EPTI still want to hear from Hapa, but Hopeless in the meantime is not making himself look any better.
Dessert Mini Mafia - Page 73
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I still want to hear from Hapa, but Hopeless in the meantime is not making himself look any better. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
If anyone wants me to reply to the Hopeless case, I'll do so. Otherwise, I don't think it's worth my time. It's almost entirely based on pre-flip associations with Lazermonkey. Given that, it's nonsensical for him to want to lynch me before seeing Lazermonkey flip. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On January 20 2013 05:00 wherebugsgo wrote: Let's not forget he has no reads outside of Hapa. I still want to hear from Hapa, but Hopeless in the meantime is not making himself look any better. Hey d00d, hear from me on what? | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
##Vote: Hopeless WBG Wbgs vote pattern yesterday is veeery funky indeed. He voted/unvoted between SlOosh and Hopeless no less than 5(!) times. Let's look a little bit closer at all this. The first vote On January 16 2013 09:06 wherebugsgo wrote: After this WBG goes on to put HEAVY pressure on SlOosh, points out several things in SlOosh play that makes him scum. ##vote slOosh This vote is not moving until you give me your scumreads and reasons. If I do not believe you, then you will die today. The second vote On January 16 2013 13:02 wherebugsgo wrote: While admittedly I think he is getting convinced by the guy he thinks he scum a little bit too fast, I don't really see any problem with this vote. He did state quite explicit that he had Hopeless down as scum.ah, I was still on the previous page when I started writing that. alright, fair enough. Let's bring out Hopeless and then we can move onto this slOosh business later. ##unvote ##vote Hopeless1der The third vote On January 17 2013 01:42 wherebugsgo wrote: Now, this is when things start to get fishy. WBG states that because he read my post about about Hopeless play last game and how its similar to last game, he is now much more inclined to belive that Hopeless looks town, or at least much better. However, I have a hard time thinking this is what actually happend. In last game, all of us three were town. Me and WBG were heavily suspicious of Hopeless that game(WBG filter). Both of us were pushing him hard core. I have a hard time seeing that WBG just forgot all this in a few days and needed my post as a reminder, especially since he seems to be a guy remembering things like this. For example, he was very fast at dissmissing my accusations against Jay PURELY based on meta from another game, a game that was played about a month ago. alright, let's go for it. I actually like Hopeless's thoughts in his last post and Lazer looks much better because he pointed out something that I noticed too; in Hopeless's last game he played somewhat similar to this. slOosh, on the other hand, is still scum. ##unvote ##vote slOosh Also note how during the time that he voted Hopeless, He doesn't really pressure him at all. He only has one post asking Hopeless about whether or not he is willing to lynch into SlOosh or not. This is in stark difference to when he was pushing SlOosh scum. The forth vote On January 17 2013 04:18 wherebugsgo wrote: Once again, this is a very scummy vote. In just three hours he went from saying that he liked Hopeless posting much more, that he saw similarities to his last game and that SlOosh was scum to the opposite. Hopeless doesn't actually post even once during the time between the third and forth vote. WBG is instead convinced by Hapa's arguments on the issue. During the time between those two votes WBG goes on to say that Hopeless is a good lynch once again. But what happend with Hopeless improved posting? What happend with the meta read that made him look more town? And during this time, WBG still seems convinced that SlOosh is a good lynch, yet he votes Hopeless. alright. I'm feeling lazy so let's just kill Hopeless. I don't think anything is going to happen in the near future to make either read stronger and so it's just best to consolidate our votes rather than continue to inflate the thread with further pointless back-and-forths. ##unvote ##vote Hopeless1der He also tells us to conolidate which is strange because the votecount at this point was looking like this: On January 17 2013 01:50 Dandel Ion wrote: Votecount: slOosh (4): jaybrundage, wherebugsgo, thrawn, MrZentor Hopeless1der (2): Hapahauli, slOosh Lazermonkey (1): Hopeless1der wherebugsgo (1): Xatalos Not voting (3): iamperfection, grush57, Lazermonkey Currently, slOosh is set to be lynched! ~31 hours until deadline. The fifth and final vote On January 18 2013 07:49 wherebugsgo wrote: Not much to say. WBG doesn't really motivate this swap at all and would he have voted Hopeless, hopeless would've died.yes, let's speculate about an SK for no reason at all... let's see what happens if I do this: ##unvote ##vote slOosh Summary: WBG is flipping his vote like a mad man between Hopeless and SlOosh. However, while he is pushing SlOsh hard, he doesn't push hopeless at all. He even pushes SlOosh while he is voting Hopeless. As for the last scum, I'm not sure. My best guess at this point is grush because of the simple explanation that I have a town read, albeit not too strong, on every else. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On January 20 2013 05:02 Hapahauli wrote: Mornin' all If anyone wants me to reply to the Hopeless case, I'll do so. Otherwise, I don't think it's worth my time. It's almost entirely based on pre-flip associations with Lazermonkey. Given that, it's nonsensical for him to want to lynch me before seeing Lazermonkey flip. Yeah thats what we need, more people unwilling to give out reads or put content into the thread. If the town doesn't see fit to request this, they* deserve to lose. * Disclaimer: Use of the word 'they' referring to the town is in no way, shape, or form indicative of a scumslip. Please fuck off and die if you believe otherwise MARTYRDOM I'm not posting again until someone has Hapa address my case against him. @Lazer's vote: Convenient that my town-meta can't be used to defend me anymore, now that you need to justify a vote on me. You're entire bugs case is associative contingent on me flipping scum (I won't). It's almost worth it to die, with the exception that I don't trust anyone to follow through once they realize you haven't properly hunted scum all game. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On January 20 2013 05:57 Hopeless1der wrote:@Lazer's vote: I beg to differ. My bugs case is based on several points. The fact that he votes you but pushes SlOosh at the same time, the fact that he changes his opinion on who to vote on very... peculiar reasons, the fact that he didn't take meta in account before I pointed it out, etc are all stuff that makes him look bad even if you aren't scum. Convenient that my town-meta can't be used to defend me anymore, now that you need to justify a vote on me. You're entire bugs case is associative contingent on me flipping scum (I won't). It's almost worth it to die, with the exception that I don't trust anyone to follow through once they realize you haven't properly hunted scum all game. | ||
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iamperfection
United States9645 Posts
On January 20 2013 05:57 Hopeless1der wrote: Yeah thats what we need, more people unwilling to give out reads or put content into the thread. If the town doesn't see fit to request this, they* deserve to lose. * Disclaimer: Use of the word 'they' referring to the town is in no way, shape, or form indicative of a scumslip. Please fuck off and die if you believe otherwise MARTYRDOM I'm not posting again until someone has Hapa address my case against him. @Lazer's vote: Convenient that my town-meta can't be used to defend me anymore, now that you need to justify a vote on me. You're entire bugs case is associative contingent on me flipping scum (I won't). It's almost worth it to die, with the exception that I don't trust anyone to follow through once they realize you haven't properly hunted scum all game. Wth is wrong with you? It like all you want to talk about is hapa. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Anyway some of my reasons to switch votes were lazy or waffly (or deceptive even) but I did want both slOosh and Hopeless to stay relevant lynches. I could have said nothing at all and I would have done the vote switches anyway. That's why, for example, my vote was on Hopeless for the majority of the time. He was consistently behind in votes. If I swapped over to slOosh at a bad time then it would make a Hopeless lynch less likely, because a net 2 vote switch is likely to scare off all the noobs into making real stances. If you're town and can't understand why I would want a close lynch, and why I would be interested in forcing scum to take sides like that, then I'd suggest you reread Ver's town guide. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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iamperfection
United States9645 Posts
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
On January 20 2013 06:29 wherebugsgo wrote: BTW I mentioned a town RB targeting Xata/Hapa being dumb but a JK on those same targets would not be, so my previous assessment didn't mention that. Because of that we can't really tell too much from the RB claims IMO. Oh yeah, that's certainly possible. | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On January 20 2013 06:41 iamperfection wrote: Hapa adresss his case in full so the idiot dosent have an excuse for being quiet. The thing is, most of the reason he's "suspicious" of me is because of association with lazer. Which is nonsensical. Because if this is the case, why the fuck is he voting me instead of Lazer? "Lazer is scum, therefore I'm going to vote someone who's scum by association!" - this is not a town mentality. Otherwise, he pretty much looked through