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On February 20 2013 04:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
imo town's biggest mistake was all of D2. It's fine to park your votes on the almost confirmed SK but that doesn't mean you can't set your sights on a scum lynch in the meantime (if you feel confident that you've found one of course.)
Most of town was scummier than the scumteam.
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On February 20 2013 04:41 thrawn2112 wrote:if you're trying to suggest that mafia didn't deserve the win, or that you yourself are above how you've generalized all of town's play then you're quite wrong  i could feel your rage after the silly D1 lynch and thought you were town because of it, but with your "this town is terrible" attitude you put on for the rest of the game you were definitely contributing to the negative town atmosphere
I didn't see a way to make town play decently, so I got super lazy. I'm aware this isn't good town play. I still don't see a way I could have won the game (esp. not with this setup). I'm honestly not bitter about losing anymore, (although I was sour for a bit), but I'm curious as to real suggestions as to how I could have pursued a victory as well as some thoughts as to how town in general can hope to ever win in a 9-3-1 setup.
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Oh yeah, I agree there was some good mafia play from at least 1 of their players. I don't think it made much difference though.
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On February 20 2013 04:57 zarepath wrote:
Sn0 go sign up for This Town Ain'T Big Enough Mafia
I was really tempted. I don't really think its a good idea though. I'm out of town with no internet for most of this upcoming weekend. Over that time I'd be lucky to get in an unexplained vote  (although I guess in the duel format I most likely wouldn't need to defend myself in that period of time). The setup looks awesome although I'm worried I'd complain about it at endgame (given how I complained about NMM35 even when it made us win rofl).
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On February 20 2013 05:01 zarepath wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 04:48 Sn0_Man wrote:On February 20 2013 04:41 thrawn2112 wrote:if you're trying to suggest that mafia didn't deserve the win, or that you yourself are above how you've generalized all of town's play then you're quite wrong i could feel your rage after the silly D1 lynch and thought you were town because of it, but with your "this town is terrible" attitude you put on for the rest of the game you were definitely contributing to the negative town atmosphere I didn't see a way to make town play decently, so I got super lazy. I'm aware this isn't good town play. I still don't see a way I could have won the game (esp. not with this setup). I'm honestly not bitter about losing anymore, (although I was sour for a bit), but I'm curious as to real suggestions as to how I could have pursued a victory as well as some thoughts as to how town in general can hope to ever win in a 9-3-1 setup. We had a 2-in-3 shot on Day 3 and just didn't know it. A little more rigor when Sylencia seemed too easy of a lynch is all it would've taken. I feel like I personally could have switched the vote onto Mandalor if I had taken the time and effort.
Eh... I mentioned how easy the lynch was on Syl but at the very beginning of that day there were instantly 2 votes on Sevryn from players scummy enough that I didn't think a lynch on him was gonna be any better in terms of "no resistance" (hell, I bet you mocsta would have bussed Sev pretty hard if his Syl vote got no traction). Which leaves mandalor as the one that wasn't "too easy" but I fail to see what makes mandalor a better target, really. Most of his extremely sparse filter didn't look any worse than the others, and his IRL excuse for no contribution was better than Syl's "I always contribute nothing" excuse.
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On February 20 2013 05:22 WaveofShadow wrote:When does the next NMM begin? I want to play my 3 already so I can play in a game where more than half the players actually participate. 
You are free to sign up for TL Mafia LX which explicitly states that signups are open to everybody.
The goal of NMM games is to allow players to familiarize themselves with TL forum mafia as a whole (and hopefully brush up their skills) with access to coaches etc.
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On February 20 2013 05:23 cDgCorazon wrote:
You can just tell I get more frustrated as the game goes on.
You sounded pretty darn frustrated day 1 when we wouldn't lynch warbaby... if it got worse from there then I don't know what to say.
On February 20 2013 05:23 cDgCorazon wrote:
Lastly, I made 3 crumbs. Did anyone pick up on them?
Not I.
