and marv are scumbuddies and this is a big ploy to save him, mafia should have been able to push SOMEONE who isn't mafia given our activity this weekend and the number of targets available.
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On March 18 2013 07:12 slOosh wrote:
@austin
scum only need 1 mislynch in the game to win. They can do whatever they want without fear of repercussions if it means they get the final mislynch. Would townHiro do what he did? I haven't played with blue hiro before/enough to have a feel for it, but I don't think it's that odd. townread on marv, and he doesn't mention ANY read on vivax until today, where vivax is suddenly scum and hiro is voting for him. Seems consistent with a DT.
You're right about snb though, it's an odd choice for a D1 check.
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So, we lynch marv. He's still the majority candidate; he's still scum. If hiro's ACTUALLY a cop, he gets another check off, or dies, or absorbs a RB if there actually is one.
For anyone not following the voting thread, we also have this:On March 18 2013 07:21 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm torn between vivax and Marv. Seriously guys, we should be voting Cross for a free scumlynch which will buy us a day. We need to consolidate though so I'm going vivax for now. Going to weigh them though.
On March 18 2013 07:27 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 07:24 Vivax wrote:
Hey stutters thanks for losing us the game and then voting for the guy defending the townie you shot.
Maybe do something right for once? Trying to fake emotion so we think you're actually town?
On March 18 2013 07:18 Stutters695 wrote:
##vote: Vivax
On March 18 2013 07:42 Stutters695 wrote:
##unvote
##vote: Marvellosity
Check the timestamps:
Votes vivax
THEN posts that he's "torn between marv and vivax," but thinks we should be voting crossfire
Then responds to vivax with an indication that he thinks vivax is mafia
Then ninja votes marv
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On March 18 2013 07:50 Crossfire99 wrote:
Why is marv scum? Explain in detail cause I don't see it.
marv is around at lylo. This should not be the case. EVEN IF he were town and wrong all game, he's one of the few, if not the only, remaining player who has been putting in effort and organizing town. Scum can't just rely on him being wrong forever, and if they took him out then town loses someone who puts in a ton of effort and is pushy with his votes - someone who is threatening to scum.
I don't think Foolishness's case is slam-dunk, but as of today we know Foolishness was town. He was actually trying to trap marv and observe marv's reaction. I had Foolishness as scum, but we know that's not the case now. Nobody seems to be factoring this into things, but Foolishness's reads are now valid and worth considering.
Some of it is personal stuff. There are some buddy-ish posts between marv and I, which I should have noticed more. Normally, if marv is town, we argue about a decent number of things. Here, I agreed with his Foolishness read, but he's been scummy on slOosh for a bit now and I've been townie. When marv is townie and I disagree with him, he's all over my ass for being an idiot (See: stupid ass LIX where marv is right about near EVERYTHING and I'm wrong about near EVERYTHING and he's calling me on it whenever I disagree with him). When marv is scum, he's often more buddyish and friendly, in my experience, at least towards me (again, this is specific-to-me stuff). We were together in a mason QT at the end of LV, friendly banter, and in Themed Mini he was kind of friendly and banter-y, although he was also just goofing off to some extent. All that explanation to say that marv has been more buddy-y with me this game than "austin is a dumbass," didn't get all up in my grill over our different slOosh reads, and ONLY started with the austin-is-an-idiot stuff today - + Show Spoiler +On March 17 2013 21:05 marvellosity wrote:
Players like austin are pretty awful and can't get a read right to save their life. austin only thinks i'm mafia when i'm town, and thinks i'm town when i'm mafia, apparently. His only comment is "mafia tricksy this game". Pathetic. He obviously has a complete inability to even understand basic meta arguments.
That quote itself was kind of telling for me. I'm awful, I can't get a read right to save my life, etc. I have maybe more than my share of bad bad games, but I don't think I've played overly poorly this one. At the very least, I haven't done stupid shit yet, and that sadly counts as not overly poorly for me. But marv has only turned on that acidity NOW, not when we disagreed about stuff before, only now. Those are the sort of posts he should have been directing at me all game if he were town when we disagreed on slOosh or on cora or on other topics.
