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Internet back up, quicker than expected :D
Chromatically I strongly disagree, I think the approach of Shz is great. I disagree with his conclusions, but the approach is immensely valuable, and I will likely be voting in line with this approach.
I've said it twice and I'll say it again, this is not a game of certainty, and our first lynch is more likely to come up town. If anyone is having confidence in their reads of over 40% they are either prodigal or misguided. We should not only expect a town lynch, we should prepare for one. All this posturing is setting up for day two when the real game begins.
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@Corazon
Any and all of your assertions that head/scum hunting is bad are wrong. It is cool that you have struck out to find your own understanding of the game, but at this point we really need some information, and the only way to get that is scumhunting. There are plenty of resources on this site that will tell you why scumhunting is protown, I shouldn’t need to convince you by way of this thread.
You have made several slips that could be construed as scum behaviour. I do discount this evidence entirely as I do not believe Freudian slips to be of much substance. While it is unfortunate for you (and town if you are town) that this has happened, as some people are easily swayed by this type of evidence, I implore you to not let it affect your utility to the town by causing you to go defence mode. Rather, pick your best read, and stick to them like a limpet. Also proof read your posts just to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
What I told Threest in regard to OMGUS is equally relevant to you if not more, as (don’t quote me on this) your OMGUS was more explicit. Your vote is not a bargaining chip, it is a tool for pressuring and lynching.
Your idea that lynching useless town is better than lynching useful town does hold some merit, but honestly it shouldn’t influence the equation that much.
I just finished reading your filter and your posts are all stuck in the past addressing Threesr, please bring some more up to date content to the table.
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@OmniEulogy
Your contribution has been almost entirely limited to the Threesr/Corazon debacle. This is not an untapped vein to begin with, regardless of where your vote lies, please contribute elsewhere. You mentioned being suspicious of FC?
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@Orangeremi
Do you still believe it is not beneficial for mafia to lurk? You shouldn’t, as you’d be wrong. As I have done before, I would point you to the resources available on this topic on this very forum. Lurking bad. Speaking of which, you still only have a one page filter. Admittedly my filter is only two pages, but your one page only has 1-2 posts of any substance.
Step up if you’re town, continue to stagnate if you’re scum.
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@Sylencia
I have not yet read your filter yet but you need to step up now as you have very little time left before you need to vote. You are actually a mildly scummy read for me in that the only real information I have on you is that you have claimed a legitimate reason to lurk. You will need to put a lot of effort in if you want your words to stay strong in your absence.
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@Kickstart
I'm afraid I didn't make myself clear, though you were you for an update anyway XD
I asked you because you've played the most games, how are the players in the current game acting in comparison to when you've played with them before? I assume you've run into at least one in your travels?
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@Shz
Your most recent post about lynch benefits is IMO your first redeeming post, but it's a goldie. Two or three more posts like that and I'll take you off my to-lynch list.
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@Chrom
I have absolutely zero problem currently with the way you conduct yourself. Your approach is direct, and simple. I begin to suspect they are a little forced, as I can't imagine anyone that is this selective in the data they choose to interpret wanting to play a ridiculously complex game like mafia, but for now you serve a purpose (that sounds more cold than I mean it  ).
I would normally brush your commentary aside, but I feel that while I have been very active, I have given next to nothing on my actual perspective. So that you have a standard to later judge my actions by, I will respond.
"I dislike your post saying that we should "expect a town lynch". Good towns can find scum d1. Good players can be correct in their reads with over "40%" certainty. Your post reads like you're not going to even try to find scum."
Assuming you are town, you should start the game with a neutral 25% suspicion of everyone (you are the 13th player). Through day one, people will pave the way with false bravado and bluster, but ultimately, day one only serves to identify the people you are playing with. I now have a feel for your styles, an have limited information about what you can and cannot do without bringing the scumhunt to your door. There is incredibly little actually being done, and evidence is inconclusive. I admit, I don't know the actual statistics, but I assume the chances of lynching scum on day one is 25% or less. I believe the inputs for this equation are actually very complex, but I'll try and simplify and communicate the little I do understand.