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On February 20 2013 05:27 Mocsta wrote:
But yes the SK slip was bad in the con text that I knew he wasn't scum...but it was genuinely based on TS being solely focused on SK/vig
I read that post about 5 times trying to decide whether the "Mr SK" part was pre-knowledge or just mocsta being in-your-face and confident even when he's wrong. Decided the latter... Whoops.
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Yah, not to detract from your play Mocsta because it was good and involved a lot of effort but the game was super easy for you guys. Like, day 1 lynch is 3-2-1-1-1-1-1? Yeah... town had basically lost at that point. I'm aware you were sowing seeds of distrust but half decent town doesn't vote like that rofl.
Day 2 you didn't exactly "guide" us to the OO lynch. It was the only reasonable lynch because we still couldn't prove he wasn't scum. Admittedly we probably had a better chance of winning if we left OO alive but I don't see how any newbie town ever actually lets him live. Personally, I lynched him on the grounds that we can't win if it isn't a 2-scum setup so I might as well do what benefits us most if it was a 2-scum setup.
Day 3 was a joke. I would happily have lynched every non-me player there. Admittedly you artfully dodged the early Sevryn momentum, but once again this is a gift to you from awful town. Even if we lynch Sevryn I don't think there are any particular ties to him that save us from future mislynches. Its not like you didn't have a plethora of easy mislynch targets floating around.
AKA you played well, and you put a ton of effort in, and good for you, but you a) got lucky with the vet-status SK being outed so early and b) probably couldn't lose to our town anyway
PS: I still don't see the balance behind 9-3-1 setups >_>
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On February 20 2013 05:48 Mocsta wrote:
P.s. sevryn was due to be lynched day1
Until I setup glurio.
A) Syl was gonna be lynched for quite a while. Either way most of town was rushing to throw their vote as far away from relevance as possible so I honestly don't see the skill here. Victory yes, but not exactly a play of the year or anything.
On February 20 2013 05:48 Mocsta wrote:
Priorities are:
Establish innocence
2. Scum hunt
3. Be pro town
Many of my contributions were 3. Aligned and its really easy to fake.. I don't believe I made a case the whole game.
This was another big difference from the other game I played with you as scum that made me hesitate to bring any kind of case against you. Last time you were throwing out cases everywhere Obviously my mistake but still. WP.
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On February 20 2013 05:59 Mocsta wrote:
Hopefully this explains why policy lurker lynch sucks
Its just a medium for enabling discussion but shouldn't replace scum hunting
How do we get Mandalor/Sevryn if they just lurk? we *have* to lynch lurkers because, once again, 2/3 scum resided there. The issue is that so many lazy town live there as well that it becomes pretty hard to win. I mean, my day 1 vote ON SCUM was a "policy lurker lynch" vote but it was reasoned and aimed at the player I most thought was scum. Dunno what you want town to do, forget about all the lurkers and tear the active players apart? Thats how we almost lost last NMM. Lurker lynch is extremely justifiable, you just have to choose the right lurker.
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On February 20 2013 06:02 Promethelax wrote:
Policy lynches are wonderful, they enforce the way townies must play and therefore how scum have to play. I love lynch all lurkers (which is different than LAL which is for liars).
I don't like how the sk balances in minis but it does balance, you actually gain more by leaving him alive for a while. He needs to hit scum after three townies are dead. His only hope of winning after being found out is a kingmaker scenario.
Holding the SK alive is pretty hopeless for town. Scum can RB him forever, or let him fire if they think he will miss. Plus town can't know if he is actually the SK (because again, if he was scum the real SK would obviously never claim and OO would still claim SK to try and survive). Unless we had a certain scum candidate to hit, we basically have to take out OO in case he flips scum.
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FYI warbaby it became essentially impossible to take anything you said seriously after your opening this game. I didn't have any kind of strong scum read on you, but it was so hard to credit you as a helpful member of town after that. If something got going on mocsta I would have probably been willing to vote him as well but I sure as heck wasn't gonna start that garbage. There were easier lynches to pursue (Sev/Syl/Mand) that I felt had a higher chance of flipping scum. I'll admit that the fact that cora was so convinced you were scummy definitely clouded my view on you.
