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On February 14 2013 10:44 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2013 10:37 zarepath wrote:I'm convinced that the scum shot WaveofShadow, and here's why: On February 11 2013 13:04 WaveofShadow wrote:Obviously the Day is still young but I expect more from my Town as the day progresses. That read to me as a very clear DT claim, and is what led me to doing my fake case on Wave -- I was pretty sure I'd found the DT and wanted to know who was willing to see him dead. Unfortunately, the fact that I saw his claim means that scum could also have seen the claim and decide to kill him N1. That same logic leads to scum not wanting to be any part of a mislynch on him, because they know he'll flip blue and they can't have that blood on their hands, which makes me think that scum are most likely to be the ones that gave support to my case but didn't push it. I don't know why Wave made a fake DT claim, other than to lure a mafia hit, of course. Or there's also the possibility that it wasn't a DT claim at all and he just randomly screwed up his capital letters. Sorry to chip in. but that is really bad logic DT isn't a role this game.... its pretty easy to check; frankly, i dont know why your making these type of claims without doing your homework? i.e. I would like an answer to the above please.
LOL wow, apparently you're right.
That was a really needlessly risky thing I did then on Day 1. I built a lot of assumptions off of that.
Okay, so I read the roles once before the game started, but decided I wasn't even going to look at them until after N1 to keep myself from delving into needless role speculation. I really should've checked when I saw the DT claim, but the last 4 games I've played have all had DTs and for some reason seeing those two capital letters in such an awkward sentence just made everything click for me and got me all excited.
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And apparently there aren't even MAsons, either. LOL.
Okay, it wasn't clear why you were bringing it up, but it hardly matters now anyway, so moving on.
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On February 14 2013 11:59 ObviousOne wrote:
Who else but me as vigilante is able to speculate on the existence or absence of a vigilante so confidently? I knew nobody would speak up since I was responsible for the kill, and if anyone had dared I would be an instant counter-claim to it.
Then WHY WOULD YOU LET TOWN ASSUME THERE'S AN SK???
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Is that an offer? In exchange for another day of life, you'll kill someone we tell you to?
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On February 14 2013 12:11 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2013 12:09 zarepath wrote:On February 14 2013 11:59 ObviousOne wrote:
Who else but me as vigilante is able to speculate on the existence or absence of a vigilante so confidently? I knew nobody would speak up since I was responsible for the kill, and if anyone had dared I would be an instant counter-claim to it. Then WHY WOULD YOU LET TOWN ASSUME THERE'S AN SK??? Because it shouldn't change how you play?
Then why even bring it up, to say "I'm going to have to assume there's an SK now" if it contributes nothing and won't change anything?
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And here's another thing -- you might not be SK. You could easily be mafia, the one who carried out the scum hit, and the SK hit geript.
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I don't know, so many holes here. Conveniently not believing in bread crumbs, not claiming in the hour that he himself said that the vigilante should have claimed, only killing WaveofShadow so that he could get INFORMATION on Corazon, wanting to stay "null" so scum don't have a target for tomorrow night... I mean, giving town a confirmed townie on Day 2 is HUGE, and getting picked of N2 isn't so awful because that means any active blue roles we may have get a full nother night of actions in.
Really dubious claim.
##Vote ObviousOne
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So you're arguing that your ability to help us find the three scum (how do you know there's three?) outweighs your ability to kill one of us every single night?
The other problem is that having both SK kills and mafia kills each night will be super confusing as to knowing who actually killed you; we'd have to take your word for it. If you actually think an SK would be worth keeping around, and that's your defense, you better hard claim SK and explain your value to town. This either-or crap only solidifies your lynch.
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I'm going to bed but will look at your questions tomorrow, Mocsta.
I know you are looking for my analysis of my fake case, but I did have that -- it was a list of their reactions. It's informed all my other reads, but I haven't done another full recap of it. I forget what your other question was. I'll check tomorrow.
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I say we park the vote on him because there's absolutely no way to know he isn't the SK and actually just mafia. The only thing that would let us know that for sure is if the actual SK counter-claimed, which they would never do because they'd just let town kill a mafia for them and then kill a town at night to keep things close.
