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On December 19 2012 23:21 cakepie wrote:
...The FOS on sylencia was definitely too hasty.
This was to create discussion. Hence no vote. I was trying to put pressure it is not ok to fly under the radar. We all have real things happening in our lives (especailly with Xmas... )BUT... we also all signed up for the game and knew the consequences.
Shz’s case on mocsta so far does not look like it holds much water right now. Nonetheless, the time for banter about policy is past; it is time to put forward cases.
Agreed, and was building some evidence whilst you was writing your post. Posted around the same time as yourself 
Q: You accused shz of sheeping. What do you think after studying his filter? Are there the beginnings of a case that can be built upon? Whatever you find unsatisfactory about his play, I would like to see you question him and push him to take a position on someone or something.
Position Taken. Vote has been counted..
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On December 19 2012 23:47 Mocsta wrote:
EBWOP.. accidentally pressed enter... *sigh*
(2) If you ask me a new question, I will answer it.
If you want to re-ask a question someone else answered, I am not going to bother. Especially with your vote justification.
I can't tell if your too lazy to read the filters properly.. or you are trying to cause confusion.
Either way, your not helping town.
My vote is heading your way.
##Vote: Shz
(This is in no way.. OMGUS).. i actually wanted to vote a lurker, but after re-reading the waterproof case comment, I think this is mafia trying to derail the town atmosphere.
Apologies!!!
After doing the early first post. I rushed the 2nd post.
I wanted to say
If you [u]RE-ASKING[/] a question I have already answer. I am not going to bother quoting. Look it up yourself.
If you dont like my answer, and are developing the question further. I will respond.
Tic for Tac....
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This is going against the trend, but my priority is to lynch mafia.
Personally, I do not think Threesr is Mafia.
(1) Its too convenient. I think if mafia did a slip such as On December 19 2012 11:25 threesr wrote:
1. I think lurking is fine at all points in the game.
then they might try to say they misunderstood the context of the question to weasel out of the slip (etc)
This leads to...
(2) He has been upfront about his opinion & with a candour I do not link to Mafia.
I wont say he has stood by it (lack of posts).
However, is it a "crime" for someone to have a diverging opinion from the status quo?
I agree I would like more from Threesr, but this is hardly indicative of scum play.
The conclusion is:
I currently view Threesr as a future uncertainty to deal with (i.e. interests may or may not be vested in Town, but I do not think is mafia).
[Having just now viewed Cakepie post
Has posted nothing but useless one- and two- liners. It is coming up to daytime EST, time to step up your play or else. As I and others have already mentioned, lurking is not acceptable here. In the absence of scummier targets, I will not hesitate to lynch you.
I agree if no scummier target, lets lynch him. However, i implore that with the remaining ~30hrs we do our best to find a candidate with more certainty.
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Interesting Cakepie..
When i said, i wanted to vote a lurker before pushing for Shz.. i was leaning towards OrangeRemi as well.
Either way, I think im "spamming" the thread too hard, so am going to back off. (I don't think its spam , but others are saying its useless)
I *was* hoping it would prompt discussions, but people seem to be using my activity as a medium to lurk.
Over and out 
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On December 20 2012 00:02 Chromatically wrote:
@Mocsta
You've said why shz's vote on you is weak, and I agree, but why does it make him scum? What is his scum motivation?
Sigh. I just said i was going to back off.. will answer this however before signing out.
As the question is fair, and develops upon what I wrote initially.
Shz is not the only lurker that is copying the post thoughts of others. However, he was the first I noticed that turned it into a vote, admitting he was creating a bandwagon for the sake of a bandwagon.
Is this truly conducive to town atmosphere?
[u]I think not.[]/u] A bandwagon is useful for a pressure vote, and to receive slips due to the perceived pressure.
*Perceived being the key, Townies are innocent and are not subject to the same perceived pressure*
However, with a weak case, there is no pressure? Thus, the intended outcome is mitigated leading to pointlessness.
