EPTAnd yes, I am working off the assumption that scum didn't shoot themselves in the face for 8 damage.
/Acro
[T] MTG Mini Mafia II - Page 13
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And yes, I am working off the assumption that scum didn't shoot themselves in the face for 8 damage. /Acro | ||
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On February 02 2013 05:56 RockHydra wrote: Depending on available blockers, I have an ink-eyes I can ninjutsu next turn: 5 damage ~Hopeless So total of 7. This ninja deck is going places! | ||
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On February 02 2013 06:58 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: srsly? he could have done all that stuff during the attack phase, after we had all committed to a plan that wouldn't work anyways like, you really want to base your game play on the hope that both he and his scum buddy are terrible at mtg and also don't pay attention to the game at all? Yes it's a far better solution to yell at scum what they are supposed to do from the rooftops. Repeatedly. You're right! Such a genius! ~dandel | ||
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Even if Cross does another soul syphon. So.... GG ~dandel | ||
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/Acro | ||
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Go stutters! The entire game* hangs on your ability to make a bear! *slight exaggeration ~dandel | ||
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On February 02 2013 07:18 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Oh and for that, Stutters should make bear now. Go stutters! The entire game* hangs on your ability to make a bear! *slight exaggeration ~dandel Once again, I disagree with my hydra head. I think Stutters should do what he wants. If he thinks a 2/2 bear helps town, then great. If something else, great too: he's the only one who knows his deck and how it can contribute. Word of caution, though: I'm not sure a howling mine is a good idea, because we have to consider the serious situation where Aperture is scum and will "go off" tomorrow and deck us all, play an infinite number of Eldrazi or do something else fucked up. The presence of Epic Experiment AND Mind's Desire in his GY point towards a pretty funky combo where he just dumps down a giant list of instants and sorceries which ends in 200 damage to everybody else in the game. "I win". Dandel was saying we should blow up his braids. I don't quite see what 2 red mana in his upkeep can do (can only play instants, not sorceries), but it's something to keep under consideration. I WOULD like Aperture to tell us how his deck is supposed to work and what he needs to "go off", so we can estimate the threat he likely poses. /Acro | ||
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On February 02 2013 09:11 gonzaw wrote: I think it might be a good idea to have Aperture just out his whole hand and deck to us lol. I don't really want to see him play an "anti-town" card later out of nowhere that can fuck us up, without us knowing first or him lying about it and thus confirming himself as scum. I know I kind of tried to "force" this the previous game with Grey...and he just straight up refused...and then he was misslynched....and then town lost the game; but it might be a good idea to enforce it today Answer the question about what his deck is about would be a good way too. [hr Anyways Aperture, the only other hydra I could see as scum (which I don't actually do) is Rock. So.....either convince us why the fuck there'd be 2 "non-hydra non-vets" scum in this game (which we already stated had less than 9% chance of happening, hell I'd even say less than 5% considering the hydra/vet balance thing) [also actually making a good case against Stutters/Nova and being very convincing about it], or start making a convincing case against Rock, which should be very convincing. Answering questions and giving a crap about whether town can kill a confirmed scum or not would be a good start as well. /G While I don't necessarily disagree with you on Aperture, you are taking the 8.33% thing for a hydra being scum ENTIRELY out of context. Pick ANY 3 players AT RANDOM. The chance that the 2 scummers are in there, is 8.33%. Ergo, you cannot use statistics as an argument for why a Hydra is scum, just as you'd be laughed at for claiming it is statistically unlikely that the 2 scum are in the top 3 of the signup list. Meta-analysis on game balance is an entirely different kettle of fish, however. /Acro | ||
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For instance, I agree with you that point 31 could really do with some explanation from Stutters, so you get brownie points for finding it. However, you give him +8 scum points for that. The number seems entirely arbitrary. You then find something, I'd consider a town point at point 33, but give him -1 scum points for that. The points seem entirely arbitrary, so the whole PBPA "system" is not actually any more systematic than when I quote shit and say why it's scummy. So while the PBPA points out some stuff in Stutters' filter that I think warrants a closer look at Stutters, the formulaic system means that I can not actually get a whiff of your OWN alignment from it, which is one of the main things I use people making cases FOR. We both agreed that we don't think you'd do this any differently as scum or as town. When I pointed out that for number 36, Greymist could just have labeled it "soft-defending scum" and given him + points, Dandel replied that throwing in a couple of -1s here and there doesn't really matter when you throw +2s and +8s the other way. If you want to cook the books, this is the perfect way of doing it. /Acro | ||
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On February 02 2013 10:59 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: I will give the point about using RNG though. I think Artanis could have made that clearer at some point, but well /G Why should he make that clear? We're supposed to be catching scum, not metagaming the host. This goes for almost all mafia games here: do it, but do it at your own peril. | ||
