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On January 30 2013 08:22 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Also considering Prome told me (and everybody) Stutters is this "useless" every time he's town, I am thus willing to "forgive" him and focus on Crossfire more, and also considering Xfire's "blunders" and contradictions and wishy-washy play so far
I.e if I had 2 10/10 beasts I'd attack Cross right now and let Stutters be for another day.
Please don't say this kind of stuff.
Stutters: you are not getting a freebie from me. I don't give a shit about your meta. Start scumhunting or get zombied.
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On January 30 2013 09:21 Aperture Science wrote:
Final bit of MTG advice:
Minds Aglow doesn't just affect whoever puts in mana. It makes EVERYONE draw those cards.
Same with Collective Voyage.
Whoever said "keep the players balanced" had the right idea. 20 Zombies isn't bad when everyone has them. They're bad when one player has them. This isn't a mayor game, lets not turn it into one.
Balance works in a normal MTG game. This game has a giant scum monster that puts us on a time bomb. That basically means everybody needs to ramp up double speed and everything that helps us do that is good.
Do you honestly think that SnB casting two land enchantments will help more than giving everybody 2 cards? Or hell, he can cast 1 land enchantment AND give everybody 2 cards.
Sure, it helps us more, because we will get zombies out of discard. However, we have no fatties and no use from a potential subsequent collective voyage. Good chance that it will balance out in turn 3 and give everybody a monster start.
I definitely don't see getting a bunch of zombies out as being elected mayor.
Anyway, the Minds Aglow discussion is somewhat separate from the zombies. We do not HAVE to cast ZI and if everybody is soooo scared of us having some zombies, then we can delay that decision: even without discarding to turn them into zombies, it's worth it for us just to get our recycleable cards into play. Just as it should be worth it for pretty much everybody to get their power cards.
The other thing that needs correcting is that for every 2 cards we discard we get 1 Zombie. If we draw and discard 10 cards, that will give us 5 zombies. Not 20. Lets stop exaggerating.
Realistic expectation is somewhere between 5 and 7 zombies, depending on how much mana is contributed and how much extra we discard from our current hand.
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I also think that Minds Aglow has been discussed to death by now. Imho Bin should just cast it or say he won't and be done with it. That way everybody can play what they want.
/Acro (and so was the previous post)
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Well good to see you're having "fun".
~dandel
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The flipside of the coin is that if we all played like you: pointlessly trolling into silence we would get even less done.
This whole discussion is pointless, stupid and going nowhere.
/Acro
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Back ontopic:
On January 30 2013 09:55 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
I also think that Minds Aglow has been discussed to death by now. Imho Bin should just cast it or say he won't and be done with it. That way everybody can play what they want.
/Acro (and so was the previous post)
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Yo bin, you might wanna play an island.
Just so, you know, you can actually play your card.
Forest is not quite blue enough.
~dandel
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Alright, 5 mana on minds, means I'm gonna cast ZI now.
Since we're not really expecting (people to want) much more cards.
~dandel
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On January 30 2013 13:55 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:
wut
also i will tap my forest to play wild growth on my savannah then i will tap that to put two mana into the other thing
also also arguing about how much gonzaw et al is/are posting is stupid. it's like you've never played a game with him before. i used to rage at him too but now i kind of just let the waves of posting wash over me. it makes deep analysis of the game pretty much impossible though, so you either have to filter specific people or else you have to just kind of play on general impressions. but with someone posting that much you can't try and read the whole game.
it's just kind of his/their thing. i really wish they would not do it but ive pretty much given up, what are you gonna do.
reads time: bin on fire is probably town because he feels town to me right now (lol)
no but seriously
bin on fire is probably town because of how he's being helpful and promoting discussion and shit.
scumreads are tough but right now i'm pointing at whatever the acro hydra is. i really don't like how he was all "you gotta give me your power or else think i'm scum", forcing people into shitty dichotomies is not a good way to go about being townie. also how he's been running for mayor while refusing to acknowledge that he was running for mayor until we made him.
okay bedtime -snb
![[image loading]](http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/7543/hydraunconvincedmeme.jpg)
I was going to put that in spoiler tags, but it deserves to be seen.
Let me get this straight: I forced you into a shitty dichotomy? Nope. All I said was that you seem overly butthurt over HRM and if you had an actual reason for not wanting a shambling herd of zombies, you should come out and say so. Of course, my tone was taunting, because I really want you to post more, because I have been leaning scum on you all game and that has not improved over time.
PS. I haven't asked NT or iGrok to call me scum and they also have their reservations about zombies. NT and iGrok are straightforward: iGrok just doesn't want rampant power growth from anybody and NT just doesn't want a null read getting too much power. I have my reservations about both reasons and have given my counter-arguments.