You could argue bad town play, or ...
you could argue:
(1) mafia trying to derail the town atmosphere,
(2)trying to create confusion in the thread,
(3)trying to take the limelight off someone we are close to finding out is scum, but have not identified yet....
Pick your choice....
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On December 20 2012 00:05 Chromatically wrote:
@all
Comments on Corazon?
haha lastly, because I cant resist!!
I think Cakepie summarised the situation more eloquently than I could.
Personally, I agree with case-by-case. This is re-enforced by past commentary where I stated, if 5 lurkers are up for lynch, how do you choose? The decision requires thought, and in my opinion that can be interpretted as case by case.
The rest of Cakepie stuff is top notch summary of event. The questions are also well designed to stimulate discussion and avoid a yes/no answer. Perfect.
I really like Q2, and eagerly await the outcome.
In fact, if cDgCorazon did not answer Q2 in a sufficient manner, most likely my vote would end up there for Day 1.
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On December 20 2012 00:09 Spaghetticus wrote:
Personally I would like people to focus their efforts away from Mocsta and Cakepie, and focus almost exclusively on the lurkers. If they do happen to be scum then at this rate they will leave a trail and we will nail them day two.
Im dead regardless.
End of Night 1, I suspect I will be shot.
Hopefully we have a medic that likes me *sigh*
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On December 20 2012 00:25 threesr wrote:
##FOS: Mocsta He determines that Chromatically is a good town read after one post that he reads. Then he keeps spamming the thread with questions, but not actually taking a stance on anything himself. Seems like he is trying to become the "town moderator" and by asking a million questions in order to appear pro-town without providing any substance. I don't like that hes all over the place. First he says "Personally, I do not think Threesr is Mafia." then "I agree if no scummier target, lets lynch him."
##Unvote
Thanks for the behaviour slip Threesr.
You have made this too easy.
SCUM:Threesr
If we look @ the post above, his point is made relatively clearly.
However, note, all his quotes are taken completely out of contex; let us put events back into perspective.
(1) Threesr: He determines that Chromatically is a good town read after one post that he reads.
Actual: On December 19 2012 11:06 Mocsta wrote:
@Chromatically
(1) So far you are my best town read. (Based on your other comments in thread)
I concede "Best town read" is open to interpretation as "good town read".
It is clear I expressed my decision based off more than 1 post, but here Threesr attempts direct manipulation of fact.
Why?
Threesr is attempting to condemn with no evidence.
The addition of "one post" is a nice subtle reminder of his hidden agenda - SCUM BEHAVIOUR.
(2) Threesr: "Asking a million questions in order to appear pro-town without providing any substance"
Actual: Townies know their innocence, and are seeking the scum hunt.
Threesr, for your benefit in future games (if you dont get modkilled again..) only scum think about trying to appear pro-town.
Your interpretation of my behaviour correlates to your role in this game SCUM and in my opinion is a clear slip and to add further insult to injury, is an extremely poor attempt [again] @ fact manipulation.
(3) Threesr: First he says "Personally, I do not think Threesr is Mafia." then "I agree if no scummier target, lets lynch him
Actual: On December 19 2012 23:57 Mocsta wrote:This is going against the trend, but my priority is to lynch mafia. Personally, I do not think Threesr is Mafia. The conclusion is: I currently view Threesr as a future uncertainty to deal with (i.e. interests may or may not be vested in Town, but I do not think is mafia). [Having just now viewed Cakepie post Show nested quote +Has posted nothing but useless one- and two- liners. It is coming up to daytime EST, time to step up your play or else. As I and others have already mentioned, lurking is not acceptable here. In the absence of scummier targets, I will not hesitate to lynch you. I agree if no scummier target, lets lynch him. However, i implore that with the remaining ~30hrs we do our best to find a candidate with more certainty.
My post is quite clear cut. I advocate Threesr as a threat, but without enough post history, mafia is difficult to ascertain.