You posit that 'good' town can find scum d1. This is true, and that should be a focus, but this is unlikely to happen because:
1) - Good scum are approximately equally as abundant good town. For every master inspector there is an escape artist. Your argument from town competency is counteracted.
2) - The scum are manipulating our vote. Three informed votes have a lot of sway in the uninformed majority.
As I hope to have adequately expressed above, it is actually incredibly optimistic to expect a day one scum lynch. On top of this, any scum lynches could be the result of an early bus, which leaves the scum with all the cards. I expect the number of successful scum lynches that do not involve some more advanced mafia play are even less than the 20-25% mentioned earlier.
Mafia, much like starcraft, is a game with phases. I play macrozerg, I win with broodlord infestor. Trying to 6pool out a win on day one is not my style.
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@Corazon
The information is there for the reading.
Please don't surrender if you are town, the voting is inconclusive. People have been pressuring with their votes all day, the only difference here is that they all decided to do it to the same person. Sheeping this hard this early is crazy and almost certainly scum manipulation. Despite your play being scummy, I would prefer someone else get the lynch just so that the sheeple will stop being so lazy and keep making cases. That a supposed majority have settled on one person this early is IMO retarded, people need to throw down the hivemind mentality.
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I am writing up a defense of Corazon ATM. It's long, and complex. I expect people to put in the effort to read it, as I am spending a good amount of time writing it. We still have 15 hours or so (I think) before lynching, let's make them count!
I would have preferred to write a case on someone but I think it's more important at this moment to get town back to actively scum hunting.
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In defence of Corazon:
I conduct this defence with the caveat that I don’t actually think Corazon is innocent. I have a scum read on him, though I lack the confidence some of you display. My reasons for the defence will be explained shortly. I acknowledge that this could be construed as an attempt to sew confusion, to obtain a no-lynch, or to defend a scum buddy. I am faced with the option of either submitting this defence which I believe will benefit the town, or sit here and let a suboptimal state of play for town continue. I choose the former because I believe my position as town is strong enough to attempt something like this without having the bandwagon come knocking, I hope I am right.
I admit that Corazon is a decent lynch target. He has been selective with input, and has played the survival game more than the town game. He also claimed nub status, OMGUSed Aquanim, has questioned the use of pressure voting, has focussed in on the next biggest target (Threesr), shown that he actively aims for a no-lynch, AND HAS ADMITTED HE IS MAFIA.
Now, we have five competing hypotheses:
1) Corazon is good town.
2) Corazon is bad town.
3) Corazon is good mafia.
4) Corazon is bad mafia.
5) Corazon is a serial killer.
I think (and no offense intended), that we can rule out options one and three. There are more effective ways to hunt scum, and more effective ways to troll this game to pieces. I also rule out the possibility of SK due to it being unlikely, and not being in our best interest to look for SK over scum. That leaves options two and four: bad town or bad scum. I’m sorry Corazon, but you have not applied yourself to the same extent that some others have, you are behind due to your inadequate understanding of the meta coming in.
So we now have two competing hypotheses. Of the evidence I have mentioned earlier, the following can easily be interpreted for both a bad town and bad scum perspective:
- Claimed nub status
- OMGUSed Aquanim
- Misunderstood the value of pressure voting
- Got caught in a shit flinging fight with the other bottom dweller
- Aiming for a no-lynch
He is a noob, this is his first game, these behaviours are to be expected, and he is not alone in demonstrating them. His demeanour in itself does lead be to a mild scum read, but I have other reads that are just as salient if not more so.
This leads to the catalyst for the current bandwagon situation: the slip.
Do I think it means something? Maybe, I’d be impressed at this betrayal of the cognitions if it were. How much does this make him mafia? Not much. The only reason I’d jump on this case over others is if I was looking for an easy way out or I was scum.
My problem with the slip evidence is that it is not nearly as powerful as people think it is. I honestly don’t know much about Freudian parapraxis despite studying psychology, but I do know they are frequently used by cognitive misers to sling mud. People want the case to fall into their laps, and I am strongly opposed to such an unthinking outcome. The amount of information being transmitted at any one time in the brain is phenomenal, and the workings are often counterintuitive.