You, however, shroud whatever reason you have in policy chatter. Instead of giving an actual straight reason you give vague platitudes like:
On January 30 2013 05:16 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 04:10 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
@Marv: you said SnB wasn't around, yet he dropped in to play a Savannah (in a slightly trolly way) before you posted your "help me, SnB deserted me" and has now posted a long policy post. Why did you excuse yourself due to SnB's absence, despite SnB clearly not being absent.
@SnB: unless you plan on wiping out everybody else in turn 2 or 3 or so, you will have to rely on your fellow townies. We play as a team. Making every part of that team stronger is good. Now if you're worried about zombies (Nova and iGrok as well), then you should probably start analysing our posts. We have made enough of them and have been rather transparent. Do you think we're scum?
/Acro I want to make *everybody* stronger. I don't want to put a disproportionate amount of strength in any one specific player. You're distorting my position.
Which sounds great, but you give no actual way of MAKING everybody stronger.
Additionally, Marv evades questions with a reflection, while doing none of his usual town play. You know what happened last time Marv lurked through day 1? He flipped scum.
You... well:
1. Utter dearth of sensible scumhunting in your filter.
2. Vague policies with no practical import to the game.
3. Inconsistent play: fear of zombies into giving away free zombies.
But it's okay, you're probably both back into lurk and I won't get a response. You have until the attack phase of D2 to convince me you're not scum.
/Acro
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On January 30 2013 18:22 RockHydra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 01:05 Clockwork Hydra wrote:On January 30 2013 00:43 Aperture Science wrote:
What I'm advocating (before anyone says "waaah all you ever do is tell us not to play things") is not to play things that could help scum. Lets see what we already know:
Someone can have 10+ Zombies out T1 if you play Mind's Aglow, and can swing with them T2, killing someone.
At least one person is running Fatties. Honestly I'd be happier with Fatties than a dozen Zombies.
@Zeb, Artanis might not have thought that someone would play mind's aglow for 10 T1. I know he's okay with being able to combo out one player by turn 2, which is what cheerio storm does - unless it draws a dozen extra cards, then it combos everyone. You are running really scared of what scum *might* do, instead of thinking of what they probably WILL do. If there is some deck that will combo out everybody on T2, then it is 3.5x more likely to be on town side. Meaning we have a 7:2 chance of town winning on T2, right off the bat. Maybe we should discuss deck strategies a bit more and who is playing what, in order to decide whether any potential combos will fuck us over, or win us the game. Thereby shifting the probabilities even further in our favour. Also, you only have to fear zombies, if you're scum. Are you scum, iGrok? Your extremely cautious play indicates to me that you are. A townie being afraid of all the potential ways he can die would try to figure out whether they can and will actually happen, rather than fear monger with it. Also, as I said above, townies have statistics on their side and thus less reason to be scared. /Acro The underlined part is just not true. Don't post lies unless you wanna appear scummy.
Not a lie. It's entirely from my point of view, but it's not a lie.
/Acro
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On January 30 2013 15:47 Nova_Terra wrote:
##Tap: Forest for Join forces
Need to do this in the board thread too
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On January 30 2013 14:43 Crossfire99 wrote:<snip>
Now onto some scum hunting. Let's take a look at Clockwork shall we. Look at the contradiction at how he responds to virtually the same question: + Show Spoiler + On January 30 2013 00:30 Clockwork Hydra wrote:-snipped- But the worst part is the last bit: Show nested quote +
Oh, also can anyone that played in the first MTG Mafia summarize any hugely important things from it? Basically, I'm trying to think what is better, everyone attacking 1 person or everyone slowly whittling down everyone else, so they'll be easier to kill later. Typing that out makes me think that attacking 1 person is best because it will be as close to a normal lynch as possible, but I'm not sure with all this magic stuff, so I'm asking.
1. Can some over-eager townie please do all the hard work for me, by giving me a cliffnotes version of a long and complicated game? PS. All the time you spend summarizing that game for my lazy ass, you're not scumhunting, so doublescore one for me! 2. More MTG discussion, but this time with extra wishy wash! For the record: we focus down people. Why make it easier for the mafia creature to kill people? That is one of the mistakes made in the first game, which you would know if you had read it... like everybody has been telling you to. The entire post is completely useless. It contributes nothing, yet tries to sound as if he is actually contributing, with a "novel" point on the use of Minds Aglow and a pointless question about policy. If this post didn't put you on instant red alert, your scumdar needs fixing. and this + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2013 08:59 Clockwork Hydra wrote:-snipped- Show nested quote +
What do you think were the "mistakes" town did in the previous game and the "reason" scum won that game?
