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11589 Posts
I disagree completely with Eywa's case and I think it was intentionally misrepresentative of Palmar's play. His reaction to Palmar and I voting for him has been to straight up OMGUS the both of us. I fully expect his case on me to be of a similar vein to his case on Palmar. The fact that you even take this guy seriously is very disheartening.
Palmar has been playing at least with the appearance of having town's best interest in mind. He has ignored distractions like Vivax and Eywa (for the most part) in favor of giving his reads on players. His interaction with bugs was wholeheartedly an attempt to get him to post more about his reads, as was his interaction with me. To say he is deserving of suspicion for this is reaching at best.
Vivax is, as I said, a distraction. His intentions could have been good, but the results of his actions were almost certainly bad. He has claimed VT (pointless), attacked stutters, and attacked bugs while still claiming his suspicion of stutters. None of this makes a lot of sense. So at best he is useless, at worst a mafia mucking the thread up.
But I don't understand why you care about my thoughts on YOUR thoughts on Vivax. I have my read on him. You have yours. Useless should have been enough for you to understand I don't see him as a priority.
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Let's kill zelblade, let's kill zelblade, everyone thinks he's scum, everyone thinks he's scum!
Let's kil zelblade, let's kill zelblade, it sure is a shame, that he's not getting-any-votes HEY!
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11589 Posts
I still want to kill Eywa but if you guys don't agree with me, and thus there is no lynch possibility, I'll vote for zelblade. He's a good lynch.
But seriously. Just wait. This case of his against me is gonna be golden.
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On December 20 2012 16:57 yamato77 wrote:
I disagree completely with Eywa's case and I think it was intentionally misrepresentative of Palmar's play. His reaction to Palmar and I voting for him has been to straight up OMGUS the both of us. I fully expect his case on me to be of a similar vein to his case on Palmar. The fact that you even take this guy seriously is very disheartening.
Palmar has been playing at least with the appearance of having town's best interest in mind. He has ignored distractions like Vivax and Eywa (for the most part) in favor of giving his reads on players. His interaction with bugs was wholeheartedly an attempt to get him to post more about his reads, as was his interaction with me. To say he is deserving of suspicion for this is reaching at best.
Vivax is, as I said, a distraction. His intentions could have been good, but the results of his actions were almost certainly bad. He has claimed VT (pointless), attacked stutters, and attacked bugs while still claiming his suspicion of stutters. None of this makes a lot of sense. So at best he is useless, at worst a mafia mucking the thread up.
But I don't understand why you care about my thoughts on YOUR thoughts on Vivax. I have my read on him. You have yours. Useless should have been enough for you to understand I don't see him as a priority.
Useless means he's useless. Town can be useless, so can scum. Useless isn't indicative of alignment. If he's useless and he's scum, we lynch him. Pretty straightforward. So, just saying he's useless doesn't say anything about what you actually think of him, alignment wise.
I care what you think of my thoughts because it can either show something wrong in my analysis, or help strengthen it by pointing out things I might have missed. Think of it as iterative scum hunting. It's better to work on a case and strengthen or disprove it than to just form a bunch of different cases and have everyone ignore what everyone else wrote. (Even though they're all copying each other anyways)
Palmar's contributions to the town are superficial at best right now. He's basically been going around talking about who he thinks is town, and been very tentative when it comes to naming scum. Telling everyone who your town reads are doesn't really help us catch scum. Instead, it undermines scumhunting, because Palmar is seen as a vet, and by making a list of people who he thinks we shouldn't lynch, he makes it more likely for other players who normally sheep him to just not bother looking into those players. Saying that he thinks a bunch of people are town doesn't serve a useful purpose as far as finding scum goes. It's better for people to come to their own conclusions, and then when someone makes a case, discuss it and if you think the person is town, bring up a defense then, when they're actually being considered for a lynch.
Then, when it comes to scum, he basically just says he agrees with a couple people, and doesn't actually make a thrust in any direction. At least with his town reads, he gave a little bit of explanation, but this is missing when it comes to who he thinks is scum. As well, his general tone in posts talking about who he thinks is scum is very tentative, which is in stark contrast to his posts talking about who he thinks is town.
So, to say that he warrants absolutely no suspicion is false, and only serves to make things easier for him if he's scum. Palmar absolutely deserves suspicion, as does everyone else in the game.
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On December 20 2012 09:31 debears wrote:
Ah, Palmar. Missed it :/
Anyways, you feel strong enough to base an entire scumread on one post you "didn't like" from me?
