Dessert Mini Mafia - Page 75

On January 20 2013 09:44 Lazermonkey wrote:


So, how am I being dumb if your reason for voting someone is deceptive(even from your own PoV)?

I can buy that you wanted to hold the voting close. But that isn't a very relevant part of the case anyway. For example, it doesn't explain the fact that you first say that hopeless looks much better after his post + the fact that he played similar to this last game as town and then moments later say that he is just as scummy SlOosh. It also doesn't explain the fact that you didn't push Hopeless at all during the day, while you were pushing SlOosh like no tomorrow.

On January 20 2013 13:19 grush57 wrote:
Seeing hopeless' flip makes or breaks the reads bro.

On January 20 2013 09:47 Lazermonkey wrote:
Jay: If Hopeless is scum, I think it is perfectly possible that they would just buss him, given the situation he is in.

On January 20 2013 19:57 Xatalos wrote:


This is pretty much based on WBG trying to save his scumbuddy Hopeless, I guess. If Hopeless flips town, is WBG still scum in your mind? What makes WBG scum outside of this connection?

On January 20 2013 20:33 Lazermonkey wrote:
Hopeless flipping scum would obviously make WBG look much worse. But even then, it doesn't actually explain some stuff. WBG doesn't actually PUSH Hopeless at all. Just look at his filter. He is only pushing SLOosh. Even when voting Hopeless, he is pushing SlOosh. He dissmisses all my accusations with that he wanted to keep the voting close. I do agree with that keeping the voting close is a nice thing to do as town, however its not a very relevant part of my case at all. I'm not pushing him for the fact THAT he swapped his vote, but rather how he did it.

Now, ask youself this. Almost ALL day, SlOosh was leading in votes. If WBG really did want to keep the voting close and were fine with both Hopeless and SlOosh lynches, why did he push SlOosh and not Hopeless?

Also, Look at SlOosh last analytical post, he has some good points on WBG as well. WBG is scum for me no matter what Hopeless flips.

On January 20 2013 21:00 Xatalos wrote:


It made me suspicious of WBG earlier how he had called almost everyone scum at some point, but mostly just posted lists with 3-5 scum suspects (being fine with lynching any of them). That was a really vague and scummy way to approach the lynches. Your point about him pushing Sloosh and not focusing on Hopeless is actually more townish in itself than being vague and open about the choice. Of course it can be considered as helping his scumbuddy, although that's pretty blatant and risky as well. All in all I'd say that Hopeless flipping scum makes WBG look a bit worse, but not scummy enough to be lynch-worthy considering his overall behaviour during D2. He was basically the leading poster and thread pusher for the whole day. It's really hard to imagine for scum to take so much responsibility over the discussion.

On January 20 2013 21:15 Lazermonkey wrote:
Do explain!

On January 20 2013 21:48 Xatalos wrote:


If we assume that WBG is town (so he has no information about the alignments of Sloosh or Hopeless), it feels natural to push one of the main lynch candidates over the other one. It would in fact feel unnatural to just be indifferent about which one of them gets lynched as town.

On January 20 2013 22:07 Lazermonkey wrote:
Then don't you think its strange that WBG is trying to get cred because he tried hard to make the lynch as close as possible while he was actually pushing towards the opposite?

He did state quite explicit that he HAD them both down as scum and that he did in fact feel indifferent about who to lynch. Yet he chose only to push SlOosh even tho Hopeless was behind in votes almost all day.

On January 20 2013 05:29 Lazermonkey wrote:
Hopeless is probebly scum after all... Sure, his play is similar to what it was last game but on the other hand him playing similar to last game when he was town is actually completely irrelevant because it actually doesn't tell us anything about his play as scum. Also, his play overall simply isn't townie at all. His posted some long posts some time ago but the first one was just him echoing what he said D2, Hapa + Lazer are scum. The second one was talking about setup. Why would you as town in this position do something like that? A townie who is just about to die would do ANYTHING to help his team get on the right track and give out all reads because when he flips, everyone will know that what he said was comming from a townie who at least wanted to hunt scum. Him repeating reads isn't helpfull at all. We would go through his filter anyway once he flips and find those reads. With that being said, Hopeless is going to get lynched today it seems, and spending more time explaining why he is scum seems

##Vote: Hopeless

WBG

Wbgs vote pattern yesterday is veeery funky indeed. He voted/unvoted between SlOosh and Hopeless no less than 5(!) times. Let's look a little bit closer at all this.