Another minor thing, and maybe specific to me, is marv's reaction to this day. I remember Movie Star Mini Mafia as a game where marv and VE were at each other's throats for just about a full cycle. 1/2 the thread was them spamming attacks at each other, blah blah blah. marv was a vig and shot VE, who flipped town. marv was mopey for a while after that, because he'd been wrong, that's what he referenced earlier today when asking if I'd seen him have to regroup after being so wrong about his strongest reads/entire theory of the game. But marv's response THAT game was to go balls-to-the-wall and try to solve the game before he got NKed the next day. There was a google doc full of thoughts, reads on people, etc. etc. I forget the exact scenario, but he basically went and figured out more or less who the mafia were, and more or less specifically who the mafia RB was. Or some power role. That was like the only target that town could kill and still have a chance, it was a SK game and without that iirc the game came down to mafia vs. sk and town couldn't win. Anyhow, marv's reaction THIS game is different. I HAVE seen him go dark and be unconfident after having a strong read come up wrong. But when that happened, he popped back and basically solved the game as best he could. Here, that has NOT happened, in the least. He points to the lack of confidence, hoping I recognize that as the same as another town game, but he doesn't seem to remember that his reaction was two-part that game, and the other part is lacking here.
/breath
So, a bunch of little things, and then the whole glaring he's-still-alive-D3/lylo-and-scum-is-shooting-people-who-aren't-going-to-take-over-town-like-he-can.
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On March 18 2013 08:06 Acrofales wrote:
I don't know what scum did. They may have shot Marv and it got DI killed. Or they roleblocked marv and shot DI.
But it means that if Marv was alive on D2, he was guaranteed to be alive on D3. So yeah, policy lynch moved up a day due to obvious protective roles being obviously protecting Marv.
If marv isn't lying about the RB and scum wanted to kill him, they could have RBed DI and killed marv...
Either marv is lying about being RBed, or scum HAS a RB and could have used it to kill him. Either way, his surviving wasn't guaranteed.
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On March 18 2013 08:17 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 08:06 austinmcc wrote:On March 18 2013 07:50 Crossfire99 wrote:
Why is marv scum? Explain in detail cause I don't see it.
marv is around at lylo. This should not be the case. EVEN IF he were town and wrong all game, he's one of the few, if not the only, remaining player who has been putting in effort and organizing town. Scum can't just rely on him being wrong forever, and if they took him out then town loses someone who puts in a ton of effort and is pushy with his votes - someone who is threatening to scum. I don't think Foolishness's case is slam-dunk, but as of today we know Foolishness was town. He was actually trying to trap marv and observe marv's reaction. I had Foolishness as scum, but we know that's not the case now. Nobody seems to be factoring this into things, but Foolishness's reads are now valid and worth considering. Some of it is personal stuff. There are some buddy-ish posts between marv and I, which I should have noticed more. Normally, if marv is town, we argue about a decent number of things. Here, I agreed with his Foolishness read, but he's been scummy on slOosh for a bit now and I've been townie. When marv is townie and I disagree with him, he's all over my ass for being an idiot (See: stupid ass LIX where marv is right about near EVERYTHING and I'm wrong about near EVERYTHING and he's calling me on it whenever I disagree with him). When marv is scum, he's often more buddyish and friendly, in my experience, at least towards me (again, this is specific-to-me stuff). We were together in a mason QT at the end of LV, friendly banter, and in Themed Mini he was kind of friendly and banter-y, although he was also just goofing off to some extent. All that explanation to say that marv has been more buddy-y with me this game than "austin is a dumbass," didn't get all up in my grill over our different slOosh reads, and ONLY started with the austin-is-an-idiot stuff today - + Show Spoiler +On March 17 2013 21:05 marvellosity wrote:
Players like austin are pretty awful and can't get a read right to save their life. austin only thinks i'm mafia when i'm town, and thinks i'm town when i'm mafia, apparently. His only comment is "mafia tricksy this game". Pathetic. He obviously has a complete inability to even understand basic meta arguments. That quote itself was kind of telling for me. I'm awful, I can't get a read right to save my life, etc. I have maybe more than my share of bad bad games, but I don't think I've played overly poorly this one. At the very least, I haven't done stupid shit yet, and that sadly counts as not overly poorly for me. But marv has only turned on that acidity NOW, not when we disagreed about stuff before, only now. Those are the sort of posts he should have been directing at me all game if he were town when we disagreed on slOosh or on cora or on other topics. Another minor thing, and maybe specific to me, is marv's reaction to this day. I remember Movie Star Mini Mafia as a game where marv and VE were at each other's throats for just about a full cycle. 1/2 the thread was them spamming attacks at each other, blah blah blah. marv was a vig and shot VE, who flipped town. marv was mopey for a while after that, because he'd been wrong, that's what he referenced earlier today when asking if I'd seen him have to regroup after being so wrong about his strongest reads/entire theory of the game. But marv's response THAT game was to go balls-to-the-wall and try to solve the game before he got NKed the next day. There was a google doc full of thoughts, reads on people, etc. etc. I forget the exact scenario, but he basically went and figured out more or less who the mafia were, and more or less specifically who the mafia RB was. Or some power role. That was like the only target that town could kill and still have a chance, it was a SK game and without that iirc the game came down to mafia vs. sk and town couldn't win. Anyhow, marv's reaction THIS game is different. I HAVE seen him go dark and be unconfident after having a strong read come up wrong. But when that happened, he popped back and basically solved the game as best he could. Here, that has NOT happened, in the least. He points to the lack of confidence, hoping I recognize that as the same as another town game, but he doesn't seem to remember that his reaction was two-part that game, and the other part is lacking here. /breath So, a bunch of little things, and then the whole glaring he's-still-alive-D3/lylo-and-scum-is-shooting-people-who-aren't-going-to-take-over-town-like-he-can. you're a really terrible, terrible player if you think i could pull this off as mafia i'm gonna mention it one more time, the longest filter in mafia history that i know of is my filter in hero (20) and I'm double that now. It's impossible for mafia to fake involvement for this long. Get a grip you stupid nonce. you're just waffling and paranoid and fucking stupid and you're not fucking stupid so it's very frustrating. What is "this"? Being involved, having a very large filter?
You don't get modkilled for posting a bunch as mafia. You slip up and get caught, you can't keep your stories straight, catch scum, not look weird for organizing town yet never getting NKed, you out yourself as mafia. There's no inherent limit to your posting, it's just easier to not be particularly active. Plus, while it's VERY ODD for mafia to have an enormous filter, it's also VERY ODD for town to have a filter that long. I know you post a lot, are active, but that's a huge amount for 3 days, and if you were town and that much more vocal than everyone else, mafia would have shot you.
Yeah, I'm paranoid about you. But there are a lot of little indicators that you're not town, and you're still alive. And if "I've been really active, can't be mafia" is all you've got to offer, then I'm not buying it, because a townie that active shouldn't still be alive, so it cuts both ways.
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I am happy with my vote where it is. I don't think either of them is town.
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gg vivax.
Death miller doesn't seem to be an option, because it's not just the color of the flip, his PM specifically notes he can suck up factional KP so he's actually not mafia.
hiro probably lying. Vivax not just a politician, so a frame is unlikely, because either hiro is fakeclaiming or it would be some weird framer who gets to choose an alignment AND a role. No reason to bust into thread and do that unless marv mafia as well, marv had the vote-lead and nothing was happening, so I don't see why mafia hiro would do this to save townmarv and get vivax lynched.
acro, hope things are well.
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Don't see a reason for HiroPro to fakeclaim a check on Vivax unless he was trying to save marv.
New thoughts were time-limited today.