Also, if you bother to read Mario mini (I'm guessing you haven't), then you would realize I had to endure the retarded "kenpachi rule" shoutouts from SB the whole damn game.
Using Kenpachi rule for a scumread is fucking retarded. Completely. Fucking. Retarded. I stopped that shit before it could even get started
No I don't feel confident enough to lynch an active player based on that. I didn't like it, as I do not like this post, but I don't think it conclusively makes you scum.
I haven't read some random other games. I don't rely on meta outside of assuming certain things about people's ability to analyse and think critically. I don't try to compare people's play in 2 games so I haven't, and will not ever listen to any stupid argument that you've been a victim of something before. In fact I think you're more likely to be scum because you're trying to defend yourself using some random other game I don't care about.
And you don't need to "stop that shit". If you're active, reasonable and analytical, you will not be lynched based on anything as ridiculous as the kenpachi rule. But you seem overly concerned that you may still be, so that makes me think you're way too concerned about your own security.
I don't know... I'm not sure about you or Toad, so I'll ignore that storyline for now. I need to understand better what's going on there before I proceed.
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On December 20 2012 17:07 wherebugsgo wrote:
Let's kill zelblade, let's kill zelblade, everyone thinks he's scum, everyone thinks he's scum!
Let's kil zelblade, let's kill zelblade, it sure is a shame, that he's not getting-any-votes HEY!
Ok, let's do it then.
##Unvote: WBG
##Vote: Zelblade
Have you taken a look at Vivax yet?
Going to bed now. Hope you guys don't get angsty that I won't post for 12 more hours. 
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No I think we've seen enough from you.
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11589 Posts
Palmar what do you think of bugs?
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I think he could possibly be town. He's putting in a lot of effort, making some good reads. I know he's very good as scum so there's never a time to write him off as one, but for now there is absolutely no reason to worry about him at all.
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11589 Posts
I know you said you think Eywa's case is bad, so don't you think the people giving him town cred/agreeing with him seem pretty suspicious? Or do you just read them as bad town?
This is mostly a "how do you develop your reads" question more than me asking you for those reads.
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My lynch candidates, from most suspicious to least suspicious:
1) Mr. Wiggles
2) debears
3) zelblade
Mr. Wiggles
My earlier point about him coming back into the thread without any scumreads still stands. The 5-hour gap in his posts reinforces my suspicion that he was not scumhunting:
04:28 --- Wiggles makes post about Eywa that I found suspicious
04:54-5:37 --- Wiggles makes a series of relatively insignificant posts
05:51 --- I explain that I'm suspicious of Wiggles for not pushing scumreads
10:37 --- Wiggles responds with his scumreads
I thought his points about Zelblade and Vivax were reasonable. However, I didn't like what he said about Palmer (or more precisely how he said it):
+ Show Spoiler +
I'm not really liking Palmar's play either right now. I tend to agree with a decent amount of what Eywa said, and his recent posting isn't comforting. It seems mostly like he just wants WBG to take the lead. For example, instead of just voting for me, he asks WBG why we aren't lynching me, which I don't like. I'm not sure if I want to lynch him yet though, because I think Palmar's scum a lot of the time on Day 1, but I've found that if I give it an extra day or so, he's either able to show he's town, or you can just kill him because he's scum. That's held true in the past.
Also, he must be Santa Claus. He lives in the North, and spends all his time making lists and checking off who's been naughty or nice.
I think this is wishy-washy, non-committal, and fluffy. See the parts I bolded. Wiggles seems so unsure of what he thinks about Palmar that I don't see the town motivation for him posting anything about Palmar at all.
debears
I stated some slight suspicions of debears earlier, and he has since done nothing to make me think he is town.
On December 20 2012 07:12 debears wrote:
@scribs
The trap was seeing if toad (and i believe palmar and someone else) would keep pursuing his case on the kenpachi rule. You pointed it out about what really went down in Mario
His response to my initial suspicions was that he had been setting a trap for scum. Perhaps I'm misreading or something, but I don't see the trap at all. Nobody was pursuing a case on the kenpachi rule. And even if they were, I don't see how that implicates them as scum.
What I suspect happened is that debears realized that Palmar and I thought he was doing scummy things. So he essentially said, "I wasn't being scummy. I was purposely acting that way in order to lay a trap", which seems to be the go-to explanation for scummy/idiotic behavior nowadays, even though it makes no sense in this scenario.
Since then, debears has been spending a great amount of time questioning Toad. I agree with yamato that debears is not really going anywhere with this. I think it is abundantly clear to everyone that Toad is lazy, but I don't think that is very good evidence that he is scum.
