EPTI've already been scumhunting. I don't like what Toad wants to do today, which is basically sit on the idea of town reads (insanely easy thing for scum to do) and elect based on reputation. Most of town seems content with that idea, so far, actually, which is quite disturbing.
TL Mafia LIX - Page 15
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yamato77
11589 Posts
I've already been scumhunting. I don't like what Toad wants to do today, which is basically sit on the idea of town reads (insanely easy thing for scum to do) and elect based on reputation. Most of town seems content with that idea, so far, actually, which is quite disturbing. | ||
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AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
On January 20 2013 12:57 annul wrote: fuck you toad; you would rather vote someone who does not even want the candidacy instead of me? =( Yeah Sand said the plan was Evil, I am starting to see it now. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 20 2013 13:49 grush57 wrote: Well I think he meant that everyone is running and whoever is the best scumhunter should get elected. Basically this. Which makes sandroba's "I'm not running for mayor" post a huge fucking red flag in my eyes. Why would any town player not want the chance at being mayor, especially someone with his reputation? It offers protection, something he sorely needs if he is town. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
![[image loading]](http://londonlions.nettisivu.org/files/2011/05/lion-logo_c8dc.jpg){kind=logo} Gonzaw's super complicated mayor campaign My candidacy is based on these 2 things: 1)I'll try to establish my innocence as much as I can 2)I'll try my best to hunt scum today, and everyday from now on That's it. (1) So yeah, the point of this is so we don't have paranoid townies not being sure of me being town, which can be a huge problem later on since (with mafia's help surely) they'll feel like the only way to do anything would be lynching the mayor. This also disrupts the game and yadda yadda yadda you guys know the rest. (2)This one is obvious won't even touch it. Here's the thing: I don't really expect to put up any "plans" or a "formal campaign", nor post propositions of what I'll do, like what I'm going to do regarding lurkers or what I'm going to do regarding blue claims or whatever. That's pointless and nobody gives a shit about it and even if they did nobody would listen to me about "lurkers" or anything. Also it's not like the stances on those kind of issues are not "standard" anyways. I wont' also just say "vote for me" and that's it, since it doesn't give you guys the idea I really want to be mayor and I'm just a "well, I wouldn't mind being mayor I guess, so I can well say 'guys I want to be mayor' or something" "But gonzaw, how are we supposed to trust you/know you'll catch scum/be sure you are town/be sure you'll be a good mayor so I can vote for you RIGHT NOW!?" Yeah that's the thing. Like....every single mayor campaign is bullshit, like 99% of them (with the exception of the ones based on PM games and intricate blue plans and shit and the mayor candidate has a plan for that, but sadly we can't PM freely in this game), it's just fluff to "convince" people to vote for you right off the bat. That's not how it works, this is how it works: Just forget about the whole mayor campaign and let's play normally. Once we are deep into D1, then go back and see if I'm worthy of being mayor. Not just me, but anybody else. Don't rely on reputation alone, since the guy could either be scum or just not give a shit/be bad mayor/have bad reads/not establish himself as town successfully. Although good reputation usually precedes good play if the guy is town. Don't rely on mayor campaign posts alone, since the guy could be bullshitting from his teeth or just try to spout as much "pro-town" stuff he can even if he doesn't believe half the shit he says Now, this post itself may seem hypocritical since you guys may start to think "Wow, he seems to make sense! Maybe he'll be a good mayor in the end...wait a minute he's bullshitting us!". So yeah, read all of this only as advice instead of like a full-on-blown campaign for me to be mayor, and as time goes by, go back to points (1) and (2) and see if you think I'd be a worthy mayor candidate. With that said, let's start this shit. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On January 20 2013 11:55 sandroba wrote: i'm not running for mayor muahahaha that's my evil plan! i might lynch prpl anyway despite being a commoner *sandroba doesn't try to take full advantage of the setup to stampede town to a win* Seems like sandro flipped scum again. Unless you plan on telling us why you are not giving a shit about the mayor candidacy, which you would obviously do as town? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Would you mind giving us a "snip" of this "serious Chezinu" you'll become if you were to be mayor? Although promises like these are generally empty, the fact that you never made a promise like this before maybe means it's legit lol | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
