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On January 29 2013 09:28 BinOnFire wrote:
How long do people have to contribute mana for Join Forces effects?
I'll be leaving in an hour and a half. If fewer than 5 other players have voiced an opinion on Minds Aglow by then, I'm going to hold onto it for now until everyone is aware of it.
While our deck can REALLY profit from Minds Aglow, we can profit exponentially more if it is cast next turn. We are willing to commit all of next turn's mana to this.
Also, don't forget that drawing lots of cards just leads to discarding lots of cards: so either have a point with discarding, or do it later when hands are emptier and people have more mana available.
However: if other people have nothing to do with their mana this turn, a Minds Aglow this turn with us not contributing will set us up for a fucking giant start.
/Acro & Dandy
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On January 29 2013 09:37 BinOnFire wrote:
Alternatively, I can mulligan again and hope to find Collective Voyage, which I'd argue is a much stronger turn 1 play. I'm not sure what the odds on that would be, but I think it's
1 - ((4 ncr 0)(56 ncr 5))/(60 ncr 5) ~= 30% of hitting one or more copies.
MG
Just a heads up: we are running 0 basic lands 
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And mulliganing down from 4 is pretty suicidal. The chance of actually drawing collective voyage is really tiny. It's
1 - 56/60 * 55/59 * 55/58) = 17.5% and leaves you with absolutely nothing else to do. Much better to risk it with Minds Aglow and hope you DRAW a Collective Voyage.
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In regards to minds aglow VS collective voyage, for OUR deck, minds aglow would be far superior.
As we said, we'd be willing to contribute all 3 mana to it next turn. So we'd only need a couple extra after that (since otherwise you guys' hands will overflow too much - again: WE wouldn't mind that though. I just doubt it's practical for everybody )
We can also to contribute to it this turn if need be, but would prefer it next turn.
~dandel
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On January 29 2013 09:40 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 09:28 BinOnFire wrote:
How long do people have to contribute mana for Join Forces effects? In this game, Join Forces effects are triggered simultaneously. It lasts until the end of the Main Phase.
Does this mean that it will resolve at the end of the main phase? Or does this mean that as soon as someone contributes mana, you will allow everybody to do whatever the joint forces effect is (search for a basic land, or draw a card)?
If it resolves at the end of the main phase and everybody draws a load of cards after casting time is over, then Minds Aglow is kind of useless this turn: it will allow everybody to draw lots of cards that they can't play and will have to discard in the end phase.
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I'd imagine this game does the same as magic: discard until you're at 7 cards at end of turn.
~dandel
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On January 29 2013 10:12 Aperture Science wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 10:10 BinOnFire wrote:On January 29 2013 10:07 Aperture Science wrote:
So, Mind's Aglow looks completely useless. Awesome.
Scumhunting is in Flavor. Magic Discussion is not. It's an investment for turn 3 - the details are on the last page, if you didn't catch them. What else would you be doing this turn, anyways? I'd be scumhunting. I don't want to draw 1/3 of my deck T1. Anyone running Mill is going to have a field day with the rest of us. (I'm not claiming MILLER - haha, get it?)
Why so negative, igrok?
1. Anybody running mill (or any other combo deck) in this setup must be fucking insane. Mill is terrible in general in multiplayer and even worse in this setup (unless it's some kind of infinite combo deal that can mill everybody, but that was explicitly forbidden).
2. As MG stated: you draw a million cards this turn, hold onto your Darksteel Cololssus and your Eldrazi. Next turn you get all the lands in your deck. Turn 3, you just play them giant monsters out of your hand. Who cares about an 8/8 scum creature when there's enough stuff to blow everybody up a thousand times over?
Your instant negativity rubs me the wrong way.
/Acro
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On January 29 2013 10:27 BinOnFire wrote:
Players who don't contribute mana don't get the effect. We'd definitely want everyone in on it, both because it increases the bonus for everyone, and because the entire point of this line of play is to get everyone to an equally stronger position by T3. It would be actively bad to have a few players left out of it.
Huh? That's not what the card says...
http://magiccards.info/cmd/en/51.html
Dredged up something on a forum which also disagrees with that.
First each player gets the choice to pay mana.
Second each player draws X cards, where X is equal to the total mana paid by everybody.
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Okay so here's the thing:
We are running Zombie Infestation.
(this badboy right here:+ Show Spoiler +)
For that reason, we would have prefered Minds aglow next turn (and given all 3 mana, too!), but it seems like like it would be more beneficial to town in general this turn, than delaying until next turn 
So if it's going to be today, we would REALLY like to cast zombie infestation this turn (instead of contributing mana). And of course still ask everyone else to use as much mana as humanly possible!
