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I'm pretty sure it's all wrong.
##Unvote: Hapahauli
##Vote: Yamato
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On January 07 2013 03:12 MrZentor wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's all wrong.
##Unvote: Hapahauli
##Vote: Yamato
haha, what exactly changed your mind?
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Mornin' folks. Catching up
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@ Z-Bo
Regarding MrZ, I looked into his meta when I was playing with him in Witchcraft. He's always fairly trolly, but there's such a huge difference in activity level between his scum and town metas. He's much more scared to post as scum, and to a noticeable extreme at that.
He's someone I'm not considering for lynching today.
However, there are definitely things that are "off" about his game-play this game. For example, he seems to not give much of a shit about who gets lynched as long as someone dies. Even in Witchcraft Mini, he seemed to care more about lynch decisions. While I would find this horrendously scummy for other players, this is well within the bounds of what town MrZ would do. It's also Day 1 in an instant-lynch game, so I feel his pain in a way.
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Hey guys, how are things going in the land of the British Empire? Catching up just like Hapa is apparently.
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On January 07 2013 03:47 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Z-Bo
Regarding MrZ, I looked into his meta when I was playing with him in Witchcraft. He's always fairly trolly, but there's such a huge difference in activity level between his scum and town metas. He's much more scared to post as scum, and to a noticeable extreme at that.
He's someone I'm not considering for lynching today.
However, there are definitely things that are "off" about his game-play this game. For example, he seems to not give much of a shit about who gets lynched as long as someone dies. Even in Witchcraft Mini, he seemed to care more about lynch decisions. While I would find this horrendously scummy for other players, this is well within the bounds of what town MrZ would do. It's also Day 1 in an instant-lynch game, so I feel his pain in a way.
I see. And what do you make of the Xatalos/ShiaoPi exchange?
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Oh, and I agree about mr.Z, for now. Right now I want to be lynching into Xatalos/yamato, but I'd like to hear what they have to say first.
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On January 06 2013 15:42 Z-BosoN wrote:@Mr.CCShow nested quote +On January 06 2013 09:39 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 06 2013 09:34 Hapahauli wrote:
Btw CC, you mind building a case on Xatalos? He may be indecisive, but I don't see how it's scummy. Tbh I think everyone was overstating my read on Xatalos. My original "case" was just a read post with vote pressure and it kind of got blown out of proportion both by myself and others. Allow me to rationalize why his indecision struck me so: Oats as scum in XXXII. I caught him flip flopping his read on Yamato so hard and lynch him for it. Xatalos did the same thing by contradicting himself within the frame of ~20mins with only 1 post from you inbetween. I'm starting to realize the two situations are different (as scum are more refined in these non-newbie games). But my concern stands that he's only really done that the entire game so far; saying he could be scum because this, but it could also be town. My experience with such play has been that it is scum.Tell me: Is it different? Can you please elaborate on the bolded? Yamato is a newbie, whether he's in a newbie game or not. Why would "flip-flopping" be a characteristic of a more refined scum play?
Uhhh Z-bo I'm not even talking about Yamato in this passsage. I'm talking about Oats as scum in a previous game, and how his actions match that of Xatalos. The bolded statement is essentially stating that the two situations are somewhat different (Xatalos being more refined because Oats was very blatant about it), but my experience has led me to believe that what Xatalos is doing is scum play.
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On January 07 2013 03:58 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 15:42 Z-BosoN wrote:@Mr.CCOn January 06 2013 09:39 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 06 2013 09:34 Hapahauli wrote:
Btw CC, you mind building a case on Xatalos? He may be indecisive, but I don't see how it's scummy. Tbh I think everyone was overstating my read on Xatalos. My original "case" was just a read post with vote pressure and it kind of got blown out of proportion both by myself and others. Allow me to rationalize why his indecision struck me so: Oats as scum in XXXII. I caught him flip flopping his read on Yamato so hard and lynch him for it. Xatalos did the same thing by contradicting himself within the frame of ~20mins with only 1 post from you inbetween. I'm starting to realize the two situations are different (as scum are more refined in these non-newbie games). But my concern stands that he's only really done that the entire game so far; saying he could be scum because this, but it could also be town. My experience with such play has been that it is scum.Tell me: Is it different? Can you please elaborate on the bolded? Yamato is a newbie, whether he's in a newbie game or not. Why would "flip-flopping" be a characteristic of a more refined scum play? Uhhh Z-bo I'm not even talking about Yamato in this passsage. I'm talking about Oats as scum in a previous game, and how his actions match that of Xatalos. The bolded statement is essentially stating that the two situations are somewhat different (Xatalos being more refined because Oats was very blatant about it), but my experience has led me to believe that what Xatalos is doing is scum play.