Here's yamato at the start of D3: On March 16 2013 19:53 yamato77 wrote:
austinmcc - lots of lengthy analyses, and has played the most pro-town of anyone in the game. no reason to suspect him.
Yamato during D3 does one thing and one thing only: Push marv. Incessantly, to the detriment of ANY other read, any other anything, marv marv marv marv marv is scum scum scum scum scum.
Among other things, marv was scum because he is a "wimpy baby" and town marv is not said wimpy baby. You can poke around their filters for the full conversation, but general arguments - + Show Spoiler +On March 17 2013 05:29 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 05:27 marvellosity wrote:On March 17 2013 05:23 yamato77 wrote:On March 17 2013 05:14 marvellosity wrote:On March 17 2013 05:07 yamato77 wrote:
Because town Marv isn't a fucking wimpy dumbass.
Come on. nor is mafia marv you weirdo. being indecisive isn't wimpy, it's about not knowing what the best lynch is. It's really easy to be decisive when you're just making shit up you know. I clearly showed that your decision process involved blatant sheeping of town's other veterans, all of which you subsequently killed. Also, you're not screaming at me for being stupid for accusing you, SO YOU'RE DEFINITELY MAFIA THIS TIME. where was blatant sheeping of other town's veterans? i asked their opinions, yes... since when is seeking the opinion of a strong player I believe to be town a mafia-tell? anyway i'm not doing the whole screaming thing since kita came in and did his "i'm not your mom" thing. you'll have to accept this instead. until you come up with something which remotely indicates i'm mafia, there's no point talking about your case. The strongest and best point that I'm mafia is that I tried to lynch a townie day 2. You either accept my push was genuine or you don't. All that other nonsense that's in your case says nothing about anything. It says you have no fucking balls, no real reads. Where in my case do you give a conclusive opinion about someone's alignment not named Foolishness? Where do you continue pushing them, as town Marv would do? Town Marv is not a fucking wimpy baby who appeals to the opinion of confirmed townies. Town Marv is actively scumhunting and pushes real lynches. You have done none of that. You're not even doing it today. Your DP push is pathetic, limp-wristed. This is not town marvellosity.
It's not a good argument. Neither town marv nor scum marv is a "wimpy baby." yamato SHOULD know this. If he doesn't know it, he can go look it up, he can trust anyone who is saying he's making a false distinction here, etc. But he doesn't. He continues to press that marv is a wimpy baby, townmarv isn't a wimpy baby, therefore, scum marv
When I argue with him about that, remember, the guy who had the most pro-town posts at the start of the day, yamato responds with a variety of comments - + Show Spoiler +On March 17 2013 05:40 yamato77 wrote:
Don't be dumb. You know town Marv is not a wimpy baby who doesn't even have reads. On March 17 2013 05:41 yamato77 wrote:
SERIOUSLY
HOW ARE YOU LETTING SCUM MARV TELL YOU HE DOESN'T PUSH LYNCHES AS TOWN
WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK On March 17 2013 05:48 yamato77 wrote:
This is a case of TOWN MARV USUALLY PUSHES LYNCHES
THIS MARV HAS PUSHED ZERO LYNCHES ALL THE WAY THROUGH
Stop over-thinking this. This IS NOT town marvellosity. I know it for a fact. On March 17 2013 05:52 yamato77 wrote:
Now I think you're mafia with him.
Ugh, this game. In just yesterday, he had me as his most pro-town poster. Then, because I was also voting marv but doing so for different reasons and because I didn't agree with the distinction he was making (and still don't...does ANYONE?), he thinks I'm mafia as well. Includes me in his scum team later on:On March 18 2013 02:43 yamato77 wrote:
Hiro, Marv, Moc, Austin and either Acro or Cora depending on reality of his flip.
yamato's reads bounce around. yamato tunnels. we tunneled each other momentarily the last game I played in with him. But this logic REALLY stinks, it's outside the norm.