Not just the lurkers/scum! Everyone! Think of it as a group project!
I promise we're not crazy (or scum)
~dandel (with acro's consent)
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Was there a mayor election I missed?
~dandel
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That was a nice way of saying "who appointed this guy boss?"
~dandel
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On January 29 2013 10:34 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 10:12 Aperture Science wrote:On January 29 2013 10:10 BinOnFire wrote:On January 29 2013 10:07 Aperture Science wrote:
So, Mind's Aglow looks completely useless. Awesome.
Scumhunting is in Flavor. Magic Discussion is not. It's an investment for turn 3 - the details are on the last page, if you didn't catch them. What else would you be doing this turn, anyways? I'd be scumhunting. The question is not "What else would you be doing this turn?"->"I'd be scumhunting" but rather "What else should you be doing right now?"->"I am scumhunting" Post reasoning for thinking someone is scum now. Everybody do this too please I'll start Stutters: blabla SuckTheDeck: blablabla Aperture Science: blablablue RockHydra: blub blub blub We are still missing Cros+Nova, maybe they are both the scumteam and everything I posted is irrelevant  /G
To expound on my fellow's head. Your try-hard "scumhunting" is not useful, and in fact is a detraction. It made us wonder whether you are a try-hard townie or a scum derailing the discussion about minds aglow, which was far more interesting than you analyzing people's first posts in the thread.
Your last sentence says it all, pretty much. Nobody's entry into the thread was particularly noteworthy and you nattering on about it is just a distraction. If you were actually hunting for scum, that would be fine, but that's not what is happening. You are telling everybody else to post lists. That is the opposite of scumhunting. It's giving your conclusions. I have no conclusions and scumhunting is what I do to find things out.
Now lets stop hogging the thread and let other people make some posts. I agree with you that I particularly want to hear from Marv, but it's 2 AM in England, so chances are he's asleep. Same for Nova.
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EBWOP fellow head. And I am, of course, Acro, expounding on Dandel's earlier post.
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I have a far simpler solution though:
Those people that rely on basic lands a lot should provide the mana now.
Since they are the ones that want bin to draw the other card.
Those people that have nothing vital to play now, should provide mana too.
If you look scummy, you can provide mana if you want to look townie.
I have something quite vital to play, so I would prefer to play that.
And it's not like you can actually force people to do so.
All actions will come from one's own will and I don't like how you suggest the use of "force".
In fact, scum have a far higher interest in doing as you say, as their lacking board development can be made up with the mafia creature. And if it allows them to funnel town into policy attacks on scummys/lurkers, I'd imagine scum would follow you without much resistance.
~dandel
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we are not running any basic lands.
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On January 29 2013 11:19 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 11:00 Clockwork Hydra wrote:Okay so here's the thing: We are running Zombie Infestation. (this badboy right here: + Show Spoiler +) For that reason, we would have prefered Minds aglow next turn (and given all 3 mana, too!), but it seems like like it would be more beneficial to town in general this turn, than delaying until next turn So if it's going to be today, we would REALLY like to cast zombie infestation this turn (instead of contributing mana). And of course still ask everyone else to use as much mana as humanly possible! Not just the lurkers/scum! Everyone! Think of it as a group project! I promise we're not crazy (or scum) ~dandel (with acro's consent) Haven't we established that using as much mana as possible isn't entirely helpful? Drawing is great but if we mill ourselves were ditching a lot of potentially powerful cards when we discard to seven since we won't have mana. Since you haven't mentioned it, what are your thoughts on forcing the scummiest players into contributing their mana for it?
The more cards the better from our point of view. When Bin disclosed Minds Aglow we secretly hoped for > 10 cards. 15+ would be ideal: play land and ZI. Discard 20 cards to make 10 zombies. Next turn, kill scum. Turn 3, kill second scum. If failed on either attempt, die to scum monster in N3.
So, in short, forcing "scummy players" to use their mana is great (and forcing all other players to do so is great as well), if we can find those scummy players in enough time and they cooperate. If they are in fact scum, why would they cooperate?
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On January 29 2013 11:38 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 11:34 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
I have a far simpler solution though:
Those people that rely on basic lands a lot should provide the mana now.
Since they are the ones that want bin to draw the other card.
Those people that have nothing vital to play now, should provide mana too.
If you look scummy, you can provide mana if you want to look townie.
I have something quite vital to play, so I would prefer to play that.
And it's not like you can actually force people to do so.
All actions will come from one's own will and I don't like how you suggest the use of "force".
In fact, scum have a far higher interest in doing as you say, as their lacking board development can be made up with the mafia creature. And if it allows them to funnel town into policy attacks on scummys/lurkers, I'd imagine scum would follow you without much resistance.
