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Good morning all.
I havent read all of the posts yet but it seems poor Mand got lynched.
No idea how that suddenly happened, because as I went to bed I don't think there was that many people voting for him.
Also suddenly some people are questioning my scumminess. Interesting stuff. I'll read the allegations in detail later as I have to go to work now.
On January 14 2013 12:45 Acid~ wrote:
So far, Sn0_Man hasn't done -anything- at all, really. I don't know about confirmation bias and I have no read on Oastmaster either way, but read Zebezt's filter again: he didn't share scum reads, he repeated/paraphrased someone else's read.
Sn0 has done very little indeed, and what he did was scummy. Seems enough for a vote for me.
I agree I haven't shared many scumreads so far. Guess why? This was the first day. There is not much to go on with most people being as lurky as they are.
I'm not the kind of player who accuses people left and right and sees what happens.
My case against sn0 i developed on my own. There was no repeating there.
I was one of the first people to speak out against bringaniga (not sure if the first).
I didnt add any extra allegations on Oats, I did add my insight though that sticking his neck out like he did, did not seem super scummy to me.
I shall be back later, maybe I have time to post during lunch and address other questions.
If I were you guys I would be more interested how this sudden vote train on Mand happened.
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One more before work:
On January 14 2013 08:30 Oatsmaster wrote:Zebezt,
You did seem to be stuck on Oats a little too long. You gave that up though which I think is a good sign.
Going to be voting either sn0 or oats I think.
Why when Mocsta stopped pressuring me you said its good, but still want to vote me without even directly interacting with me? Dont you want to pressure your scum reads until you are confident? It doesnt look like you are very confident to me. Show nested quote +
1: Sn0_man was the first one to attack mocsta in a way that would lead to a bad town atmosphere.
Nice sheeping mocsta. So it seems bringaniga is in fact kushm4sta, someone that has played MANY mafia games and therefore not really a newbie anymore. modkill?
This says to me that you are actually either relatively experienced or the scum qt is talking about it. I was totally confused before thrawn posted the host message.
It's true I wasn't very confident in my scum read on you. I specifically said that earlier too. It seems you were under enough pressure at the time, so I didnt feel like I needed to add more.
I don't know what sheeping is... I assume it's not the same as a polymorph?
If you mean following him, I made a case against sn0 when most attention was still on oats.
How does my comment on kush make me experienced? Anyone with half a brain could see that kush's first post was bringaniga's style, and then bringaniga's post right after that basically confirmed they were the same person.
Then it was just a matter of checking Kush's profile to see he had played many games.
Since I disliked his playing style I hoped for a modkill instead of wasting a lynch on him. If I was scum I would have kept my mouth shut and hoped for a lynch.
I
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Hey Mocsta
I'm glad you picked apart some of the concerns about my play in your posts. You have some valid questions though, I'll try to address them.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 14 2013 16:27 Mocsta wrote: Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 15:48 Oatsmaster wrote:
(1)My point is that the long reads post is really fucking easy to make as scum and it shouldnt give him a town read on its own. Firstly, I agree some aspects of the post are easy to write. But please remember for scum it is harder to give a genuine scum read than town read. I have supported this concept from the start, and agree with it here. Zebezt isnt starting his town reads (at least from what I gathered). He shared his 2 scum reads.. and then asked others to share as well.. Again I don't see what is wrong with this? Lastly, yes, that post should not give a town read. Its about consistency of actions, and whether actions are town motivated. I think he is keeping his eyes open in a rational way. Look he refers to your style as "idiocy" and then adds that i was "confirmation biased" in regards to our discussions. I dont see that as sheeping me.. he questions you and I equally as well? Show nested quote +(2)He has no original thoughts other than stratagies to play, which again, is easy to make as scum. That one is tough, I dont think he has been the initial instigator of any scum hunting; so perhaps the original thought is lacking. But then again.. there are plenty of people who have bandwagoned; I think this makes the comment overall: null. My personal opinion on the matter is that, there can be only one instigator but original content doesnt have to stop there. Original content can be taking that information and progressing it further applying a new thought process. Did he do this.. I dont think so.. but like i said before, not many in this game actually have either.. Show nested quote +(3)I think he is scum because he doesnt actually care to find out who is scum. Didnt ask specific questions, didnt pressure people, didnt even follow up on his original list of questions. Didnt ask specific questionsThats a matter of interpretation. You are obviously a straight-to-the-point personality, not shy of a confrontation. Not everyone else is inclined that way... Considering he too thought your posts were intimidating ("unwarranted hostility"), it can be assumed with some degree of reliability he will not ask confrontational pressure questions. I think he is trying to extract information the best way he can/knows how to. So to me i lean: null Didnt pressure peopleAgain I think it is a matter of interpretation. I dont think he pressured either; but perhaps in his mind he did. I suggest you take your concerns and ask him directly...