What made you go from this: On January 20 2013 10:55 Toadesstern wrote: well basicly everyone who's considered a vet is an option for me right now, that means I want the towniest out of: Toad, gonzaw, Annul, prplhz, Sandroba, Chezinu (technically speaking that is), maybe BKE and austin idk. I'm not geting voted into office due to paranoia (and hypno-toadish-ness) so that's sadly not an option. If Sandro is town we need to figure that out as quickly as possible and make him mayor though. ..to this?: On January 20 2013 12:54 Toadesstern wrote: looks like we have to vote someone into office who's usually not a decent candidate at all if Sandroba is not running... You not getting elected 10 times in a row isn't exactly something nice, is it? :p Prplhz seems to be running on bullshit Gonzaw is someone who noone with a functioning brain should want in a position of power Same probably goes for me and Chezinu... Gawd I was so hoping for Sandroba and now I'm stuck with these people... we really needed more vets in this game, this is troublesome  You did show intent on voting any of those guys initially, as long as they were the "towniest" out of that group, but then out of nowhere you discard most of those "vets", even when not much happened in between. Also what's this about "nobody with a functioning brain should want (gonzaw) in a position of power"? Care to expand on that? Other than not being "very sure" in some games, when I'm town I can catch scum fairly easy (relatively speaking), specially on D1. Aperture Mafia II should attest to that. | ||
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AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
A while ago, I made this post...http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17574831 In it I said.. You say: "My major influence in steering the outcome of a lynch will be applied to pressure people." I like pressure plays here is one of mine.... Where does the buck stop though? Does it ever stop with you? At the time i was referring to pressure applied to mayoral candidates to be clear on their agenda. The thread turned up distracted me and I lost that. Please be aware I do read my own filter too. Thsoe uestions are also pertinent to your continued existence. Remeber you yourself want to leave the Lurkers to the Vigis Is it your intention to answer the questions I put to you? If not Why Not? You do remember we are also hunting scum today... yes? Ok this question gets past just mayoral priorities You say "After D1, lurkers will be attacked." Why not D1... You having posted your candidacy are now Lurking? Was that it? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Why would you vote Chezinu before any other guys? Is it just his "Imma be serious" claim? | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
How do you feel about this mayoral election ? Why did you avoid the subject so far ? Would you run a campaign ? Who would you vote for if you had to choose right now and why ? | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 20 2013 13:39 yamato77 wrote: @Clarity He doesn't think we have to vote someone like Vivax (someone he believes is easy to read) in order to ensure a townie being elected. I suppose I'll come out and give my plan for the day. I don't give a flying fuck right now who gets mayor. What I do care about is lynching scum, and to do that town needs to make a consolidated effort to scumhunt day 1 instead of this townhunting idea that Toad wants to put forth. I say we elect mayor based on whether they are scumhunting effectively. If people want to be mayor, they need to scumhunt, pick their day 1 lynch target, and let town decide based on the quality of the read. If there are multiple mayoral candidates who are picking the same target(s), then we can consider things like how easy it is to read that candidate, and how town they are, but I see no reason to waste all of day 1 figuring out who the most amount of people think is town when the name of the game is lynching scum, and the mayor has the sole power to do so today. To be elected mayor, a player needs good scum reads, not just the ability to look town for a cycle. can't sleep Anyways you know me and you know that that isn't what I said at all, neither was it what it was intended to look like... You played with me two games and you know that I'm the guy who HATES talking about townreads the most out of all the people on TL. From LVIII: On January 03 2013 11:39 Toadesstern wrote: Seriously, why do people start talking about townreads all the time? I hate that and nowadays everyone does it. Even you marv... you're better than that. There's no reason to talk about a townread, no matter how weak or how strong on d1 unless the guy in question is about to be lynched. Don't give people an easy time skating by by dropping some random townreads, talk about things you consider to be weird. Pretty sure I said something like that in YANMM as well, stating that it's almost impossible to judge people based on townreads and you've been in both Yamato, so you should know that. What I said was: It should be easy to pick someone who's townish among the vets. I never said we should be talking about townreads or not scumhunt at all. Not once. Frankly speaking given the posts I did (I admit it's from the 2 other games...) you should have come to the conclusion that it's the exact opposite I'm telling people given the fact that you've been in both of them because I was openly stating that it's almost impossible to judge people based on weak ass townreads they give. Did you completly forget who I am or are you trrying to misinterpret everything I stand for on TL-mafia on purpose? | ||