In summary, I'm suspicious of debears because he
- asked some questions and backed down rather easily
- said he was laying a trap when I'm pretty sure that there was no trap
- has been IMO unproductively tunneling Toad
zelblade
I don't have a lot to say on zelblade. He hasn't posted very much. I agree with the points bugs made. In particular, I find it suspicious how zelblade (talking about Eywa) went from "pretty suspicious" to "leaning scum slightly on him for now, will wait for his case on whoever" over the course of one post.
I see upon refreshing that Wiggles has made a couple of posts that I have yet to analyze. I'll do it in the morning since I'm pretty tired right now and going to sleep.
I request that everybody has a good look at these three candidates, and give an opinion on them if you haven't already. I feel like it's been a pretty good D1 and I'm optimistic about lynching scum tomorrow. Night.
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On December 20 2012 17:58 yamato77 wrote:
I know you said you think Eywa's case is bad, so don't you think the people giving him town cred/agreeing with him seem pretty suspicious? Or do you just read them as bad town?
This is mostly a "how do you develop your reads" question more than me asking you for those reads.
I don't know Eywa. It's very possible he's a very dedicated scum player who recognized that attacking me is not a dangerous thing to do.
However, the simple explanation is that he's town. Since I don't know him I have to assume that he plays like a normal player, which means that his case is probably not malicious because of two things.
a) He put a lot of effort in it, more than I would expect someone who knows they're writing bullshit.
b) His case is full of confirmation biases. I get the feeling he decided I was scum, then bent every single one of my posts to fit his scum read on me. This is very hard to imitate if you're scum writing a case on a townie, but an easy mistake if you're just a wrong townie.
Regarding the people giving him town cred for it, it all depends on how they do it. Notice that both Wiggles and I are giving Eywa- townie points, but we're doing it in a completely different fashion.
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[QUOTE]On December 20 2012 17:27 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
[QUOTE]On December 20 2012 16:57 yamato77 wrote:
I disagree completely with Eywa's case and I think it was intentionally misrepresentative of Palmar's play. His reaction to Palmar and I voting for him has been to straight up OMGUS the both of us. I fully expect his case on me to be of a similar vein to his case on Palmar. The fact that you even take this guy seriously is very disheartening.
Palmar has been playing at least with the appearance of having town's best interest in mind. He has ignored distractions like Vivax and Eywa (for the most part) in favor of giving his reads on players. His interaction with bugs was wholeheartedly an attempt to get him to post more about his reads, as was his interaction with me. To say he is deserving of suspicion for this is reaching at best.
Vivax is, as I said, a distraction. His intentions could have been good, but the results of his actions were almost certainly bad. He has claimed VT (pointless), attacked stutters, and attacked bugs while still claiming his suspicion of stutters. None of this makes a lot of sense. So at best he is useless, at worst a mafia mucking the thread up.
But I don't understand why you care about my thoughts on YOUR thoughts on Vivax. I have my read on him. You have yours. Useless should have been enough for you to understand I don't see him as a priority.[/QUOTE]
Useless means he's useless. Town can be useless, so can scum. Useless isn't indicative of alignment. If he's useless and he's scum, we lynch him. Pretty straightforward. So, just saying he's useless doesn't say anything about what you actually think of him, alignment wise.
I care what you think of my thoughts because it can either show something wrong in my analysis, or help strengthen it by pointing out things I might have missed. Think of it as iterative scum hunting. It's better to work on a case and strengthen or disprove it than to just form a bunch of different cases and have everyone ignore what everyone else wrote. (Even though they're all copying each other anyways)
Palmar's contributions to the town are superficial at best right now. He's basically been going around talking about who he thinks is town, and been very tentative when it comes to naming scum. Telling everyone who your town reads are doesn't really help us catch scum. Instead, it undermines scumhunting, because Palmar is seen as a vet, and by making a list of people who he thinks we shouldn't lynch, he makes it more likely for other players who normally sheep him to just not bother looking into those players. Saying that he thinks a bunch of people are town doesn't serve a useful purpose as far as finding scum goes. It's better for people to come to their own conclusions, and then when someone makes a case, discuss it and if you think the person is town, bring up a defense then, when they're actually being considered for a lynch.[quote]
Then, when it comes to scum, he basically just says he agrees with a couple people, and doesn't actually make a thrust in any direction. At least with his town reads, he gave a little bit of explanation, but this is missing when it comes to who he thinks is scum. As well, his general tone in posts talking about who he thinks is scum is very tentative, which is in stark contrast to his posts talking about who he thinks is town.
