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hey palmar when you do that list thing where give your reads and dont give any reasons for what your thinking your sucm.
you listed debars as leaning scum and haven't even mentioned a single reason why or mentioned him at all for that matter.
What say you to that?
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also your vote is on Eywa you should probably get it off of there
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Am on a cellphone now, airports suck.  Iamperfection you seem to defend everyone...You disqualified a lot of accusations that were throw around here. But I am leaning to think you are a careful town trying not to myslynch. While were at it can I get opinions on debears?
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On December 20 2012 07:15 debears wrote:
Ah wtf its in the quotes
So you don't use meta? If so do you have multiple other games where you say this?
I do use meta, pretty much actually, I just don't read old games I weren't part of because I think you've got the be in the situation first hand to understand it and how it came to it.
Additionally if I start reading old games for someone I have to do it for everyone. I don't really feel like reading 30 games....
Yeah got a bunch of games stateing that, go ahead and search them^^
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On December 20 2012 07:30 Morbidius wrote:Am on a cellphone now, airports suck. Iamperfection you seem to defend everyone...You disqualified a lot of accusations that were throw around here. But I am leaning to think you are a careful town trying not to myslynch. While were at it can I get opinions on debears?
yes morbidius i want to lynch scum that is my goal............
i have no strong feelings on debars one way or the other. the fact that he dosent have a 10 page filter yet is somewhat concerning but i havent seen anything in his filter that screams scum. He will be way active if he is town and if he is scum i expect him to drop off. so far hes been okish
so im null on him
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On December 20 2012 07:16 iamperfection wrote:
hey palmar when you do that list thing where give your reads and dont give any reasons for what your thinking your sucm.
you listed debars as leaning scum and haven't even mentioned a single reason why or mentioned him at all for that matter.
What say you to that?
Hello. Are you not reading the thread? Every single read I've made I've made at least a passing comment towards. You've asked about debears, and here is where I picked up something I didn't like from him:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17290209
I think every person not in the "not read yet" I've either interacted with or posted about for the thread to see. What are you looking for?
Also could you give your opinion on the Zelblade and Wiggles lynches we're discussing now.
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On December 20 2012 07:18 iamperfection wrote:
also your vote is on Eywa you should probably get it off of there
The location of votes are quite irrelevant unless there is instant majority lynching. I've made it quite clear I do not intend to lynch Eywa.
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On December 20 2012 07:35 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 07:15 debears wrote:
Ah wtf its in the quotes
So you don't use meta? If so do you have multiple other games where you say this?
I do use meta, pretty much actually, I just don't read old games I weren't part of because I think you've got the be in the situation first hand to understand it and how it came to it. Additionally if I start reading old games for someone I have to do it for everyone. I don't really feel like reading 30 games.... Yeah got a bunch of games stateing that, go ahead and search them^^
Ok. This is just fucking unreasonable
1) You were pretty happy to jump on me early when you didn't read my game
2) You say you use meta "pretty much"
3) You didn't bother to quickly check the game I listed in the thread to check my reaction (in other words USING META)
4) When I request a couple of quotes from your previous games you say that I can go search them.
That is bullshit. Total bullshit. I ask you for something fucking specific that you should easily be able to point out. This isn't something that's easy to ctrl f through filters. What's your reasoning for being uncompliant when you should have a pretty good idea where to find something like that from your previous games
I'm looking, and if I don't find anything, I'm screaming your name from the mountains until you are lynched.
##Unvote
##Vote Toad
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On December 20 2012 07:43 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 07:16 iamperfection wrote:
hey palmar when you do that list thing where give your reads and dont give any reasons for what your thinking your sucm.
you listed debars as leaning scum and haven't even mentioned a single reason why or mentioned him at all for that matter.
What say you to that? Hello. Are you not reading the thread? Every single read I've made I've made at least a passing comment towards. You've asked about debears, and here is where I picked up something I didn't like from him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17290209I think every person not in the "not read yet" I've either interacted with or posted about for the thread to see. What are you looking for? Also could you give your opinion on the Zelblade and Wiggles lynches we're discussing now.
yeah i missed that one.