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 Gonzaw got my point pretty much. I also work with points on my scumometer and townometer. However, on mine you can either score a point for a post, an overall stance or anything I feel at the time is scummy, respectively townie. Generally, those points are only really used as a summary for when I need a quick opinion and don't mean jack shit to anybody (not even me when I go through stuff in detail). I am therefore rather interested in HOW you quantify scummy shit. Please explain to me how X is worth 8 points, Y is worth -1 and Z is worth 3. Specifically I am interested in how the overall summary means anything at all. If I were to post my current scum and townometer of Suck, it'd have more scumpoints. However, I have revised my earlier thoughts and think there's a decent chance they're town. That's because shit like scum points for early posts are "worth less" when I end up evaluating them now. As you say, it's all subjective and thus you posting the analysis kinda means nothing. The format makes it particularly hard to make sense of whether you are focusing on bullshit reasons that are not indicative of alignment or points that I think might be. Anyway, my scumhunting seems to be completely different from yours overall, because I tend to be more interested in reactions to pressure and overall motivation than PBPA, unless PBPA brings me something fantastic. If I don't make sense, blame beer. /Acro | ||
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On February 02 2013 23:04 Hopeless1der wrote:  I am totally okay with you doing something too. Who is Xfire's partner in crime and why? /Acro | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [preamble] + Here is my take on the matter. We have established that your deck runs Storm, and probably a rather large amount of red mana acceleration in order to set off some unknown combo. Presumably your combo is capable of either outright killing everybody, or at least killing a number of people, otherwise your deck is useless and neither of you seem like the type of player to make a useless deck. All combo decks tend to have 1 thing in common: they play a large amount of library manipulation stuff, either in the form of extra draw or in the form of tutors (handily calling Intuition and its clones tutors here) and usually both. Minds Aglow sounds like the bees fucking knees for a combo deck. So why is Minds Aglow bad for scum iGrok? Because card advantage. According to iGrok's own words, his deck has a slow mana base and will supposedly take a long time before it can go off. In that time, town can use the massive card advantage gained from Minds Aglow to ramp up their own decks. A scum iGrok is thus best served by town being stalled as much as possible. In the meantime, the scum beast can take out serious threats, while he gets the main combo pieces online through other means than Minds Aglow. So, with the preamble out of the way where we establish that Minds Aglow is good for you, we go to your actions in the game: On January 29 2013 10:07 Aperture Science wrote: So, Mind's Aglow looks completely useless. Awesome. Scumhunting is in Flavor. Magic Discussion is not. Except, iGrok is apparently a rather fervent MTG player and knows the value of shit like card advantage and should immediately recognize how with 7 townies and 2 scummers, Minds Aglow leads to insane card advantage for town. It also cannot be explained as being bad from his own deck's perspective (see preamble). So... iGrok, why did you say Minds Aglow looks completely useless, when, it quite obviously isn't? 2 posts later, he has a new reason for why Minds Aglow is bad. Note, it is not useless now, it is now scary: On January 29 2013 10:12 Aperture Science wrote: I'd be scumhunting. I don't want to draw 1/3 of my deck T1. Anyone running Mill is going to have a field day with the rest of us. (I'm not claiming MILLER - haha, get it?) This is elaborated on a bit later (skipping the first elaboration, because the second one is a direct answer to my doubts about it at the time): + Show Spoiler [explanation 1] + On January 29 2013 10:41 Aperture Science wrote: I'm not being negative, I'm pointing out rather basic fatal flaws in people's thinking. There's some new players here, not everyone played Coldsnap. You're just wrong. There's a deck that could entirely mill out 2, maybe 3 players T2 or 3 if we each draw 18 cards. Brain Freeze + Mana-Instants/Phyrexian Mana cards. You all put down 10 lands turn 2, play 5 spells each, and he mills 200 cards. which kills 7 players. You want to do that? End the game on turn 2? I thought about playing it but I'd rather play mine because its more fun, hence my whole "lets play fun decks" campaign. Read what I said above. But even if you go ahead and do cast voyage. Who the hell is running 10 BASIC lands when they can pull from ALL the Duals, Shocks, Fetches, Filters, Taps, and Checks? You realize its BASIC LANDS ONLY right? (That last part isn't for you, its for everyone else). You assuming you've got MTG figured out rubs me the wrong way. But that doesn't mean I think you're scum. Odds are you're town, you just didn't think it through. You've gotta realize that in a game of no counters and where everyone shares a turn, busting out 10 lands for everyone is just asking for a storm deck to kill us all. + Show Spoiler [explanation 2] + On January 30 2013 00:43 Aperture Science wrote: What I'm advocating (before anyone says "waaah all you ever do is tell us not to play things") is not to play things that could help scum. Lets see what we already know: Someone can have 10+ Zombies out T1 if you play Mind's Aglow, and can swing with them T2, killing someone. At least one person is running Fatties. Honestly I'd be happier with Fatties than a dozen Zombies. @Zeb, Artanis might not have thought that someone would play mind's aglow for 10 T1. I know he's okay with being able to combo out one player by turn 2, which is what cheerio storm does - unless it draws a dozen extra cards, then it combos everyone. Note the entirely different mindsets between iGrok and us. iGrok knows he runs a storm combo himself, yet