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[T] MTG Mini Mafia II - Page 4

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Clockwork Hydra
Profile Joined January 2013
Uzbekistan442 Posts
January 29 2013 19:10 GMT
#472
@Marv: you said SnB wasn't around, yet he dropped in to play a Savannah (in a slightly trolly way) before you posted your "help me, SnB deserted me" and has now posted a long policy post. Why did you excuse yourself due to SnB's absence, despite SnB clearly not being absent.

@SnB: unless you plan on wiping out everybody else in turn 2 or 3 or so, you will have to rely on your fellow townies. We play as a team. Making every part of that team stronger is good. Now if you're worried about zombies (Nova and iGrok as well), then you should probably start analysing our posts. We have made enough of them and have been rather transparent. Do you think we're scum?

/Acro
Clockwork Hydra
Profile Joined January 2013
Uzbekistan442 Posts
January 29 2013 19:12 GMT
#473
Our deck relies heavily on discarding lots of stuff that we get back. We have a number of possible winner cards, all dependent on discarding. ZI is the primary one.
Clockwork Hydra
Profile Joined January 2013
Uzbekistan442 Posts
January 29 2013 19:35 GMT
#478
On January 30 2013 03:17 Nova_Terra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2013 02:50 BinOnFire wrote:
You must have missed my earlier post on the extended plan involving Minds Aglow. I'll dig it up for you:

On January 29 2013 09:45 BinOnFire wrote:
To further expand on plan 1)

Cast Minds Aglow T1, hope to hit Collective Voyage (77% if we do all draw ~10 cards), Collective Voyage T2, everyone has ~20 lands in play for T3.


Everyone drawing cards might not be pro-town, I agree, but everyone having upwards of 20 land by turn 3 is most assuredly good for us: even if the scum players can kill two of us immediately, it's still a 5v2, with a pretty clear indicator of alignment.

Durr. Completely misread Collective Voyage.
Heres the thing. I have a very low amount of basic lands, and from what i can tell, CH has none. what would this mean? Tons of zombies. Furthermore, there is no reason to believe that we would know who the scum are even if we did end up with 7 players left, and I would think that we may be in a similar situation (of not knowing who the scum are) then.
I would agree with using Collective Voyage on a smaller scale, but 20 lands each? I think we're begging for trouble. The strength of town is their numbers and collective majority, all we would end up doing is making it easier for people who make one slightly scummy mistake to get killed.
We have good minds here, lets figure it out.


Regardless of the zombie thing that you clearly just misunderstood, I don't see how making everybody able to 1-shot each other is a bad thing. It completely negates the 1 thing that scum have over town: their mafia creature.

Whether Collective Voyage is able to put us in that position in T3? I don't know. It isn't for me (but Minds Aglow is, so the point is moot). I would be happy to contribute mana tomorrow to a collective voyage if it looks like it'll put a lot of townies in a powerful position. And if it happens to put scum in a powerful position too? Well, that's why we have NUMBERS on our side. Only risk is some combo deck being able to 1-shot everybody at once and that deck being in the hands of scum. I'll take my chances. Statistics favour us on that one as well.

/Acro
Clockwork Hydra
Profile Joined January 2013
Uzbekistan442 Posts
January 29 2013 19:48 GMT
#480
On January 30 2013 04:36 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2013 04:10 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
@Marv: you said SnB wasn't around, yet he dropped in to play a Savannah (in a slightly trolly way) before you posted your "help me, SnB deserted me" and has now posted a long policy post. Why did you excuse yourself due to SnB's absence, despite SnB clearly not being absent.

@SnB: unless you plan on wiping out everybody else in turn 2 or 3 or so, you will have to rely on your fellow townies. We play as a team. Making every part of that team stronger is good. Now if you're worried about zombies (Nova and iGrok as well), then you should probably start analysing our posts. We have made enough of them and have been rather transparent. Do you think we're scum?

/Acro


Put it this way, Artanis didn't even really know we were hydraing until after the game started, and didn't know our hydra name (nor did I).


Great, you're around. Find me some scum. All you've really done is make a really weak pressure post against us for "giving scum a recipe on looking townie" when you are better than that: it was blatantly obvious that going along with something that had gotten a "pro-town plan" stamp of approval could be used to gain town credit. Stating the obvious is not giving scum a recipe, it's stating the obvious.

Your pressure was weaksauce and you spent like 5 posts arguing about it. You're better than that. Now stop playing LIX and pay attention here. Who's scum?

