EPTI do not want my LAL to hobby interfere with contributing to the cause. While I vote for lurkers the first two days (no, Mandalore would not have been my choice), I like to set up for day three by pressuring the active members. This pressure is not backed up by a day two vote, but will set the stage for a strong day three.
Newbie Mini Mafia XXXV - Page 32
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
I do not want my LAL to hobby interfere with contributing to the cause. While I vote for lurkers the first two days (no, Mandalore would not have been my choice), I like to set up for day three by pressuring the active members. This pressure is not backed up by a day two vote, but will set the stage for a strong day three. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
I have outstanding statements against your character I would like to see you address. This is directly out of my last will: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391615¤tpage=29#569 [I appreciate theres not direct questions here... but I would like your take on what I have provided. please explain to me why the actions I have noticed below are not scum-motivated.] On January 15 2013 01:02 Mocsta wrote: (4) My reads have evolved since Day1. zarepath was someone I forgot about Day1. he flew under the radar, and then made his presence by landing a bomb. My reasoning for him is not OMGUS.. its actually due to the mismatch between his actions and his promises. The bomb he landed re-enforces this concept. So zarepath is advocating how to foster a strong town environment. Notably, anyone can copy/paste these questions. Its about whether his actions support his claims. I don't believe they do, as follows: (1) Im not really sure what the intention of this post is other than to get a reaction out of Oatsmaster. Its written in a "smart-arse" manner, and the QED claim is intentionally derogatory. We all know from my experience with Oatsmaster, he is officially a hot-head.. so what is the purpose of this? Its definitely contributing to the chaotic environment of Day 1. (2) Again.. how is this fostering any collaborative environment. Its a contribution yes.. but half-arsed.. Why dont you suggest something.. instead of just point out a deficiency. (3) zarepath. you like this.. but what work have you done to facilitate? You make an easy agreement and then do not follow through. This is exacerbated by your Night 1 accusation on me. You throw shit.. and expect people like Shz to follow through with question time. Why arent you breaking down cases as you alluded to promosing. (4) Note the context.. when this vote was issued.. La Guerta was already the front runner.. i think 5 to 2. He moves from a no-post lurker.. to the current town flavour for bandwagon. The justification being modkill... how is this town behaviour or jsutification? I played with town zarepath last game. we were down to the final three. I know his game.. and so far.. its not matching up. (5) Seriously.. WTF is this for a post.. Why is this fostering a good town environment... I dont care this is adressed to me.. its not a suitable post to be addressed to ANYONE.. Its completely open to interpretation and gets us no where. He conveniently doesnt add anything further to this, whilst Shz/Oats question me.. How curious.. Sow the seeds and then lurk away... I re-iterate.. this is in no way OMGUS.. look at the behaviour.. Do you find this acceptable? Why would town act this way? I cant see it. (6) So hes actually been reading and keeping up to date with the thread. So even though he says throws my name in the shit.. he lays silent when Im getting questioned.. and decides to randomly post for the new guy... If he didnt post. I would say.. OK. this guy is asleep. But that he posted to the new guy (who entered convo WAY after I was being questioned).. it suggests he is up to date. TL;DR Guys.. zarepaths post count is limited and many of his responses allow him to fly under the radar. Having said that.. in his short filter he has numerous actions which do not align with his quoted thoughts on how to achieve a good town atmosphere; and he has clear actions which do nothing to aid the confusion that was present near lynch time. I would contest he added fuel to the fire. This is why he is my top scum read. Since my last will, you also posted a summary of your current reads.. Now thats Oats is dead, i noticed your passage On January 15 2013 06:24 zarepath wrote: Oats I voted for him yesterday, but after going through his filter today, he oddly seems to be the most valuable townie we have right now. He has pressured more people than anyone else, which HAS led to discussion. I don't see scum motivations for his behavior other than the free use of his voting power, and erratically switching it around until he finally liked where it rested. That seems to fit with his play style, however, so I don't think that is enough for a scum read, even along with the fact that he was immediately aggressive towards Mocsta -- that seems to be a trend in this game, and it's not necessarily unwarranted. Feels like TOWN Lets recall your vote for Oats here: On January 14 2013 12:35 zarepath wrote: ##Vote Oatsmaster Has not been helpful towards town, was an active scum player in another game (so not necessarily a lurker scum), has unvoted FOUR times, most recently very late in the day when it was almost assured that Laguerta would be lynched regardless. His reasoning? "He's scummy but he's not here to defend himself. I'm gonna go vote for someone that nobody else is voting for and will definitely not get lynched, so when Laguerta flips town, I look