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AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
Axle, in pre-game did you want to be mayor or not? I never fully understood that. Why would you vote Chezinu before any other guys? Is it just his "Imma be serious" claim?[/QUOTE] These look like actual questions. Answering backwards order cos its easier. Why Vote chez + Show Spoiler + Chezinu is someone I surprisingly can usually think I understand. His I am always honest claim is one I would bank on. I just have to try real hard to see what I think he says. I think he counts on scum not bothering that hard. His I just wanna survive and have fun is another thing I believe as a truth about him. His two quoted posts are plausible and self consistent. If being mayor lets him open up and Go... That I want to see. Exactly what that means how direct would he be, how good is he, these i don't know. My votes are way to get a better glimpse of what he is then prepared to show. The chezinu vote is real, in the sense that: it is real, iff he then ponies up the right amount of collateral to support his claimed potential changes in play style. Sounds like good trade. the other Vets will just live longer if Mayor, Chezinu will potentially live longer and play better? As a feel read approach to why the vote... I am reminded of really old game called Master Of magic The guide to it says they would like to see the AI summon Toren Once, just once. Toren in that game is a virtual force of nature, one game strategy is to summon toren but it requires such huge resource commitment that normally you just could have won the other way. I wish to Summon a Chezinu once. regarding my pregame posts. There is in most players mind a large wall between pregame and now. there is not in my mind. I laid down a page of filter for reals, the scumminess of the reads was tongue in cheek as we had no PMs, although the set me up ones where Djo tried (in jest?) to get me wedded to a self accepted scum read heuristic that was malleable at his whim was a bit bloody. I cant blame a guy for trying on the just in case..? its like just say no to drugs, the rush would pander to my self esteem, then thered be the reality, it just doesnt make any sense + Show Spoiler [me and the mayor] + me and being mayor. I think I was fairly clear. I should [b]not[b] be mayor. Thats not personal desire it was an analysis. I believe I gave the reasoning. The reasoning is as true now as it was then. basically i am not imba enough to carry the responsibility and more importantly the accountability for being mayor. Accountability was the secret word Vivax missed. Scum I hope cant be sure how townie town thinks I am. Which is why I was so very very clear you give town read on me I lynch you(try anyways), unless i am a day vig.... in which case i just end you. Scum don't need or deserve more free information. I expect to be perceived as weak, being a 2 game noob who arsed up his first one, I even expect this very sentence I am saying is just seen as bravado. I have not counted much, but IIRC my scum reads have not been good, although in solo obs I felt like i was successful, but hey thats just me saying.... Lots of people think they have good reads when they look back at them. In one syllable words (just in case i wasnt clear yet,...) Me not big man. me no good for that. me do bad reads me then get dead for no good read. Not good, bad. me sad if you make me big man cos then me die by your hand then at Lynch. Lynch mayor is big bad waste of stuff. waste that is bad for town. And that is it. Mayor is an advantage to own in that its expensive for scum to take the mayor down. Electing me throws that away as I reckon i will then get lynched by town for being bad. Hell scum may not panic at keeping me until LyLo. i am sure they would be down for playing chicken with town over who kills th unproductive mayor that town elected. Town is bound to lynch me before scum bother killing me. it is a no win game. Id repeat that again for emphasis but... I suppose you had to know if my pregame patter was for realsies, yep I am wedded to it. Hell i am wedded to it every game until my D1 reads rock the house. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 20 2013 14:13 gonzaw wrote: Toad, I got a question for you: What made you go from this: ..to this?: You did show intent on voting any of those guys initially, as long as they were the "towniest" out of that group, but then out of nowhere you discard most of those "vets", even when not much happened in between. Also what's this about "nobody with a functioning brain should want (gonzaw) in a position of power"? Care to expand on that? Other than not being "very sure" in some games, when I'm town I can catch scum fairly easy (relatively speaking), specially on D1. Aperture Mafia II should attest to that. You had a selfclaimed mafia in your last game we played together, who even claimed every single night action he did for confirmation which made sense with all the blue actions being claimed, ahead of time. because the game was already won and you didn't correctly read him as mafia. That kind of sticks in my head to be honest. I can catch mafia as town fairly easy as well if I'm having a good game. If I'm not I'm a total disaster, I'd say the same goes for you because you are the most stubborn guy I know. About the change: Well it's like I said, Sandro would be the only one I consider to have both important treats for a mayor combined. Noone else has those in this game so it's like this: Sandro >>>>>>Annul/gonzaw/prplhz/chez/Toad >>>>>>>>> everyone else | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