/Acro
Clockwork Hydra
Profile Joined January 2013
Uzbekistan442 Posts
January 29 2013 20:20 GMT
#492
On January 30 2013 05:19 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2013 05:00 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:
On January 30 2013 04:48 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
On January 30 2013 04:36 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:
On January 30 2013 04:10 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
@Marv: you said SnB wasn't around, yet he dropped in to play a Savannah (in a slightly trolly way) before you posted your "help me, SnB deserted me" and has now posted a long policy post. Why did you excuse yourself due to SnB's absence, despite SnB clearly not being absent.

@SnB: unless you plan on wiping out everybody else in turn 2 or 3 or so, you will have to rely on your fellow townies. We play as a team. Making every part of that team stronger is good. Now if you're worried about zombies (Nova and iGrok as well), then you should probably start analysing our posts. We have made enough of them and have been rather transparent. Do you think we're scum?

/Acro


Put it this way, Artanis didn't even really know we were hydraing until after the game started, and didn't know our hydra name (nor did I).


Great, you're around. Find me some scum. All you've really done is make a really weak pressure post against us for "giving scum a recipe on looking townie" when you are better than that: it was blatantly obvious that going along with something that had gotten a "pro-town plan" stamp of approval could be used to gain town credit. Stating the obvious is not giving scum a recipe, it's stating the obvious.

Your pressure was weaksauce and you spent like 5 posts arguing about it. You're better than that. Now stop playing LIX and pay attention here. Who's scum?

/Acro


well that attitude isn't going to get you anywhere, dear. what did you think of s&b's policy post?


I responded to the bits I found pertinent. Regarding attacking, I said something about it in a previous post where I addressed Xfire's weird aggression at Gonzaw. Attacking is great. Attacking is awesome. But if I have a choice between attacking with a 1/1 and chump blocking your giant eldrazi mofo that is going to fuck me up. I will chump block. Use that shit to attack scum.

Also, willy nilly, everybody attacks whoever they feel like is pathetic and harmful to town (due to mafia creature being able to kill people it otherwise might not).

Whoops. For the filter.
Clockwork Hydra
Profile Joined January 2013
Uzbekistan442 Posts
January 29 2013 20:27 GMT
#494
On January 30 2013 05:16 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2013 04:10 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
@Marv: you said SnB wasn't around, yet he dropped in to play a Savannah (in a slightly trolly way) before you posted your "help me, SnB deserted me" and has now posted a long policy post. Why did you excuse yourself due to SnB's absence, despite SnB clearly not being absent.

@SnB: unless you plan on wiping out everybody else in turn 2 or 3 or so, you will have to rely on your fellow townies. We play as a team. Making every part of that team stronger is good. Now if you're worried about zombies (Nova and iGrok as well), then you should probably start analysing our posts. We have made enough of them and have been rather transparent. Do you think we're scum?

/Acro


I want to make *everybody* stronger. I don't want to put a disproportionate amount of strength in any one specific player. You're distorting my position.

Yet you seem opposed to drawing cards. So far Gonzaw has claimed he can get benefits from discarding. We get a benefit from discarding. That's 2 players. Everybody else strengthens their hand. Next turn, there's probably a lot of land coming anybody who plays basic lands in their deck. That strengthens everybody further.

What alternative plan do you have for your mana?
Clockwork Hydra
Profile Joined January 2013
Uzbekistan442 Posts
January 29 2013 20:31 GMT
#495
You also failed to answer the main question there: do you think we're scum? Sure, people's judgement in using 8/8 tramply beasts of awesome might not always be the best, but unless we actually GET some 8/8 tramply beasts of awesome on town side, we're just punching bags for the mafia creature. Minds Aglow seems by far the fastest way to get there.

Now obviously, if you think the 8/8 tramply creature (or in this case shambling herd of zombies) is going to scum, then by all means oppose it. But don't hide in policy crap. Come out and say "look guys, we should not draw millions of cards, because scum will get a shambling herd of zombies".

/Acro
Clockwork Hydra
Profile Joined January 2013
Uzbekistan442 Posts
January 29 2013 20:40 GMT
#498
On January 30 2013 02:15 Aperture Science wrote:
Lol, no. I have to fear zombies if A) Zombies are scum, -OR- B) Zombies think i'm scum. And since apparently every think's i'm scum, I have to fear them.

I'm not the one going around telling everyone how they should play. I'm explaining various possibilities they need t obe aware of. From how many people asked for help building a deck, its obvious to me that not everyone has extensive mtg experience.