“BUT SPAG HE SAID HE WAS SCUM… HE BLOODY WELL SAID IT FFS!”
Miscognitions such as the current one are more likely to happen when someone is comfortable and lazy than is they are intensely monitoring their actions. Do you agree? Well then is this slip not evidence of his innocence? Seriously, if I were scum I’d bloody spell check.
Need more evidence?
On December 20 2012 09:29 OmniEulogy wrote:
##Vote: cDgCorazon He slipped up so badly I can't believe it was a mistake.
This slip by OmniEulogy also makes some sort of confangled sense… He believes that Corazon deliberately slipped in order to… err… kick my arse into launching this very defence? Thereby extending my protection over this seemingly scrabbly noob? No. It does not make sense for someone to think that, and thus we can dismiss the potential for this slip to mean anything more than a slip of the tongue. Corazon’s slip of course doesn’t have such a conclusive explanation, but considering the likelihood of it not being the perfect case (where he accidentally confesses), the disputed evidence shouldn’t count for much. I upped my estimate of his guilt up 2%, from the 26% I had written previously. I believe this estimate is more than reasonable.
“BUT SPAG, YOU SAID YOU THOUGHT HE WAS SCUMMY, WHY YOU DEFEND HIM YOU NOOBSCUMLOL?”
Because of three reasons:
1) By locking in our votes this early we are wasting time in day one. This reason would apply to if we voted this early for any player, even if they were my top read. This time could be used generating information for day two by pressuring other players. When the time for lynching comes, from this perspective I would gladly bandwagon the shit out of Corazon.
2) This one is more complex. Basically, this reason hinges on me being correct in my assumption that town are lynched day one 75-80% of the time. This assumption is open to dispute, so if you disagree, please, just find the numbers (ICBF). If the initial lynch is so unlikely to be successful, would it not be smart to change our vote from what we have been led to through the influence of the mafia. This actually comes surprisingly close to my beloved Monty Hall problem (look it up on Wikipedia if you haven’t heard of it).
3) The fact that there is almost zero effort by anyone to change the subject of our lynchery screams silently as to the lack of frustration expressed by covert scum.
By lynching this early with no resistance, not only are we denying ourselves the opportunity to collect more data for day two, we are almost certainly doing the scum’s jobs for them. This third argument, which I just thought of as I was typing my second, has actually changed my perspective of Corazon to the most probable towny here bar none. There is no trio of scum here skilled enough to resist tampering with the lynch of their scum buddy, and if there is we’ve almost certainly lost.
In conclusion; assuming your opponent is bad enough to hand you the kryptonite when their assumed disposition (caution) would incline them to do otherwise is foolishness. The majority of Corazon’s behaviour is equally plausible in a bad-town hypothesis, and can pretty much be discarded. We should not lock in votes this early as it discourages pro-town behaviour. If my assumptions are to be believed, the first target we are lead to is almost certainly not going to be scum, and therefore we should take a stab at a second case. Finally, the fact that I am the only one sticking up for this guy tells me that he is not scum, as a bussing at this level is unlikely.
I want responses particularly from those people voting for him. I also want activity that is centered around someone other than Corazon and Threesr. It is that are avoiding the dispute that you need to look for.
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how long until lynching? I need to plan logistics.
@Mocsta
My read on Threesr mirror's Kickstart's, though I by no means condone Kickstart's lurking (still one page filter!?). The battle between Threesr and Conazon reminds me of my only other game. Both Kush and WeeTee were conspicuously weak players and everyone was gunning them down. I launched a defense similar to the one I just threw out, and while WeeTee got lynched (innocent), Kush (also innocent) managed to stay alive and we had scum gg after the second night. People that are new read too far into other noob's actions, it's a complex element that people in higher level games don't need to worry about as much.