When palmar is scum he gives 0 reasoning in his reads. Its possible hes grown out of that but i will lean slightly town for him since hes been active and engaged.
But i will have my eye on you palmar i hold you in very high regard.
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@palmar
What do you know about wiggles meta im trying to figure out if he is just stupid or if he is mafia.
I said when i saw it his post regarding Eywa at the time was the dumbest thing i had ever seen but do you know anything about his meta. is he prone to this stuff with regards to his alignment?
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On December 20 2012 08:38 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 07:35 Toadesstern wrote:On December 20 2012 07:15 debears wrote:
Ah wtf its in the quotes
So you don't use meta? If so do you have multiple other games where you say this?
I do use meta, pretty much actually, I just don't read old games I weren't part of because I think you've got the be in the situation first hand to understand it and how it came to it. Additionally if I start reading old games for someone I have to do it for everyone. I don't really feel like reading 30 games.... Yeah got a bunch of games stateing that, go ahead and search them^^ Ok. This is just fucking unreasonable 1) You were pretty happy to jump on me early when you didn't read my game 2) You say you use meta "pretty much" 3) You didn't bother to quickly check the game I listed in the thread to check my reaction (in other words USING META) 4) When I request a couple of quotes from your previous games you say that I can go search them. That is bullshit. Total bullshit. I ask you for something fucking specific that you should easily be able to point out. This isn't something that's easy to ctrl f through filters. What's your reasoning for being uncompliant when you should have a pretty good idea where to find something like that from your previous games I'm looking, and if I don't find anything, I'm screaming your name from the mountains until you are lynched. ##Unvote
##Vote Toad
what about it is unreasonable. I just said I don't go through old games at all. And you asked me to. I just said I don't do it...
If anything searching this kind of thing would be unreasonable lol.
About what you said:
1) I didn't jump on you. I said that you said A is something scummy while admitting that you did A yourself as town before. That's something really scummy and you did not make it clear at all that you were talking about something else
2) Yes I do, I use meta from games I played in only.
3) As mentioned, I don't do that.
4) As mentioned, I don't do that and I don't know in which of my 30 or something like that games I said something like that or on what page. As you said it's really not easy to find something like that :p
Here's my approach on meta as an easy to understand flowchart:
Was I in the game myself?
->Yes? -> Use meta
-> No?
----> Were multiple people (3+) in this game in the old game as well?
--------> Yes and noone disagrees -> take what the guy says to have happened for granted.
--------> Yes and people disagree (about it happening) -> ignore the meta read
--------> No -> ignore the meta read.
Pretty straight forward.
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On November 24 2012 03:55 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 03:31 Acrofales wrote:On November 24 2012 03:16 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 24 2012 03:05 Acrofales wrote:
Okay, I went through Sandro's filter, and other than his absence at some key moments I cannot find anything scummy. He seems to be playing pretty standard for him, calling people town with no reason given. However, I am looking forward to him waking up and starting to play again.
Another thing to keep in mind is that from a game-setup point of view it is very very risky to put people like Sandro+Syllo on opposite alignments. Not quite as bad as Coag+Jackal (and the only game I've played with both of them DrH stuck both of them on the scumteam), but not something you can do without making a very serious consideration, as they are well-known for having each other's number. I don't want to let this weigh too heavily, because meta-speculation about the host is really dodgy ground, but I felt it was worth mentioning.