The first voteAfter this WBG goes on to put HEAVY pressure on SlOosh, points out several things in SlOosh play that makes him scum.

The second vote
While admittedly I think he is getting convinced by the guy he thinks he scum a little bit too fast, I don't really see any problem with this vote. He did state quite explicit that he had Hopeless down as scum.

The third voteNow, this is when things start to get fishy. WBG states that because he read my post about about Hopeless play last game and how its similar to last game, he is now much more inclined to belive that Hopeless looks town, or at least much better. However, I have a hard time thinking this is what actually happend. In last game, all of us three were town. Me and WBG were heavily suspicious of Hopeless that game(WBG filter). Both of us were pushing him hard core. I have a hard time seeing that WBG just forgot all this in a few days and needed my post as a reminder, especially since he seems to be a guy remembering things like this. For example, he was very fast at dissmissing my accusations against Jay PURELY based on meta from another game, a game that was played about a month ago.

Also note how during the time that he voted Hopeless, He doesn't really pressure him at all. He only has one post asking Hopeless about whether or not he is willing to lynch into SlOosh or not. This is in stark difference to when he was pushing SlOosh scum.

The forth vote

Once again, this is a very scummy vote. In just three hours he went from saying that he liked Hopeless posting much more, that he saw similarities to his last game and that SlOosh was scum to the opposite. Hopeless doesn't actually post even once during the time between the third and forth vote. WBG is instead convinced by Hapa's arguments on the issue. During the time between those two votes WBG goes on to say that Hopeless is a good lynch once again. But what happend with Hopeless improved posting? What happend with the meta read that made him look more town? And during this time, WBG still seems convinced that SlOosh is a good lynch, yet he votes Hopeless.

He also tells us to conolidate which is strange because the votecount at this point was looking like this:

The fifth and final vote

Not much to say. WBG doesn't really motivate this swap at all and would he have voted Hopeless, hopeless would've died.

Summary: WBG is flipping his vote like a mad man between Hopeless and SlOosh. However, while he is pushing SlOsh hard, he doesn't push hopeless at all. He even pushes SlOosh while he is voting Hopeless.

As for the last scum, I'm not sure. My best guess at this point is grush because of the simple explanation that I have a town read, albeit not too strong, on every else.

On January 17 2013 05:58 Lazermonkey wrote:
Meeeh, I really think Hopeless should be defending himself, but since he seem to suck at that... I feel like alot of your points, maybe even all of them, could be explained by the fact that Hopeless is bad. And do you see any scum motivation in scum motivation in saying that a player is suspicious for voting the same person that you are voting yourself? This just seems retarded as both alignments. Also, Hopeless feels like he bases alot of his reads on OMGUS(whoever votes him, he votes etc)

Also, I don't exactly see that he went from vote ruush to Iamp is town without explaination as scummy. ruush was a policy lynch and nothing else, and Iamp is clearly looking better than ruush to say the least.

On January 15 2013 04:39 Promethelax wrote:
I didn't call your case bad, I said I thought any case on jay was bad because he is best mislynch NA.

Your reads being terrible is very alignment indicative, you are up for lynch and you have three reads and calling one dude names. You aren't trying to help town, none of those are new reads and none of them are explained there.

the difference in your play is that in LVIII you felt like a townie trying to work out what was going on and here you feel like a scummer trying to find someone to vote. You are looking for excuses and not reasons.