While I am not saying that there is absolutely zero chance of these players being scum, I think that the information available points to them just being bad town. With Threesr, it's the fact he's been modkilled for lurking that gives me the feeling his obnoxious internet persona is not a skilfully crafted scumshield.
On top of me actually thinking neither of them scum, I also think it's best for the town if we talk about other people regardless of their level of guilt, as if either of them is scum they are almost certainly a weak one, and not likely to stay off our radar for long.
We waste time talking about points that have already been said, both players have been drilled to death. My inclination is to believe that the lurkers hold at least 1-2 mafia, as they have had no reason to step up because Threesr and Corazon have been taking all the heat. By being complacent and lazily voting for the conspicuous, we have let too many people fade into the background.
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I was wondering if it would come. I'll have a read Aquinim, expect a response soon.
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I will start by stating that I have been all too aware of my inactivity pertaining to scum-hunting, I may have even mentioned it a couple of times. I have actively flaunted my strong town position, and other than cakepie, I don't think I've heard a single complaint. I am by no means saying you are incorrect to attack me, I actually admire the ambition, as I was starting to feel comfortable. I've read somewhere it's best not to address every point, I'll try not to heap too much reasoning on you, but if I miss anything important, feel free to ask again. //fluff
My contribution:
My first issue is that you say I have done nothing useful. This is false. My contribution is substantial, you have just turned a blind eye to the benefits the town has wrought. I have not accused a single soul, and for good reason. People that are pressured say stupid things, that are misinterpreted by an overeager inquisition. I am more interested in observing the flow of the game until I feel I can make a solid case that will actually change minds, than in beating a horse beyond death.
In Mafia there is always going to be people that pressure, and people that don't. The people that don't are seen as lurkers, but I would draw an exception for myself. I have contributed an enormous amount of brain power to this game, though I guess my approach is not as straightforward as yours. I play support. I am the medivac to your marine. I try to keep the unbridled enthusiasm of Newb Town from bandwagonning themselves to death by deception.
I try to keep people active without making them defensive (see how that worked out for Threesr and Corazon?). This is the job I set myself in the absence of actual cases. I was assuming that if my performance was unsatisfactory I would be given a warning before getting hard cased, but this works for me too, your case will give everyone the measure of both me and you, so no hard feelings.
My Lectures serve to try and keep the town machine running smoothely, and for people to learn. I guess I’m coaching a little, but it’s not as if I’ve addressed any issues that weren’t pertinent to the current game. I like to think I’ve done more scumhunting by calling others to do so, but of course, that BS won’t fly when trying to convince someone else of this.
Basically
1) I believe by moving people to action I am effectively scum hunting
2) Up until now I saw no reason to try to appear more town
I am more than capable of throwing weak case after weak case at someone, but I don’t like producing weak cases and avoid it if possible. I enjoy the respect I get as someone that offers genuine insight, and there have been multiple examples of people misconstruing these weak attacks as scum play. I understand they are not scummy, but I still do not want to besmirch my good name by offering up anything I don’t actually believe, and don’t expect you to believe. Basically, I saw no reason to change the playstyle I am comfortable with so I didn’t. Such an absence of scumhunting is conspicuous, and as I said before, I knew that I wasn’t actively scumhunting. I did however, underestimate the upset it would cause when someone realised for real.
My meta:
When you point to my activity in my previous game, I played different because I was against different people. In particular, Shady Sands was being both a lead town and an illogical player. He ended up being mafia, it was an easy pickup. His strategy was aggressive, and I needed to shut him down before he got a handle on town. In this game there is no such threat that I can see, and so I have not acted in the same way. I have up until this point been afforded the respect of a semiconfirmed town, and everything has run smoothly. I expect people will be hammering me for reads now, this is also okay.
Lists:
I use lists for my memory, I am fond of them but my friend that plays mafia think they are bad as they are a scum tell. When I tell people to ignore the list, I am telling you that my contribution will be substantial with or without the lists. People see others making lists and have heard this is a scum tell so they assume that the people making lists are scum. The reason it is a scum tell is that people use it to hide their inactivity, which was not my intent and has not been the outcome. You do not have a leg to stand on in this regard.
