EPT/obs
Newbie Mini Mafia XXXII
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On December 02 2012 15:49 yamato77 wrote: I want to play mafia but I'm not sure if people think playing more would help or obsing. From my own experience, I think you need to play a couple games, realize you're terrible at this, then play more or obs some with that knowledge. At that point, you'll learn a lot more cause you'll start understanding what you need to be looking for. I don't think obsing would be that great without some experience first  | ||
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On December 02 2012 15:56 Kickstart wrote: I am just gonna have to rage at everyone I think, gotta keep my meta going. You could try to call people retarded more than once per post :D Or try something like "retarded retard" to really emphasize your point. | ||
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*edit* also, thanks for changing the time <3<3 | ||
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On December 04 2012 08:34 AxleGreaser wrote: always fun, I thought that was the whole point/intention. Maybe someone hates himself and this game and wants to punish himself by playing it. | ||
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Now on to CC's questions... =P 1. I've played 2 games of mafia, NMM XXVIII and XXX, town in both. First was vig, second vt. I obs'd a good amount of chrono until it became overwhelming (think I got 140 pages in then my head exploded) and all of last NMM, and some of paranoid. Played a lot of sc2mafia the past week or two which probably translates to shit for TL mafia skills, but we'll see. 2. No idea cheese, I feel like that scenario would have to be played out however it should be at the time. I can't see myself leaning one way or the other 100% of the time =/ Probably lean towards lurker lynch I guess? minor-moderate is going to be pretty subjective... 3. Green. I'll let you figure out why (spoiler: it's cause I'm a genius). | ||
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On December 04 2012 10:26 Arnarnion wrote: Alright 1) I haven't played a game yet, but I did obs XXXII 2) I am of the opinion that lynches should be saved for top scum reads and that removing inactive players might not be as productive for town as it is for scum, since were just doing their work for them. 3)(Oats)- Don't give me none of that pie or cheesecake, the only true dessert is ice cream. (CC)- Green. Regarding #2, what about scum who lurk? I think that's the point of it. Obviously if we knew all lurkers were town we'd never want to lynch them over a semi-scummy player. | ||
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On December 04 2012 11:06 Kickstart wrote: O yeah that reminds me, I am down for lynching Oats due to his play last game. Anyone else? You're down for lynching strictly based on his play from last game (where he was town) rather than scum hunting and lynching your biggest scum read? What exactly do you expect to get from this? | ||
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On December 04 2012 11:18 Kickstart wrote: @Rad So if I was actually serious about what I had said what would you have done? I'd have awaited your answer and asked you more questions or dropped it depending on if I thought I had a scum read on it? | ||
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On December 04 2012 11:29 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: What did Kick's "shit idea" tell you in terms of alignment? If Kick truly believed he wanted to lynch Oats for behavior last game, is that scum motivated? @Sylencia Come dip your feet in the water of discussion, it's fine once you get used to it. Yes, lynching someone strictly based on their play in a previous game seems stupid. Town wants to lynch scum, not shoot in the dark and hope. Scum wants to do stupid shit like lynch the easy target. Do you read that idea differently? Would you be ok with the idea of lynching oats due to his play last game? | ||
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On December 04 2012 11:40 AxleGreaser wrote: The bit you quoted does not seem entirely related to the question asked which I find strange. Every one starts off equally scummy. As inconsistencies and evidence mounts for a likely lynch candidate it get more and more scummy. Lurking longer and longer does too. Often if town plays town well enough pressure mounts and enough evidence mounts to lynch someone who has posted lot of inconsistent information. Something i dont know is, if the better players can just push a weaker player into going all mixed up. This is where town comes in, I must trust the players who are better than me to watch one another, They will catch when the other ones are just cracking the weakest link, no matter what alignment they are. Indeed there are so many questions, int hat regard that I don't actually see the best way forward for me. There appear to be some rather a large gaps in skill level. You made good reads from last NMM game, any reason you're announcing yourself as a lesser skilled player? | ||
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Axle, I think what I said to you in last NMM QT is starting to make sense now. Shit's a lot more real in game. However, you DID make good reads last game (without even reading the QT until later, right?) so keep that in mind and just focus on that. This will help town because: 1. If you're town, your reads are good or 2. If you're scum, town gets to read your original thoughts rather than you just playing the newbie card and sheeping. Don't hold back thinking others are just straight up better than you, waiting for them to make a move. | ||
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On December 04 2012 12:39 Oatsmaster wrote: Lol if he is scum, why does he want to help town? Of course if he's scum he doesn't want to help town. That wasn't the point. Point is being open about shit is win/win for town. It's his choice how to play, but the newbie card is worthless to town. | ||
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On December 04 2012 12:47 Kickstart wrote: I may be too early to jump the gun on thinking yamato is being scummy, but I haven't liked his incessant policy talk and now he just jumps on someone who he is badgering. Thoughts everyone? I think he goes red with anger easily and if town, confirmation bias will kill his ability to reason. However, his actions are pushing for conversation and that's a good thing (especially at the beginning). If axle feels pressured to talk more, great, and if he doesn't, we can read the situation based on that. I don't really like how you stopped it early on though. Would you prefer yamato ask a question, get ignored, and drop it? | ||
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@kick Not sure what else to say to you about your concerns with me but TBH that's just my play style. I'm a bit embarrassed that I totally missed the jkjk but what happens is I read something really stupid and then feel the need to jump on it immediately. Feel free to glance over my previous games (XXIX and XXX) if you'd like to see this in action. @CC 1. "I have no idea who to lynch, but I can justify it because of this post!" - this hasn't happened, why even speculate that it will happen? What's the point of casting suspicion on me for something I haven't even done? 2. If kick's idea was sincere, I'd have major problems with it (as I've already said). My concern there was your quoting "shit idea" as if it wasn't one. I thought perhaps you read his idea differently than how I did, thus my question. 3. Kick literally FoS's yamato then immediately turns around and says "weeelll maybe I'm being too harsh, what's everyone else's thoughts?" Looks like useless trying to be useful. I wanted to get him to talk more about it instead of letting him push it back out onto everyone else. Thoughts so far: - leaning scum on kick - just my gut initial feeling, I'm going to focus more on looking into it when I have time after work tonight - leaning town on yamato - he's acting just like last game IMO, I feel like he'd have to change things up if he were scum - mind blown trying to understand axle, but I'm happy that he's trying now (his change feels super newbie town, so leaning town) and want to see where he goes with his oats discussion - leaning town on CC, I feel like he was much less confrontational in his scum game and he's asking good questions Other reads are pretty null Going to be fairly lurky today, until tonight when I'm off work and can focus on everything, but wanted to get this post out there in the meantime. I will try to get chances throughout the day to respond when possible. | ||
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I really want to hear more from a couple people in particular. @jidolboy You're for lynching a lurker day 2, but not day 1. Your play so far has been extremely... absent. Any particular reason? Are you planning on picking up the pace on day 2? @Sylencia You seem seem to have a lot of insightful things to say, but are holding back. You do realize that you're not just here to solve everything on your own, you need to help us determine if you're town or not, and if you're town, you could help a lot by talking more. Maybe jump in and give some reads? | ||