The stance is also obvious, I think Threesr is a threat to town, but not a top priority. [Based on others also lurking]
(Note: I even "implore" town to find another candiate for Day 1)
Threesr knows Town will be coming after him, perhaps Day 2 or Day 3, so is trying to negate the threat by targeting me
Unfortunately, with all the pressure to mount a case founded upon quicksand, he has had to resort to quote misrepresentation to convey himself.
This equates to lying. And is grounds for a vote & lynch come Day 1.
##:Threesr
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On December 20 2012 00:49 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 00:22 Mocsta wrote:On December 20 2012 00:09 Spaghetticus wrote:
Personally I would like people to focus their efforts away from Mocsta and Cakepie, and focus almost exclusively on the lurkers. If they do happen to be scum then at this rate they will leave a trail and we will nail them day two.
Im dead regardless. End of Night 1, I suspect I will be shot. Hopefully we have a medic that likes me *sigh* Is there a particular reason you posted this?
Yeah, I thought it was pretty clean cut. Perhaps not.
Based on the current status quo, I think its reasonable to assume I will be mafia killed Night 1, unless given some form of protection?
I was not asking for a medic to step forward, and will not ask them to step forward. [If exists]
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On December 20 2012 00:54 threesr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 00:22 Mocsta wrote:On December 20 2012 00:09 Spaghetticus wrote:
Personally I would like people to focus their efforts away from Mocsta and Cakepie, and focus almost exclusively on the lurkers. If they do happen to be scum then at this rate they will leave a trail and we will nail them day two.
Im dead regardless. End of Night 1, I suspect I will be shot. Hopefully we have a medic that likes me *sigh* So now you are softclaiming a power role out of nowhere? lol.
Nice twist again. Completely aligns with your fact misrepresentation I discussed in my case against you the previous post.
Threesr, you are scum
I did not soft claim anything. Its clear cut what I wrote.
If you can't interpret the meaning of "hopefully" then I don't think you are cut out for forum mafia...
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EBWOP
Due to the case above and wrong format.
##Vote: Threesr
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On December 20 2012 03:55 cakepie wrote:
Mocsta Q: Consider: if threesr is lazy "scumhunting" because he simply doesn’t know any better -- how would that measure against your case against shz for sheeping, and poor vote justification i.e. lack of critical analysis before voting based on "questions raised by others"?
(1)
I think threesr does know better.
+ Show Spoiler +Obviously his posts are small in size, but the tone/intent conveyed is easily identifiable in each post as the same. + Show Spoiler +On December 19 2012 11:25 threesr wrote:
1. I think lurking is fine at all points in the game. On December 20 2012 03:09 threesr wrote:
No I dont like writing a lot. and the one I love the most (as in made me laugh out loud)...On December 20 2012 03:12 shz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 03:09 threesr wrote:
@threesr
Could you elaborate on your scumread for Chunk? ... You go read his posts and make your own decision. Threesr then goes on to comment that there is time left in the day and throws in this beauty. On December 20 2012 09:01 threesr wrote:
.... Not that much chaos has been caused imo. Through out Day 1, many posters have called out Threesr for his posts. This quote above demonstrates his position clearly. I stand 100% by my read that he is a threat to town.This can be for the following reasons: (AFAIK) (1) Lurking Nature could be Mafia modus operandiI think this is unlikely. Threesr has proven he is willing to stand by his point of view, which may be considered anti-mafia. (2) Bad TownieCould be viable. His posts are so aggressive and snide, it is easy to dislike him. If he was a townie, this is *creating* confusion, and not aiding the scum hunting environment. (3) Neither Mafia nor TownThere is still the possibility of Rene Des Cartes being a role (aka Serial Killer). I think the way Threesr is playing is potentially the way an SK would play. (i.e. wanting to lurk, but at the same time voting Town/Mafia doesnt matter, so can easily change votes)
For me, all the reason above are genuine threats to town.