uses the idea of Storm's presence to try to scare people, without disclosing ANY information abut his deck. Now either drawing lots of cards is good for a Storm combo deck and we should be scared, in which case iGrok should be saying "if you give me lots of cards, I will be able to combo and go off sooner", OR drawing cards is not good for a Storm deck, in which case we have no reason to be scared. Instead iGrok fear mongers with the idea of Storm without ever saying that he himself will BE that nasty player who will combo us all to death. Now lets compare that to the two townies who know Minds Aglow will do awesome shit for them: Bin. Bin needs lots of basic lands and he knows that the best way of getting them into play fast is by casting a big Minds Aglow and then a big Collective Voyage. While he doesn't initially specify what he will do with all that land, it was to be expected that it'd result in something big and nasty (I was expecting fatties, but Drain Life works okay). CH: we know we're running ZI. We are frank and open with the fact that Minds Aglow will give us a giant boost and after a bit of deliberating disclose exactly how a Minds Aglow will make our deck big and scary. In both cases, all the information is laid out on the table, allowing the OTHER players to decide for themselves whether this is a good thing or a bad thing. iGrok, in contrast, deliberately withheld this information in favour of fearmongering. So, I have explained the scum motivation for this quite clearly. There are some things, however, in AS' playstyle that make me wonder. I really want AS to explain his behaviour. Both in response to Minds Aglow and in response to Poster's original case. /Acro + Show Spoiler [Dandel's blessing] + [13:55:26] Acro: poasted [14:01:56] Acro: am i making a big deal out of a tiny issue? [14:02:02] Acro: or does what i say make sense? [14:03:19] Dandel Ion TL Mafia: it's fine imo [14:03:24] Dandel Ion TL Mafia: good points and all [14:03:33] Dandel Ion TL Mafia: and i'd really like them to respond to it [14:03:41] Dandel Ion TL Mafia: so I give it my blessing | ||
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On February 03 2013 01:57 Aperture Science wrote: Stutters already knows what I'm about to accuse him of, so his defense above should be completely ignored. Why are you telling us to ignore his defense? You afraid we might disagree with you? /Acro | ||
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/Acro | ||
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On January 30 2013 09:14 Stutters695 wrote: Agreed with this actually. Why would you give me a free pass for a day? From your position I wouldn't consider me town yet. Why would you give me a free pass instead of questioning me to force more out of me. If this was anybody who had actually played a scum game before, I might agree with you, but Stutters has rolled town in all 6 of his prior games (4 of which were newbie). If there was the possibility that Marv was in the scumQT with Stutters, I might ALSO agree with you that he was being heavily coached and this means nothing, but barring a complete mindfuck that is impossible. Stutters is blatantly drawing attention to himself with this post. He is walking up to one of the towniest townies in the game, who, as scum he knows is 100% town and doesn't have the lingering doubts of other townies that Gonzaw might just be faking it all. He then says "POKE, pay attention to me!" for no fucking reason at all. There are very few scum who feel comfortable drawing attention to themselves and they are invariably known as some of the best scum players on the forum. Stutters is either an absolute natural at playing scum, or he is town. PS. He doesn't just do it that once either. He pokes you too for no reason except to get your reaction... and later pokes me for, in his own mind, letting him off the hook when I had said I wouldn't do that. Now he is either a fucking mastermind scum in his very first game as scum ever, or he is a townie towner. /Acro | ||
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On February 03 2013 02:28 Aperture Science wrote: No smartass, but he's had almost a full day to prepare a defense. So what? You've had 2 full days to prepare a defense against Poster's case, yet haven't come up with anything that resemples a plausible town explanation for your play. I don't ignore posts because the poster had more time to make them. I judge them based on their content. /Acro | ||
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Dandel thinks you're town for some reason. Mind telling me why he thinks that (he's afk and I can't ask him)? /Acro | ||
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On February 03 2013 03:26 Stutters695 wrote: Artanis(sp?) did some balancing to the deck but you know pretty much what's in it. He added a mox emerald and a couple other things (I'd have to check my PMs) but where are you getting five mana from? I have three. If I was at five mana I would be rolling, but when my initial pulls were all three mana plus, I haven't had a lot of options. I have played the deck poorly but I've said what's in my hand of value. What possible benefit would I get from being so weak in a scum position? What cards do I possibly have that once XFire dies would let me win 1v8 off of my "deck lies?" How is that point even remotely scummy (if I was lying, which you should know isn't true). Stutters: Type this into the board thread: ##Activate New Frontiers: search for Forest x2 If you prefer, you can search for swamps or some other basic land. /Acro | ||
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On February 03 2013 03:17 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: There's a thing about Xfire that strikes me as odd though. I'm discussing it with Prome first, but I want to see if you guys figure it out. Plus another thing interesting about him and his scumbuddy most likely /G If you are talking about the double wifom burger, I disagree with your conclusions. In fact, I disagree with any conclusions unless it is "ignore the shit out of those posts". | ||
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