Show nested quote +
Also, as I said above, townies have statistics on their side and thus less reason to be scared.

This is a ridiculous statement. Town ALWAYS has statistics on their side. Actually, you've made a lot of ridiculous statements this game.

Until I get a better idea of who is town, I'm not following anybody's plan. And unlike you, I can scumhunt without posting every thought that enters my head.

God you're irritating. I'm going back to work

Nice deflection there.
Regarding A: do you? If not, why you agitating.
Regarding B: you're not doing a very good job of looking like town, so are you particularly surprised that people think you're scum? Maybe step up your play and the shambling herd of zombies won't feel like eating your brains any more.

/Acro
Clockwork Hydra
Profile Joined January 2013
Uzbekistan442 Posts
January 29 2013 21:31 GMT
#502
On January 30 2013 06:19 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2013 05:31 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
You also failed to answer the main question there: do you think we're scum? Sure, people's judgement in using 8/8 tramply beasts of awesome might not always be the best, but unless we actually GET some 8/8 tramply beasts of awesome on town side, we're just punching bags for the mafia creature. Minds Aglow seems by far the fastest way to get there.

Now obviously, if you think the 8/8 tramply creature (or in this case shambling herd of zombies) is going to scum, then by all means oppose it. But don't hide in policy crap. Come out and say "look guys, we should not draw millions of cards, because scum will get a shambling herd of zombies".

/Acro


i dont have to think you're scum to not want you to get more powerful than anyone else. I just have to think you're likely to come to incorrect conclusions and not listen to me.

I think that if you alone have a shambling herd of zombies, that's not good for town, regardless of whether you are town or not.

SnB I presume?

Well, lets play this game.

1. What is the difference between this situation and town being given a vig? You have no control over who the vig shoots. Your job is therefore to help him scumhunt and make the right shot. So far you have done zip diddly squat of that.

2. I am presuming you are STILL butthurt over HRM? Can't see what else this can be. Also, if you make a convincing argument that someone is scum, or at the very least that you are not scum, then of course we'll listen. After like 4 or 5 games together I figure you'd know me as a pretty reasonable guy.

/Acro
Clockwork Hydra
Profile Joined January 2013
Uzbekistan442 Posts
January 29 2013 21:33 GMT
#503
On January 30 2013 06:25 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2013 06:19 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:
On January 30 2013 05:31 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
You also failed to answer the main question there: do you think we're scum? Sure, people's judgement in using 8/8 tramply beasts of awesome might not always be the best, but unless we actually GET some 8/8 tramply beasts of awesome on town side, we're just punching bags for the mafia creature. Minds Aglow seems by far the fastest way to get there.

Now obviously, if you think the 8/8 tramply creature (or in this case shambling herd of zombies) is going to scum, then by all means oppose it. But don't hide in policy crap. Come out and say "look guys, we should not draw millions of cards, because scum will get a shambling herd of zombies".

/Acro


i dont have to think you're scum to not want you to get more powerful than anyone else. I just have to think you're likely to come to incorrect conclusions and not listen to me.

I think that if you alone have a shambling herd of zombies, that's not good for town, regardless of whether you are town or not.


its like electing a mayor. i dont want to vote for you, acrofales, to be mayor.

(coughcoughholyromanmafiacough)

Eh, like 95% of the game I was a fucking awesome mayor. I screwed up on trolling with Drazerk in the last day. That doesn't mean I didn't play a good game the other 95%. Also, get over it. That was half a year and like 4 or 5 games together ago.
Clockwork Hydra
Profile Joined January 2013
Uzbekistan442 Posts
January 29 2013 21:37 GMT
#504
On January 30 2013 06:24 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2013 05:27 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
On January 30 2013 05:16 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:
On January 30 2013 04:10 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
@Marv: you said SnB wasn't around, yet he dropped in to play a Savannah (in a slightly trolly way) before you posted your "help me, SnB deserted me" and has now posted a long policy post. Why did you excuse yourself due to SnB's absence, despite SnB clearly not being absent.

@SnB: unless you plan on wiping out everybody else in turn 2 or 3 or so, you will have to rely on your fellow townies. We play as a team. Making every part of that team stronger is good. Now if you're worried about zombies (Nova and iGrok as well), then you should probably start analysing our posts. We have made enough of them and have been rather transparent. Do you think we're scum?

/Acro


I want to make *everybody* stronger. I don't want to put a disproportionate amount of strength in any one specific player. You're distorting my position.