I have no idea why I wrote Yamato >.<
Anyways, so you are saying that he is doing the same thing as Oats, but he's just more avid about justifying them?
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
Vote Count
MrZentor (1): Mr. Cheesecake
Mr. Cheesecake (1): Yamato77, jaybrundage
ShiaoPi (1): jaybrundage, Xatalos
Xatalos (1): Mr.Cheesecake, ShiaoPi
yamato77 (1): MrZentor
Hapahauli (0): Yamato77, MrZentor
Z-Boson (0): ShiaoPi, DarthPunk
jaybrundage (0): DarthPunk
DarthPunk (0): Hapahauli
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Not Voting (4): Z-Boson, Hapahauli, ShiaoPi, Yamato77
5 votes are required to lynch.
Please let me know if I get the votecount wrong. The way I'm doing them gives more info but is cluttered, I might mess up now and again.
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On January 07 2013 04:03 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 03:58 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 06 2013 15:42 Z-BosoN wrote:@Mr.CCOn January 06 2013 09:39 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 06 2013 09:34 Hapahauli wrote:
Btw CC, you mind building a case on Xatalos? He may be indecisive, but I don't see how it's scummy. Tbh I think everyone was overstating my read on Xatalos. My original "case" was just a read post with vote pressure and it kind of got blown out of proportion both by myself and others. Allow me to rationalize why his indecision struck me so: Oats as scum in XXXII. I caught him flip flopping his read on Yamato so hard and lynch him for it. Xatalos did the same thing by contradicting himself within the frame of ~20mins with only 1 post from you inbetween. I'm starting to realize the two situations are different (as scum are more refined in these non-newbie games). But my concern stands that he's only really done that the entire game so far; saying he could be scum because this, but it could also be town. My experience with such play has been that it is scum.Tell me: Is it different? Can you please elaborate on the bolded? Yamato is a newbie, whether he's in a newbie game or not. Why would "flip-flopping" be a characteristic of a more refined scum play? Uhhh Z-bo I'm not even talking about Yamato in this passsage. I'm talking about Oats as scum in a previous game, and how his actions match that of Xatalos. The bolded statement is essentially stating that the two situations are somewhat different (Xatalos being more refined because Oats was very blatant about it), but my experience has led me to believe that what Xatalos is doing is scum play. I have no idea why I wrote Yamato >.< Anyways, so you are saying that he is doing the same thing as Oats, but he's just more avid about justifying them?
More discreet and well-thought out imo. Oats was just like "I'm not sure ababout Yamato, but I'm leaning scum on him" 20 mins later "I'm not sure about Yamato, but I'm leaning town on him". Xatalos has just floundered around the majority of the game and been super non-committal with reads up until recently. The stuff I quoted in my original post was alarming to me because of how quickly he changed his mind, and how there was only a single post from Hapa (a small one) that triggered his switch.
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On January 07 2013 03:06 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 02:39 Xatalos wrote:On January 07 2013 02:06 Z-BosoN wrote:Xatalos, looking at your filter, I cannot understand what on Earth is your stance on CC and mrZentor. Regarding CC: On January 07 2013 00:52 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 21:27 ShiaoPi wrote:On January 06 2013 20:05 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:41 ShiaoPi wrote:On January 06 2013 19:36 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am voting you now because:
-flip flopping on DP in some logical inconsistencies earlier
-not committing at all earlier
-writing a terribly bad case for the sake of writing one to get some pressure off yourself.
call it OMGUS if you want, I don't think so.