@zebezt Do you you think the questions you addressed to Oats/Mocsta, and your two scum reads were pressuring them; do you think you asked them questions to gain specific information? etc
Didnt follow up on his original list of questions
It does appear that way..
I would give him a bit more time to post, i Dont know where he is from, bu he said goodmorning when my timestamp reads 19:59, so I assume he is sleeping now.
This one I think is valid and would definitely follow up on.
@zebezt
Zebezt, now that Day1 has transpired; please lead the discussions with your top scum read. I suggest you start by identifying an action you find scummy, and asking them why it is NOT scummy
1: My question to you was not meant pressuring I suppose. I just wanted to get more information about your playstyle.
My question to Oats was meant as pressuring. I didn't find his behaviour as scummy as Sn0's, but his sudden vote switch as soon as the pressure was off him seemed suspect to me. I'm not even sure if that question was answered yet. My question to sn0 was meant to get him to react to my scumread and get him out of hiding.
I'm not really sure how I could have added extra pressure on sn0. He wasn't reacting as it was. This seemed to work pretty well as everyone forgot about him and instead focussed on the people who did post.
I did try to pressure bringa to change his playstyle. I didn't really have a scumread on him, just thought his playstyle was contributing.
2: My scumread
I still find sn0 highly suspicious.
Sn0_man: why do you think it is acceptable to vote without stating a reason?
Sn0_man[/b]: How is ignoring a scumread on yourself not scummy?
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ugh, missed a [b]
anyway...
I find Oats more and more suspicious too. At first I thought he was just a lumbering fingerpointer, but I read some of his posts in another mafia game where he was town and he seemed much less aggressive there. (didnt have time to read through the whole thing though)
Question to Oats Why did you change your playstyle from your previous game if you won there as town?
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Nice sidestep to avoid my question.
I don't find it necessary to share my townreads, since scum can benefit from those.
For the rest I don't have any scumreads yet that I consider strong enough to pursue.
Laguerte seems suspicious with his no lynch vote. I will look more into him later.
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Bah, didnt see your other post.
I meant the chrono one.
What is the basis of this sudden confidence?
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On January 15 2013 01:20 Spaghetticus wrote:
I am voting someone from Zebezt down. So one of:
Sweet! I'm the new Grubby line :D
PS: don't worry I'll post more later.
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Just because Laguerta is benched right now doesnt mean he isnt scum and that we shouldnt vote for whoever replaces him. His weird voting still is pretty scummy.
Seeing how Oats actually voted for so many different people.. I dont know if that is actually scummy. If I were scum I wouldnt wanna antagonize so many people and just wait until I could bandwagon one or two players.
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On January 14 2013 17:19 Oatsmaster wrote:
Since I disliked his playing style I hoped for a modkill
So you dont think that he would be useful? Losing town members is never good, so do you think Acid and Glurio should be modkilled too?
Scum want to reduce the number of townies, town wants all the townies to be useful.
Zebezt sounds like scum.
This is just sad.
First the fact that shz seems to think you are talking to him and then you reply to him as if you did actually mean him... :D
second.. your argument sucks.
Did ANYONE think bringaniga was useful the way he was playing? I dont think so.
At that point in time bringaniga was set to be lynched. If he gets modkilled he can be replaced with someone useful. How is this bad for town? Since he got modkilled and replaced we had a chance to lynch someone that actually looked scummy instead of just playing badly. Unfortunately people seemed to switch to the wrong person... still this got us more info than killing bringaniga would have most likely.
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Hey guys,
good morning.
