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On January 14 2013 17:22 Oatsmaster wrote:
Why is Sno voting Mocsta a 'Lol, wtf' moment? He looked like Sno's top scumread before he disappeared.
What the fuck? Are you just that ignorant? I explained it to you, and I gladly will quote myself.
On January 14 2013 17:14 shz wrote:
This post was a shock, as I was on my way to bed thinking Sno lost interesting and is getting modkilled anyway, then he just votes withouth ANY contribution. This was a "Lol, wtf" moment. He later did actually post, but by that time I was in bed.
On January 14 2013 17:22 Oatsmaster wrote:
Still not explaining why you felt the need to mention both together.
What?
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While you are accusuing me of not answering properly, you don't answer mine questions at all.
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Not sure why this is about bring now, but whatever.
Yes I wanted him dead or stop trolling. Trolling is bad. Bad for town. Bad for this game. He got killed and that is a good thing. Whether he was town or not, that was dumb and annoying and frustrating.
Mabye I misunderstood, but didn't you say that you can learn something from the vote-switching? Why do you need more input for that?
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On January 14 2013 17:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ok Shz.
Why did you feel the need to mention that I was improving?
Because you were under fire for playing, at least in my opinion, bad and you did improve as in stopped playing aggressivly without contributing in at least showing interest in contributing.
How is mentioning your improvement a problem? I don't get that. If I were scum, why should I try to give you more town-cred when you aren't scum?
I don't get it.
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On January 14 2013 17:31 Mocsta wrote:
(1) "Was this the bus you were waiting for"
No. My mindset was firm on La Guerta due to lying.. not being my top scum read.
If memory serves me right you went to bed and werent available during the last 1 hr.
So I appreciate that you have a fresh perspective on this, but you weren't in the moment.
When OmniEulogy unvoted, and then Oatsmaster unvoted they raised raised good points. The lynch for La Guerta was uncontested. Others started to share this opinion and were considering his play as just bad town.
And with that, the vote became contested.
On January 14 2013 17:31 Mocsta wrote:
Yeah my vote went in last minute.. but why dont you check my post timestamps.. i literally had just got off a post from Acid; its not like I was sitting there ready to post last minute. [As an aside.. I even refer to my confused state of mind with the whole situation when I addressed Acid in the spoilered post]
There is no doubt [only now].. i was wrong about Mandalor, but I built what I consider to be a good and reasoned case on him. And his reactions were indeed over emotional. He admitted it himself.
So you were distracted and confused, and because of that the post you quoted before voting for Mandalor convinced you? You made the case beforehand, but still voted for laguerta.
On January 14 2013 17:31 Mocsta wrote:
As for the victim card.. i dont know what you are talking about, and dont see how your 2 quotes elucidate that?
I am putting myself out there to be questioned.. Who else has done that? I am standing by open and transparent play.. when am I claiming to be the victim? If anything, I am trying to answer your concerns so we can move on and scum hunt. What happened, has happened; did you question my case i built on mandalor? I cant remember you doing so.
You are constantly leaving outs and "invite" people to critize you. This could be town who wants transparency, this could also be scum who wants to play it safe for everything he does. If you constantly invite people to correct you, you will never be held accountable, because you said it yourself that you think you could be wrong.
If you are the victim, you can't be the perpetrator. If you can't be the perpetrator you are town.
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I'm trying to find out why there was any chaos in the first place. And If you thought Mandalor was the better lynch, you could have just voted for him earlier. This last-minute switch was confusing at best.
Anway, I'm eager to hear more.
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What is my agenda? I want to find out what happened. And you still have no explanation for changing it last-minute. Nothing new came to the surface about Manda. And accusing me of tunneling is als victimizing yourself. You also ask people specific questions. I want to understand your vote. It's not like I'm not gonna look at others, but at the moment I'm asking you.
Why did you change it 1 min before lynch instead of 20 mins before, 2h before? If he was your top scum-read.
Of course I'm gonna interpret quotes, this is what all this is about.
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Because I rather start one-by-one. I will get to Oats later. We still have more than 24h to go. And you are here.
I'm still not satisfied with your answer, but this leads to nowhere anyway. You could have voted for him even hours before, if you were so sure. But whatever.
Off to the next one.
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On January 14 2013 12:56 OmniEulogy wrote:
##Vote: Oatsmaster
I don't like the constant vote jumping. Or pulling off Laguerta after jumping around so much. It makes me think you know who the townies are and have been testing to see which wagon sticks. That confidence in nailing Zebezt is bothering me too... I'm biased with my thinking past thing point. Don't wanna screw with anybody else I'll explain it after the lynch.
I hope we can still expect your explanation?
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Oats:
Could you explain why Manda got a pass from you in the D1 lynch?
Any news on what you have learned from the lynch yet?
What is your current stance on Zare and Laguerta? You voted both at some point.
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On January 14 2013 23:53 Mocsta wrote:
after all.. you made a conscious decision not to be involved around lynch time.
Do you want to imply something with that?
On January 14 2013 23:53 Mocsta wrote:
Shz
Seriously.. you need to start reading what Im saying...( im not asking you to stop questioning Oats.)
but I did not ask you to question him (as you implied above).. The quote I chose to elucidate was a reference to the chaos in the thread at the time. Oats reaction in context with his personality this game I think is a very good indicator of the disarray all the active participants felt.
And I'm still standing by what I said, how is the chaos an explanation to switch from your firmly taken stance of lynching laguerta for lying to your "number one" scum-read minutes before the lynch? Again, nothing new came to the surface in terms of Mandalor, other than that your vote pushed him over the edge, in that period of chaos.
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On January 15 2013 00:09 Oatsmaster wrote:
What do you think about how the lynch went down?