So, to say that he warrants absolutely no suspicion is false, and only serves to make things easier for him if he's scum. Palmar absolutely deserves suspicion, as does everyone else in the game. [/QUOTE]
Calling me tentative about calling people scum is a misrepresentation. The simple explanation is that there are far more townies in the game than there are scum, so most people I give my thoughts on are going to end up as town or tentative town reads. I think it's pretty clear to everyone who I think is scum, at least to anyone reading the thread.
Also, what's with the fear tactics? Why shouldn't I share my town reads, do you honestly think that people will mindlessly sheep my reads if I'm wrong and bad? I tend to call people stupid in mafia games, but clearly I have more faith in people than you do.
The eliminating townies and lynching into the rest is a tactic I've been using for a long time, but I do admit I'm probably being more public with it than I normally am. But I don't see a problem with that.
Anyway, you're misrepresenting my play so far, I did not like your big post with no conclusion about Eywa and I, and I think you have not contributed anything meaningful to this town. The fact you somehow have a scumread on me when I am playing one of the more townie games I've ever had doesn't help your case either.
I think you should hang tonight
##Unvote
##Vote Mr. Wiggles
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Format fail: EBWOP
On December 20 2012 17:27 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 16:57 yamato77 wrote:
I disagree completely with Eywa's case and I think it was intentionally misrepresentative of Palmar's play. His reaction to Palmar and I voting for him has been to straight up OMGUS the both of us. I fully expect his case on me to be of a similar vein to his case on Palmar. The fact that you even take this guy seriously is very disheartening.
Palmar has been playing at least with the appearance of having town's best interest in mind. He has ignored distractions like Vivax and Eywa (for the most part) in favor of giving his reads on players. His interaction with bugs was wholeheartedly an attempt to get him to post more about his reads, as was his interaction with me. To say he is deserving of suspicion for this is reaching at best.
Vivax is, as I said, a distraction. His intentions could have been good, but the results of his actions were almost certainly bad. He has claimed VT (pointless), attacked stutters, and attacked bugs while still claiming his suspicion of stutters. None of this makes a lot of sense. So at best he is useless, at worst a mafia mucking the thread up.
But I don't understand why you care about my thoughts on YOUR thoughts on Vivax. I have my read on him. You have yours. Useless should have been enough for you to understand I don't see him as a priority. Useless means he's useless. Town can be useless, so can scum. Useless isn't indicative of alignment. If he's useless and he's scum, we lynch him. Pretty straightforward. So, just saying he's useless doesn't say anything about what you actually think of him, alignment wise. I care what you think of my thoughts because it can either show something wrong in my analysis, or help strengthen it by pointing out things I might have missed. Think of it as iterative scum hunting. It's better to work on a case and strengthen or disprove it than to just form a bunch of different cases and have everyone ignore what everyone else wrote. (Even though they're all copying each other anyways) Palmar's contributions to the town are superficial at best right now. He's basically been going around talking about who he thinks is town, and been very tentative when it comes to naming scum. Telling everyone who your town reads are doesn't really help us catch scum. Instead, it undermines scumhunting, because Palmar is seen as a vet, and by making a list of people who he thinks we shouldn't lynch, he makes it more likely for other players who normally sheep him to just not bother looking into those players. Saying that he thinks a bunch of people are town doesn't serve a useful purpose as far as finding scum goes. It's better for people to come to their own conclusions, and then when someone makes a case, discuss it and if you think the person is town, bring up a defense then, when they're actually being considered for a lynch. Then, when it comes to scum, he basically just says he agrees with a couple people, and doesn't actually make a thrust in any direction. At least with his town reads, he gave a little bit of explanation, but this is missing when it comes to who he thinks is scum. As well, his general tone in posts talking about who he thinks is scum is very tentative, which is in stark contrast to his posts talking about who he thinks is town. So, to say that he warrants absolutely no suspicion is false, and only serves to make things easier for him if he's scum. Palmar absolutely deserves suspicion, as does everyone else in the game.
Calling me tentative about calling people scum is a misrepresentation. The simple explanation is that there are far more townies in the game than there are scum, so most people I give my thoughts on are going to end up as town or tentative town reads. I think it's pretty clear to everyone who I think is scum, at least to anyone reading the thread.
Also, what's with the fear tactics? Why shouldn't I share my town reads, do you honestly think that people will mindlessly sheep my reads if I'm wrong and bad? I tend to call people stupid in mafia games, but clearly I have more faith in people than you do.
