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On January 11 2013 10:35 Sylencia wrote:GG everyone, game was pretty hard and it seems the obs were on to me too quickly 
GG Syl. Appearances may be deceiving though, from my perspective we were blundering about in obs with not much of a clue for a lot of the game.
My attempted bussing of Temil happened at the end of D1 because I realised he wasn't looking at the scum QT at all, and I got awfully nervous when he voted the same person I did.
That was a really good play, had me fooled until well into day 3. I thought you and Temil were marginally the most likely scum, but then I thought about the two of you as a scumteam and went "nahhh".
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I kind of feel like we had a very sheep-prone town. Everyone kind of let you (Mocsta) have the floor and control things because you had set the tempo early. I feel like this did not help, because no one ever thought to bring the other side of things into the argument.
StriX, Spag, and Jampi both acted too scummy to not be lynched. I agree with those lynches. It would've helped us immensely if they had been more town-oriented (maybe they didn't want to be NK'd?).
It really seemed like only one person was driving the town forward, which is dangerous because having only one opinion and everyone else jumping on board because that person looks good at the game is dangerous for the town. I know it sounded like I was being an asshole, but I was just trying to be pragmatic and keep all of my options open and think for myself.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to take anything away from Syl. He played a very good game flying just enough on the radar. I think town lost because of lack of opposing viewpoints among townies, townies acting really suspicious (StriX's filter, Spag backtracking on Jampi five times, and Jampi making really silly cases against Moc), and Syl playing really well.
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I don't agree that Jampi's cases on Mocsta were silly. I haven't read the case in full detail, but Mocsta's actual contributions to scumhunting were smallish in proportion to the volume of his posts.
Personally I was not convinced a huge amount by Jampi's case. The reasoning wasn't bad, but mitigating circumstances (sheer volume of posts is unlikely from newbie scum, Mocsta's meta) made Mocsta scum unlikely. However, it was very much a case made by a townie. If nothing else, a hypothetical scum Jampi would (IMO) make a case on someone who was a) an easier target and b) less likely to OMGUS him into oblivion.
Cases do not have to be correct to be made by a townie. In fact, cases don't have to be correct to make their creator look town-y.
Hell, a case doesn't even have to be good. It just has to be a case made by a townie. Which is not to say that all cases made by townies are obviously so.
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Fair points aqua. In the mafia qt sylencia wrote trying to set me up for day3.
what jampi tried to do unfortunately mimic'd that.
As an aside. Regardless of whether my reads are.right or wrong.
the heuristic to assume newbie scum are inactive is weak.
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On January 11 2013 16:00 cDgCorazon wrote:
I know it sounded like I was being an asshole, but I was just trying to be pragmatic and keep all of my options open and think for myself.
I don't think you were ever an asshole in the game. I thought you were the key.
To refresh your memory this was from my Night 1 post, I thought I was 50/50 with your for the NK.
On January 06 2013 01:07 Mocsta wrote:
cDgCorazon
Overall I like the way you are playing, and its good you called me out. That was a completely sound play.
The only thing I will say to you regarding the above is.. Towards the end, I think you were blinded by my actions and begun to tunnel me.
Because I think you are a critical component of this game, I tried my best to answer your questions with respect (but I REALLY wanted to just tell you to fuck off).
I am telling you this because for Day2, town REALLY will need your pragmatic approach to continue.
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On January 11 2013 16:46 Mocsta wrote:
As an aside. Regardless of whether my reads are.right or wrong.
the heuristic to assume newbie scum are inactive is weak.
True. But the most proactive player(s) in a newbie, the ones leading the town for better or worse, are often gonna be town. In my (limited) experience newbie scum range from completely inactive to fairly active, but they're generally not masterminding the town.
I imagine once one starts playing with the veterans all bets are off though ^^
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Aqua, though it is unusual I've seen newbie scum direct town (I wan newbie scum who owned town). Kush/JSL/Dibbers did it once. It is rare but don't make that a heuristic.
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Fair enough, everything is judged on a case by case basis. "Rare but not impossible" was what I was trying to say.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On January 11 2013 16:54 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 16:46 Mocsta wrote:
As an aside. Regardless of whether my reads are.right or wrong.
the heuristic to assume newbie scum are inactive is weak. True. But the most proactive player(s) in a newbie, the ones leading the town for better or worse, are often gonna be town. In my (limited) experience newbie scum range from completely inactive to fairly active, but they're generally not masterminding the town. I imagine once one starts playing with the veterans all bets are off though ^^
Aquanim is right. Spaghetticus shouldn't have been lynched mainly for his overwhelming inactivity.
I was all over the place with my reads in obsQT, thinking at first it was omni/jampi, and having to move on from there...
Spaghetticus' post on Temil's use of english was an excellent post. Did any of you go and look at what he presented? I did. Temil used complete, non-broken (if brief) english in several posts in other parts of the forum. This immediately made me think he was scum.
As for the final day, I said it in obsQT - you need to spend a fair amount of time on the guy you DON'T think you're lynching. Sylencia was let completely off the hook by the obsession with jampi, he didn't have to do anything! jampi proceeded to make one of the best posts in the game regarding Sylencia's voting, to be greeted by stony silence or 'we need further analysis'.
Mocsta, I hope I don't come across too harshly in obsQT. I very much like people who think and try a lot, like you do. You just need to get rid of the clutter. And certain things like your attitude to jampi when you told him you wouldn't answer his questions, or answer his case, stuff like that, are completely counter-productive.
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I spent a lot of time on both Syl and Mocsta, but after writing up lists upon lists of pros and cons there was no point in the game where I thought a case on either would both be a good move for town and result in a lynch.