Also you have been on my hitlist now, Zentor is not around so I cannot ask him stuff right now, I just asked yamato a bunch of stuff earlier. Leaving you and with that crap contribution you look like the best option for today's lynch When was I under pressure...? I've just been trying find someone scummier than Mr. Cheesecake, but it's not an easy job, considering the relatively low activity and the high amount of townish/nullish players. There are many things in your filter that strike me as suspicious (mentioned earlier), and even though they're partly intuition and not solid proof, it's better than Mr. Cheesecake in my eyes (he started off under the radar but has had some engagement since then). Several people have mentioned you as a possible lynch candidate that qualifies as under pressure. I would really be interested in those "many things" in my filter that are suspicious, I already answered the ones you quoted earlier. Please show them to me, I don't even know where you find them. Anyway I am out for dinner now. See you later. Okay... I guess that counts as pressure, although I haven't been even remotely in a dangerous spot until now. But this always happens to me when I'm town at some point, so I'm not too worried yet. Are you saying you were really pressuring RiseAgain? I just can't see anything but a weak fake pressure in that. Merely voting for someone without any actual pressure doesn't count as pressure. Some other players in this game have thrown away weak votes as well, but at least they tried to create some pressure. You didn't even try - the opposite, you openly said it was only an empty vote beforehand. Why were you suddenly okay with lynching DP when he started to gain a bandwagon for himself? All I can see is an opportunistic (yet extremely vague) move to potentially get rid of an active player. And when the bandwagon started to crumble, you suddenly dropped him from your suspects without saying a word about it. It feels like you're just trying to get someone lynched, and it doesn't really matter who. So I am back. Where did I say I was really pressuring Rise? I clearly said it was to get him to post, since I had questions for him, that I wanted to answer. It is blatantly clear in my filter. I was not "suddenly" okay with lynching DP, stop misrepresenting facts. Mr.CC asked me who my other possible candidates were. That was after the first episode of DP/Hapa-shitfest but before the entire wagon on him started. I was active during the increasing pressure on DP, being part of it myself, before I had to leave cause of RL matters. How is it opportunistic for me to be one of the persons being there while the pressure added up, when I really thought that he might be red?? The bandwagon started to crumble because DP was doing some really townish posts, thing is I was not in the thread at that time. As soon as I was back und caught up I removed DP from my hitlist as he was much more townie now. I did not want to bloat my post with the DP matter again, when it was not part of the trending discussion in the thread, but I did "say a word" about it.... On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
-snip- I for sure care who gets lynched, seriously are you even reading this thread? I clearly stated which persons I want to lynch during varying times already. Well, you did say stuff like "I cannot even fathom how you critisize me for putting a vote on Rise as pressure when he had done jackshit at that moment". It appeared to me as if you were not actually pressuring RiseAgain but still claiming to have done so. I'm not particularly fond of claiming "townie points" for oneself without actually deserving them, it just feels scummy at worst and uncomfortable at best. Especially when the "pressure" vote is surrounded with remarks like "hey, this is just a throwaway vote, but look I'm doing something!". Ah yeah, I missed that mention about DP. It certainly makes your actions more logical. The problem I'm having is: I can't convince myself of anyone having a *high* probability of flipping red. Sadly it seems like this first lynch is going to be somewhat random at this point... That leads me to think the lynch should be someone lurky and non-beneficial to the discussion, but you've been quite active lately and your responses to my pressure don't seem scummy (except the fast and furious counter-vote after my case on you...). In addition, I don't like lynching someone who generates discussion D1, since that'll cut down the discussion and let the lurkers continue lurking. Mr. Cheesecake hasn't looked all that bad lately, so I'm contemplating yamato77. It's a bit unfair because of his busy schedule, but the fact is, he hasn't done much so far (except suspecting MrZentor, a quite easy and passive target). I'm certainly not leaning town on you or Mr. Cheesecake though. It's just that I'm having a very hard time making scumreads in this game especially compared to my newbie games. When before this, you had this to say about him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=25#486I said I was ready to vote for Mr. Cheesecake, but somehow I don't feel like it's a sufficiently justifiable lynch. He's had some townish posting lately and my read on him wasn't strong to begin with. But there's someone else I want to discuss... Which makes no sense to me. You didn't have a strong scum read on him initially, but you were ready to vote him. Now, without saying anything other than "he's posting townish lately", you want to lynch him. If he's such a conflicting read, why aren't you prodding him? Why aren't you commenting on jay's case on him? On mrZ, your very first post addresses how mrZ looks scummy. You also say this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=8#147Well, I'm not really sure how MrZentor is so easy to read... I'm having extreme difficulties reading him. And I've played with him in two games before too. It shouldn't be too hard to fake some joke posts, right? Especially with his general low activity and lack of any content. But from your filter, it is a scumread you are not pursuing at all. You've had no interactions with him that tell me you are trying to better read him more. Your stance is that you are having difficulty making reads this game or whatever. Then you make a case on ShiaoPi, weakly accusing him of