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I was about to ask him wtf he was talking about, but then I realized (I think) he means "green" as in "new, inexperienced" and making a connection between only having obs'd something and favorite color being green?? Get it nudge wink?? Or I could have just made all that up in my head... | ||
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On December 05 2012 10:16 jidolboy wrote: Not sure what you mean "lynching a lurker day 2" As far as I know, Day 2 has not started and I have not made any vote to lynch anyone. If you mean why I am lynching a lurker Day 2 but not on Day 1.. Well I never said I would not lynch anyone on Day 1. I said it all would depend My play seemed like a absent because everytime I checked out this thread, it seemed many users were arguing among each other so there were no place for me to enter the conversation. But earlier, I gave my honest opinions if that counts :p. I'll probably post more as time goes by I was referring to your opening post: On December 04 2012 10:33 jidolboy wrote: 1. My first game here! :o 2. I would lynch a lurker but not on D1 because lack of information. Other days, Yes I am in favor more so than minor scumbead. Someone not contributing, or contributing very little has no value to the town IMO. But then... I have no experience in this field I might be wrong :o 3. Black / I don't like pie and cheesecake You actually DID say you would not lynch a lurker D1. Those exact words... Which is it? | ||
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On December 05 2012 10:28 jidolboy wrote: At the time of the opening post, I did not know what would happen so I just said I would not lynch anyone without very much thought. However after reading some of the post, I realized that I was wrong. You can see I changed my mind quickly as seen here so YES. I would lynch a lurker on Day 1 What do you mean you "did not know what would happen"? You said it's your first game on TL, is it your first game ever? Or just here? | ||
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On December 05 2012 10:44 AxleGreaser wrote: Guys you can flap around me all you like. Save your energy. The only evidence I will consider is the evidence I found before I indicated, I had any idea what the solution was. What are you referring to here? O.o | ||
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Ahh, gotcha. Would you mind sharing your scum read? Both you and Sylencia have now mentioned that you have a scum read of some sort, and both of you seem to feel the need to hide it. Any reason you're holding back? | ||
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Great case Axle /clap Fully support it. | ||
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PMing NOT allowed jidol, don't do it ^^ | ||
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@jidolboy Anyway, I think it's good to get reads out and let people discuss. That way we know what you're thinking, perhaps it helps further our own thoughts, and we get better reads on you because you're being open. If it's not a super strong read, treat it as such, but be open about it. | ||
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Why are you being such a dick constantly? If someone has a scum read on you, and you're town, don't get so offended. We're all trying to find scum, and not all of us have amazing reads. I get that you wanted to keep your meta identical to last game, but shit, is that really how you want to play this out? | ||
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On December 05 2012 11:46 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Pretty suspect of Arn right now because he sheeped that Kick wagon so hard with a bunch of WIFOM and wall of text. I lol'd so hard. <3 Kickstart. Hey Rad, waddaya make of all this? @CC I thought your case was half good. I'm kinda curious about the flip on yamato (not sure if I believe his explanation or not), and the idea of thinking of everyone as town and searching for scum is sooo... I dunno, "dreamy"? Like, really? He does that? I agree with you in that I'm paranoid as fuck as town and everyone is scum to me (though I feel I'm getting a bit better at my reads TBH). Claiming he's town - eh, everyone does that. Null. On his Kickstart case - ehh, I took it as a pressure move, and I wanted to see more out of kickstart anyway so I thought it was a good move. I've seen debears throw out terrible cases (for example, against me in my first newbie) that got me to talk a lot. I'll be honest, oats feels unreadable from a meta standpoint. I watched him last game, thought he was scum until people told me otherwise. Feels very similar this game. I have to decide what I think about that "slip" you caught cause it's the major non-meta point that just doesn't make sense to me. Regarding everything else that's going on, need to read through arn's case, and can't wait for axle to make sense because I honestly believe he's newbie town that will probably have some mind blowing read if he can tell us in english. | ||
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What makes you think there's a possibility of no scum? (I actually had this thought in the chrono game, but it's heavily themed). This game has the following setup possibilities: Goon + Roleblocker, Doctor + Cop, five Townies 2 Goons, Cop, Named VT + five Townies 2 Goons, Doctor, Named VT + five Townies Goon + Roleblocker, two Named VT + five Townies As you can see, there's no setup possibility of 9 townies. Do you think maybe your reads might just be a little bit off (by 2 people)? Maybe you could spend your time on figuring out who's scum (since there are exactly 2 of them) as opposed to making the most confusing posts I've ever seen | ||
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On December 05 2012 13:50 Kickstart wrote: ##AxleGreaser Because dumb. On December 05 2012 13:51 Kickstart wrote: ebwop: woops ##Vote: AxleGreaser I'm curious, kick. Do you want to vote for people you think are scum, or people you think are dumb? (oh wait, we just found out the answer to that) ##Vote: Kickstart | ||
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Last game didn't work out so well for him. He was scum, got caught, and lost the game. For any of you who followed this, perhaps you'll remember a bit about how it was played out. He was an ass, and he has claimed (before this game) that this would continue to be his meta. I see some of you are fooled by it, but all you have to do is read his previous game and note that the differences aren't all that drastic. Scum doesn't care who dies, as long as it's town From NMM XXXI: On November 29 2012 13:31 Kickstart wrote: Don't think this really needs too much justification but I will give a bit anyways. Bad play since beginning, suspicious and scummy. After numerous requests to shape up from many people he is still unable to and is still sheeping his vote around while making no real cases on anyone (I am sorry but some crap case that you yourself are the first to dismiss shortly after you make it don't count). You have had ample opportunity to change my mind by scum hunting and posting a decent case on anyone. Since you refuse to do so and your most recent posts are just more evidence that you refuse to do so I am putting my vote on you. You still have time to scum hunt and start playing the game - I suggest you do so. ##vote: Oatsmaster Here he votes oats not because he feels oats is scum (everyone can use the word "scummy"), but because oats isn't being productive town. NOT a reason to vote town. This is of course the prelude to today's WTF moment of: On December 05 2012 13:50 Kickstart wrote: ##AxleGreaser Because dumb. "So Rad, if kick did this shit last game, why would he do it this game?" Let me point you to promo's huge post giving him and helo some suggestions: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381931¤tpage=83#1660 Some interesting things to note (that I think are noticably different from his last game and this game): 1. "You needed to make your reads and stick to them. Scum often want to sit back and allow town to make cases for them, you needed to make your cases stronger and to push them instead of being wishy washy." As scum, he needs to change his meta to be more in your face and consistent. He's doing exactly this. Last game, he'd just talk shit, but wouldn't follow through with it. This game, he's adapted. 