Rebuke of Mocsta's Early Town Tells:
He was potentially misleading town, and setting himself up to take control. I stopped him the same way I did SS, though I did not make a case out of it because there wasn't one.
Theory of Town and Scum:
I have not stated my thoughts but that does not mean I haven't devoted a lot of time developing them. I'm confirming with a large degree of confidence that neither Threesr nor Corazon are scum. This degree of confidence is a big deal for a meticulous SOAB like me. I've determined that Chromatiacally, Aquinim, Cakepie, and Mocsta will need to be dealt with later rather than now if they happen to be scum. That's narrowed the list of lynchable candidates down to six for me, this is no small analysis! Your assertion that I have not developed any theory is BS. Rather than flaunt every thought that tickles my ol' brain I know my understanding will only get better with time, and voting now is pretentious or whimsical.
Asking Kickstart for meta reads:
You say this wasn’t useful. Surely you could see the potential of such a move? I am lighting a fire under a lurker, and attempting to mine a new vein of data. As far as post efficiency goes you can’t fault me on this.
“So Spag thinks that the best way to get town back to scumhunting is to defend someone under pressure, not make a case himself? Words fail me.”
In this particular instance this is exactly what I thought. I don’t have any really solid cases, I am still narrowing down suspects. Any case I would post at that point would likely fall on deaf ears and I really believed I could benefit town by taking pressure off of the obvious targets and spreading the suspicion around.
"Spag's whole "I'm defending Corazon but still happy to vote for him" BS is a classic scum move too - keeping his options open for new developments so he doesn't have to contradict himself later. I'm not saying that town would never do this, but it's pretty damn scummy."
I am no longer happy to vote for Corazon which I believe I expressed in the same post. Through writing the post I came to the conclusion that he is the towniest person here, and I will stand by that statement. I am sorry I did not go back through and edit for consistency, I was tired after doing a LOT of legwork for this game. You’re welcome.
If I were scum I would likely push my way through the pain barrier and put on the façade of scum-hunting in order to fit in with town. I am not above pretending to be productive if I roll scum and that’s in my job description.
Do I draw an enormous double standard? Definitely.
Do I contribute to town in every other way I can think of, above and beyond the sum contribution of most players? Absolutely.
Being active but not scum-hunting reeks of incompetence if you are a mafia. It usually indicated incompetence in a townie too. I am not incompetent. Your logic is simple and effective, much like Chrom’s, but I function in a different way to you, and you have to admit that a scum Spag also does not make sense with your predefined expectations. A scum Spag would do everything in his power to appear useful while hindering town. I have gone out of my way to help town in ways that are not directly measurable. Have I even tried to sway the vote of anyone other than away from Threesr and Corazon? I have only tried to optimise town as a whole at the expense of personal survivability.
Please people, go through everything said against me and give thoughts on what I haven't adequately explained. I need hide nothing. If you want reads I'll give you the best I have on those you ask. I'm up for two more hours before going to bed. I'll need to get up earlier than normal to be present for or near the lynching. I have a commitment but I'm not sure exactly whether it will infringe on mafia.
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get your questions in guys ASAP, I don't want to leave them unanswered.
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I would be attacking people with argument I expect to be easily answered. I would put less effort into pulling people up by the boot-straps and more into either working towards a more advanced play like falsely pressuring a scum buddy, or simply tearing through people with hastily constructed arguments. I would disregard more difficult concepts when it suited me in order to ramp up the pressure and force slips from innocents. I would be all over any pseudo evidence that people slip up like Corazon's I AM A MAFIA slip. If Corazon was actually mafia I'd bus him and take no hit from anyone.
Note: this is not how I will play my next scum game. This is what I would have done this game if I had rolled scum.
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Okay OmniEulogy next.
Someone making an explicit display of jumping through hoops to improve townplay is not a scumtell. Someone jumping through hoops to save anyone is not a scumtell fullstop. It is a bold scum that stands up for a buddy knowing fullwell that if things go wrong, they have not just sacrificed their worst member, two of their total members, leaving their last brother alone vs oh so many town.