In the meantime, there are a lot of wills left to look at and dissect, and certain players who haven't said anything for a long time. Still plenty to discuss; still three scum to look for, whether we vote for those reads today or not. I'll be answering Mocsta's questions momentarily.
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(You know, ObviousOne, you should have just claimed you were framed instead of doing the vigi claim which looks especially suspect after you asking for the vigi to claim hours earlier.)
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On February 14 2013 11:15 Mocsta wrote:Whoah whoah, dont run away so fast; This DT stuff is adding even more confusion to my last will comment to you. Show nested quote +On February 14 2013 09:48 Mocsta wrote:Mocsta N1: Last Will [zarepath]I am so conflicted with this guy. In my opinion, his "fake case" actually unsettled town and is responsible for creating this split vote outcome. I am still trying to piece together whether the outcome was simply not thought through enough (town); OR intentional (scum). My concern is that, zarepath did not deliver the thorough analysis of this "experiment" like promised - at least I dont recall reading it. I also noticed at the end of Night 1, zarepath shared some reads; but these are based on the thread dynamics, not his experiment (conveniently....) I think zarepath needs to provide *VERY* clear reasoning behind his actions this Day2. If needs be; pressure him for this. Remember, the experiment itself is NULL. It comes down to WHAT he does with the information. Im going to give you a quick run down on my worst-case interpretation: - Scum/SK looking for easy town cred
spots a claim; cos your not town, run with an assumption that DT exists, and builds a fake case
- The case doesnt get as much traction as you wanted; though no one broke it down, not many actually supported it with a vote.
- You decide its better to gain town cred by ousting the play; and you did receive town cred
- You promise analysis, and never follow through; just providing an easy summary list.
If I look at you in best case scenario: - You are VT
- You spot the "claim" and being VT, u didnt pay attention to the OP and have a brilliant idea to build a fake case to see reactions.
- The case doesnt get as much traction as you wanted; though no one broke it down, not many actually supported it with a vote.
- You decide to give up the shenanigans and again spot more reactions.
- You promise analysis; life got busy, or you saw nothing of note, and did not follow through.
The problem I have with 'best-case scenario" is; if there was nothing of note to provide analysis; why not just spill the beans instead of moving along like nothing happened? (Its obviously too late to say anything now, its just WIFOM) Lastly, as I said before, i think your case was a major issue to why we could not consolidate votes Day1. I want need detailed answers behind your reasoning zarepath.
I don't see how my case prevented consolidated votes; the foremost problem was the lack of a clear, compelling case from ANYONE. I can hardly take responsibility for everyone else's lack of strong cases. I can certainly take responsibility for my last-minute Mocsta vote based mostly on the fact that I didn't feel that strongly about any of the other candidates.
I gave up the shenanigans because I determined that in the long run it would do more harm than good, and that we needed several hours of clarity in order to put forth a good lynch. Honestly, a clear lynch target didn't come out of my fake case. I'm curious to see how Obvious flips tonight, because he visited Wave, and if he were mafia I think that people who completely ignored my case look scummier (they saw the DT claim and decided to kill him at night, although there's no nominal DT).
I was looking for two things -- people who liked my case and would agree with it but not actually do anything, and those who do not really process it or look at it critically. Those would be people who knew that person was town but didn't mind them dying and want to take credit for discussion/participation (ie, scum). This is why Warbaby, Sylencia, and Mandalor have all looked scummy to me. Warbaby immediately latched onto the case with no analysis, it was the first case Syl said anything about at all and he pretty much entirely agreed while adding a minor point to it, and Mandalor did something similar.
Mocsta, actually, first said "quite a few good points in that case," calling some educated assumptions and others anti-town, but not explaining which ones. In the end, he does do an analysis of Wave's defense as opposed to Warbaby's defense and concludes that Wave actually looks town in comparison to Warbaby. This is at a point when the fake lynch still hasn't taken off, it's sitting at 2 votes (myself and geript). So this makes your reaction to my fake case less scummy than that of Warbaby, Sylencia, and Mandalor, imo.