 )You do realize it's a completely different kind of game than "standard" mafia right? The anti-town factions in that game weren't trying to hide like they do in normal games. I'm good at catching the anti-town guys trying to hide  Toad, what do you make of sandro not running for mayor? He didn't post anything other than that too, although I think he made another one-liner. For the life of me I can't figure out a "plan" town sandro can come up with that doesn't deal with him being mayor, so he's either bullshitting or severely sub-optimally playing (from his POV if he's town). Anyways it's getting late so Imma play some fifa and go to sleep | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
*I'm good at catching the anti-town guys trying to hide (except SKs, fuck those guys I can never read them correctly ) | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
1)Vivax made his "campaign post" as soon as the game started, and completely disappeared. If he was town actually trying to be mayor...one would have thought he'd keep around trying to either do what town does (hunt scum as early as possible and start discussion) or at the very least answer questions regarding his mayor campaign. 2)Stutters' entrance in the game seemed pretty underwhelming. Even though there's nothing "solid" to go on about most people, he just seemed to ask seemingly "unrelated" questions without trying to participate that much in discussions. I saw him make his first "weak" post (at least in a general sense), then ask some questions, "lurk" in between and ask some other questions. It's not much to go on, I'd want him to take a stance on the whole sandro issue and other candidates perhaps. There are some guys I don't even know, like Fivesomething and Donotsomething, I take it they are smurfs? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On January 20 2013 15:03 AxleGreaser wrote: QUOTE]On January 20 2013 14:18 gonzaw wrote: Axle, in pre-game did you want to be mayor or not? I never fully understood that. Why would you vote Chezinu before any other guys? Is it just his "Imma be serious" claim? These look like actual questions. Answering backwards order cos its easier. Why Vote chez + Show Spoiler + Chezinu is someone I surprisingly can usually think I understand. His I am always honest claim is one I would bank on. I just have to try real hard to see what I think he says. I think he counts on scum not bothering that hard. His I just wanna survive and have fun is another thing I believe as a truth about him. His two quoted posts are plausible and self consistent. If being mayor lets him open up and Go... That I want to see. Exactly what that means how direct would he be, how good is he, these i don't know. My votes are way to get a better glimpse of what he is then prepared to show. The chezinu vote is real, in the sense that: it is real, iff he then ponies up the right amount of collateral to support his claimed potential changes in play style. Sounds like good trade. the other Vets will just live longer if Mayor, Chezinu will potentially live longer and play better? As a feel read approach to why the vote... I am reminded of really old game called Master Of magic The guide to it says they would like to see the AI summon Toren Once, just once. Toren in that game is a virtual force of nature, one game strategy is to summon toren but it requires such huge resource commitment that normally you just could have won the other way. I wish to Summon a Chezinu once. regarding my pregame posts. There is in most players mind a large wall between pregame and now. there is not in my mind. I laid down a page of filter for reals, the scumminess of the reads was tongue in cheek as we had no PMs, although the set me up ones where Djo tried (in jest?) to get me wedded to a self accepted scum read heuristic that was malleable at his whim was a bit bloody. I cant blame a guy for trying on the just in case..? its like just say no to drugs, the rush would pander to my self esteem, then thered be the reality, it just doesnt make any sense + Show Spoiler [me and the mayor] + me and being mayor. I think I was fairly clear. I should [b]not[b] be mayor. Thats not personal desire it was an analysis. I believe I gave the reasoning. The reasoning is as true now as it was then. basically i am not imba enough to carry the responsibility and more importantly the accountability for being mayor. Accountability was the secret word Vivax missed. Scum I hope cant be sure how townie town thinks I am. Which is why I was so very very clear you give town read on me I lynch you(try anyways), unless i am a day vig.... in which case i just end you. Scum don't need or deserve more free information. I expect to be