(2) How does it measure against my case for shz
+ Show Spoiler +Both of them had marginal cases, that is clear for all to see. I figured with some pressure induced by a vote, one of them may start to enter discussions more proactively. Between Threesr and Shz; I had to choose Shz. Threesr had openly acknowledged his willingness to lurk. => there was a high chance town would get zero gain for the vote. Even if he did speak.. retorts such as " On December 20 2012 08:55 threesr wrote:I have a good reason, because im not the mafia. Do little to aid scum hunting.
Ultimately, overnight, there has been several pages of discussion. Some of it quite productive. This can only aid town in the scum hunt.
Lastly,
Having thought about my impact on Day 1.
I realise I need to give more opportunities for others to speak.
Unfortunately, some of my 'spam' has resulted in lurkers being able to dodge questions directed at them.
In no ways do I infer that I will now lurk. I still plan to post actively, just, I will ensure I at least proof-read before posting!!
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Im at work, so will make an effort to put together a well-constructed post when i get home tonight. Prob 8-9hours.
I will state now for the record (in the hopes that it might prevent further sheeping) the below:
@Sylencia: I disprove of your candour in regards to sheeping. *Note: I am not calling you out as Mafia*
I don't think sheeping aids the scum hunt. By taking the "easy" path, and either admitting sheeping, or just copying others quotes; you provide no information as to where your allegiance lies (i.e town or mafia).
If the motives are town based, then we can not discriminate you as town easily, making the scum hunt harder.
If the motives are mafia based, then you are appearing to contribute and thus and satisfy the mafia modus operandi.
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On December 20 2012 14:21 OmniEulogy wrote:
The thing is we don't know if SK is even in the game. If he is Mocsta could very well be the SK and just trying to get along with everybody and do his best to scumhunt to curve suspicion, I could be the SK for pushing my idea for a lynch on you, shz could be the SK for generating reasons for why we should lynch multiple people. This early it is way too hard to tell how a 3rd party would play. .
Before I go.
Can we not go into posts over whether SK is in or not. The point is to scum hunt, and this isnt helping.
I know I mentioned it first... BUT...
My initial thoughts of Threesr were based around motives hard to explain as town or mafia. This is why i said On December 19 2012 23:57 Mocsta wrote:
The conclusion is:
I currently view Threesr as a future uncertainty to deal with (i.e. interests may or may not be vested in Town, but I do not think is mafia).
I ask we leave this issue for the future, and for the rest of Day 1 work on building cases for Scum or putting pressure on lurkers (which are still prevalent).
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Taking a coffee break.
Just did a quick check of the filters for lurker play.
*Note: I acknowledge completely, quality is more valuable than quantity.*
The people that have only 1 page of posts:
Cakepie:
Kickstart:
Orangeremi:
FatChunk:
Aquanim:
Sylencia:
Kickstart and Orangeremi and bolded, because in my opinion they have barely contributed to discussion.
Kickstart in particular even admits On December 20 2012 12:26 Kickstart wrote:
I don't have much to add at the moment.
Orangeremi/Kickstart...
Cakepie asked good questions.. Can you please answer them
@Kickstart
On December 19 2012 23:21 cakepie wrote:Kickstart: we agree that hunting scummy scum takes precedence over lurkers. Fingered to threesr’s defense of lurking, although that was pretty obvious, and comes after several others already pointed it out. Play so far seems less active than in previous games. Would like to see more activity and contribution in the remainder of the day phase. Show us the experience from your three games. Q1: re: threesr, he has openly declared that his playstyle was lurky, tried to defend it, and, well, did it. You said that: Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 17:05 Kickstart wrote:
I think scum would be hesitant to say something like that because allowing for people to just lurk creates a very bad town atmosphere, so I don't think scum would come in and so "o hey lurking is fine by me". What do you think of the possibility that threesr has adopted this meta in order to benefit himself when he rolls (eventually) scum? Q2: what do you think of the shz’s case on mocsta? What is your current read on mocsta? Does it look like scum with useless questions and creating a false impression of activity? Or an earnest townie? Q3: Apart from cDgCorazon, mocsta and threesr, has anything else caught your attention by now?