I thought I addressed most of the questions.
I think the only complaint against me that stands up is that I could do more to pressure people. I agree on that.
I've tried to ask sn0 a question, but he just ignores it. My other top scumread with Oats gone is laguerta. He is even more lurky then sn0 though. I will do some more in depth reading tonight.
Last night I was hoping to post more, but a new years reception left me in a bad state for deep thinking.
Anywayz, if you have any questions for me, besides the fact that I don't pressure enough (I'll try to improve on that) then please let me know.
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On January 15 2013 16:00 Mocsta wrote:
(1)
Mocsta - This can be discounted. We were both pressuring each other, and he got over emotional and turned suspicion into a vote.
Nice way to discount yourself there 
I suspect his vote on me had something to do with me calling his play idiotic as well...
Anyway, Oats' death comes as a bit of a surprise to me. If I was scum I would try to get rid of the most influential townies. You fit this bill much more than Oats. The fact that you didn't get NK'ed makes you look suspicious
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On January 15 2013 16:26 Mocsta wrote:@zebeztWhy have you shifted your top scum read from an active lurky player to a modkilled (lurky) player? I know you don't like to pressure, but, this is taking things too far...What has Sn0_Man done to make you think he is not suspicious anymore? Do you think your motives for this behaviour can be read as scum motivated? P.S. Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 03:36 zebezt wrote:
With some luck there is a vigilante or SK that can kill of the lurkers for us :D
... Looks like you got your wish.
1: I'm sorry, do you mean my top scum read was bringaniga? I don't think I ever said anything like that. In fact I never said he looked scummy at all iirc. His playstyle made him unreadable and it was annoying. I merely mentioned him as someone I would vote for. This was my way of putting some extra pressure on him.
2: Sn0_Man has not done much to make him less suspicious. My original beef with him still stands and he hasnt answered my question about his behaviour. Only good thing is that he is slightly less lurky right now. He is making some soft town claims, but those don't mean much.
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Ooh I found a question from Acid I didnt answer:
Also, you're asking all of us for our reads, why? This is not a rhetorical question. Answer this.
I wanted to get some conversation going. Find out what all the lurkers are thinking. I don't see how this was a bad thing to ask for.
I really don't see any other questions I missed going through the entire thread (searched for zebezt). It's mostly just Oats saying very often that my filter is so scummy but not actually saying why most of the time. the points he did bring up against me I addressed. They were mostly quite stupid though.
Anyway, hope tonight I can spend some time filterfeeding and I'll see if I can find some better scumreads. I must admit I don't have anything good to go on yet.
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On January 15 2013 16:26 Mocsta wrote:
@zebezt
Why have you shifted your top scum read from an active lurky player to a modkilled (lurky) player?
Oh I realize you mean Laguerta.
It's not a very strong case against him. But I can't think of a reason for his replacement that would explain his weird voting behaviour.
So unlike bringaniga, who was annoying but not scummy, we should keep a close eye on whoever replaces Laguerta.
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On January 15 2013 16:40 Mocsta wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 15 2013 16:24 zebezt wrote:
If I was scum I would try to get rid of the most influential townies. You fit this bill much more than Oats. The fact that you didn't get NK'ed makes you look suspicious Influential? I have been called for my play by almost everyone in this thread (lurkers and actives). I even said today I have to take a step back. Did you not read this from my prime interrogator. On January 15 2013 15:57 shz wrote:
It's not like you weren't challenged in the last days. (1) Your are dodging others questions; people like Shz have already re-asked you the questions. I think even Mr. King of lurkers (Acid~) wasted one of his few posts to re-ask you questions. Your response: i thought I answered it all.. are you not reading the thread? (2) You then say I am influential.. as if the events of Night 1 didnt happen. Are you not reading the thread.. again? If you haven't, this is very reckless accusations to be making; something I would think only scum would be motivated to do..(3) I was RB'd.. its not clear whether town or scum.. but as noone else has stepped up to say they were RB'd. I am going to assume for the time being it was scum. (4) The difference between you & (Shz/Myself) is.. we were considering different options for why Oats was killed. You however just assume.. if I would do it.. scum would do it.... WHOAH wait a sec.. if you were scum then of course you could speak with confidence like that. This is a huge concern to me. Please explain how this is town motivated thing to say?