I honestly find the rate at which you bandwagon alarming. That is either lazy town behaviour or scum behaviour IMO. You have just gone up in my reads. I am not OMGUSing you, other criticisms/votes have been reasoned, and so I have not retaliated. Yours are not. You write almost with a sigh of relief as if this new wagon solved a problem for you.
- You realised you were not on my 'lynch later' list
- You were having difficulty with the Corazon scenario because either he is mafia (which I doubt), or one of your scummy friends or yourself had invested too deeply in his lynching.
- You insult my competency in order to lower influence of my words
- It's interesting that you hold a standard of "lynch later" for other active players, but hold no such thing for me. I have also been forced to talk at length and will be forced to slip if I continue at this rate.
I have given you very good reasons why I think both Threesr and Corazon are town. If you can't respond to this reasoning, I will assume you did not give them adequate time and would ask you to go read them again. At no point did I say I believe Corazon to be a skilled Town player. You seem to be playing this game at a very simple level and I can't say I don't believe your rash input is not tactically motivated. You are now my top read.
##FoS: OmniEulogy
I will be trawling through your filter tomorrow.
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Bugger tomorrow IDGAF
To play devils advocate for Theesr on his stance on lurkers. I could see scum using LAL to their advantage and making us waste most of D1 while they play it safe and then bandwagon a lurker, we lynch said lurker he turns up to be town and if things have really gone poorly we learn nothing and scum comes out ahead of us on D1.
I agree with Kickstart entirely when he says we should push scum reads over policy lynches. Truthfully I'm more worried about anybody who thinks we should lynch lurkers without second thought.
While I actually liked the last part and even took a note in the satisfactory column, Omni does little here but say a bunch of safe stuff. He came across as a little bold when he proclaimed his disapproval of thoughtless lynching, but in retrospect this is actually a very safe move.
(points finger at Threesr and Corazon)
Another safe play. These guys were destined to get it. I predicted the shitstorm (though admittedly I named Shz as well), if the info was available to me it was available to Omni. Targeting the weaker town is a move that a scum naturally does whether they are new or not. What would you do if you were scum?
If he latched onto Corazon because he realized he would be extremely easy to put him under suspicion. (followed by Corazon actually stating he's Mafia) I can't really see Corazon being town but if he is and has just made every mistake he could then my reason behind Theesr being shitty town would disappear and he would become my #1 scum read instead of #1 shitty town
See how if Corazon comes up innocent (which I think he will) then Omni has set the stage to move onto the next easiest player. Even if these players were scum they would pose very little threat. This is positioning for an incredibly strong day three for the mafia, leaving 2-3 strong players, a bunch of lurkers, and zero leads.
Also Chunk is the only one who has tried to defend Corazon but hasn't come completely out and said he thinks he's innocent, just that with ALL the evidence he still can't vote for him? I'm going to stick with Corazon as my #1 scum read but Chunk seems suspicious just based on that to me.
More bagging on the lowest players. The big three are common knowledge and a safe sell at the point of writing the above quote. Omni continues to say absolutely nothing at all risky. He is waiting for things to be safe and then stating the obvious. He openly displays all the signs of posing bluster I resent to demonstrate myself.
The thing is we don't know if SK is even in the game. If he is Mocsta could very well be the SK and just trying to get along with everybody and do his best to scumhunt to curve suspicion, I could be the SK for pushing my idea for a lynch on you, shz could be the SK for generating reasons for why we should lynch multiple people. This early it is way too hard to tell how a 3rd party would play. You've given us the most reads as scum out of everybody from my point of view, and as we've discussed right now we have the most to gain from your lynch.
This is actually the one decent thing I've heard from him all game. I endorse this message.
If anybody can clearly give us a way to gain more information while at the same time getting rid of suspicion of Corazon I am all for it. I don't want to lynch somebody who could be town just because we all tunnel him. Let's try and get some information from other lurkers. What do they think of the current situation ect.
See this? This is someone that has the gall to ask for someone to do the very thing I have been doing, then nails me for it (but only after someone else does... can't be too safe).