a pressure vote. To me it looks like you are just following the thread trend and seeing what sticks. (CC being town, DP being scum but then being town, mrZ looking town, etc.), and I don't like it. I think my stance on MrZentor has been pretty clear. I originally had a slight scumread on him, but after some discussion with him and considering his meta, I've been leaning town on him for quite a while. I've also said that many times. Mr. Cheesecake is a tougher one to figure out for me. I really dislike his early posting, but he started being fairly active and engaged at some point. He hasn't posted for a while now though. I'm torn, and it's not helping that he hasn't been posting for quite some time. I'm contemplating a lynch of ShiaoPi or yamato77. I didn't really get a scummy feeling from my back-and-forth with ShiaoPi earlier, so yamato77 might be a better choice. He might improve his contributions after his RL issues are solved though, so it's not easy to decide. Mr. Cheesecake isn't out of the question either. What I need now is some kind of a sign or clue about who would be the right choice. Unfortunately I'm in a different timezone than most here, so not that much is happening while I'm online :/ It's difficult to keep track of your thoughts because you change your mind way too much, and often without proper reasoning. For example, from your filter I've noted that you haven't interacted with Jay much at all. He's a town read to you: Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 02:54 Xatalos wrote:
Why do you see jaybrundage as scummy? I'm not sold on that. He made some good points about ShiaoPi and offered his opinions pretty casually - I don't get the feeling he was unwilling to talk about anything. And he wants to lynch CC. If you are a townie who has difficulty reading CC, why are you not discussing him with another one of your town reads? It's much more comfortable saying "ah he was scummy but now he's townie" and not doing anything about it. Also, I'm not so sure what to make of your interaction with shiaoPi. You begin strongly by noting how he has taken little stances in this game (which is true), but you back off a bit too easily: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=26#506You thought Shiaopi's vote on DP was not a pressure vote, but now he's convinced you it was a pressure vote (in a way which I want you to be more clear about), and that also manages to refute your earlier point on Shiao not taking stances. Explain these two points to me, which are a bit hazy in logic, and why you would still lynch into Shiao despite it all.
Well... I guess it's because I tend to put all my thoughts into my posts (mostly as town, since I want to hold back more as Mafia to avoid controversy). Just look at any of my town games, they're all somewhat confusing and disorganized if you look at my filters. As Mafia I'm much more focused and almost never really suspected (lol).
jaybrundage hasn't been around a lot when I've been online, so I haven't really discussed with him. But mostly I have a good feeling about him - he seems to make sense and genuinely post his opinions. Every time I go to his filter with the mindset of him being Mafia, I come back thinking he's town. If he actually is Mafia, I applaud him.
I think you misunderstood our main argument. It was about the fake pressure on RiseAgain and the vague suspicion towards DarthPunk. I conceded the point about DarthPunk, but not the point about RiseAgain. Overall the argument made me feel a bit less suspicious about ShiaoPi.
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@ Xatalos
Two things in your filter are bugging me right now.
1) You've been going after Shaio a great deal for being non-committal. However, you yourself have been arguably more non-committal all game, to the point where you don't have a single concrete scumread at this point.
2) When you made your case against Shaio, you were actively discrediting your own case within itself:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=25#486
All of his stances are neutral and weak. Although it's a bit hypocritical since I've been hesitant as well, but when he was town in our earlier game together, he had VERY strong opinions and even hard defended a scum until he actually flipped red. When he was Mafia, he was very quiet and vague. This just feels like much more fitting his scum meta, although it's not a huge pool of evidence.
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Can we kill either yamato or Xatalos today?
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Just going to do a stream of consciousness kind of thing as I read the thread. Spoilered stuff so it doesn't take up ridiculous amounts of space.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
I am interested currently in these people:
yamato
Xatalos
MrZ
yamato:
There are many things which would probably be me reiterating stuff that was mentioned (discrepancy in behaviour as hapa said). Not being really present, throwing votes around with little reasoning. But that can be explained by his lack of time due to RL business. could really use more analysis and reasoning from him.
Xatalos:
I said earlier that Xatalos is a lynchbait. That is because he is hesitating a lot, laying out a lot of his thoughts in the thread and therefore opening himself up for harsh critique if he changes his mind and posts it. His lack of any stance is alarming though. While it is somewhat just his playstyle (IIRC) I still dislike it a lot, I mean day 1 has been going for quite a long time now already, while we did not get more information through lynching there is still a lot of content to search through and find something.
MrZ:
He is useless, which is stupidly just his meta with the lightheartedness he has shown. I don't like useless people but cannot condemn him based on this.
Actually I started this post with wanting to lynch into Xata/yamato preferrably yamato but now that I am writing those reads feel just unsatisfying...There is nothing really much that distinguishes one option from the other. I am reluctant to lynch yamato since he seems legitimately busy, also relcutant to lynch Xata for just playing as he does (same goes for MrZ).
Somehow this day 1 has not been really productive >_>
So what you're saying is, you don't want to lynch anyone?
+ Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 17:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I do scumhunt, just because I am not writing a case on anything that moves does not mean I am not doing it...
Boson is pretty much town in my eyes, no reason to share his spreadsheet with his thoughts lined out with us if he were scum. Also he has directly started to scumhunt as soon as he replaced in, gets lots of towniepoints from me.
CC is someone I don't want to lynch today, you may think him scummy for not making a shitton of cases but that is just a difference in playstyle imo. Looking through his filter he is actively trying to get more information out of people by asking questions promoting discussing. What I dislike is parking his vote on MrZ but that is nothing to be honest.
Who the fuck do you want to lynch??
+ Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 17:58 yamato77 wrote:
Mr Zentor
He's only given a lot of town reads and acted impatient about lynching people. His filter is full of one liners that provide little reasoning for what he wants to do this game aside from Lynch people. He seems more preoccupied with there being a lynch than who is going to be lynched. He hasn't helped town find who they should lynch, either. Hapa says he's a bored townie but he looks like a scum just waiting for an excuse to hammer a townie lynch.
Ahh something me and Yamato agree on... I hate that Mr. Z ain't doin shit this game.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 18:06 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 18:04 ShiaoPi wrote:
What makes MrZ scummier than Xatalos in your opinion? Apathy about who is lynched, less scum hunting than Xatalos, less reasoning posted than Xatalos, more trollish nature to his posting. Plus he's advocated the idea that we should limit our discussions in favor of making a decision on a lynch which is a scum favored idea. No, Yamato wtf. Advocating a shorter time limit is not scum favored -- it promotes activity because we have an artificial deadline to adhere by. 72 hours is plenty. Not a reason to lynch MrZ. On January 06 2013 18:49 yamato77 wrote:Is the only reason you want to lynch him is that he's useless? That's the only thing his meta might excuse but I think there are other parts of his play that are scummy. As I've mentioned before he's advocated the idea that we should be deciding on a lynch by now, which is in opposition to the town-favored idea Hapa put forth that we should allow more time for ourselves so that we don't end up mislynching. Indeed so far that has been good, because we haven't done anything rash or stupid just because we felt we had to decide on someone to kill. Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 09:37 MrZentor wrote:
Also, dragging days out will lead to decreased interest in the game by town, increasing inactivity, and generally making things easier for scum.
Days should be 48-72 hours. He's expressed this sentiment multiple times since this initial post in the form of troll votes and acts of impatience. He's pushing town toward making a bad decision which is something I do not think we should be doing. Only scum would want to advocate this idea. Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 07:21 MrZentor wrote:
I will use my hammer vote as soon as I possibly can.
It's unlikely that scum will want to have the final vote on somebody, because it will put them under a lot of scrutiny. This post here he looks like he's setting himself up for making the hammer vote on a player, and then calling himself town for doing it. And again he's advocating the idea that quick hammer lynches are a good thing when they only benefit scum. Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 11:23 MrZentor wrote:
There's too little information to make an accurate lynch first day; we're just wasting time by delaying it. Here he bemoans day 1 as useless and says we should lynch someone. He doesn't have any good ideas of who to lynch, nor has he helped make day 1 more useful, he just wants to kill someone. Apathy about who is lynched is a scummy trait. So basically instead of being pro-town and scum hunting, or even offering up a scum read, he's given town reads on people and told us all to lynch someone quickly. He's playing anti town.