2. "Always take the chance, as scum, to attack the townie doing something so dumb that you can't understand it." I don't know how this suggestion could be more literal than kick, literally, calling Axle dumb and voting him. Were you LOLing when you made that vote kick, thinking no one would fucking get it? "Ok ok, Rad, enough of the meta shit, is that all you got?" Of course not. Wtf. Take the easy prey, and stick to it I tend to jump on "shit ideas" quickly. This is how I play. You can read my last 2 games (NMMXXIX and NMMXXX) and see that's what I do. I did it vs scum debears in the first game, and vs town debears in the second game, and many more times throughout those games. I did it here too, to kick's shit idea, and proceeded to question him about it. On December 04 2012 11:11 Rad wrote: You're down for lynching strictly based on his play from last game (where he was town) rather than scum hunting and lynching your biggest scum read? What exactly do you expect to get from this? On December 04 2012 11:12 Kickstart wrote: @ Rad That my friend is what we call a joke, hence that post directly under it that says "jkjk" Yeah, I missed the jkjk. TT. I apologized and moved on. As soon as kick notices the weakness though (which is after he posts the above), he realizes he has an opportunity to pounce: On December 04 2012 11:18 Kickstart wrote: @Rad So if I was actually serious about what I had said what would you have done? Fine, confusing question, but I respond: On December 04 2012 11:21 Rad wrote: I'd have awaited your answer and asked you more questions or dropped it depending on if I thought I had a scum read on it? Seems pretty straight forward to me. Now CC jumps in with a good, smart question: On December 04 2012 11:29 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: What did Kick's "shit idea" tell you in terms of alignment? If Kick truly believed he wanted to lynch Oats for behavior last game, is that scum motivated? I reply to CC, and kick jumps in: On December 04 2012 11:32 Kickstart wrote: What cheese just asked is what I was getting at Rad, I was being a bit more subtle but you just kind of brushed it away after I questioned you about it. I wanted to see if what I had said would have made you try and push me as a scum read. OK kick, sure buddy, you saw that cheese had a smarter question than you and decided to attempt to sheep it, all the while pushing suspicion on me (I "brushed it away"? wtf no I answered your question) and suggesting it was a **SCUM TRAP!!!*** And where does this go? Kick literally throws out a "HUGE post" about yamato and me, with the only point being about my mistaken questioning of his joke (which he, again, takes the opportunity to point out that "oh bummer I should have caught him in my scumtrap because he's obviously scum".) On December 04 2012 15:59 Kickstart wrote: /snip Unfortunately I immediately revealed that I was joking and then the whole thing was dropped, otherwise I could have maybe pressed it a bit and gotten more of a reaction from him, but again I view his initial reaction as slightly scummy. He then proceeds to whine about no one reading his post, and how everyone's stupid because of it (read after his "HUGE post" about me and yamato), attempting to give himself more town credit (also note that I responded to his post before he started whining, and he did not persue me further - satisfied with my answer or scum too lazy to push the issue?). To summarize: 1. Has fooled many by acting like a more vocal "can't possibly be scum" asshole rather than a "pick your targets carefully" asshole. 2. Clearly sheep's CC's reasoning and attempts to push suspicion onto me after the fact, as if it were his plan all along. 3. Tried to increase the importance of his "HUGE post" by calling people out for "not reading it" and basically saying "acknowledge me or I will ignore you." 4. Failed the ultimate test of voting for the correct (townie) reason: town does not vote for "dumb" as he put it, town votes for scum. Then plays it off as "scum trap" when I call him out on it and OMGUS votes me. I am now exhausted and going to bed. I will read and respond to replies to this when I get a chance tomorrow, but again, I'll be working and only have limited availability until I'm done (should be around the same time as today, but will try to push for getting done earlier since lynch is tomorrow). | ||
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On December 06 2012 04:38 Kickstart wrote: Also @Rad You voted on me for putting a vote on Axle but what have you neglected to mention anything about Yamato's vote on him? Too focused on your wagon to notice? @kick Notice how different the intentions are: "Because dumb" vs "scum, or not playing to win". Yamato is suggesting a policy lynch. You're suggesting an easy target. I'm surprised you didn't also point out Sylencia's' statement: On December 05 2012 19:03 Sylencia wrote: /snip Basically, if I had no better read, I'd be picking Axle simply because I don't want to have to deal with working with an incomprehensible teammate. /snip Also suggesting a policy lynch. You didn't notice this one though did you, because you don't actually care what Sylencia has to say about anything. Not following the thread as closely as you'd want us to believe, are you? Or were you just satisfied with his vote on Oats that you didn't want him to question himself? | ||
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Can you explain why you voted him, with explanation "Because dumb"? It wasn't a pressure move - he had been talking like that the entire game, and in the last NMM QT. That's how he talks. What do you want him to do about it? So if not a pressure move, and not a serious vote, then what? For funzies? To stir shit up? I don't get it. | ||
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Why are you so convinced in kick being town? Like, you got a town read from him really early on and have stuck with it. Care to share some insight? | ||
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That's how he talks. Check last NMM's QT. I didn't understand wtf he was talking about from the start there and had to get him to clarify himself. I had to read his 1 sentence per line post over and over to figure it out. What you're saying is you don't give a shit if he's town or scum, and that you will lynch him regardless. I get the idea of a policy lynch on him, but 2 things. 1. you're going to have to policy lynch him every game you play in with him, because that's just how he talks. Perhaps you could just attempt to understand instead. 2. he's so damn obviously newbie townie (or amazing scum, no way though) that you're better off ignoring him rather than lynching him. What's your honest read on Axle, kick? Town or scum? | ||
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named VT claim eh? interesting, what to do now guys? jidolboy, sylencia, you guys out there in lurker land? Want to say hi? | ||
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Very well kick, I can't see how you'd have possibly bus'd oats the entire game. I can assure you that I'm town though | ||
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However, please keep in mind that you could be confirmation biased against me. I was worried if I was confirmation biased against you, but you were still scummy as fuck, so I stuck with my vote. With that said, I would suggest you spend the next 72 hours scum hunting someone else, rather than tunneling me to death. Go ahead, vote me end of d2, but expect a town flip. I don't want to see town lose because you convinced everyone that they got the game won and no one did shit for 3 days. | ||
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You pissed me off with the joke thing (didn't just let it slide, asked question, I answered it fine, then you seemed to sheep CC's better question, keeping suspicion on me even after I had answered BOTH of your questions sufficiently). I've considered you scum since that moment. Pretty sure this was before anyone else was thinking it, or at least before anyone else had mentioned it. So no, I didn't jump on a bandwagon, I jumped on my biggest scum read when he did something that I thought was unforgivably scummy. Anyway, sorry, had muh blinders up ^^ Coincidentally, I had them up for oats too, because my reads are shit, and he was seeming really useful to town (IMO). | ||
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Your previous vote was on Kick. Do you consider him confirmed town after the oats flip? When can we expect you to reveal your master plan? | ||
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I have a feeling that throughout the rest of your mafia career (if you could call it that), you'll never push reads, you'll never get into arguments, never be "caught in a scum slip," and probably never be thoroughly understood (except here and there, occasionally). Reading your posts makes me think like you, and then post like you, but without placing each thought on a separate line. Maybe a few per line instead. I would recommend, for now, that you don't place blame on yourself for being so confusing to most of us, but rather, keep your mind open and find the scum. That's all you have to do as town. Find scum, vote for them, maybe even try to convince people that they're scum and you're not. Yes, by not voting for oats, you've placed yourself into a questionable area. You might now look like scum and confuse the rest of town. No need to worry about it. Just find the scum. | ||
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Please take note though that yamato and I are most suspicious right now because we've put ourselves out there for town scrutiny. Had either of us lurked and throw out our opinions sparingly and jumped on the oats train, we'd be in the same position as the other lurkers. Both of us, instead, interacted, made our thoughts known, and stuck to them. Take that however you will, but I'm getting an angry townie feel from yamato, the same one as your last game. He's given that same exact vibe for most of this game. I think it's especially interesting that he's not convinced in town CC. Talk about picking the hardest target to throw suspicion on... | ||