I just have a thing against bad logic. Even when the bad logic suits me. (like earlier when I said Oats voting for many people did not look scummy to me)
You pleaded yourself free too easily.
I was just pointing out to others that there are ways the kill could make you look scummy. I don't think that I would have pointed this out if I were scum. You have defended me before and I wouldn't want to antagonize you. The fact that Oats died does not make very strong scum case against you on it's own and there isn't that much scumminess in the rest of your posts that I've seen so far that I could build a case on.
I don't see what you being roleblocked has anything to do with this? It does not prove you are town in the slightest. Another example of bad logic.
I'm not saying you are the only influential person in this game, or that you call all the shots, but you definately have alot of influence.
Your last bit doesn't make any sense to me at all. Are you saying because I can imagina what I would do if I was scum that means I am scum?
You were coming up with reasons for Oats's death. I was giving a possible reason for it. This seems townmotivated to me. I'm not saying it's the only reason that makes sense.
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On January 15 2013 14:51 shz wrote:Any ETA on that? I get it, you don't want to ignore benched players. So, why do you think laguerta is more scummy than some of the more active / not-benched players? Care to elaborate instead of citing his weird voting pattern (which is weird, but that can't be all, or?). What are your thoughts on Trot? Do you think he is scum? And why / why not?
Sorry, missed this too.
I was not at my best last night.
Laguerta's "no vote" when he said that he was against those is more than a little weird imo. He didnt post much else so there is hardly a thing to go on.
I'll look into Trot tonight.
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Bleh.. Forgot I had to go out tonight.
Good thing I already answered most questions..
My thoughts on Trotske before I go:
I don't see many quality posts by him. At first he seems to like me (yay) later he changes his mind and puts a FoS on me stating I don't contribute that much. Weird turnaround, but not too scummy. He doesnt like Spag either saying Spag is only about finding lurkers. Seems a bit unfair since Spag has said this is mostly for the first days.
besides that he hasnt said anything much at all. Many 1 line posts. Not a big contributor for sure.
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On January 16 2013 05:39 Trotske wrote:
Why are you trying to discredit me? because I put a FoS on you?
Your post is like the definition of ad-homiem.
This post was the definition of an answer to a question asked to me by shz.
Not related to your FoS.
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I gotta work now. Hopefully tonight I will have time to post (should be able to).
I'm aware I have not made any big contributions scum hunting lately.
Tonight I'm planning to do some scumhunting and post my findings. Most likely not gonna waste too much time defending myself tonight. I feel I answered most of the questions. I don't think there is anything particulary scummy about my filter.
I might have done better posting scumreads. I will try to do that tonight.
Some questions before i go:
@Spaghetticus: You were the most active player during your last game. You seem to post significantly less now. Why the change of playstyle?
@Mocsta: I was thinking about what you said earlier
(3) I was RB'd.. its not clear whether town or scum.. but as noone else has stepped up to say they were RB'd. I am going to assume for the time being it was scum.
Why would you go out of your way to make yourself seem town'ish with such a terrible reason? I think only scum would try to do that.
The fact that you CLAIM to be RB'ed is no confirmation in any way that you are town. There might not even be a roleblocker at all in this game.
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On January 16 2013 21:01 Spaghetticus wrote:
I appreciate the etiquette, but you need to drop the kiddie gloves and come out swinging bare knuckle. While shit slinging can be detrimental if it outlives it's usefulness, being too nice makes everyone think you are manipulative. Most people have ingrained heuristics to target nice people, and for a very good reason. In XXXIII I was the nice guy who just wanted town to get along and work together. I was lynched day one, and have since reverted to the asshole internet persona you see before you. I regret that being nice seems to hurt town, but if you wanna play mafia you just need to accept it and move on.
Thanks for the tips 
I'll try to keep your advice in mind. It doesn't match well with my normal character, but I guess if I wanna play this game to win, I will have to adapt.
I find it hard to attack people on subjective things like how much somebody contributed. I will see if I can come up with something tonight though. I will have to figure out who to vote for anyway. Right now I really don't have a clue.
anyway, taking your advice to heart:
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EPT