(1) austin is town, marv is scum
(2) austin thinks marv is scum, but disagrees with ONE of my reasons
(3) therefore, austin is scum with marv
That makes no sense, especially when his reasoning was bs as to the baby point. What it reads like is that marv looks bad for still being around, and scum know that. They're starting to split on him, and yamato has taken an anti-marv stance, HARD, to the detriment of ANY actual scumhunting (if you check the full filter from yesterday, there are times where he accuses people of being scum, or of acting scummy, but he never really follows through on anything, doesn't do ANY analysis/hunting). But he still needs reads/mislynches/to look like he's doing something, so he flips himself from townie on me to scummy. Opens up more options for lynch, less people you have to agree with/talk to/not lynch. I hate that flip from him. It doesn't look like someone thinking critically about the game, it looks like someone tossing around reads with no basis (he may toss around a LOT of scumreads over the course of a game, but generally has better reasons).
The D1 shot isn't conclusive for me either way, I've generally been throwing it out. But he's been skating for a while now, as townies who had him as very scummy turn up dead (still assuming cora was townie given our NKs last night). Beyond marv/hiropro, he's a good option.
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One other thought:
Whoever invented the magic marker, if you're town, to need to push the boundaries of what you can invent today. If possible we need to be able to check multiple people, give someone parity checks or phoenix wright powers. Maybe something even more OP like a counterpart to Prince of Darkness power where we could go from day to day and skip the night phase? If you can get it by, we need it, because that would seem to be one of the only reasons the game hasn't ended if cora was town - that power can turn things around. Stay hidden, give us something strong.
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On March 19 2013 11:11 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 11:06 austinmcc wrote:
One other thought:
Whoever invented the magic marker, if you're town, to need to push the boundaries of what you can invent today. If possible we need to be able to check multiple people, give someone parity checks or phoenix wright powers. Maybe something even more OP like a counterpart to Prince of Darkness power where we could go from day to day and skip the night phase? If you can get it by, we need it, because that would seem to be one of the only reasons the game hasn't ended if cora was town - that power can turn things around. Stay hidden, give us something strong.
I thought the magic marker was for the death frame?
See quote ^
If cora was scum, then we're 8/5. We're dead in the water barring a powerful role, or multiple powerful roles. One indicator that, whatever the magic marker did, we have a townie inventor - inventions = strange stuff and a chance for us to pull this one back.
Paranoid thought is that we have something like Bill Murray the inventor, who can invent things that don't work the way he wants, malfunction after a short amount of time, can only invent scum-favored inventions, I dunno. Those things would run against him being one of the reasons we're still in this though, so I'm hopeful.
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Oats, IF the inventor is town, giving you an actual answer is not in our interest.
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gg, wp scumbuddies, sorry about this game town. Will be interested to read obs tomorrow.
Thanks hosts for the game, sorry for not being maximally kita-ish
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Just got through obs QT, BC too baws. BC, can I ask why you were scummy on me before D3? I would agree that we all went wonky going for the flawless and did a bad job of outing ourselves, but you were on my case before that? I feel like I absolutely didn't comment on my teammates, which may have outed me, and also that I posted things like thread police posts, but didn't fully back them up by trying to organize town. D3 and beyond I don't think I scummed well, but I thought I'd been alright before that point.
<3 reading gonzaw's obs posts. Really wish gonzaw or BH would have been real roles, they'd have been quite fun to get.
sorry kita for not following through and going full troll at the end of D3. But at least I stayed true to your personality and SOMEHOW DID NOT GET ELECTED WHILE RUNNING FOR MAYOR UNOPPOSED. It was almost too perfect 
Also, I gotta know whether crossfire actually got his rb message or not. I was so proud to FINALLY get to post that video, because the stupid commercial song plays in my head every time I read a post of his.
Overall, I guess enough has been said of how this game played out. From D2 onwards, we really just sat back and did some very minor pushing of buttons and let the thread go where it was going. I'm not certain whether that was a great call from us, would be interested in hearing thoughts from folks who weren't mafia this game. Apart from us all getting lazy D3 and pushing for the flawless, anything MAJOR that we slipped up in doing as a team?
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EPT