Okay this is rediculous. Yamato I feel like you're pressuring the weakest player right now (in terms of actualy content). These are super easy points to make as scum. These aren't good reasons to lynch Mr Z at all.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 18:52 Xatalos wrote:Welcome, Z-Boson! I'm glad you're being very townish and contributive so far, which means we have one less player out of the lynching table (I didn't like lynching RiseAgain either, but this is a much easier judgement than that). Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 15:35 Z-BosoN wrote:Allright, caught up. What concerns me about Xatalos, as you can see in the spreadsheet is this post: On January 05 2013 22:20 Xatalos wrote:On January 05 2013 15:00 DarthPunk wrote:On January 05 2013 14:52 Hapahauli wrote:On January 05 2013 14:48 DarthPunk wrote:On January 05 2013 14:46 Hapahauli wrote:On January 05 2013 14:45 DarthPunk wrote:
oh and If I had to lynch now and hapa was dead. hmmm. dunno I would need to read more filters. Actually I would wait to vote until something solid comes up. Remember when you called Xatalos scummy as shit? Yeah I guess you forgot about that huh? Yeah. He is. But I am not certain. Holy fuck dude I change my mind and am unsure as a townie with no info on day one. That doesn't sound plausible at all now does it? Yeah, but how the hell did you change your mind so quickly? You just called Xatalos "scummy as shit" barely an hour ago. Then all of a sudden you're unsure again? Holy fuck. What do you not understand about this. I am town. I have no additional info. I have to figure shit out. The way I figure shit out is to have ideas and then alter these ideas with changing info or more thought applied to the problem. Whilst I was flaming with you I was thinking about Xatalos. Now the thing about Xatalos is that he is a pretty bad townie. He likes to sheep and he changes his mind. Changing your mind is a pretty bad thing to do as scum because people such as yourself for some reason view it as scummy, and as scum you don't need to change your mind. You can defend someone you know will flip town and be fully justified in doing that later when he flips. You can also tunnel people as long as they aren't your buddies, and even then you can do so. So changing his mind/sheeping was originally scummy but not with some further thought applied. His list post irks me as all lists post do in general HOWEVER re reading it actually contained decent content and seemed to fit someone trying to figure shit out. Not scummy. So. He is back to null after reevaluation and I need to figure some other shit out. Savvy? Hmm.. Posts like this are the reason why I originally viewed DP as townish. From time to time there are scummy traits in his filter (angriness, contradictions...) but then again, there are many posts where he appears to genuinely try solving the game. For example this earlier post of his: On January 05 2013 06:16 DarthPunk wrote:
I don;t like either of the 'cases' to be perfectly honest.
Rise is completely null to me. And to be honest you are the one picking a fight with rise. There should be one read due to Rises' aggression and that is null. I thought that you were simply following up on him in order to push the town to be active. However you trying to drum up support for a bandwagon based of something that any player of your calibre should KNOW is a null tell is not 'potentially scummy' it IS scummy. and it has me worried.
Since when do you call things 'potentially scummy' anyway??? sounds really fucking off to be honest.
Yeah it was a WTF post from yamato initially. But his explanation, willingness to be open and transparent, and the fact that his original WTF post turned out to be an exercise in an open thought process give me a town read on yamato at this juncture.
And once again I am wondering how the fuck a town hapa is not reaching the same conclusions as myself and is pushing the wagons of two people who are null at worst.
These well thought-out and contentful posts about several players seem like something Mafia would have a hard time doing. Not impossible, of course, but they just fit town agenda a lot better. Combined with DP's relatively high activity and the speed at which the ghost bandwagon for him gained support, I don't really feel comfortable lynching him today. There's also the point that in my experience, a town vs town flamewar is the most obvious explanation for a fight between active players. With that said, there are some things in his filter that I don't like. DP, if you're there, I want your take on the following matters. On January 05 2013 07:04 DarthPunk wrote:What was on top of my agenda was figuring out hapa as you are the scariest player in this game, and if I could get a solid town read on you we could roll these scum. Unfortunately you went retard and or are scum so now I have to deal with a hapa tunnelling me based on On January 05 2013 06:54 Hapahauli wrote:
Straight-up OMGUS and a sprinkle of gut-feeling. You scum brah. All the while I am somehow illogical despite having really solid reasoning and you just ignoring that to serve your OMGUS agenda. Well, that is cool with me HAPA. I don't have to convince you you are scum. I just have to convince the town. And that should be straightforward after this little party we have been having together. I just can't wrap my head around this post. Here's what it basically says: 1) Hapa is the best player in this game 2) He's a retard and/or scum 3) He's definitely scum Where's the coherency and logic in all this? You called me out for switching my opinions in the time of 1-2 hours, but you're switching your opinions even inside the same post... It makes me think this could all be fake reasoning, only aimed at pushing an agenda, not finding the truth. And why is it so bad for Hapa to push weak cases? What it does is create discussion and draw opinions, likely even hints to several players' alignments, and simply there almost CAN'T be any strong cases this early. So it's infinitely better to push a weak case than merely talk policy or semantics. I have a hard time seeing why this makes Hapa scum exactly? - - - Alright. I don't have any strong scumreads at the moment, but... There are two players I'm considering for today. Mr. Cheesecake- Lots of one-liners that add nothing to the thread - So far his only suspect is me, based on my uncertainty about DP... and nothing else to add to the discussion? - A reasonable amount of posts, but basically nothing of value except the (weak) case