The eliminating townies and lynching into the rest is a tactic I've been using for a long time, but I do admit I'm probably being more public with it than I normally am. But I don't see a problem with that.
Anyway, you're misrepresenting my play so far, I did not like your big post with no conclusion about Eywa and I, and I think you have not contributed anything meaningful to this town. The fact you somehow have a scumread on me when I am playing one of the more townie games I've ever had doesn't help your case either.
I think you should hang tonight
##Unvote
##Vote Mr. Wiggles
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Not to mention, since I'm sharing all my town reads and you think I'm probably scum, how do you think I would intend to back away from all these town reads when I would need to lynch the people I've given solid explanation of why I think are town?
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On December 20 2012 11:45 debears wrote:Here let me try it this way toad + Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 11:33 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 10:47 Toadesstern wrote:Okay done playing dota. Will go to bed but I've got some time to explain a little before I go to sleep because you seem to misunderstand what I posted so far: - I did not vote or consider you scummy for the Kenpachi rule at all. I voted you because you said "Telling people is a scummy thing! I totally did that once as town as well" which obviously doesn't make sense at all. When you said something along the lines of "I did that once before" I did not realize you were referring to the act of being *caught* by a Kenpachi-trap. I thought you were referring to the act of calling someone a VT as well and screwed up because you were town that game
- We had a bunch of people calling you weird around that time. No need to pressure vote when the point gets across without a vote. That's why I didn't vote you. Also because it's based on a screw up that could have (and it was...) poor wording of yours.
- My vote on WBG has NOTHING to do with his unwillingness to publicize all his reads. My vote on him has EVERYTHING to do with him laying a trap / reaction-fish while shouting "GUYS, don't tell anyone but what I just posted is just a trap, I'm only reactionfishing so don't worry if it looks weird". That defeats the purpose of his trap / reaction-fishing and is either incredibly defense / desperate if he really intended to reaction-fish (because he explained it although he should not have) or is sabbotaging his own "plan" because explaining people that you're laying traps / reaction-fishing is something that ruines the results.
- Generally speaking I'm more in favor of voting people I already played some games with. That's why my vote on WBG is so "fast" in comparison to the never-to-be vote on you.
- I didn't think you'd take the one you quoted from Chrono honestly. Yeah I remember that one but I was mafia that game. People usually don't give a shit about what people said while being mafia. Obviously if you know me you know that I'm an exception in that regard as I don't ever lie as mafia unless I have to (e.g. alignments, my own role) but I don't think you know me well enough to know that, so I thought I would have to search for another game and I didn't want to do that. And honestly I don't remember when I said something along those lines in a game the last time (except for Chrono). Those kind of statements are things you'll usually find pre-game, post-game or in a obs-QT because I don't like saying something as pointless as that in a game unless I have to because I'm asked about it.
- I'm someone who explains his thoughts as I go. That means my thought process is a combination of posts and I never reveal my entire reasoning for voting someone when voting someone. I want to discuss with people about it and that's usually better done the way I do it.
Has some downsides as people who aren't actively reading the thread keep on misinterpreting what I said because they take a single post of mine and look at it alone instead of looking at what actually happened in total.
That's a good way to figure out mafias as well if you ask me, just not for convincing people to vote the guy I am voting at all because as mentioned, people keep on not figuring out what I'm actually talking about half of the time. Or at least people are talking about useless stuff in my posts that are mere sidenotes to strenghten my point of view, reducing my argument to those sidenotes while ignoring my actual point I'm trying to make. Just like you just did with my explanation on WBG.
You never voted me..... 1) You never voted me. you're having an extremely tough time of keeping your story straight 2) You never mentioned that it was poor wording choice by you. You are making up this excuse in hindsight. If you thought it was a screw up in wording to begin with, why didn't you ask? Show nested quote +We had a bunch of people calling you weird around that time. No need to pressure vote when the point gets across without a vote. That's why I didn't vote you. Also because it's based on a screw up that could have (and it was...) poor wording of yours. You clearly attempted to establish that my actions were not coming from a townie mindset as shown by the following quotes + Show Spoiler +On December 19 2012 23:42 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 23:32 Palmar wrote:@sciberbia To add to your case, I had already noticed this post as you did: On December 19 2012 09:33 debears wrote:
I've done the same thing before. Claiming VT serves no useful purpose for town early d1 What sticks out to me here is the first part. The second part is obviously correct, but the first part is interesting, why is it included in this post? It's not necessary to drive the point across, it doesn't help debears press the issue, all there is to it is an attempt to convince that since this is what he does, we need not worry about him being mafia. I need to read more, but I think maybe we have a good option here for a lynch. yeah agree. Imo those 3 ones in conjunction are equally interessting, if not more so: Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:33 debears wrote:On December 19 2012 09:32 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
I don't think so, Morbidius. It looked pretty clear what he was trying to say to me.