good." (Okay, so not his literal read, but a possible motivation was thrown in there.) His timing and his lack of reasoning worry me, and I find him to be far more likely to be scum than Laguerta. If I break these 2 posts down. You firstly admit you voted for Oats, and then proceed to dramatically declare him as town "MVP" even though in your vote for him you said "has not been helpful towards town". You give a brief explanation on the 180' flip... but you never explain why you got over the multiple votes, which I think was a crux in your decision to vote him. Convenient you choose not to address this. Now.. if your actions above are indeed scummy-motivated; is it a simple affair to conclude: if you thought he was so valuable, I think its also straight forward to conclude that a scum zarepath would treat him as a suitable NK. (To paraphrase your choice of words when voting Oats) Therefore, by declaring dramatically Oatsmaster is town "MVP".. I think you made a play to gain town cred as per: ".. so when Oatsmaster flips town, I look good" | ||
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Trotske
410 Posts
On January 15 2013 11:39 Mocsta wrote: Personally. I found his attempt at a re-cap: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391615¤tpage=29#580 to be the most impartial analysis of the Day1 events. Most people that tried to summarise, had the perception skewed towards their goals.. (e.g. Shz with me.. and Sn0_man with Trotske etc etc). Hence.. I found this post useful, I'm surprised you dont care to mention it as a meaningful contribution? @Trotske Spaghetticus identified you as as a low post count, low quality contributer. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391615¤tpage=29#570 You have reciprocated by saying he is only targetting lurkers, and therefore he is a cause for concern. Why would this behaviour be scummy motivated? @Spaghetticus I want to see more from you. I think coming in as a replacement and providing a through summary - that includes original thought is a good sign of your alignment. However, we are now in Day2, and I am going to be watching your actions carefully. Its easy to say you are targeting lurkers, but I want to see this followed through. Actions need to speak louder than words. I ask that you begin to lead the discussions on one your identified scummy-ish lurkers. i.e. It is cause for concern when the only scum hunting he has done is point out that lurkers are bad. | ||
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Trotske
410 Posts
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
This is not a town read of petty scale. I will defend this read, and I want people to know that it is pointless attacking Omni while I am around. I am not someone known for my confidence in my reads, this one I am dead certain of. There is no way that Omni would throw away three compromised town games in order to appear town to someone that he did not know would be in the game. Meta-reads in newbies are generally garbage, but this has mitigating circumstances. I don’t care if you decide not to treat him as confirmed town, I just don’t want anyone wasting their time attacking him. @Zebezt in response to this quote: Did ANYONE think bringaniga was useful the way he was playing? I dont think so. I did. He was trying to foster a town atmosphere by asking people to contribute. Granted, his trolling persona was inexcusable, but he was still doing more for town than 70% of players in the game at that time. @Mocsta I know you’ve come under fire from a lot of vets outside the game for your controlling methods (I also criticised you). At this moment in time, I think the energy you give town is invaluable, so please stop being so damn defensive about every upstart resistance and contribute the best way you know how. Up until now you’ve been so involved in positive self-evaluation and crushing dissenters that you are derailing town and filling the thread with whiny victimised bullshit. While I do have a meta-read on the causal reasons for your butthurtedness, that shit can just as easily be used as a cover for scumming the thread up deliberately. @Sn0 For those curious, I quite simply ignored the mafia game except for 5 mins to read the latest page and toss in my vote. I wasn't "lurking" or "couldn't take the heat". I'm happy to answer direct questions you may have. WTFWTF Want a direct question? What the fuck is this? Am I interpreting this correctly? You just casually ignore the game with no excuse, not because you are lurking but because you DGAF? You’re off my day two LAL list, but you better be able to explain this or you’re a candidate for day three. @Trotske Have you not heard? I am a pretty big deal. LAL is what I live and breathe day 1&2, but I understand your point that my contributions on other fronts have been limited. It may or may not be due to HAVING STARTED 50 HOURS AFTER EVERYONE ELSE. I am aware that I did ask you to contribute and that by going Ad-Hom I would be an enormous hypocrite. That you ask for contribution from someone who has been losing sleep catching up on the thread while you are sitting on a two-page filter after night one is not lost on me. You are contributing now however. If you want to pursue me further you need to post a case stating more than I haven’t done anything other than X. X is more than I see most people doing. Make a case or focus your efforts elsewhere please. | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