on me - Generally being quite forgettable and blending in without drawing attention at all yamato77- Voting for Mr. Cheesecake since... why? - Weird logic and reasoning... scrambling for something to back up his opinions? - Practically nothing useful in his (short) filter - Talking almost exclusively about meta/policy/semantics, nothing really meaningful related to this game His bit on DP reads to me as a biiiig over-justification. What is he trying to accomplish on DP? What is the purpose of beggining by stating why DP looks town, and then refuting it? Xatalos, I'd like you to better explain this post, so I can better understand where you are coming from. The reason I have conflicting arguments about DP's alignment is because I have conflicting feelings about him. Some posts he seems townish, some posts scummy. By the way, he still hasn't responded to any of my questions earlier... Even though he has posted a reasonable amount since then. That doesn't make me feel too good about him, but it's not like we're lynching him anyways (there are so many people who are hiding in plain sight compared to him), so I'd rather not focus on him for now. It's true that MrZentor has been quite passive and non-contributing, but he was somewhat like this in Paranoia Mafia as well (and he was town). And I got a townish feel from the discussion we had earlier in the thread. I don't feel like he's a good lynch. I said I was ready to vote for Mr. Cheesecake, but somehow I don't feel like it's a sufficiently justifiable lynch. He's had some townish posting lately and my read on him wasn't strong to begin with. But there's someone else I want to discuss... ShiaoPiThe first thing that doesn't seem right is this post: Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 12:14 ShiaoPi wrote:Hmm looks like RiseAgain has still not responded.... Anyway moving onto the matters more at hand for now. I don't think that DP or Hapa are scum, it feels much more like townies at each others throats for minor things. While I can see where both are coming from during the exchange I does kind of worry me that DP does not follow up with a vote as Hapa does. Does not seem to fit when he calls him scum more than once earlier. @Mr.CC Xatalos is kind of a lynchbait in itself. He is not that easy to read (at least for me), but what I have seen so far from him does not really convince me on his scumminess. From time to time he does these 180-turns but usually it is because he lays his entire thoughtprocess out and therefore every nook and turn of his mind is in the thread. He is nullish right now. I want to see more from RiseAgain, so ##Vote: RiseAgainget in here and do something please!  I agree with his points about Hapa/DP and myself, but then comes the weird "pressure" vote. It reminds me so much of an earlier game where one Mafia player made a similar pressure vote without ANY conviction. There's even a double (over?)justification for this vote (I want to see more from him - VOTE - do something please). It feels like just a ploy to appear scumhunting with pressure, but that pressure is so weak and apologetic that it doesn't look like he even tried to accomplish anything. It's just all too indifferent about gaining any new information and basically voting for the sake of having voted. Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 12:26 ShiaoPi wrote:
Right now I am torn between the two of jaybrundage and yamato77.
More tending towards yamato77 for his meltdown in logic as jaybrundage has done nothing, which is bad but not necessarily scum Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 12:26 ShiaoPi wrote:
EBWOP: oh and someone I would be more reluctant to lynch but could agree to is DP Just listing possible lynch candidates without much (or any in DP's case) reasoning, and putting his foot pre-emptively in a lot of bandwagons. Not advancing the thread, not scumhunting, merely agreeing to lynch several players. Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
I am interested currently in these people:
yamato
Xatalos
MrZ
yamato:
There are many things which would probably be me reiterating stuff that was mentioned (discrepancy in behaviour as hapa said). Not being really present, throwing votes around with little reasoning. But that can be explained by his lack of time due to RL business. could really use more analysis and reasoning from him.
Xatalos:
I said earlier that Xatalos is a lynchbait. That is because he is hesitating a lot, laying out a lot of his thoughts in the thread and therefore opening himself up for harsh critique if he changes his mind and posts it. His lack of any stance is alarming though. While it is somewhat just his playstyle (IIRC) I still dislike it a lot, I mean day 1 has been going for quite a long time now already, while we did not get more information through lynching there is still a lot of content to search through and find something.
MrZ:
He is useless, which is stupidly just his meta with the lightheartedness he has shown. I don't like useless people but cannot condemn him based on this.
Actually I started this post with wanting to lynch into Xata/yamato preferrably yamato but now that I am writing those reads feel just unsatisfying...There is nothing really much that distinguishes one option from the other. I am reluctant to lynch yamato since he seems legitimately busy, also relcutant to lynch Xata for just playing as he does (same goes for MrZ).
Somehow this day 1 has not been really productive >_> All of his stances are neutral and weak. Although it's a bit hypocritical since I've been hesitant as well, but when he was town in our earlier game together, he had VERY strong opinions and even hard defended a scum until he actually flipped red. When he was Mafia, he was very quiet and vague. This just feels like much more fitting his scum meta, although it's not a huge pool of evidence.With this, I'm actually much more confident in ShiaoPi being scum than Mr. Cheesecake. It's also late in the day, so I guess it's about time to finally cast a vote. ##Vote ShiaoPi
OMG TAKE A STANCE ON SOMETHING INSTEAD OF DISCREDITING YOUR OWN READ
+ Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 19:36 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 19:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am voting you now because:
-flip flopping on DP in some logical inconsistencies earlier
-not committing at all earlier
-writing a terribly bad case for the sake of writing one to get some pressure off yourself.
call it OMGUS if you want, I don't think so.