Syllo+Sand: do you have a recent (last half a year or so) game where you were opposite alignments? 3rd party doesn't count. So I take it you are not so familiar with his meta? Because both Toad and Adam seemed to give him scum reads on meta. I'm also disturbed on how syllo is reluctant to give a read on him. I've asked him twice at this time, and he still doesn't take a solid position. There are two newbies using the logic "syllo won the event ergo sand is scum" and that's going unopposed. I don't get why he's not taking a position against sand. I second that a game in which syllo and sand played together as opposite alignments would be quite instructive. That way we can tell just how accurate these vet reads being made are and I'll be more comfortable regarding people's reads. For the record I'm opposed to a sand lynch at this time, until more people comment on the cases on him, at least. Right now there are much better lynches, more into that in a bit. Only remotely normal game I remember Sandroba being scum is Liar mafia. His meta was blatantly obvious there, because he just plain didn't care about the game. That is not the impression I am getting from him. I have played with town Sandroba a couple of times now, and am getting a similar feeling. The main difference is that he has gone awol for long stretches of time. I don't like that at all, but admit real world stuff does come up and interfere with playing sometimes. I am uncomfortable lynching Sandroba with the ONLY thing I can hold against him is that he was afk when it counted. Adam states Sandroba is playing like he "don't-give-a-shit", which I disagree with. @Adam: please explain yourself a bit better. What makes you have this read? Toad doesn't have a meta read on Sandro at all. He has a "Syllo is town, therefore Sandro must be scum" read based on the party leader elections, which is pants-on-head retarded. nope I had a meta read on Sandro up until yesterday. He was way to "friendly" when talking to syllo imo which again is a reason I liked syllos conversation with him. Town Sandro usually isn't open at all and tries to net people, by being sneaking and laying traps, so I didn't like what he was showing on d1. Problem about meta reads is you can't explain them because as someone else stated I don't think reading an old game is anything like playing it. You've got to be in the game yourself you're referring to imo. I'm saying "had" because what sandro said today, especially him being pissed makes me rethink things a bit... but I'd still say he's mafia considering that I'm not and syllo's probably not either. Yeah I'd say mafia had their eggs in the basked.
Ok found the quote in chrono.
Why in the fuck did you not just tell me you said it in chrono???
If you are town and you believe I am town, you are wasting my fucking time for no reason
If you are town and you believe I am scum, you want to waste my time on a wild goose chase
If you are scum, you are purposely wasting my time
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On December 20 2012 09:13 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 03:55 Toadesstern wrote:On November 24 2012 03:31 Acrofales wrote:On November 24 2012 03:16 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 24 2012 03:05 Acrofales wrote:
Okay, I went through Sandro's filter, and other than his absence at some key moments I cannot find anything scummy. He seems to be playing pretty standard for him, calling people town with no reason given. However, I am looking forward to him waking up and starting to play again.
Another thing to keep in mind is that from a game-setup point of view it is very very risky to put people like Sandro+Syllo on opposite alignments. Not quite as bad as Coag+Jackal (and the only game I've played with both of them DrH stuck both of them on the scumteam), but not something you can do without making a very serious consideration, as they are well-known for having each other's number. I don't want to let this weigh too heavily, because meta-speculation about the host is really dodgy ground, but I felt it was worth mentioning.
Syllo+Sand: do you have a recent (last half a year or so) game where you were opposite alignments? 3rd party doesn't count. So I take it you are not so familiar with his meta? Because both Toad and Adam seemed to give him scum reads on meta. I'm also disturbed on how syllo is reluctant to give a read on him. I've asked him twice at this time, and he still doesn't take a solid position. There are two newbies using the logic "syllo won the event ergo sand is scum" and that's going unopposed. I don't get why he's not taking a position against sand. I second that a game in which syllo and sand played together as opposite alignments would be quite instructive. That way we can tell just how accurate these vet reads being made are and I'll be more comfortable regarding people's reads. For the record I'm opposed to a sand lynch at this time, until more people comment on the cases on him, at least. Right now there are much better lynches, more into that in a bit. Only remotely normal game I remember Sandroba being scum is Liar mafia. His meta was blatantly obvious there, because he just plain didn't care about the game. That is not the impression I am getting from him. I have played with town Sandroba a couple of times now, and am getting a similar feeling. The main difference is that he has gone awol for long stretches of time. I