Debears, did you just fall for a Kenpachi trap? I've done the same thing before. Claiming VT serves no useful purpose for town early d1 Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:33 iamperfection wrote:On December 19 2012 09:33 debears wrote:On December 19 2012 09:32 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
I don't think so, Morbidius. It looked pretty clear what he was trying to say to me.
Debears, did you just fall for a Kenpachi trap? I've done the same thing before. Claiming VT serves no useful purpose for town early d1 were you town or scum that game? He's basicly telling us to lynch the guy because he's doing something stupid with the reasoning that he once did the very same thing AS TOWN. Given his history he at least should be the guy telling people something the lines of "okay, this guy is retarded but sometimes townies are retarded. I did the same mistake in a recent game" given how people apparently love to defend other people... well or at least not bring it up the way he did. Instead he's insta-voting him with a flawed logic when he should be well aware of all that. On December 19 2012 23:57 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 23:50 iamperfection wrote:On December 19 2012 23:16 sciberbia wrote:Just woke up and reread everything. So far, I'm leaning scum on debears and iamperfection
debearsThe main thing I find suspicious about debears is that he twice seemed to be demanding explanation from other people, but then backed off rather easily when they failed to explain themselves. See spoiler for quotes + Show Spoiler +On December 19 2012 09:27 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:25 Vivax wrote:
Hi noobs,
I'm a Vanilla townie.
And I don't understand why yamato is so afraid of posting much. What. The. Fuck ##Vote Vivax On December 19 2012 09:33 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:32 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
I don't think so, Morbidius. It looked pretty clear what he was trying to say to me.
Debears, did you just fall for a Kenpachi trap? I've done the same thing before. Claiming VT serves no useful purpose for town early d1 On December 19 2012 09:50 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:48 Vivax wrote:
Hey debby, I've just finished writing a huge post in another game.
Admit it, you just voted for me cause I called you noob. I don't remember that at all actually. And mind explaining what pro-town purpose your claim has? On December 19 2012 09:51 Vivax wrote:Maybe later  On December 19 2012 09:52 debears wrote:
Fair enough Debears immediately voted Vivax and made a followup question. I found it odd that he backed off so easily. He recently unvoted Vivax as well. This suggests to me that he wanted to appear to be asking important questions, but didn't want to draw too much attention to himself. Next is his little back-and-forth with iamperfection: + Show Spoiler +On December 19 2012 09:41 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:40 iamperfection wrote:you remember everything from that game? dont be retarded the reason you remember you claiming vt is because it was you Eh. True. I would just think that SnB screaming "Kenpachi rule!!!" would have come across your brain Similar thing here. In the 1st quote, debears seems to be implying that iamperfection is scummy for maliciously not remembering Mario Mini. But in the 2nd quote, he backs off when iamperfection gives an obvious answer. Why bother to ask the question at all if you're going to be satisfied with "I just don't remember"?
iamperfectionI find iamperfection's start to the game a bit scummy. I think the main motivation behind scum posts at the start of D1 is to quickly be established as an "active poster" and not a lurker. iamperfection's posts are many in number, but a lot of them are pretty pointless and give me the feeling that he's posting just for the sake of posting: + Show Spoiler +On December 19 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote:amuse me give a reason why. On December 19 2012 09:33 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:33 debears wrote:On December 19 2012 09:32 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
I don't think so, Morbidius. It looked pretty clear what he was trying to say to me.
Debears, did you just fall for a Kenpachi trap? I've done the same thing before. Claiming VT serves no useful purpose for town early d1 were you town or scum that game? On December 19 2012 09:38 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:36 yamato77 wrote:On December 19 2012 09:35 Stutters695 wrote:
Ebwop: thought so, internet sarcasm just isn't my thing.
Anyway miller talk is pointless. If someone else rolled miller they should claim and we lynch the scummier of the two, otherwise it's a non issue until later down the line. After a few flips discussion on setup would have more meaning but currently it's pointless.