Also you have been on my hitlist now, Zentor is not around so I cannot ask him stuff right now, I just asked yamato a bunch of stuff earlier. Leaving you and with that crap contribution you look like the best option for today's lynch When was I under pressure...? I've just been trying find someone scummier than Mr. Cheesecake, but it's not an easy job, considering the relatively low activity and the high amount of townish/nullish players. There are many things in your filter that strike me as suspicious (mentioned earlier), and even though they're partly intuition and not solid proof, it's better than Mr. Cheesecake in my eyes (he started off under the radar but has had some engagement since then).
Why are you actively seeking to stop pressuring me?? Apparently anybody will do for this lynch despite your null reads on everybody.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 21:27 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 20:05 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:41 ShiaoPi wrote:On January 06 2013 19:36 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am voting you now because:
-flip flopping on DP in some logical inconsistencies earlier
-not committing at all earlier
-writing a terribly bad case for the sake of writing one to get some pressure off yourself.
call it OMGUS if you want, I don't think so.
Also you have been on my hitlist now, Zentor is not around so I cannot ask him stuff right now, I just asked yamato a bunch of stuff earlier. Leaving you and with that crap contribution you look like the best option for today's lynch When was I under pressure...? I've just been trying find someone scummier than Mr. Cheesecake, but it's not an easy job, considering the relatively low activity and the high amount of townish/nullish players. There are many things in your filter that strike me as suspicious (mentioned earlier), and even though they're partly intuition and not solid proof, it's better than Mr. Cheesecake in my eyes (he started off under the radar but has had some engagement since then). Several people have mentioned you as a possible lynch candidate that qualifies as under pressure. I would really be interested in those "many things" in my filter that are suspicious, I already answered the ones you quoted earlier. Please show them to me, I don't even know where you find them. Anyway I am out for dinner now. See you later. Okay... I guess that counts as pressure, although I haven't been even remotely in a dangerous spot until now. But this always happens to me when I'm town at some point, so I'm not too worried yet. Are you saying you were really pressuring RiseAgain? I just can't see anything but a weak fake pressure in that. Merely voting for someone without any actual pressure doesn't count as pressure. Some other players in this game have thrown away weak votes as well, but at least they tried to create some pressure. You didn't even try - the opposite, you openly said it was only an empty vote beforehand. Why were you suddenly okay with lynching DP when he started to gain a bandwagon for himself? All I can see is an opportunistic (yet extremely vague) move to potentially get rid of an active player. And when the bandwagon started to crumble, you suddenly dropped him from your suspects without saying a word about it. It feels like you're just trying to get someone lynched, and it doesn't really matter who. So I am back. Where did I say I was really pressuring Rise? I clearly said it was to get him to post, since I had questions for him, that I wanted to answer. It is blatantly clear in my filter.
I was not "suddenly" okay with lynching DP, stop misrepresenting facts. Mr.CC asked me who my other possible candidates were. That was after the first episode of DP/Hapa-shitfest but before the entire wagon on him started. I was active during the increasing pressure on DP, being part of it myself, before I had to leave cause of RL matters. How is it opportunistic for me to be one of the persons being there while the pressure added up, when I really thought that he might be red?? The bandwagon started to crumble because DP was doing some really townish posts, thing is I was not in the thread at that time. As soon as I was back und caught up I removed DP from my hitlist as he was much more townie now. I did not want to bloat my post with the DP matter again, when it was not part of the trending discussion in the thread, but I did "say a word" about it.... Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
-snip- I for sure care who gets lynched, seriously are you even reading this thread? I clearly stated which persons I want to lynch during varying times already.
I'm confused Batman. Pressure votes get ppl to post and stuff -- why are you saying you're not pressuring him? This post is basically just a summary of events also, useless kk.
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I really despise posts like that Mr.CC. Every time I've seen those "stream of consciousness," posts, it's been from scum.
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On January 07 2013 04:45 Hapahauli wrote:
I really despise posts like that Mr.CC. Every time I've seen those "stream of consciousness," posts, it's been from scum.
Well doesn't that suck for me huh.
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But we can kill somebody today, right?
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EPT