Yet you seem opposed to drawing cards. So far Gonzaw has claimed he can get benefits from discarding. We get a benefit from discarding. That's 2 players. Everybody else strengthens their hand. Next turn, there's probably a lot of land coming anybody who plays basic lands in their deck. That strengthens everybody further.

What alternative plan do you have for your mana?


i'm not opposed to drawing cards, it would just be better for me (and I think for the rest of town) to do it turn2 so we have to discard less. If it really would be better to do it today then let's go, but I'm not convinced that it's the best decision for the town. But I'm kind of reconsidering that if it makes it likely that we could play that "get all your basic lands" card.


What else would you spend your mana on?
Clockwork Hydra
Profile Joined January 2013
Uzbekistan442 Posts
January 29 2013 21:59 GMT
#507
On January 30 2013 06:44 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
So Nova, do you have any reads that are not null besides a town read on us? (me? How does one use the personal when one is more than one person?)

P

We were wondering when you'd make your appearance. You should drop in more often. Can you give us your own personal opinion on the state of the game?

/both
Clockwork Hydra
Profile Joined January 2013
Uzbekistan442 Posts
January 29 2013 22:00 GMT
#508
On January 30 2013 06:41 Nova_Terra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2013 04:33 RockHydra wrote:
I disagree with the notion of everything that can attack should attack. However, I would only accept that if you were legitimately doing other things, instead of simply not attacking. The combat phase is like the voting structure, so if you either don't have creatures, or you have abilities that you want to use instead of attacking, I would like an explanation of what you intend to do and why. In addition, if you cannot contribute to the attacking phase itself, I'd like input on who you would like to have focused down, if anyone.




I can't say I have anyone who I really think is scum yet. iGrok is the trolliest of us, so he's the lowest level of null in terms of who I would be inclined to attack.

Clockwork and ThePoster are active and from my perspective are trying to steer the town in the "correct" (whatever that means) direction from their point of view.

Stutters has yet to follow through on:
On January 30 2013 00:48 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm up, catching up now.

I'm willing to let slide the initial posting because he said he was at work. I initially found it scummy that ThePoster took a swing at stutters for being afkish last night, but he's done that to almost everything in the thread (looking at you gonzaw).
Stutter's you caught up yet or what? You should have had plenty of time by now, give us something.

Regarding Xfire, and what I asked Acro to expand upon
-> If you haven't seen cross' mafia play from Mario mini, consult with Dandel (he co-hosted). I believe I can "feel" his enthusiasm towards this game and based on what I've seen of his scum play, my gut-read is town on him from his opening post alone. Obviously this is a meta read, but his filter is too short to make anything more than that out of it.

BinOnFire seems to have a very pro-town deck setup, so his posting so far, while generally beneficial for town, is pigeonholed due to the nature of the deck he's running. Aside from wanting to keep him around because we will all benefit, I don't see any great contributions to develop a town OR scum read on him.

I'm null on Nova. His posting doesn't give off scumvibes, and he gave out reads seemingly as soon as they came to mind when he found his way into the thread. However, he developed a suspicion on CH and went off on a speculation tangent:
+ Show Spoiler +
On January 30 2013 02:47 Nova_Terra wrote:
2 things before dinner:
I feel that ThePoster is doing a fine job, and has been attempting to do more actual scumhunting and pro-town things than the rest of us. Compared to CH, where I find that much if not most of the time he has been trying to explain why he feels that Minds Aglow is good for the entire town, not only for him. the second thing is related to this:
How is Minds Aglow particularly pro town? If we have to discard back to 7 anyway, I don't like giving CH 10 zombies. Why? Because if he gets 10 zombies before we can get anything that could even come close to rivaling that and he turns out to be scum, we're screwed. Thats like mafia having 30 kp, and we couldnt even be sure if he IS scum because he could just target "scummy" town players. kill 2 of them, and the games like, over. unless someone draws some miracle, that is.

with a lot of hypothetical thinking that assumes CH is scum. I'm fine with general paranoia, but this post just felt a little to assertive in picking a target.

Generally waiting to see what SMTD does, as marv isn't exactly readable day1 and SnB has posted very little.

Dont get me wrong, im pretty much null on CH. I do think it is much too early to give a null read that much power tho.

Nice non-committal stance. I believe we have the highest postcount and it's not all meaningless setup banter either.

Do you have an opinion of Poster?