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Oat's play seems fucking crazy. I thought that was just his personality (got that vibe from beginning of chrono before he was considered confirmed town, at which point he calmed the fuck down, and from last NMM game - at beginning of one of those QTs I straight up said he pisses me off and called him scum, even though he turned out to not be). I don't see why he couldn't come up with some crazy ass idea of an early bus into a LOL victory. Now, a kicks or CC early bus, that just sounds fucking stupid, you were both pushing him well before his lynch seemed likely, but jidol, sylencia, and arn came in late enough, especially with me, yamato, and axle not looking like we were going to jump on the oats wagon anytime soon. You and kick don't get the oats lynch without the lurkers. And how much town cred did it get them? Enough for 2, possibly 3 mislynches? | ||
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I was leaning town on sylencia before your post on him (thoughtful long posts, good answers, I personally don't mind lists and was happy he was at least getting his opinion out there when requested). I remember thinking your points on him were good but not damning at the time, though I thought the same about your points about oats, so I'll reconsider them. Arn's actions are easiest to call wishy-washy I think, but out of the 3, he's most active, so at least he's put himself out there to be called wishy-washy. jidolboy just hasn't posted enough to know wtf his alignment is. | ||
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 GG CC | ||
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Care to elaborate on that? | ||
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Actually your green question is pretty interesting. It seems like after you get some play time under your belt, you start to think towards the future. Do you play to win this game, or play to win future games? For me, personally, I would rather focus on the now, because I don't know if I'll play other games in the future, and if I do, I don't know when I'll play them. | ||
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From last NMM obs: glhf Its hammer time. If this post is not what I ought put here, I am good with editing it away. If OakMaster turns up would someone kindly direct him to this question, that might be best thrashed out here not in Day 1 of XXXII noob game (As that might terrify the natives) Oakmaster I have never played game of mafia in my life..... So you might tend to discount what I say. However if an utter wet noob can say this too you and be right... perhaps there is a real problem. Try getting some of obs to laugh at how silly these points are? I might very well play in the next noob game depending when it starts. I do however want it to be a fun experience for both of us. I had however been tossing up the idea just not playing until you stop playing in the noobs. I have been having trouble working out what I am going to do so that if you and I play in a game I don't get mislynched D2. As a noob seeking to learn. I have been told what I should do when trying to do reads is not get tied up in logic but look for the motivations of the player. Thus I have a question I want to know what OakMasters actual motivation was during D2. A wagon was running on him, it acquired influential players. During that time when there was real possibility he might have to claim... Did he wonder what will be best for town or was his one priority, "get the lynch off me anywhere doesn't have to be the best place, just so long as it is anywhere?" How did you let it go to one of the towns previously Most town reads? Were you overly suspicious of him? What had Oakmaster been doing with his time, who did he want to lynch the most? Or did he simply not care. After that day how many people were actually saved by the blueness of his role? If he had been in fact been as derp as he had been playing... wasn't it actually the worst play. Did he bring any evidence he was not derp? To scummy to be scum, to derp to be a doctor to be worth even saving was my read. You didn't even come with any evidence you could play better than you had. What would have happened if you looked for your meta case of kickstart the first day and dropped that on top of Aquas post. Obs would have cheered, so would I youd have been a legend, you might still be. What had you done except wait for your time in the sun? I know it is not my place, but I nominate OakMaster : Serial killer MVP. Yeah I do know the available roles: my nomination stands. BTW: This is how you execute someone. Might it hurt his feelings? glhf. What is your intention with your play this game axle. You criticize oats for his play in last NMM, but what would you say of yourself in this game? Who was worse, blue oats trying to save himself last game, or you literally contributing nothing to this game but confusion. You have the potential to take down town all on your own if we mislynch a couple times. What win scenario would that fit for you? ##Vote: AxleGreaser | ||
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Like I've said before, this is when I work. Sorry I can't jump on and discuss this with you all day. Keep in mind we have over 24h to discuss this stuff, so if you want to leave me questions I will be more than happy to answer them when I get a chance to. It would be great if you could leave them in an easier to answer manner rather than scrambled throughout all your posts. | ||
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COINCIDENCE? Now, if he wants to throw out some questions that make sense and I don't have to read 30 times before understanding them, I'm happy to answer. I'm not going to sit here and play some stupid ass game with him though (unless you do it first! :D). | ||
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Well I'm about to jump in another game of HotS. Then I'll probably check back, and play more hots, and then check back, and probably some more hots. So you have about 20 seconds to get your first question out. | ||
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On December 08 2012 13:16 AxleGreaser wrote: Kick and Rad your now extended absence is making think the other way about you? where are you? Are you saying that my extended absence has made you think about my as town? Because you've had your vote sitting on me all day. | ||
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On December 08 2012 13:32 AxleGreaser wrote: BTW thanks for going first with your restatement of the claim. I will go first.......... I have more than 2 hours How long do you have. I say Rads post is saying that I am being voted for just for being unreadable. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17160556 I have evidence. Did you think that. too? A cheap answer is: Yeah, I suppose, but what is it. A more expensive answer is: Yes. I see Rads post as saying that is 100% of the reason for doing it. Do You? A cheap answer is: Yeah, I suppose, but what is it. A more expensive answer is: Yes. lol axle, why can't you just ask the question properly? Ask the question, and let it be done with, keeping everything else going through your mind in your own head. I'll then answer the question, as precisely as I can, so others can read my response. Why does it have to be a big production with every post? On December 08 2012 01:03 Rad wrote: Axle, imagine yourself and 2 others left in this game. One of you is scum. How the fuck is town supposed to decide if you're scum or not in that scenario? You're literally forcing yourself to be a policy lynch due to being 100% unreadable. I can't even consider you newbie town anymore because you're just spamming up the thread with no direction. You ask a question, get a couple answers, and do NOTHING with it. You vote yourself, unvote, vote, unvote, talk to yourself, wtf? If you get lynched and flip scum I will /facepalm. If you get lynched and flip town, I will have to consider not playing with you anymore. From last NMM obs: What is your intention with your play this game axle. You criticize oats for his play in last NMM, but what would you say of yourself in this game? Who was worse, blue oats trying to save himself last game, or you literally contributing nothing to this game but confusion. You have the potential to take down town all on your own if we mislynch a couple times. What win scenario would that fit for you? ##Vote: AxleGreaser That's my vote on you and my reasons. On December 08 2012 13:27 Rad wrote: lol yamato I explained my vote in my vote post. It's a policy lynch based on the fact that he gets more and more dangerous for town as time goes on (completely unreadable one way or the other). I did not feel he deserved a policy lynch on d1 because every few posts he would make sense for a moment and during those times his intentions seemed legit town. Today he came up and spit out a bunch of complete nonsense, doing nonsensical things like voting himself and, as far as I could tell, talking to himself over multiple posts. Notice after he got 2 votes on him, he started focusing his efforts properly. COINCIDENCE? Now, if he wants to throw out some questions that make sense and I don't have to read 30 times before understanding them, I'm happy to answer. I'm not going to sit here and play some stupid ass game with him though (unless you do it first! :D). here is me reiterating my reasons. Certainly my posts are not confusing to you. If ANYONE ELSE is confused by them, I will happily reexplain myself a second time. | ||