A lot of stuff got ignored when it shouldn't have, I need to improve my filtering method, and stick to my cases/reads a little harder instead of posting a little bit on everyone.
In retrospect, when I found out TeMiL was scum I should have gone over Syl again, but hindsight 20/20 eh?
In regard to whether I should have been lynched: DP walked me through some reasoning and I agree with him that lynching an uncountered cop-claim seems bad. Mafia can't let a cop live, so they soak up the NK. If it's a false claim you will know with more certainty the next day to lynch them.
This, on top of my high level of activity probably should have dissuaded town. That being said, I woulda lynched me... so I don't blame anyone for it.
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What Marv said about the final day x100. Gonna paraphrase the obs qt regarding the mylo. It's really easy to assume the onus is on your scumread to prove the other guy is scum/he's town but remember it is your job to find scum, not wait for your read to do something.
Moc look over what you were saying made both Zare and Jampi scummy the last day. You thought Jampi was scummy for making cases on townies but syl's cases were all on confirmed town/jampi (except saying lynching temil makes mathematical sense which is just logic, not indicative at alignment at all without meta), just like Jampi.
You said that both Jampi and Zares inactivity is scummy but look at Syl. He has two posts from the nk to endgame of any value. He was happy to sit back and lurk while the town killed itself.
It's really hard to see this in a lylo/mylo situation but you were so sure that Jampi was scum you gave a free pass to Syl because nothing Jampi said was going to convince you and all Syl had to do was avoid being scummy and answer any softball questions thrown at him. At least consider Jampis points and get answers to his voting habits.
GG everyone, wp Syl
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Some stuff about rules and shit:
1) Why not talk about coaches:
This rule is for your own good.
+ Show Spoiler +People get lynched for mentioning the town coach(es) and claiming town like that.
If you look at the Spagh lynch, one of the points against him was how he did those posts about a town coach (I think it were the one where he pointed out that Prome took a while to respond, but not sure on that one). It might've seemed "okay" at the time, but once people think you're scum, they'll take ANYTHING to strenghten this read.
I also was a true scumbag and gave the scum QT the time when Prome went active in answering the PMs.
Second instance was when Omni wanted to talk about how the coach told him that 2 hours before DL is the best time to claim. Like... Again, the problems are not exactly the words, the problem is that he'll out himself as a blue, because what VT asks the coach when you're supposed to claim?
In all, I'd summarize this "rule" as such: You CAN talk about it, but the rule is there to make you think before you do it. Because more often than not, it backfires horribly.
I remember when Cheesecake tried to use host PM timings to confirm townies as well a few newbies back (XXX or so), and promptly got mislynched because of it.
Apparantly, this is a real rule nowadays, so that part is incorrect on my end.
Read the inside for a reasoning on the rule, then 
2) Talking about modkills:
Don't do it, this is an ACTUAL rule. Technically, even saying "we don't need to lynch X, he's getting modkilled anyways" is breaking a rule.
Spagh, when you threatened Temil with a modkill if he doesn't do what you say, it was not only against the rules, but also incredibly presumptious.
Let me cite the OP:
Activity:
You must post in this thread once per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. If you fail to do so, you will be modkilled.
When you said he's going to be modkilled, he had done nothing wrong yet. As long as he votes every day, he fullfills the activity requirements.
Don't talk about modaction.
3) Mocsta:
STOP BREAKING RULES FFS
Not every host is as incredibly lenient as I am. You could get modkilled for the first transgression, especially if it's not a newbie game.
I have been amazingly patient with you, even though you PM'd Corazon about the game, AFTER I ALREADY WARNED YOU TO NOT PM PEOPLE and told you that you're supposed to wait until the postgame.
Then you claimed town in the XXXV thread an estimated three times.
The last time, when I came across a tad aggressive in the thread warning, I already had the modkill written down ready to boot you into the next century, but changed it to a "last warning" at the last second. You had me tempted.
I don't think any other host will give you that much room, especially not in non-newbies so READ THE FUCKING OP.
Oh, and an advance warning, the host of XXXV is thrawn, who was also a cohost here. So you better not break too many rules there, he knows that you should know better by now. <3
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
no, talking about coaches should be absolutely forbidden. it's not optional.
edit: in fact, it is in the Newbie specific rules, but Dandel isn't using the newest one for some reason.
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On January 12 2013 00:16 Dandel Ion wrote:
I don't think any other host will give you that much room, especially not in non-newbies so READ THE FUCKING OP.
Oh, and an advance warning, the host of XXXV is thrawn, who was also a cohost here. So you better not break too many rules there, he knows that you should know better by now. <3
+1
if everyone fully reads the op everything will be fine, so do that
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On January 12 2013 00:19 marvellosity wrote:
no, talking about coaches should be absolutely forbidden. it's not optional.
edit: in fact, it is in the Newbie specific rules, but Dandel isn't using the newest one for some reason.
Is it?
I don't think it was during my newbies, so it gotta be pretty new as a true rule.
Hm, I guess that's my bad on the OP, but it wasn't in the rules for this game, so yeah.
Just remember it's forbidden in future newbies then~
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
I used it by XXVII but not in XXIV
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Too confusing.
Well it's a good rule, so I'll try and remember to copy-paste the right OP next time
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What's wrong with Mocsta claiming town in XXXV three times?
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Oh and sorry about the modkill stuff. I really just presumed that was what happened, and didn't realise it was taboo to talk about. Are you allowed to give people your thoughts to help play around a potential modkill?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
I can't believe you want an answer to why people shouldn't talk about their alignment out of game.
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EPT