my filter and shoveled shit on anything he could find. Of note: My vote on Ruuch - I explained this earlier: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=60#1191 My stance on SS - Hopeless says that me changing my mind on SuperSoft is scummy on day one. Given the volatility of Day 1 play and reads, this is absurd. I questioned him a bunch, and him completely and openly ignoring me, coupled with is confrontational attitude in general made me lean town on him for most of Day 1. Hopeless's OMGUS - Basically Hopeless accuses me of "shitting all over him" and mis-interpreting his Meta. As for "shitting all over him" - it's called making cases and scum-hunting. As for his meta, Hopeless asserts that his play in Mafia LVIII was similar to his play here, and that I willfully ignored it. I wasn't in that game so I wasn't familiar with it. I reasonably drew on the two games I played with Hopeless in recent memory (Mario Mini + CT Mafia) in which he played completely differently. As for Mafia LVIII, one game he played passively as town doesn't outweight all the other games he aggresively played as town. In addition, WBG mentioned that he (hopeless) played as he did in LVIII due to time constraints. He had no such excuse here. But Hopeless acts like meta is a large part of my case. It isn't. He treats iamp/ruuch as town for questionable reasons, he soft-pushed the Prome lynch and is brushing it off like it's no big deal, he's had Lazer as a scum-read all game and has been zealously pushing OTHER targets all game , some by pre-flip associations with his top scumread. | ||
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iamperfection
United States9645 Posts
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On January 20 2013 06:41 iamperfection wrote: Hapa adresss his case in full so the idiot dosent have an excuse for being quiet. Thanks, champ... On January 20 2013 06:43 Xatalos wrote: Now martyring.... I don't think any sane town would hide most of their reads and then stop posting like that. This only kills discussion and makes this day less useful. As town, he would at least try to make this day more useful. Clearly that's not the case here. You think allowing my top scumread to ignore me is useful? No one wants to talk about it, no one gives it a second glance. Bugs takes the time to LOL at me: On January 20 2013 04:55 wherebugsgo wrote: Lol is Hopeless's argument against the RB claims REALLY "what if there is a town RB"? Here's a fact: if you are a town RB, I expect you to claim right the fuck now. It's far likelier that scum have RB, not town. The RBs in this context make much more sense, particularly given that a confirmed SK called Xata blue. If any town RBed Xata following that then they are incredibly retarded. Hopeless is stupid for missing this in the first place, and IMO it cements the notion that he is scum. OH WAIT I FERGOT On January 20 2013 06:29 wherebugsgo wrote: BTW I mentioned a town RB targeting Xata/Hapa being dumb but a JK on those same targets would not be, so my previous assessment didn't mention that. Because of that we can't really tell too much from the RB claims IMO. Fuck you too you dumb motherfucker. I want Hapa or Lazer lynched today. Prom wanted Lazer, as did SS. Guess which other confirmed town found Lazer scummy? On January 19 2013 06:57 thrawn2112 wrote: Tomorrow town should put a lot of focus on hopeless and lazermonkey with special emphasis on lazermonkey. both lynches people have actively pushed for his lynch and it just couldn't happen. yes, "town" have been lynched both times so that's not proof that lazer is scum, but the fact that lazer has been so scummy and not been lynched should be more than enough to convince you to at least go back through filters and read stuff that's been written about him. Here's D1 votecount: I'm using the last votecount before ruuch entered the thread. 2 people on lazer's wagon were confirmed town. That plus EVERYTHING that's happened since N1 should be more than enough to reason to hang lazermonkey. Just go back and read the exchange I had with him where he was completely unable to talk about reads, other than the read he was sheeping. (also interesting to mention that lazer was sheeping wbg, even tho wbg was one of the very few people it looked like lazer might be suspicious of.) The small amount he posted earlier today was scummy.. his most recent conclusion/insight is that hopeless and xatalos are probably not both scum. How is this helpful at all? It's the latest in a long pattern of lazermonkey making no attempt at all to scumhunt. Hapa is also one to worry about. D1 he pushed to lynch prom, then abandoned his scumread to vote for ruuch. If hapa turns out to be scum, I don't think that will say anything about ruuch's alignment. If ruuch is scum, he would have been a great buss opportunity. In N1 and D2 hapa tunneled hopeless the majority of the time.... but I don't remember him actually trying too hard to get hopeless lynched or entering into other conversations. I think wbg is town