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On December 08 2012 13:36 AxleGreaser wrote: What I want to know from rad is do you have any scum reads right now? Whoooa, straight forward question. You DO have it in you! I'm suspicious of jidolboy and arn. I do not have a strong read on them because they have done the most lurking. If I were to vote someone besides you, it would likely be one of them. Do you have any scum reads right now? Besides me of course which totally isn't an OMGUS vote. | ||
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On December 08 2012 13:53 AxleGreaser wrote: Rad why is it taking so long to remember why you were suspicious? lol hooollyyy shit it's like you think we're talking on the phone, you asked a question, and I'm just sitting here in silence. Are you being serious here?? I can't fathom... you've gotta be trolling the shit out of me right now. | ||
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Park your vote on me for the rest of the day, that's fine with me. I love it, it makes me feel warm inside. If I decide to vote jidolboy or arn, I will back my vote up with sufficient reasoning. I don't know why you're treating this game like a chat room but I'm done with that. Going to go play hots and watch proleague. Of course, if anyone else who has reasonable expectations for the time it takes to answer their questions has any questions for me, please leave them (I expect that would be everyone but Axle). I'll be back to check them, and answer them, in due time, like one would expect from a forum. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On December 08 2012 14:59 Kickstart wrote: Throughout the game Rad has been going after targets that seem easy, he has jumped onto whatever wagon has some traction Wrong. What bandwagons have I jumped on? I had a scum read on you from the beginning (see my case on you). Other than you, I just voted axle, those are my 2 votes so far. You think your one vote on axle is a bandwagon? LOL. I woke up, read his garbage as I was eating breakfast, and responded with my vote. I did not give 2 shits that you had a vote on him (shit look at your vote of "whatever" - great reasoning kick). + Show Spoiler + On December 08 2012 14:59 Kickstart wrote: he is playing scummy all around. "Guys he's totally scummy, like all around." (that was your voice in my head) + Show Spoiler + On December 08 2012 14:59 Kickstart wrote: Rad is SCUM His only scum read this game has been on me, and at this point, without sounding too pretentious, I am the closest thing this game has to confirmed town. After the flip of Oats as scum I have been waiting to see more from Rad and decided that to commit to a read on him I wanted more; thankfully, he gave me more to go on. My bad I confirmation biased you all of d1. Your bad that you're confirmation biasing me the entire game. Who has given us shit to go on n1 and d2 (no one except yamato and sylencia IMO, and axle shitting up the thread with confusion)? You're welcome for contributing to the thread and "giving you more to go on" unlike some others. + Show Spoiler + On December 08 2012 14:59 Kickstart wrote: His Flip-Flop on Axle Rad has done a complete turn around on his views on Axle. Day 1 he was pushing a lynch on me and defended Axles posting, and used my vote on Axle as a point in his case on me. Here Axle responds to my vote by asking me am I looking for scum or dumb, note that he indicts me for not voting based on Axle being scummy to me because he later puts his vote on Axle without a scum read on him. Axle looked like what I thought was clearly newbie town on d1 with his insecurity. I knew he was an odd poster based on his posts in QT (which I got in an argument with him about, before this game). Your axle vote on d1 looked like bullshit because your reasoning was "because dumb." Again, look at my case on you. I noted the difference between "because dumb" and both yamato's and sylencia's policy lynch reasoning. These are completely different frames of mind IMO. I have also explained my turn around on axle in my vote post for him. Please read it again and question me on it if you're not satisfied, but I'm kinda pissed that you've just ignored that and are making it a point against me. + Show Spoiler + On December 08 2012 14:59 Kickstart wrote: Rad fairly questions my vote, but he goes on to defend Axle's posting. Rad just voted on Axle after the level of discontent for Axle reached a peak, even after hard defending his awkward posting style before. In other words, Rad's vote on Axle is blatant opportunism - he doesn't think Axle is scum and, apparently, he knows from looking at Axle's posting history that this is just how Axle posts. I specifically say that I can't consider him newbie town anymore because of how he was posting at that time. For all I know, I've made another terrible read and this guy is pushing his "i'm too random to be scum" agenda further. Also, what's this shit about "apparently he knows from looking at axle's posting history that this is just how axle posts"?? Go look at that last NMM QT. I WAS THERE TALKING TO HIM. I went into this game not knowing wtf to expect from him because his shit was so confusing in the QT. + Show Spoiler + You clearly haven't actually read all axle's posts. I actually have. In d1 he looks confused newbie town. I try to push him to stop that shit and contribute something useful. See my last game (where I was TOWN) and did the same damn thing to obzy. I just wanted to nudge him in the right direction, and talking shit to him isn't the way to go (see where I was TOWN and called debears out for being scum - even though he ended up being town also - because he was being a dick to obzy, because I considered his posts anti-town). Axle day 2 started going fucking nuts, voting himself and spamming. Not confused newbie town anymore, or is it? I don't know anymore. I just know that if he's left in the last 3, it'll be a coin flip on who wins. First you'll mislynch me, then you'll mislynch (IMO) yamato, then it'll be axle the self-voting nonsense spammer and 2 other people. Look at his voting history - he OMGUS votes you d1 (before he switched back to no lynch?!?), then OMGUS votes me (would you put money on what he'll do next?). + Show Spoiler + On December 08 2012 14:59 Kickstart wrote: Reading through Rad's post where he puts his vote on Axle gives us no new information that can justify the sudden switch. Rad just reiterates the frustrations of everyone else that Axle's posts are hard to understand, even after hard defending Axles posting a short time ago. It absolutely gives you new information. I made a decision and gave my reasoning for it. I could have sat back like other people and done nothing. What does my vote on axle do for me if I'm scum other than bring attention to me? It caused axle to be angry with me and makes you wonder why I'm "sheeping" you. Unfortunately you read the new information poorly. + Show Spoiler + So, you're saying I "don't cast suspicion on axle" and that's a scummy thing to do?? I'm doing 2 things with my vote on him. I'm letting him know of my frustration in his posts - because in d1, he appeared to be moving in the right direction for town, but in d2 he started going bonkers. Secondly, I'm telling him to shape up, because I now am not sure how the hell to read him, but during d1 I thought he was heading in the right direction at times. He's 100% unreadable with his new direction. I pointed out why that's bad for town and why that makes him a reasonable vote. I also point out that he's being a hypocrite based on his REAL self (QT self being necessarily real, mafia game self being unknown) and want him to realize that if he's town, he needs to step back and judge his own contributions to this game, as he so easily did with oats from last game. His response to my vote is OMGUS and tunneling. The other 2 people are based on "who are my weakest town reads." Considering I have a town read on sylencia and yamato, and I'm forced to have a town read on you due to d1 vote outcome (or you're just a crafty scum mfer, but going with occam's razor), the last 2 are jidolboy and arn. They have contributed extremely little to this game and their decisions have been extremely suspicious (no ongoing reasoninng discussion from jidol, arn being super wishy washy as well as the last vote to push oats over the edge). + Show Spoiler + This is really becoming bullshit, kick. I explained my reasoning for voting axle IN THE VOTE POST. Why are you pointing out this idea that "i never explained myself" over and over and over? If you have issues with my reasoning, confront me and ask me to explain. Don't build an entire case around it as if it's multiple points when it's just 1 completely wrong point over and over. + Show Spoiler + On December 08 2012 14:59 Kickstart wrote: The Scum Wagon on Me Rad's Day-1 play is no better than what I outlined above. His actions Day 1, while even more suspect due to the fact that we know that Oats was scum and was leading a push on me, are scummy without an association to Oats. Rad seems to want to jump onto someone early Day 1, much like he has jumped on Axle currently. The first instance of this