don't like that at all, but admit real world stuff does come up and interfere with playing sometimes. I am uncomfortable lynching Sandroba with the ONLY thing I can hold against him is that he was afk when it counted. Adam states Sandroba is playing like he "don't-give-a-shit", which I disagree with. @Adam: please explain yourself a bit better. What makes you have this read? Toad doesn't have a meta read on Sandro at all. He has a "Syllo is town, therefore Sandro must be scum" read based on the party leader elections, which is pants-on-head retarded. nope I had a meta read on Sandro up until yesterday. He was way to "friendly" when talking to syllo imo which again is a reason I liked syllos conversation with him. Town Sandro usually isn't open at all and tries to net people, by being sneaking and laying traps, so I didn't like what he was showing on d1. Problem about meta reads is you can't explain them because as someone else stated I don't think reading an old game is anything like playing it. You've got to be in the game yourself you're referring to imo. I'm saying "had" because what sandro said today, especially him being pissed makes me rethink things a bit... but I'd still say he's mafia considering that I'm not and syllo's probably not either. Yeah I'd say mafia had their eggs in the basked. Ok found the quote in chrono. Why in the fuck did you not just tell me you said it in chrono??? If you are town and you believe I am town, you are wasting my fucking time for no reason If you are town and you believe I am scum, you want to waste my time on a wild goose chase If you are scum, you are purposely wasting my time
Playing dota right now (for the last 4 hours...)
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not that I would have answered otherwise
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Mind answering the actual fucking question
Why did you make me look it up???????
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because I am playing dota and don't have time to look things up while alt-tabbing.
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Also Toad, based on these two posts, you seem to have clearly established at that time, based on your misconception, that I was exhibiting behavior that was very largely scum oriented and very little town oriented, yet you didn't vote me
+ Show Spoiler +On December 19 2012 23:42 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 23:32 Palmar wrote:@sciberbia To add to your case, I had already noticed this post as you did: On December 19 2012 09:33 debears wrote:
I've done the same thing before. Claiming VT serves no useful purpose for town early d1 What sticks out to me here is the first part. The second part is obviously correct, but the first part is interesting, why is it included in this post? It's not necessary to drive the point across, it doesn't help debears press the issue, all there is to it is an attempt to convince that since this is what he does, we need not worry about him being mafia. I need to read more, but I think maybe we have a good option here for a lynch. yeah agree. Imo those 3 ones in conjunction are equally interessting, if not more so: Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:33 debears wrote:On December 19 2012 09:32 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
I don't think so, Morbidius. It looked pretty clear what he was trying to say to me.
Debears, did you just fall for a Kenpachi trap? I've done the same thing before. Claiming VT serves no useful purpose for town early d1 Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:33 iamperfection wrote:On December 19 2012 09:33 debears wrote:On December 19 2012 09:32 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
I don't think so, Morbidius. It looked pretty clear what he was trying to say to me.
Debears, did you just fall for a Kenpachi trap? I've done the same thing before. Claiming VT serves no useful purpose for town early d1 were you town or scum that game? He's basicly telling us to lynch the guy because he's doing something stupid with the reasoning that he once did the very same thing AS TOWN. Given his history he at least should be the guy telling people something the lines of "okay, this guy is retarded but sometimes townies are retarded. I did the same mistake in a recent game" given how people apparently love to defend other people... well or at least not bring it up the way he did. Instead he's insta-voting him with a flawed logic when he should be well aware of all that. On December 19 2012 23:57 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 23:50 iamperfection wrote:On December 19 2012 23:16 sciberbia wrote:Just woke up and reread everything. So far, I'm leaning scum on debears and iamperfection
debearsThe main thing I find suspicious about debears is that he twice seemed to be demanding explanation from other people, but then backed off rather easily when they failed to explain themselves. See spoiler for quotes + Show Spoiler +On December 19 2012 09:27 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:25 Vivax wrote:
Hi noobs,
I'm a Vanilla townie.
And I don't understand why yamato is so afraid of posting much. What. The. Fuck ##Vote Vivax On December 19 2012 09:33 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:32 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
I don't think so, Morbidius. It looked pretty clear what he was trying to say to me.