Well, you mentioned quite a bit of it. They/you spent a LOT of time bickering about useless stuff (not just setup, but completely pointless stuff about setup) and town didn't play as a team (mainly due to everybody mistrusting each other for stupid shit). This game is fundamentally different from normal mafia games not just in that we kill with magic, but because we don't actually have a town-controlled KP. It is thus twice as important to be an active townie, because we are a town TEAM. We need to work together, because our strength is in numbers. This turn people may be able to play one creature, which is a bit of a wimp. But if next turn we can all attack one player with wimps, that will be a healthy chunk of damage. If everybody goes off attacking their own favourite target without reasoning it out properly (like happened in the first 3 turns or so of the previous game), then we have lots of players at 16 life and one dead townie due to mafia creature. That is pointless, and last game was in fact harmful, because the mafia creature could one-shot people sooner than should have been possible (although mafia derped too when they missed an attack). Yes, they're more elaborate forms of our own policies, with some stuff we forgot about. /Acro . Why is he so upset that I asked that question when before he thought it a completely relevant and important question to spend some time on a serious response? There is no reason for such a disparity in opinion.
You totally should have read MTG Mini Mafia 1. Nobody is summarizing it for you. Asking for a summary made me think you were either lazy, or trying to get other people distracted. The former is a null tell, the latter is a scum tell. I chose to phrase it as a scum tell to gauge your response.
Also, no contradiction: you really should have read MTG Mini Mafia 1.
I'd say that the way this game is moving, if your time is limited, you're probably better off just focusing on this game now, though.
Also, look at this post where they advise caution when powering up a single person + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2013 09:07 Clockwork Hydra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 08:42 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:On January 29 2013 08:25 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
I know we're all excited to get this started, but can we please get over the trolling phase?
And, honestly, yes, signing IS important. Firstly there are umpteen hydras here and I don't even know which hydra belongs to whom. Secondly, your train of thought should be clear. It's unfair not just to me, but ot others in this game who may not be as familiar with most of you.
Also, assuming the first game did things right is a gross misrepresentation of that game. I read it at the time, and it was a concatenation of mistakes. Partially because people got setup speculation wrong in the beginning, and partially due to just plain bad play.
Scum won that game... and they won for a reason. Lets not repeat it. What trolling phase? Who is trolling right now?What do you think were the "mistakes" town did in the previous game and the "reason" scum won that game? Do you agree with my commandments or not? (short answer please) /GW Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 08:45 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Aperture, will you troll the whole game like this?
If I want I could start fucking you up right now, I even have a card that can do it.
BinOnFire, you there? Wanna post about something? rhetorical questions, already? huh. As for your points, they're fairly straightforward. The thing about #4 (also kinda applies to #5): Sure it's a townies job to establish his townieness - but if everybody did that properly, we wouldn't need any policies in the first place, now. I shall be reluctant to participate in plans when they result in a favorable position of somebody whose alignment I have no clue about. And I advise everybody to use the same caution in regards to this. On the other hand, I won't have any problems cooperating with people whose townieness I am sure of. (or at least if acro is, that's fine too) ~dandel . Then look at how they throw caution to the wind and say everyone trust us and do what's best for us because they would benefit disproportionately from this Minds Aglow play with tons of mana put towards it + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2013 11:00 Clockwork Hydra wrote:Okay so here's the thing: We are running Zombie Infestation. (this badboy right here: + Show Spoiler +) For that reason, we would have prefered Minds aglow next turn (and given all 3 mana, too!), but it seems like like it would be more beneficial to town in general this turn, than delaying until next turn  So if it's going to be today, we would REALLY like to cast zombie infestation this turn (instead of contributing mana). And of course still ask everyone else to use as much mana as humanly possible! Not just the lurkers/scum! Everyone! Think of it as a group project! I promise we're not crazy (or scum) ~dandel (with acro's consent) . I mean it's not even 3 hours into day 1 yet. It would be one thing to just advocate power plays, but the fact they warn against them and say to be really careful, but then instantly say to back theirs is ridiculous. Lastly, I already showed before how their attack on me was bad and all of this definitely has me thinking Clockwork is the first scum.
I don't see a contradiction. Look closely. Use that thing that is supposedly between your ears.
So. Now that we have dismantled this entire atrocity of a case, do you have any actual contributions to the game? I should probably discuss with dandel before deciding whether you're scum or not. My gut is screaming the same as gonzaw's, but dandel was rather null on you yesterday and preferred someone else as Suck's partner in crime.