Yamato if you're only making ten posts per cycle or whatever please try to make them higher quality/don't start that until we have stuff to discuss. People making dumb accusations. I have to post against them. This post will be the final one that I won't count against my arbitrary posting limit. hey i think your arbitrary post limit is stupid and you shouldn't do it. If your town i want to know what you think and if your scum well the walls will come crashing down eventually. So either way i don't want a posting restriction from you On December 19 2012 10:16 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:50 Eywa- wrote:
Hello everyone,
My name is Victor Valentine and I have just moved to this town from the great metropolis of New York City. I speak both English and French... I have gotten here through obtaining a job at the local power plant. I wish to have a beer down at the local tavern to get to know some people from this town. Let me know what you all think!
of what have fun with your role play stuff but from your post you have actually commented on absolutely nothing. So im thinking maybe scum what you think? On December 19 2012 10:27 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 10:26 Palmar wrote:On December 19 2012 09:11 yamato77 wrote:
I'm miller.
This post is not going to count against my post count because I'm forced to do this, I believe. wut? wut are you confused about? On December 19 2012 10:53 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 10:51 Morbidius wrote:On December 19 2012 10:32 iamperfection wrote:On December 19 2012 10:30 Palmar wrote:On December 19 2012 10:27 iamperfection wrote:On December 19 2012 10:26 Palmar wrote:On December 19 2012 09:11 yamato77 wrote:
I'm miller.
This post is not going to count against my post count because I'm forced to do this, I believe. wut? wut are you confused about? He seems to think he's forced to claim miller, and is talking about post count? he said before the game started he was imposing a post count restriction. I strongly suggest him to drop the post count restriction, it will only restrict our reads on him. Also this whole ''post count restriction'' is convenient if he got scum. there an echo in here?
I'd appreciate some thoughts on my points. Palmar, you can consider this your two people to analyze if you want. Apparently, you've already looked at debears, so do you agree or disagree with what I said? What do you think of debars votes on stutters? Im leaning town on debars because 1. A scum debars would know better than to come after me at all after mario mini 2.He was absolutely right on stutters just recapping the thread and not stating anything at all. His response was to apologize basically which i hate. also too toad and palmar who i have caught with my ninja f5 i think your totally misrepresenting what debars is saying considering his vote is on stutters. He is obviously trying to lynch him dawgs. so im thinking about a stutters lynch right now I get what you're saying though if you think I am misrepresenting what he said I want you to interpret what he said here: Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:27 debears wrote:On December 19 2012 09:25 Vivax wrote:
Hi noobs,
I'm a Vanilla townie.
And I don't understand why yamato is so afraid of posting much. What. The. Fuck ##Vote Vivax The wording is either incredibly sincere which would make him an incredibly cynical (not cynical... I don't remember the correct word right now  ) considering that he did the very same thing or it makes him someone faking emotions for whatever reason. 3) That's odd, because your reasoning up to your vote had to do only with him not publicizing his reads, as shown by the quotes + Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 00:13 Toadesstern wrote:
Hey Palmar. Do you think WBG would be so open about explaining what he's doing if he's really trying to do what he wants us to think he's doing? On December 20 2012 00:20 Toadesstern wrote:Might be on you sometime later. Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 16:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
Toad is scum, let's kill him, toad is scum, let's kill him, lalala la la laaaaaa
##vote Toadesstern
into Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 21:37 wherebugsgo wrote:
At this point in the game it's not the figuring out of alignments that's the problem. It's publicizing reads that I don't have an interest in publicizing.
I have no reason to make public reads that are better off being developed in private. Tainting reads by giving your targets forewarning that they're being watched carefully is generally (I've found) a good way to ruin them, at least on day 1.
That's why I like to observe, for the most part, or at least cause some reactions, without putting forth all of my motives. really doesn't work bugs. The only reason I didn't say it more clearly is because after all there might be someone stupid enough to go all batshit about your first vote. Noone did. You're still going with it? Why are you explaining what you're doing when your "plan" revolves around being a trap? Again, why are you still going with it? On December 20 2012 00:28 Toadesstern wrote:
Actually
##vote wherebugsgo
I really don't see mafia NOT telling someone who's not a vet (assuming team mafia is not vet only :p) to vote bugs for his vote. Neither do I think that not a single mafia thought voting bugs might be a good way to place a vote after his vote.