is Rad questioning me about a joke post. I have hashed this out with Rad and it is a pretty tired topic but it shows how Rad is thinking, it shows that he is looking for someone to latch onto. Yeah kick, we were just like "LOL let's get kick and when he flips town we'll just get busted, but who cares!!" Seriously how do you see this play out in your head? I didn't look into oats much on d1 because he was fitting my idea of how his town meta was. I've watched him in chrono and the last NMM and to me his play was identical. I went into NMM QT and specifically said his play pissed me off, but that it was probably me reading scum wrong. Maybe that had something to do with it. If he was quieter and less controversial, maybe I would have had a different read on him. Instead, he pushed conversation and had a large filter. I learned specifically in the last couple newbies I played that the one with the biggest filter isn't usually scum. Everything just fit for town oats to me. + Show Spoiler + [QUOTE]On December 08 2012 14:59 Kickstart wrote: Conclusion After Day 1's events I decided to wait and give Rad a fair chance. Since the association was so strong between him and Oats I wanted to see if he would show any signs of pro-town play, what we got is clearly reactionary and opportunistic play, scum play. ##unvote ##Vote:Rad It's how I play as town. Get ready to vote for me in every game you play with me ^^ | ||
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Did you know what you were getting yourself into when you signed up? I wouldn't even consider playing mafia during a time like "exam and essay crunch time." What are your thoughts on jidolboy? He's slightly more lurker than you. Are you able to get any sort of read on him, one way or the other? Of the main topics going on right now - myself as possible scum, scum hiding as a lurker, axle as destructive to town, which do you think is most important looking into right now considering we have about ~7.5 hours before lynch? Or do you think our focus should be on something else? Did you get a chance to look through the thread? Did you come up with any observations you could share with us? Who's your top scum read? | ||
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I see you do not consider kick confirmed town. Do you think a scenario exists where kick busses oats that early in the game? Do you think that would have been a smart scum play considering how the game was playing out at the time of his vote on oats? | ||
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On December 08 2012 17:21 jidolboy wrote: I was always suspicious of Rad (his and it seems the majority has the same feeling so I will vote against him as well unless someone tells me to do otherwise ##Vote:Rad Also, I apologize for lacking in something original . I can't seem up to come up anything conclusive or hard evidence when I read through their filter. And when I think I did, someone else had already said it long time ago :l I'm too gullible and overlook things too quickly @Sylencia If you think me piggybacking CC is suspicious, then do you think it would have been less scummy if I piggybacked Oats because majority did so at the time I voted? Again, I didn't have anything valuable to bring up because other people did Take a glance through your filter. You've never once mentioned me in terms of a scum read. Why did you hide this suspicion the entire game (since you've ALWAYS been suspicious of me)? Back when you wanted me to PM you for your scum read, what were you going to tell me? Certainly you wouldn't have said "HAHA! YOU are my biggest scum read, scum!!" If you piggybacked oats back then, don't ya think that might be a little bit too obvious? O.o So if everyone was voting yamato right now, would my name be replaced with his, since you seem to vote based on other people's votes? Which person in this game has the most power over your vote right now, since you're open to be told what to do? On December 08 2012 17:42 jidolboy wrote: @Sylencia I see what your'e saying, but it was a gut feeling that kept lasted even though he provided reason why he did it. Like I'm still suspicious of him defending Oats but he told us proofs that seemed ok. I thought to myself that repeating an and using that kind of evidence is no good when trying to convince people. You may call me a sheep but if someone more open-minded opinion on a person on my radar then I agree with him, and it seems everyone I agreed to had better knowledge than me Just my playstyle I suppose. If you guys think I am a scum, then I don't mind getting lynched, but on D3 please. I want at least see how D2 goes My "proofs seemed ok", so why exactly are you voting me again? Just because other people are? Do you care who gets lynched? On December 08 2012 17:56 jidolboy wrote: Well, I've never asked for a lynch (Although I kinda feel useless to the town ATM)I'm just trying to say that I've got to learn from my mistake and become a better player next time I play On December 08 2012 17:59 jidolboy wrote: :o I'll try Have you tried anything yet? If not, when do you think you'll get a chance to try? By d3 when we've mislynched and you're ready to step it up? What mistakes do you feel you've made? Can they be rectified in this game or must they wait until later? | ||
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Ya. If I PMed you a scum read then I would have included everyone So you'd have listed your reads on everyone? Why would you have told me (who you thought was scum) and not everyone else? If you're oats's scum partner, it would make your association too obvious if you were to piggy back him. Sooo, that's a yes? I was asking you to confirm or deny my statement, not copy/paste what you've already said. I'm trying to get you to clarify yourself. (your statements are coming across confusing, for example, the one you quoted is hard to understand) And of course I care who gets lynched. If I didn't, then I would have voted for Axlegrease when 2 people had already voted for him in D2 As scum, you'd still need to make a smart play. Who has a better chance of being lynched today, me or Axle? (hint: it's me) I think it's somewhat late to step it up during Day D2 since it seems votes are fixed on to you. You're one of those votes. Any reason you're happy not being a big deal in my lynch? You just want to sheep on the more vocal people so they take the fall after my mislynch, all the while giving no reasoning other than "yeah, he's totally scummy, I've thought that the entire game"? On December 09 2012 04:13 jidolboy wrote: Also Care to explain why you think Sylencia is more of a town other than the reason "He provided list of reasons"? It seems you are targeting us easy lurkers to get lynched instead of active players for some reason Sylencia has been putting himself out there, making clear reads, has a transparent opinion on the situation, didn't immediately jump on the easy target (I'm the easy target jidolboy, not you), appears to be thinking about things from a town perspective. These are all things that do not relate to my read on you. On December 09 2012 04:20 jidolboy wrote: I am still waiting for sufficient reasoning. I think it will be good idea to post your evidence before you get lynched. So the town will have greater idea who the scum is if we mislynched you You're "still waiting for sufficient reasoning" - you say it like you've said it before, and you're getting impatient, as though I've avoided your question. Have I voted for you? | ||
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If you're town, this is what you should have been doing all game. Keep it up so town can get a read on you one way or the other. The reason you're under suspicion, to me at least, is that you've given us no content to judge you on. Activity is good for town, lurking is good for scum. Your votes are pure sheeping (admittedly), so how are we to know that you're town sheeping over scum sheeping? If you're on me when I flip town, how are people supposed to judge your decision to lynch me if your only vocal reasoning was based on sheeping? If town, you might become the next easy lynch for scum to push (or town to push, scum might not even have to do anything). When did I say I was going to give it ONLY to you? I was willing to share it to everyone who was interested. Plus the reason I did not post it was because they were what others had said thus it can cause confusion in the thread Lists can be considered scummy. I don't personally think so (see my lists in previous games), but we saw someone like CC does. I think it really depends on the content of the list, and it tends to be a natural sort of thing for a newbie to want to do. At the very least, at least you would have been getting your content out there for others to judge. So if you think your scum partner is in trouble, do you think voting against him will be a better option? Doesn't make sense to me. It's called a bus. You throw your scum partner under the bus (i.e. be one of the people who get him lynched) to gain town cred. There's a few people that fit the potential for this to be true, you're one of them. Notice as soon as the lynch happened, only 3 people were under suspicion - myself, yamato, and axle, because we did not vote to lynch him. See how easy it would be for a scum to lurk the game away with the town cred gained from lynching his partner? Oh sorry. Yes. I'm a sheep when it comes to voting. BUT, that's only when it's person I have suspicion on. For example, before voting, I had already mentioned I wasn't sure about Oats then later voted against him by piggy backing CC Again, something else we don't have proof on because you never mentioned me before your vote. Lurking bad for town, because now town can't decide if you're scum sheeping or town sheeping. That's basically saying, oh he's been a suspicious since D1 so we should lynch him. Talk it out with Sylencia, not me. That will give us more content from both of you. See how it works? As far as I know, Axle and Kick had questioned you about my suspicion but you did not answer them so I questioned you again. I only asked you again because I truly care about this town and wanted you to share your opinion about me before you get lynched. Axle asked me a bunch of questions and then went nutso on me before I had a chance to answer them. I've already noted that I was done with him due to that. I don't remember kick asking about you specifically but if I've missed a question he wanted answered, I'd expect him to bring it back up again. | ||