but you should pay attention to how well he contributes towards lynching scum from here on out. Same thing applies to hapa. everyone else I don't really have any relevant thoughts about. But does anyone re-visit the past like they're supposed to? How am I supposed to convince you to go after Lazer if everything has already been addressed? How am I supposed to get more than 1 person lynched at a time? I have yet to get any contribution from anyone regarding my scumread on Hapa (Hapa you don't count, no hard feelings, but I think you're scum). I try to present something fresh to the thread and I get promptly ignored and/or called stupid. There will be yet another case on Lazer, either later tonight or tomorrow morning. In the meantime: HEY TOWN, SHEEP YOUR DEAD BRETHREN, KILL LAZERMONKEY. ##Unvote: Hapahauli ##Vote: Lazermonkey On January 20 2013 07:33 Hapahauli wrote: The thing is, most of the reason he's "suspicious" of me is because of association with lazer. Which is nonsensical. Because if this is the case, why the fuck is he voting me instead of Lazer? "Lazer is scum, therefore I'm going to vote someone who's scum by association!" - this is not a town mentality. Otherwise, he pretty much looked through my filter and shoveled shit on anything he could find. Of note: My vote on Ruuch - I explained this earlier: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=60#1191 My stance on SS - Hopeless says that me changing my mind on SuperSoft is scummy on day one. Given the volatility of Day 1 play and reads, this is absurd. I questioned him a bunch, and him completely and openly ignoring me, coupled with is confrontational attitude in general made me lean town on him for most of Day 1. Hopeless's OMGUS - Basically Hopeless accuses me of "shitting all over him" and mis-interpreting his Meta. As for "shitting all over him" - it's called making cases and scum-hunting. As for his meta, Hopeless asserts that his play in Mafia LVIII was similar to his play here, and that I willfully ignored it. I wasn't in that game so I wasn't familiar with it. I reasonably drew on the two games I played with Hopeless in recent memory (Mario Mini + CT Mafia) in which he played completely differently. As for Mafia LVIII, one game he played passively as town doesn't outweight all the other games he aggresively played as town. In addition, WBG mentioned that he (hopeless) played as he did in LVIII due to time constraints. He had no such excuse here. But Hopeless acts like meta is a large part of my case. It isn't. He treats iamp/ruuch as town for questionable reasons, he soft-pushed the Prome lynch and is brushing it off like it's no big deal, he's had Lazer as a scum-read all game and has been zealously pushing OTHER targets all game , some by pre-flip associations with his top scumread. I didn't go after you just because of the Lazer association. For proof, look at the three things you address in the quoted post. However you're right, there is a lot of associative stuff in there, so I suppose I'll go finish the job of getting Lazer lynched and then I'll just repost my case when he flips scum, cool? I maintain that you're vote on Ruuch is way worse than my own. Your explanation is insufficient when compared to your own reasoning for reading SS as scum. I had no excuse about "time constraints" in LVIII either. The excuse I think bugs is referring to was my defense against Lazer that game, where I cited LVII as a game where I was significantly more active and useful. Not due to having more time, but because I was just doing stuff in the thread more. I still was generally lurky, but more useful overall. As for me pushing "other" candidates, from the time I started with Lazer I pushed - Lazer as a scumread - Ruuch as a "NOT Prom, please not Prom" read - Pressured, but never pursued Zentor - slOosh for self-preservation reasons, while still maintaining Lazer is scum - WIFOM`d my vote back onto Lazer - You - Xata My top reads are you and Lazer. You're my more pressing concern because you are a huge factor in getting me lynched, and since I have a scumread on you in addition to Lazer, I have every reason to try to get you lynched for it. I assume (omg that word) I'm going to die, so my association suspicions are already in the thread. Town isn't going to get another chance in the event I die, so it becomes more important to peg the entire team as the game progresses, especially given that I'm likely to get lynched before you. Great timing btw, going out again =\ | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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iamperfection
United States9645 Posts
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jaybrundage
United States3921 Posts
Hopeless points on hapa only make sense if Lazer is scum so not too swayed by it. Does anyone feel if this lynch is going to smoothly? Like does scum just think that hopeless is screwed and are bussing him. The lack of a counter wagon makes me feel wary. | ||
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