I'm still figuring out what the fuck that was. Was the chaos just scared and confused townies, or was it a organized bus to help out laguerta? Or both?
I think Spag hit in on the head with that:
On January 15 2013 00:06 Spaghetticus wrote:+ Show Spoiler +@OmniEulogy and to a lesser extent Zarepath
Omni you seem to have taken something on board from my defense of Corazon in XXXIII, and Zare you seem to be sheeping the sentiment.
(1) - On day one there was no resistance to a lynch on Laguerta.
(2) - If Laguerta were scum, his scum buddies would be worried and try and make another bandwagon
(C) - Laguerta is not scum.
This mirrors my argument in defense of Corazon precisely, though this may not have been causal. I was wrong in making that argument because Corazon was scum and he was being bussed day one. I wasn't incorrect in thinking that at this skill level people are too thick to bus day one, but I did make a massive error which my good friend DP (he is actually my friend in RL and the reason I started play mafia, he is not my good friend because he coaches scum) was so nice as to point out. DP told me:
"I was coaching scum and told them to bus Corazon"
You see how my theorycrafting failed to take into account that there was a certain level of organisation created by a scum coach being an active participant in both the scum QT, and exerting control via personal messages? If a scum is being bandwagoned hardcore day one, the coach will tell the other scum to let natural selection take its course. I am not going to make a case or vote yet, as I have only read up to [22], but I don't want you thinking for a second that just because Laguerta had seven votes that he is not scum.
This is what I meant with:
On January 14 2013 16:55 shz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 14 2013 12:30 OmniEulogy wrote:
In fact, it was mentioned earlier... not enough of a fight from mafia to keep Laguerta in the game... the fact that the only two votes that aren't on him are on two different people makes me highly doubt they are both mafia either... guys I think we fucked this up
##Unvote And 1,5h later, laguerta is not dead, but Mandalor, the vanilla town. Was this the bus you were waiting for?
I'm not sure yet, but I'm trying to figure it out.
On January 15 2013 00:09 Oatsmaster wrote:
Laguerta hasnt posted since the 'no-lynch', I still think he is town.
Zare, needs to follow up on this
So you are not confident atm in anyone, but you still suspect those two? Anyone else?
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Oh before I forget:
On January 14 2013 12:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
MOCSTA ARE YOU SURE THAT LAGUARTA IS SCUM?
What exactly was the meaning behind that? Like, what did you hope to achieve with that post?
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Spag, you are confirming Omni based on a meta-read? In a newbie game? I don't think that is very clever.
@Sno, since laguerta is on the bench for now, who would you vote for?
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On January 15 2013 03:32 zebezt wrote:
PS: don't worry I'll post more later.
Any ETA on that?
I get it, you don't want to ignore benched players. So, why do you think laguerta is more scummy than some of the more active / not-benched players? Care to elaborate instead of citing his weird voting pattern (which is weird, but that can't be all, or?).
What are your thoughts on Trot? Do you think he is scum? And why / why not?
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On January 15 2013 13:03 Spaghetticus wrote:
@Zare and Shz
This is not a town read of petty scale. I will defend this read, and I want people to know that it is pointless attacking Omni while I am around. I am not someone known for my confidence in my reads, this one I am dead certain of. There is no way that Omni would throw away three compromised town games in order to appear town to someone that he did not know would be in the game. Meta-reads in newbies are generally garbage, but this has mitigating circumstances. I don’t care if you decide not to treat him as confirmed town, I just don’t want anyone wasting their time attacking him.
On January 15 2013 14:02 Spaghetticus wrote:
...Scum teams are never so bold as to confirm each other town off meta-reads. It's not worth it when you do the risk-reward maths. Even with people like me going and telling you that scum would not do it, it's still not worth it for scum to do it.
Feel free to suspect me, but please stop looking to solve the game in one glorious glance of insight before a single red-flip. Such a feat speaks more of phenomenal luck than talent, and the pursuit of such an objective inhibits useful scum-hunting methods and clogs up the thread.
You agree with all arguments against such a play, and you still do it. We should ignore that, ignore Omni, and just move on without any questions asked? Why? Because you are Mr. Mafia? Way to jerk-off to your own ego.
But whatever, there are better targets out there atm, but I hope you get bored jerking-off soon.
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On January 15 2013 03:40 zebezt wrote:
Seeing how Oats actually voted for so many different people.. I dont know if that is actually scummy. If I were scum I wouldnt wanna antagonize so many people and just wait until I could bandwagon one or two players.
At the moment you are going down the path you described as scummy. You have like one scum-read (Sno) but didn't follow it up, instead the last posts were either fluff, false-promisies, and asking to not ignoe benched players.
If you are not sure where to start, you can always do a complete collection of comments to each of the living players. If not, just ask away and we will find things for you to give your opinion on.
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The town-road on Oats could also be town-motivated.
But for the rest, I think you are onto something there, and he really needs to actually contribute instead of posting without anything that helps, let it be pressure or laying down cases.
I would also like for him to explain why he hasn't done much helpful while being present and reading everything.
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On January 15 2013 15:17 Mocsta wrote:@ShzSince you are one of the few who is actively trying to fit the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle together. What do you make of this action? Personally I thought I would be higher chance for the NK than RB, so I don't know what to make of it.
Of course you would see yourself NK'ed, but we had that topic already.
It's hard for scum and town to actually draw many conclusions of which player has which role, other than basic alignment. So I think that it is totally possible to just RB an active player. If scum saw Oats as a better NK, they could just RB their second priority.
I think the much better question is, why Oats was NK'ed?
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This of course means, that Oats was NK'ed by mafia, but for now we should work with the reasoning that Oats Vigi'ed glurio, and scum NK'ed Oats.
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EPT