@Zare and Shz This is not a town read of petty scale. I will defend this read, and I want people to know that it is pointless attacking Omni while I am around. I am not someone known for my confidence in my reads, this one I am dead certain of. There is no way that Omni would throw away three compromised town games in order to appear town to someone that he did not know would be in the game. Meta-reads in newbies are generally garbage, but this has mitigating circumstances. I don’t care if you decide not to treat him as confirmed town, I just don’t want anyone wasting their time attacking him. @Zebezt in response to this quote: Did ANYONE think bringaniga was useful the way he was playing? I dont think so. I did. He was trying to foster a town atmosphere by asking people to contribute. Granted, his trolling persona was inexcusable, but he was still doing more for town than 70% of players in the game at that time. @Mocsta I know you’ve come under fire from a lot of vets outside the game for your controlling methods (I also criticised you). At this moment in time, I think the energy you give town is invaluable, so please stop being so damn defensive about every upstart resistance and contribute the best way you know how. Up until now you’ve been so involved in positive self-evaluation and crushing dissenters that you are derailing town and filling the thread with whiny victimised bullshit. While I do have a meta-read on the causal reasons for your butthurtedness, that shit can just as easily be used as a cover for scumming the thread up deliberately. @Sn0 For those curious, I quite simply ignored the mafia game except for 5 mins to read the latest page and toss in my vote. I wasn't "lurking" or "couldn't take the heat". I'm happy to answer direct questions you may have. WTFWTF Want a direct question? What the fuck is this? Am I interpreting this correctly? You just casually ignore the game with no excuse, not because you are lurking but because you DGAF? You’re off my day two LAL list, but you better be able to explain this or you’re a candidate for day three. @Trotske Have you not heard? I am a pretty big deal. LAL is what I live and breathe day 1&2, but I understand your point that my contributions on other fronts have been limited. It may or may not be due to HAVING STARTED 50 HOURS AFTER EVERYONE ELSE. I am aware that I did ask you to contribute and that by going Ad-Hom I would be an enormous hypocrite. That you ask for contribution from someone who has been losing sleep catching up on the thread while you are sitting on a two-page filter after night one is not lost on me. You are contributing now however. If you want to pursue me further you need to post a case stating more than I haven’t done anything other than X. X is more than I see most people doing. Make a case or focus your efforts elsewhere please. | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
I have some opinions on your case on Zarepath, but I'll allow him to answer for himself before I post. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On January 15 2013 13:03 Spaghetticus wrote: @Mocsta I know you’ve come under fire from a lot of vets outside the game for your controlling methods (I also criticised you). At this moment in time, I think the energy you give town is invaluable, so please stop being so damn defensive about every upstart resistance and contribute the best way you know how. Up until now you’ve been so involved in positive self-evaluation and crushing dissenters that you are derailing town and filling the thread with whiny victimised bullshit. While I do have a meta-read on the causal reasons for your butthurtedness, that shit can just as easily be used as a cover for scumming the thread up deliberately. [Let me clear my system] Go fuck yourself.. (thats for you antagonizing me constantly in Newbie 34 I have spent the whole Night1 under the gun, and explaining my actions. And you come into the thread and say im scumming the thread up.. + Show Spoiler + Go fuck yourself (thats for antagonizing me now in Newbie 35) [System cleared] Now that I have had my vent and can think rationally. Yes.. several people this game are saying im being too reactive. I think its easy to see though that Oatsmaster pushed my buttons and perhaps that is the explanation for my defensive tone recently. I recognise that numerous people have said im trying to be mayor; so I will take a step back. I still think however: We need to move on, from Day1/Night1 consolidate and focus on the scum hunt. I have poised a series of character analysis to zarepath and am awaiting his feedback. In the meantime, I am going to take a step back from trying to lead discussion, I hope this will give others the incentive to step up and contribute more. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On January 15 2013 13:03 Spaghetticus wrote: @Sn0 Want a direct question? What the fuck is this? Am I interpreting this correctly? You just casually ignore the game with no excuse, not because you are lurking but because you DGAF? You’re off my day two LAL list, but you better be able to explain this or you’re a candidate for day three. It was the weekend. I was ignoring mafia on the weekend. Essentially, we started at around the worst possible time, since I had nothing invested in the game to make me pay attention all weekend. Now that the game has started, I expect to be present every day, including weekends. | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