Sn0 "liked the case" but didn't want to lynch an active player D1, but then really disliked his defense. He wasn't super eager to go after him at first, so I didn't see that as scummy. Corazon liked specific parts of it but cautioned that the same points could be brought up against others. Geript is the one who actually broke down my case the most, and while in the end it led to him voting for Wave, he was obviously thinking critically, which led to my town read on him.
So while I could say that as a result of this tactic Warbaby, Sylencia, Mandalor, and Mocsta are three scum and 1 SK, that's obviously going too far. Sometimes town just says they like a case and don't think real hard about it. Perhaps a desperate Warbaby was just happy to see any case that wasn't on him, etc. But I still think that they are strikes against these people.
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On February 12 2013 01:33 Sn0_Man wrote:
Regarding the WaveOfShadow case, I see some merit there but I'm still not here to lynch posting players unless more comes up. I agree with Mandalor about what part of the case is compelling. Unprompted soft AND hard town claims with some fairly stupid follow up excuses.
It's not as scummy because he doesn't want him lynched today. Scum would hope for a mislynch. It's not like he's super critical of the case, but it's not as eager as the other people.
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On February 15 2013 00:31 Mandalor wrote:
I don't quite understand zarepath's logic this game AT ALL.
I can't see how Sn0's reaction was any different from the others, including mine. Yet, for some reason, he excludes him from the "scummy" reactions. NOONE was super eager to go after him except warbaby maybe.
I still think post 6 was weird and I only really commented on that.
What other things about my play do you see as illogical?
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If there are only two scum, SK definitely wants to lynch town tonight. I don't see how we could persuade OO to actually stay in control.
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On February 15 2013 03:00 Mandalor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 00:42 zarepath wrote:On February 12 2013 01:33 Sn0_Man wrote:
Regarding the WaveOfShadow case, I see some merit there but I'm still not here to lynch posting players unless more comes up. I agree with Mandalor about what part of the case is compelling. Unprompted soft AND hard town claims with some fairly stupid follow up excuses. It's not as scummy because he doesn't want him lynched today. Scum would hope for a mislynch. It's not like he's super critical of the case, but it's not as eager as the other people. yeah but where's the difference to all the other reactions except warbaby's. Noone jumped on your case and said "LET'S LYNCH HIM".
No, but they didn't proactively say "let's not lynch him." In fact, somebody saying "LET'S LYNCH HIM" would have read more town than scum to me.
WB, the only reason I'm bringing this fake case stuff out again is because Mocsta wanted more of my reaction to my fake case, so I provided it.
Mandalor, you have TWO lists in your filter, and it's a short filter. I did exaggerate when I said "every other post is a list," you're right about that; it was fairly sloppy. But that doesn't magically make your filter read town.
Where were your N1 reads? Who do you even suspect of being scum anymore? Someone claims tracker on a kill, someone claims vig in response, and your reaction is what? The first thing you've posted since then is to call me out on bad logic on something unrelated.
So in sum, don't criticize people for suspecting you and saying you look scummy when you have done almost nothing to look town. Start acting like town and at least pretending to care about the scum hunt.
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On February 15 2013 02:53 Mandalor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 00:44 zarepath wrote:On February 15 2013 00:31 Mandalor wrote:
I don't quite understand zarepath's logic this game AT ALL.
I can't see how Sn0's reaction was any different from the others, including mine. Yet, for some reason, he excludes him from the "scummy" reactions. NOONE was super eager to go after him except warbaby maybe.
I still think post 6 was weird and I only really commented on that. What other things about my play do you see as illogical? I've already commented on how you see my filter as list-heavy when there's a single list-post. You either tunnel me really hard or you follow a certain agenda.
Also note that you're one of SEVERAL people I have slight scum reads on, and the quote you have issue with comes from a post with reads on literally every single player. I hardly call that tunneling; I'm not calling for your lynch or anything.
Don't be so defensive and look for scum instead.
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Mocsta is such a bandwagoner, throwing his vote around willy-nilly like that
/s
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How do you know that it's purposeful?
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Mocsta, I thought I already addressed them. It's the most recent long post in my filter.
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EPT