I suggest you start playing. I have no past history with you. I read PU and you were confirmed town like 10 minutes into the game (or so). Dandel followed WLIIA mafia and here's what he said about you that game:
[1/29/2013 10:33:50 AM] Dandel Ion: i read/obs'd WLIIA
[1/29/2013 10:34:01 AM] Dandel Ion: where he also played okay-ish
[1/29/2013 10:34:26 AM] Dandel Ion: but it fits his wliia play a bit, because he was kinda confused about the theme
[1/29/2013 10:34:56 AM] Dandel Ion: on the other hand, he had some ridiculous plans about the setup there
[1/29/2013 10:35:10 AM] Dandel Ion: which at least means he tried to do something
[1/29/2013 10:35:17 AM] Dandel Ion: not seeing that so far
+ Show Spoiler +I cut out my irrelevant interjections.
Show us some of that town play.
/Acro
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b-but a-a-acro... those were our private moments.
*cry*
~dandel
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Has snb taught you how to play magic yet?
~dandel
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On January 30 2013 22:06 RockHydra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 21:20 Clockwork Hydra wrote:On January 30 2013 18:22 RockHydra wrote:On January 30 2013 01:05 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
Also, you only have to fear zombies, if you're scum.
The underlined part is just not true. Don't post lies unless you wanna appear scummy. Not a lie. It's entirely from my point of view, but it's not a lie. /Acro If you tell people how to feel, it might be better to look at it from their POV. /zebezt
Why, that's completely pointless. If you tell me that you're afraid of the dark, I'm not going to look at it from your point of view. I'm going to tell you that you shouldn't be afraid of the dark and give you a bunch of reasons for why the dark isn't scary.
You know why zombies aren't scary if you're not scum? Because they won't attack you!
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On January 30 2013 22:25 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 22:22 Clockwork Hydra wrote:On January 30 2013 22:06 RockHydra wrote:On January 30 2013 21:20 Clockwork Hydra wrote:On January 30 2013 18:22 RockHydra wrote:On January 30 2013 01:05 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
Also, you only have to fear zombies, if you're scum.
The underlined part is just not true. Don't post lies unless you wanna appear scummy. Not a lie. It's entirely from my point of view, but it's not a lie. /Acro If you tell people how to feel, it might be better to look at it from their POV. /zebezt Why, that's completely pointless. If you tell me that you're afraid of the dark, I'm not going to look at it from your point of view. I'm going to tell you that you shouldn't be afraid of the dark and give you a bunch of reasons for why the dark isn't scary. You know why zombies aren't scary if you're not scum? Because they won't attack you! How can you guarantee this? Is there something I'm missing?
No guarantees. But at the moment it sure looks like they're heading your way. A big post that says "I'm harmless and useless" but does nothing much else is not convincing me otherwise.
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It's a point.
I wouldn't call it proven.
I expect it to be falsified when marv flips scum.
Carry on.
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On January 30 2013 23:06 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 23:05 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
It's a point.
I wouldn't call it proven.
I expect it to be falsified when marv flips scum.
Carry on. Which is precisely why you and your judgement shouldn't be trusted...
So get off your ass, stop taking cheap shots and show us why you're town.
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Marvellosity lurking through D1:
MTG Mini Mafia I (lurked through the whole game. Toad posted. Verdict: scum.
There was another game, but I can't remember which one. You lurked through D1 and were scum. It was before CT and I didn't play in it. I tried searching through your profile, but I can only get it to show the last 10 pages of posts (might be date limited) and have no clue how to search for older posts.
Also, the defense that you are never suspected D1 as scum is a complete non-sequitur. It has absolutely nothing to do with whether you are scum this game. Are you seriously trying to say that because we suspect you of being scum, you can't be scum. Is that REALLY your defense?
/Acro
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Seeing as pretty much all the tells come from Oats' behaviour, I have to tentatively disagree.
If we tell you that Oats is rather newbie, does that change your verdict in any way?
Some things you have down as strong tells I really don't agree with.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 29 2013 12:48 BinOnFire wrote:
Did you not say that only scummy players contribute mana towards Minds Aglow?
Then you said that it gives them a chance to look 'townie'
Also, yes town can actually have some teeth, but this is also good for scum in the sense that a Vig is good for scum. More often than not, Vig's shoot town. Same with lynches.
I would think that scum would want to get enough 'power' to 1 shot people as fast as possible to reduce the number of townies, thats why the card is also good for them
/Oats
You give them 7 scum points for this, yet I don't see anything except someone being wrong in a weird way.
I do agree with you that it is weird that their whole deck idea is supposedly based around getting everybody up to speed fast, yet Oats is apparently totally not on-board with that plan. Did you guys not discuss the deck beforehand? But is this a scumtell? Or just someone not understanding what the deck is about?
I personally didn't have Bin down as town yet, mainly because I feel he could not play his deck any other way and he doesn't done much in the scumhunting department, but I don't have a scum read on him for the things you bring up.
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EPT