How does At this moment in time, I think the energy you give town is invaluable, so please stop being so damn defensive about every upstart resistance and contribute the best way you know how elicit a response like In the meantime, I am going to take a step back from trying to lead discussion, I hope this will give others the incentive to step up and contribute more. I want you to be active, but cut the crap. Are you so certain that the entirety of your contribution is crap that in order to cut said crap you must stop posting? I want you there on day three because you are active, and if you are scum you will slip as a result. If you downgrade your activity I will shit on you for motivated lurking. It is clear that I want you to stop wasting time being a victim, and I am not the only person with these thoughts. You are not responsible for other people lurking, but you are responsible for hiding their posts with tirades of self-pitying crap. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
Did you want to share your thoughts on my questions of his character? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391615¤tpage=32#622 | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
See that you do. That was one of the single worst explanations for lurking I've ever seen. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
All the same, and while I'm hoping this isn't the case, I could totally see Omni and Spag being a scum team (who knows who the last one is). Nobody in town is trusted, motivated or skilled enough to get them both lynched by game end. It simply won't happen so if it is them then I'm pretty sure we lose. I'm curious to see what zarepath has to say, not because Mocsta has a decent case but because I have some other suspicions. I'll have to reread too many filters in light of the NK. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On January 15 2013 13:50 Sn0_Man wrote: @Mocsta Spag is dead right about your contributions and approach to the game and if you can't see that then you will never progress past the same mafia player that lost NMM 34, almost single-handedly the way I read the game. All the same, and while I'm hoping this isn't the case, I could totally see Omni and Spag being a scum team (who knows who the last one is). Nobody in town is trusted, motivated or skilled enough to get them both lynched by game end. It simply won't happen so if it is them then I'm pretty sure we lose. I'm curious to see what zarepath has to say, not because Mocsta has a decent case but because I have some other suspicions. I'll have to reread too many filters in light of the NK. To clarify, I'll have to reread too many filters to post any serious accusations now Kinda left out the important part. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On January 15 2013 13:45 Spaghetticus wrote: @Sn0 See that you do. That was one of the single worst explanations for lurking I've ever seen. TBH I'd have been substantially more excited/involved if I had a more interesting role. As scum I'd have been dead certain to keep up appearances regarding activity etc. And I'd have been a lot more amicable to the loudest voice in the room at the time. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On January 15 2013 13:43 Spaghetticus wrote: WTF RLY? How does elicit a response like I want you to be active, but cut the crap. Are you so certain that the entirety of your contribution is crap that in order to cut said crap you must stop posting? I want you there on day three because you are active, and if you are scum you will slip as a result. If you downgrade your activity I will shit on you for motivated lurking. It is clear that I want you to stop wasting time being a victim, and I am not the only person with these thoughts. You are not responsible for other people lurking, but you are responsible for hiding their posts with tirades of self-pitying crap. Look.. I am still going to be active.. its just more so.. im going to contribute my providing cases and questioning my leads (as I have done with zarepath). I am going to step away from prompting others to lead the discussion, because, enough people have voiced they don't like my methods. I said I wanted a positive town environment, and if people dont believe in the way I lead, i need to step back and re-focus on other ways to contribute to town. To me the best thing I can do now is follow my leads and pressure my targets. - as I suggested in the previous post. | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
Feel free to suspect me, but please stop looking to solve the game in one glorious glance of insight before a single red-flip. Such a feat speaks more of phenomenal luck than talent, and the pursuit of such an objective inhibits useful scum-hunting methods and clogs up the thread. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On January 15 2013 13:44 Mocsta wrote: Sn0_man.. since you are here; and zarepath isnt. Did you want to share your thoughts on my questions of his character? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391615¤tpage=32#622 On January 15 2013 13:50 Sn0_Man wrote: I'm curious to see what zarepath has to say, not because Mocsta has a decent case but because I have some other suspicions. I'll have to reread too many filters in light of the NK. Are you planning to share your thoughts on my case for zarepath? or by saying it was decent.. that is the extend of your share? | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
That sounds more reasonable. I apologise for over-reacting. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On January 15 2013 13:51 Sn0_Man wrote: To clarify, I'll have to reread too many filters to post any serious accusations now Kinda left out the important part. You still left out the important part Sn0_Man.. if your not going to post serious accusations NOW. WHEN will you? Thats the important part. | ||
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