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The crappy soft-blue claim (we covered this), the references to last game, the general "i'm a victim" attitude, it really just sounded awful. It was the farthest thing from contributing to town. Like, legitimately every post you made sounds like scum trying very clumsily to establish town cred without having to scumhunt or whatever.
At least, for the first 12 hours or so. I'm too lazy to see how long it lasted, but you definitely did clean it up before the end of day 1.
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On February 20 2013 08:24 marvellosity wrote:
too many players in this post-game blaming town's failure on others and not themselves.
Meh. I don't really care what you think, if the obs QT has their leading scum candidate at MYLO as our only remaining blue role and for most of the game (although not at the very end) I'm the only person on every town list around then I'm content with my play. I know I'm not the best at discerning who is scum, but If I can prove myself town early and have stuff to work with I feel like my contribution to town is acceptable. Could I have played better Day 3? duh... but it wouldn't change anything barring super scumhunting techniques that I simply don't possess.
On February 20 2013 08:27 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 04:48 Sn0_Man wrote:On February 20 2013 04:41 thrawn2112 wrote:if you're trying to suggest that mafia didn't deserve the win, or that you yourself are above how you've generalized all of town's play then you're quite wrong i could feel your rage after the silly D1 lynch and thought you were town because of it, but with your "this town is terrible" attitude you put on for the rest of the game you were definitely contributing to the negative town atmosphere I didn't see a way to make town play decently, so I got super lazy. I'm aware this isn't good town play. I still don't see a way I could have won the game (esp. not with this setup). I'm honestly not bitter about losing anymore, (although I was sour for a bit), but I'm curious as to real suggestions as to how I could have pursued a victory as well as some thoughts as to how town in general can hope to ever win in a 9-3-1 setup. Rock Band, where SK shot at town every night he was alive.
Wherein you had a knowable setup and wildly better roles in general as town. Plus town clearly played well and nailed scum non-stop, including getting the RB N2.
Contrasted with a newbie setup which was not deducible, which had substantially weaker roles, and which had 2 replacements after night 1. In which you have such quality plays as voting for a clearly unlynchable 0-vote lurker as town because you don't want to look scummy.
I will cede the point that you did, in fact, win a town game with 9-3-1 though.
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On February 20 2013 09:06 WaveofShadow wrote:
Please, Sn0, tell me how you really feel. Newbie games exist for a reason, bro.
?
Just commenting that maybe a 2-mislynch = instaloss type setup might be bad for newbie games featuring such plays. I know you have learned from it, and I'm fine with that. I don't hold it against you any more than any other play made by others that ended up with the impossibility of town victory (despite marv the clairvoyant being able to solve any game).
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On February 20 2013 09:11 ObviousOne wrote:
I'll say it again, D2 was fun for me! <3
Probably the best part of the game for me too actually. That kind of setup stuff is what interests me the most about mafia. And your posts were pretty golden.
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Either way, I'm not contributing any more so I think I should prolly stop posting here...
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On February 21 2013 07:35 warbaby wrote:
No, I included you and myself in that reference. The entire town derped hard N2 D1 and continued derping for the rest of the game.
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On February 22 2013 03:21 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2013 02:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
Hey warbaby! I don't give a fuck if you don't think Mocsta's nomination is warranted! It's MY subjective opinion (which may or may not even be valid due to his playing more games or whatever) and if you don't like it DON'T FUCKING VOTE FOR HIM IN EIGHT OR WHATEVER MONTHS! What are you trying to accomplish coming in here and saying "You're not as impressive as you seem to think" exactly anyway? What's the POINT? Get the fuck over it, you lost.
I tried to be fucking nice. I loled just a little. It appears buttons have been pressed,
Town has collectively bitched incessantly about everything in the game without any person reasonably taking blame upon themselves except zare (who seriously deserves a lot less than most other players).
I'm not sure that that indicates much learning, which is kinda the goal of Newbie games no? (Okay hilarity is another goal).
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EPT