&
@Orangeremi
On December 19 2012 23:21 cakepie wrote:OrangeRemi: Nothing apart from useless, "unsure" answers on mocsta’s initial questions, deferring to earlier answers and pleading inexperience -- we are all new here, but that is no excuse for not even putting some thought into simple questions. Besides that, only noted timezone and first game. This is despite three posts spanning over 4+ hours during which others were active. Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:08 Orangeremi wrote:
Just for the record, my timezone is GMT-7, but my waking hours are rather unorthodox. Conveniently enough, seeing as a few of us are aussies :D If waking hours are "unorthodox" in a way that is "convenient" for the aussies, we could have expected much more substance by now. Q: Pick and make a case against someone.
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Im on bus..spag post is amazing. Great point about lack of effort to change vote. Enough time to not bus mafia.
What is your take on threesr then. He has been defended by the lurker kickstart...this aligns heavily with the reasoning used in your case to hunt mafia.
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I hate doing this on the phone. Cant give the post the love it deserves.
@orangeremi. Your filter comments on corazon doing the slip.
You said you didnt pick up anytjing till someone else pointed it out.
Q. If scum have superior starting knowledge and know remaining scum.
Do you think it is reasonable to think you took corazon comments innocently because you knew he was innocent?
Do u have rationale to make me think otherwise?
##fos: orangeremi
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On December 20 2012 18:37 Aquanim wrote:
EBWOP to emphasise this:
Mocsta, what is your current read on Shz?
Mate. Im on the bus and heading out. I read it but cant do a full case on the phone. IPomise i will get back to u within the next 4 hours
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On December 20 2012 23:16 threesr wrote:
So Orangeremi has contributed absolutely nothing for the entire game. Now he may not even make a vote today and hes had a ridiculous amount of time in this game to make a decision. wtf
Actually.. I think this is a very clever play. The dust needs to settle and votes need to be given the consideration they deserve.
@Threesr: I also think that this is an extremely ironic statement given your pedigree this game.
Now that I have read the thread.
+ Show Spoiler +I want to congratulate Mafia today. They have really stepped it up a notch in the second 24hr period.
I have read the thread sporadically today, but topics and votes have changed significantly between p24 and p27 etc.
This is exactly the type of confusion mafia need from us to survive. (i.e. have 2 or 3 ppl on the block, so they can spread their votes to hide identity).
I am also surprised strong contributors from the 1st 24hrs have subsided in the second period.
The last thing is: I re-read the OP for roles.
+ Show Spoiler +Out of the 13 roles, the default types of roles is 8 good guys, and (4+1) bad guys (1 = SK).
I have not played this game before, but I am guessing the ratio may be balanced... i.e. 8 townies to 5 mafia.
if we allow variance, it may be 9 townies and 4 mafia. (10/3 sounds way too skewed for town)
My point is: I think there is 4 mafia this game. (Chance of 4 + 1 SK, still equates to 4 mafia)
I am off to building a case.
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I was about to re-read the thread. And when refreshed caught this pearler from Spag.
##Unvote
PART1: Spag's -> Town Read Associations
+ Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 23:20 Spaghetticus wrote:Omni -> SpagShow nested quote +I don't think I have to play this game at a higher level than simple. It establishes me as town, helps in scum hunts and I give my input about how people are acting and how I feel about them. .... ... [Spag] .... The problem I have is that you are pushing to lynch me and my two best town reads because of your failure to look deeper. Try harder. ... A townie should have logic behind his claims. @SpaghettiI am going to associate your two best town reads as "Threesr and Corozon" You may say I implied the relationship to Threesr and Corozon. I refer you to the prior post. + Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 21:20 Spaghetticus wrote:
Theory of Town and Scum:
I'm confirming with a large degree of confidence that neither Threesr nor Corazon are scum. This degree of confidence is a big deal for a meticulous SOAB like me.
I think it is safe to conclude... your two *BEST* town reads are Threesr and Corozon.
[Fluff comment] Interesting... lets investigate this deeper.