~dandel marv here. s&b has been hilariously absent of late and was supposed to teach me magic and hasn't. I plan to nag him though. In other news, why are you telling mafia how they might look more townie? I don't understand the motivation behind saying what I bolded at all. You're doing an awful lot of talking about what mafia should and will be doing.
Merely stating the truth.
What would you do in regards to it? In the purely hypothetical case you were scum of course.
Also, you don't post much. What gives?
~dandel
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On January 29 2013 11:48 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Okay, you never mentioned this part of your plan before.
It could make sense, but you are not confirmed town so making other townies discard so many cards, and giving you so many monsters is not that good of a plan until you are very likely town, or at least we can control your monsters somehow.
For that, I think we should wait until D2 or a little bit later for this plan of yours.
Isn't that what we said from the start? D2 is better from our point of view? On the other hand, that's an entire turn delay. May not be worth it for other players: the faster we can get the cards, the faster the basic land search happens, which is the real jumpstart for most people.
Also >20 cards, and having to discard so many of them may not benefit town as a whole, while having 3/4 cards has less risk, and does benefit town (or it appears so)
Oh, I agree. We can only reason from our own deck's point of view. Other people might get completely screwed by having to discard over 10 cards and it might be a bad idea in general. But we get lots of zombies, which benefits town.
Show nested quote +So, in short, forcing "scummy players" to use their mana is great (and forcing all other players to do so is great as well), if we can find those scummy players in enough time and they cooperate. Yes this is a huge part of the plan, so better let's get to it shouldn't we? If they don't cooperate, then we don't get additional cards. Big woopity woop. At worst another townie who could have withheld his mana until the end could use his mana for the additional cards, and that scum will be held under scrutiny
Rhetorical questions...
It is beyond obvious why scum would cooperate with the plan. If they think it helps them to look townie (and that town credit is more useful than whatever they would otherwise cast). We know that. You know that. Marv knows that. This whole discussion is stupid.
Also this seems rather contradictory with your previous "Scum would obviously follow you" comment: Show nested quote +In fact, scum have a far higher interest in doing as you say, as their lacking board development can be made up with the mafia creature. And if it allows them to funnel town into policy attacks on scummys/lurkers, I'd imagine scum would follow you without much resistance. So what do you think is more likely? Scum following me or not following me? Make up your mind and explain your contradiction
Two players with different opinions and ideas sharing one account. WHAT IS THIS MADNESS?
Also I'd gladly kill marv/S&B considering their "lurky not into the game that much" behaviour right now.
I think this should be considered until they start giving more of a damn.
/G
Finally, we agree on something.
Also, in your other post you said I was opposed to scumhunting. I suggest you actually LOOK at my filter. I have not posted my conclusions, but that is not the same as not scumhunting. Additionally, I think people's opinion about magic-related stuff gives perfectly good clues to their alignment. Discussing PLAYS is not the same as pointless setup speculation. Plays can be pro-town or anti-town. And reasons for being for or against something can also be pro- or anti-town. It is good information and I am using it to form opinions... aka scumhunting.
/Acro
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On January 29 2013 12:15 BinOnFire wrote:
CH
They/you spent a LOT of time bickering about useless stuff (not just setup, but completely pointless stuff about setup)
Then your ENTIRE page 2 filter is whether minds aglow is good, WHICH IT IS.
Hrmmm.. you on the other hand have asked our opinion on whether you should cast it. So you are now blaiming US for your discussion of magic stuff.
And yes, we are childishly excited about the prospect of dropping billions of zombies on the field in turn 1.
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On January 29 2013 12:27 Oatsmaster wrote:
All plays that involve people drawing cards are good for EVERYBODY.
CH, explain how scum would not want to contribute mana regardless?
Also, if you say only the scummy players contribute mana, you are giving scum a free out to 'prove' that they are town
Please let Gonzaw do the talking again, you clearly have misunderstood everything.
1. Balance of power. Currently there are 7 townies and 2 scum (assuming standard balance for a 9player game). That means if townies and scum draw cards, town draws 3.5 times the amount of cards.
Furthermore, at the moment, scum has an 8/8 creature and town has jack shit. Jumpstarting 7 town decks is worth FAR more than jumpstarting 2 scum decks (assuming scum don't have "instantly kill everybody" decks). In fact, one of the reasons for running the deck we are running is because it comes online quickly and can start doing stuff. Sure, this is good for scum, but it is absolutely necessary for town, who has a ticking time bomb under their seat.
2. I don't even know what you're trying to say in the second part. I am not giving scum a way of proving their towniness. Nowhere in ANY of my posts have I even implied that that is the case (and I don't think dandel has either).
/Acro
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EPT