/Acro
Clockwork Hydra
Profile Joined January 2013
Uzbekistan442 Posts
January 29 2013 22:13 GMT
#516
On January 30 2013 07:03 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Sorry bro(s) I had one hell of a weekend, I've got some free hours today though so I'm here. I'll be here as much as I can, you know I just can't quit you.

I like where we are, as a whole town seems to be scum hunting instead of set-up hunting which is what Gon and I said should be our day one goal if we rolled town. I am not too fussed about using mind aglow today as long as we don't have to discard a million cards, I know Gon already mentioned this but I think forcing all for town to discard 20 cards is actually anti-town (once again it goes back to numbers, town is discarding 7 cards for every two mafia discards).

I have some decent town reads and I'm working on narrowing the suspect list so in terms of day one I'd say we're doing pretty pretty decent.

As said before: discarding is only bad if you have to discard good shit. If you have to discard a load of land and a couple of cheap creatures when you can play your fatties next turn, it definitely doesn't hurt. It also allows any combo deck to pick the pieces together. Discard is only bad if you discard bad stuff. There's a reason cards like Merfolk Looter and Careful Study aren't seen as bad: you get to draw good stuff and discard shit. It may not be pure card advantage, but it's definitely boosting the quality of your hand.

Especially as Bin can tell us whether he'll cast Voyage next turn before the discard phase, allowing you to plan ahead for that.
Clockwork Hydra
Profile Joined January 2013
Uzbekistan442 Posts
January 29 2013 22:26 GMT
#520
On January 30 2013 07:03 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2013 06:37 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
On January 30 2013 06:24 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:
On January 30 2013 05:27 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
On January 30 2013 05:16 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:
On January 30 2013 04:10 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
@Marv: you said SnB wasn't around, yet he dropped in to play a Savannah (in a slightly trolly way) before you posted your "help me, SnB deserted me" and has now posted a long policy post. Why did you excuse yourself due to SnB's absence, despite SnB clearly not being absent.

@SnB: unless you plan on wiping out everybody else in turn 2 or 3 or so, you will have to rely on your fellow townies. We play as a team. Making every part of that team stronger is good. Now if you're worried about zombies (Nova and iGrok as well), then you should probably start analysing our posts. We have made enough of them and have been rather transparent. Do you think we're scum?

/Acro


I want to make *everybody* stronger. I don't want to put a disproportionate amount of strength in any one specific player. You're distorting my position.

Yet you seem opposed to drawing cards. So far Gonzaw has claimed he can get benefits from discarding. We get a benefit from discarding. That's 2 players. Everybody else strengthens their hand. Next turn, there's probably a lot of land coming anybody who plays basic lands in their deck. That strengthens everybody further.

What alternative plan do you have for your mana?


i'm not opposed to drawing cards, it would just be better for me (and I think for the rest of town) to do it turn2 so we have to discard less. If it really would be better to do it today then let's go, but I'm not convinced that it's the best decision for the town. But I'm kind of reconsidering that if it makes it likely that we could play that "get all your basic lands" card.


What else would you spend your mana on?

fertile ground or wild growth

Pro tip: you can play both. Why enchants over elves? What deck you running?
Clockwork Hydra
Profile Joined January 2013
Uzbekistan442 Posts
January 29 2013 22:49 GMT
#525
Was about to say that we have no clue, but we do: we reckon it would be unfair for us, gonzaw, prom, marv, snb, greymist and igrok to all be town. Based on that, I'd say at least one hydra is scum.
Clockwork Hydra
Profile Joined January 2013
Uzbekistan442 Posts
January 29 2013 22:49 GMT
#526
That was our joint opinion, btw.
Clockwork Hydra
Profile Joined January 2013
Uzbekistan442 Posts
January 29 2013 22:50 GMT
#528
Though manually balancing games is for wussies.

Real men RNG

~dandel
Clockwork Hydra
Profile Joined January 2013
Uzbekistan442 Posts
January 29 2013 22:55 GMT
#531
On January 30 2013 07:50 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
That was out theory as well. Which of those hydras are you guys most worried about? i.e. where do your suspicions rest in that group?

You will get that info in a bit. We have an opinion, but posting it is counterproductive at the moment.

/Acro
Clockwork Hydra
Profile Joined January 2013
Uzbekistan442 Posts
January 29 2013 23:26 GMT
#543
On January 30 2013 08:23 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Anyways, this means we can do any shit we want without scum communicating with each other freely!

Come on post post post post, it may be the only time we can catch them like this!

Oh baby!


~This important post is brought to you
~by
~dandel
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