Debears, did you just fall for a Kenpachi trap? I've done the same thing before. Claiming VT serves no useful purpose for town early d1 On December 19 2012 09:50 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:48 Vivax wrote:
Hey debby, I've just finished writing a huge post in another game.
Admit it, you just voted for me cause I called you noob. I don't remember that at all actually. And mind explaining what pro-town purpose your claim has? On December 19 2012 09:51 Vivax wrote:Maybe later  On December 19 2012 09:52 debears wrote:
Fair enough Debears immediately voted Vivax and made a followup question. I found it odd that he backed off so easily. He recently unvoted Vivax as well. This suggests to me that he wanted to appear to be asking important questions, but didn't want to draw too much attention to himself. Next is his little back-and-forth with iamperfection: + Show Spoiler +On December 19 2012 09:41 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:40 iamperfection wrote:you remember everything from that game? dont be retarded the reason you remember you claiming vt is because it was you Eh. True. I would just think that SnB screaming "Kenpachi rule!!!" would have come across your brain  Similar thing here. In the 1st quote, debears seems to be implying that iamperfection is scummy for maliciously not remembering Mario Mini. But in the 2nd quote, he backs off when iamperfection gives an obvious answer. Why bother to ask the question at all if you're going to be satisfied with "I just don't remember"?
iamperfectionI find iamperfection's start to the game a bit scummy. I think the main motivation behind scum posts at the start of D1 is to quickly be established as an "active poster" and not a lurker. iamperfection's posts are many in number, but a lot of them are pretty pointless and give me the feeling that he's posting just for the sake of posting: + Show Spoiler +On December 19 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote:amuse me give a reason why. On December 19 2012 09:33 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:33 debears wrote:On December 19 2012 09:32 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
I don't think so, Morbidius. It looked pretty clear what he was trying to say to me.
Debears, did you just fall for a Kenpachi trap? I've done the same thing before. Claiming VT serves no useful purpose for town early d1 were you town or scum that game? On December 19 2012 09:38 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:36 yamato77 wrote:On December 19 2012 09:35 Stutters695 wrote:
Ebwop: thought so, internet sarcasm just isn't my thing.
Anyway miller talk is pointless. If someone else rolled miller they should claim and we lynch the scummier of the two, otherwise it's a non issue until later down the line. After a few flips discussion on setup would have more meaning but currently it's pointless.
Yamato if you're only making ten posts per cycle or whatever please try to make them higher quality/don't start that until we have stuff to discuss. People making dumb accusations. I have to post against them. This post will be the final one that I won't count against my arbitrary posting limit. hey i think your arbitrary post limit is stupid and you shouldn't do it. If your town i want to know what you think and if your scum well the walls will come crashing down eventually. So either way i don't want a posting restriction from you On December 19 2012 10:16 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:50 Eywa- wrote:
Hello everyone,
My name is Victor Valentine and I have just moved to this town from the great metropolis of New York City. I speak both English and French... I have gotten here through obtaining a job at the local power plant. I wish to have a beer down at the local tavern to get to know some people from this town. Let me know what you all think!
of what have fun with your role play stuff but from your post you have actually commented on absolutely nothing. So im thinking maybe scum what you think? On December 19 2012 10:27 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 10:26 Palmar wrote:On December 19 2012 09:11 yamato77 wrote:
I'm miller.
This post is not going to count against my post count because I'm forced to do this, I believe. wut? wut are you confused about? On December 19 2012 10:53 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 10:51 Morbidius wrote:On December 19 2012 10:32 iamperfection wrote:On December 19 2012 10:30 Palmar wrote:On December 19 2012 10:27 iamperfection wrote:On December 19 2012 10:26 Palmar wrote:On December 19 2012 09:11 yamato77 wrote:
I'm miller.
This post is not going to count against my post count because I'm forced to do this, I believe. wut? wut are you confused about? He seems to think he's forced to claim miller, and is talking about post count? he said before the game started he was imposing a post count restriction. I strongly suggest him to drop the post count restriction, it will only restrict our reads on him. Also this whole ''post count restriction'' is convenient if he got scum. there an echo in here?