Part 2: History behind Spags Town Reads
+ Show Spoiler +I am now going to quote from your filter chronologically. I look forward to your retort. (1) + Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 13:34 Spaghetticus wrote:
@Corazon
The information is there for the reading.
... Despite your play being scummy, I would prefer someone else get the lynch... (2) + Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 17:51 Spaghetticus wrote:
In defence of Corazon:
I conduct this defence with the caveat that I don’t actually think Corazon is innocent. I have a scum read on him, though I lack the confidence some of you display. (3) To ensure I am quoting fairly and to reason, here is one now claiming bad townie. + Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 19:27 Spaghetticus wrote:
..Threesr and Conazon ..
While I am not saying that there is absolutely zero chance of these players being scum, I think that the information available points to them just being bad town. (4)This one is nice... + Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 21:20 Spaghetticus wrote:
A scum Spag would do everything in his power to appear useful while hindering town. I have gone out of my way to help town in ways that are not directly measurable. Have I even tried to sway the vote of anyone other than away from Threesr and Corazon? I have only tried to optimise town as a whole at the expense of personal survivability.
(5) & lastly to re-enforce the message + Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 23:20 Spaghetticus wrote:
The problem I have is that you are pushing to lynch me and my two best town reads because of your failure to look deeper. Try harder.
Part3: Logic behind his claims
Spaghetticus wrote:A townie should have logic behind his claims.
I agree. Let us examine each of the 5 quotes.
(1)
+ Show Spoiler +
Fact:
- Acknowledgement of Corozon being scummy
- Recommends to lynch someone else, with no rationale?
Motive:
- Realises Corozon slipped as Mafia, and is attempting to distance himself.
- Is trying to take focus off Corozon simultaneously. Why would a townie want to lynch someone else, if the scum is confirmed? Our goal is to lynch scum. Full stop.
(2)
+ Show Spoiler +
Fact:
- Again acknowledges Corozon is NOT innocent.
Motive:
- Realises Corozon is set for the lynch. Is attempting to bus his brethren.
(3)
+ Show Spoiler +Fact: - Now considers Threesr and Corozon as bad townie. Motive: Spag is setting up for his long wall of text defense, and is planting the seed that Corozon is townie. As Spag says later On December 20 2012 19:27 Spaghetticus wrote:
how long until lynching? I need to plan logistics.
(4)
+ Show Spoiler +
Fact:
- Scum Spag would do everything to hinder town [Guess what, you are by defending Corozon who not been able to mount a solid defense]
-Has gone out way to help town in ways not measureable [Exactly, because the help is "negatively" off the charts..]
- Admits, sole focus has been on protecting Threesr and Corozon
- Admits attempts to manipulate town for his survival.
Motives:
- Agreed and you are. You are playing a very good passive-aggressive role and are hindering town by defending Corozon and then FOS Omni in a OMGUS response.
- Agreed. Your help to town is not measureable, because its "negatively" off the charts...
- Realises we are onto the full mafia crew of at least (Threesr, Corozon and Spag) and is trying to repair a sinking ship
Alternatively, Corozon is a mafia with a role, and will be valuable for the night phase.
- Fantastic choice of words. I agree he is trying to optimise town. But for whose benefit...I think this is the final take away that Spag (& co.) is mafia.
Town are not interested in their own survival. We win if town wins.
Town needs the scum hunt. Town needs to lynch scum.
(5)
+ Show Spoiler +
Fact:
- Spag acknowledges Threesr/Corozon now as best town reads
Motives:
- Now that big wall of text is posted, and some may follow his band wagon. He is trying to influence others that Threesr/Corozon are town.
[Fluff] The last rope for the Spag noose is:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 19 2012 11:00 Spaghetticus wrote:
. Do not be under the impression that (wordcount) = (town behaviour) Ironic, considering the wordcount used for his defense on Corozon...
Overall: I agree with the excellent case Aquanim put forward.
Non of Spags work as evidenced by Aqua or myself go towards aiding town.
I implore us townies to band together and share our vote with Aquanim.
##Vote: Spaghetticus
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EPT