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Guys, this is a good thing. I would have flipped town tonight, and you would not have known where to go with that because kick pushed me so hard (and I'm pretty sure kick is town). Instead, a town is saved, and we have more time to discuss. I do not feel like today was wasted, as kick suggested would be the case with a no lynch. Instead, what happened? 1. jidolboy has started to to open up and talk. If he's newbie town, maybe he's breaking out of his shell now. He has said that he's made mistakes and intends to fix them, so we get to see where he goes with that. 2. Arn has made a statement that his real life is preventing him from posting more. Well, we've gained more time for him to post while keeping the town count high enough that we don't have to hastily make any coin flip decisions when determining his alignment. 3. Axle stopped spamming up the thread and regardless of who his vote started and ended on, he's at least starting to think about things other than voting himself. I thank those of you who did not vote for me. This gives me a unique perspective in that I know I'm town, and I know I would have been an easy lynch due to the oats ordeal, but my lynch didn't go through. I need to think about that and see if I can figure anything out. My first thought is that scum should have been on me no matter what, but I need to see if maybe it would have been smarter to keep off me. I'm heading out for the night but will be back tomorrow to discuss. | ||
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There's either a cop or a named VT left in the game, and claiming either would secure them as confirmed town, allowing us to stop considering them as potential scum. Whether cop should claim at this point or not should be left up to the cop, depending on their checks so far, but named VT should probably go ahead and claim now so we can focus our efforts on the smaller group of people. Do you have any problems with this plan, other than considering it gimmicky? | ||
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Why the sudden change of heart? It's troubling that you would view me as town, suddenly sheep vote me, then when that failed you spread suspicion across 3 other people (who aren't me), make a case on arn and throughout the case you repeatedly mention me as if to set me up for the final mislynch (even though you clearly dropped suspicion on me with this post): On December 09 2012 16:36 yamato77 wrote: So my FoS is on Syl, Arn, and Axle. There exists the distinct possibility that Axle is scum, though proving so is difficult. Syl voted for jidol for basically no reason except that he was lurking. In hindsight, I think the vote looks incredibly stupid because I have a pretty decent town read on jidol at the moment, and despite his low post count haven't had a scum read on him all game. On December 09 2012 16:36 yamato77 wrote: Believe me, you have the wrong idea if you think my play D2 is scummy at all. I sheep the towniest player in the game in a majority lynch on a player who was strongly associated with the scum we lynched day 1 and somehow that is scum play? There are some holes in that logic. Right, so what exactly is it about your d2 play that was so townie? Can scum not sheep the towniest player? Can scum not jump on someone's wagon for a bullshit association case? These seem like things scum would WANT to do if they thought they could get away with it. What exactly did you do on d2 that was so amazingly townie? My mislynch would have pushed suspicion onto kick the most with no one to blame after he was mislynched, and a jidolboy mislynch afterwards would have been easy following that if he wasn't named VT. On December 09 2012 16:36 yamato77 wrote: Regardless, if that is your only reason for not voting him, you should reconsider why it is that he is being cast into the spotlight in the first place, which is his continually questionable play up to this point. After the failed wagon on Kick, he has done basically nothing the whole game. More of the same, FoS 3 other people, but keep that suspicion on me alive. On December 09 2012 16:36 yamato77 wrote: Now if you HONESTLY doubt Rad's guilt Suggesting you don't doubt my guilt, which seems odd considering you didn't FoS me and have just spent all your time making a case on arn. On December 09 2012 16:36 yamato77 wrote: Right now I lay blame at both your feet for the lack of any new information D2 because neither of you seem very involved in this game. I guarantee you will get lynched if you don't change that. So it's syl's and arn's fault, but definitely not axle's fault even though you FoS'd him just before this statement. What new information could you have even gotten from my mislynch? Oh wait, I know. Kick flipped town, jidolboy is now confirmed town, so that leaves only... YOU. ##Vote: yamato77 | ||
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What exactly is this "you are still on my radar" shit anyway? You're either suspicious of me or you're not. You felt the need to FoS 3 people but not me? Your logic isn't following sir. | ||
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You had your vote on me last lynch, but that shit didn't work. You're now FoSing 3 different people, none of which include your last lynch vote, but also subtly keeping the door open to move back to me if the opportunity presents itself. Now your reasoning is that Arn's guilt would imply my innocence, but the same goes for the rest of the people in this game, including the ones you FoS'd. You claim you're slinging shit at them to motivate, but also take the stance that I have basically done nothing the entire game. Why I no get motivations from you </3 ?? | ||
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On December 11 2012 15:03 yamato77 wrote: If you want to be all nitpicky about who I spoke about in my posts, go ahead, but I did not FoS anybody. I don't recall using the term this game at all. I called them out and told them that what they were doing was not pro-town in my eyes and that I was going to look into that. I did, and Arn is by far the most suspicious. What??? On December 09 2012 16:36 yamato77 wrote: So my FoS is on Syl, Arn, and Axle. On December 11 2012 15:03 yamato77 wrote: Right now though you look pretty scummy because your "case" on me is hilariously weak and also opportunistic in the sense that you think you can actually get me lynched because of Axle's vote and the conflict between Arn and I. This fits right in with your opportunistic play D1 and D2 trying to get easy mislynches on players you thought were already under fire. Opportunistic because... axle has a vote on you? Axle places his vote randomly, or because he's angry at someone, or because __fill in the fucking blank__. It happens to be on you right now. I will be extremely surprised if he stays on you until the lynch. Consider me the first real vote on you. Anyway, no need to convince the scum that he's scum, just going to let the others decide. You're falling apart here, scum. On December 11 2012 15:09 yamato77 wrote: Also, I'm going to say this now because this nefarious scheme is probably gonna work but if I get lynched Rad is 100% scummy for how he has his vote placed on me atm. No worries here, when you flip red, I will /dance ^^ | ||
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Rad
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##Unvote ##Vote: Arnarnion Come out of hiding, arn. | ||
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On December 12 2012 10:06 Sylencia wrote: Yep, pretty sure yamato is the last scum we are looking for. Based on your previous thoughts, or did this flip add to it? On December 12 2012 10:09 jidolboy wrote: Well well well At least we found more about this town.... Considering you're the only confirmed town, being less cryptic would be great. | ||
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Rad
United States935 Posts