You have good points Spaghetticus but it doesn't really change my mind. People did come to his defense and tried to counter by voting for Threesr.
Corazon started off the game saying he hoped D1 would be quiet and peaceful and no real information should come out during it which also seems a little scummy as everybody else started off hoping for some good conversation and to build up leads. Not wait for N1/D2 where we lose somebody and have no information about why they die.
The fact that he's new CAN explain these things but I refuse to believe he is dumb. I think he thought it out and tried to come across as reasonable. I've already said I want to start going after the lurkers with our remaining time D1 and if we find something that removes Corazon from suspicion so be it.
My vote is not locked yet it is just on the person I find most likely to be scum. I don't think he's past the point of no return either. I believe the vote count is 5 for Corazon and 3 for Threesr at the moment. and as I said Threesr would be my #2 if it weren't for the fact that it wouldn't make any sense for both him and Corazon to be scum.
I'd like Corazon to tell us his top scum reads, and why they seem to be.
I'd also like to note to Spaghetticus and everybody else that if you are looking for more people who came to Corazon's defense, Orangeremi tried to make a case of why Corazon wasn't scum and went back to lurking. I'd like to actually hear why Orangeremi refused to give us an idea of who his top scum reads were and why he didn't actually say why Corazon wasn't acting scummy. The fact that he then put out the same three names for his top scum reads that everybody else had and then went into hiding again is also suspicious.
In Orangeremi's own words "Instead of looking for scum players, they would be making unjustified claims hoping others hop wagon in an attempt to get an innocent player lynched." and then "Otherwise, I have a slight suspicion of Sylencia that is based solely on a hunch and little to no evidence."
based on that... ##FOS Orangeremi
This defense of his vote almost seems like he's committing to a lynch, until you realise he was just waiting for a better lynch for scum to present itself. Yes I believe I'm a bigger prize than Corazon's entirely compromised town play, because I have a better position, and because I play more like a blue role would (less aggression).
I was ready to tunnel Corazon until your horrid defense to Aqua's case. 100% believe he is scum. Doesn't mean I'm not going to look for other scum though.
My defense was not horrid. I take offense.
and if by bandwagon you mean make the case and stick with it for 30~ hours while continuing to bring up new material that hasn't been said. Yup total bandwagon. I ignore the original vote on him as a way to gauge how he reacts and gets conversation started. He slips - argues with Threesr and then I make the 3rd vote on him (2nd with evidence) and push for others to also vote and put pressure on him.
On a person which the zeitgeist favours as a bandwagon. I don't care how long you spent blustering at the obvious pickups of non-town behaviour. The guy's level of play was inadequate and the case made itself. Do you really think his door would not have been knocked down without you? He was in for pressure, from you or otherwise. You wasted your time while pretending to contribute. Scummy.
I don't think I have to play this game at a higher level than simple. It establishes me as town, helps in scum hunts and I give my input about how people are acting and how I feel about them. Why would I try to be more complex than that in my first game? I'd just confuse people and myself.
"I don't know if I'm doing the right thing, so I will assume that I am and not try to improve my play, as playing dumb will convince people I'm town."
I am actually genuinely impressed with your expression here, regardless of your alignment. The problem I have is that you are pushing to lynch me and my two best town reads because of your failure to look deeper. Try harder.
When you address me or speak of me in any way, please refrain from throwing emotional garbage about. It makes me like you more if you don't. Tell me what's wrong with what I said, not how wrong it is. Words without reason are meaningless fluff, or peripheral associative priming depending on who the listener is. A townie should have logic behind his claims.
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On December 20 2012 23:16 threesr wrote:
So Orangeremi has contributed absolutely nothing for the entire game. Now he may not even make a vote today and hes had a ridiculous amount of time in this game to make a decision. wtf
I believe I tried to address his no-lynch attitude earlier but I got no response and then subsequently gunned down for it. Maybe I should have followed that up?
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Okay I'm off to bed for reals. I look forward to further discourse in the morning 
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EPT