There, now you've got your reaction bugs. you're other reasoning came after. I will tackle that in a later post 4) That's incredibly stupid reasoning if you were town 5) I can't take your word for this one either way. You could be town being honest. You could be scum lying. My problem with this is I asked what other games you did it in. You failed to respond properly, and instead wasted my time 6) Making a post-vote reasoning post on you. A big problem of yours is saying that that was your reasoning for voting him, where your comments before that said otherwise. I really don't like your responses in 1-4. Your 5 and 6 are excuses of playstyle which I will have to examine further. I still think your scum Next part coming in a bit
About your 1)
Exactly what I said. I never voted you. Yet you make it look like I said otherwise by saying "I'm having a tought time keeping my story straight". Looky-Looky: That's why my vote on WBG is so "fast" in comparison to the never-to-be vote on you.
2) It was YOU poor wording that caused this. You still haven't understood what I wrote. Go back and read it. If what I thought you said would be true it would have been a mafia mindset. That's why I said it is. Once I realized that you just can't write properly I backed off and realized it was just a mistake, therefore there was no longer a mafia mindset because the meaning of your sentence changed drastically.
3) I'll just ignore this. That's how I play. If you check any of my games you'll see that I play that way every single time as it's more productive and usually people are able to see the grand scheme of things instead of tunneling like a mad man. There's obviously always that one crazy guy in every game.
4) No it's not. I hardly ever vote people I never played with on d1 and I prefere voting people I played with at least 3 games or something like that because I can judge them way better than a random newbie. Than again, might be weird to you because you haven't played as many games yet.... If I say "I'm only voting people I played at least 3 games with on d1" that means that I'm still left with AT LEAST half of the entire sign-ups and surely there should be mafia in there as well, mafia that are way easier to figure out for me.
5) So? You wanted to waste my time by asking me that stupid question when I made it very clear that I'm not willing to do that kind of thing, ever. Seems fair to me.
6) Guess you'll have to deal with that because as mentioned, that's how I and actually at least 70% of people (especially vets) on TL play. But go ahead, it's probably a mafia-treat to play like that if the majority of people does it like that (for a reason).
Seriously, if you hadn't taken your time to check on Chrono I'd be all over for OMGUS'ing and Tunneling me like a mad man.
On Lynching matters:
Right now I've got 2 basic scenarios in my head.
WBG is still the guy I'd like to lynch the most as my read on him is the strongest.
Zelblade is someone I could get behind based on meta. He's a guy who actively lurks on purpose as mafia as he thinks people ignore him for whatever reason and it usually is that way. He at least told me that that's his basic plan as mafia once in irc, he was mafia when he told me so and he did it that game, so yeah looks like he hasn't changed his old habbits of playing mafia to me. I'd say it's a weak meta read though as stuff like that always could just end up being real-life troubles of his and therefore got my preference on a WBG lynch.
Iamperfection looks promising if WBG is not mafia / is most likely town if WBG is mafia... which is the reason I said I've got 2 basic scenarios in my head. There's more to that but explaining that would be troublesome, complicated and probably derailing the thread so I'll leave it with that as he doesn't seem to be an option right now.
so yeah. I could get behind a Zelblade or WBG lynch today I guess. I know that wbg is proposing a Zelblade lynch and it's giving me troubles as well but I'll ignore it for now. It's most likely that one of my reads is wrong anyways, I'm not Jesus.
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Toad I want a wiggles lynch, why don't you? ^^
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No strong read on wiggles yet. Same goes for you btw and I disagree with you when you said you're playing one of your more townish games.
Really don't know what to make of you two guys yet. That being said I don't see a reason why I should lynch into him when I'm not sure about him at all. He's a vet and if he's town he'll die himself just fine soon enough, which solves the problem as well.
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No, I have a better idea.
step 1) we lynch wiggles.
There is no step 2.
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Let's put it this way: I can somewhat see the reasoning for a Wiggles lynch. I really don't like his political-like posts he's doing. The posts he does are (imo) written very carefully and seem to be very understanding towards the new guys in this game. Very much like someone candidating for Mayor in a game with that option, just that there's no mayor in this game and it feels faked to me. I don't really like that but I wouldn't say he's the best lynch for today based on that.
He continues to surprise me most times I sign up for games he's playing as well because I think I figured him out, he's being useless as town, I want to lynch him for that because he's usually not and suddenly he flips town.
I'd get behind a Wiggles lynch if I have to, to avoid a no-lynch but other than that I'd say WBG / Zelblade are better options right now.
I'll reread wiggles big post you quoted and your own post once I'm at my parents place to see your reasoning for wanting to lynch him. Got to admit I only checked it out really quick but haven't tried to read it carefully until now because I'm busy packing stuff :p
For now I'm gone. See you in something like 2 hours, got to go now.
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EPT