On December 08 2012 01:03 Rad wrote: Axle, imagine yourself and 2 others left in this game. One of you is scum. How the fuck is town supposed to decide if you're scum or not in that scenario? You're literally forcing yourself to be a policy lynch due to being 100% unreadable. I can't even consider you newbie town anymore because you're just spamming up the thread with no direction. You ask a question, get a couple answers, and do NOTHING with it. You vote yourself, unvote, vote, unvote, talk to yourself, wtf? If you get lynched and flip scum I will /facepalm. If you get lynched and flip town, I will have to consider not playing with you anymore. (note that we could have avoided this if we went with my policy lynch suggestion on d2, which was then turned on me as if it was some scummy play) Sylencia, do you have a solid read on axle? Yamato, lynching *anyone* is good for scum at this point. Why is axle specifically good for me to lynch if I'm scum? How is it not equally as good for you if you're scum? All 3 of us have at some point suggested a policy lynch for axle. I agree that a no lynch could be our best option, but it seems like it has the potential to become WIFOM hell based on who's alive right now. I'm open to discussing it later in the day. | ||
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Rad
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Choosing axle for lynch is a coin flip. Choosing one of us for a lynch is a coin flip that rests on axle's choice. Sylencia, it doesn't matter if yamato is scum without axle's vote, and yamato is currently axle's top town read. After no lynch, it's 2v1 with axle pretty much 100% guaranteed to be in it. If you're NK'd, axle and yamato vote me, or me and yamato vote axle, but probably not me and axle voting yamato. If you're not NK'd, there's some crazy wifom play going on or you're master scum. | ||
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Rad
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He can choose to vote for me here and pretty much guarantee my lynch due to split vote no lynch, Sylencia NK, and my lynch the next day. Only chance for town win at that point is if yamato is not scum and we vote axle. Doesn't make sense for axle to vote me for this lynch and switch to yamato next lynch. Anyway... ##Vote: yamato77 | ||
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http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/nPb8i3HLm4nx/p0.100 (just tack on the p0.100 to the url) instead of clicking through the back button over and over. Or if there's an easier way... ignore me >.> | ||
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Rad
United States935 Posts
On December 15 2012 10:15 Hapahauli wrote: Good job Rad - very very impressive play towards the end of the game. I'm not sure why people are saying he was so obvious in the early game. He played a really solid game throughout. D1 was interesting, because I think scum played decently except for their target selection. Going all-in to lynch Kickstart was just about the worst thing you could've done. He didn't look scummy at all, and he was one of the few townies who would put up a fight to a lynch. Going for any of the other players would have been perfectly fine, but scum took way too much of a risk when they went after the most vocal player and got into an OMGUS war. We were mostly playing solo at first, not really coordinating stuff like that. We pretty much coincidentally attacked the same guy lol. I was just trying to do what I thought I'd do as town so a lot of our association was coincidence. I think one major thing that was telling was my lack of interaction with him directly. I tried to play that off for the rest of the game by not really having much association with sylencia to make it seem like that's just what I do with people I think are townie. | ||
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On December 15 2012 10:18 Kickstart wrote: Well GG Rad, even though me and cheese both had you pinned early on xD. I am quite dismayed that you lived day 2 because Axle randomly switched his vote from you to me (the most town person in the game given day1 events) and by the lurkers just going "too obvious that rad would be scum, he cant be". That being said though, I was in a position to push it harder and should have (people in obsQT pointed out to me later that a meta case tacked onto my huge day2 case on you would have sealed the deal because your play was nothing like your past town games, so I will maybe try to start using meta arguments to add to my already strong cases, because normally I stay away from them). Yeah, you had me =P The d2 no lynch was so relieving since I knew you were going to be dead next. I really believe I'd have attacked your first joke oat's statement as town though, so I dunno, we'd probably have gotten into a fight regardless of my alignment. I need to stop doing that TBH. | ||
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Rad
United States935 Posts
1. Town needs to be more active. I almost lost this game due to a quiet town, but I adapted and won because of it. Out of the gate I wanted to be very talkative, pushing discussion, etc, but because town was so quiet I was easier to read because there were less of us doing the talking. A more experienced scum player, I think, would likely notice the quiet town and try to blend in with it. If I did that at the beginning, I think I a) don't piss off kick, b) don't show as much of an association with oats, and c) just become yet another lurker in a game of lurkers. At that point, I can take my time and really make sure what I'm saying isn't scummy. 2. Policy lynch on lurker is, at least in my opinion, really necessary. You need to let it be known that that shit is not acceptable, and then you can decide later whether or not you want to go through with it if it turns up. D2 lynch, if not me, should have probably been a lurker, because you need to keep things moving. So for those who were unsure of me, consolidating on a lurker lynch would have at least made this game go in a different direction (if you lynch arn d2, you don't lynch him d3, and I'm a much better candidate on that day because I've had to talk more, and am now worried that I might get lynched if I lurk too much). 3. Don't give up! I lose this game after d1 lynch if I gave up when I thought I should. Town lost this game because you gave up (well, mainly because of lurkers, but also this). 4. Question your reads. Confirmation bias goes both ways, you can sit there and think someone is scum the entire game or town the entire game just because you keep reading stuff with that frame of mind. Anyway, probably bad advice in there but just my thoughts ^^ Some personal notes: arn - I really felt bad for you because I knew your lack of time was genuine, so sorry for capitalizing on that <3 I hope you come back to play because your misreads on the situation felt a lot like my own when I'm town, and you'll get better and have more fun the more you do it. sylencia - felt bad for you also because you were confirmation biased the entire game due to me being too scummy to be scum, but don't feel too bad, cause I hard defended scum clarity for the entirety of NMMXXX and was absolutely sure 2/3 of the scum from NMMXXIX were town (dandel and CC) axle - you are going to be one seriously scary player, I can tell. No one had me more worried this game than you and I tried my hardest to discredit you any time I could. Apologies <3 A word of advice though, think to yourself, not to the thread Also, I was right in the NMMXXXI QT wasn't I?yamato and kick - lighten up :D We're going to get into fights as fellow townies one day! kick - glhf with your scum meta in the future because you were soooo different than your last NMM. I wonder if you'd have caught on to me if I didn't attack your joke though, so realize that town can do that stuff too (TBH I do think I'd have jumped on it if I was town) yamato - your red with anger was really clearly town to me, so I'm looking forward to seeing you as scum one day to see the differences :D I think it'll be hard to fake your giving up on the game, which you clearly showed and worried the shit out of me end of the game. I was waiting for people to start second guessing whether you were scum, and I think if you had put in just a bit more effort you could have done that. Check out NMMXXX end of D1 where town CC fucks up and gets lynched, but his frantic begging at the end was so clearly town to me. I really feel like at least putting your emotional self out there for others to read is a good town move to do, granted, I would have done the same back, but at least they would have had a real you vs a fake me to work with. jidolboy - you've clearly got good, smart reads, and I saw you start to break out of your shell near the end. You shouldn't worry much about obsing, but rather, just play more and more because the only thing holding you back is your level of participation. You sheeped correctly, but that doesn't make you look town, and if you hadn't been named VT I think you would have been an easy target for me, regardless of your good reads. CC - too good, you're out of the newbie league, shoo oats - rofl too fun, especially once we got on irc and started working together, I totally love your just throw shit out there attitude and if you refine it you should become much harder to read (so, good and bad depending on your alignment at the time ^^) Alright guys, had fun, GG | ||
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