perceived as weak, being a 2 game noob who arsed up his first one, I even expect this very sentence I am saying is just seen as bravado. I have not counted much, but IIRC my scum reads have not been good, although in solo obs I felt like i was successful, but hey thats just me saying.... Lots of people think they have good reads when they look back at them. In one syllable words (just in case i wasnt clear yet,...) Me not big man. me no good for that. me do bad reads me then get dead for no good read. Not good, bad. me sad if you make me big man cos then me die by your hand then at Lynch. Lynch mayor is big bad waste of stuff. waste that is bad for town. And that is it. Mayor is an advantage to own in that its expensive for scum to take the mayor down. Electing me throws that away as I reckon i will then get lynched by town for being bad. Hell scum may not panic at keeping me until LyLo. i am sure they would be down for playing chicken with town over who kills th unproductive mayor that town elected. Town is bound to lynch me before scum bother killing me. it is a no win game. Id repeat that again for emphasis but... I suppose you had to know if my pregame patter was for realsies, yep I am wedded to it. Hell i am wedded to it every game until my D1 reads rock the house. [/QUOTE] ...ehh.....what? | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 20 2013 15:17 gonzaw wrote: You are still hung up because of Every man? (I take it you don't want me mayor because I made you lose >_> )You do realize it's a completely different kind of game than "standard" mafia right? The anti-town factions in that game weren't trying to hide like they do in normal games. I'm good at catching the anti-town guys trying to hide Toad, what do you make of sandro not running for mayor? He didn't post anything other than that too, although I think he made another one-liner. For the life of me I can't figure out a "plan" town sandro can come up with that doesn't deal with him being mayor, so he's either bullshitting or severely sub-optimally playing (from his POV if he's town). Anyways it's getting late so Imma play some fifa and go to sleep oh it's fine. I've got the Drama queen award 2012 for a reason. I like to exaggerate, especially d1 to get things going. So you should be taking most things I say early on with a graint of salt. You're fine, you're just not the optimal solution. The optimal solution would be having Sandroba, Rad and Syllo all playing and being able to just pick one out of those 3 guys. That's obviously not going to happen because 2 of those guys aren't playing and the 3rd guy might end up being mafia if we're unlucky. About him not running: It's strange but it's not a tell imo. I don't think he'd get in here and tell people he's not running as mafia either, do you? He's not good as mafia but he's not that bad to think people will ignore it so it has to be something he'd do no matter of alignment because he's sick of how games are usually going for him. And I actually know that (being sick of how games are going for him) for a fact so I'm fine with him right now. Need him to post more though. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 20 2013 15:24 gonzaw wrote: Just before I go to sleep 2 things caught my attention since I've skimmed the thread: 1)Vivax made his "campaign post" as soon as the game started, and completely disappeared. If he was town actually trying to be mayor...one would have thought he'd keep around trying to either do what town does (hunt scum as early as possible and start discussion) or at the very least answer questions regarding his mayor campaign. 2)Stutters' entrance in the game seemed pretty underwhelming. Even though there's nothing "solid" to go on about most people, he just seemed to ask seemingly "unrelated" questions without trying to participate that much in discussions. I saw him make his first "weak" post (at least in a general sense), then ask some questions, "lurk" in between and ask some other questions. It's not much to go on, I'd want him to take a stance on the whole sandro issue and other candidates perhaps. There are some guys I don't even know, like Fivesomething and Donotsomething, I take it they are smurfs? what do you make of this one: On January 20 2013 11:02 AxleGreaser wrote: + Show Spoiler + EDWOP. yeah you can probably ignore that, i had not read the meta. So if your not a VET, and vets are too valuable to let get lynched D1 but they will obviously get nkd pretty fast... how come we are making you mayor again? if you are in your view in the vet league what is your current view on list posts such as this one http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15025535 personally i find them decidedly anti town, and thus only unscummy(nullish) if I hold the belief the poster didnt know any better. do you hold a rigid policy view on their efficacy. What would you in this game make of player posting this: "Okay, I've been doing a stance analysis on the grush case and here's my promised post:" That says nothing alignment indicative about this game obviously, but it may say something about responsibility and that other thing that goes right along with it. I sheep Toad, even if i needed to find all my own reasons... ? | ||
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