On January 15 2013 03:24 supersoft wrote:


what you say is false.
If you read me again you can see that i already - before hopeless even mentioned you once - compared your playstyle this game, to your playstyle in kurumis game. + I already downgraded you a whole lot after your first thread appearance.

btw. you are calling me a retard? I just finished my LLM among the top 10>X% of all lawyers in Germany. I guess i am not completely retarded, since people are willing to pay a lot of money for the shit i am talking about.

On January 15 2013 03:27 supersoft wrote:
##vote: Lazermonkey

hehe you just sealed the deal
+ Show Spoiler +

On January 15 2013 00:26 Hopeless1der wrote:
I'm voting Lazermonkey until he justifies why jay is scummy (or finds a proper scumread), because quite frankly he hasn't. He's shown that Jay is playing different than that other time he was town but hasn't shown why he's scum. OMGUS isn't a scumtell if WBG is to be believed, but Lazer puts that on display like its the nail in the coffin. He's scattered his vote and it looks like he's setting up to sheep again when the time comes to consolidate.

##Vote: Lazermonkey

On January 18 2013 03:36 thrawn2112 wrote:
this is exactly the kind of thing I expected to happen if I didn't immediately push the LM lynch at the start of D2. He had a very big impact on the thread during n1 and there was a lot of possible discussion that could come of it. super died, and so there was nobody except me to push his lynch. in the meantime he has done nothing except argue against a hopeless lynch and lightly fling suspicion at wbg, sloosh, and jay. his vote post was lacking original thought. It has been an hour since he voted and I've been asking him to share reads the entire time but he has done nothing but defend himself and talk about wifom.

On January 18 2013 03:58 thrawn2112 wrote:
i feel frustration would be much easier to detect... he is being quite passive about his frustration. he doesn't seem like he actually wants to help in any way.

On January 18 2013 04:09 thrawn2112 wrote:


which is more likely.. that he's town and has no reads or that he;'s scum?

On January 18 2013 05:25 thrawn2112 wrote:


the joke is that lazermonkey is obvious scum and everyone is skirting around the issue

On January 18 2013 07:39 thrawn2112 wrote:
my memories of playing with town hopeless is that I yell at him a lot for not scumhunting.

imo LM is such obvious scum, idk how people aren't voting for him. Prom was lynched instead of Lazer (i'm not counting any votes that happened after ruuch's entrance) and LM had 2 confirmed town (sloosh and prom) voting for him. lets lynch LM please

On January 19 2013 06:57 thrawn2112 wrote:
Tomorrow town should put a lot of focus on hopeless and lazermonkey with special emphasis on lazermonkey. both lynches people have actively pushed for his lynch and it just couldn't happen. yes, "town" have been lynched both times so that's not proof that lazer is scum, but the fact that lazer has been so scummy and not been lynched should be more than enough to convince you to at least go back through filters and read stuff that's been written about him. Here's D1 votecount:




I'm using the last votecount before ruuch entered the thread. 2 people on lazer's wagon were confirmed town. That plus EVERYTHING that's happened since N1 should be more than enough to reason to hang lazermonkey. Just go back and read the exchange I had with him where he was completely unable to talk about reads, other than the read he was sheeping. (also interesting to mention that lazer was sheeping wbg, even tho wbg was one of the very few people it looked like lazer might be suspicious of.)

The small amount he posted earlier today was scummy.. his most recent conclusion/insight is that hopeless and xatalos are probably not both scum. How is this helpful at all? It's the latest in a long pattern of lazermonkey making no attempt at all to scumhunt.

Hapa is also one to worry about. D1 he pushed to lynch prom, then abandoned his scumread to vote for ruuch. If hapa turns out to be scum, I don't think that will say anything about ruuch's alignment. If ruuch is scum, he would have been a great buss opportunity. In N1 and D2 hapa tunneled hopeless the majority of the time.... but I don't remember him actually trying too hard to get hopeless lynched or entering into other conversations.

I think wbg is town but you should pay attention to how well he contributes towards lynching scum from here on out. Same thing applies to hapa.

everyone else I don't really have any relevant thoughts about.