I'd appreciate some thoughts on my points. Palmar, you can consider this your two people to analyze if you want. Apparently, you've already looked at debears, so do you agree or disagree with what I said? What do you think of debars votes on stutters? Im leaning town on debars because 1. A scum debars would know better than to come after me at all after mario mini 2.He was absolutely right on stutters just recapping the thread and not stating anything at all. His response was to apologize basically which i hate. also too toad and palmar who i have caught with my ninja f5 i think your totally misrepresenting what debars is saying considering his vote is on stutters. He is obviously trying to lynch him dawgs. so im thinking about a stutters lynch right now I get what you're saying though if you think I am misrepresenting what he said I want you to interpret what he said here: Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:27 debears wrote:On December 19 2012 09:25 Vivax wrote:
Hi noobs,
I'm a Vanilla townie.
And I don't understand why yamato is so afraid of posting much. What. The. Fuck ##Vote Vivax The wording is either incredibly sincere which would make him an incredibly cynical (not cynical... I don't remember the correct word right now ) considering that he did the very same thing or it makes him someone faking emotions for whatever reason.
Yet, you seemed to vote WBG with very little reasoning showing how his posting is largely scum oriented
On December 20 2012 00:13 Toadesstern wrote:
Hey Palmar. Do you think WBG would be so open about explaining what he's doing if he's really trying to do what he wants us to think he's doing?
wifomwifomwifom
On December 20 2012 00:20 Toadesstern wrote:Might be on you sometime later. Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 16:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
Toad is scum, let's kill him, toad is scum, let's kill him, lalala la la laaaaaa
##vote Toadesstern
into Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 21:37 wherebugsgo wrote:
At this point in the game it's not the figuring out of alignments that's the problem. It's publicizing reads that I don't have an interest in publicizing.
I have no reason to make public reads that are better off being developed in private. Tainting reads by giving your targets forewarning that they're being watched carefully is generally (I've found) a good way to ruin them, at least on day 1.
That's why I like to observe, for the most part, or at least cause some reactions, without putting forth all of my motives. really doesn't work bugs. The only reason I didn't say it more clearly is because after all there might be someone stupid enough to go all batshit about your first vote. Noone did. You're still going with it? Why are you explaining what you're doing when your "plan" revolves around being a trap? Again, why are you still going with it?
You get on him for not wanting to publicize all his reads. Wow that's not largely scum oriented. Town has no reason to dish out all their reads on d1 do they?
On December 20 2012 00:28 Toadesstern wrote:
Actually
##vote wherebugsgo
I really don't see mafia NOT telling someone who's not a vet (assuming team mafia is not vet only :p) to vote bugs for his vote. Neither do I think that not a single mafia thought voting bugs might be a good way to place a vote after his vote.
There, now you've got your reaction bugs.
Still no reason showing a clear mafia oriented mindset for WBG, yet you voted him when, in my posts, you tried to establish that I had a clear mafia oriented mindset.
Ain't that funny?
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On December 20 2012 09:22 Toadesstern wrote:
because I am playing dota and don't have time to look things up while alt-tabbing.
So you don't remember at all you said it in a game that very recently got done??????????
Bullshit
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Ah, Palmar. Missed it :/
Anyways, you feel strong enough to base an entire scumread on one post you "didn't like" from me?
Also, if you bother to read Mario mini (I'm guessing you haven't), then you would realize I had to endure the retarded "kenpachi rule" shoutouts from SB the whole damn game.
Using Kenpachi rule for a scumread is fucking retarded. Completely. Fucking. Retarded. I stopped that shit before it could even get started
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I never said it's because of the Kenpachi rule. You still haven't understood my misunderstanding. I thought you were referring to "claiming VT" when you said "I did that before".
And again, I'm playing dota. I've got 10-20 secs inbetween to post. Not thinking at all :p
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EPT
